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Author Topic: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again  (Read 58537 times)

TimeSpaceMage

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #120 on: March 10, 2011, 09:48:18 am »
FF7 had a good share of steals, especially at the beginning of the game (Hardedge/Carbon Bangle in the Shinra building, Striking Staff/Ghost Hands in the Train Graveyard).

EDIT: Started playing this and it's really cool so far (just got past Figaro, bedtime). There are a hell of a lot of comma splices in the text, though. I got a kick out of the jumping sound effects, and noticed two different welcomes when starting the game (was trying to remember the old "start the game without watching the intro" trick). Also good God did poison do a lot of damage to the Magitek Armors.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:10:50 pm by TimeSpaceMage »
Tinker: "You're going to go where no one has gone before!"
Hero: "We've actually been there before."
Tinker: "Oh. Well, you've never been shot out of a turret, with only a minimal chance of survival!"
Hero: "That's true."

Gamesoul Master

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2011, 10:29:40 am »
Yeah, when I first used Edgar in this hack, I tried Auto-Crossbow and after seeing how badly it failed overall compared to vanilla, I was thinking that maybe Edgar would be a bad choice to play. Then I used BioBlaster and had renewed respect for him, considering just about any long battle can be cut short by using that and watching the huge Poison damage eat away at just about everything... lol. I wouldn't be surprised if that were one of those things that will probably be toned down a little by final release though. Which I wouldn't mind, considering how powerful it is compared to just about everything else. And if not, I know who will definitely end up in any grinding parties I have to make... XD

Edit: I gotta say, I do love the Auction House now that it's been revamped. The stuff does get pretty expensive, but a few of the items are well-worth the price I'd say. But yes, definitely something going on with what it says you get versus what you actually get. And the guy still calls the tool "Flash" (I was glad to see I actually *got* the right tool at least... lol).

Edit 2: Upper left house in Thamasa is labeled as "Cave on the Veldt" when you enter. And I gotta tell you... going to the armor shop in Thamasa is just all too tempting, especially if you scroll through that list long enough to find some really interesting 0 gil stuff. It also showed off some stuff that you guys have "removed" from play, like Crystal Mail, Muscle Belt, etc. I guess now we know what happens when you enter a shop that has zero items listed for it... lol.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 02:57:51 pm by Gamesoul Master »

Panzer88

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2011, 04:51:36 pm »
yes I'm glad that Autocrossbow has changed. In vanilla FF6 for a good chunk of the game autocrossbow pretty much replaced attack for Edgar.

I'm glad that his abilities offer more diversity now :)

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Imzogelmo

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2011, 11:15:16 am »
The poison damage is something we've discussed toning down. In the hack as it is, it's pretty strong. Of course, that is true if used against you, too. One thing we may do is have monsters be intelligent enough to use an Antidote on themselves. But we also may tweak the damage formula for it a bit. We're not really sure what we'll end up doing on that.


Gogo13

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2011, 06:03:14 pm »
I'd go with the antidote battle script, because changing damage formulas changes all the other expectations related to that damage.  What's more, if poison shares the formula with regen, that complicates things further.  However, if poison is doing more damage than heroes should at level 50, I would change the formula to save the entire damage curve.

syntax error

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #125 on: March 13, 2011, 06:52:09 pm »
125 comments. :thumbsup:

Gamesoul Master

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2011, 08:19:40 pm »
Or if nothing else, is there maybe a way of making poison more difficult to stick? Thinking on it, it seems like there's no /random involved for deciding whether a status ailment sticks, short of it being all or nothing if the mob is immune to it. Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use. I like the fact that they can run out of MP, and it might seem a bit uneven if they can run out of MP but still manage to somehow use a hundred Antidotes.

The only upside to that is that it would waste one of their turns, which could potentially be useful, strategically. How would that work on mobs like Ted Woolsey, who has a predetermined list of attacks that he uses over and over again? Would it reset to the start of the set, or would they continue where they left off? If battle scripts are written anything like a program (like C++ for instance), would there be checks in-between each attack in the set for status ailments they can cure themselves of, or would it be a check done at the start of each attack in the sequence (effectively nullifying that attack in the set)?

Allowing use of Antidotes seems like it could be a little more trouble for certain fights than it might be worth, if you have a set idea of how the mob should be acting. Whereas tweaking the damage calculation formula for poison can be as simple as changing a single number in the equation (depending on how it's written of course). In my opinion, it'd seem like at least a 25-33% reduction in poison damage might be fair, as long as it's not linked to things like Regen status (which doesn't regenerate a whole lot of HP in the first place, and would be rendered nearly useless to the player if lowered at all).

Edit: Just finished the demo. Was kinda sad that it ended where it did, and was more sad that it just sort-of went blank after the first box of dialog saying it was over. It didn't even finish its own sentence (it seemed like it was going to give a web address or something for some kind of contact information, but then it just sort-of stopped at "at"). I kinda thought I'd be able to save and see what that ????? in the main menu was all about... lol.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 08:35:19 pm by Gamesoul Master »

Gogo13

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2011, 10:44:29 pm »
Antidote can be scripted to be used whenever poisoned or on a per turn basis or otherwise.

A problem is that your 25-33% reduction might be fair now, but poison is something that should be useful throughout the entire game. Also, like I mentioned before, I'm near positive that poison *originally* uses the same formula as regen, but with damage incremented over time, so changing regen must also be considered.

Another solution would be to look at all of the monster formations, and make sure half of the monster types of each formation are immune/absorb poison.

Lenophis

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #128 on: March 14, 2011, 12:43:51 pm »
Or if nothing else, is there maybe a way of making poison more difficult to stick?
This is something I've wanted to address since day 1. I wanted to go on a more FF9ish route and give ailments their own chance of hitting on top of normal spell damage. As it is right now, both are tied to each other, if spell misses, ailment misses, and vice versa. I can think of no practical way to implement a change without rewriting a bunch of stuff though. :'(

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Edit: Just finished the demo. Was kinda sad that it ended where it did, and was more sad that it just sort-of went blank after the first box of dialog saying it was over. It didn't even finish its own sentence (it seemed like it was going to give a web address or something for some kind of contact information, but then it just sort-of stopped at "at").
Now that is strange. The string is in the rom, but a glance shows that the "\" character isn't in, which is probably where it got hung up. Explains why nobody has been posting the issues in the place we wanted them to. :-[

Quote
I kinda thought I'd be able to save and see what that ????? in the main menu was all about... lol.
We thought about opening it up for the demo, but decided against it in the 11th hour.

As for poison, we wanted to put an emphasis on "it's deadly, do something about it!" sort of how FFX did it, but not to that extreme.

Quote
Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use.
Monsters don't have an inventory. I'm also pretty sure there isn't enough working ram to give howevermanyitemsx6 monsters an inventory (or maybe do something simpler, and give each formation an inventory).


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Gogo13

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #129 on: March 14, 2011, 06:58:29 pm »
But it would be easier to have the monsters cast the spell antidote on themselves, instead of the item problem.

Deathlike2

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #130 on: March 14, 2011, 07:53:42 pm »
* Deathlike2 summons Magic Pot!

* Deathlike2 summons Nohrabbit!

* Deathlike2 casts Meltdown!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Is it really worth giving monsters an actual spell.. when there are already options available? Maybe Umaro's "Green Cherry" should be revised...
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Lenophis

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #131 on: March 14, 2011, 08:05:05 pm »
But it would be easier to have the monsters cast the spell antidote on themselves, instead of the item problem.
That spell no longer exists.

Is it really worth giving monsters an actual spell.. when there are already options available? Maybe Umaro's "Green Cherry" should be revised...
The Green Cherry did nothing special on Umaro. Really, it could have been any item, but the AI just sets the hidden status all the same anyway.


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Gamesoul Master

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #132 on: March 14, 2011, 10:22:49 pm »
Having mobs be intelligent enough to use an Antidote seems like a decent idea, but also very frustrating if there's no limit on how many they can use.
Monsters don't have an inventory. I'm also pretty sure there isn't enough working ram to give howevermanyitemsx6 monsters an inventory (or maybe do something simpler, and give each formation an inventory).
I wasn't actually expecting them to have an inventory (I figured they didn't anyway), but couldn't you add in a few lines for a counter/check system? For instance (as a really rough example)...

Code: [Select]
if ( (item < 10) && (poison > 0) )
{
    Monster1.UseAntidote ();
    item++;
}
Obviously a few initialization lines amongst other things would have to be added, but would that be outside the scope of the game's capability? Or... if you want there to be a wider scope than just poison but can't spare the space for coding each one, just have them use a Remedy if there's *any* status ailment that it can heal, which covers at least half of them, right? Sorry if these are stupid questions, but as I said before, I'm not sure how the game's code is written, so I'm using the programming experience I *do* have to think this through :)

And anyway, I don't mind how poison damage is to players. It's honestly not that bad. Most of the time, I let my characters stay poisoned until the battle is over and I just cure them then, because there's no real need to cure them right away in battle. But the monsters... poison hits them like a 10 ton truck. The whole "it's deadly, do something about it!" mentality never even remotely crossed my mind, whereas some monsters died from the poison before they could even have a chance to think that... lol.

Kiyoshi Aman

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2011, 05:49:01 am »
It's not nearly as simple as that, I don't think. Nice try, though; I wish it were that easy, too. :P

KingMike

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2011, 01:10:49 pm »
I think in most FF games, wasn't poison damage something like 5% max HP per turn (I'm sure it was about that in FF1 Origins, seems about right for others), but FFX bumped it up to 25%.
And yet I recall in FFX it was about the only way to kill human enemies (who would automatically use Hi-Potion after being hit, but weren't smart enough to heal poison damage). :P
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Lilinda

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2011, 01:55:26 pm »
I never used Poison damage in FFX and killed everything that came my way.
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Deathlike2

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2011, 05:10:23 pm »
I think you need some sort of progressive system for Poison... but that undoubtedly require some work.

FF4+FF5 had the right idea on poison...

FF4's damage dealt was maxHP/8, where the frequency of poison damage was dependent on the amount of HP the target had. Large HP targets took far longer to die by poison.

FF5's damage dealt was maxHP/16, where the frequency of poison damage is the same as FF4.

FF6's poison damage is calculated differently... where the length of time increases poison damage. However, the frequency of poison damage is constant.

I'm not sure how much this formula has changed in the hack, but if something like reducing the poison damage scaling and/or increasing the delay before the poison damage is applied (either by maxHP or by some formula where the max damage takes 2-3x longer than the first poison damage), that should probably balance this out.
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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #137 on: March 16, 2011, 07:48:30 pm »
Playing through slowly and have a few errors to report.

Some of the paintings in the mansion near the auction house display weirdly they have the characters name then the description ex. LockeThis looks like an old suit of armor

The clock to get the chainsaw is broken nothing I do will open it and the second menu there are invisible options that can crash the game.

The armor shop where you get Strago and Relm has invisible options and you can buy things such as Dry Ethers and Crystal Swords for outlandish prices, once you buy them the number you buy Is not equivalent to what you get Ex 99 Dry Ethers got me 18 (Yes I flew here ahead of time to check the equipment as the demo ends before going to town to get Strago and Relm)

Almost every Auction item in the WOB so far is broken; the Shadow Blade, and Golem Magicite work, the other items you get do not have descriptions, are unusable, or do absolutely nothing at all.

In the world of balance on your way to the sealed door if you confuse the Lich enemy and he uses the attack that inflicts Zombie status on himself, he will die, yet eventhough the Lich is dead and not there he will continue you attack your party as if he is.

These are some of the major things that cost me both money and I was killed by a dead invisible Lich.

I don't know if this counts as a glitch or not, but It has to be addressed.  Ted Woosley is far to easy to be any kind of super boss.  He attacks Sabin and Terra almost exclusively with powerful attacks, never attacked Locke once with any one hit kill attack, and 4 reflect rings pretty much nullifies his difficulty, hell even 2 reflect rings.  I spammed Dehabilitator, and sat in the back row while he practically killed himself, and just used Locke to revive, as Ted never attacked Locke with anything save for a pitiful normal attack.  I am unsure if he was glitched as to why he only attacked Terra and Sabin, or if his AI is just weak.

Having fun with the wonderful hack, I will let you know if I spot anything else in the WOB.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 09:15:51 pm by Rinpoo »

Lenophis

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #138 on: March 16, 2011, 11:23:47 pm »
and 4 reflect rings
Well, if you're going to cheat, I can't really take what you say seriously.


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Rinpoo

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Re: ROM Hacks: Pandora's Box sees the light of day once again
« Reply #139 on: March 17, 2011, 12:40:42 am »
and 4 reflect rings
Well, if you're going to cheat, I can't really take what you say seriously.

Then, don't I merely was saying all forms of reflect make him a joke as he only attacks two characters other than that 1 tri element attack on the party which is not only predictable, but easily avoided.  I do not see how its cheating when it is an item you yourself left in the game both at an outlandish price in one town and the auction house gives them out fairly often as well.