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Messages - RodMerida

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81
Of course it's much better with a native. Or with someone fluent in Japanese.
My Japanese reading is slow and with dictionary. It's good for some paragraphs, but would be too slow and time taking for a whole game.

Anyway, the important thing in a translation is the translator to be native in the targetting language.

Can I please talk with that native friend?

82
Nice, thanks! Really wanted to have the version with the rotating splash screen for archival-historic purposes.
:D!
I have it! Look:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/3ohwge4bq44k2c2/DQUST1C2.OLD/file
This is version 1.02 (it already included the name Gwaelin replaced to Laura in the first dialog of DQ1, but still the spinning splash screen had not been replaced, and the checksum is right. You still had to push A-button once more when making field magic, so there was no text overflow yet when using Antidote or Revive in the field).

Check if it's the same than FCandChill's, please.


And this is version 1.03 (still with spinning screen, that didn't get changed until 1.03c):
https://www.mediafire.com/file/25yi1a19ridsiaj/DQUEST1n2Fixed-1_03.zip/file

This version 1.0, that had an almost game breaking bug when using Search with the Hero dead (I don't recommend it):
https://www.mediafire.com/file/dbc1jpssh5vjos7/DQUEST1n2Fixed-1_0.zip/file

They were all in my download folder, since days ago.


June 24, 2021, 11:30:07 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
_____
New version of the patch ready (v.1.04):
http://crackowia.gq/dqust1n2.html
It fixes a glitch that misinformed the total amount of money stored in the vault, when bigger than 65535, saying instead a very small quantity, what made us believe we had lost our money (even though it was still there).

Thanks to Lilpuddy38 and Dudejo for their very much contributing to the betatestings, the 1st in DQ1, and the 2nd, in DQ2.

83
it's not going to be sub-par. It may not be to everyone's taste, but it certainly will please many.
Okay, okay. I believe you.

I understand that in part what you would like is to avoid the repetition of efforts, but really Chicken Knife and company want to do it, and many, including myself, appreciate this.
I don't doubt it.
They're eager to do this.
They don't seem to find any thrauma in the repetition of efforts. Lol.

I've done my advice, anyway.


84
Do you think individuals were actually empowered to create translations in the middle ages in the way that people are now?
"Empowered"? Lol. What's that.
They couldn't make many translations of the Bible because they had lost the originals Lol, until Constantinople fell, that they could access the Greek and Hebrew originals thanks to exiled monks. Until then nothing! Besides that the Vulgata got a prestige, and also became the official text of the Church. Besides that not everybody is or was qualified to interpret that text correctly, nor they could translate it however they wanted, there had to be some rules. Otherwise imagine the chaos (that's a difference with Protestantism, by the way: whoever can make a translation without a quality filter and much quotation).

That's partly my point with this.

If whoever comes makes whatever translation they want over the other we end up in anarchy: in an anarchic mess of patches and translations that most of people, not so informed, won't know which is the right.
Added to this is not easy to read Japanese (thanks goodness Lol).

I'm only waiting your full list of things. Don't pass them to me one by one. Pass me the whole bunch. I will find a page with the Japanese script, will start translating it myself with a good dictionary, will compare your things, see if your points have a point, and if I see reasonable and right your criterium you will have my blessings. I will help you in whatever you need.

Anyway I don't know why you necessarily want to convince me. Probably you've already figured out how to remove the splash, it's not hard.

For my blessing, I just need facts, and to check the thing myself with the Japanese source in my hand and your list in the other hand. I'm a philologist. I'm very used to do these things with Middle Ages original handscripts (or photocopies of them, of different versions of a book from different countries), in Arabic language or in old Castilian (with damn paleographic letters), this is even easier, because it's printed, typographic text, the only complication are kanjis, but they're not many in this game, and with a good dictionary, my knowledge of Japanese grammar will let me see the truth.


Quote from: Red Soul
I think it would just become an endless iteration of circular thinking.

Don't worry about that circular thing. I have said everything I had to say. I think my points have been understood, as I have Chicken K.'s. I've said nearly my last word.

By the way, you were right in your reviews. You encouraged me to do this port. Other people did too through different social networks, like Twitter or Facebook, but your review was the detonating drop. What did it cost me? Only answering by here to many kinds of attacks of all the varieties, even linguistic ones Lol.
Well. I can't deny it's funny.

Quote from: Red Soul
Let's not erect holy monoliths for things that shouldn't have them.

There're no holy monoliths, I think you misunderstand me.
There are philological criteria, in a subject where I have a formation and a qualification, and I try to be professional.
I'm not illiterate in Japanese. Maybe I'm not fluent, but my knowledge of read Japanese is enough to understand what is happening with good dictionaries, that I have in paper since before starting the university, and patience. I also know some 500 kanjis by heart (the standard list is around 2000).

That's it.
If I see the translation is good, except some details, it's not for free.
It's not because of a religious belief, nor fanatism, nor idolatry, nor I'm a fanboy nor anything. I have an age for being fanboy.

Quote
Just because something is well-written enough that it isn't plain gibberish doesn't mean that it cannot and should not be improved.
We're not talking about improving. We're talking about investing months in correcting... a whole team of people!
It seems RPGone is just a person, ChrisRPG. He didn't even translate, he was one of the main ROMhackers.
The translator was spspiff.

85
if the translated scripts of these old hacks is held as sacrosanct, then shouldn't the underlying hacking and code be too?
I think fixing the hack's bugs and adding extra features like intro screens can be considered just as "disrespectful"
The difference is you are not altering anything from the original English text because it's a quality reliable work (except unintentional typos), and people don't loose their advance because they've found an unexpected bug that freezes the game, and they can complete it.

I think the difference is obvious.
And a splash screen is necessary to difference the bugfixed version from the original row one with those bugs that already had its own splash screen (that the new version still conserves as optional, by the way, so where is the disrespect), so people may difference it easily, don't confuse, and know they're actually playing a bugfix.

Otherwise imagine the mess.
If the Japanese version has no splash screen and the RPGOne's bugged version has it, and you remove your splash screen, how do they know they're playing the RPGOne version, but bugfixed? Most of people don't research so much, they just push start and play.

86
Chicken Knife:
You can't compare something written millenia before Christ, and during centuries, like the Bible, that is besides the core script of the main religion of the Roman Empire and later of Europe since more or less 4th to 6th centuries, with a game from the late 80's or early 90's.
But even if you do, during all the Middle Ages until Renaissance with the downfall of Constantinople (that is, during centuries) there was only one official translation of the Bible for the Catholic Church: the Vulgata, in Latin, made by Saint Jerome. But after centuries of endless handscript manual copying the mistakes and alterations (due to human mistakes mostly) were so many in the different copies that it was virtually impossible to know how the original was: what made necessary a new Latin retranslation from the Greek translation of the 70 ones (that is the official, nowadays, for the Catholic Church).

If with something like Bible, that has counted with so many translations through history, there was one only translation commonly in use in Western Europe during the whole Middle Ages, why should it be different in only 20 years since DQ1+2 was first translated to English, in 2002?

Anyway I think both things are not comparable. If you want to compare an RPG with something in literature it should be with a theatre work, since an RPG is a dialogistic genre into video-games.
Or at least, compare it with something from the 20th century, like The Lord of the Rings (or The Hobbit):

Do you know how many translations there exist of The Lord of the Rings to Spanish, in the world?
One.
Same with The Hobbit.

Do you know why? Because it's not necessary more. And because it's of very good quality too. It's faithful, and everybody understands it perfectly, so redoing a so damn long work seems useless.

That's my point.


P.S.: I'd like to hear other opinions from people too.

87
they are far less patient than I am.
"They"? You are pluralizing him! Lol. Like in "Elohim", or in DQ2!

88
There's even a DQ3 line in Alefgard that goes: "God is light, and the Archfiend is darkness." Clearly singular to singular.
Not the same. The Archfiend is a demon, not a god. It's the greatest demon, or the boss of demons, same concept than Satanas or "The Devil" in Christianity.

DQ3 is clearly a monotheistic game (DQ's religion had evolved, like in Bible).


Did you have people condemning you for replacing an existing Spanish translation?
If I redid them with games that are well translated of course, they'd criticise me. I would even feel shame.
But DQ1+2's one was very poor in vocabulary (and had far more game breaking bugs that RPGOne's, untranslated sentences in English, orthograph or dotting mistakes, many dialogs were shortened with very simple words, were not faithful or were not well translated, etc.).
Chrono Trigger's one is not faithful at all, and even reprograms/changes the battle rules or statistics behaviour making you gain abilities 3 or 4 times quicker than in the vanilla game. It over abuses of Spanish slangs. It over abuses of plural even when you are only one person in the party. It changes the names of some characters or enemies to something that has nothing to do to be funny, like Johnny to Patxi (because of a famous Spanish motorbike racer called Patxi López), Nagaette (or Naga in the Japanese version) to Jaca Paca (that means "Franky the female mule" or "donkey"), and many other things. Also he doesn't translate the different styles of speech, like Robots'.

With the FF6 translation made by him the same. It's too free and changes the battle rules by changing the assembly routines to what he likes and also applying a kilo of patches.

I think it's not the same than what we're talking about of RPGOne. RPGone's work is very faithful and of quality, it doesn't deliberately reprogram the game behaviour, thus changing the experience. It doesn't change the battle rules. And the few unintentional glitches can be "easily" fixed without redoing his job.

This kind of translation is comparable in Spanish to the one of Shin Megami Tensei 2, that is very professional, or to the one of Treasure of the Rudras. I'd feel much shame if I self-convinced with some little excuses to redo all that.

No. Everything is not redoable.
Don't do others what you don't like to be done.


June 23, 2021, 10:06:52 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Translation error

Nejimakipiyo, can I see the whole Japanese text of each conflictive sentence?


In English, mortifying means to feel an intense sense of embarrassment. Why would the merchant be embarrassed?
https://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=mortificante

Second meaning:
(Formal) To be mortified, to be conscious-stricken = to feel remorse, to feel torment yourself.

English language has much Latin influence, and many words borrowed from Latin, due partially to centuries of Norman domination, and partially to the influence of pan-European Christian culture, that during centuries used Latin as an international literary or educated, written language.

So English language accepts in formal style many acceptions that are not common in colloquial language. Like "to be mortified" in its original Latin sense (feeling like dying, from mors, mortis = death).

This is called "literary word". In this case: a literary semantic use of a word.
This shows from RPGOne / spspiff a very strong vocabulary basis in his own language, that I appreciate.

89
the priests all invoke either the Goddess or the Almighty,
The only fact they call that deity in feminine already implies a polytheistic conception of the world. If they were true monotheists God would have no gender, it would be an abstract concept, so it would be neutral (with undetermined gender). The non-specified gender form for god/goddess is its basis form, or lexeme: "god".

Also, the fact in DQ2 citizens complain Hargon is trying to invoke Malroth, an evil god, it means even though there is only a benevolent god that must be worshipped, evil deities also exists, with power enough to be considered dangerous.

It was a similar concept to Akhen Aton religious view, with his cult to the only Sun-god, Aton, refusing worshipping the other minor deities.
This is called: monolatry or henotheism.

Same happened with primitive Abrahamism, as it's seen in the oldest parts of the Bible itself. God requested being the only worshipped god and considered the others powerless, not worthful of worshipping. Judaism is a religion that evolved from polytheism to monotheism, passing by an intermediate henotheistic stage. Some remnants of this view we may find them in the Hebrew word for God: "Elohim", that means "Gods". -im is the plural mark. Eloh would be the singular for god (same word as in Arabic ilāh, god).


So maybe the first DQ's used a lexical plural for a singular concept, no? I think that aspect needs to be conserved in a translation. It's very interesting.


Rod has made his fierce loyalty to these existing English translators clear
Lol. My "fierce loyalty", how funny phrase.
I only think they made a good job.
Japanese is more ambiguous than Western languages.
When I translated from Japanese to English that DQ1 alternate ending that was untranslated in RPGOne's translation, I said things in my own style (with very serious problems with limit of space, by the way), but the result meant exactly the same RPGOne people had translated in the standard variant of the ending (and I translated without copying from it at any moment). They were just synonymic. Believe me.
There I noticed they translated well. They didn't translate everything too literally, and they even solved the space problem in a very elegant way.
As philologist I cannot put that work in the bin just due to minor aspects.

90
Ufff...
I don't tend to save them.
But I could reproduce them by reading the readme history, and send them to you.

June 23, 2021, 02:58:38 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
but keep the text readable and don't make me dizzy.

It was a mistake not to change that. Proof that I'm not obsessed with my name being read and being famous, I just mentioned it. Anyway it can be stopped and read by holding A-button in the right moment (it's even funny). I recognize it's a mischevious screen.

Quote from: Stifu
Thanks for your work. I'm keeping the new intro, it's nice.
Thank you! You do the right.

91
They are polytheistic in this game, Chicken Knife.

It's an atemporal game. They share the same cross symbol, but they don't mention Jesus Christ anywhere, so the cross could be whatever. They just mention Roto (they even say he was a gift from gods). And it's a Japanese game, with much shintoist influence. Remember Japanese and Eastern people tend to mix religions: Japanese mix shintoism with buddhism all the time. Maybe they are mixing christianism with polytheism here. It's like when in Dragon Ball Akira Toriyama draws the people of some village like arabs, are they arabs? We don't know. Is Oo-Long Chinese, or communist? We don't know, it's just an atemporal world with influences from those cultures. We even see some men that are humanoid animals.

That benevolent thing sounds cool to me. If I had done the translation I would have prefered to use a synonymous for the 2nd "benevolent" and I'd had removed the 2nd "the", but I've not done it. That repetition could be an aliteration (sounds repetition) resource. I'm just bugfixing a little here. I have to respect the way the original translator chose meanwhile it's not clearly grammarly broken or it's not a typo.

93
Thank you very much!

You might break the game at some point doing that.


94
I would absolutely love the opportunity to look at this, though it seems like you have a rare treasure in your hands and might want to maintain its rarity.  :laugh:

Haha. No, it's not a Rembrandt.
I will use it for my translation and then share it.

I could insert it in the SNES DQ3 English ROM made by DQ Translations too, but I like very much this translation; so that divides my feelings. Besides I don't have that much time.

95
we make things first for our own pleasure, and second for others.
I like something I have invested many days or weeks doing is of help to many people, not just to a gourmet minority.

Quote from: Chicken Knife
I'm confused by what it is you have. A rip of the Japanese contemporary script?
An unreleased official English script, completely finished.

96
And you didn't act like an ass?

97
Hahaha.
Welcome.

A970?
Wherever that goes, no?
It surprises me it is working by chance by altering the code of a subroutine.
How do you know it won't collapse in the middle of the game or something?

98
with the DQ Translations DQ3 script. They would translate in a way that was hyper literal, with lacking regard to context and lacking understanding of Japanese expressions. The meaning would regularly get lost as a result of their approach.
I'm understanding everything very well.
And I'm beyond the half.

When handling those difficult kind of lines, the results were frequently awkward at best, or simply wrong at worst.
How exagerated. Lol
I'm finding a very professional work, man.

My suggestion to Rod is that he waits for our group to produce a DQ3 SFC translation before doing his Spanish one. Otherwise, he will have to be redoing a *lot* after we demonstrate the extent of the problems.
The remake is coming. After that almost nobody will play our stuff.
There's no time for that.

If Rod doesn't want to wait, my suggestion is that he simultaneously looks at official scripts.
I have it in an Excel file.
A friend has ripped it, hidden, from inside a Japanese modern version, that was unreleased outside Japan.
Maybe I'm the second person in the world that has that right now? Lol.

But for a matter of speed I'm just translating whatever I find in the DQTranslations's script and once I'm finished I'll review the Excel quickly, by comparing.

But the DQ3 script is really long.
I had to ask some help to another translator for accelerating, and even that way I'm suffering.

I hope DQ3 remake release won't be until 2022, or all this will be useless. Lol

99
It kinda reminded me of the commodore 64 days.

That's why I put it! It kinda reminded me of the Commodore 64 & Amiga days! <3

Quote from: d0pefish
Did your mothers not warn you about looking gift horses in the mouth?
Very good proverb, by the way. My mother has said it to me many times.
There is even this humour sketch about it:
https://youtu.be/4j58Ed0T-ao

Quote from: d0pefish
Again thanks for the release.
Welcome!

100
@Rod, regarding DQ3's patch again, I just noticed something pretty obvious right at the beginning: The yes/no prompts don't lead to the correct responses during the personality questions.

The most obvious one was the Queen's scenario, where the Yes response plays the "no" dialogue from the king and vise versa, even though the yes/no choice applies as it normally should. I know it's not directly related to your own patch for 1+2, but if you ever go onto do 3, I'd really recommend double checking the whole personality quiz just to make sure the responses are correct (even if you're just planning on a Spanish translation).

I'm doing the Spanish translation, but if something like that is happening I can't flee from fixing it. Once fixed, I have no problem to port it to the current English text.

Would you say that happens only with the Queen's intro test, or in whatever Yes/No question of the personality quiz? If it did, it would be a very serious and decisive mistake, that is keeping people in ignorance.

June 22, 2021, 03:34:18 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Remember Rod that many people are grateful for your work and the rude people are a vocal minority.

Thank you. ^_^. You give me hope.

June 22, 2021, 04:05:55 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
It would seem that the only efficient way for us to catalogue translation issues like this when we haven't directly worked on the SFC version of DQI&II is to actually work on the SFC version of DQI&II.

Of course. Notice that the text script in NES Dragon Warrior's I and II, has many differences with the SNES RPGone's Dragon Quest I&II script, even though the general idea of events and contents is the same. But the game experience is not the same. And those differences come from the Japanese script itself, and the fact that both versions use different engines, and different dialog windows formats.

That's why I'm seriously considering porting my translation to Dragon Warriors' ones (regarding those differences), in the moment I have more time.

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