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Author Topic: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts  (Read 19435 times)

detox420

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2012, 04:05:39 pm »
95$ for Zelda Parallel worlds. Hah ill repro that cart myself.

JCE3000GT

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 01:58:17 am »
I dig it.  This guy/team is providing a service more than anything.  I don't see it as he's selling ROM hacks but more like selling the cart hardware and box/manual/insert/maps along with the labor involved to create these materials.  If he did this with any of my hacks I'd be happy about it and would probably see if he could sell it to me.  I'd personally like to see just about any ROM hack get repro'd.  That in the end in my opinion actually HELPS the community and even more so collectors like myself that love having actual cartridges complete with all the materials.  If these translators/ROM hackers have a problem with this then THEY need to reproduce their hacks on carts and sell it themselves as far as I'm concerned. 

Besides, pretty much hacking anything is illegal--so who the F cares if someone sells it as it still is illegal.  Plus, $95 for an SNES cart is very reasonable considering the last batch of SNES RPGs in 1994-1995 cost $89,99 + sales tax.  I remember buying my FF3, CT and whatnot for $96.51 locally tax included.  (ironically I sold my CT on eBay complete for $100)

P.S.   I'm seeing these being sold on eBay more and more now.  Saw his NES FF2 english cart sell for around $55 (?) by someone.

P.P.S.  That Star Fox Competition Weekend box/manual/poster/insert looks pretty damn good.  In fact all of these boxes look pretty close to original retail. 

Bregalad

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 02:55:20 am »
Those people should be burnt. Seriously, they make profit on other people who worked for free. They should go to hell !

Their shit looking like the original retail is even more a worry for me. This is called a counterfeit and it's NOT a good thing.

Nightcrawler

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 09:35:29 am »
Yes, only an ass would take someone's free work and try and profit from it. Humanity fails because there are always people like that.
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Lugia2009

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 12:02:39 pm »
I do agree that charging $50 and more is ridiculous. (Of course, I wouldn't mind spending the money on certain games. I would love to have Starfox 2, Sweet Home, or Final Fantasy 2, 3, or 7)

I think it's okay as long as they are only profiting around $10-$15 per game. They do make the labels, boxes, manuals. Also the materials needed to make them, and the work they put into the repro cart. So they should profit a little. But yeah, I would be pretty pissed if someone was making thousands of dollars off of a game I worked on, and intended to be free for everyone.

It's also kind of convenient that someone can come along and make a repro cart for you. Not everyone knows how to make reproduction carts, or even has the time or the patience to learn. I would like to learn how to do it myself, but I don't think I would have the time to learn.

But the person making these repros should definitely give credit to the hackers and ask their permission if they know how get in contact with the hacker.
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Euclid

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 06:27:14 pm »
Well i have mixed feelings with this. I do feel sorry for whoever wants to play it on the parallel worlds real cart without save states though.

Not that offended by what the price is asking for considering all those extra stuff they have to print out (manuals and maps and etc), although it would be nice if he asked at least one of us.

Would also have been nice if they linked to the website or at least explain the game is a hacked/not official version.

Prettty sure the title screen wouldn't come up properly in the real cart though as someone pointed that out to me in bsnes... =P.

Madsiur

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2012, 09:32:44 pm »
I have nothing against this as long as they have the author's permission and give a part of the profits to the ROM hacker(s) who did the hack/translation. There should be some sort of agreement between the parties involved, but a contract would have no legal value I guess.

I really like the concept of custom maps, posters and instruction booklets. Yeah sure I could probably put my work or any other hack/translation on a cart, but these guys offer a high quality product, as far as the hack or translation is a quality one.

Zeemis

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2012, 04:08:24 am »
This will piss off some people in this forum  :angel:

Where are all those copyright protecting agencies (RIAA or what ever they are called) when you need them?

Anyway I don't believe he will do much of a business with those prices.

Get over yourself, this shits awesome. :)

KingMike

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2012, 10:21:44 pm »
Another report this guy question?
He's probably using the ROM identified by GoodSNES as [ T-Eng ][ a6 ], by an unknown party. Looks like it's just the FF2 script poorly reinserted into FF4 (don't need to play further than the intro before you start seeing broken linebreaks, and the font is slightly glitched up).
Though at least he's not using the "We R Redwings" translation.

Yep, he's selling another cart with the same crappy hack for $50 OBO. I'd definitely say report.
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Recca

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2012, 11:53:31 pm »
Yes, only an ass would take someones free work and try and profit from it. Humanity fails because there are always people like that.
Yeah, I agree entirely. It certainly does suck when some jerk steals someones work which they did for free and tries to sell it. How ironic it is when one works hard to create something that's available for free on the web and makes no profit off it and another lazy person sells it to people who don't know any better... Well, that's why some translation groups such as AGTP and D-D use splash pages. To avoid having their work sold. It might not work 100% of the time, but it does cut down on the chances of the patch being sold (or rather I should say, a rom patched with the translation).

Not to mention that romhacking itself is a real grey area as it was mentioned before, so it's never good to see pre-patched roms being sold. Companies aren't really targetting romhacking/translation communities that much because we're translating retro games which are no longer being sold and which were never released in English (or other languages for which a fan translation exists) for free as a hobby. But if money becomes a factor and patches/roms are being sold, then it's a whole different story and they may choose to start taking actions against the hobby and the romhacking comunity which is not good to say the least. It's best to prevent people from selling free patches (especially with ridiculously high prices) not only because of the moral issues, but also to defend our hobby. That's at least my take on this...
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JCE3000GT

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2012, 02:20:39 am »
Yeah, I agree entirely. It certainly does suck when some jerk steals someones work which they did for free and tries to sell it.

They (Timewalk) didn't "steal" anybody's work first of all.  If you bothered to check out the site you'll see they give the credits to the rom hackers, and on the back of these boxes they also put the group/individual who worked on it.  The PSD template for each system's box has a spot for the artwork creator and hack/translation creator on the back.  I know this because I joined their group at the end of May.  My Mystic Quest hack will be available as a CIB (complete in box) on the Timewalk website by the end of the year.  And I look forward to the possibility of more of my hacks being reproduced on cartridges.

And not to mention the act of hacking/translating these roms to begin with is illegal, so, one copyright infringement infraction isn't any less illegal than another. 

Quote
How ironic it is when one works hard to create something that's available for free on the web and makes no profit off it and another lazy person sells it to people who don't know any better...

Do you how how much work in involved in actually creating the artwork, materials and the time it takes to put it all together?  It is very labor intensive and the materials aren't exactly cheap.  You need a compatible donor cart, the appropriate materials for the label/box/manual/map/insert, and of course the time it takes to actually put it all together.  This is not considering the web host, printing hardware, material prep hardware, legal copies of Photoshop/InDesign, and the EEPROM burner hardware + electrical items cost as well.

Quote
Companies aren't really targetting romhacking/translation communities that much because we're translating retro games which are no longer being sold and which were never released in English (or other languages for which a fan translation exists) for free as a hobby.

Oh?  http://crimsonechoes.com/


DarknessSavior

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2012, 03:09:27 am »
That link is actually interesting. I wasn't aware that they put up a copy of the C&D letter. I was one of the people who believed they were lying. How easily would something like that be faked?

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Recca

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2012, 10:50:09 am »
That's exactly my point. C-E received a C&D letter because they were modifying Chrono Trigger to create an entirely new game. Chrono Trigger WAS released in English so this hack might have effected Squares sales of Chrono Trigger DS. It was a very bad move on the part of the romhackers to create a hack so close to the CT DS release date... It's the same with re-translations. On the other hand, games like Der Langrisser which were never officially released in English are not being targetted by the corps.

The companies choose to look the other way when translation patches are created for retro games which were never released in English or whatever else language (such as the gens and snes games which stopped being sold/supported for over ten years). However, if people start making money off their games, they may choose to finally put a stop to it. Do you really want the whole romhacking scene to come to an end just because some hotshot started selling pre-patched games? I think not. Furthermore, I don't care "how much time it takes to create a cart" simply because it doesn't even begin to compare with the time and effort it takes to actually translate a game. Not to mention that it's done as a hobby and the romhackers and translators don't even make a cent off it. This is getting a bit tiring so I'll just say that we at D-D do not allow our translations to be sold (hence the splash pages). Other groups may choose to do what they want. Though romhacking is supposed to be a hobby...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 01:55:23 pm by Recca »
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KingMike

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2012, 04:36:15 pm »
That link is actually interesting. I wasn't aware that they put up a copy of the C&D letter. I was one of the people who believed they were lying. How easily would something like that be faked?

~DS

Actually, you could probably fake a letter pretty easy.

The issue seems to be that someone at S-E thought Temporal Flux was a copy-protection crack for the DS version. I'm pretty sure the SNES version of CT doesn't have copy-protection. I think I'll go legally backup my carts to be sure. :)
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LostTemplar

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2012, 04:40:48 pm »
Actually, you could probably fake a letter pretty easy.

Of course I don't want to accuse anyone of anything, but I actually wondered whether this was a fake or not. It looks rather unprofessional if you ask me.

KingMike

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2012, 05:54:30 pm »
I kinda think so. Shouldn't the letter be signed by an individual?

And yep.
Hey, Square-Enix. I'm playing some CT on an emulator

with ROMs dumped from these exact carts I own.

No Temporal Flux needed!
I wonder what they'd say? :D
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Zoinkity

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Re: Someone is selling reproduction rom-hack carts
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2012, 10:22:06 am »
Actually, anyone who puts a pre-patched game on a cart and sells it is guilty of intellectual theft against the company responsible for releasing the original game.  The only exception I can think of would be most ZX Spectrum games, as their community has already gone to great lengths to request copyright releases for all titles.  Even the hardware is open to the community now.

Translation, under US copyright law, is permitted.  In fact, the translation itself is your own intellectual property so you own its copyright.  Despite what some companies will claim, reverse-engineering is permitted under the law within certain guidelines, and information obtained in this fashion can be used for derivitive works.  You can't, obviously, make knockoffs of something patented without infringing on the patent, but you could make a design change that circumvents it. 

Any code you write is effectively your own code.  You can not prevent somebody from running code or interfacing with your own code.  If that code was being used to commit a crime, such as identity theft, then they can cut your head off an nail it to a wall (metaphorically, not literally) but under any other circumstances they can neither prevent you from running it nor grab it up for themselves.

There is an issue that comes in play when you make a sequel of sorts, insofar as the properties in the game are still the original copyright holder's.  For instance, dropping character from game A into game B is illegal without the permission of whoever owned that property.  Parody is an exception to that, and certain companies are dicier than others. 
Crimson Echoes skirted that to a degree; the characters were from the game that was patched, but they altered the sprite set significantly with derivative artwork.  It's grey enough it would wind up getting discussed in a court case, but in the end it probably would have been a dropped point.

Soft-patching is 100% legal, thank you Galoob vs. Nintendo.  Hardpatching a legally-obtained ROM is also perfectly acceptable, but we all know how many people DL them.  Distribution, however, without the express premission of copyright holders is not.  Giving credit does not work; you must have a release of copyright.  I, for one, don't retain any rights to my own code, but I'm a bit of an exception to the rule.
Certainly, if you believe that hacking ROMs is not legal, patching hacked content onto a dumped ROM and burning that to a new cart can't be either.

Temporal Flux is a good example of this.  It is not illegal to create ROM hacking software, nor alter said ROMs within legal bounds.  The editor is dependant on a legally-obtained ROM, and any additional code is provided by the user.  All data used for the editor is obtained through perfectly-legal reverse-engineering.  That's why he never stood down.
Crimson Echoes was a bit greyer but would probably still be exonerated in court.  The issue there is that the expense incurred defending their rights is restrictive.  A large company with legals on-staff can weather that storm indefinately.  The devs would have to countersue for expenses after already incuring some hefty debt.  I don't blame them for just standing down.  It isn't a battle of rights, but a monetary struggle in every sense.


There's quite a few cases for rom hackers selling their work to the original companies, spanning back all the way to the early arcade days.  Atari had a great policy for this, and many of what we concider 'classic' Atari arcade games are actually hacks.  The Stamper bros. who founded Rare caught Nintendo's eye with a game they developed by reverse-engineering the Famicom.  A part of Battlefield 2's staff were scalped from the crew that made the Desert Combat mod for BF1, and they bought their code off them for helicopters in BF: Vietnam.  It happens quite often, and you should be able to find plenty of other examples.
Square would have been much wiser to work with them and do a release for download.  Any sticky points in the plot that might not work with planned titles could be ironed out.