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Author Topic: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.4 & Source Code Released)  (Read 486810 times)

Vanya

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #120 on: August 12, 2010, 09:56:43 am »
What about the retcon in the PSP version of MMX?
It specifically shows that Dr.Cain is killed by Sigma before MMX2.
Obviously this could be used as a reasoning for Dr.Cain appearing as a hologram, but at the same time we should remember that Dr.Cain wasn't a cyberneticist, he was an archeologist. Which is probably why his Reploids are so inferior to X & Zero. The question is would Dr.Cain have been able to 'hack' his way into Dr.Light's Capsule system and did he even know about them?

Quote from: TMMU Wiki
Character Analysis:
Cain from the beginning has been wrought with guilt over the plauge   he unleashed on the world through his zealousness for Reploid   technology. He considers Sigma, Doppler,   and Repliforce to be his greatest failures, and his decision to hold   heavy influence over the Maverick Hunters may have been spurred on by the guilt he felt over the Mavericks being his fault. Though Cain is an   "all-around" scientist and has knowledge of robotics like Light, he had   to fill in the blanks of programming that he couldn't understand in   Light's designs. This, along with the fact that none of his creations   underwent the 30 year diagnostic period that X did, is possibly the   reason for both his overwhelming sense of guilt as well as why his   creations tend to succumb the Virus, whereas X does not. 

 
Quote from: TMMU Wiki
Future Appearances:
Cain was missing mostly from Mega Man X4, save for the instruction manual and manga, and completely absent from Mega Man X5 onward. Signas, Alia, and Douglas (while he was around) now fill the position he used to do for the Hunters (and now even Pallette and Layer), and he's not necessary to it anymore. 
In addition, Mega Man: Maverick Hunter X seemingly implied that Cain met his demise early, when Sigma began his revolt.  Of course, the lack of a Maverick Hunter X2 makes his fate a little less than certain for some. Between the lack of said sequel and his absence from most of the latter-day X games, it seems we may have seen the last we're going to see of Dr. Cain, at least for a while. 
 
  •    Cain Labs was a term coined by Capcom of America, and doesn't hold any   bearing on official X Series canon. If this term is used, remember it is   only mentioned in the localized version of X4

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #121 on: August 12, 2010, 10:19:01 am »
Dr. Cain is the one who gives you missions and repairs Zero in MMX2.
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_Man_X2_Script
Pretty chatty and able for a dead man.
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Zero
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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #122 on: August 12, 2010, 10:36:36 am »
Yea this is what's so confusing.  If we go the Maverick Hunter X way, which I sort of what to incorporate some storyline points there, we're going to have to re-do the entire scripting of the game and remove Dr. Cain in general.  That would still leave Dr. Light to be the choice as the proof above that Dr. Cain isn't exactly the greatest robotics scientist person.  I could see him making a capsule though, maybe he was able to study one somehow or wherever.  It's hard to choose between who will give the capsule upgrade to Zero.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #123 on: August 12, 2010, 10:41:45 am »
Dr. Cain did make Sigma though, which is cool.
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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #124 on: August 12, 2010, 12:15:25 pm »
Just a small update.  I had to edit some code of the capsules real quick to allow more dialogue.  Before, Dr. Light would ALWAYS talk no matter what even if someone else was speaking.  Moved the code to empty space, checks if the value at 61F50 is 02, if it is, he won't speak.  If we want X to talk in dialogue, it'd be 02, same with Zero.  So now we're able to freely add dialogue with X/Zero/Dr. Light without any issues.

Edit: Just so people know, I'm also planning to add dialogue to bosses.  So you'll have a short conversation with Blizzard Buffalo, Blast Hornet, etc..also more dialogue with Bit/Byte/Doppler.  Probably some dialogue with Mac as well.  I'll also be trying to switch up some enemies and enemy AI soon to make the game more difficult.  Then after, I'll find how the life is loaded and see if I can make an extended life bar with a different palette so we can make enemies much harder and have bosses to have more life so you'll have to be strategic a bit as well.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #125 on: August 12, 2010, 12:21:32 pm »
I'll also be trying to switch up some enemies and enemy AI soon to make the game more difficult.  Then after, I'll find how the life is loaded and see if I can make an extended life bar with a different palette so we can make enemies much harder and have bosses to have more life so you'll have to be strategic a bit as well.

I'm actually opposed to this. I thought the whole point of this was to make the game fully playable with Zero, not to make it harder.

andrewclunn

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #126 on: August 12, 2010, 12:30:35 pm »
Though I'm somewhat neutral on the harder part in general, there is no reason to give those stupid wall clamps (The lings that extend from floor to ceiling and block your path) any more life than they already have (They're just an annoyance).  Also, Sigma is definitely hard enough in MMX3.  Seriously, no need to bump his life.  He's already a beast.

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #127 on: August 12, 2010, 12:32:34 pm »
I agree with GZ and Andrewclunn.
There is no point in changing difficulty at all if Zero will end up slightly stronger than X (as he should)
but still balanced. If anything the difficulty hack should be a separate, optional patch for those that want such thing.

justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #128 on: August 12, 2010, 01:00:48 pm »
Alrighty, that's fine then.  I won't do that.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

metallicat65

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #129 on: August 12, 2010, 01:05:39 pm »
Just a small update.  I had to edit some code of the capsules real quick to allow more dialogue.  Before, Dr. Light would ALWAYS talk no matter what even if someone else was speaking.  Moved the code to empty space, checks if the value at 61F50 is 02, if it is, he won't speak.  If we want X to talk in dialogue, it'd be 02, same with Zero.  So now we're able to freely add dialogue with X/Zero/Dr. Light without any issues.

Edit: Just so people know, I'm also planning to add dialogue to bosses.  So you'll have a short conversation with Blizzard Buffalo, Blast Hornet, etc..also more dialogue with Bit/Byte/Doppler.  Probably some dialogue with Mac as well.  I'll also be trying to switch up some enemies and enemy AI soon to make the game more difficult.  Then after, I'll find how the life is loaded and see if I can make an extended life bar with a different palette so we can make enemies much harder and have bosses to have more life so you'll have to be strategic a bit as well.

I was assuming you were going to keep the conversations one sided during capsule dialogues just to keep things simple.  Allowing X and Zero to talk during theses times is going to make the game way more interesting and fun.

Actually it's pretty well established why Zero wouldn't have been around in X1 to obtain the armor upgrades. Immediately after the Intro level X and Zero split up. Zero tells X that while X is hunting down the mavericks he would be scouting Sigma's HQ for information.

Yeah but just because they split up doesn't mean that Light couldn't have given capsule upgrades to Zero while he was scouting Sigma's HQ...surely he would run into mavericks on the way.

Might be best to set the game in an alternate universe, one where Dr. Cain learned from his mistakes with the reploids, but was already fired from the company producing them (to explain why there still are mavericks), and is thus better able to figure Zero out. I still really do not like the idea of Light giving him armor upgrades. The capsules made by Dr. Light were made purely to oversee 30 year boot-up, and debugging sequence X had to undergo before being activated, as Dr. Light was afraid that X would run wild and do harm to humans as he was the first robot that did not have to follow the three rules of robotics.

I personally like the idea of alternate universes (this ones not bad either). Only problem is that there may be too many ideas to choose from because we can come up with almost anything. If we all agreed on something that was badass, then it would work.
As a side note, should we be concerned with resolving of what we think could or should happen? It's possible that we may leave more holes than are already there.  What I mean to say is...should we try and resolve holes that Capcom has placed with dialogue (or a beginning sequence or something) or should we try and use the Capcom method of leaving holes (not bad ones obviously) by maybe "leaving something that to be desired" so to speak, like a cliffhanger ending or something.

It makes sense that Dr. Light built into those capsules a way to modify X on the fly or even had already produced his upgrades with the intent on slowly giving them to X as he proves his worth to humanity. I know if I made a robot that might go on a killing spree and take out a city I wouldn't fit him with his best armor and weapons right out the gate. Although should you do decide to use Dr. Light here's what I came up with.

Idk about already producing the upgrades before hand.  The upgrades are usually game specific, how would Light know what to give him in the future.  Making the capsules a way to modify X on the fly can be an addendum to the AI idea.

DR.LIGHT - What's this? You are not X, this shouldn't have happened. A malfunction maybe?
ZERO - Your face, it seems almost familiar somehow... I kno--
DR.LIGHT - !!! Oh dear, that signature, you finally managed it... Wily. Did you ever learn, I wonder.
ZERO - You know me?
DR.LIGHT - Oh, yes, almost certainly. It seems like you've had a rough life. Fractures on the casing, poor soldering, even a mixing of alloys. I wonder what you've been through. But I'm getting ahead of myself, tell me, have you encountered a robot named X?
ZERO - You know X too!? Who are you!? Tell me now!
DR.LIGHT - Yes, that seems about right. That anger seems forced though, never learned after all Wily?
ZERO - Wily? You keep saying that. Who are you!? Who is Wily!? If you are trying to harm X I won't allow it!
DR.LIGHT - Do not worry, uh...
ZERO - Zero.
DR.LIGHT- Zero. I am Dr. Light. I created X. I'm starting to get the picture. Ah, and just in time.
ZERO - You CREATED X? gah.... my head, it... who. Wily?
DR.LIGHT - Oh dear... Zero, pay attention. I've scanned your systems and I can see a lot of room for improvement. I can repair you to full functionality, if you would do me but one favor.
ZERO - ...
DR.LIGHT - Keep watch over X. I'll tell you more about yourself in return, or at least all that I can.
ZERO - ... I promise.
DR.LIGHT - Fantastic! [insert upgrade 1 here]

It's a rough idea so far, but basically I see that as a way for Light to ensure that Zero is more stable and under his control. When Light scans Zero he sees something in him, a signature design piece that all of Wily's creations have had in the past but at the same time his programming is like X's. It has free will. This also builds up the foundation for Zero's dreams about Wily. I don't think Wily would trust Zero totally though, and what information Zero in check. To possibly even paint Wily as a hero to allow Zero to act more noble. It's a work in progress, hopefully you can use Dr. Cain.

I'm diggin this dialogue. I feel Zero may inquire more about Wiley though and/or by mentioning Wiley may trigger some berserko Zero because in MMX4 he says (after the dream) "Ahhh, that same dream again" (or something to that nature) implying that he couldv'e been having these dreams all along and we just now found out about them (while playing X4). I really do like the dialogue though

Cain may have rebuilt Zero, but he didn't create him. Cain would work, but didn't Surges (MMX2) give Zero his light saber? (url=http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page, Thanks Vanya! ;)) You definitely don't wanna put Surges goofy ass in there. Like I said, Cain would work...but it's not on the same...level...as Dr. Light is to X. If you put Wiley in there......why would Wiley want to improve Zero if he's helping X. His capsules would have to not be aware of whats going on to give Zero upgrades.  I think that Wiley knew the possibility that Zero could be good, but tried to instill evil into him to sway him.
"Now let it work.  Mischief, thou art afoot.  Take thou what coarse thou wilt."

--Mark Antony, Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #130 on: August 12, 2010, 01:10:32 pm »
I would actually love to see some more dynamic AI. There are a lot of hugely exploitable quirks with bosses in this game. There are also some invincibility period exploits. Most notable Volt Catfish and Toxic Seahorse... those fights are just sad when you know how to exploit them. At the very least I'd like to see a boss not get stuck in a loop just because a certain attack hit it, or you upward airdash and cause a boss to ram the wall BEHIND  it.
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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2010, 01:13:15 pm »
The only issue right now is I'm not entirely sure how to make different animations during dialogue besides speaking.  So Zero would be having memories hit him and suppose to be berserk but all you get is him standing still blinking.

@blacksniper:  That's exactly what I want to alter the AI a bit.  Every single boss in the game excluding sigma I believe has something that can be exploited.  I want to break away from that and make the bosses more AI active and more challenging.
'We have to find some way to incorporate the general civilians in the plot.'

'We'll kill off children in the Juuban district with an infection where they cough up blood and are found hanging themselves from cherry blossom trees.'

metallicat65

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2010, 01:30:13 pm »
A simple solution to that is to reduce the recovery time for bosses.  That way nothing really gets harder, you just have to react faster or get your head blown off.  That seems like a compromise
"Now let it work.  Mischief, thou art afoot.  Take thou what coarse thou wilt."

--Mark Antony, Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare

Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #133 on: August 12, 2010, 01:50:55 pm »
I would actually love to see some more dynamic AI. There are a lot of hugely exploitable quirks with bosses in this game. There are also some invincibility period exploits. Most notable Volt Catfish and Toxic Seahorse... those fights are just sad when you know how to exploit them. At the very least I'd like to see a boss not get stuck in a loop just because a certain attack hit it, or you upward airdash and cause a boss to ram the wall BEHIND  it.

I see your point but its not really this game's fault that things work that way.
Boss attack cycles would always repeat if you hit it with the right weapons, regardless of
game, speaking of the Mega Man franchise as a whole.
My advice is taking things little by little and focus on the priorities, difficulty tweaks should come last, if at all.

blacksniper

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #134 on: August 12, 2010, 02:20:18 pm »
I suggest you watch this movie:
http://tasvideos.org/934S.html

Many of those tricks used to kill bosses in that run can be done in real time... and you think no tweaking needs to be done? Those abuses are widely known. Making the boss recovery time faster wont change the fact that this games AI is a joke, more so than any other MMX game.
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Red Soul

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #135 on: August 12, 2010, 02:26:13 pm »
I suggest you watch this movie:
http://tasvideos.org/934S.html

Many of those tricks used to kill bosses in that run can be done in real time... and you think no tweaking needs to be done? Those abuses are widely known. Making the boss recovery time faster wont change the fact that this games AI is a joke, more so than any other MMX game.

I didn't say it should be left untouched, just saying its not a priority in face of all else the hack proposes to acomplish.

Edit: hence why I said earlier the difficulty patch should be something separate. If you try to do a lot at once you can just as easily break a lot at once.

Edit 2: Setting too lofty of goals from the start doesn't bode well to any hack.

MutantBuster

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #136 on: August 12, 2010, 03:41:16 pm »
my Advice.

I like the Horizontal bars, but at the same time I don't, here's what I think you should do. Release 2 patches.

#1 X3, virtually as it was, but with the only change that you can play the entire game as Zero, and the story is slightly shifted to reflect that.

#2. X3 Super Hardcore Remix, with Horizontal Bars, and all of the Ultra Super Cool stuf, fully playable Zero, and the skys the limit.

slidelljohn

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #137 on: August 12, 2010, 04:27:04 pm »
I think you should make a few patches because some people only want the zero hack.But if you were to choose one patch,
I would redo the whole game.Add some new levels,enemies,music,AI(definitely),and make the game a lot harder.
Megaman x games are just way to easy to beat.

andrewclunn

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #138 on: August 12, 2010, 04:42:06 pm »
As far as any help, I'm really good at modifying text to have the same feel and meaning while making it fit into predefined space (it comes with text hacking.)  Though you seem to have worked around that from what you've been saying; just offering.

IrohDW

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Fully Playable Zero WIP
« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2010, 04:48:01 pm »
I'm with Justin 110% on improving the AI. I think that bosses should react to weapons the same way they did in the original megaman games. Even though they did more damage, it didn't change boss behavior in any way. Some bosses like Tunnel Rhino have poor attack patterns, which allows their attacks to  be dodged way too easily. Since so many people want to play as zero without the changes in difficulty, I agree with those that think there should be two patches.
     I disagree somewhat with john that the X games are too easy. They are only easy if you get everything the game gives you. When you beat the games without using boss weaknesses and without upgrades, the games are actually very difficult. The problem is that the upgrades make the games too easy. For example, having 4 energy tanks is extremely broken as it makes even the strongest bosses easily beatable. I think that a way to fix that is to make them restore up to 8 life per tank instead of 32 per tank. That way getting 4 energy tanks gives you 1 full life bar's worth of energy, which is much more reasonable.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 05:13:22 pm by Red X »