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Author Topic: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal  (Read 36437 times)

zeteginara

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2011, 12:08:03 am »
Here's the thing that really gets to me when something like this happens.

neoxephon is quite right that there are three such groups of people, and the third group is the 'cancer' on the translation community.

The thing is, that community exists in every facet of the internet.  They are called flamers and trolls.  They exist only to escalate arguments... to no real end.  There is a community of them out there, who brag about their accomplishments.  You shouldn't let them bother you; you shouldn't pay them heed.  The fact that these trolls (and I caught several glimpses of them on Crimson Nocturnal's website.  I've seen much, much, MUCH worse) are being given responsibility for ending this project is... outrageously disappointing.  And by that I mean I'm outrageously disappointed in any great work that ends because trolls got to someone.

A tip to EVERYONE wanting to work on a project of any kind:  The internet is a big scary place full of assholes.  There's nothing that obligates you to listen to them all.  If you don't want to, moderate your forum.  Let only people who have constructive things to say, on.  An argument can only escalate and make both sides walk away feeling angry.

No one is entitled to anything.  Listen to the people who support you, and no more.  Yes, offering bugfixes and such is a form of support.  Flamers will flame, Trolls will troll, and you quitting your project because of them won't make you a martyr.  Just a victory for the trolls, and a disappointment to everyone who supported you.

Aquillion

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2011, 12:54:18 am »
Zeteginara, I think that you shouldn't put too much weight in the idea that they stopped just because of trolls.  I think that Nightcrawler hit the nail on the head:
I don't know why this is newsworthy. I've seen so many people come and go over the years, it's just commonplace. *shrug* I do like the spin here breaking this out into a discussion of our community dynamics though. For me, it always comes down to being in it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons. The people that are in it for the right reasons are long lasting. The people that aren't, don't last. When you're in it for the right reasons, the naysayers aren't going to stop you.
Probably, the truth is they found that translating games wasn't as fun as they expected, or they slowly got bored with it, but kept working on it because they felt they had a "duty" to fans or because they'd invested so much work already.

When it reaches that point, it's easy to see how seeing a few rude or annoying comments could make them say "wait a minute, I'm not even enjoying this -- why the hell am I wasting my time on it?" and quit.

But I suspect that what it comes down to is that they just weren't having fun doing the translation in general, and reading all those comments just made them say "wait, why the hell am I working so hard on this, anyway?" and realize they couldn't answer.  I've been in that situation before with other sorts of projects -- where you hit a day-to-day annoyance and it suddenly makes you quit.  Usually, thinking back, I realize that I was just looking for an excuse to quit, and that I probably should've quit a lot earlier.

(The fact that the goodbye message ends with an "I will absolutely never be a part of a big group again" also makes me suspect that the group's internal dynamics weren't so healthy, which could definitely sap all the fun out of things.)

Romsstar

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2011, 08:03:34 am »
Zeteginara, I think that you shouldn't put too much weight in the idea that they stopped just because of trolls.  I think that Nightcrawler hit the nail on the head:
I don't know why this is newsworthy. I've seen so many people come and go over the years, it's just commonplace. *shrug* I do like the spin here breaking this out into a discussion of our community dynamics though. For me, it always comes down to being in it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons. The people that are in it for the right reasons are long lasting. The people that aren't, don't last. When you're in it for the right reasons, the naysayers aren't going to stop you.
Probably, the truth is they found that translating games wasn't as fun as they expected, or they slowly got bored with it, but kept working on it because they felt they had a "duty" to fans or because they'd invested so much work already.

When it reaches that point, it's easy to see how seeing a few rude or annoying comments could make them say "wait a minute, I'm not even enjoying this -- why the hell am I wasting my time on it?" and quit.

But I suspect that what it comes down to is that they just weren't having fun doing the translation in general, and reading all those comments just made them say "wait, why the hell am I working so hard on this, anyway?" and realize they couldn't answer.  I've been in that situation before with other sorts of projects -- where you hit a day-to-day annoyance and it suddenly makes you quit.  Usually, thinking back, I realize that I was just looking for an excuse to quit, and that I probably should've quit a lot earlier.

(The fact that the goodbye message ends with an "I will absolutely never be a part of a big group again" also makes me suspect that the group's internal dynamics weren't so healthy, which could definitely sap all the fun out of things.)

This is a problem that in my opinion occurs in many translation groups.
I agree on what you said but then again I also think that you shouldn't depend too much on the fans and the comments.
After all, you are doing it not only for them but also for yourself.
I've been in romhacking groups, fansubbing groups, manga translation groups.
I've seen them all and I tell you it is just the same everywhere.
If you work to please the audience you will always fail.

Because there is no way to please everyone in the audience.
I think they quitted because the motivation was wrong.
I had that too.
You start working for fun.

Then you realize people like your work and suddenly it is not about the work anymore, but about the people.
You like being applauded, you like to hear "you guys are awesome" and all this stuff.

This is when all things begin to fall apart. Because you begin not to care that much for the project anymore.
And I think this is exactly what went wrong here. They started to care about people they don't even know and
not about the project they dedicated themself to.

In the end, there will always be persons that are unhappy with your work. That's just life.
What is the most important is that YOU, the one who started this because it is YOUR project, YOUR team,
that YOU are happy with the result.

Seriously screw what the others think... As long as you've given it your best shot and you are happy with your work,
that is all what matters.

Alas, this group forgot about it. It happens.
They will return.
Not in the way they used to, but somehow they will.

Why? Because you always want to be liked and acknowledged for your work if you ever tasted it once.

Don't get me wrong, support is great.
But everyone who started fansubbing, translating, programming, basically anything of that stuff, has to realize that they are doing it for themselves.

The "we are doing it for the fans" line can't be applied to these days. It is just like that.
You are doing it for yourselves and letting others be part of it. That is what you are doing, and if others don't want to be part of it, screw it because this was never the reason you started this.

corndogmaestro

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2011, 04:00:02 pm »
Little late to the game here, but still have to remark on it. The one thing that bothers me the most about all this? THEY DIDN'T RELEASE ANY SORT OF RESOURCES, IN CASE SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO CONTINUE THE PROJECT. Would it have been that hard? No. A zip, a megaupload link, and leaving it at that. BUT NO.

MegamanX

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2011, 05:26:21 pm »
If you're pissed off at ungrateful people that hound you about stuff, would you want to give them anything at all?

cidkramer

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Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2012, 10:09:30 am »
I figure I'd throw my 2 cents into the bin. I know this topic is old... I just came across it yesterday.

NeoXephon decided on his own to close his site and operation down without any notice. It came as a surprise to the last 2 active members (Easton West and myself).
The 3 of us had been working very hard to get those patches out, with the majority of work happening between translation and editing (Easton and myself). I got sick in Jan '11 with 2 consecutive colds but managed to finish up my bit. Once I regained my health I joined in editing bugs people found.. then one day I tried to go to the site and found it closed. That's pretty much it, wish I could say more happened, but I was active on the forum and didn't see it coming.

As far as resources go.. I have the script and am now apart of Cain's project, working on Saga 3. We had DarthNemesis join our team recently, so I pitched the idea of resurrecting Saga 2 once we're done with Saga 3... and it may just happen.