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Author Topic: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)  (Read 352393 times)

DannyPlaysSomeGames

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #920 on: March 23, 2019, 07:43:35 pm »
Yeah, I mentioned it to Justin3009 a while back. I believe he stated that at some point he might make it so that the life bar disappears when bosses are defeated. I think it's due to the blue palette used when the bosses explode.
The thing is, it also happens on minibosses, so the health bar suddenly disappearing then reappearing would be weird. Still a valid and good alternative. Also, shouldn't it match Zero's palette anyway? Or would that interfere with the Zero's weapon color patch?
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justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #921 on: March 24, 2019, 09:01:06 am »
Currently reading the Readme for this hack, and I'm curious as to what this means:
Quote
7.   The Golden Armor can now be collected in two manners instead of one.
   a.   The first manner is the same as the original game with all upgrades.
   b.   The second manner is based on the Chip Capsules obtained. You can now collect ALL Chip Capsules instead of picking just one. If all four are collected, go to the Golden Armor capsule like normal and you will obtain the Golden Armor! This bypasses the need for full health, all Sub-tanks and all Heart Tanks!
   c.   However, you cannot mix and match these to obtain the Golden Armor. You can go either route, but both routes don't mix to allow obtaining it.
Does this mean that I can't get all the upgrades if I were to get all the Chip Capsules if I want the Golden Armor and vice-versa?

This essentially means that instead of having to gather every single possible upgrade (IE: Sub-Tanks, Heart Tanks), you can just get the armor pieces and collect each chip at the pink capsules. You can change what chip is active by going back to the capsules, but essentially they get stored into your inventory instead of straight up disappearing.

So if you have all armor parts and all chips, you can still obtain the golden armor without having all sub-tanks or all heart tanks. (You STILL have to visit the Golden Capsule though)

Or you can go the normal route and gather all upgrades and still get it that way too. Figured it'd be a fun alternative route to getting it. It's not a major game changer or anything but it is kind of fun.

I played a bit, and I gotta say, I really enjoy this. So many things have been fixed and tinkered with that give X3 a great facelift that it kind of needed. Zero feels great to play as, and some of the quality of life choices are a great addition.

Only issue is a fairly tiny bug: for some reason, whenever a midboss/stage boss explodes, the emblem on Zero's HP bar becomes blue for some reason:


But that little bug aside, it's great! It feels very complete for the most part, so hats off to you!

This is a palette bug really. The only real way to fix this would be to shift the explosion palette to another location then rewrite the palette being used back. I could alter the blue explosions but it'd look extremely gross. It's just a minor graphical but and I've been lazy to fix it since I'd have to do special cases until I was able to figure out a specific way to make it work across the board.
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DannyPlaysSomeGames

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #922 on: March 24, 2019, 09:06:56 am »
This is a palette bug really. The only real way to fix this would be to shift the explosion palette to another location then rewrite the palette being used back. I could alter the blue explosions but it'd look extremely gross. It's just a minor graphical but and I've been lazy to fix it since I'd have to do special cases until I was able to figure out a specific way to make it work across the board.
It's alright. It's not an important bug, it's just something I noticed. I'm pretty sure it won't bother that many people, so if you feel like it's more of a hassle than it's worth that's totally fine.
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AxlRocks

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #923 on: March 24, 2019, 06:35:01 pm »
That screenshot reminded me: I don't know if this has been brought up before, maybe even by me, heck if I'd remember, but ever since I noticed it, it bugged me how X3's weapon energy bars use different shades of white/gray/black than what is used by Hyper C and the health bars. I think X2 has this "issue" too, less so, but anyway.

Instead of asking, I figured it out myself and changed them to match the health. This does change some weapon icons slightly, but nothing detrimental at all, 100% worth it if you obsess over stupid things like I do. This should be applied over a headerless Zero Project 4.0. I might change up the weapon icon colors too, like Acid Burst, which I think looks really washed out either way and looks much better in the menu.

Example:
Download: https://mega.nz/#!bjZCUSzZ!6qMUrObcG0n8AjIKj8TLPJ-bf5EDs1GBAvvKBzA79HE

ThegreatBen

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #924 on: April 09, 2019, 07:26:32 pm »
I was reading the readme for this and remembered you had mentioned extra character slots, how hard would it be to make one of those an X that never gets armor?

I think X5 and up have this option already.

Teemu

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #925 on: May 25, 2019, 10:46:32 am »
Zero Project is part of the official Mega Man RTA Leaderboards, and here is a recent world record by me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15WZdZfCT3g

Zero Only in 42:41.

It's a good run, nailed most of the strats. First try elevator skip in Doppler 2. I still believe in sub 42, and I would like to see it one day. For a Zero Only run, that is. For this run, I collected one subtank for safety. Skipped everything else. In a run with character swaps, I guess the fastest route would be Zero through the 8 mavs, collecting the boots and buster upgrade, then killing Zero at Doppler 2, and finishing the game as X with the beam saber because it saves a crap ton of time in the boss rush and Sigma. The boots would be collected for elevator skip.

I haven't really looked into a run with X at all, though, so I'm not sure, though.

It's a tough run, very challenging towards the end. I just still really dislike not having a quick kill saber for Zero in the refights because it literally means having the exact same boss fights twice in a run, and that's lame. Not to mention having to deal with Tiger and Catfish RNG twice in one run. And the removal of the insta kills for Crawfish and Seahorse hurts a little, too. But if that's the way it's gonna be, then that's the way it's gonna be.

I still like it a lot.

Prouncer

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #926 on: May 26, 2019, 06:40:32 pm »
I don't know if anyone has requested or talked about it. But is it possible to make it so that Zero can be controlled by the P2 controller? Like an option in the start menu?

Teemu

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #927 on: July 09, 2019, 03:00:42 am »
Is this a scenario you could give some thought:

Killing X in the Doppler 2 miniboss fight grants Zero an upgraded saber that one or two shots bosses. The story could be that X grants Zero his buster, kinda like Zero gave X his buster in X1, and Zero then combines it with his own, and the end result is a stronger saber.

Killing Zero in Doppler 2 results in Zero giving an upgrade to X's buster, which gives him a stronger buster shot that one or two shots bosses.

My point being that you've mentioned wanting to keep X and Zero different, and this would give them two distinct weapons for the late game; one melee and one long range. It would just make the end game a lot more enjoyable if the character had a quick kill weapon - which is a thing in every vanilla SNES game. And yeah, it's possible to just use X with the upgraded buster, but then every run would require using X for the late game, and not playing as Zero kinda kills the whole point of playing this hack in my IMO.

DannyPlaysSomeGames

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #928 on: July 09, 2019, 07:14:25 pm »
Is this a scenario you could give some thought:

Killing X in the Doppler 2 miniboss fight grants Zero an upgraded saber that one or two shots bosses. The story could be that X grants Zero his buster, kinda like Zero gave X his buster in X1, and Zero then combines it with his own, and the end result is a stronger saber.

Killing Zero in Doppler 2 results in Zero giving an upgrade to X's buster, which gives him a stronger buster shot that one or two shots bosses.

My point being that you've mentioned wanting to keep X and Zero different, and this would give them two distinct weapons for the late game; one melee and one long range. It would just make the end game a lot more enjoyable if the character had a quick kill weapon - which is a thing in every vanilla SNES game. And yeah, it's possible to just use X with the upgraded buster, but then every run would require using X for the late game, and not playing as Zero kinda kills the whole point of playing this hack in my IMO.
The problem I see with this is, unless how the boss scenario works is changed, you'd end up losing one or the other either way. And people wouldn't like that because then it would mean that they could only play as one character throughout the endgame, discouraging people from killing Vile Mark II. I'm not saying it's interesting, it kind of is, but the consequences of being forced to lose someone kinda sucks. Still, I think it'd be interesting to see both get their own, unique one-hit KO, although it'd sound broken. But that's up to Justin to decide, and I'm pretty sure he's done with working on the project, at least for now.
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Teemu

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #929 on: July 10, 2019, 12:19:11 am »
The problem I see with this is, unless how the boss scenario works is changed, you'd end up losing one or the other either way. And people wouldn't like that because then it would mean that they could only play as one character throughout the endgame, discouraging people from killing Vile Mark II. I'm not saying it's interesting, it kind of is, but the consequences of being forced to lose someone kinda sucks. Still, I think it'd be interesting to see both get their own, unique one-hit KO, although it'd sound broken. But that's up to Justin to decide, and I'm pretty sure he's done with working on the project, at least for now.
Yeah, it's also my understanding that Justin is done working on this project, and he has well earned his retirement, it's a great project. :)

But I wanted to ask since the lack of a one hit kill weapon for Zero is the biggest problem I have with the game. It makes the end game such a pain to slog through. And not because it's, hard, just boring. Also I'd like to point out that I'm speaking from a speedrunner's perspective, and we do runs of our speedgames hundreds of times over, sometimes thousands. So we complete the game several times per session usually. That's why a one hit KO weapon is a godsent, haha.

I don't really see a problem with being locked to using one character for the endgame since you would choose which one you use, and it'd be optional since you can always just skip Vile in the factory during the 8 mavs, and fight him in Doppler 2. But if you do sacrifice a character, the reward is the one hit KO weapon.

Also, in a speedrun, a one hit KO weapon isn't broken at all since in the speedrun of the vanilla X3, the saber rush is actually one of the trickiest parts of the run since it's not easy at all to get the quickest possible saber kills on all the bosses. It takes mastery to be able to use the saber efficiently.

Currently, in the Zero Project, to get a quick boss rush, I need to get the buster upgrade in Tiger, kill Vile, kill Zero in Doppler 2 and play the rest of the run as X. And also, because of that, I also need to get the boots because I need to do the Doppler 2 spike elevator skip, and it's incredibly hard without the boots.

I've personally never been a big fan of the boss rush in Mega Man games to begin with. You've already fought them once, so it's never been anything but boring to me have to go through all of them again. You're just using the same strats as you did the first time around anyway. Hardly exciting.

My favorite boss rush, however, by far is in vanilla X3 where you only have the saber and no buster upgrade; the saber has such easy, quick access without the buster upgrade, and it's actually pretty fun.

Here's the saber rush from the world record run by Luiz Miguel:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/256562253?t=00h32m18s

It's really cool. :)

So, yeah, the fact that this most fun part of the game (for me) isn't part of the Zero Project (as Zero) is a big bummer for me. :/

Thirteen 1355

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #930 on: July 10, 2019, 09:04:12 am »
Hey just a question but would you consider changing Sigma's sprites to the ones from a prototype build that just got released this month? it's the August 9th 1995 build of the game. While some of the characters have totally different sprites that don't look all that good or don't really look like the official art, Sigma's August 9th design looks more like his art work and even looks more like he did in X1 and X2. His final design looks good, but it always felt off when you compare it to the other 2 games. Of course this is just a thought...but it would be pretty cool to see this sprite in the game.



Here is a link from The Cutting Room Floor if anyone wants to see the August 9th design and the final design side by side or read more about the differences between the two designs.

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Mega_Man_X3_(SNES)/August_Prototypes/Sprite_Changes

Updated the link since they changed it

Woah that one looks amazing. Sigma's head always looked small to me in X3.

EDIT: Oh wait my internet loaded a page from a year ago haha. Still, looks awesome.

justin3009

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #931 on: July 13, 2019, 12:13:40 pm »
Yeah, it's also my understanding that Justin is done working on this project, and he has well earned his retirement, it's a great project. :)

But I wanted to ask since the lack of a one hit kill weapon for Zero is the biggest problem I have with the game. It makes the end game such a pain to slog through. And not because it's, hard, just boring. Also I'd like to point out that I'm speaking from a speedrunner's perspective, and we do runs of our speedgames hundreds of times over, sometimes thousands. So we complete the game several times per session usually. That's why a one hit KO weapon is a godsent, haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSx5LvdUD0c - I was working on a separate upgrade for Zero where he'd get a form of X's buster that would deal massive damage. Didn't go much further though as this games projectile editing is a bitch. (This was just a test idea anyhow).

My main idea was to essentially copy X's MMX2 buster and have that be an upgrade for Zero so he'd at least do quite a bit more damage in the long run but still not one-hit everything.
I was reading the readme for this and remembered you had mentioned extra character slots, how hard would it be to make one of those an X that never gets armor?

I think X5 and up have this option already.

You can technically do that already without getting the armor pieces at all, but there's no actual 'way' to disable the armor pieces on X in-game yet. It can be done easily via codes if you remove his armor value but that's it so far.

As for adding new characters themselves, it's actually pretty straightforward at this point but it requires a lot more ASM on my part to split everything else up properly. The basics are there, but projectiles and stuff would be utterly broken. Pretty sure I made almost everything else though be dynamic up to four characters in total gameplay wise.

Woah that one looks amazing. Sigma's head always looked small to me in X3.

EDIT: Oh wait my internet loaded a page from a year ago haha. Still, looks awesome.
I like some of his original design as well but that's something I'm going to completely avoid. Dealing with X and Zero was enough to do, I can't begin to fathom the annoyance and frustration I'd get with enemies.

As for this project in whole, I don't want to say it's 'dead' but it's definitely just 'existing' at this point. I was in the middle of a bugfix patch and then upgrading the color patch and merging some of the data with the bugfix and blah blah, things got really complicated fast and I burnt out. There's so much I'd have to redo anyhow in my .ASM files. A lot of my style has updated and how I have everything working now is completely inefficient and just an ass to look through. I'd probably want to update all of that first before I do anything else if I work on this again.

If I get back into this, I'd like to just upgrade the options menu as a whole and allow people to enable or disable certain features just so there doesn't have to be the multiple patch B.S.. But that will probably be a long way out honestly.

Still, there is that one SUPER rare bug with the REX2000 mini-boss in the Doppler Stage. It has to do with the ceiling collapsing and I honestly don't know what, how or why, but it does EXTREMELY RARELY write into the new RAM that I'm using for the characters. I could probably shuffle that somewhere else truthfully but that would break a lot of things again.
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acediez

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #932 on: July 13, 2019, 08:12:13 pm »
Even though my first reaction to prototype Sigma was also "omg put it on Zero Project", after seeing it in action I realize it's not perfect either. While it obviously looks better as a still sprite, his animations have some issues. For example, his movements don't match the shield's position when he's jumping and when he's shooting fireballs (he twists the whole body, while the final one keeps the arm holding the shield in place). Then there's Kaiser Sigma. The bigger Kaiser Sigma from the prototype was missing Sigma's head, and even if he had one, Kaiser Sigma seems to be scaled and designed around the smaller head...
... Probably the reason why they changed the whole sprite set to begin with. They probably aimed to make Kaiser Sigma look bigger proportionally without actually having to make him any bigger.

Considering that adding it would involve a lot of work, you'd need to have a very good sprite artist address these issues first for it to be worth it. Not implying it should necessarily be done as part of this particular project either, it's just a thought on the subject.

As for this project in whole, I don't want to say it's 'dead' but it's definitely just 'existing' at this point. I was in the middle of a bugfix patch and then upgrading the color patch and merging some of the data with the bugfix and blah blah, things got really complicated fast and I burnt out. There's so much I'd have to redo anyhow in my .ASM files. A lot of my style has updated and how I have everything working now is completely inefficient and just an ass to look through. I'd probably want to update all of that first before I do anything else if I work on this again.

If I get back into this, I'd like to just upgrade the options menu as a whole and allow people to enable or disable certain features just so there doesn't have to be the multiple patch B.S.. But that will probably be a long way out honestly.

Still, there is that one SUPER rare bug with the REX2000 mini-boss in the Doppler Stage. It has to do with the ceiling collapsing and I honestly don't know what, how or why, but it does EXTREMELY RARELY write into the new RAM that I'm using for the characters. I could probably shuffle that somewhere else truthfully but that would break a lot of things again.

Thanks for the update! It sounds like the project simply reached a point of diminishing returns, where just fixing a small remaining issue takes a lot more work than what the issue is worth. If anything, the most important thing you could do next would probably be to update your code and workflow to your current standard for your own convenience, in case you feel like adding or changing anything in the future.

Either way, this has been a great project to follow from the start and continues to be an inspiration, so thanks again!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 08:29:38 pm by acediez »

Teemu

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #933 on: July 14, 2019, 04:15:40 am »
Nice to hear that the project isn't "dead dead"! I had a several year long Pokémon rom hack project back in the day that was very ambitious and demanded countless of probably thousands of hours of work, so I absolutely understand the feeling of rom hacking burnout. This stuff takes the juices out of you.

DannyPlaysSomeGames

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Re: Mega Man X3 - Zero Project (V4.0)
« Reply #934 on: July 14, 2019, 07:18:18 pm »
As for this project in whole, I don't want to say it's 'dead' but it's definitely just 'existing' at this point. I was in the middle of a bugfix patch and then upgrading the color patch and merging some of the data with the bugfix and blah blah, things got really complicated fast and I burnt out. There's so much I'd have to redo anyhow in my .ASM files. A lot of my style has updated and how I have everything working now is completely inefficient and just an ass to look through. I'd probably want to update all of that first before I do anything else if I work on this again.

If I get back into this, I'd like to just upgrade the options menu as a whole and allow people to enable or disable certain features just so there doesn't have to be the multiple patch B.S.. But that will probably be a long way out honestly.

Still, there is that one SUPER rare bug with the REX2000 mini-boss in the Doppler Stage. It has to do with the ceiling collapsing and I honestly don't know what, how or why, but it does EXTREMELY RARELY write into the new RAM that I'm using for the characters. I could probably shuffle that somewhere else truthfully but that would break a lot of things again.
I feel like at this point, if you really want to redo all your ASM, it'd be better to either start completely from scratch, or, the better alternative, segment the ASM into small chunks and then individually simplify/adjust/fix/replicate/whatever each segment, then stitch them all together once you're done, or as you progress. That's a tip my brother taught me: segment your work so that you don't burn out so easily. Still, I think you should deserve a good break from working on this project; what you've already done is just super exquisite, and definitely impressive on a technical scale. While there are a few things that could be fixed, I can safely say I am satisfied with the project so far. And you can tackle your project any way you like, I'm just giving out advice.
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