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Author Topic: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES  (Read 26996 times)

RetroHelix

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Re: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2015, 10:29:36 am »
Please practice what you preach, Mr not-a-mod.  :P
Hi, I'm Mr. Not-A-Mod 2. Please stop being a jerk already.

Quote from: obscurumlux01
I don't know what you think of with hacking but back in the day if you were caught using another scene-group's code in your 'release' without attribution then you were raked over the coals and absolutely obliterated in the online discussions.  You were effectively blacklisted as a 'leech' and 'sellout' and you were lucky if ANYONE carried your releases or bothered to report on them anymore.  Attribution is good manners, both for fair use and for common sense.

PS. Which scene are you talking about?

dougeff

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Re: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2015, 01:02:16 pm »
Quote
Hacking isn't short for 'hijacking'.
 

I always thought the term was derived from the pre-computer era usage...to swing an axe at a piece of wood...with the implication that someone is working very hard on a project.

Like a programmer staying up late, hacking away at the code until it functions correctly.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES

obscurumlux01

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Re: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2015, 03:57:56 pm »
Hacking was derived from taking apart something to figure out how it works and then putting it back together.  It was more about learning how things work than anything else.  At least that's how it used to be in ye olden days of the pre-internet era.

The early pre-computer 'hackers' would be the ones who would take apart an appliance (washing machine for instance) and then put it back together or redesign it to run/work better.

The 'hacking away at a tree' is a different type of meaning.  Hacking is more than just expending effort, it is about expending productive effort for a specific mental task of learning and improvement.

VicVergil

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Re: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2015, 01:39:05 pm »
Fitting in new stuff in a finished exectutable (the ROM) is normally impossible since it would spill over other needed stuff and overwrite it, potentially making the game unplayable.

So, people either replace existing data with data exactly the same size or smaller, or would just hook new stuff (either text/graphic/etc assets or assembly programming) then alter pointers so that the new stuff is referenced.

Of course, altering ROMs often also involves decomposig the data to individual parts to identify them, extract them, modify them separatedly and reinsert them.

This is why modders and translators of retro games have come to accept the hacker label because it fits these aspects of what they do.

Not hacker in the sense of people breaking up locks on digital safes to steal stuff - though some game publishers often use this nuance to refer to romhackers to villify them in cases they don't serve their business interests.

That said, it's shameful Jonesy47's passion for this mod many of us are eagerly expecting, is met by mean spirited messages where the obvious intent is to drag down his efforts, and it's about:
a - the mod is late
b - telling people interested in the original Metal Gear canon to go play instead the official corporate-approved shiny new non-retro legal(tm) releases
c - minimal-effort attempts to call people plagiarists and scummy thieves

And on top of that, you're trying to police what people do here?

Rom hacks are done without the consent of the original creators and publishers. These creators are aware of this and turn a blind eye over it as long as no actual ROM data or part of it (example: DQ7 script) is being distributed, in fact they even support it as it improves the visibility for their retro stuff (Square's comments on FF5 at the PS1 days, Reggie and Miyamoto on Mother 3, LunarIPS automatic hacks from niconico in Super Mario Maker...).

Even if they want to support mods openly, they are afraid iPhone clone game devs will take advantage legally from a formal authorization to use their assets. Or fear to lose the trademark due to the stupid US copyright laws.
 
This site specifically mostly deals with retro games who are for companies just bibliography footnotes and archeological relics with no intent for preservation or improvement (if they even can, considering pixel edition and retro assembly expertise has been mostly lost from the industry).

So remove that stick already and deal with it - No one is interested in high-horse riding lessons about how to reduce "(non-issues i deem now big problems) in the scene".

Your nostalgic blackout boycott of mods failing to abide by your "limitations" and being "dangerous"?
1 - it doesn't apply here : for someone trying to not to assume the weight of your mean-spirited jabs at a hardworking productive member because "i put them there but they're striked", you're sure spending a ton of time calling out a "plagiarism" problem specifically in the "scene.

Last I'm aware of, he wasn't from the "romhacking scene", that youtuber who just had a funny artwork that you deem he and all those who ever did deviantart fanart won't escape your plagiarism watcheful vengeful falcon eye and get away with it just because those company lawyers shrugged off these crimes.
(or maybe he did and your stellar research skills strike again?)

So I assume this is just you doubling down on your rude manners.

2 - this stuff is often mentioned in the readme, in the special thanks section. Casual verbal 'okay' and common courtesy is the norm. There's a culture of sharing. They don't need your bloated creative license and witchhunts/boycotts/blackouts from the good-old-days. Or arbitrary limitations that the "borrowed" assets must come from the same series - I'll use that Earthbound font wherever I like, thank you very much.

I'm rather interested in what our self-appointed policeman contributed to the romhacking scene beyond his lawmaking skills.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 01:44:43 pm by GHANMI »

Maeson

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Re: Hacking the original Metal Gear NES
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2015, 05:29:44 pm »
I'm rather interested in what our self-appointed policeman contributed to the romhacking scene beyond his lawmaking skills.

While I agree with pretty much everything you say, I think that this conversation, if it's going to continue, it would be better on a separate thread. Mostly because I don't see how this can be helpful to Jonesy47's hack, and taking the attention from it could be bad, as the author could simply lose interest if his work is going to create silly internet fights, or the attention shifts to the disputes  from his attempt to improve a game...

I mean, I think up to this point it has been "harmful" enough with the Mystery of the OC Rabbit.
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