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Messages - Rai

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41
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 16, 2010, 12:54:48 am »
You're right. But in this case lengthened translation will take up more space than the DS script.

It would need tons of DTE compression PLUS rom expansion. And if I'm going to try and expand the rom, it's not going to be done anytime soon. This is of course, assuming that expanding the rom is even possible.

A shortened translation would be like this...

Original:
Prince Marth, I'm so happy to see you. The pirates of Galder
        suddenly attacked us. The castle has been taken and many people have
        been killed. Please, save my father!

VS

Shortened:
Marth, the pirates of Galder suddenly attacked us.
They took the castle and killed many.
Help my father!

But I'll look into expanding the rom. But even with documents I probably won't be able to do it successfully anytime soon.

42
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 15, 2010, 11:31:48 pm »
Well anyway, eithers fine. As long as we get translated text.  ;)

And since more people are in favor of actually using a new translation of the script, we'll do that.

Also, I don't really think expanding the rom is necessary. Slightly shortened translations are perfectly alright for NES games.

43
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 15, 2010, 10:41:33 pm »
It -was- hard, but there's a utility (by KingMike, I think) to do it for you. You just have to know which portion of the rom (PRG, CHR, etc) to expand.

And for chrissakes, stop it with the DS script. It's clear that they're different scripts, and there's no point in putting the DS script in the NES game. Do a -real- translation of the -actual- script.

~DS
Okay, I will. But they are the same scripts though. I've actually looked at the original FEDS script. It's the same as in the original.

So how is it different if that's the same text Nintendo translated? Think I'm lying? Get a copy of the Japanese version of FEDS and compare it to the NES text. I can show you screenshots if you need those as proof.

So no I won't admit that they are different scripts because that's a lie.

I will however admit something which is true, which is that Nintendo's translation of the script is not literal.

For instance...

Prince Marth becomes Sire at the beginning. But the Japanese in FEDS still translates to Prince Marth. Like I said it's just not literal.

"Marth, am I glad to see you" is translated as "Marth, come quickly!". It never "literally" says "Marth, come quickly!" in the Japanese version of FEDS, but it's translated that way. But basically, do you get my point?

Go check the Japanese version of FEDS and compare it to the original NES text. Then tell how they're different scripts.

Don't take this as me getting mad, just take it as me proving that something you said was wrong.

Trust me, if the Japanese scripts were different, I wouldn't have ever suggested the idea.

My logic for using the DS script is, since the Japanese version of FEDS uses the same script as the NES version, why shouldn't our English translation?

So if we use a 'real' so called translator, that just means we're going to be using a different translation of the same script.

My point is most of the Japanese text in FEDS is the same as in the original.

Now if the translator shortens the stuff, I can insert it right now. Inserting a translation where all the 'smaller' details still fit, will take a dictionary or rom expansion.

44
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 15, 2010, 08:42:58 pm »
Well I read over the translation and it'll need to be shortened. Also give your translator this site:
http://www.serenesforest.net/fe11/name.html

It has all of the officially localized names and stuff. Even with DTE, your translator should try to only get out the basic meaning. Little things that aren't that important like "Marth, I'm happy to see you" can be input, but important things like "The Galder pirates suddenly attacked" blah blah, would have to be shortened or even removed. Best thing to do would be to shorten the less important things.

BTW, I need the patch before I can make a DTE.

Alternatively, if you want to insert more text, you can find someone who knows about dictionary compression. I just don't have time to learn how to do it and there aren't very many docs on it.
Alternatively, if you can't do dictionary compression, you could expand the ROM and mess with the pointers to fit more text in. Honestly, that's the easiest way to do things.

~DS
Since there are a lot of docs on I might try that. But I remember hearing something about NES rom expansion being near extremely hard. Or was that SNES?

And if I can successfully expand the rom, we might as well insert the DS script. No promises though.

45
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 15, 2010, 07:26:17 pm »
Well I read over the translation and it'll need to be shortened. Also give your translator this site:
http://www.serenesforest.net/fe11/name.html

It has all of the officially localized names and stuff. Even with DTE, your translator should try to only get out the basic meaning. Little things that aren't that important like "Marth, I'm happy to see you" can be input, but important things like "The Galder pirates suddenly attacked" blah blah, would have to be shortened or even removed. Best thing to do would be to shorten the less important things.

BTW, I need the patch before I can make a DTE.

Alternatively, if you want to insert more text, you can find someone who knows about dictionary compression. I just don't have time to learn how to do it and there aren't very many docs on it.

46
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 13, 2010, 11:34:26 pm »
Send me up a patch. That way I can implement DTE into the game. I'll also try to attempt to translate and insert some dialogue.

What I'll basically be doing in translating straight from the Japanese, with some liberties from the English translation.

For instance, "Sire" instead of "Prince Marth".

47
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 13, 2010, 06:44:54 am »
What would be better for the translation of the script? A comparer or an actual translator? We have offers for both options.
Well the best thing would be to get a translator who has knowledge of the official names.

On the other hand I'm pretty decent at translating myself. Not nearly as good as some other people on here, but I can translate pretty well with the help of a dictionary.

As far as kanji go though, I only have about 200 memorized.

48
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 13, 2010, 05:34:38 am »
@ Jorgur: Thanks for your kind words, we're working hard on it!

@ Creatorofchaos: Well, we don't really need help inserting the text, we can do that fine :) But can you translate Japanese Kana? If you can, you could translate the script if you want.

Also I mailed Hitomi Shimizu, the translator of the Gaiden game script. She said she might compare the NES and DS script and tell what's different. So if she will do that, we also have the full script translated.

@ Rai: Well, DTE seems fine to me, I don't think it's really required to fit in the full dialogue, as long as it's understandable. And I'll be using the Japanese terms like S Knight and Mamkute instead of Cavalier and Manakete. I just feel like that fits the game better. And shall I send you this rom soon so you can input the DTE in it?

By the way, what do you think of the icons? :D

edit: lol, weeks we've been looking for a translator, and now we have a lot of offers at once! Check this: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20146
Alright. Just know that people who've played any official FE games will be confused. S Knight has always been localized has Cavalier.

But whatever you want. The icons are good by the way.

49
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 11, 2010, 08:46:27 pm »
Now, are trying to use the official names? Because S Knight is usually localized as Cavalier.

Besides, it seems that DTE would be the best option for dialogue. Just don't have time to learn how to implement more than 2 letter compression.

50
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 07, 2010, 06:13:18 pm »
You're right, but it's pretty hard to input a color-icon in a game with... less colors. Also, the original images were 16x16 and now they must be 8x8... I'll try again :thumbsup:

edit: Better? I'll delete the space later :P


Do you maybe want me to experiment with the colors, or prefer it mono-coloured?
Just so you know more icons = less DTE.

Then again, it should be okay as long as you don't use the icons in dialogue.

51
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 02, 2010, 06:31:42 pm »
You should just have someone translate the NES script. There's no telling what they left out, or added, to the DS game.

Best to actually translate what's actually there, instead of hoping that the DS game has the same script.

~DS
Well I have the Japanese version of Shadow Dragon so I can always check. But as far as there it's the same and if there's any new text, that wasn't in Shadow Dragon, I can translate it.

52
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 02, 2010, 05:26:54 pm »
Then I guess I'll have to use more compression for the 10-character items/weapons :P I think icons can do the job well.
It isn't worth all the trouble for a few weapons/items to move and expand the menus...

Anyway, with the stat boosting items, how would you like to see it? They are now called: Angel Robe, Power Ring, Secret Book, Manual, Speed Ring, Goddess Icon, Dragon Shield, Boots and Amulet. As you can see the items Angel Robe, Power Ring, Secret Book, Speed Ring, Goddess Icon and Dragon Shield are too long (more than 8 characters).

How would you like the names to be displayed in the translation. Like: [icon of robe] Angel, or would you rather like [icon of robe] HP (so you can see the stat you boost, which could be less clear in the first choice)? Or maybe another way, Or I can just keep it called Angel Robe without an icon and with even more compression of the characters.

And great I can put in the names myself. There's no translator yet, so I think the Shadow Dragon script will be fine. However, it looks quite different to me: http://serenesforest.net/fe11/script/chapter_01.html
The result is about the same, but quite other text is being used in the shadow dragon script... My English is not yet very good, so I'm not sure how well I'll be able to make good sentences of that script with the space I have available.

The Mystery of the Emblem script looks much more like the script, however, that game misses a few chapters. http://serenesforest.net/fe3/script1_01.html
I think it's the best to use a combination of both script, ok?
Well I've checked and Shadow Dragon seems to be a translation of the original script. I admit, the translation isn't entirely accurate, but like I said it would make it seem more consistent. I've even checked the original Japanese Shadow Dragon script and compared it to the NES script. It's exactly the same but uses kanji.

So while I know the Shadow Dragon script isn't a 100% accurate translation of the Japanese text, I think for consistencies sake we should use the Shadow Dragon script, only changing it where the original Japanese was different.

It's basically the idea of Shadow Dragon uses the original Japanese script, so why not make the original use the Shadow Dragon script, which is a translation of the same text?

Here's an example of the Shadow Dragon script, the literal translations are in bold:
Quote
マルスおうじ
タリスじょうから
シーダさまがこられました

Sire! You've a visitor from the castle.
It's Princess Caeda!

Prince Marth! Caeda-sama has
arrived from Talys castle.


どうしたんだ シーダ
しろでなにかあったのか

Caeda, what is it?
You look white as a sheet!

Caeda, what is it?
Did something happen at
the castle?


マルスさま あえてよかった
ガルダのかいぞくが
とつぜん おそってきたの

Marth, come quickly!
It's the castle... Galder's pirates
attacked from out of nowhere...

Marth, am I glad to see you!
Galder's pirates suddenly attacked...


おしろも せんりょうされて
おおぜいのひとが ころされたわ
おねがい おとうさまをたすけて

They stormed the gates and cut down
everyone in their path!
I fear for my father's life...

They captured the castle and
killed many people.
Please help my father...


だいじょうぶだよ シーダ
このとりでには アリテーアの
ゆうかんな きしたちがいる

かいぞくどもに
まけることはないさ
さあ ぼくといっしょに
タリスのしろへ いこう

Steady, Caeda.
You did well to come find us.

Altea's bravest knights aren't about to
hand over Talys to that flock of seafowl.
Come, we'll make for the castle now!

It's alright, Caeda.

Altea's bravest knights
are in this castle. Under
no circumstances will we
lose to the pirates.
Let's go to the castle together!

So it's really not that Shadow Dragon's script isn't accurate, it's more that it's just not as literal as fan translations. But most of the script is true to the original and where it's not, I can check the translations and change them.

I've checked the Japanese version of Shadow Dragon by the way and all that text is the same as in the NES version, but with kanji.

53
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 02, 2010, 04:54:00 am »
The reason why I use this font is that it's easy to make tiles with more characters with this font. Because of the small 'i' and 'l' and some other characters are also fairly small.

Anyway, would it be possible to make the storage menu bigger so the items with 10 characters won't get buggy? (Like the hero proof in the screenshot, if you put it in storage, you can't take it out or the game will bug).

And probably a stupid question, but if you use MTE (dictionary), do you then have to input all the script, or can I do that then, too. Because I started this project and if you insert all the dialogue I feel like I didn't do enough for the hack I started... I hate the feeling that I let do someone else the big work, you know?
I don't really want to say yes. The problem with that in FE is that sometimes the same menu will be on the other side of the screen. This sometimes makes the menu on one side overlap. Otherwise, I'd be able to input full item names.

The only way to fix the overlapping is really moving the menu's, which can be done, but probably isn't worth the trouble.

And yes you can put things in.

54
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: May 01, 2010, 11:56:24 pm »
I've never seen your script anywhere...

Anyway, the translator didn't have time to work on this project, so we'll need another one. I will discuss with Rai what's the best thing to do.
Well I was thinking to be consistent with the DS game we could insert the DS script. Now, this is possible through dictionary compression and I'm learning how to do that right now. I might also make a hack that expands the main dialogue window, but I don't know. I've messed with the menu windows before and the results after leaving the window weren't pretty. That's why I pretty much gave up on inserting the full item names in my translation.

Menu expansion isn't that hard and the menu length is usually one byte, that comes after an "LDA". But moving menu's around and stuff is just hard.

But yeah, right now I'm working on implementing dictionary compression, to see if I can insert the NDS script.

What worries me about dictionary compression is, you won't use the same lower case bytes as I did.

55
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: April 27, 2010, 04:50:42 pm »
Oh well, we bring out 2 patches, one with Caeda and one with Sheeda  ::) Now back to topic please
Yeah, we'll do that. But Caeda is pretty close to the original pronunciation. The "Cae" is similar to the "Cae" in Caesar.

They probably just wanted to make her name more European looking.

But yes, we'll create 2 patches.

BTW, have you found a translator yet? If not, I can just insert the script I previously translated.

I also think the dissapearing/reappearing thing is caused by the compares. Problem with FE is that if you remove the handakuten compares, the whole text routine screws up.

Also, what do you think of basically inserting the DS script for consistancy with the DS version?

This could work, but I'd have to check between the scripts of the DS version and the NES versions for accuracy.

It's kind of like when they translated HGSS and translated text that was in the original and HGSS, the same.

I've checked the original Japanese version of Shadow Dragon and as far as the intro, the text is the same as in the original. This means that the Shadow Dragon translations are translations of the original text.

With the right DTE values, we can fit the Shadow Dragon script.

56
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: April 27, 2010, 03:20:37 am »
Well here's the video of my progress in trying to input those translations. Turns out that even with the DTE minor things will have to be shortened. For instance, when Caeda says "Marth, am I glad to see you" it takes up a lot more space, even with DTE, than her Japanese line. Since it was so long, I even had to take out the "Help my father" bit.

But yeah, here's a video showing the progress that I've made with the DTE on your rom. I still think you should get an actual translator though. I could try and do it, using the DS version as a reference, if you can't find anyone else. After all, I have been studying Japanese for a few years and can understand the basic grammar pretty well. NES games are harder though, since there's no Kanji.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bH66z1L2nY

Other than the DTE, you can tell that I've added a lowercase font to your translation, which really makes it look better.

Also I'm using the official English translations of the countries, names and other things like that. So that's why I called Sheeda, Caeda instead of Sheeda and called the Garuda pirates, the Galder pirates.

57
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: April 25, 2010, 11:03:32 pm »
I won't ask people to do a job for me. I only take help from people who want to help me voluntary, so I know they want to do it and not because they don't want to deny a request or whatsoever. I first need to wait for the DTE in any case so I can even start on the game script, no word from Rai yet, but I hope I will hear from him soon :)
Well, I'm still offering dude. Just send me up a patch or your hacked rom and I can implement it :).

You should send me up the translated script though also, just so I can figure out the best DTE values.

58
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: April 21, 2010, 01:28:55 pm »
Well, the problem with the double-line hack is that it probably bugs the shops. Like in DarknessSavior's translation. But we could always try ofcourse ;) If it turns out fine, I will use it.

My translation rom crashes now right at the start. I probably accidentally changed a HEX value, but I have to use the backup which contains hardly a thing of the translated work. But if the DTE or Double line hack is implanted, I think progress will go faster.

But for the weapon names, if it's not possible to insert the full names, I will just name it Iron S, Devil A etc. People should understand what I mean.
Well once you get your rom fixed up, since me a patch and I'll implement it for you.

I'd also like to know that if you modify pointers, a DTE really doesn't need to be added to the text routine for items and names. It's definitely possible to fit in the full character names by just modifying pointers. A DTE for the item and character name routine is pointless.

And like I said, the pointers for the items and names are right before them.

It's possible to "insert" per se, the whole weapon names by modifying pointers, but there's just not enough space on the menu.

Also once you send me the rom or the patch, send me the script, so I can find the best DTE values.

59
Personal Projects / Re: Fire Emblem (NES) Translation
« on: April 21, 2010, 05:13:17 am »
Hey, this is Rai. Well I sent you up an e-mail as I've worked with this game before. I can tell you all about where the pointers are and stuff. Don't know if you got it yet, but I also told you in the e-mail about how I've already successfully implemented DTE into the game.

Though, don't expect to be able to insert the DS script with just DTE compression. Even with DTE little details might have to be taken out. But yeah, like I said in your e-mail, if you send me your hacked rom or a patch or whatever, I can implement my DTE into FE.

The reason I need your currently hacked rom, is so that I know which characters I can use for DTE. Obviously I can't use the English alphabet, but I can use left over Japanese characters for DTE values.

Also, the pointers for names and stuff, are stored right before them.

Now, having worked with FE before, I can tell you that there's really only one easy way to insert the full item names and that's by making a double line hack. I've experimented with expanding the menu's, but that makes the game glitchy and is just too difficult for me to make work correctly.

The only item name that won't really work with the double line hack, is Armorslayer, but we could split that into Armor Slayer.

I know the double line hack is possible, because KingMike did one for FE before.

Here's an example of what my DTE can do...


60
I made a few changes. I think it's better this way.

Sweet that's even closer than the other one. Thanks man, I'm gonna use that one and you'll get credited for the title screen.

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