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Gaming Discussion / Re: List of untranslated Famicom games
« on: July 15, 2016, 11:30:21 am »I disagree -- there are some big changes, easily enough so that Famicom Rampart offers a unique experience that's completely different from any other version released. This isn't some small graphical change, but a real reimagining of the game, with quests and things that are nowhere to be found in the arcade (or NES) version:
I only watched a couple of Rampart videos yesterday, so I'll have to play them to be sure. But, I don't think that better graphics and extra gameplay modes is enough to fully differentiate it. Almost every console port is different in some way, and I think that documenting all of those differences is beyond the point of the "list of untranslated games" list.
(Like I said before, if you see another game that you think is warranted, let me know and I'll look at it. As it is, though, I think that only FF3 and FE1 are exceptions right now, simply because they were remade years later, rather than ported.)Plus, I could go beyond that: what about all the games that were translated, but done badly? Like, games where stuff got cut, or changed. Should those be documented? Should Birdie Try be listed as untranslated, because it was released in the U.S. with a bunch of robots added? Should I at least have mentioned that? Should I go past even that, and look at all the fan translations (Brigandine GE) that were done badly too? In the end I went with being as strict as possible, in a (failed, apparently) attempt to limit the amount of subjectivity that went into it.
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I'd like to be able to use this list to answer a question like "What games on the Famicom have no Japanese text but weren't officially released in the US, regardless of any releases on other platforms?" Right now I can't do that.
I think that your use of "regardless of any releases on other platforms" spells out the difference we have: you're looking for answers to questions that I didn't ask here. My question was "what games on this platform have not been released in English, in any form", which is a very different question.
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I think this highlights the problem I'm having with the way the list is organized: right now, a couple important fields depend on highly personal judgment calls, and/or pre-existing knowledge of the Famicom library (so that I already know Galaxian is an early arcade game with no Japanese text, and Lord of Darkness is a text-heavy sim). But both of those things invite unnecessary errors, on the part of the compiler or end user.
There are always going to be a few judgement calls, and I see no difference at all between Galaxian and Lord of Darkness, in that both were released in English-speaking territories.
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With more granular categories or values, there'd be no need for subjective judgment calls like "Is this game different enough from the arcade/MSX version/whatever to justify calling it untranslated?" That's something users could be allowed to decide for themselves, by giving them the data instead of the interpretation. Rampart is an example where you've made an incorrect call IMHO -- no existing ports on other platforms duplicate the untranslated content in the Famicom version.
I don't mean in any way to detract from all the work you've put into this, which is hugely appreciated. But right now, it sort of feels like the list is meant to steer us toward certain games and away from others: these are games that you personally feel deserve a translator's attention, because they're unique to the Famicom and/or aren't in English elsewhere; these are games that don't, because a game sharing the same name was localized on other systems, and you personally feel they're too similar to justify a fresh translation on the Famicom.
I don't see how distinguishing Rampart in the list can be done in anything even approaching an objective fashion, unless, again, you expect me to go through every single console port (and, by extrapolation, every single game) and pick apart the differences individually. The fact that Rampart was released in arcades (and NES, I still need to note that) is enough for what the list intends.
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That makes the list less useful and more prone to errors. The main data columns of a list like this should be as objective and flexible as possible (IMHO), with editorial commentary saved for a non-sortable column. I do care what you think (sincerely!), but it shouldn't pre-empt my ability to use the list to create data sets useful to whatever I'm trying to find out at that moment.
I think it's already as objective as possible. Going back to Rampart, it sounds like you want me to be less objective, by digging into specific console ports and listing what makes each of them different.
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To the reader, it's not at all obvious which is the case. Same with Championship Lode Runner: does "Released on computer" mean the Famicom version has Japanese text? Flappy says "No English text", but it was released on a bunch of computers.
The idea seems to be that "Released on X" means the Famicom version has Japanese text, and the version on platform X is an alternative that's been localized. But I don't think Championship Lode Runner or Astro Robo Sasa have any Japanese text.
If a game was released on other platforms, whether it has Japanese text or not is irrelevant (for the purposes of the list). If that's one of your concerns, I can make a note of that on the About tab. Only games that were unreleased in English in any form were checked for Japanese text. I originally wasn't going to check for Japanese text at all, but I realized late into making it that listing a bunch of games as "untranslated" even though they were 100% in English was silly.
As for Flappy, it was released on multiple systems, but never in English-speaking territories (unless I'm wrong). That's why I checked and confirmed that there was no Japanese text in the game - if it were released in English, there would be no point (to me) in checking it.
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("Released on Wii Virtual Console" is also confusing. Did Nintendo do anything to localize Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa and Ninja Jajamaru-kun? If not, and both games still have Japanese text or title screens, why are they listed as officially translated?)
That's a really good point - there were a lot of games that were released with Japanese text on Virtual Console for SNES, and on PSN for PS1. Why GungHo decided to bring over a bunch of Mahjong PS1 games and leave them as-is is really beyond me.
I'll go back over the VC games and make sure that they were actually localized; if not, I'll note it as such.Again, I really, really appreciate your feedback.
I'd guess it just means "official" release is available.
At the least, they had to write a localized Operations Guide (digital manual).
There was Puyo-Puyo 2 for Mega Drive as well. Menus translated through OG only.
Right, I didn't realize until I started the SNES/PS1 lists that I needed to be more specific when it came to VC stuff.
