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Author Topic: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610  (Read 524313 times)

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210502
« Reply #2100 on: June 09, 2021, 07:44:49 pm »
I know you've been busy (I saw the recent 1.11 Reborn release on RHDN), and I'm sure you're busy working on incorporating Reborn and Relocalized...

But I gotta ask you once again.  Could you create a patch which changes the behavior of Mana Beast, specifically preventing it from rising from the bottom?  I took a look at its codes on bank 02, but I couldn't even begin to figure out where it is being controlled.  I'm guessing there's a RNG after the flying tackle (after the fire breath) where Mana Beast either descends or rises.  So either disable the RNG or replace the rising command with the descend command.

Mana Beast (the final boss, who is supposed to be a most badass boss of all the bosses) being such a sitting duck during the slow rise really frustrates me.

SnesFaust

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210502
« Reply #2101 on: June 10, 2021, 11:35:01 am »

Mana Beast (the final boss, who is supposed to be a most badass boss of all the bosses) being such a sitting duck during the slow rise really frustrates me.

On my last Play-through (210502), I found the fight to be miserable(not in a difficult way). I could only hit the boss with charges because the empowered mana sword regular hits would be 0. Most of the time, beasty would cast on me so i couldn't do much damage (if any at all). It was a 30-40 minute fight... not fun. I was pretty low level but don't remember exact numbers.

If the mana beast can only be hit with a charged sword 1+ (and always targeting me it seems) then id recommend an HP adjustment to around 7 or 8 k. It's that difficult to get the hits in.

If I'm missing something and you can drop 999's with regular hits while he's rising, then I think an hp increase respective of 4 or so dps windows would be sufficient.

Newcomers who don't know to cast the correct protective spells will have a great fight on their hands while seasoned veterans should be able to clear it with little trouble.

hmm could up physical damage making Lumina/gnome essential? So if you don't get party members protected, you're done. However, with everyone getting knocked out so much, the fight could enter RNG which isn't fun at all.

what do you think?


kaine23

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2102 on: June 10, 2021, 05:05:36 pm »
So i gave this a quick shot and I like it! Love to do a full review and showcase of this sometime if it goes liv eon RHDN. How come the menu screens dont show up if I play this on retroarch, but on snes9x?

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2103 on: June 10, 2021, 05:08:54 pm »
Version 2021-06-10:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/wl8p6m

Changes:
- updated Reborn to v1.11
- fixed "desciple" spelling mistake in vanilla event (Text\Event_Fixes)
- implemented Bug_Fixes\Snake_Boss_Block_Fix, removes erroneous floating block regions created by the snakes' first and second body segments
- implemented Bug_Fixes\Sprite_Can_Tap_Out, fixes a programming mistake that could cause enemy #2 from preventing a player controlling the sprite from being able to "tap out" (press Start to stop playing)
- changed memory check that determines if a ring menu is in use; lots of code relied on this, so hopefully nothing broke
- modified axe downward swing animation (Combat\Strong_And_Weak_Attacks) second frame to have a normal collision rectangle; it was comically oversized before
- fixed bug in Combat\No_Damage_While_Recovering that made it harder for enemies to hit a player with ranged attacks (it effectively made enemy projectiles zero width)
- added slight boss starting position tweak to Tonpole_Trio_-_Vengeance to get the left tonpole unstuck from the wall



Still continuing my work on analyzing and overhauling the game's collision code. If you snoop around in the ZPS file, you'll see some empty, hidden sections related to a new Collision_System_Extensions feature. Once things are just a little further along and better tested, I'll be including an emulator Lua script (for Mesen-S; it may work or be possible to make work with other emulators) that displays collision rectangles in the readmes\_extras folder.

I want to stress that this game's collision code really isn't that bad; just because people have repeated that it is bad over and over for decades doesn't make it true, but that doesn't mean there's not room for improvement.



I'll respond to posts a little later when I have the time.

kaine23

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2104 on: June 10, 2021, 07:36:40 pm »
I really don't understand how armor equip in this works. so now if more than 1 party member can use the same armor i can only buy one? im stuck now with the girl having no armor cause it won't let me buy armors that the sprite and boy can use.

Thanatos-Zero

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2105 on: June 10, 2021, 10:31:07 pm »
I really don't understand how armor equip in this works. so now if more than 1 party member can use the same armor i can only buy one? im stuck now with the girl having no armor cause it won't let me buy armors that the sprite and boy can use.

This was a optional component of the patch.
If you wish to play without it, patch a new file by disabling the component and give it the same name as the old file, so you can continue using the same save states and save files.
If you use save states, you may need to save normally ingame first and reset for the changes to become active.

Queue

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2106 on: June 11, 2021, 12:59:36 am »
hmsong, look at this screenshot:


You can see 4 rectangles:
1) blue around boy
2) blue around Spikey Tiger
3) yellow at Spikey Tiger's feet
4) white around shuriken, obscured by the enemy

The blue rectangles are melee-vulnerable collision boxes. Yellow is ranged-vulnerable. Projectile attacks currently are white; I haven't picked a color for them yet. As you can see, the white and yellow rectangles aren't intersecting, so the ranged attack doesn't hit despite the projectile visibly flying straight through his body.

Here's a shot of the javelin coming up short:


Unlike Spikey Tiger, Great Viper and Vampire are completely immune to projectiles because they're on a different layer than the heroes.



kaine23, the menus use background mode 5, which some emulators don't emulate correctly. So my guess is whichever retroarch core you had selected was failing. Just a guess though.

Items\Unique_Equipment (On by default) limits you to 1 of any specific piece of equipment. The only time in the game where you could find yourself with no equipment for a slot for a given character is right at the beginning if you completely skip buying variety in the shops you encounter. Otherwise, throughout the game there will always be plenty of equipment to go around, but unlike vanilla, nothing will be useless (i.e. since in vanilla, when a shop sells two different chest armors, you just buy two or three copies of the stronger one, leaving the slightly lower defense item a pointless waste of space, which is boring and dumb).



Regarding the Mana Beast, feel free to keep brainstorming. I haven't gotten to reviewing him yet.

hmsong

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2107 on: June 11, 2021, 04:20:16 am »
That picture helps a lot regarding Spikey Tiger hit box.  Its projectile hit box is so weird.  No wonder I miss so much.

Yeah, I'll keep brainstorming for Mana Beast.  Not that I can change anything, but I can come up with ideas.  Priority is definitely the stopping of ascending action.  Btw, I assume Mana Beast's 4 buff spell slots (Lucid Barrier, Speed Up, Defender, Lunar Boost) can't be used, right?  Not that I want Mana Beast to use the buff spells (they're useless to Mana Beast, as they would waste precious time that Mana Beast can't afford to lose), but changing those spells to something else may make the fight a bit more interesting.  Not that I have any idea what those spells may be.

Memorex

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2108 on: June 11, 2021, 11:14:27 am »
Nice to see you're still able to make further improvements to this project!  :thumbsup:

lexluthermiester

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Re: Secret of Mana, Turbo - Beta 210610
« Reply #2109 on: June 11, 2021, 03:28:53 pm »
I want to stress that this game's collision code really isn't that bad; just because people have repeated that it is bad over and over for decades doesn't make it true
Fully Agree!

but that doesn't mean there's not room for improvement.
Fair enough. It will be interesting to see what changes you make and what effect they will have!  :thumbsup:  :beer: