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Final Fantasy VII NES Project (Completed!)

Started by Lugia2009, April 08, 2011, 12:22:37 PM

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Lugia2009

QuoteI will give you an example
The right side is your graphics and the left is my adjustment.

Okay, I fixed it.



The last part of City of the Ancients is finished:



I did my best with this scene, I don't know if it'll bring a tear to anyone's eye, but it's much more accurate than it was before.

Pikachumanson

It woulda been if you coulda triggered a ninja gaiden style cutscene for this part.

InfamousKnight

Quote from: Pikachumanson on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 PM
It woulda been if you coulda triggered a ninja gaiden style cutscene for this part.
nah, that would just take more studying. I played around in the tile layer and you gotta give lugia the credit after seeing how much of a pain this is. I think it looks colorful lugia! Just a little more left! What are you going to due to the final areas? Those look challenging. I don't think theres any need to continue the graphics for a while. How about if you alter the beginning a bit? Cause seriously, those last parts are gonna be a bit tough. I think we should donate to you after this is done. Probably even right now. But I'm not doing very good with finances so I just thought of the idea.

ChronoMoogle

In this szene you have to use the imagination of the player. Do many quiet pauses, use changing music and give the characters fitting poses and more touching dialogue to make it sad.

InfamousKnight

Is there any way to even access that scene? It appears theres a house in the way.

Lugia2009

#1205
Quotenah, that would just take more studying. I played around in the tile layer and you gotta give lugia the credit after seeing how much of a pain this is. I think it looks colorful lugia! Just a little more left! What are you going to due to the final areas?

Thanks. Yeah, it can be a bit of a pain, but I'm pretty used to it now.  I have a bit of an idea on how I'm going to do the events for Gaea's Cliff, but I'm not quite sure how I should have it look just yet.  I'll figure it out when I get there.  But when I get to the last couple areas of the game, I'm going to go and redo a few things before I finish up the rest of the maps.


QuoteI think we should donate to you after this is done. Probably even right now.

:laugh: I appreciate it, and god knows I need the money, but I couldn't accept donations.  I don't have any desire in profiting on this project, I do this for fun.




I uploaded videos of this scene to youtube.

Aerith's Death (Old Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRTEnR9tVE&feature=youtu.be

Aerith's Death (New Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpyIZdTeik

April 13, 2013, 08:07:17 PM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

I added the new patch for this game to the front page.

Terr

#1206
Quote

BTW, this excavation looks like dry creek, do you plan/can you (or it is possible to) modify "creek's tiles" in order they got any "shadows" like in the "original" graphic?


Quote from: Lugia2009 on April 13, 2013, 05:06:18 PMAerith's Death (Old Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRTEnR9tVE&feature=youtu.be

Aerith's Death (New Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpyIZdTeik

Yep, this scene has been definitely worth all of your efforts. Really good job!

M-Tee

I hate to be that guy, but honestly I like all of the original screens better. Your patterns are dense and distracting and your palette changes highly questionable. Saying more with less is a better rule to stick by... and the original blue-on-blue palette of the water was very well done, and completely lost in yours.

Chpexo

Quote from: M_tee on April 13, 2013, 11:16:15 PM
I hate to be that guy, but honestly I like all of the original screens better. Your patterns are dense and distracting and your palette changes highly questionable. Saying more with less is a better rule to stick by... and the original blue-on-blue palette of the water was very well done, and completely lost in yours.
You sound completely wrong but your there is a little truth in your statements.

The thing that has been nagging me is that I can't distinguish between the background and the walkable tiles because of black in the walkable tiles. However, the graphics are way better than the Chinese version that borrows graphics from previous Final Fantasy games that can be unfitting at times.

Quote from: M_tee on April 13, 2013, 11:16:15 PMblue-on-blue palette of the water was very well done, and completely lost in yours.

I agree with this. Even if the the the stone is well STONE it will change to blue since it shares the same palette as the water. However, it the stone will look fine with the palette change. Good call.

And also there area where Aeris dies should be more exact I'll upload my edits.

By the way, the new Aeris death cutscene looks WAY better

M-Tee

Quote from: Lugia2009 on March 24, 2013, 07:31:52 PM




This one for example: The buildings look better, but that's it. In the original, the ground of the top tier and the bottom tier are different, showing that they're at two altitudes. The sparse and sporadic pattern of the snow floor adds interest without being overwhelming. The cliff face is a vertical pattern of stones, with a variety of texture and has a shadow cast at its base, making it clearly read as a cliff wall and furthering the illusion of a depth distance between the two. The snow covered trees are more interesting. The ground pattern of the topside of the cliff is natural looking and varied.

In the new one, the trees are dull. The pattern on the ground is dense, arbitrary, and creates a distracting pattern upon its repeat. The dense, round pattern used for the cliff wall makes it look like a flat river of pebbles, which in turn makes the ladder look like a bridge. I would have also never had guessed there was snow had I not seen the original.


Chpexo

#1210
Here's my edits, what do you think?:

After

Before


M_Tee this is what you want, right?


syntax error

I assume M-Tee is missing the F-16 Jet between the bones.

M-Tee

Now it looks like snow, but you've thrown away all of the detail in the buildings and the pebble river just looks like an orange pebble river, so sorry. not really. I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know what graphics you have done and which ones Lugia's done. I only recently realized that half of the images are from the Chinese version (to show old and new) and that's when I realized I liked the old ones more.

Quote from: Chpexo on April 14, 2013, 03:16:04 AM
Here's my edits, what do you think?:

After

Before


The floor looks less like television static, so that's a start. When you have black outlines on your character, it's wise to minimize the amount of black on the walking surface. But now I've no idea what the floor should be. The chinese one used dots and lines of grey sporadically, it makes it look like weathered, old stone. Also, I see now that the water and floor share the same palette at the expense of the shadows on the water (replaced with black dithers). I would definitely not go with that purple and cyan water though. Looks like ectoplasm or something. I would change the white in the palette to "32" and leave the grey as is. The NES palette doesn't have a subtle enough range of colors to push things like that.



Also, dunno who made the sprites or how much is welcome in terms of advice, but there's some awkward things going on. His hair and eye line up to make a "cross" shaped eye in the frame shown here. The belt buckle looks like a belly shirt, his suspenders look more like a bolero jacket, and it looks like he's walking with one foot in front of the other, like a model on a catwalk.

The main thing though, if you're going to use a separate palette for the head, why not get some use out of it, give him a skin tone that  could work as highlights in the hair and use the hair tone as shadows on the face?


Here's a quick throw-together I did using a narrower version of my bomberman sprite as the basis. This is mainly just to illustrate the idea with his head.




Terr

#1213
Quote from: M_tee on April 14, 2013, 02:23:09 AMIn the new one, the trees are dull. The pattern on the ground is dense [deserticolous pattern], arbitrary, and creates a distracting pattern upon its repeat. The dense, round pattern used for the cliff wall makes it look like a flat river of pebbles, which in turn makes the ladder look like a bridge. I would have also never had guessed there was snow had I not seen the original.

What you wrote above is exactly what I meant.

Quote from: Chpexo on April 14, 2013, 03:16:04 AM
M_Tee this is what you want, right?

Your ground is better than earlier but I think you should do something like put the original NES clff texture (or any new cliff tiles) with "shadows" on the "creek" pattern, just like is shown below.

Spoiler
Quote
[close]

BTW, this kind of feedback -- like help from M_tee and Chpexo -- is either really needed and useful for this project, so do not hesitate post your various (optimistic or critical) opinions. I bet it would help make this project a way batter than without yours comments.

Pikachumanson

I dIsagree abOut the Cloud sprite. I think its well done. Especially the hair.

Chpexo

#1215
Quote from: M_tee on April 14, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
The floor looks less like television static, so that's a start. When you have black outlines on your character, it's wise to minimize the amount of black on the walking surface. But now I've no idea what the floor should be. The chinese one used dots and lines of grey sporadically, it makes it look like weathered, old stone. Also, I see now that the water and floor share the same palette at the expense of the shadows on the water (replaced with black dithers). I would definitely not go with that purple and cyan water though. Looks like ectoplasm or something. I would change the white in the palette to "32" and leave the grey as is. The NES palette doesn't have a subtle enough range of colors to push things like that.

Well, in the original Final Fantasy VII the water is purple.

Also, I like the purple on cyan. I am aware it looks weird, but that was what I was going for. The color combination sets "another world" environment and has a mystifying mood to it, kind of like death itself. Hence, the purple relates very well to the environment.

I have this feeling you don't like the stairs. Here's an edit
Notice how it looks like "weathered, old stone" now.

I was conservative on editing the stone since I was doing mockups and don't have the patch Lugia2009 has. I just removed the black in MS paint. I have edited a map before for this hack as a demonstration for Lugia2009. It's A LOT of work so please keep that in mind. Lugia right now I believe is map editing with a hex editor so it is easy to get very lost in the process.

Quote from: M_tee on April 14, 2013, 08:58:15 AMand it looks like he's walking with one foot in front of the other, like a model on a catwalk.

Do you play a lot of NES games? The NES is restricted to a certain amount of graphics so many do that... A LOT and results in many games having choppy walking animations

In this NES game, it is even more restricted. This game restricts you to display a lot less than a standard game would allow (I could explain but I don't feel like it). The original game had the "catwalk" walking so the hack will have catwalk walking as well.


Also Lugia2009, it would help a lot posting by posting the latest patch so I can do so a lot more constructive edits instead of doing mediocre edits on MS paint.




I don't like this edit. Cloud looks like some 10 year old kid. (And why does Cloud have BLUSH!?!). The style isn't even right for this game. The head placement looks really awkward and makes it look like cloud has no neck And he looks like he's on a catwalk, ironically.

My version:


Vanya

I don't think he meant that the animation looks like a catwalk model, but rather the graphic's pointy feet pointing feet are what makes Cloud look like a catwalk model.

Lugia2009

QuoteAlso Lugia2009, it would help a lot posting by posting the latest patch so I can do so a lot more constructive edits instead of doing mediocre edits on MS paint.

I posted a new patch on the front page yesterday.

QuoteHere's a quick throw-together I did using a narrower version of my bomberman sprite as the basis. This is mainly just to illustrate the idea with his head.


@M_Tee I understand what your saying about the sprite, but I like the version on the right better.  It's more detailed.




@Chpexo, I really like what you did to this version of the map.  It does give it a kind of otherworldly feel.  I also like the pillars rising from the water and the central area where Aerith is.


And I like this version of the stairs better.

But there is one thing, the stairs exiting out the back way were for a purpose.  In the original version, it's possible to skip the events in the city of the ancients and head to icicle inn.  I wanted to make sure it's no longer possible to go through this area without triggering those events.





Perhaps another color can be used instead of the white, maybe change the 27 color to 38.  The ground would be lighter without appearing as snow.


Some of these maps are difficult to work with since many of the palettes have to work together with each other.  And since some areas are so detailed, I have to find a way for the colors to add to the detail while also blending into the other parts of the map.


I'll use this as an example of things I try to avoid:



Midna

Quote from: Lugia2009 on April 13, 2013, 05:06:18 PM
Aerith's Death (New Version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpyIZdTeik

I don't mean to complain, but the music in this video is really high-pitched and obnoxious sounding. About an octave deeper would sound a lot better, to be frank.

M-Tee

#1219
Quote from: Chpexo on April 14, 2013, 02:03:41 PM
Well, in the original Final Fantasy VII the water is purple.


Do you play a lot of NES games? The NES is restricted to a certain amount of graphics so many do that... A LOT and results in many games having choppy walking animations

Spoiler
[close]

I don't like this edit. Cloud looks like some 10 year old kid. (And why does Cloud have BLUSH!?!).

Welp, I've never played ff7 (except a fair amount of time in the golden saucer on a friend's save), so I wouldn't know that it has purple water. If that's the case, stick with it.

As for the catwalk, you did completely miss my point. Vanya caught it. The feet both taper inward towards the bottom. Why would both feet taper inward? If you were walking with one foot awkwardly in front of the other.

As for my sprite looking "too cute," I tend to lean toward cute in personal preference for NES/GBC/NGPC graphics anyway.

However, I wasn't  pitching it for use in the game. I was only putting it together to illustrate the possible use of shading within the hair and face. On top of that, I always saw the mass popularity of ff7 as being the beginning of the popularity of the effeminate anime hero art style as opposed to the masculine, buff hero that was dominant in mainstream games in the west prior, so seeing things like the strong, forceful FF1 battle stance being used for such a frail-looking hero seems odd to me.

Anyways, just thought I'd point out some places where I thought the graphics were looking, for lack of a better word, non-commercial. In terms of the artstyle, sprites and backgrounds, I feel that an attempt to put in too much detail at the pixel level is overall a drawback for visual clarity. But it's Lugia's project, so if the preference is to do so, no worries.