Romhacking.net

General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: FAST6191 on July 25, 2020, 12:32:43 pm

Title: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on July 25, 2020, 12:32:43 pm
Seems it is leak time again, Nintendo once more being the one and once more the hacker known as 4chan being the place it first got noted. Not sure of the size of the download and Nintendo will usually try to get rid of it where it can.

Have not had a look yet myself at anything but others have and much of it appears legit. Apparently the Wii private keys are also there which is nice to have, though the Wii was blown wide apart years ago so eh. Not sure what the arcade aspect is, though despite not being a real option I will generally hope suicide batteries are made a thing of the past here.

Seen as we deal in pulling things apart around here then should you wish to shoulder the legal burden some of this might be of interest, on the other hand 16 bit era SNES is probably going to be all the assembly code, few pointless comments and maybe some nice variable names such that a blind disassembler and a trip to http://www.romhacking.net/wiki/ or the equivalent thereof (maybe even a page of action replay/codebreaker type cheats) will do better in some ways.

Some have expressed an interest in the CAD documents (CAD = computer aided design, aka 3d modelling for real world items, or what most engineers spend 90% of the their lives doing). I don't know if it is going to be nice case models or PCB models. Cases wise I have a Vernier calliper and a micrometre so eh but PCB info might be more interesting if people are going to be playing device fixer. Personally I would be more interested in some of the prototype stuff and unreleased addons (also if any code for them can be found in games that might have been tentpoles for them).

Prototypes might also be of interest for those recreating things seen on magazines (and today littering the likes of tcrf, unseen64, gamingalexandria and so on).

iQue for those not familiar is the company/division Nintendo has for dealing with China. The ique N64 is probably the more notable, though you might have also met the DS models and handful of games. More recently a bunch of nice Chinese GBA game ports (including a couple of previously Japanese exclusives) that never quite got released dropped.

Source
https://gbatemp.net/threads/another-nintendo-leak-uploaded-online-features-betas-and-source-code-for-many-snes-games.570553/
Code: [Select]
Contents of the leak:
Full development repository for Ensata official DS emulator
\20100713cvs_backup.tar\ensata\

Full development repository for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl
\20100713cvs_backup.tar\pokemon\pm_dp_ose\

Full development repository for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, ending in March of 2006
\20100713cvs_backup.tar\pokemon\pokemon_dp\

Full personal development repository by a Diamond and Pearl dev
\20100713cvs_backup.tar\pokemon\yama_work\

Full development repository for NetCard (cancelled GBA peripheral)
\netcard.7z

iQue GBA stuff

Full development repository for Game Boy Advance BIOS
\other.7z\agb_bootrom.zip\agb_bootrom

Full development repository for Game Boy Color Boot ROM
\other.7z\agb_bootrom.zip\cgb_bootrom

Full master ROM database (America and Japan, NOT Europe) for Famicom and NES including the ROMs (and I mean everything - there’s even Nintendo World Championships 1990 and shit like that)
\other.7z\NES
\other.7z\HVC

Master ROM of Super Mario RPG

Source code to Star Fox
Source code to Star Fox 2
Source code to Link’s Awakening DX
Link’s Awakening DX bug reports
Source code to Wild Trax / Stunt Race FX
Source code to Yoshi’s Island
Source code to Mario Kart
Source code to F-Zero
Source code to TLOZ A Link to the Past
TLOZ A Link to the Past dev stuff & bug reports
Source code to Super Mario All-Stars (including Mario World?)
Source code to the Wii VC Game Boy Emulator
Some weird prototype game (“super_donkey”, from early 1993 - Yoshi’s Island style)
Super Mario Kart prototype(s)
Full development repository for a tool to upload titles to the Wii Shop Channel
“WallPaperPasswordMaker” source code
Random test program source code
Seven early 1990s tape backups
Several Super Mario World 2 prototypes - “Super Mario Bros 5: Yoshi’s Island”
eTicket signing keys for an unknown system
Private and public keys for “various arcade manufacturers”
Game Boy Advance and Iris (early 2003-era DS prototype with 1 screen) board documentation
Tons and tons of CAD documents in general relating to Nintendo products
Wii private keys?
ES/FS source code (IOS) (also a p2p/voice chat lib?)
P2p lib:
/netcard.7z/gba/depot-offline/sw/common/sdks/p2p
IOS Arm Toolchain patches:
netcard/gba/depot-offline/sw/devroot/tools
Hamtaro Ham-Hams Unite! debug build
other\CGB\B86__ハム太郎 2\Master\USA\ham2usa_020807
SuperFX Test Program (1991)
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on July 25, 2020, 02:43:50 pm
It's cool to see all the weird beta stuff, but I doubt much else of interest will arise from any of this.  (I'm still hoping to see more of that Super Mario Land 2 beta I saw exhibited around 25 years ago.)

I can't imagine why Nintendo would leave any of this stuff casually sitting around on a network share where anyone can casually log in and nab it.  My bet is that someone scrounged an old backup from a dumpster.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: nesrocks on July 25, 2020, 10:13:09 pm
It would be cool to see if the "zelda 3" project is just the finished SNES conversion or if there's some leftover from when it was meant for the NES.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on July 26, 2020, 12:10:20 am
Seems we have round 2 in as many days, though this is now many rounds in as there was a bunch more stuff a while back.

N64 stuff seems to be the order of the day. First party and their captive devs but that does mean 1080 (Snowboarding), Mario 64 (should be interesting to compare to the decompilation, few people have apparently fished out a Luigi model from it which might be interesting for those rumours), Mario Kart perhaps (MK64 is the folder name), various Zeldas (though one might be corrupt), maybe waverace, a folder called f0x so possibly starfox, animal forest (animal crossing), and a few others I don't or want to speculate the meanings for (DM64 = Dr. Mario 64 perhaps?).
Folder called marioagb (agb = advanced game boy aka GBA) is also there but don't know the contents of that one.

Sadly nothing from Rare (Perfect Dark source code would be sweet).

I am curious to see what becomes of 1080, though I would love to see a control scheme change to something more modern (it hit in 1998 and it was 1999 before Tony Hawk arrived on the scene and 2000 before SSX... also as I feel old now it was 2007 for Skate 1).
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on July 26, 2020, 12:43:28 am
I'd like to see more unreleased Japanese builds. We don't technically have Dr. Mario 64 (ported to GC in Japan), Advance Wars Days of Ruin (ported to DSi in Japan), or Wario Land 2 (only the GBC enhanced version reached Japan) in their original forms.

Keep the dream alive. Maybe one day Super Paper Mario will leak for the Gamecube knowing how close to finished it was. Data mining unearthed enough of Panel de Pon GB to suggest a proto could exist.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SCD on July 26, 2020, 03:43:17 am
I'm still hoping for the day that the beta version of Super Punch-Out!! gets leaked, so we can finally play the game with the original protagonist, including restore him back to the final release as well.

It is really interesting that Luigi was in Super Mario 64 this whole time, I wonder why they never used him for that game?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on July 26, 2020, 11:21:07 am
I'd like to see more unreleased Japanese builds. We don't technically have Dr. Mario 64 (ported to GC in Japan), Advance Wars Days of Ruin (ported to DSi in Japan), or Wario Land 2 (only the GBC enhanced version reached Japan) in their original forms.

Keep the dream alive. Maybe one day Super Paper Mario will leak for the Gamecube knowing how close to finished it was. Data mining unearthed enough of Panel de Pon GB to suggest a proto could exist.
On Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Advance Wars: Dark Conflict I thought it got a 3ds release late in the day not DSi (generally speaking the DSi had very little of any great merit that was not available in fine form on the original DS).

Also the Japanese text was present in the western games and while gated off it was playable from early on with a cheat (same cheat for most games, but generally just after the end of the overlay section will be a place where they stuff the firmware settings, set the language one to Japanese and there you go), I later made a hack and Xenesis made a better one still not long after that http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1003/
Another for Go Go Cosmo Cops which had similar issues in case some Japanese language wanting forum searcher missed it http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1008/
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: RaidouJFlo on July 26, 2020, 04:07:28 pm
So, where's dat Earthbound 64 leak?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: storall on July 26, 2020, 05:12:37 pm
I'd want to know what stuff got cut due to censorship.


Quote
Full master ROM database (America and Japan, NOT Europe) for Famicom and NES including the ROMs (and I mean everything - there’s even Nintendo World Championships 1990 and shit like that)

How does it compare to no-intro? Any bad dumps to weed out?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on July 26, 2020, 08:07:21 pm
On Advance Wars: Days of Ruin/Advance Wars: Dark Conflict I thought it got a 3ds release late in the day not DSi (generally speaking the DSi had very little of any great merit that was not available in fine form on the original DS).

Also the Japanese text was present in the western games and while gated off it was playable from early on with a cheat (same cheat for most games, but generally just after the end of the overlay section will be a place where they stuff the firmware settings, set the language one to Japanese and there you go), I later made a hack and Xenesis made a better one still not long after that http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1003/
Another for Go Go Cosmo Cops which had similar issues in case some Japanese language wanting forum searcher missed it http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1008/

Cool, well, I wasn't referring to the Japanese text. I meant a prototype of the Japanese release has yet to surface.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on July 27, 2020, 08:07:41 am
Cool, well, I wasn't referring to the Japanese text. I meant a prototype of the Japanese release has yet to surface.

Was there some evidence of one with some kind of changed script, uncensored graphics (others playing along when coming out of Japan various graphical aspects were often changed https://tcrf.net/Advance_Wars https://tcrf.net/Advance_Wars_2:_Black_Hole_Rising#Regional_Differences https://gamicus.gamepedia.com/List_of_Advance_Wars_COs#Grit ) or other such things?

Also my bad. I thought it was the 3ds that eventually saw a release, or maybe it was a Japanese release of one of them that was the last activity from the series as Fire Emblem blew up for reasons I am still never quite sure about.

I can see something like Dr. Mario 64 being valuable if no Japanese version exists but if you can play what appears to be an official version (nothing appeared to have changed for the DSi and 3ds offerings and I imagine those links above, or at least the version of it dealing with the second DS one https://tcrf.net/Advance_Wars:_Days_of_Ruin , would have noted something) on an original cart with a simple cheat then yeah.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on July 27, 2020, 10:06:00 am
I suppose wild guessing about a Days of Ruin build that's not leaked is pointless. Between the cheat and the Japanese dsi/3ds release, we know anything worth knowing.

For that matter, I don't think the original Japanese versions of Advance Wars 1 or 2 have surfaced either. Even if they're almost certainly identical to the 1+2 collection release.

The good news is someone claims to have compiled Japanese Dr. Mario 64 from the recent source code leaks. Stay tuned in case instructions are posted.
https://twitter.com/crashoveride953/status/1287560687116574720 (https://twitter.com/crashoveride953/status/1287560687116574720)
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on July 27, 2020, 05:40:01 pm
It's been 100% confirmed now that the original scope of Majoras Mask was seven days, it was probably for the best that it was scaled back, it would have been an absolute nightmare to develop, not to mention it would be near impossible to track subplots in-game.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Vanya on July 28, 2020, 01:21:42 am
If the plethora of beta content for Super Mario World is any indicator, there should be a ton of very interesting things to salvage from this.
I bet the guys over at Super Mario World Central are all over this.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on July 30, 2020, 01:17:37 pm
Another portion of the leak came out,
https://youtu.be/ot3gVi4Wdws
Looks like Dark Link was going to be part of the final boss fight in Link's Awakening, that would have been cool.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on July 30, 2020, 02:50:04 pm
Another portion of the leak came out,
https://youtu.be/ot3gVi4Wdws
How nice that they spend three minutes yammering while showing nothing but box art.

Is there really some reason content like this has to be in video form?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: iridium_ionizer on July 30, 2020, 08:05:10 pm
How nice that they spend three minutes yammering while showing nothing but box art.

Is there really some reason content like this has to be in video form?
They got to keep that sweet YouTube ad revenue coming in. Drip, drip, drip. Quality content be damned.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on July 30, 2020, 08:57:38 pm
Iirc Nintendo made vague threats about punishing anyone associating with leaked content, so GE can talk about it but not specifically show or link anything without potentially being steamrolled, it sucks, but that's the way the YouTube game works these days.

On the other hand, the legal threats have ironically made it much much harder for Ninty to track the leakers, as nobody is putting up links to jack shit, who would have guessed that would have backfired?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on July 30, 2020, 09:21:05 pm
Iirc Nintendo made vague threats about punishing anyone associating with leaked content, so GE can talk about it but not specifically show or link anything without potentially being steamrolled
And yet, this Twitter thread thrives.
https://twitter.com/TheLX5/status/1286807705315872768
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Asaki on July 30, 2020, 10:28:25 pm
How does it compare to no-intro? Any bad dumps to weed out?

There's a few revisions that never got released, including a final ROM for Hit the Ice (well actually that one was in an email).

I started going through a bunch of it, but I wanted to try and find other people who were working on it first, so we could collaborate.

No such luck.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: KingMike on July 31, 2020, 06:37:35 pm
I suppose wild guessing about a Days of Ruin build that's not leaked is pointless. Between the cheat and the Japanese dsi/3ds release, we know anything worth knowing.

For that matter, I don't think the original Japanese versions of Advance Wars 1 or 2 have surfaced either. Even if they're almost certainly identical to the 1+2 collection release.

The good news is someone claims to have compiled Japanese Dr. Mario 64 from the recent source code leaks. Stay tuned in case instructions are posted.
https://twitter.com/crashoveride953/status/1287560687116574720 (https://twitter.com/crashoveride953/status/1287560687116574720)
How odd that an unreleased Chinese localization of Advance Wars 1 would surface before the Japanese original? (especially if you want to believe that it was canceled JUST because of 9/11, which would've only been hours before the game's scheduled launch. Doesn't quite add up if you consider the logistics of last-second canceling a physical game? There'd have to have been tens of thousands of copies at least of the game just sitting in the warehouse, destined to collect dust if it was decided to never ship them, which I'd imagine would've made Yamauchi cry at the thought of effectively wasted money. :P )
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: gamingcat02261991 on July 31, 2020, 09:10:55 pm
Wish the leaker would've at least given us some more insight on the development of games like Kirby Super Star, NES games, etc.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on August 01, 2020, 01:04:17 am
How odd that an unreleased Chinese localization of Advance Wars 1 would surface before the Japanese original? (especially if you want to believe that it was canceled JUST because of 9/11, which would've only been hours before the game's scheduled launch. Doesn't quite add up if you consider the logistics of last-second canceling a physical game? There'd have to have been tens of thousands of copies at least of the game just sitting in the warehouse, destined to collect dust if it was decided to never ship them, which I'd imagine would've made Yamauchi cry at the thought of effectively wasted money. :P )

With or without 9/11, the release date was murky. From what I gather it was last slated for October before going into hiatus. I don't think Advance Wars 2 actually got confirmation for Japan.

A bit more digging raises other curiosities. Sabre Wulf and Diddy Kong Pilot were displayed at Space World 2001, but their comparably long-delayed final forms didn't make the jump at all.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on August 04, 2020, 01:29:02 pm
And yet, this Twitter thread thrives.
https://twitter.com/TheLX5/status/1286807705315872768
It could be that they're quietly attempting to go straight for the source of the leaks, to avoid another media incident when new competition against the Switch is approaching.  There were apparently some hints that even more is coming, after all.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Asaki on August 04, 2020, 07:59:26 pm
And yet, this Twitter thread thrives.
https://twitter.com/TheLX5/status/1286807705315872768

I think he specifically meant YouTube.

Idunno, usually when people are in doubt, they try to play it safe.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on August 04, 2020, 08:19:40 pm
I did, YouTube is a completely different game from Twitter thanks to it's broken copyright system, larger channels especially need to watch who's toes they step on or risk losing their channels and means of income.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on August 11, 2020, 11:58:02 am
Some news about SFX-DOS is cropping up now.
https://www.fanbyte.com/lists/the-10-coolest-snes-revelations-from-the-nintendo-gigaleak/
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Euyira on August 12, 2020, 10:26:24 pm
Quote from: Asaki
I started going through a bunch of it, but I wanted to try and find other people who were working on it first, so we could collaborate.


You should speak to "NewRisingSun" at forums.nesdev.com.


Quote from: NewRisingSun
The only ROM files in the master database are those for which an order to manufacture was given. So, no prototypes. There are five rev1 versions that are not yet (as of today) in No-Intro:

    Bridgestone Cycle: Radac Tailor-made (Japan)
    Dragon Slayer Jr.: Romancia (Japan)
    Family Computer Othello (Japan)
    Nintendo World Cup (North America)
    Roger Clemens' MVP Baseball (North America)

I have already added their hash values to the NES 2.0 XML Header Database.
Also, their master ROMs of Athena (J), Reigen Doushi and Hyakkiyakou are corrupt, and CNROM+Security (mapper 185) games --- 8 KiB CHR-ROM, with three of the four latch values disabling CHR-ROM --- are stored as the equivalent of mapper 3 hacks, that is, 32 KiB of CHR-ROM with the "disabled" banks being filled with FF.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: segwayspeedracer on August 14, 2020, 09:23:57 pm
Personally, I am studying computer science and am taking an ASM 6502 class.. having super mario kart source code is super interesting for me to learn on as I learn that language. Hard for me to get any real value from reading the source until I understand basic asm
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: DJ Incendration on August 31, 2020, 05:46:57 pm
It's cool to see all the weird beta stuff, but I doubt much else of interest will arise from any of this.  (I'm still hoping to see more of that Super Mario Land 2 beta I saw exhibited around 25 years ago.)

I can't imagine why Nintendo would leave any of this stuff casually sitting around on a network share where anyone can casually log in and nab it.  My bet is that someone scrounged an old backup from a dumpster.
Huh... Well, there is something I'm interested in but I can't seem to find: the GBA thing. GBC in GBA has a slightly different bios, and that seems to be in the leak. I can't seem to get an actual file, it just has a conf thing, format, and a bunch of other nonsense but not a file. The readme file says it's a subversion thing, but I can't use that! At least, I don't know how. A file would help a lot, since the emulator I use now requires a different file than just the GBC bootrom. I don't know what to do, but the leak seems interesting. Beta of Pokémon... wow, actually interesting.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 01, 2020, 11:28:33 am
A file would help a lot, since the emulator I use now requires a different file than just the GBC bootrom.
I don't know what you're referring to, but whatever it is has almost certainly been available long, long before this leak happened.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on September 02, 2020, 06:12:53 pm
New round incoming (3 of the gigaleak family but there were previous efforts).

Not sure of complete contents

Pokemon Emerald multi languages/international version source code likely being the primary point of interest. Includes some dev tools and base music tracks (prior to conversion to GBA format*). Not sure what this brings the list of pokemon source code dumps (official and remakes) to now but it is quite a few of them.

Few wii debug tools and code for them. This may also include the startup disc that was popular for a hot moment there (Nintendo updated many things to block hacks but left their not seen in normal retail units one unpatched and it had leaked so continued being a way in before further hacks dropped).

Some dev docs about some of the wii internal chips. Quite possibly something of great interest to hardware historians and maybe some repair peeps but I doubt any emulator devs (even if they wanted to) or hackers/homebrew types will gain much from it (reminder we already saw the Wii private keys drop in an earlier one of these leaks).


*never sure what to make of such things (do they count as more pure, or did the composers master them to sound good on the GBA) but I did enjoy the people doing high quality remakes of SNES Donkey Kong a while back and will be happy to see something here tools.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 02, 2020, 08:09:44 pm
Emerald source is almost useless when it comes to any hacking use because of disassembly existing, again.  More beta sprites and music would be nice though (kinda doubt placeholder sprites will be a thing this time around since this is third version).  Unfortunately, I think we're about done with early Pokemon revelations for the most part but I could be wrong.

Everything else might have something useful though.

EDIT: Oh hey, interesting that they used spreadsheets to localize.  Reminds me of a lot of stuff I've done before.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MysticLord on September 03, 2020, 12:16:51 pm
Hoping and praying that someone hacks Square Enix next. :angel:
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Vehek on September 03, 2020, 12:22:21 pm
Like we'd get much out of it. They lost some of the finalized source code so quickly back in the PS1 days.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 03, 2020, 10:30:54 pm
Like we'd get much out of it. They lost some of the finalized source code so quickly back in the PS1 days.
And code before that has been lost.  It was confirmed that this at least happened to FFV, which is why it ended up the way it did on Mobile/Steam.

Though, that may have been just a simple excuse as that release was based on the GBA version.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on September 04, 2020, 04:01:37 pm
I just realized that Square-Enix's abysmally poor source code handling is probably also why so few games from Enix have been re-released, that and the fact that most of Enix's catalogue is probably too niche/bizarre to market in this day and age.

I'm finally learning SNES assembly now so I'll definitely check out some of the leaked code sometime.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on September 04, 2020, 07:25:21 pm
Enix games are often a legal entanglement at that. It's unclear who has the assets from their defunct developers like Produce and Quintet.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Bregalad on September 07, 2020, 04:09:55 am
I'm actually fairly sure Enix is just a publisher, like for example Tradewest and Acclaim, and nevrer developped any games.
After that Enix was pretty much just Dragon Quest and nothing else, before they bought Squaresoft following the commercial failure of the movie Final Fantasy-The Spririt Within
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: slidelljohn on September 07, 2020, 04:41:14 am
Does that mean Produce probably owns the rights to 7th saga and not square-enix? I wish I could get my hands on the rights to the 7th saga.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 09, 2020, 05:06:45 pm
Another gigaleak part, this time we get Pokemon Picross GBC, official english Gargoyle's Quest II, and some other unreleased content.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 09, 2020, 05:20:45 pm
I saw pictures of Picross on Twitter and didn't realize where it came from. That's kind of neat.

I remember GQII was heavily featured in Nintendo Power back in the day and was surprised to learn that it wound up as an NES exclusive.  It's a little strange that a Capcom game would end up in a dump like this, though.

If anyone is wondering, there was a hack that put the NES translation in the GB ROM (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/1794/), and an unofficial translation of the original game (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/4146/).
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 09, 2020, 09:39:04 pm
It appears that an english version of X named Lunar Chase was also found.  Also Towers II, but that was already given out for free here: https://www.gamingalexandria.com/wp/2020/01/18/towers-ii-plight-of-the-stargazer-gbc-unreleased/

There's a few other unreleased titles (and some released already), but I don't have the details about all of them.  Looks like at least one of them is supposed to be a movie tie-in?

EDIT: We have a translation patch for X now, and the dialog is actually better there: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5684/

Another interesting thing I found though, was that Robopon Star Version is in the batch (ouside of Japan everyone got only Sun).
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on September 10, 2020, 05:12:12 am
One of the movie tie-ins is Little Mermaid Pinball in Japanese. Several more new JP translations I think. (Catwoman, Tony Hawk 1, Flintstones/Jetsons...)

Gameboy ports of Rockboard and Sutte Hakkun :o are much cooler news.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 10, 2020, 09:26:43 am
At a quick glance, it looks like the translation patch for Gargoyle's Quest 2 is actually better already.  You can tell that the official version is also at least heavily based on the NES text, but from like the first sentences you can tell that more sacrifices were made.

Gameboy ports of Rockboard and Sutte Hakkun :o are much cooler news.
I wonder if anyone will give translating these a go?  One of the first things I thought about Rockboard was "this would be great if it was portable."

Also gimmick world!  Alphadream's unreleased RPG!  I can't say much about it other than it's most definitely a looker, as nice as Star Ocean: Blue Sphere.  Supershot Robot Golf is also unexepectedly very good too, if it wasn't for Mario Golf it would probably be the best golf you could get on the system.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on September 10, 2020, 09:58:09 am
Many interesting things but I think robopon has the most interest from me right now.

Most I meet know it from the GBA efforts (on the GBA most things that were pokemon clones did better than pokemon for me, pity everything since has been so mediocre give or take maybe Dragon Quest Monsters).
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 10, 2020, 11:03:56 am
Is there a good established news source cataloging all these details yet?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Pennywise on September 10, 2020, 06:54:01 pm
I'd still like to eventually give Gargoyle's Quest II a fresh, new translation like I did with the first game. I'd do both versions and keep the same naming terminology (and piss off the purists).

From what I understand the script for Gimmick Land and Tomato Adventure is 1:1. So theoretically if you translate one, you can translate the other.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on September 10, 2020, 07:42:28 pm
Supershot Robot Golf has to be seen to be believed. They did a number on the dialogue. It was close enough to release to be previewed by both IGN (https://www.ign.com/articles/2000/02/09/supershot-golf-robot) and Nintendo Power (https://datassette.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/revistas/nintendo_power_132_-_maio_2000.pdf) (page 117). Golf King is a more standard localization, and it's among the leaks too.

Interestingly, the next NP page shows another scrapped release. Confirming Puchi Carat was planned for the US on GBC (review score down on page 128).

Many interesting things but I think robopon has the most interest from me right now.

Most I meet know it from the GBA efforts (on the GBA most things that were pokemon clones did better than pokemon for me, pity everything since has been so mediocre give or take maybe Dragon Quest Monsters).

The lack of attention to robopon is weird. At least I don't remember seeing anyone data mine the game to see if the Star exclusive content was fully translated. Though that might not matter now that a Star version proto has leaked.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 10, 2020, 08:51:16 pm
I'd still like to eventually give Gargoyle's Quest II a fresh, new translation like I did with the first game. I'd do both versions and keep the same naming terminology (and piss off the purists).
Until I saw the restoration hack (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3684/) just now it never occurred to me that Rushifell was supposed to be Lucifer.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: tc on September 10, 2020, 11:41:54 pm
If you're all about fishing, Legend of the Sea King for Gameboy leaked.

Too bad the related Legend of the River King 64 isn't here. http://web.archive.org/web/19990203005456/http://www.natsume.com/comingsoon/comingsoon.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/19990203005456/http://www.natsume.com/comingsoon/comingsoon.htm)
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: blipform on September 11, 2020, 10:51:03 pm
Is there a good established news source cataloging all these details yet?

I haven't seen a real centralized source, just a bunch of twitter and reddit postings.


But I guess some places cover the basics.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-gigaleak-4.573513/
https://kotaku.com/new-nintendo-leak-includes-several-unreleased-game-boy-1845017212


And some older recent stuff.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-gigaleak-3-featuring-pokemon-emerald-wii-startup-disc.573029/
https://old.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/hxy4je/gigaleak_it_looks_to_me_that_nintendo_tried/


Something I'm not getting is.. if N had all this unreleased stuff in cold storage, couldn't they have polished and released in their virtual store? They managed to pull off some good retro surprises.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on September 12, 2020, 05:22:52 am
They have done a few things over the years, normally things that did not make it outside Japan.

Some of it I imagine is in rights hell (how much of this sort of thing is based on a manga that might since have been sold, this in addition to the usual who owns what in game world with the added bonus of is being 20 years later). They also have the problem of submitting to the various censorship bureaus and expected return for it (it is seldom a cheap hobby to get the stamp of approval, if your additions to a game include a small blurb, 3d filter and maybe a changed control icon then yeah). Being Nintendo they also have the "we want all the control" aspects and probably don't want to be releasing unproven (I mean it was not worthy of release originally...) content lightly.

As far as centralised sources. I doubt many places with an archival, proper info scraping (if they did not think to include a full file listing* from the archive then they are seriously lacking, and I would also say if you seriously used the datamining to mean something no commercial data miner would ever be tasked to do something similar for then you are also behind the curve) or hacking mindset will be willing to go on record as playing with files this hot and not necessarily with a "in the public interest" backing. To that end this might be a "be the change you want to see" type deal, that or you continue to piece together things from specific interest groups as they look at their chosen field.


*were I to play archival hacker info scraping data science boy reporter then what I have already seen discussed and conventional approaches would be spun into
Full file listings, sizes and dates as a matter of course.
Beyond that there are several broad categories of info people will care about
Straight unreleased games, be it at all or translated but not released in a given region (this can include separate English translations for Europe and the US, and things released later as emulated games or ports on later systems).
It was noted that various internal archives of all known or known to a region games were present. Compare and contrast between known archives like those of https://no-intro.org/ . Some such archivers have claimed to find unknown revisions mentioned, and have also claimed that the dumps out in the world are superior quality (Nintendo's archives having errors), this all in addition to gaining some idea of how Nintendo et al stores things internally (this is not ines header country it seems).
Betas of games.
Source code for games. Comments naturally being one of the main targets but you might also quash some rumours and myths. This can also include high res versions of textures, audio and the like. Source code to betas might also be of interest for things mentioned shortly. Some also are full repositories so might even have diffs available.
Tools to build source code for games both to build source code and to get an idea of what devs of the day had available to them and what could reasonably have been done. For later systems you might also find tools to handle file formats. You might also find things of interest in the source code for games and betas if debug hooks are left in (certainly I have pulled out tools, scripts and notes from various isos and unpacked ROMs over the years, and it would not be the first time either https://www.pagetable.com/?p=28 ).
Development notes, project plans and beta test results for games. Anything here really but changes made (content and featured removed and added), bugs squashed and the like. This might be PDF so harder to scan with basic text grabbing options.
Localisation notes if censorship is undertaken, or maybe just in general.
Information on internal hardware, custom chips and board designs. Possibly for general interest and seeding a more advanced repair culture ( https://circuit-board.de/forum/index.php/Thread/13913-STRIP-CLUB-PCB-Scans/?pageNo=1 giving us https://www.dropbox.com/sh/33886pwfi08kvxg/AAABOeOZqH1v53pUM_-8uHrOa?dl=0is nice and all but compared to what I see available for https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w to play with when repairing apple hardware then... yeah).
Some mentioned CAD so it might be nice to have CAD documents on plastic shells. Most have probably already been made with basic measuring tools but tolerances if nothing else would be nice to have.
CAD might also feature cancelled hardware and peripherals.
BIOS/firmware files, especially for random regions and peripherals.
Repair tools that might be available -- repair stuff often bypasses various protections too which can lead to new hacks.
Any cryptographic keys. Private is cool but public might yield something as yet unknown for some oddities.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on September 12, 2020, 10:48:41 am
Is there a good established news source cataloging all these details yet?
Not sure if this is koshier for here, but I found a pastebin with all the file names for the game boy content: https://pastebin.com/L1KNwxJj
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 12, 2020, 11:33:31 am
I found a 4chan thread where someone posted a screenshot of Workboy. The freakin' Workboy!

Of course I doubt anyone's going to have much interest in looking at that for long, but it's pretty neat that part of it has seen the light of day at last.  (It was featured in the original Game Boy Player's Guide; reportedly the British developers pulled it at the last minute when they realized the market for PDAs was already shifting.)
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Sliver X on September 12, 2020, 04:53:26 pm
I've been having a lot of fun with Lunar Chase. I totally would have bought this for my GB/SGB if it were released.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 12, 2020, 08:08:29 pm
I've been having a lot of fun with Lunar Chase. I totally would have bought this for my GB/SGB if it were released.
Have you tried the DSiware sequel?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Sliver X on September 14, 2020, 03:50:18 pm
No, I never knew it existed. I just delved into the pecularities of DSi emulation and it seems really cool so far (Thank god it has an option for button controls and not forcing the stylus on you).

Graphically it's like if in TRON they were sucked into a VirtualBoy instead of an ENCOM mainframe, which is cool. But is it No$GBA doing something wrong or is the audio supposed to sound like a Quality 0 Ogg/Vorbis file?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Baggins on September 15, 2020, 02:08:52 am
Lunar Crash is cool, but can someone hack it so thatSGB/GBC detects it as original cart so that built in color mode (seen in Japanese or translated Japanese X) will work with the Lunar Crash game? I'm sure its a 'header' based thing right?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 15, 2020, 11:13:58 am
Lunar Crash is cool, but can someone hack it so thatSGB/GBC detects it as original cart so that built in color mode (seen in Japanese or translated Japanese X) will work with the Lunar Crash game? I'm sure its a 'header' based thing right?
Someone just bumped this thread the other day:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=18383.0

It doesn't look like the colors are all that different from the default GB palette.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Starscream on September 16, 2020, 06:26:29 am
If you're all about fishing, Legend of the Sea King for Gameboy leaked.

Too bad the related Legend of the River King 64 isn't here. http://web.archive.org/web/19990203005456/http://www.natsume.com/comingsoon/comingsoon.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/19990203005456/http://www.natsume.com/comingsoon/comingsoon.htm)

Great. Never knew these were announced back then.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MontyMole on September 16, 2020, 10:34:38 am
Looks like the Edd the Duck game is part of this mega leak. Can't think of a more niche title to base a game on to be honest, especially as I can remember it being previewed back in the day (Nintendo Zone or Total I think.)

Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Baggins on September 21, 2020, 11:48:24 pm
Someone just bumped this thread the other day:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=18383.0

It doesn't look like the colors are all that different from the default GB palette.

I'd have to include screen shots, but X japan, X japan fan tranlsation have a grey/blue theme for colors...

While X USA Proto/Lunar Crash demo default to default colors (sort of orange, green, yellow) on super gameboy for example... Yes it is the default pallete... and its boring... I'd like the japanese pallete back...
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on September 22, 2020, 02:01:52 am
While X USA Proto/Lunar Crash demo default to default colors (sort of orange, green, yellow) on super gameboy for example... Yes it is the default pallete... and its boring... I'd like the japanese pallete back...
Oh, well, SGB palettes are completely different from GBC palettes. 

https://tcrf.net/Notes:Super_Game_Boy#Game_Boy_Internal_Name_Table suggests it looks at the internal ROM name.  It seems it just applies default palette 4-D, so hacking the ROM seems a little unnecessary.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on October 01, 2020, 11:36:13 am
I am not sure what round this technically is but we have another. Bunch of pokemon debug and beta stuff, some DS SDK stuff (there was a newer version in an older leak, not sure if this version is newer than the one that has been around for many years now) but for around here most will probably be interested in the famicom disk system "FDS Disk Writer" stuff. Not sure what it is exactly but given the surprisingly high interest level in the FDS around here then I will note it.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Chronosplit on October 07, 2020, 11:41:10 am
More stuff I found in the game boy leak:

-Hammerin' Harry is a unique US version, this was Europe and Japan only.  It has a voice sample that appears to be in english!  Other than that it's Hammerin' Harry.
-Space Date is apparently an unreleased european version of Out of Gas
-Unfortunately the YuGiOh games are just Dark Duel Stories, but without the subtitle on the title screen for some reason.  Too bad.
-Edd the Duck actually... isn't terrible.  It comes from the Sonic school of platforming, no loops but you got speed.  Not amazing thanks to the screen real estate.
-Bobby's World was once a Home Alone game: https://tcrf.net/Bobby%27s_World_(Game_Boy) (Strange, this link goes to a completely different place when I place it in the post)
-ZAS is an european version, but heck if I can tell a difference between that and the Japanese one.  This is another game with that "wow" factor when it comes to graphics but for a SHMUP on the DMG.
-There are a few other european games slated to go to the US but never did, like Jimmy White's Cueball or David Beckham's Soccer.  I don't think there's much of a difference here since it was already in english.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on October 17, 2020, 06:58:59 pm
Once more we find ourselves with leaked code to poke at with a stick

Pokemon 7th gen (that would be Sun and Moon, 2016 or so release date on the 3ds) being the most interesting this time around, though code only and assets are not there so presumably any builds will need to see those regenned, or you just use it to figure out how things operate.

Bunch of stuff as it pertains to Wii (and Wii aspects of Wii U) repair locations and mod detection, as well as some documents on the hardware (Broadway processor) and some other dev gear.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Celice on October 18, 2020, 12:10:08 am
My favorite of the leaks so far has to be the 07/24/2020 leak. Lots of early assets, builds, tools, and code for a bunch of SNES games, and other cool stuff too.

I'm still finding cool and interesting aspects of the leak. Sadly a lot of the interest, and research, has died down, but there's a trove of things to discover still hiding out in this leak alone.

Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Asaki on November 02, 2020, 12:55:29 am
I'd have to include screen shots, but X japan, X japan fan tranlsation have a grey/blue theme for colors...

While X USA Proto/Lunar Crash demo default to default colors (sort of orange, green, yellow) on super gameboy for example... Yes it is the default pallete... and its boring... I'd like the japanese pallete back...
You can probably just copy and paste the title from the Japanese header into the proto header.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MysticLord on November 20, 2020, 04:23:58 am
Huge Capcom leak from ransomware hackers. Haven't looked into it too much but DMC2 and The Misadventures of Tron Bonne source code and master roms were leaked.

I think MML2 as well?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: SleepyFist on November 20, 2020, 09:18:22 am
MML2? I'd heard about the other two so far but not that one, fingers crossed for somebody to swoop in with MML ports sometime.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: Jorpho on November 20, 2020, 11:27:37 am
Yes indeed! I have a difficult time getting hyped over yet another release of Mario 64, but Tron Bonne, running conveniently under Windows with all the bells and whistles? That's something I can get behind!
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MysticLord on November 21, 2020, 07:43:54 pm
Hoping and praying that Square Enix is next, and that they have source code for my favorites from the PS2 era and earlier. >:D

Have any of the FPGA emulation communities said anything about the leaks? Could they possibly by damaged by them, legally?

I would love to have a RISC-V CPU/GPU handheld with a FPGA that can run everything from the N64/PS2 on down.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on November 22, 2020, 08:58:41 am
FPGA folks are still mostly messing around at the tail end of the 16 bit era, or with peripherals for later stuff (video adapters, controller adapters, expansion chip alternatives) from what I have seen. The future of it all is clear but cost-performance-difficulty do get in the way.
Damage wise then same as anything really -- if you can be shown to have used information obtained by illegitimate means (you copied their errors, their trap errors and obvious claims of using such things being the big three, some more minor stuff in maybe not handling undocumented features and possibly there being impossible feats that could only really be done by such things) then they can come down on you.
Likewise most FPGA folks are likely more interested in transistor diagrams for this sort of thing, which decapping is the better source for a lot of that ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWqBmmPQP40&t=1540s ), to say nothing of most old consoles tending to be off the shelf chips which 90s and older era game console companies probably did not have nice modern spice simulation setups and equivalents for.

I am unaware of any cases of this for this sort of thing, and we have examples they could probably ping going back decades now. People pumping out devices would be a potential turning point though (all well and good suing a hobby programmer, likely to cost more in lawyer fees than you are going to get back and unlikely to stop things you might not want).
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MysticLord on November 23, 2020, 03:42:17 am
I read an article recently (can't find it now) that the big thing in research labs outside of the first world and the Ivy League is 3d printed research tools.

https://hackaday.com/2015/01/13/cheap-diy-microscope-sees-individual-atoms/

https://hackaday.com/2019/01/26/3d-printed-microscope-stage-offers-precise-movement/

https://www.cleanroomtechnology.com/news/article_page/3Dprinted_tools_welcome/148155

What tools do decappers use? Other than their expertise and zeal, what's the bottleneck in getting chips decapped?
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: FAST6191 on November 23, 2020, 10:50:05 am
Varies considerably.

Classically they would tend to melt the housing of the chips off with some fairly unpleasant acids to reveal the chip and bond wires. Today there are some slightly nicer chemical means (though trickier) and some do it with abrasive methods*. If you happen to be able to find raw dies or it is one of those old school ones with a simple covering then fantastic.

*most of the ones I ever see in labs will be using metallography style sample prep machines (pregrinding machine for metallographic sample if you want a choice search term for a shopping search), which is not a terribly cheap hobby. However a surface plate and fine ruby sanding/lapping/grinding paper or something similar might get it done.

Microscopes (optical in some cases, scanning electron microscope aka SEM in others).

From there you grind down layer by layer (some chips are single layer, others not so much, sometimes there are also security measures but that is usually a thing for those also doing electrical analysis) making a complete image as they go (stitching it a lot and possibly sorting things if your grinding reveals multiple layers at once)

There was a nice talk on it at C3 a few years back (think between 24c3 and 27c3) but I could not find it last night when making that reply. It covered how it became possible to do it outside high end electronics research labs (be it university or big chip maker) and a few searches on it say it has got a bit better still.

So yeah unpleasant chemicals, tooling investment, microscopy, time to stitch things together (though software can help) and it almost always necessarily being a destructive process for what might well be rare, expensive and hard to come by samples*, possibly multiple at that.

*it is one thing to put your fun stuff money into buying say a neo geo and attaching scope probes to it, maybe soldering a few wires and then doing a bunch of tests, either to keep or sell on when done for as much or maybe more than you paid for it, quite another to basically destroy it.
Title: Re: New leak of Nintendo Source code, beta, keys and dev notes to SNES, GB and more
Post by: MysticLord on November 25, 2020, 03:58:25 am
Very cool info, thanks for entertaining my tangent.