News: 11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Current Moderators - DarkSol, KingMike, MathOnNapkins, Azkadellia, Danke

Author Topic: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal  (Read 30378 times)

RHDNBot

  • Guest
Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« on: May 15, 2011, 10:04:15 am »

Update By: Someone

Crimson Nocturnal, the group responsible for the SaGa 2 English translation, is now at its end:

Quote
Crimson Nocturnal was created to be something enjoyable and, in a way, educational for those of us that worked on the projects. Gamers getting great games that they would have never played otherwise was just an added bonus.

In the game translation community, you have three different groups of people. There are the people that get involved and do their part and are a real asset to the projects. You have the people that don't or can't be involved directly with the projects, but they sit on the sidelines and are supportive and understanding and patient. Then you have those that think that these projects are something they're entitled to, that they should get it when they want it and how they want it.

The third and last group are the real cancer of the community. You do your best to ignore them and pretend they do not exist, but in the end they're still there whining and bitching and complaining about every little thing that doesn't go their way.

These projects take a lot of time, focus, and dedication. It siphens away pretty much all of your free time and even occasionally eats into the rest of your time. The only thing that keeps you going on these projects is the enjoyment and the learning process of the projects.

Having to continually read comments about how you haven't updated enough, or released anything in X amount of time. Having to deal with people whine and complain about something that costs them nothing at all wears on you.

...


The whole message can be read at their website.

Relevant Link: (http://crimson-nocturnal.com/)

skroops

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 10:51:05 am »
tldr; quitting scene

sauyadav

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 02:00:55 pm »
It is sad that they have to quit but I guess its best for them. Good luck for future.

KaioShin

  • RHDN Patreon Supporter!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
    • View Profile
    • The Romhacking Aerie
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 02:13:48 pm »
tldr; quitting scene

I think comments like this are exactly what got them to quit, meant sarcastic, ironic or however. Good job!
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

vivify93

  • Submission Reviewer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Guardian of Mystery
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 03:56:47 pm »
It's a bit unfortunate. I was looking forward to their SaGa 3 DS translation in the shadows. That's the way the cookie crumbles, though. Best of luck to them in the future in whatever endeavors they undertake.
All my life I've tried to fight what history has given me.

ze10

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 06:15:41 pm »
That's quite sad.
And also points out a problem in the translation community. I've seen quite a few (smaller) translation groups ending or giving up projects because of the same reason stated by Crimson Nocturnal. I wonder what'll happen in the future if things continue like this. We have big teams like AGTP, Transcorp and Dynamic Designs going for a long time, but we can't depend on them to translate every game we want translated. Not to mention that they won't last forever (though I hope they do last for a LOOONG time).
The smaller groups who have people willing to make quality translations, like the one SaGa 2 got, are important so that we keep having access to great games that never came to the west...

FallenAngel2387

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 07:20:48 pm »
That's quite sad.
And also points out a problem in the translation community. I've seen quite a few (smaller) translation groups ending or giving up projects because of the same reason stated by Crimson Nocturnal. I wonder what'll happen in the future if things continue like this. We have big teams like AGTP, Transcorp and Dynamic Designs going for a long time, but we can't depend on them to translate every game we want translated. Not to mention that they won't last forever (though I hope they do last for a LOOONG time).
The smaller groups who have people willing to make quality translations, like the one SaGa 2 got, are important so that we keep having access to great games that never came to the west...

I know you mean well, but those comments in bold can be taken another way.

For the first one, it's like, where does the want end? I mean the industry just keeps cranking stuff out that, all things considered, should be better than the generations that tend to get rom translations in the first place. I'm a classic/retro gamer through and through, but I think there's more than enough options that came out in my region, before we even get into the 5th generation of gaming, let alone translations.

As for the second one, it's not important that these projects ever finish. It's cool when they do, and we have something new to play, but it is not by any means a necessity. It's a project, a hobby, for the translators/hackers involved. When it becomes "important," that's when unnecessary pressure is place on the project staff, and people start to become exactly like what they described as the "3rd group" in that message.

Entertainment should always be little more than a hobby, something to help get through a rough day, or boredom. When it becomes something more, and it becomes necessity, then you just fail at life, honestly.

ze10

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 09:22:07 pm »
That's quite sad.
And also points out a problem in the translation community. I've seen quite a few (smaller) translation groups ending or giving up projects because of the same reason stated by Crimson Nocturnal. I wonder what'll happen in the future if things continue like this. We have big teams like AGTP, Transcorp and Dynamic Designs going for a long time, but we can't depend on them to translate every game we want translated. Not to mention that they won't last forever (though I hope they do last for a LOOONG time).
The smaller groups who have people willing to make quality translations, like the one SaGa 2 got, are important so that we keep having access to great games that never came to the west...

I know you mean well, but those comments in bold can be taken another way.

For the first one, it's like, where does the want end? I mean the industry just keeps cranking stuff out that, all things considered, should be better than the generations that tend to get rom translations in the first place. I'm a classic/retro gamer through and through, but I think there's more than enough options that came out in my region, before we even get into the 5th generation of gaming, let alone translations.

As for the second one, it's not important that these projects ever finish. It's cool when they do, and we have something new to play, but it is not by any means a necessity. It's a project, a hobby, for the translators/hackers involved. When it becomes "important," that's when unnecessary pressure is place on the project staff, and people start to become exactly like what they described as the "3rd group" in that message.

Entertainment should always be little more than a hobby, something to help get through a rough day, or boredom. When it becomes something more, and it becomes necessity, then you just fail at life, honestly.

As for your first comment, indeed, the many game options available nowadays sort of decreases the demand of rom translations.
And as for your second comment, I agree that nobody can or should force people to translate games or anything like that. What I mean is, if the person wants to give up because he lost interest in the work or real life doesn't give him free time, then fine. What annoys me is when the lack of will to work on something you like (I'm assuming that the people working in a translation group LIKES doing what they do) comes from other people diminishing the value or effort of your work. They do it EXACTLY because they don't understand what you said in your second comment.

So, to sum up what I meant to say, I know that we have many new games coming out everyday, and that there are many games for all the tastes. Just like you, I'm a retro gamer. I know that there are many games that I haven't played and that will please me and don't need a translation. However, as a retro gamer and as member of this community, I bet you've played a translated game that surpasses many of the new age games. Not in terms of graphic or sound, but in terms of "value."
The whole point of this community, in my opinion, is not simply to "add" more games to the games available (available as in a game we can fully understand it) to us. I think of it that way, we are underestimating the work all the work translatiors, hackers and everybody else do. They give us the opportunity to enjoy "new experiences from the past". For example, I waited for almost (or over) 10 years to get Mystic Ark translated. When it was, I was so thrilled, even more when I am when I buy a new game. I've beaten it twice before the translation came out and could do nothing more than speculate about what was happening. I felt like a school girl when I could finally play it in English. That's what these people, translators, hackers etc do. And I thank them.

aqualung

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 11:57:10 pm »
My two cents (sorry if i'm unable to explain exactly what I want or some parts are misunderstood, English is not my first language after all. But I'll do my best)

I completely agree with the last post by ze10. But I also want to add that, in my opinion, what Crimson Nocturnal has done is just nonsensical. To give up because some people keeps annoying is something I don't understand. There will always be stupid people who can't do anything apart from whining and complaining, but I don't think anybody should stop doing things they like because of this. If the Crimson Nocturnal team started translating it's obviously because they like it, and giving up this way they don't show much more maturity than the assholes that have forced this situation. Moreover, to punish such imbeciles, the rest of the people who supported and/or helped them in one way or another and did nothing wrong, are being punished as well. "Pagan justos por pecadores" is an idiomatic expression from my language that would completely fit (dunno if there's an English equivalent).

I think we all should have learnt at certain point in life to ignore people that pisses us off (that have always existed, exist and will exist) and keep going on our way. If at least the decision of Crimson Nocturnal of closing their site and quit translating would serve for the specific people who have cause this situation to learn something, it would have been useful, but that's not the case. It's just a rushed bad idea, a tantrum that benefits nobody. But well, they are free to do what they want and no one has the right to force them to continue if that's their decision.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 12:10:43 am by aqualung »

Nightcrawler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5770
    • View Profile
    • Nightcrawler's Translation Corporation
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 09:23:40 am »
I don't know why this is newsworthy. I've seen so many people come and go over the years, it's just commonplace. *shrug* I do like the spin here breaking this out into a discussion of our community dynamics though. For me, it always comes down to being in it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons. The people that are in it for the right reasons are long lasting. The people that aren't, don't last. When you're in it for the right reasons, the naysayers aren't going to stop you.

I also agree ignoring people that upset you is a fundamental skill of life for coexisting with other humans, especially if they have no direct influence or control over you.
TransCorp - Over 20 years of community dedication.
Dual Orb 2, Wozz, Emerald Dragon, Tenshi No Uta, Glory of Heracles IV SFC/SNES Translations

KaioShin

  • RHDN Patreon Supporter!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
    • View Profile
    • The Romhacking Aerie
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 09:54:09 am »
For me, it always comes down to being in it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons.

And what are the wrong reasons? I don't think you can see a 12+ month project through to completion if you don't do it with - for you as the author - the right reasons.
All my posts are merely personal opinions and not statements of fact, even if they are not explicitly prefixed by "In my opinion", "IMO", "I believe", or similar modifiers. By reading this disclaimer you agree to reply in spirit of these conditions.

skroops

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 09:58:34 am »
tldr; quitting scene

I think comments like this are exactly what got them to quit, meant sarcastic, ironic or however. Good job!

Pretty sure I've never posted to their board.  If they read that and it hurts their feelings then no wonder they quit.

What Defines A Monster?

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 12:36:15 pm »
I think there's more than enough options that came out in my region, before we even get into the 5th generation of gaming, let alone translations.

It's not about options, at least from where I see it- it's more of the simple fact that, buisnesswise, there are games that we enjoy that large companies feel would not bring them enough green to bring over this way. Hotel Dusk 2, Another Code 2, the SaGa 2 DS translation, to name just a few. Not to mention the fact that Capcom has publicly stated they have no plans at all to bother translating the next Ace Attorney. The "options" in many cases like this ends up simply going without something we enjoy.
What sayest thou, o fool? I say that religion hath done my bidding for me- while ye pretend free will exists, ye take it away and convert by force. Such is ye, who do my work.

Metal Knuckles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • WE MUST GATTAI
    • View Profile
    • Sonic Retro
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 02:16:24 pm »
tldr; quitting scene

I think comments like this are exactly what got them to quit, meant sarcastic, ironic or however. Good job!
I think that the message at Crimson Nocturnal was more insulting, to be honest. Even as an avid supporter of the scene who has not once complained or demanded updates, their message carried nothing but a huge "SCREW YOU" throughout the entire thing. I honestly would have felt a lot more understanding had they just said in one or two sentences "Well guys, it was fun! See ya later!" instead of the pent-up rant they sent our way.

kingofcrusher

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 02:39:34 pm »
^^ Then you must belong to the third group of people because the message is definitely NOT insulting to anyone in the first two groups.

Aquillion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2011, 03:10:27 pm »
It's not about options, at least from where I see it- it's more of the simple fact that, buisnesswise, there are games that we enjoy that large companies feel would not bring them enough green to bring over this way. Hotel Dusk 2, Another Code 2, the SaGa 2 DS translation, to name just a few. Not to mention the fact that Capcom has publicly stated they have no plans at all to bother translating the next Ace Attorney. The "options" in many cases like this ends up simply going without something we enjoy.
Compared to what it once was, though (in the SNES era, say), things are drastically different.

I mean, in the NES/SNES era, we didn't get Final Fantasy 2-3 or 5, or Dragon Warrior 5-6, or any of the early SMT games.  That would be almost unthinkable now.  The Final Fantasy 5 translation project in particular attracted a huge amount of attention to the scene.  Not saying that some of the untranslated games today aren't things some fans would like, but it's a whole different world.  In the SNES era there were entire major genres that were hardly ever brought over.

KingMike

  • Forum Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6934
  • *sigh* A changed avatar. Big deal.
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2011, 04:21:34 pm »
According to Nintendo Power, Enix America did have 7th Saga 2/Mystic Ark, Terranigma, Tactics Ogre and Dragon Warrior VI in the plans before they decided to hibernate for five years. :P

Quote from the same issue, reporting about Shoshinkai '95: "New Game Boy titles included Tokyo Disneyland, The King of Fighters, and a fun little RPG called Pocket Monsters from Nintendo."
Don't know if anyone ever played that last one. :D
"My watch says 30 chickens" Google, 2018

Chpexo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
    • View Profile
.
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2011, 05:24:46 pm »
.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 11:40:57 am by Chpexo »

What Defines A Monster?

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2011, 06:30:10 pm »
Compared to what it once was, though (in the SNES era, say), things are drastically different.
I mean, in the NES/SNES era, we didn't get Final Fantasy 2-3 or 5, or Dragon Warrior 5-6, or any of the early SMT games.  That would be almost unthinkable now. 

This is why these translation groups are more important than ever. When a major, high profile title like a Final Fantasy misses a localization in this era, it's a shock, and you know the company is most likely biding its time. But with small translation groups, business sale potential is irrelevant- home translators are the ones bringing the games out that WON'T gain high profile attention. These aren't titles a company is going to return to in five, six years time to exploit the fanbase. These are unique, very niche titles that don't have an equivalent in the "mainstream", which is why the companies pass them up. You won't find another game quite like Ace Attorney or Another Code.
What sayest thou, o fool? I say that religion hath done my bidding for me- while ye pretend free will exists, ye take it away and convert by force. Such is ye, who do my work.

Metal Knuckles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • WE MUST GATTAI
    • View Profile
    • Sonic Retro
Re: Translations: The Death of Crimson Nocturnal
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2011, 10:32:19 pm »
^^ Then you must belong to the third group of people because the message is definitely NOT insulting to anyone in the first two groups.
When three quarters of the goodbye message is dedicated to slamming the leechers of the community, and then members who treat translation groups are thanked as almost an afterthought, then that's telling me the purpose of the goodbye wasn't to say "so long, and thanks for all the fish" as much as it was to cry the horrors of working in this community. The fact that his final words are "One thing is for sure, I will never be a part of a big public translation group again. Adios." says as much.

The message may not be insulting towards the first or second groups. But the fact that almost the entirety of the message was them lashing out was insulting in it's own way.