[DarknessSavior]

I can never believe how so many of you got most of your games used over the years (other than online). Employees were hogging the Dragon Quests, Final Fantasys, and Chrono Triggers even way back when they were Babbages and Electronic Boutique.

Come to think of I don't think I've seen more than a few good offering in those used game bins in my ENTIRE life. They never had what I was looking for. I do have that one good memory of getting my crown jewel Wild Arms 1 for a few bucks.

I guess it's all in the area you live.

Personally, when I worked for Gamestop back in 2006, we had a TON of good PSX games (they'd already gotten rid of NES/SNES by the time I worked there). And that was AFTER the employees (myself included) took their pick of the litter. I personally got Final Fantasy IX, Wild Arms 2, Persona 2 Eternal Punishment, and many other great PSX games for pretty cheap. And we always had a few extra copies of those kinda things on the shelves.

It does really depend on the area. We just kept getting random shipments filled with PSX games, though. 'course, I also grabbed a copy of Suikoden II (no box, no manual, scratched to hell) for $50 (have a Game Doctor, so I fixed it, and it works), and a copy of Paper Mario (cart only) for $5.

~DS

[DankPanties]

Maybe I should give it another go.

Yes.  Yes you should.

Dream Land 3 is huge, has tons of variety, a mountain of secrets, and is just a complete blast to delve through.  It's my second favorite platformer for SNES just shy of Yoshi's Island.  You are truly missing out by dismissing it for any reason whatsoever home skillet.

[Nightcrawler]

The stores around me were typically small, so I image the stock of used games coming in and how many copies of a particular title made a huge difference. If there were enough to satisfy the employees and still be some of the public, there's no issue. That may not have been the case for the ones by me.

Although, I recall a time where one of the employees told me one of their guys was taking ALL copies of particular titles because he could get more for them on his own and turn profit.

Do you guys ever feel bad at all when you get a good deal on a used game and the game is totally awesome, but the developers didn't see a cent from you? Sometimes I'm sympathetic to the developers not getting some extra money off used games, but at the same time they did make the initial sale and they do control the price structure, so they can adjust if they wanted to.

It's a publishers world anyway. The guys who always suffer regardless are the actual programmers, artists, etc.

[DankPanties]

but the developers didn't see a cent from you?

Unless there have been drastic changes in the industry I am unaware of; the developers generally aren't seeing money from retail sales.   The developers were paid up front before-hand by contract negotiations with a publisher.  The publisher gets the money from the sales as restitution.  Sometimes the developers receive further payment via royalties, but that's more the exception than the rule.

It's a publishers world anyway.

Yes, yes it is.  Though with clients like Steam and GOG, and direct distribution and all, this is slowly changing... at least for smaller games.

[BRPXQZME]

Yeah, royalties for games? Not a thing, for the most part.

[DankPanties]

Yeah, royalties for games? Not a thing, for the most part.

Well take "royalties" in this instance to mean "bonuses".  Sometimes there are bonuses based on sales, ratings, release dates being met, etc.

[Nightcrawler]

How do you know that? (Not disagreeing, just asking to be informed) Why is it different from the book or music industry? For example I know that as a book author with a publishing contract, you typically get an advance from your publisher. Sales will pay the publisher back until that amount is exceeded and after that you typically get a royalty for those sales. I believe it works similarly in the music industry.

Is it because games are developed by many people? I know obviously some of those poor programmers or artists slave away for a salary and don't get any piece of the pie.

That's how it works for me in engineering. I design something for my paltry salary, the boss takes it, sells it and collects continued profits. If I'm lucky, the Republican trickle down theory will come into play and I might see a raise, but most of the time he just takes it to pay for his Jaguars and BMWs. If only the things I do and create in my spare time were not worthless (monetarily speaking). I'm the type of guy who seems to pursue more self fulfillment in my spare time than money. Yet, had I pursued money all these years, perhaps I'd have more time available for sell fulfillment! Or... perhaps I'd be broke with no home because a large percentage of start up businesses, consultants, and inventors fail miserably. Life is so difficult.

[BRPXQZME]

How do you know that? (Not disagreeing, just asking to be informed) Why is it different from the book or music industry? For example I know that as a book author with a publishing contract, you typically get an advance from your publisher. Sales will pay the publisher back until that amount is exceeded and after that you typically get a royalty for those sales. I believe it works similarly in the music industry.

Is it because games are developed by many people? I know obviously some of those poor programmers or artists slave away for a salary and don't get any piece of the pie.

I’m not an expert, but as with many things in life, there are a number of factors that may or may not do it. But overall, it’s that way now because the corporate models are very similar industry-wide (no unions, high start-up costs, only a handful of game companies are older than video games so this is not exactly a mature industry with finely crafted executive experience) and inertia is a hell of a drug.

But I found one self-proclaimed expert and a very short explanation of why it stopped happening very often as of late (by which I mean almost a decade ago).

[DankPanties]

How do you know that? (Not disagreeing, just asking to be informed)

From reading stuff like this:

http://www.1up.com/news/forget-games-games-sales-don

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DustinClingman/20120204/9359/Developers_Deserve_Residual_Royalties.php

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/02/why-dont-more-game-developers-see-royalties-from-their-work.ars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#Third-party_developers

http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/thefutureofgamepublishinganddevelopment.html

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/04/opinion_kohler-we-need-no-one/

Etc.

There are exceptions to everything in life, but generally a developer gets paid by a publisher to make the game, and the publisher makes their money back via said game's sales.  Sometimes royalties of sorts are included, but not very often.

Why is it different from the book or music industry?

Because the video game industry's creators (programmers, writers, artists, musicians) aren't taken as seriously as those industries'.  Where is the ASCAP for the gaming industry, eh?  Like holmes above said, this industry is still in its infancy, and it needs specific unions and dedicated lawyers to catch up with the rest.

[Nightcrawler]

Thanks for the links. Well, it's not surprise why the industry has been on the decline and it's also no surprise innovation has declined. I would imagine it's not very motivating to be a game developers for one of the industry standard companies. Another case where it seemed like a dream job as a child, then you become an adult, start working in the field and are severely disappointed.

One of BRPXQZME's articles mentioned publishers are NOT recouping their advances/costs. I knew production costs were high, but I didn't realize it had gotten to that point where they couldn't even recoup the advance. We're headed back to the days of smaller studios one way or another because the current business model is unsustainable now.

[BRPXQZME]

Uh, most projects fail to turn much of a profit and that’s not new by a long stretch. That’s a very traditional model; the publisher sticks its neck out for the >90% of books/games/whatever that seem okay but almost certainly won’t sell for the <10% of the books/games/whatever that will pay for the others and then some. It’s basic risk pooling. It’s safe to say that EA Sports alone has funded many experiments.

The rise of the indie game market is also a complex phenomenon; I would not point to that as a sign of the unsustainability of big-budget studios and such, but as a sign of the flexibility and smaller scale of indies opening up new opportunities for growth. The two cater to somewhat different markets (there is some middle ground), and they really can’t compete with each other in every arena. AAA doesn’t bring you good $1 iPhone games, because they aren’t really good for the “throw it at the wall and see what sticks” mindset (I’m sure some older game companies are funding some sort of “ashcan” concept-mill approach somewhere, but with every 15 year old out there being able to pirate Flash and upload things to Newgrounds, it probably doesn’t get too far). Likewise, indies don’t bring you the next big FPS or MMORPG in a box (Yes, I think all of these things I’m mentioning can be hurrfests to some extent, too, now don’t bring that up I’m just free-associating here :| ).

[KaioShin]

Also keep in mind that the author of a book or the members of a band only live from the income of the sales (+ touring in case of the band). While the developers are employees and get regular paychecks. And some positions must earn quite well, at least often hear Peter Molyneux talk about his Ferrari collection.

[Nightcrawler]

Uh, most projects fail to turn much of a profit and that’s not new by a long stretch. That’s a very traditional model; the publisher sticks its neck out for the >90% of books/games/whatever that seem okay but almost certainly won’t sell for the <10% of the books/games/whatever that will pay for the others and then some. It’s basic risk pooling. It’s safe to say that EA Sports alone has funded many experiments.

I don't have any proof off-hand, but I'm pretty sure most first time book author gets a miniscule advance  (a few thousand, say even as low as <$5000 dollars I think I have seen)  that isn't that much of a risk for the publisher. It varies case to case and publisher to publisher, but I think at least with books, the risk is much lower. That's likely because the COST is also much lower compared to a game and that's the problem. Yeah, certainly it is risk pooling, but I think it's very different between industries.

[Panzer88]

about a month ago I bought Deus Ex: Human Revolution and I'm really happy that I did. I expected it to be a disgrace compared to the original but it's actually really good.

[Garoth Moulinoski]

I finally got Catherine!! Yay. Now, let's see when I'll ever play it.

[vivify93]

I figure it's better to bump this up than make a new topic, since this one hasn't been pruned yet.

I think the last few purchases I made were...

- Tales of Symphonia (GameCube)
- Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (Wii)
Those two were made on recommendation of my friends. I don't own a Wii, but I plan to get one soon. I picked up a GC memory card and controller too.

- Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift (DS)
- Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology (PS1)
I got these for cheap at GameStop when I went to pick up a PlayStation 3.

- Star Ocean: First Departure (PlayStation Portable)
I found this title that is semi-expensive online for cheap at a mall's GameStop when I went to get a new PS3 controller for myself, as the one that came with my used PS3 was somewhat busted. I let my sister keep it though.

- Chrono Trigger (DS)
- Chrono Cross (PlayStation)
Bought these near the end of my first semester of college.

- Phantasy Star Collection (GameBoy Advance)
- Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings (DS)
I needed to get RW because I freaking love FFXII, and Phantasy Star Collection was priced real cheap.

And I just now bought the following PlayStation games - Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, and Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete. They're all rare PS1 games, but they were going for incredibly low prices. Well, EBC wasn't, but I was waiting for a friend's input when the copy going for $30 got snatched up. Eh, you win some, you lose some, you buy it anyway.

[DankPanties]

I don't own a Wii, but I plan to get one soon.

Don't forget about this little ol' thread when you do:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,15488.0.html

In the spirit of this thread, my most recent purchases were:



And ta-da this is my very first 3DS game acquisition.  Got it new off Amazon.  This month I plan to buy a 3DS XL along with a special enhancement that I won't mention until I have one first... along with Fire Emblem Awakening and Zero Escape.



Picked this up for the ol' Xbox because I'm a sucker for racing games that have plots mixed into their career mode.  I already have its predecessor Pro Race Driver, and I plan to pick Toca Race Driver 3 eventually.  The whole series has the story stuff in them that I like.

[SargeSmash]

Ah, cool, you picked it up.  You'll have to let me know how it is when you get that 3DS XL!

My most recent purchase was...  well, retail was Sticker Star.  Folks can read more about my final impressions over in the Victoly! thread, and eventually on Shall We Game?    My most recent digital purchase was Picdun 2, which I picked up last night after polishing off Paper Mario (thanks for the recommend, Gid!).  Not very far, but it's kinda interesting.  And...  wow, a little heavy on the fan service.  Battle system seems interesting, although I'm surprised they didn't go touch-based.  Not that it ends up mattering, but it was my understanding that the first game used them.

Looks like it's going to be pretty substantial for a $5 purchase.  Now, if I don't get distracted by something else...

[DankPanties]

Ah, cool, you picked it up.

Yeah, I had to bleed full price for it.  That sucks, but this is one of those games that I think will only get more expensive as time goes on.

[Talbain]

My most recent game purchase was Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen, though the most recent gaming purchase that I've actually played is Persona 3 Portable.  Want to start Jeanne D'Arc, but unfortunately I need to finish Persona 3 Portable first.  Long game is long.  Also, seriously, why are all the female characters in Persona 3 Portable written so much better that their male equivalents?