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Messages - Spinner 8

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61
Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 15, 2016, 11:30:21 am »
I disagree -- there are some big changes, easily enough so that Famicom Rampart offers a unique experience that's completely different from any other version released. This isn't some small graphical change, but a real reimagining of the game, with quests and things that are nowhere to be found in the arcade (or NES) version:

I only watched a couple of Rampart videos yesterday, so I'll have to play them to be sure. But, I don't think that better graphics and extra gameplay modes is enough to fully differentiate it. Almost every console port is different in some way, and I think that documenting all of those differences is beyond the point of the "list of untranslated games" list. :) (Like I said before, if you see another game that you think is warranted, let me know and I'll look at it. As it is, though, I think that only FF3 and FE1 are exceptions right now, simply because they were remade years later, rather than ported.)

Plus, I could go beyond that: what about all the games that were translated, but done badly? Like, games where stuff got cut, or changed. Should those be documented? Should Birdie Try be listed as untranslated, because it was released in the U.S. with a bunch of robots added? Should I at least have mentioned that? Should I go past even that, and look at all the fan translations (Brigandine GE) that were done badly too? In the end I went with being as strict as possible, in a (failed, apparently) attempt to limit the amount of subjectivity that went into it.

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I'd like to be able to use this list to answer a question like "What games on the Famicom have no Japanese text but weren't officially released in the US, regardless of any releases on other platforms?" Right now I can't do that.

I think that your use of "regardless of any releases on other platforms" spells out the difference we have: you're looking for answers to questions that I didn't ask here. My question was "what games on this platform have not been released in English, in any form", which is a very different question.

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I think this highlights the problem I'm having with the way the list is organized: right now, a couple important fields depend on highly personal judgment calls, and/or pre-existing knowledge of the Famicom library (so that I already know Galaxian is an early arcade game with no Japanese text, and Lord of Darkness is a text-heavy sim). But both of those things invite unnecessary errors, on the part of the compiler or end user.

There are always going to be a few judgement calls, and I see no difference at all between Galaxian and Lord of Darkness, in that both were released in English-speaking territories. :)

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With more granular categories or values, there'd be no need for subjective judgment calls like "Is this game different enough from the arcade/MSX version/whatever to justify calling it untranslated?" That's something users could be allowed to decide for themselves, by giving them the data instead of the interpretation. Rampart is an example where you've made an incorrect call IMHO -- no existing ports on other platforms duplicate the untranslated content in the Famicom version.

I don't mean in any way to detract from all the work you've put into this, which is hugely appreciated. But right now, it sort of feels like the list is meant to steer us toward certain games and away from others: these are games that you personally feel deserve a translator's attention, because they're unique to the Famicom and/or aren't in English elsewhere; these are games that don't, because a game sharing the same name was localized on other systems, and you personally feel they're too similar to justify a fresh translation on the Famicom.

I don't see how distinguishing Rampart in the list can be done in anything even approaching an objective fashion, unless, again, you expect me to go through every single console port (and, by extrapolation, every single game) and pick apart the differences individually. The fact that Rampart was released in arcades (and NES, I still need to note that) is enough for what the list intends.

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That makes the list less useful and more prone to errors. The main data columns of a list like this should be as objective and flexible as possible (IMHO), with editorial commentary saved for a non-sortable column. I do care what you think (sincerely!), but it shouldn't pre-empt my ability to use the list to create data sets useful to whatever I'm trying to find out at that moment.

I think it's already as objective as possible. Going back to Rampart, it sounds like you want me to be less objective, by digging into specific console ports and listing what makes each of them different.

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To the reader, it's not at all obvious which is the case. Same with Championship Lode Runner: does "Released on computer" mean the Famicom version has Japanese text? Flappy says "No English text", but it was released on a bunch of computers.

The idea seems to be that "Released on X" means the Famicom version has Japanese text, and the version on platform X is an alternative that's been localized. But I don't think Championship Lode Runner or Astro Robo Sasa have any Japanese text.

If a game was released on other platforms, whether it has Japanese text or not is irrelevant (for the purposes of the list). If that's one of your concerns, I can make a note of that on the About tab. Only games that were unreleased in English in any form were checked for Japanese text. I originally wasn't going to check for Japanese text at all, but I realized late into making it that listing a bunch of games as "untranslated" even though they were 100% in English was silly. :)

As for Flappy, it was released on multiple systems, but never in English-speaking territories (unless I'm wrong). That's why I checked and confirmed that there was no Japanese text in the game - if it were released in English, there would be no point (to me) in checking it.

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("Released on Wii Virtual Console" is also confusing. Did Nintendo do anything to localize Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa and Ninja Jajamaru-kun? If not, and both games still have Japanese text or title screens, why are they listed as officially translated?)

That's a really good point - there were a lot of games that were released with Japanese text on Virtual Console for SNES, and on PSN for PS1. Why GungHo decided to bring over a bunch of Mahjong PS1 games and leave them as-is is really beyond me. :( I'll go back over the VC games and make sure that they were actually localized; if not, I'll note it as such.

Again, I really, really appreciate your feedback. :)

I'd guess it just means "official" release is available.

At the least, they had to write a localized Operations Guide (digital manual).
There was Puyo-Puyo 2 for Mega Drive as well. Menus translated through OG only.

Right, I didn't realize until I started the SNES/PS1 lists that I needed to be more specific when it came to VC stuff. :)

62
Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 14, 2016, 01:04:22 pm »
For example, sorting by "Untranslated?" gives 90% of the unlocalized games, but then games like Rampart -- which is totally different from the arcade version, and unique to the Famicom -- get lumped in with the officially localized games and are easy to overlook.

That is absolutely the point here, yes. There will be edge cases, but I don't consider Rampart to be one of them, after looking it over again. The Famicom release is expanded from the arcade and NES versions, but it's still the same game. I do need to note that there's an existing (different) NES version, though. I'll have to go home to do that, I don't think I can make a line break within a cell on mobile. :D

If you know of any other possible exceptions, though, let me know. As it is, "this is the same game as the arcade release but is a little different" is really outside of the scope of the list. :)

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One thing I'd strongly suggest, though, is dividing the "Other" column into two separate columns -- one for noting if a game has no Japanese text, and the other for noting if it has a translated port on another platform. Right now multiplatform arcade games with no Japanese text, like Galaxian or Chack'n Pop, are treated the same way as text-heavy games that have translations on other systems, like Lord of Darkness. It'd be good to be able to group all games with no Japanese text, regardless of whether they were released on other platforms.

I keep going over this, and I keep not seeing the point of what you want. Why does this matter? It may sound like I'm being flippant, but I'd really like to hear what you think. As it stands, though, I'm not really seeing a benefit to doing what you're suggesting here.

I see you've done a Super Famicom list as well.
Would Cosmo Gang: The Puzzle and Pac-Attack count as the same game?
Genocide 2 was a port of a computer game. I don't know if it was a western game or not though.
Wasn't one of the Super Power League games localized as Sporting News Baseball?

Thanks as always for your feedback, KingMike. :)

Cosmo Gang: The Puzzle looks like a mistake on my part - only Cosmo Gang: The Video had an English-language release, but I listed that for both of them. I'll fix it when I get home tonight (or whenever I remember). It's strange that No-Intro doesn't list Pac-Attack as a clone - I guess they considered it different enough.
Genocide 2 was released on PC and X68k, but only in Japan and South Korea, as far as I can tell. It's odd though, it really seems like a Western game.
You're right about Sporting News Power Baseball, and it's very strange that the usual sites I've checked don't mention it at all. I guess that, again, it's different enough. I'll fix that later too.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 13, 2016, 03:24:41 pm »
These lists are great -- thanks a lot for preparing them. It's pretty humbling to realize that over half of the SNES/Super Famicom library is still hidden behind a language barrier. OTOH, the progress made on the NES library is very impressive.

Thanks! :) It is indeed nice to have it all laid out in one place. And I really appreciate your feedback.

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One thought: do you think it might be worth differentiating between "partial translation" and "partial re-translation"? When I'm sorting by fan translation, it'd be helpful, though of course I could just download the spreadsheet and use better sorting filters locally (better than Google Docs offers to non-editing viewers). But seeing "Translated 20xx" for games like Double Dragon III and Sqoon throws me off a bit.

Maybe I don't know what you mean, but I think it works fine as is. Any row that has the "Official Release" field filled out already has an official English release for the system. Therefore, any fan translation listed in its own field would've been done as a retranslation of the original.

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I also think the "Officially Untranslated" column could/should still get a "Yes" -- or at least a "Yes (NES)" -- if the game in question has only been translated on a different platform. Sometimes the Famicom version could be different enough that they're really not the same game.

I think being specific in the "Officially Untranslated" column would be redundant, since it's already in the "Other" column. In the case of ports/remakes that are significantly different (FF3, FE1), I left it as officially untranslated, but I made that exception pretty rarely. The major point of these lists is to highlight "new" games, that aren't available in English at all.

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BTW on that note, Chack'n Pop was also released on SG-1000, and that version is far, far better than the NES or MSX versions. There's Japanese text in the SG-1000 version (which I translated), but I don't remember any in the NES version...?

I really don't know! I'll have to play all the versions and see. :)

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 12, 2016, 03:36:08 am »
RHDN has "Tom Sawyer no Bouken" as "Square no Tom Sawyer".

Those are two separate games. Tom Sawyer no Bouken was released in English.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 11, 2016, 07:56:00 pm »
A list exists on RHDN's wiki for translation requests which sort of parallels to this thread... Consider expanding upon it:
http://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Translations_Request_List#Nintendo_Entertainment_System_.2F_Famicom_.2F_Famicom_Disk_System

Nah.

EDIT: The two lists really serve separate purposes - the one you linked has a lot of games that are already in English (however butchered the localization might have been, or however major the changes were in the console port). It's also not comprehensive, and serves more as a wish list (admittedly, an extremely large wish list).

More importantly, the control freak in me shakes his head in horror at the thought of someone else editing my stuff. :)

Some links to the spreadsheets on that page would be a good idea, though. I'll leave that to someone else, since I really struggle with making wiki pages look nice. :D Anyone has my permission to do so, for what it's worth.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 11, 2016, 03:31:05 pm »
Hey, check out this old thread.

Over the weekend I made yet another list, this time for Super Famicom games.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxTKOfPrJU4jzIuAXRAIN5eyToFZTjVpV9nhD70Z398/edit

As with the others, I was pretty strict on what's considered "Japanese text"... A few games only had Japanese in the title screen, or in one case, a single sign in the background. If nothing else, it'll get another translation made and pad someone's profile here on RHDN. :)

And as always, suggestions and corrections are welcome - I'm sure I got a lot of things wrong here.

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Personal Projects / Re: [GBA] Magical Vacation English Translation
« on: June 15, 2016, 02:39:51 pm »
FYI, fixes for this game in mGBA may be incoming now that it's been translated. https://twitter.com/endrift/status/740838578360614912

It's nice when ROM hacks and translations end up improving emulation. Usually it's the opposite. :)

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Gaming Discussion / Re: Comparing game localizations
« on: April 15, 2016, 07:38:41 pm »

I've been working on the next Legends of Localization book about EarthBound (you can sign up for release notification here: http://legendsoflocalization.com/book ), and it's going to be HUGE. I'm expecting it to be between 300 and 400 pages, yikes.

Anyway, every so often I have questions that I have trouble answering myself so I thought I'd post some of them here once in a while if that's okay.

Right now I'm trying to think of what games in the 90s had alcohol censored in some way, whether it was bars turning to cafes or actual alcohol changing to something else. All that comes to mind right now is FF4 and FF6, but I know there's a lot more than that!

I definitely remember a drunk guy in Brave Fencer Musashi having had "a little too much caffeine"

EDIT: found a (pretty insufferable) video: https://youtu.be/ZgNcgMKp_Mc?t=525

ANOTHER EDIT: Japanese version: https://youtu.be/2Gu-T8HQsDo?t=324

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Gaming Discussion / Re: Front Mission 5 patch
« on: April 12, 2016, 10:34:11 am »
When a site disappears, look on Internet Archive first. Often, even downloads are preserved there.

In this case, archive.org was blocked by the site's robots.txt.

I'll make a note to look around for the FM2 patch later today. Not having any mirrors for their patch was definitely short-sighted on the team's part.

April 12, 2016, 09:59:13 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Weeeeeeell I was able to find a couple of older patches (Pre-Eng2 and Patch2), as well as the event script, but not the most recent patch. The site's only been down for a couple months, so every single link I could find just points back to the site.

Here's some helpful links in case anyone else wants to search further?

https://archive.is/0XK78 (outdated, but the only mirror I could find)

https://api.vtapi.net/en/file/bae5f325c343ea952010a703fa3b21957a3c86927b7b3f08f01f46ae5d114be7/analysis/

But, I think at this point it's up to somebody who already has it on their hard drive (maybe Alcahest or reyvgm, or someone on front-mission.org if you know Russian).

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And from the options menu when switching Stereo and Monoaural but the game spelled Monoaural as "Monaural", can it be read as "Monoaural" or  "Mono" if the text are limited?

"Monaural" is correct.

71
ROM Hacking Discussion / Re: Proposal: IPS Revision for CRC checking
« on: April 01, 2016, 10:26:20 am »
It is the reason why I like IPS personally. That it doesn't ensure file identity.

Same. As long as there's a prompt, or a (disabled by default) selectable option to continue anyways, then I'm fine. The two BPS patchers I've tried don't have anything like that - they just refuse to work.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: Front Mission 5 patch
« on: March 31, 2016, 09:55:58 pm »
I found the original patch in a Russian torrent that's floating around. The lengths we go to sometimes!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19013694/patch4-complete.zip

I can also upload the patch to RHDN if there are no objections by staff.

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Newcomer's Board / Re: Tim and clut
« on: March 31, 2016, 12:11:48 pm »
I wouldn't say you're in a good position to be making fun of people's names, pal

Hahahaha that is a Quality Own right there, people

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: March 31, 2016, 12:06:55 pm »
I may be wrong here, since I haven't played Mamono Hunter Yohko for ages, but I don't remember there being any Japanese text in that game, only 'cutscenes/still images' of sorts without any dialogue whatsoever. :)

Thanks for the feedback. :) I'm counting the title screen as "Japanese text" for that one. It's silly, but title screen-only translations have been done before.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: March 31, 2016, 01:23:28 am »
Super Fantasy Zone was physically only released in Japan and Europe, but was released internationally on Wii Virtual Console.

Eh, as long as it was released in Europe then it's fine. People can play it on emulators anyways, which is mostly the point here.

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And Japanese Marble Madness (by Tengen) is a different port than the EA version released in the west.

You're right, I'll make a note of it. They're listed as the same game in the No-Intro database, despite a nine-month-old comment stating otherwise. :)

Thanks again for going over this. :D

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: March 30, 2016, 09:23:51 pm »
I made a similar list, but for Mega Drive games. SFC is a lot more work, but is on its way. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wdIvWfaiuq-NCO1taA1kkPk-o6-XkMNOOkG9bEDp9HI/

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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: March 20, 2016, 05:49:28 pm »
What was your methodology in making this list? I found an SFC game list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Famicom_games

The problem though is that it also includes games that were also released in the United States.

I'm going off the parent/clone lists on the No-Intro DAT-o-matic. http://datomatic.no-intro.org/ I've also got lists for SFC and MD in progress.

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Newcomer's Board / Re: Patching on carts using Retron
« on: March 20, 2016, 03:47:23 am »
This can be a problem since you can not manipulate with the cart like you can with the ROM file.

Not only can not see the size, you also can not see the code, unless you scan the cart back into a ROM file again. You thus can not calculate the CRC (checksum id) of your rom. Since the header might not be the only issue.

Usually carts don't have headers by default, since this is a leftover by the copier, but you never know.

It can be another problem, if the patch is made for the headered rom, and you have a cart without a header. You then need to use a PC in any case, to patch to a headered rom file.
You need to get the rom file of your game and patch it correctly (header, region). This is not a problem on a PC, where you have multiple options.

Once the correct rom is patched and the hack works and is tested (on emulators), make another IPS using Lunar IPS by comparing the hack with the original non headered rom. This IPS should then work with your cart.

In any case, if you buy a cart, it doesn't matter if it is headered or not, you can make a working IPS in any case.

You can even make multiple IPS files. For instance create IPS by comparing (using Lunar IPS) a working hack (rom file) with US, EU and J original rom files, all headered and non headered. You will thus get 6 IPS files. Once of them must work with your cart on Retron.

You are also required to do the same if the patch on the site is UPS or Xdelta patch (instead of IPS).

To clarify:

Headers aren't part of the game or cartridge itself - the header (just some information about the ROM's size and type) is added to the ROM file by the copier tool when the ROM is dumped. So the cartridges the Retron plays will never have a header.

The problem is, a lot of patches are intended to be used on a headered ROM. And, there's not an easy way around that. You can:

  • modify the patch itself and subtract 512 bytes from every address it references (a tool to do just such a thing would be pretty simple...),
  • or you can do like vortex said: patch a headered ROM, remove the header, then create a new patch using that ROM.
  • Or wait for someone else to do either of those. :)

Either way, you'd have a patch that works with cartridges on Retron.

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Gaming Discussion / Re: Does retron 5 have a purpose?
« on: March 17, 2016, 11:48:07 pm »
I guess the point is what you said initially, jink: using actual carts. If you already have a cartridge collection, having a way to play them on an HDMI TV with no hassle is nice (aside from something ridiculous like an Analogue NT or whatever). Or, if you really, really have an aversion to using ROMs, but I can't imagine anyone on romhacking.net having that problem.

Other than that... it's still just an emulator in a box. Might as well buy an Ouya, they're a lot cheaper. :)

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Gaming Discussion / Re: Does retron 5 have a purpose?
« on: March 17, 2016, 06:16:42 pm »
I don't really get it either, especially since it's all emulated anyways. There are a ton of emulator-on-TV options these days.

If I wanted to play games on a TV with high accuracy, I'd get an EverDrive or similar.

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