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Messages - edale

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Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 14, 2019, 07:15:20 pm »
A number of years ago, I went through Chrono Trigger with a fine-toothed comb, going back and killing Lavos after every conceivable minor plot advancement, and I found around 17 distinct endings... And my understanding is this mod adds 1 additional ending? Where you save Zeal by beating Lavos in the Ocean Palace (formerly one of 2 paths to the Dev Room)?

I might be remembering the number of endings wrong, but probably best to look for another unused bit or two in the save file...

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 14, 2019, 03:24:27 am »
This' a very interesting idea. Is there enough space in the rom for it?
Unless I'm mistaken, it actually wouldn't take much space on the ROM at all. The largest chunk would be encoding names for the endings, and that could be shortened by just numbering them instead. It would just need a bit of code to play certain chunks of event code before returning to the ending player menu, as well as an in-game trigger to get to the ending player. And possibly a few flags, if the endings were unlocked in the viewer as you got them, rather than just all being playable by default. The problem with the flags would be that would require a change to the save file format, which would likely make all saves from versions without the ending viewer not compatible with saves with the viewer.

Honestly, the best place to put the ending viewer would likely be somewhere in the "secret" developer's room (probably replacing the text of the guy that tells you "can you find all 12 endings?", when there's actually closer to 17 distinct endings, plus variations of a few of those), and if it's in the Dev Room, then it makes sense that you'd be able to view all the endings, even if you hadn't viewed them previously.

It would be cool if it let you play the different versions of the endings, such as the differences from having saved Lucca's mother or not affecting if she's in the parade ending, and such; but that would require another chunk of code to set various flags, and probably a third chunk of code to get the events to pay attention to that set flags rather than the ones in your save...

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 10, 2019, 12:20:30 pm »
Using the current v2.1 patch, the auto-run additional patch breaks things... As in you can't walk/run left, because your characters will glide to the right without the walking animation... Doesn't happen on the worldmap.

September 10, 2019, 12:58:57 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
OK, @andrewclunn got me a save, and I got you the converted tracks!!mNAX2ApQ!A_agtCA158jVJXOQ1mOBeJwuPW0aSuOeIgxFiiKe_-8

Battle 2 is track 81, and Singing Mountain is track 82.

Just rename the files to match the naming of the rest of your set (currently named "chrono_plus_msu"), pop them in the folder with the rest of your PCM files, and you're good to go!

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 09, 2019, 07:53:13 pm »
@Andrew I need to go into town every time I need to upload something, would you be so kind as to provide Edale for the save he needs?
You don't keep saves at various points in the game for testing purposes? It's a good practice for modders; hell, when I was doing the audio work for the FFVI Dancing Mad MSU mod, I had around 100 saves at various points in the game to let me test that stuff was working right. Never had to play the game for more than 10 min to get to where I needed to test.

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 08, 2019, 08:57:15 pm »
Both are great, I especially like the Battle 2 one, Singing Mountain is also very good though I wouldn't mind hearing the competition.
Singing Mountain:
DS version:
Time Rock Orchestra:
Chrono Trigger Symphony:
Melancholy Remaster:
Remaster 3:

*edit- OK, I've got the PCM's for Battle2 and Singing Mountain (remaster version from last post) looped and converted, if you want a different version of Singing Mountain just let me know. All I need now is those saves so I can track down how to number the PCMs so they play in-game (which should only take 2-3 min, unless some special trickery was needed in the coding to get MSU working in Chrono Trigger... which would only push it up to 5-10 min, lol; there's multiple ways to track it down; worst case, I just put some PCM's to fill up every spot from 0 to 100, that do nothing but say which number track they are, then go to where they load up, and see what track plays that way... but I'm not a fan of the brute-force method).

*edit2- Here's the PCM's (not ready to use in-game, just for preview purposes, though they just need to be renamed and numbered properly to work with the game):!7JQmHSRa!7ozH__O8nrX9_lTgW6hK-EX24hrqNx0riXyrxCLGvnQ!mNAX2ApQ!A_agtCA158jVJXOQ1mOBeJwuPW0aSuOeIgxFiiKe_-8
*edit- Updated link to the completed MSU tracks. They ARE ready to use in-game.

And here's is a foobar plugin to let you play the PCMs on your PC, complete with proper gapless looping:

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 08, 2019, 06:34:31 pm »
@ThegreatBen How do you like these versions of the songs for conversion to MSU PCM for this?

Singing Mountain remaster:
Battle 2 remaster:

I can find others if you don't like either, but the pickings for remasters of Battle 2 are slim.

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 07, 2019, 03:01:08 pm »
@edale you should play through anyway, but if you really want save files I'll try to get some this week.
Oh, I'll still be giving this mod a playthrough; I just won't have time to do that for a week or two. Meanwhile, actually doing the MSU audio work should only take 5-10 minutes, so no reason to hold up doing it if I don't have to.

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 07, 2019, 04:19:41 am »
Yes that's definitely the tracks (well the second half for the second one)

They can be found at the Geno Dome conveyor and Death peak respectively.
Annoyingly long intros always get edited out when doing PCM conversion and looping. They rarely if ever actually work in-game. Also, those wouldn't be the versions I'd be converting, I'd be tracking down a FLAC rip of the CD they came from, those are just to make sure I have the right songs when I do grab them.

If someone can get me a savefile or savestate (for savestates Snes9x or BSNES prefered, but I can work with any MSU-compatible emulator, savefiles from any emulator will work with any other emulator) right before Geno Dome and/or Death Peak, I can have the PCMs done within a day or two; without the saves I'll have to play through the game to get to those points, and it might be a few weeks before I get the PCMs done.

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 06, 2019, 05:29:54 pm »
Battle 2 is not supported as far as I know, Singing mountain I think is.

Sorry I don't know much about the msu-1, I was just given it by a patch.
By not supported, you mean Battle2 doesn't play when it's supposed to with the MSU patch applied?

If Battle2 does play when it's supposed to, then it should be simple enough for me to get a PCM track working for it.

If you could let me know where in the game the 2 new tracks are played, or better yet if you get me a savestate/save file right before the tracks play (I need to be able to have the debugger going when the call to change the music to the new tracks is made), I should be able to get the MSU audio working for them.

Just for verification, these are the 2 tracks you've added?

Funnily enough, the only mod I've ever personally made was actually to restore cut music to the MSU version of FFVI (though I've done the MSU audio work for a good number of different projects); so this bit definitely catches my interest, lol.

Personal Projects / Re: Chrono trigger plus
« on: September 06, 2019, 02:50:09 am »
Just found this hack after it was linked to in the Zeldix Chrono Trigger MSU thread, commenting how MSU support was recently added.

Looks like this hack adds a few music tracks into the game... Are there MSU tracks available for those tracks? And if not, does it still play the SPC of the new tracks in the areas where they play?

If there's no MSU tracks available for them at present, have those songs had CD releases and/or orchestrations done of them? I'd be willing to convert the tracks to PCM, and properly loop them, if that's needed, I'd just have to get ahold of a copy of the music to convert.

You don't want to tell us the name of the game.
You don't want to tell us the offending word in question. Since you say "it's the name of a division of Judaism" I think it could probably be one of the 12 tribes of Israel which are mostly common names used both inside and outside of judaism.
It's just a name of a single ennemey.

My conclusion :

1) You don't actually want your opinion as you keep everything secret and don't want to tell details about the project so this means you don't want us to help nor to take you seriously. It could just as well be a random attempt to troll us.
I mentioned in one of the posts that the named group was the Sephardi.
It would be more accurate to say it's the name of a group/class of enemy, there are quite a number of them, and events surrounding them are plot-relevant.

This thread was mostly made as a way to help my friend see the various options taken by others when faced with similar dilemmas, without them having to put their own name out there.

I have asked for permission to post more details, but I won't without that permission. It would be a real dick move to publicly out stuff that was said to me in confidence, especially when it could easily be tracked back to the originator, and I'm not that kind of person.

Which of these two possibilities is more likely:

1) The people behind this game used that enemy's name as an outlet for their diabolical, secretive anti-Semitism (even though anti-Semitism is basically a non-issue in Japan), and cackled with glee at their subliminal messaging; or,

2) The resemblance is either purely coincidental or, at worst, a product of the Japanese (and human) habit of throwing around foreign loanwords and imagery willy-nilly, and appropriating them to suit their needs, whims, and/or innocent misunderstandings (again, at worst)?

We don't freak out about "Mecha" vs. "Mecca", or about killing enemies named Bishop or Mad Monk. If some enemy name resembles Sephardi (Sephiroth?) or Mizrahi, it's not crypto-anti-Semitism. It's just the Japanese game developer version of the same thing that leads dumbass white dudes to get "exotic" kanji/Chinese character tattoos that actually say "ugly shirt" or "non-toxic" or whatever.
The game is VERY rife with religious references, imagery, and connotations, so there's no coincidence the name was used. (though I personally doubt any malicious intent by the game's creators)
The Sephardi are actually the named group... and not just with a similar name...

Funnily enough, I've never drawn the parallel between Sephardi and Sephiroth. I always thought Sephiroth was named after the Seraphim; especially with his 'One-Winged Angel' epithet.

I hope by now, edale, you have at least learned that this discussion topic will definitely not help your buddy decide what to do.
Eh, gives him a few more viewpoints on the topic.

I really wish I could give more info on the specifics, but anything else I can think of to try and clarify would more or less immediately identify the game, which would make it a 1 min search on these forums to find out the person working on the project, which is something I'd REALLY like to avoid without their permission...

The irony here is that ultimately this type of censorship, termed political correctness, is an invention of the Nazis.
I'd say the Catholic Church beat the Nazi's to it by a millenia or two.

And the Roman's before the Catholics.

I could keep going back further...

I only just saw infinity war about a month ago on netflix, but I thought ALL of the Asgardians were dead except Thor.
I recall Thor leading the last of the Asgardians in Guardians 2, but honestly can't remember if the rest died by Infinity War... My joke's turning into a bit of a derail now though....

...but I would say there is precisely zero chance that Odin ever plays a Final Fantasy game.
Well yea, Odin's dead and Thor's leading what's left of the Asgardians now. Didn't you watch that last movie? ;D

How can a game be both "beloved" and "obscure"? :huh:
The game's not obscure, the bits of lore I was looking for was.

Do not count on a disclaimer in the readme to "indemnify" the translator. I don't know how realistic the notion of legal trouble is (probably not very), but it's probably reasonable to imagine offending potential players. And as a player I can tell you that I have never once read a readme.

A third option would be to pick a new, relatively inoffensive word to assign to the enemy. I have no idea what game, context, or term might be, but if it took a delve into the original Japanese text to discover the antisemitism, then it's reasonable to believe there is nothing else specifically identifiable as Jewish about this character. So, call it some generic term, like "punk," or whatever, and move on. If it needs to be something that implies religiosity, how about "zealot?" Or "cultist?" Anyone who happens to know what term was omitted will surely understand the choice, and those who don't probably don't need to.
Reading the readme would kinda be necessary, as patching PSX ISOs is rarely easy. You have to extract and decompress everything, apply the changes, then recompress everything, just look at the steps necessary to apply this patch:
which just adds a variable font width to Xenogears. It's not exactly simple. (took me FOREVER to get that one applied... granted, it's the only PSX ISO mod I've ever applied, so some might be easier, but still...)

And legally, even if the end-user doesn't read the fine-print, the company is still protected. Just look at how much banks screw people over with their fine-print, lol. That said, I don't imagine it would be too hard to add that disclaimer onto one of the startup logo/copyright/etc. screens, he's already messing with the game's text.

Also, his dilemma seems to be more moral than legal, which is something I honestly can't fault him for. Even when telling me about it, he was making sure I wasn't offended by it, and knew he didn't think like that. Anti-semitism is a VERY sensitive subject for some people. Which again, is not something I can fault them for, quite the opposite in fact.

A new name for them is an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure he's going for as accurate as possible translation for the game (some of the updates to the translation, as well as the meticulous research he's been doing on pretty much every single line is pretty impressive), so he may not go for that. That said, I'm doing my own research now to see if I can come up with something to call them that still fits with the lore of the game... I think I've already read a good 100k words of stuff on the game's deeper lore just trying (and failing) to find the stuff about them (this crap is OBSCURE!!!), lol.

I'm not going to go into too many details to protect the ID of the person who's working on the translation, but I felt a community opinion could help them decide what to do.

A friend of mine has been working on a retranslation for a beloved PSX title, and recently found something that has them considering dropping the project entirely.

Basically, one of the enemies that you go around slaughtering was mistranslated in the NA release, but when translated correctly is the name of a division of Judaism.

So they basically view it as a MASSIVELY anti-semitic game with the proper translations in place, since you're going around killing monsters named after jews (they're worried about getting arrested for it, on top of any other concerns).

So basically, I'm asking for community advice on the best way to handle such a sensitive topic.

I can think of 2 solutions, either keep the original mistranslation for that one word, or put a disclaimer in the readme that any views and ideas expressed in the game are not shared by the retranslator.


ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Lufia-Patches by Artemis
« on: December 21, 2018, 11:28:42 am »
I don't see anything. But I don't really know much about that stuff.
Guess it's down to tracking down all the patches you've included in your patch, applying them one by one, and testing each one to find which one causes the conflict... Are all the patches listed in "about the project.txt" available on this site?

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