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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on May 24, 2021, 12:52:42 pm

Title: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: RHDNBot on May 24, 2021, 12:52:42 pm
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2541a.png) (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5923/) (http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2541b.png) (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5923/)

Update By: pancakes

When MOTHER was localized into Earth Bound (later re-titled EarthBound Beginnings), it underwent unnecessary changes and censorship, as well as a script that contained errors and omitted references. These issues were resolved in 2011 by Tomato's fan translation for the GBA port of the game, which provided a more accurate and natural-sounding script.

MOTHER Restored brings the fan translation to the NES and reverts the graphical changes made during localization for fans who want to play a more faithful version of the original game, which boasts higher audio quality than its GBA counterpart.

Unlike previous attempts to replace EarthBound Beginnings' dialogue, this hack repoints virtually all of the text in the game. This allowed the fan translation to be included in its entirety without any cuts to dialogue, battle text, or descriptions. To make the game even more faithful, names of characters, locations, items and more have been made as close to the Japanese version as possible. Graphics that were altered during localization, whether due to censorship or any other reason, have also been restored so that they can be experienced exactly as they were intended.

Overall, the goal of this hack is to offer a more authentic way to play MOTHER in English on its original console.

Please visit the project page here: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5923/ and enjoy!

RHDN Project Page (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5923/)

Relevant Link (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5923/)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Googie on May 24, 2021, 05:17:44 pm
I'm gonna have to try this out, baby! :D :cookie:
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: gamingcat02261991 on May 24, 2021, 06:31:15 pm
To be honest, regarding the sprite changes between Japan and the West, I once saw on The Cutting Room Floor that the Wii U rerelease of EarthBound Beginnings had some of the originally altered sprites unchanged from the Japanese Famicom version compared to the unreleased-yet-completed English NES version.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Josephine Lithius on May 25, 2021, 05:38:46 am
There are just way too many of these hacks for MOTHER and Final Fantasy game claiming to be "the one true, faithful translation and the like.

Would all you nerds just put your noggins together and actually make a "one true hack" to rule them all?  I'm sure most of you are reasonable people who work well with others!  If not, there's always the bribery route…
You'd be surprised how effective a free pizza coupon can be~!  (;
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: FCandChill on May 25, 2021, 10:01:45 am
There are just way too many of these hacks for MOTHER and Final Fantasy game claiming to be "the one true, faithful translation and the like.

There's all of these Final Fantasy retranslations, and yet there's not a retranslation for Final Fantasy I. A localization prototype was released recently released that reveals some content was changed...

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Final_Fantasy

I can only assume one never materialized because FF Hackster doesn't support ever single line of text.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Green Jerry on May 25, 2021, 10:56:38 am
There's all of these Final Fantasy retranslations, and yet there's not a retranslation for Final Fantasy I.
Uh, there is one, Chaos Rush made a translation of the Japanese version (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4868/) of the game
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: FCandChill on May 25, 2021, 11:12:56 am
Uh, there is one, Chaos Rush made a translation of the Japanese version (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4868/) of the game

Wow... that's pretty neat. Thanks. I never would've though that it would be retranslated after all these years.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: nejimakipiyo on May 25, 2021, 01:41:01 pm
This looks very promising! I'm always interested in some translation improvements, so I'll be looking forward to giving this a try soon.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: KobaBeach on May 25, 2021, 08:30:41 pm
Since this is basically Tomato's translation with Japanese terms I'm glad it's a translation made with experience. I, myself, am a fan of the English prototype's localization though, so names like Spookane, Podunk etc have some nostalgia for me. I'll play MOTHER 1+2 for that I suppose, it even has difficulty nerfing mode if I'm not mistaken.

There are just way too many of these hacks for MOTHER and Final Fantasy game claiming to be "the one true, faithful translation and the like.
My biggest problem is that a lot of them do it out of spite for the original translator, who most likely didn't have the context or tools available that people these days do and then try to make it like a super dry, literal, stilted translation which I feel isn't an ideal way to translate. There's a lot of nuance in language and words, and yeeting Japanese straight into English doesn't really work the same way say, Spanish and Portuguese would. A lot of the times, decent writing ability is necessary to make it flow as close as you can to the original Japanese text, as direct, 1 to 1 translations usually don't do it as much justice.

Pointing this out though: Fully literal =/= ideal is my opinion, debates on localization and translation are literally endless outside of like anime fan pedantry, it's been going on since time immemorial for ancient literature. I'd wager that translation is an art and not a science, so "wrong ways" aren't really much of a thing outside of like Pokémon Diamond and Jade. You (yes you reading this thread) are more than free to disagree with me.

I know this is a joke post but I just had to soapbox srry

Continuing the earlier posts, Chaos Rush's retranslations of FF1-3 seem perfectly serviceable, and I think a 4 re-translation and maybe a touch up of 5 should be alright if we want to stick to SNES games, I think 6 is mostly alright apart from the cliff scene and other requisite censorship because Papa Ninty. 7 desperately needs a retranslation that doesn't go full on Avalanche-gumi (https://i.imgur.com/IOJXQxo.png), not sure if anyone's working on any, I think they were, for the Eidos PC port, but not sure. 2 lazy 2 look up (º﹃º)
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Jorpho on May 25, 2021, 09:50:11 pm
There are just way too many of these hacks for MOTHER and Final Fantasy game claiming to be "the one true, faithful translation and the like.
I kind of agree. I'd like to finally play through Mother at some point, but the options keep multiplying. The only thing that's clear is that the GBA version is probably not the way to go due to the musical downgrade.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on May 26, 2021, 12:31:21 am
Just need some way to insert the EarthBound Beginnings title screen from the Earthbound Beginnings: Consistent Version hack in here and it would have been perfect.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 26, 2021, 10:18:53 am
There are just way too many of these hacks for MOTHER and Final Fantasy game claiming to be "the one true, faithful translation and the like.

Would all you nerds just put your noggins together and actually make a "one true hack" to rule them all?  I'm sure most of you are reasonable people who work well with others!  If not, there's always the bribery route…
You'd be surprised how effective a free pizza coupon can be~!  (;

I kind of agree. I'd like to finally play through Mother at some point, but the options keep multiplying. The only thing that's clear is that the GBA version is probably not the way to go due to the musical downgrade.

Well, there are really only two translations for MOTHER, the official one and Tomato's. My patch only changes the names of a number of enemies and items that Tomato renamed to match EarthBound, as well as the zoo. The dialogue itself is unchanged from his translation.

Everyone has their own preferred way of handling things, and no one will ever agree completely, but that's the beauty of ROM hacking. You can make your own changes to suit your preferences.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Kallisto on May 26, 2021, 12:27:21 pm
I think its just a lack of awareness of other games that require some modifications because usually the popular titles overshadow others.

There is still games that hasn't been fully documented via TCRF on whether or not if content needs to be restored.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on May 26, 2021, 09:48:45 pm
I have some more suggestions:
1. Original weapon and enemy names (Plastic Bat, Wooden Bat, Wally, etc.)
2. EarthBound-esque battle text (<number> HP of damage to <enemy>, etc.)
3. Add the diamond after each button prompt in the dialogue.
4. <enemy> became quiet! Yeah, I understand that <enemy> became tame is meant to be referencing EarthBound, but I still kinda prefer <enemy> became quiet.
5. Make the ATM machines have text that are similar to the US version of EarthBound.
Also, I feel like hacks like this definitely has some time getting used to with a walkthrough due to its changed names.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: vince94 on May 27, 2021, 10:55:02 am
It looks like the Sky Yddet is now "Sky Kuma" which isn't even accurate to the original's "Sky Bearu." Wally is now "Older Man", the Bag Lady is now "Older Lady", and the Hippie is now "Young Man"... These kinds of changes just make stuff not as fun/take you out of the experience imo.
I think that a lot of these kinds of hacks are "okay here's my ideal customized version of this game that I personally would want to play" and that's cool, just... This one's not for me. That said, how did you repoint the text? Did you create a script dumping/insertion tool? This seems to be the first hack you've posted and something on this level is impressive for a first hack. I attempted a hack kind of like this around 2012/2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfSFCZQqhs) and manual repointing was extremely hard.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 27, 2021, 11:59:40 am
It looks like the Sky Yddet is now "Sky Kuma" which isn't even accurate to the original's "Sky Bearu." Wally is now "Older Man", the Bag Lady is now "Older Lady", and the Hippie is now "Young Man"... Some of these changes just make stuff not as fun/take you out of the experience imo.
I think that a lot of these kinds of hacks are "okay here's my ideal customized version of this game that I personally would want to play" and that's cool, just... This one's not for me. That said, how did you repoint the text? Did you create a script dumping/insertion tool? This seems to be the first hack you've posted and something on this level is impressive for a first hack. I attempted a hack kind of like this around 2012/2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfSFCZQqhs) and manual repointing was extremely hard.


In the Japanese version, bears go by the Japanese word for bear (Kuma) on the overworld, and become the English word in Magicant (Bear and Sky Bear). Because of this, I've just reversed them for English. I felt like this would be a more accurate way to handle the names. If I made it Bear, then there'd be two enemies in the game with the same name. I understood while making these changes that there'd be people who wouldn't like them, especially for enemies like the hippie, but my goal was to make the names as close to what Itoi named them as possible.

Yes, I dumped and re-inserted the text.

Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Tomato on May 27, 2021, 04:01:07 pm
I dunno how well known it is but there are other gameplay differences between Mother 1 and EB0 that should be taken into account too. One quick example that comes to mind is this: https://earthboundcentral.com/2011/02/eb0-vs-m1-magicant-caves/
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 27, 2021, 06:39:02 pm
I dunno how well known it is but there are other gameplay differences between Mother 1 and EB0 that should be taken into account too. One quick example that comes to mind is this: https://earthboundcentral.com/2011/02/eb0-vs-m1-magicant-caves/

Yeah, there's actually a lot of really minor differences as well. I've opted to keep the big ones like the run button, descriptions, and the revised ending since they're such good improvements, but I could definitely try implementing stuff like the original maps.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Chicken Knife on May 29, 2021, 02:51:40 am
Hello! I played just a bit of your hack and came across a few issues. I thought I'd point them out, as I think that there's probably a lot of additional ones that you may want to root out.

(https://i.imgur.com/3Z0G1qG.png)
"that could" from line 2 here could fit on line 1.

(https://i.imgur.com/pvaMkyv.png)
"by the" here from line 3 could fit on line 2. Then "soars the" could be moved up as well.

(https://i.imgur.com/DFLvO9p.png)
Worn-OutBat here looks pretty messy. I imagine this might be a character restriction issue, but something like Worn Bat or Shabby Bat would come across a lot better than combining Out and Bat into one word.

(https://i.imgur.com/3JBPW7f.png)
Here, I was seeing an odd issue where Ninten's HP box became a solid, non-flashing blue for the remainder of the battle. Seems like some kind of glitch, although I might be wrong.

That's probably all I'm going to play for now, so I recommend you give the game a playthrough with those kinds of things in mind. The little details matter!


Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 29, 2021, 10:02:18 am
Hello! I played just a bit of your hack and came across a few issues. I thought I'd point them out, as I think that there's probably a lot of additional ones that you may want to root out.

I intentionally put breaks in those places in order to make the text read more naturally, rather than just fit in all the text that I could. I actually played through a number of times, obsessing over little things like that, but it's hard to determine the best method of handling it. Having the dialogue pause on words like "by the" doesn't seem right to me.

Worn-OutBat here looks pretty messy. I imagine this might be a character restriction issue, but something like Worn Bat or Shabby Bat would come across a lot better than combining Out and Bat into one word.

There's items in every version of this game that had to be reduced or merged into one word to fit into the 11 character limit, but I'll consider changing it to Worn Bat for the next update.

Here, I was seeing an odd issue where Ninten's HP box became a solid, non-flashing blue for the remainder of the battle. Seems like some kind of glitch, although I might be wrong.

That's normal game behaviour, HP turns blue when it's low.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Chicken Knife on May 29, 2021, 11:55:53 am
I intentionally put breaks in those places in order to make the text read more naturally, rather than just fit in all the text that I could. I actually played through a number of times, obsessing over little things like that, but it's hard to determine the best method of handling it. Having the dialogue pause on words like "by the" doesn't seem right to me.

There's items in every version of this game that had to be reduced or merged into one word to fit into the 11 character limit, but I'll consider changing it to Worn Bat for the next update.

That's normal game behaviour, HP turns blue when it's low.
I guess I didn't recall the HP turning solid blue like that. It's a little odd that sometimes it's a flashing blue and other times there is no flash.

Regarding the formatting, I don't necessarily see the rhyme or reason behind your choice of how long each line is going to be. It comes across to me as quite messy the way it is. I'd strongly recommend formatting the text in a way where the words in individual sentences fill out a line completely unless a word doesn't fit, and then goes on the next line. That seems to to be fairly standard among official translations, and the absence of that standard formatting is very hard to live with, for me at least. I'm sure your choices were knowing and deliberate, but that doesn't mean that the effect won't come across to many users as unprofessional.

Having to handle these kinds of matters for my own translation projects, the real choice is whether or not short connected sentences that form a single thought should get separated onto their own lines. Japanese formatting tends to favor each sentence strictly being on a different line, while English formatting formatting tends to not separate short, connected sentences appearing in a text box.
 
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 29, 2021, 12:40:28 pm
I guess I didn't recall the HP turning solid blue like that. It's a little odd that sometimes it's a flashing blue and other times there is no flash.

Regarding the formatting, I don't necessarily see the rhyme or reason behind your choice of how long each line is going to be. It comes across to me as quite messy the way it is. I'd strongly recommend formatting the text in a way where the words in individual sentences fill out a line completely unless a word doesn't fit, and then goes on the next line. That seems to to be fairly standard among official translations, and the absence of that standard formatting is very hard to live with, for me at least.

From my research, based on having to handle these matters in my own translation projects, the real choice is whether or not short connected sentences that form a single thought should get separated onto their own lines. Japanese formatting tends to favor each sentence strictly being on a different line, while English formatting formatting tends to not separate short, connected sentences appearing in a text box.

I tried to handle cases like this similarly to how it was done in the localization of EarthBound, and the fan translations of 1 and 3. Here's an example from the GBA patch: (https://puu.sh/HKGmU.png)
(The yellow lines indicate where the text pauses for a button prompt.)
If I were to use your method of just fitting every last word possible, then there'd be cases where a new line would only contain a few words, or even a single word. I think that's more sloppy than putting the pauses in places where a sentence could possibly end naturally.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Chicken Knife on May 29, 2021, 03:33:51 pm
Ok, I see what you are going for. I still think that my method is more standard, and I disagree as far as what looks messy, but I can at least see the methodology behind what you are doing.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on May 30, 2021, 09:44:18 am
Ok, I see what you are going for. I still think that my method is more standard, and I disagree as far as what looks messy, but I can at least see the methodology behind what you are doing.
If you think it's more standard for NES titles then I'll go through the script again. I don't think there's a perfect way of handling it, though. I think I'm going to do it case-by-case.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on May 30, 2021, 10:28:36 am
Also, I prefer how the ATM text looks like in EarthBound and vanilla Mother 1. Having the mixed case text and detailed explanations is like modern design where everything is as user-friendly as possible, and therefore, it just sounded more natural to me.

Edit: It just make more sense this way, since EarthBound Beginnings took place in the modern times, after all.

Edit 2: I want the CD in ATM machines to be changed to ATM for consistency, since the Cash Card was changed to ATM Card here. Earthbound Beginnings: Consistent Version has a similar change.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Chicken Knife on May 30, 2021, 11:13:02 am
If you think it's more standard for NES titles then I'll go through the script again. I don't think there's a perfect way of handling it, though. I think I'm going to do it case-by-case.
Let's not be hasty. The fact is, I'm not sure how much standardization there is on this particular issue in the NES era, because the NES RPGS that have been localized seem to generally have the capacity to present longer sentences in dialogue boxes. I was kind of surprised how short the chunks of text in your Mother 1 translation were between input waits. I would have assumed that you could have included more complete sentences in between input waits given the size of the dialogue box.

If there is a severe restriction around how long a sentence can be, I'm not sure if there's enough precedent to determine standards on the NES. I never had to deal with this issue on the NES DQ games I worked on. I did have to deal with this issue regularly however on the GBC DQ Monsters game, where the amount of text that could display in the dialogue box was tiny in comparison. In that case, I went with the method I prescribed to you, and didn't mind the presence of sentence remnants on subsequent lines. I can't say I did a ton of research on how other GBC RPGS handled their text formatting, but I did look at a couple for a basic sense.

Going back to Mother 1, if you can in fact fit more complete sentences in between input waits, that's the route I would go. If you can't, I'd continue to think on it before making any big changes.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on June 01, 2021, 11:05:49 pm
There's items in every version of this game that had to be reduced or merged into one word to fit into the 11 character limit, but I'll consider changing it to Worn Bat for the next update.
Maybe change it to WornOut Bat, make the game easier and apply some of my previous suggestions, and it would be perfect.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: pancakes on June 02, 2021, 10:30:43 am
Let's not be hasty. The fact is, I'm not sure how much standardization there is on this particular issue in the NES era, because the NES RPGS that have been localized seem to generally have the capacity to present longer sentences in dialogue boxes. I was kind of surprised how short the chunks of text in your Mother 1 translation were between input waits. I would have assumed that you could have included more complete sentences in between input waits given the size of the dialogue box.

If there is a severe restriction around how long a sentence can be, I'm not sure if there's enough precedent to determine standards on the NES. I never had to deal with this issue on the NES DQ games I worked on. I did have to deal with this issue regularly however on the GBC DQ Monsters game, where the amount of text that could display in the dialogue box was tiny in comparison. In that case, I went with the method I prescribed to you, and didn't mind the presence of sentence remnants on subsequent lines. I can't say I did a ton of research on how other GBC RPGS handled their text formatting, but I did look at a couple for a basic sense.

Going back to Mother 1, if you can in fact fit more complete sentences in between input waits, that's the route I would go. If you can't, I'd continue to think on it before making any big changes.

I did go through and polish some of the formatting. There aren't too many places where this happens in the game and I think I've chosen the best options. While it might look like there are places where I could have fit a complete sentence without button prompts, that's not the case. The game will only draw three lines of text before automatically putting in a button prompt. It's too bad I don't have the ASM knowledge to just expand the text boxes.

Also, I prefer how the ATM text looks like in EarthBound and vanilla Mother 1. Having the mixed case text and detailed explanations is like modern design where everything is as user-friendly as possible, and therefore, it just sounded more natural to me.

Edit: It just make more sense this way, since EarthBound Beginnings took place in the modern times, after all.

Edit 2: I want the CD in ATM machines to be changed to ATM for consistency, since the Cash Card was changed to ATM Card here. Earthbound Beginnings: Consistent Version has a similar change.
Maybe change it to WornOut Bat, make the game easier and apply some of my previous suggestions, and it would be perfect.

Sorry, but I'm not going to be changing the dialogue from Tomato's translation. If you prefer something a certain way, feel free to modify your own ROM. If you want to make the game easier, there are already patches available that'd probably work with this one.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on June 04, 2021, 11:36:11 pm
New idea: Could someone port this hack to the Mother 1+2 GBA remake?

Also, with walkthroughs, there's a bit of a learning curve here. For example, take a look at this part of the Magicant segment in BSulpher's walkthrough:

Quote
A note before venturing outside the walls of Magicant, if the enemy Groucho
is encountered, do nothing but Guard every round, as Groucho will soon leave
battle after saying "Hello", and he will leave behind far more Experience
for Ninten than he ever would if defeated in battle (odd I know, but take
advantage of this generosity).

I was a bit confused about what the "Groucho" enemy mentioned is. Turns out it's the Bonus Woosh, but I discovered it entirely by chance.

June 08, 2021, 04:05:34 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Anyone here for my previous request yet?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on June 14, 2021, 08:36:58 am
Anyone here to answer my previous questions yet?
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: lan-vuhoang on June 23, 2021, 09:06:17 pm
Anyone still here? I has a few ideas.
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: Bonesy on June 23, 2021, 11:57:56 pm
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=3282.0
Title: Re: ROM Hacks: MOTHER Restored - A more faithful way to play MOTHER on the NES!
Post by: marioxb on July 17, 2021, 10:59:56 pm
I'd actually prefer to see the opposite. I want someone to hack Mother 3 into "EarthBound Advance" making it 100% match the USA EarthBound, with all the same censorship changes. I actually prefer how games were ported in the 80s and 90s, Americanizing and kiddifying everything. Call me crazy, but I'm serious.