Team ROM hack project

[Blazkowicz13]

Hey guys, what's up!

I'm a little new to ROM hacking and I thought that it would be fun to do a group hack, where everyone changes different parts of a game for a cool final product.  I'm thinking of redesigning the levels, changing the enemies, and maybe hacking the music.  Who wants to be on the team?

[Jorpho]

1102: How can I start a ROM hacking group?

One of the biggest neophyte mistakes is to attempt to start a new
ROM hacking group to accomplish some project you've thought up. First
of all, no experienced ROM hacker is going to join a group founded
by someone who's never released a ROM hack. Secondly, unless you plan
to do a significant portion of the work (and no, managing a team does
not count) then most ROM hackers will avoid your attempt to start a
group because it looks like you're wanting to take credit for their
hard work. If you really want to start a ROM hacking group, then show
some progress on a project of your own and then solicit people to
help you with it. It's generally easier to find an existing group and
offer your services to them, however.

The Definitive Guide to ROM Hacking for Complete Beginners

[snarfblam]

I think first you would need to convince people that the project will not be a disorderly disaster and that it has good odds of reaching completion. For me, that would probably mean demonstrating the ability to lead such a project and an organized outline of the project's goals and objectives, among other things. Threads like this seem to pop up from time to time, and normally don't end up leading to anything. You might also consider joining an existing group or contributing to an open collaboration.

[Blazkowicz13]

1102: How can I start a ROM hacking group?

One of the biggest neophyte mistakes is to attempt to start a new
ROM hacking group to accomplish some project you've thought up. First
of all, no experienced ROM hacker is going to join a group founded
by someone who's never released a ROM hack. Secondly, unless you plan
to do a significant portion of the work (and no, managing a team does
not count) then most ROM hackers will avoid your attempt to start a
group because it looks like you're wanting to take credit for their
hard work. If you really want to start a ROM hacking group, then show
some progress on a project of your own and then solicit people to
help you with it. It's generally easier to find an existing group and
offer your services to them, however.

The Definitive Guide to ROM Hacking for Complete Beginners

I'm actually not a complete "neophyte" to ROM hacking, and I have released a couple of hacks on some other, more obscure hacking websites.  I've also started hacking a few other games, but was unsatisfied and did not release them, primarily because I felt that the original games themselves were unenjoyable to play, and no one would want to play a hack of said game. 

I don't know why anyone would think I would just take credit for someone else's work.  I just wanted to start a group hack of a game like, say, MegaMan 2, where there are separate stages.  Each hacker could work on a separate stage and change whatever attributes of it they wanted (although common enemies and characters would have to be agreed upon beforehand, of course).  Everyone would get credit for what they did.

I didn't start work on a specific game because I thought that if there was no interest then I'd just wasted time and effort at a hack that I'd never finish.  In my opinion, it would be better to ask everyone what game they want to hack before starting out on it.

[badinsults]

SMW Central did something like this for Super Mario World, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

[Blazkowicz13]

SMW Central did something like this for Super Mario World, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

So, are you saying that any and all group hacks will result in failure?

[RyanfaeScotland]

The quote from Jorpho isn't about you specifically so I would take any of it personally. The guide he links to gives some good advice if you haven't read it yet.

That said, what you are trying to do is pretty similar, get a group of hackers to work on the same rom and since you're not really known to the community you might find it pretty hard.

It may be a case of 'build it and they will come' if you know what I mean. If you can drum up an interesting sounding competition, or maybe not even a competition just a bit of fun, then people will take part. It may not be the elite uber hackers you want but I reckon you could get at least 5 or so people intersted if you can make it appealing enough.

[Ryusui]

Treating it as a comp might be a good way to go.

The only problem I see is integrating the hacks. If there's any overlap between what different people have changed, you won't be able to simply apply a succession of IPS patches to the ROM.

[Nightcrawler]

SMW Central did something like this for Super Mario World, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

So, are you saying that any and all group hacks will result in failure?

If we're talking large group hacks on a massive scale, then, yes. I've never seen a successful one in near 15 years, since the beginning of ROM hacking. If by group, you mean a few or a small handful of people, then your chances of success exist, however still statistically small in this community. There's a first time for everything though.

[creeperton]

.

[Metal Knuckles]

Well hold on. VIP 5 is a compilation from several SMW hackers, and it implements a wide variety (read: understatement) of changes in each level, let alone the whole thing. Of course, I'm sure that there's a project head who organizes who does what and makes sure that code doesn't conflict, but it can be done.

That being said, this idea sounds awful.

[KingMike]

I wanted to like SMW Central Production, but why I stopped in world 3 was that it seems everyone wanted to do hard levels. Also, having a collab hack means you can have several people repeating the same bad ideas, for example, one I'd call pancake platforms. Several one block tall pass through platforms stacked together, and you have to make Mario jump onto a specific one. I don't know if someone was in charge of modifying the levels after the levels were compiled together to adjust for difficulty balance (high-speed runaway Grinders in the first castle?), and consistency (like sometimes coins mark safe spots from blind jumps, sometimes they mark pits), but it didn't feel like it.

[Klarth]

If we're talking large group hacks on a massive scale, then, yes. I've never seen a successful one in near 15 years, since the beginning of ROM hacking. If by group, you mean a few or a small handful of people, then your chances of success exist, however still statistically small in this community. There's a first time for everything though.

This is due to poor planning IMO.  Any real software project has major task breakdowns (deliverables), (mostly) competent workers to assign the tasks to, and a schedule to implement the tasks.  The design (although changeable) is broadly defined at this stage and the scope of work is known.  Most community projects are as well-planned as a pick up game of basketball.  People don't plan to fail - they fail to plan.

[Nightcrawler]

To that I say:

1. There aren't enough competent/skilled workers for a very large group.
2. It's often not possible to know how long something will take or the scope of work until thorough investigation into the game code is done, or in many cases not until work has started. New discoveries at any stage along the way can greatly influence scope of work and time frame.
3. In a low priority hobbies, dates, deliverable, and assigned tasks are thrown right out the window.

In conclusion, it is not feasible to have a well planned mass hacking project under these constraints.

[k0k0]

The Badderhackers just finished a 10 man team hack project of the game Monster Party and the whole thing is awesome, so you're quite a bit wrong about people not being able to get together and nail out something pertinent. Changes include new music for all the levels, a change in mappers, the ability to lunge, new boss behavior, bat range extended, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I didn't take part in the hacking since I wasn't around when it was my turn. It was kind of a tag team effort where one person would work on one level, another person would work on the next until it was complete, then one person finalized everything to put it all together with ideas from the rest of the group. I watched the first half and the end half take shape and it plays really awesomely. So that just goes to show you, team rom hack projects do work if you get the right team together.

[RyanfaeScotland]

I watched the first half and the end half take shape...

So the whole thing then 

[k0k0]

I meant quarter 

[ChaoticFox]

SMW Central did something like this for Super Mario World, and it was an unmitigated disaster.

A bit late, but not too long ago, the site released a team hack that was developed by well over a hundred members on the site. The project was considered a success overall.