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Author Topic: ROM Hacks: New Final Fantasy VI Hack Includes Harder Gameplay & Comprehensive Changes  (Read 32859 times)

Gogo13

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I'm definitely trying to make it take more time, because it was only a 40 hour game before, and battles were mostly one minute or less.  Not much strategy/tactics at all was used because you could easily win each fight.  Battles should take 2-5 minutes now, and some bosses take 30 minutes, but for any combination of reasons, and not just increased HP/armor.

KingMike

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I can't even get this to play.
It says to use FF3 US 1.1. Header or no header? Tried both and it seems to just freeze. Tried ZSNES 1.51, bsnes 0.72, SNES9x 1.51, 1.52.

Wait, 2-5 minutes for normal battles and up to 30 minute boss battles?
It sounds like that estimate is with proper equipment (as it sounds like having improper equipment with lead to having one's ass kicked very quickly).
If so, that sounds pretty drawn out, leading to battles being very repetitive when done right. Making it too long can just lead to the player getting bored and quitting.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 05:58:33 pm by KingMike »
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Gogo13

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Headered, and I use Znes 1.51.  When does it freeze?  I noticed that the original ROM has a good checksum, but my version has a bad one, maybe this is the problem for you?  I don't know enough about roms to provide any good guidance here.

Edit:  I tried patching it with IpsXP also, and there is a 2 or 3kb difference, so maybe it will work better with some people.  Here is a Divshare link for that version: (removed)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 08:45:44 pm by Gogo13 »

davidvinc

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Well, I WAS going to try out this hack just to see what all the fuss was about but after he said that it takes an hour just to gain one level... No thanks. That was excusable in Dragon Warrior because you only had one party member, the game was beatable at level 20, and it was the first RPG of its kind. Nowadays, it is completely inexcusable, especially in an RPG with 14 characters and no shared experience.

If you want to make it tougher I would suggest taking out the level bonuses from espers, make physical damage noticeably stronger for fighters like Cyan and Sabin, and also reduce the power of tools as well as certain magic spells - I wouldn't just artifically pad the game and make it so that you needed grind for literally hours just to gain a level. That's crazy.

Gogo13

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It's not tougher because of padding, it's tougher because of strategy.  The length is independent of this.  I made it longer because I personally found the short battles in FF6 to be a bit ridiculous.  How can there be much strategy in a game where 3 hits kills a monster?  Now each monster dies in about  8 hits, do you really think that's a big deal?  That's only two rounds of a 4 member party....Imagine a game of chess that lasted 3 to 9 turns every time.  There's not enough room for push and pull.

What I exactly don't want to do is to take out beautiful strategic options such as esper level bonuses, in order to make the game harder.  And I'm not padding the game just for the sake of making it longer, but to make the fights seem less ludicrously easy as they were in the first.  20 fights per level just doesn't sound crazy to me, and I don't think taking 1 hour per level is crazy either, but I'd love to hear some more opinions on that.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 02:01:40 pm by Gogo13 »

Kiyoshi Aman

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...I'm sorry, but taking an hour to gain one level before you even reach the Returners Hideout is ridiculously retarded. There's just no excuse for that, and there wasn't even as far back as 1990.

Moreover, random encounters are supposed to be easy (but not so easy that it's like a hot knife through butter). Games are supposed to be fun to play—how is forced tedium fun? It's easy to say you want a game like this, but I doubt you would play it if you didn't know the ins and outs.

Deathlike2

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What I exactly don't want to do is to take out beautiful strategic options such as esper level bonuses, in order to make the game harder.  And I'm not padding the game just for the sake of making it longer, but to make the fights seem less ludicrously easy as they were in the first.  20 fights per level just doesn't sound crazy to me, and I don't think taking 1 hour per level is crazy either, but I'd love to hear some more opinions on that.

20 fights per level sounds OK... but that doesn't/shouldn't usually translate into an hour. It should actually take less than 15-20 minutes to gain a level though (1-2 min/fight sounds about right to me).

Just a thought, but if you're trying to make levels difficult to gain, you have to give some way for stronger equipment/skills or better item drops to make up for it. It doesn't quite sound like something you're giving much if at all.

Edit: In fact... it almost sounds like you haven't actually done a complete run through of your own hack.. which is playing it once through. Making "paper" changes to make a hack doesn't give you the proper context of testing.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:04:00 pm by Deathlike2 »
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Gogo13

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Moreover, random encounters are supposed to be easy (but not so easy that it's like a hot knife through butter). Games are supposed to be fun to play—how is forced tedium fun? It's easy to say you want a game like this, but I doubt you would play it if you didn't know the ins and outs.

Because this is also a difficulty mod, the fights are not supposed to be easy.  I hope I've been making that clear from the outset.

I'd really like to address opinions from people who've played my game, because I don't think I'm getting arguments from people looking for a difficulty mod, and sadly I don't have enough time to argue with everyone (or any time at all, for that matter).
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 10:42:11 pm by Gogo13 »

Kiyoshi Aman

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Frankly, I haven't bothered to play it yet because most challenge hacks in general seem to think forced tedium is okay (it's not), or that "only one true path to victory" is acceptable (it isn't). That's not what challenge is about, not by a long shot. Balancing is a Hard Thing™, and good challenge hacks tweak the balance carefully, so that while it's overall more challenging than the original game, the player still has a variety of ways to win.

In fact, I would probably refer to Pandora's Box (I think the first demo is still available, and a yellow chocobo told me the other day another one's going to be coming out eventually) as an example of the right way to make a challenge hack.

Imzogelmo

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Hopefully, "One True Path to Victory" will not be the case for Pandora's Box, but demos are made to point out such issues.

Gogo13

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Nice TM.  I agree on both challenge and balance, and that's what I was going for.

Kiyoshi Aman

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Right, then. The point I was trying to make is that you have not accomplished this, at all.

BRPXQZME

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A level an hour is laughably fast in some games.

The level and story progression of a normal JRPG isn’t the only way to do it. And easy random encounters are very tedious... ever notice how you can avoid or autowin battles in certain RPGs? Those are good things. You shouldn’t have to wait for a battle to load, mash A a few times, and wait for the battle to end—that is tedious.
we are in a horrible and deadly danger

Gogo13

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Kiyoshi, you haven't played my game, and I wish you the best of luck in finding a game that isn't a difficulty mod, and then arguing with all of the other authors before ever playing their game, and acting as if you know exactly what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 07:08:30 am by Gogo13 »

Piggy Chan!

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This hack is way too hard for *me* to complete, I fear, but from the perspective of someone who's made their own, there's a lot to respect from what I've seen, in the way you've managed to thoroughly transform each character and their roles. My approach was a lot more conservative, and I don't really regret it, but seeing some of the ideas here is a little inspiring, and I wish I had thought just a little bit more outside of the box.

Gogo13

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Great to hear from you as always, Piggy Chan.  There was more I wish I could have done with this version as well, but only found those ideas too far into the project.  If you come across any specifics on why it's too hard just let me know.

Deathlike2

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I'll see about testing it, but I'll probably be bored way before the Tower of Fanatics (that's where my interest in any FF3/6 hack goes to die).

Edit:
If you're gonna make an M-tek skill not be useful at all... give hints it isn't gonna work. That's a huge putoff.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 10:18:49 am by Deathlike2 »
FF4 Research Continues
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Gogo13

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Which skill doesn't work?  From what I remember, they work too well, but it's the beginning so I let it slide.

Deathlike2

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When X-fer is an instant game-over, I don't want to know what's easy.
FF4 Research Continues
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack

Gogo13

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Yeah haha, Terra's super powerful when she's in a gundam, forgot about that.  But that does make it very easy in the intro scene.