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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: [Unknown] on July 04, 2020, 04:39:46 pm

Title: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 04, 2020, 04:39:46 pm
I've created some tools to make a decent fan translation of Tomato Adventure more realistic:

https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans

The previous tools available had pretty limited lengths for text.  See README.md for details.

It sounds like there's a few people who've created a translated script already, but I don't have my hands on it yet.  The goal of this project is a fan translation to English, and perhaps other languages (if there's sufficient interest.)

Some screenshots/gifs of initial progress here:
https://imgur.com/a/87pmUQm

So far, the hack covers all the crucial bits:

 * VWF for everywhere (I think?), initial support from an anonymous contributor
 * Name length increased from 4 to 7 (but also max 5 tiles)
 * Item, enemy, etc. names can be longer (as long as they fit on the screen)
 * Insertion only affects script pointers
 * Image insertion (there are only a few images with text on them that I can find)

If anyone is interested, it'd be great to hear feedback on:

1. The logo - any ideas on how the English logo could look (font, letter color/arrangement/etc.)?  The gear in the center is used for animations, want to keep it.... maybe near the "t"?

2. Is there any interest in non-English (including interest to actually translate, not just wanting it to exist)?  It would not be hard to make additional characters available, the encoding is already multibyte.  Character names might be tricky.

3. The game has a scripting language (actually like 3) which I had to get a half decent understanding of to extract battle messages and correct dialog pointers.  I could create tools to customize, but not sure if anyone is actually interested in using them.

4. I've wondered if a shorter 8x8 font (so there's actually dedicated space for the descenders), but I'm not sure if that would make it more readable or less.  The p's and q's aren't that bad really...

5. Any ideas on appropriate fonts or styling for the defeat screen would be nice.  I'm not that aesthetically inclined, but the "GAME OVER" says "Impact" to me.

Any other feedback would be appreciated too.

Also, while doing this I created an LZ77 compressor that seems perfectly BIOS compatible but compresses better than other tools I found.  Could separate it out if there's interest (currently in inserter/lz77.cpp.)

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: PowerPanda on July 06, 2020, 10:15:22 am
Just wanted to say Thank You for taking this on. For those that don't know, Tomato Adventure is the game that convinced Nintendo to let AlphaDream do Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. I've wanted to play it for a long time.

I'll take a look at the title screen and see if I can find a good font to use for in-game dialogue and the game over screen. Impact doesn't seem right for me, so I'll see what else could work.

July 06, 2020, 02:17:43 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I think that "Showcard Gothic" is the right direction for your title screen. If possible, the gear needs to go over one of the Os, and not over the top of "Adventure". The gear that is used in the logo is different than the one that is used in the animation (smaller, different position), so if you can edit that one, the rest of the title animation should be fine. Here is a mockup I did.

(https://i.imgur.com/7HlVs5M.png)

For the Game Over Screen, Impact is potentially fine, but you might want to stylize it with something like Bahaus.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 06, 2020, 08:59:31 pm
That looks pretty good, thanks.  That font does seem to match the style of the Japanese font well.

The white gear is a "slot" that the real, yellow gear pops in and out of during the animation.  It's actually the same size, though.  The sprite can be edited, although I haven't dug into how the animation is handled yet.

If it's moved, might be better for it to be on one of the lower letters (D, U, or R - maybe?)  At the end of the intro it slides left and right and slots in.  Might have to move Aresa and other things for it to make sense being higher up.

And when the animation restarts (idle too long on the title screen) it will pop downward, so there it's also more straightforward if it's only translated horizontally (don't have to make it move faster or make that segment last longer.)

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ArkthePieKing on July 06, 2020, 09:50:24 pm
Oh dunk, this is REALLY exciting for me. I've always wanted to try this game, I can't wait to follow your progress on this!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: julayla on July 07, 2020, 12:42:16 am
Oh wow. Finally, this game is gonna get a great translation it deserves. I can't wait to play it
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on July 11, 2020, 08:17:50 pm
neat neat neat, looking forward to this one!!!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ifightdragons on July 11, 2020, 08:54:42 pm
Really looking forward to this.

Have you got a time estimate or goal for when you want to be finished?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Cralex on July 12, 2020, 01:23:18 am
I've wanted to add this game to my collection for some time now. Good luck!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 12, 2020, 12:00:32 pm
Glad there's interest.

Estimates are hard to give with hobby projects, but:

 * The tools are in a decent place, though may require bugfixes here and there and thus require testing.
 * There's still a lot of text to translate, edit, test, etc.

We're still talking some time before a translation is released.  The game is still largely untranslated, but now names of things don't have to be "WndBath" and etc.

Right now I've been going through the game a bit just to check if there's other text or images that need updating.

-[Unknown]

July 15, 2020, 01:08:02 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I asked someone to try making a logo, taking into account the limited palette (128 colors), original style, and gear animation.  Does anyone have any feedback opinions on these?

https://imgur.com/a/7nZcqFt

More concerned about the beveling and letters, layout, etc.  Or just overall what looks good.  Note that B and C don't have shadows - just trying to get feedback.

Also: I found a silly bug in the longer name handling when you name either of the last two characters, but it's fixed now.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: PowerPanda on July 15, 2020, 10:48:30 am
I like Logo A better than Logo B. It looks good in the animation too.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: julayla on July 16, 2020, 10:38:38 am
I pick the Logo A one as well
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: VicVergil on July 16, 2020, 12:19:40 pm
2. Is there any interest in non-English (including interest to actually translate, not just wanting it to exist)?  It would not be hard to make additional characters available, the encoding is already multibyte.  Character names might be tricky.

4. I've wondered if a shorter 8x8 font (so there's actually dedicated space for the descenders), but I'm not sure if that would make it more readable or less.  The p's and q's aren't that bad really...

5. Any ideas on appropriate fonts or styling for the defeat screen would be nice.  I'm not that aesthetically inclined, but the "GAME OVER" says "Impact" to me.

Any other feedback would be appreciated too.

Also, while doing this I created an LZ77 compressor that seems perfectly BIOS compatible but compresses better than other tools I found.  Could separate it out if there's interest (currently in inserter/lz77.cpp.)

-[Unknown]

2. Adding and supporting the basic European set, if only for a fully featured naming screen, would be nice. That would provide the base for future translations to follow.
4. That's the same font from Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. It's more authentic for sure and fits a lot of information onscreen...
5. Impact is horrible, moreso for low res graphics. There's some reuploads of official FontWorks fonts used in Nintendo games on deviantart that you can look up, the comment sections often have interesting links...

A translator for the game was here in the Help Request subforum that had most of the game translated, if you need his help.
Reading up on this project was interesting to say the least. It seems that the VWF was supposedly an unused feature? How much of that is correct?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 16, 2020, 03:59:25 pm
European set (i.e. ISO 8859-15) shouldn't be a problem.  The naming screen is easy to map to any character set - it's just defined as a list of characters and tile references.  Modifiers could be trickier.

That said, doing that would mean sacrificing Japanese characters right now.

The original game did have part of a VWF.  Specifically:

 * Dialog text (8x12 font) was already implemented, but had a width table of all the same value.  This, and updating the font, was fixed by the anonymous contributor.

 * Dialog text centering still had to be fixed to account for the width table.

 * Menu text (8x8 font) was partially implemented.  It looked like they'd originally attempted to implement, but either realized it required more changes elsewhere (it did) or was buggy and didn't need to be fixed for the JP release.  Mainly it didn't blend characters correctly, and was disabled by forcing the width table to always look up the same character's width.

 * Menu text is also generally (but not always) fixed width, and spaces are used to clear old text.  So if you were looking at different items, the spaces at the end of descriptions would erase previous descriptions.  All these places had to be separated so there's a "clear width" and a "string length".

 * Some text was embedded into structs or stored in RAM with limited space, although this was limited.

But yes, most of the mechanics for VWF were already there, so this was not all that complicated in general.  The game even loads a word with only the lower 2 bytes used for length and height of menu text, so it was easy to use the third byte for clear width.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: julayla on July 17, 2020, 12:55:20 pm
To be honest, this hidden gem deserves a translation. I just hope the translation will be good and worth it.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on July 18, 2020, 08:16:10 am
Unknown-san, thank you for your efforts with Tomato Adventure! You have taken a look at Mato-san's tools, right?

1. Showcard Gothic is a suitable font, but I think it would be really cool to have a custom font on the title screen. Maybe I can hire someone via Fiverr to create a custom font for the title screen if you want... I think that the logo should have the same colors as the original logo. There isn't a "G" in the game's title unfortunately, so I don't know where to place the gear, but I want to keep it animated.

2. Yes, I'm from Sweden, but I'm very good at Swedish. We use the three extra characters å, ä and ö (ÅÄÖ). Although I need to finish my studies before I have the time to translate to my native language. I asked Japan's ambassador here in Sweden if he wanted to translate the game, but no reply like expected.

3. Scripting languages does have their benefits, don't they?

4. I wholeheartedly think that you should use the nice font from the great game Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga.

5. This font would be perfect for the GAME OVER screen and perhaps even for the title screen: http://www.dafont.com/electroharmonix.font
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ProstatePunch on July 21, 2020, 11:40:24 am
Logo A does look very nice, but for some reason Logo C keeps drawing me back... Maybe it's the aspect ratio?  Maybe its the gear in the "o".
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: binarck on July 21, 2020, 12:25:47 pm
A = It is good. Maybe a bit thick. Not sure if drop shadows is bit distracting.
B = Clean and visually easy to identify every letter and pixel.
C = Interesting but too crowded? Same size letters is a bit turning me off.

Guess I'll lean towards B but only when going through all 3 like a slideshow. A is my runner-up.

Maybe a font between size A/B would fit my senses. I'm still unsure about the shadow.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 23, 2020, 01:36:05 am
Thanks for the feedback.

Here's a new version of the logo, somewhat between A and B:
https://imgur.com/a/VFnSCWY

Personally I think it's a good combination of the good points of A and B.  The designer took into account the feedback here.

I think Electroharmonix is an interesting font, but it gives off a different feel than I think the title has.  The font above is Gamejot (https://www.dafont.com/gamejot.font) (and has been customized) which is a free (not open source) font.

There's a good place for a G with a gear - the Gimica card back:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/master/images/gimica_card_jpn.png
(the text is just "Gimica".)

These tools are based on Mato/Tomato's initial tools.

Just for some other updates:

I've come across and patched a bug in the game which corrupted the long names.  So far everything seems to work well through Tartar Valley up to Soy City, at least.

The Gimica (card game) tutorial text is now properly translatable and can be made longer as well.

The text shown during Sofubii's "Awesome" or "Cool" sequence is now properly translatable too.

MiYakuGaming (https://github.com/MiYakuGaming) has contributed some translations for battle messages.  Hoping we can work that together with the script Demille (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=93545) was working on.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: binarck on July 24, 2020, 10:39:32 pm
Quote
Here's a new version of the logo, somewhat between A and B:
https://imgur.com/a/VFnSCWY

Personally I think it's a good combination of the good points of A and B.  The designer took into account the feedback here.

It hits the highlights of previous work, and retains the clarity plus stands out in a bold, fasionable way.

Strong nod to the original Japan logo, with a good touch of balance. Passes my "living room" test.


Agreed. Nice approval to the designer. :)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: zik999 on August 05, 2020, 02:23:53 am
Whoop, subscribed to this thread. Hope you will succeed, I really want to play this game.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on August 27, 2020, 12:58:14 am
More image questions:

https://imgur.com/a/kHcQ0PB

How does the Gimica card look?  This is shown in the menu for cards you don't have yet, and also during the game while cards are played.

Then there's the Gimmick type badges.  They are four categories:

 * Timing
 * Dokidoki / other
 * Mashing
 * Speed

I think the way it looks in Japanese is very unbalanced.  The Gimmick icon is 4x4 tiles, and the badge is 5x1, which just makes the icon look off center.  I think they're also hard to read.  I'm wondering if it'd be better without the white line behind them and left aligned where possible.

Not sure if I want to take too much license changing things, though.  What do people think?

In other news, the person who had a semi-finished script hasn't really been responding for a while now, I think things got busy for them irl.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: PowerPanda on August 27, 2020, 10:35:21 am
I love the card back. You nailed that.

I see what you're saying on the type badges, and would agree that a 4x1 would look much better than a 5x1. I wonder if a half-width font could do it for you, or if it would be better to simply have an icon denoting the type.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Pennywise on September 09, 2020, 10:17:36 am
Would you have any interest in translating/hacking Gimmick Land?

I just found this out, but apparently there's a bunch of new beta ROMs etc floating around now and Gimmick Land is among them. This is the game that Alpha Dream developed, basically finished (from what I understand), and then ported it to the GBA as Tomato Adventure. Either way, it's fascinating stuff.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 09, 2020, 11:16:43 pm
Could be interesting.  I imagine pixel size restraints might be even more limiting, so a translation might be even more tough.

Would be interesting to compare features.  The code for Gimica looks different in several places than non-Gimica code, and I wonder if it was in Gimmick Land.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: celebi23 on September 12, 2020, 03:48:34 pm
Looking forward for the Tomato Adventure translation and possible Gimmick Land translation as well.  Thanks for taking charge on this  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 14, 2020, 03:44:15 pm
The insertion tool with VWF is great.

I played around with translating so I could at least understand the items and menus in the game.

Since I can't find any translated stuff beyond the bare basics, here's what I've got. I'm no translator but I figured stuff out.
I made a few small changes to make things fit. For example I changed chameleo cologne (which doesn't fit) to spy spray.

ta_menus_eng.txt (https://file.io/vejC1h8gLeOO)

(https://i.ibb.co/wpB8fFT/screenshot.png) (https://ibb.co/wpB8fFT)

Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on September 14, 2020, 04:16:07 pm
Njosro-san, I must mention that "spy spray" is a really creative alternative, so two thumbs up.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Baggins on September 16, 2020, 11:28:11 pm
Spy Spray is pretty cool alternative!

But what are your limits? "Camo" (short for camoflage) might work instead of Chameleon...
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 17, 2020, 09:13:44 pm
Thanks guys!
You can use the text file to change it to whatever you want. The limit is the visual space in pixels.

Here's an updated version that has descriptions for a bunch of gimmicks that I was able to piece together:

Updated english menu text (https://srv-file6.gofile.io/downloadStore/srv-store2/ZAI1hq/ta_menus_eng.txt)

It's not perfect, but it's good enough for me right now.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Dy7CTbBh/test.png) (https://postimages.org/)  (https://i.postimg.cc/pX1K69Sq/test.png) (https://postimages.org/)


As a quick bonus, I also tried my hand at translating one of the quizzes. Again, I'm no translator, but it's good enough for me!
(https://i.postimg.cc/15c38bG6/test2.png) (https://postimages.org/)  (https://i.postimg.cc/dVstrn6f/test3.png) (https://postimages.org/) (https://postimages.org/)  (https://i.postimg.cc/tR6Tjs7B/test.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 18, 2020, 10:46:52 am
Great, I'm glad everything is working well for those changes.

Hm, maybe I should move the gimmick names left a tile to give more space.

The English menu text link is giving me a not found error.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Pennywise on September 18, 2020, 11:34:56 am
Yeah, it looks like you can move the text around to free up space for the items by a tile or two.

Incidentally, I thought I should mention that I've been told that the text between versions is basically 1:1.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 18, 2020, 12:42:08 pm
Thanks for letting me know. I updated the link with a different file host this time.

Now I got to the part of the game where I'm in a halloween town and there's another quiz guy there. The quiz is really neat with 3 parts: a regular quiz, a name-that-character quiz, and a speed round! But of course I understood none of the questions :P

The hardest part about trying to insert a translation without knowing Japanese is finding the right indexes to add text to.

Here's my English script file. Again, it's not the best, and it only has some text from the lagoon place and the quiz guy in the christmas ship, but it's something.

Feel free to add to it. Maybe we can collectively translate a good chunk of important text. :)

English script (https://srv-file6.gofile.io/downloadStore/srv-store2/VqqM2Q/ta_script_eng.txt)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 19, 2020, 11:27:58 am
The hardest part about trying to insert a translation without knowing Japanese is finding the right indexes to add text to.

https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans#mock-insertion

Use the mock insertion / force translation mode.  It will replace normal characters in any untranslated text with for example S123 to indicate script 123.  Note that it currently only replaces Japanese, so if the text is "A-A-Achoo" it'd replace with "S-1-23AAA", if you get the idea.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on September 20, 2020, 10:16:05 am
Njosro-san, thank you for the great progress, but shouldn't the word "okay" be shortened with only capital letters like "OK"?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 21, 2020, 06:20:49 pm
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans#mock-insertion

Use the mock insertion / force translation mode.  It will replace normal characters in any untranslated text with for example S123 to indicate script 123.  Note that it currently only replaces Japanese, so if the text is "A-A-Achoo" it'd replace with "S-1-23AAA", if you get the idea.

-[Unknown]

Thank you! I was wondering what that meant. That makes things so much easier.

You wouldn't happen to have made some sort of previewing tool, would you? I'm making one for myself right now for dialog boxes but it's just based on my own observations of the text. I'd rather not reinvent something that already exists.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 21, 2020, 11:55:35 pm
Yes, although I haven't added too much to it.  You can use this:
https://jsfiddle.net/unknownbrackets/qdcy2jot/2/

Just select Settings in the top right and switch to "Bottom results".  Even if it doesn't have all layouts, you can switch between the two fonts.

Njosro-san, thank you for the great progress, but shouldn't the word "okay" be shortened with only capital letters like "OK"?

That's just a stylistic preference, and there's plenty of free space.  It should probably be consistent throughout but that's more for an editing pass.  We're not there yet.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 22, 2020, 01:54:55 pm
Excellent!! Thanks for sharing.

I've added convenience buttons to insert the common special text commands, like [WAIT].

(https://i.postimg.cc/R6PtRjGn/Screenshot-2020-09-22-134717.png) (https://postimg.cc/R6PtRjGn)

I've saved the HTML and JavaScript code into text files. Let me know if you're interested in updating your fiddle with them.

This tool will really help. Thanks for making it.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ThegreatBen on September 23, 2020, 06:31:06 pm
This looks fun, I'll be following this.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on September 27, 2020, 12:26:43 pm
Quick update.

Spill Village - 99% translated
Celemo's tutorials - 100% translated

Rock Island - 70%
Shipwreck - 10 %
Ouch Concert Hall - 5%

Gimmick Palace - 99%
Ending sequence - 99%


Most gimmicks have been translated, except the ones I haven't got.

All the cool move names and descriptions have been translated.

All of this is possible thanks to [Unknown]'s tools and Clyde Madelin's Youtube live translation playthrough! I use that as my main translation source, and use Google to fill in the blanks, or come up with my own interpretation somewhere in between.



All of Celemo's tutorials are translated now, which will help new players.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SQHVZ8Zc/test-0.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 03, 2020, 12:37:59 pm
Oh, hey.
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28838.0

EDIT: now that I am working closely with unknown, the link to the script is removed. However, progress is being made. Cool things are afoot.

I'm afraid there are still some other silly errors in there too, but them's the breaks for the moment. I think some dumb stuff got added in or words omitted during my re-sizing process and it cocked a few things up. Also, some of the control codes were whack as well... Whoops. Thankfully, they're small easy fixes when you're documenting them during a play test.

Enjoy it. EDIT - looks like you already have the font issues sorted out. Cheers. Message me with any questions. Or find me on the Romhacking Discord. Either way works (though the latter would be faster and far more likely to be checked)

Addtl EDIT: Some of the spacing may still need to be adjusted. I recommend playing the game normally with the text inserted and jotting down what needs to be massaged. Your script inserter is incredible and never crashes in places it used to have trainwrecks, but very occasional dialogue boxes dip over by 1 letter or so. Not often. Top work.

- Demille
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: cccmar on October 03, 2020, 12:39:20 pm
https://files.catbox.moe/rj34c9.txt - looks like Demille from the other thread (Help Wanted section) translated the script and put it for everyone to use up on the RHDN discord, but he couldn't add it for now on the forum. Decided to drop the link here, since he said anyone could use it to finish the project. Might come in handy if you are still on it. :)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on October 04, 2020, 12:14:54 am
Very cool.  I'll find some time soon to start reviewing and doing some editing / validate letter fitting.  I think this'll be a good time to prep a glossary of terms to stay consistent, like the gimmick types and etc. just for when they're mentioned in dialog.

I haven't figured out if any of the shop names have references in the dialog, but there's some strings like that to review as well.  Those images still need to be adjusted, although I did the "erasing" already for the person who's been doing the graphics.

Thanks for following up and posting your script here.  Definitely a lot of good work and care.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 04, 2020, 12:24:00 am
Very cool.  I'll find some time soon to start reviewing and doing some editing / validate letter fitting.  I think this'll be a good time to prep a glossary of terms to stay consistent, like the gimmick types and etc. just for when they're mentioned in dialog.

I haven't figured out if any of the shop names have references in the dialog, but there's some strings like that to review as well.  Those images still need to be adjusted, although I did the "erasing" already for the person who's been doing the graphics.

Thanks for following up and posting your script here.  Definitely a lot of good work and care.

-[Unknown]

I'm going through and doing a little bit of massaging and editing again to find missing and broken control code, so I may post fresher links as time goes on. A lot of items and gimmicks and the like are already different from what I had in mind, but I'm sure that there can be some way to come to a decision on what's what.
...Though the Pothead's gotta stay Pothead, and the 毒取るコーヒー needs to be Dr. Java, for the love of all that is good :)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: njosro on October 06, 2020, 08:00:49 pm
And here I was thinking everyone else had abandoned translation efforts.

I'm glad it's still being worked on.

EDIT: I've translated a bunch of menu stuff. Would you be interested in having it or were you thinking of doing it yourself?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 06, 2020, 11:21:08 pm
And here I was thinking everyone else had abandoned translation efforts.

I'm glad it's still being worked on.

EDIT: I've translated a bunch of menu stuff. Would you be interested in having it or were you thinking of doing it yourself?

As it goes, I knocked it all out on my own. Had I realized you'd done it, I'd have gladly taken you up on it. Oh well, my loss :(
(https://i.imgur.com/tsL24Zo.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/qlNZIfI.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ilV826c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1wpFxia.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/eqw22Wf.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/u2SOK7R.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oaGS7Vq.jpg)

Sorry about the awful looking filter, forgot to disable it in retroarch.
Those blasted tutorials were a pain to get to fit neatly... Well, some of them anyway.

EDIT: I know the change from a truncated form of GIMMICK to FIGHT on the battle menu is a potentially controversial change, but nothing is final, I just wanted something that looks tidy for the time being.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Ziko on October 07, 2020, 12:14:04 am
This is looking great! I completed this game a while ago but I'd like this to be finished to go back to see the changes as well as get the gimmicks I missed toward the end. I also never played the card game minigame either.

Oh, did you know that the GBC version of this leaked a month ago? Will you translate that one too?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 07, 2020, 12:26:44 am
This is looking great! I completed this game a while ago but I'd like this to be finished to go back to see the changes as well as get the gimmicks I missed toward the end. I also never played the card game minigame either.

Oh, did you know that the GBC version of this leaked a month ago? Will you translate that one too?
Spoiler for the card minigame: It's bad
Spoiler:
because the CPU cheats
. Play Kotobattle instead if you want a good Alphadream card experience. Gimmick Land is currently being looked at by at least one person I'm aware of who is trying to deal with technical things like implementing some kind of variable width font. As the scripts are largely the same, I don't see why a translation couldn't happen for that too if the hacking bits are sorted out.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Pennywise on October 07, 2020, 05:23:35 pm
If you don't like the abbreviated Gimmick, you could probably just paint "Gimmick" in with a slightly thinner font to fit in that screen space.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Ziko on October 07, 2020, 05:59:39 pm
Spoiler for the card minigame: It's bad
Spoiler:
because the CPU cheats
. Play Kotobattle instead if you want a good Alphadream card experience. Gimmick Land is currently being looked at by at least one person I'm aware of who is trying to deal with technical things like implementing some kind of variable width font. As the scripts are largely the same, I don't see why a translation couldn't happen for that too if the hacking bits are sorted out.

Oh glad to know that about the minigame. I did play Kotobattle but got bored of it quickly as the progress is very slow and your main beast is sidelined for much of the game which sucks. I hope y'all can translate the GBC version soon but this comes first so I can rest easy knowing that.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on October 08, 2020, 12:16:10 pm
Demille-san, it (menu stuff) looks very good indeed!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 08, 2020, 07:36:01 pm
Demille-san, it (menu stuff) looks very good indeed!
Thank you! You have unknown to thank for how well these have come along. My text is nothing without the skills of those who are handy with code.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ArkthePieKing on October 09, 2020, 07:16:48 am
This is looking great! I completed this game a while ago but I'd like this to be finished to go back to see the changes as well as get the gimmicks I missed toward the end. I also never played the card game minigame either.

Oh, did you know that the GBC version of this leaked a month ago? Will you translate that one too?

Seconding this. Even if the OP doesn't pick this up, I would pay my weight in gold for a translation of the GBC version now that it's out on the internet.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: mikeprado30 on October 10, 2020, 12:55:03 am
I do it for seeing both versions (GBC & GBA) translated :happy:
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: NintenJake on October 10, 2020, 12:54:36 pm
Hello, I'm looking for someone rip the sounds files off the rom for the Tomato Adventure prototype Gimmick Land. Thanks. Btw, keep up the great work on the English translation! Cannot wait to play the game fully in English someday!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 21, 2020, 03:43:40 am
(https://files.catbox.moe/xppk20.png)
(https://files.catbox.moe/n168ds.png)
(https://files.catbox.moe/mbq2e1.png)
(https://files.catbox.moe/fz86uz.png)
(https://files.catbox.moe/1oh0n6.png)

Just posting a random update. We've got a lot of lovely Comic Sans, Impact, and hand-drawn fonts making their way into the graphics pool.  :D
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on October 22, 2020, 02:16:03 pm
Comic Sans?! You are kidding, right, Demille-san? I wholeheartedly think that you should use the nice font from the great game Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Demille on October 22, 2020, 02:25:25 pm
Comic Sans?! You are kidding, right, Demille-san? I wholeheartedly think that you should use the nice font from the great game Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga!
You're right, I AM kidding  :angel: these are merely placeholders, after all. Once a real artist with truly magical hands has their way with them, it will be beautiful. Sadly, those hands are not mine - perhaps the final Super Kid, Chekkit, would be willing to lend one of those hand/wing things to our cause...
(https://files.catbox.moe/l571lm.jpg)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on October 22, 2020, 04:16:02 pm
Demille-san, it does looks like Pablo Picasso's child, so go for it.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: SirDavey420 on November 23, 2020, 09:53:03 am
Heya!  Got any updates?   I check this site religiously as I await the most Tomato-ey of adventures..   Also If you need any testers I would be happy too!   At my work i sometimes can not work so gba gets alot of love  ::)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ArkthePieKing on December 12, 2020, 09:10:59 pm
Was the prospect of the GBC version being translated ever discussed in any official (for this thread) capacity? I know myself and some others had offhandedly mentioned wanting to see that happen.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: mgrid16 on December 16, 2020, 09:48:45 pm
This English translation looks very good. I am looking forward to playing this game after the translation gets released.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on December 23, 2020, 06:56:08 pm
Heya!  Got any updates?   I check this site religiously as I await the most Tomato-ey of adventures..   Also If you need any testers I would be happy too!   At my work i sometimes can not work so gba gets alot of love  ::)

There's no release yet, but you can build the current in-progress version from here: https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/tree/demille
(you'll have to "build" it but it's pretty easy to.)

I've been a bit busier recently and so has the person working on graphics, but currently waiting on some updated graphics.

Was the prospect of the GBC version being translated ever discussed in any official (for this thread) capacity? I know myself and some others had offhandedly mentioned wanting to see that happen.

Gimmick Land (GBC) was mentioned earlier.  I haven't really looked at it at this point, although I suspect the reduced resolution would lead to a more limited and abbrevitation-ridden translation (thinking specifically of menus, Gimmick names, etc.) at best.  So I'm more interested in Tomato Adventure with the time I currently have.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Paris on February 18, 2021, 12:40:13 am
Hello friends.

Out of curiosity today, I did a little googling to see if Tomato Adventure had ever gotten a fan translation and stumbled upon this thread. I played part of the original in Japanese a while back, as I've been learning the language for a bit, but just wanted to pop in and say two things.

1. I compiled and played the first bit of the game and, so far, everything is wonderful! The translation is great, and I can tell how passionate y'all are about this game!

2. If you need any help with the translation, particularly when it comes to localizing the graphics, please let me know. I am an indie dev myself and have quite a bit of experience with pixel art and pixel fonts. I would be happy to contribute whatever I can to the github repository. Just let me know if there's anything in particular that y'all could use some help with.

Anyway, that's all. Thanks for all your efforts!

 :beer:
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on March 11, 2021, 02:44:40 am
2. If you need any help with the translation, particularly when it comes to localizing the graphics, please let me know. I am an indie dev myself and have quite a bit of experience with pixel art and pixel fonts. I would be happy to contribute whatever I can to the github repository. Just let me know if there's anything in particular that y'all could use some help with.

There have been some recent updates to some of the images, I know one that was recently noticed was the sign on the Alcatraz hotel:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/demille/images/map005F_bg1_eng.png

There's a few more like Oya Yubi that still need some thought too.

Also need to go through and catch bugs and editing, please feel free to report any issues you see on the repo:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/issues

There's still an issue with credits as well which I haven't gotten around to fixing properly...

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on April 04, 2021, 08:58:53 pm
Just an update for those interested:

Got a little time, and fixed the credits issue.  It was encoded in a quasi Shift-JIS format and way more complicated than it needed to be.  Seemed like the person who worked on the credits display was trying to hack around a bug they didn't understand in the font drawing code.

Several shop name images are in now too, for example:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/demille/images/shop_03_eng.png
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/demille/images/shop_09_eng.png (I think we preserved this pun pretty well, gonna be tricky in other languages...)

There's still a few more images and then QA/cleanup.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: mikeprado30 on April 05, 2021, 06:37:53 am
That's really awesome, bro! Thanks a lot for your overwhelming efforts  :thumbsup: Hopefully this release will be a blast!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Twapsel on May 01, 2021, 12:29:17 pm
Hi there,

I really would like to know what the current status is?

Can you already pinpoint to a release date?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on June 20, 2021, 12:37:31 pm
All the images are replaced and all known bugs (so far) except a small one where sometimes the last letter of names is highlighted incorrectly in menus are fixed.  Have had trouble consistently reproducing that last one.

Editing is still underway.  If you want to take a look, you can check the "demille" branch on GitHub.  I doubt there'll be any changes up through Toy Ruin, but there's some in-progress editing work after that still.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Vortiene on July 01, 2021, 04:39:26 pm
Wonderful work!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 19, 2021, 03:13:25 am
Just an update for those interested.

Editing and some testing are still in progress.

A few improvements have been made otherwise:
 * Place names on the map have been lengthened.
 * Key items and some stat names have been made wider.
 * Hanzo sign images are now replaced (missed that this was Japanese until some testing.)
 * A certain enemy is hardcoded in the Japanese to have the initial name of a character in the party.  It now uses the name you enter (arguably a flaw even in the original game.)

There's one enemy attack found so far that includes a Japanese character, used sometimes by a regular enemy in the Balsamic Dome.  The artwork shows talismans over your character, and then 封 (which means "seal".)  The attack name shows the meaning, so it's essentially subtitled.  I'm planning to leave this attack image as-is, given the association with the talismans, etc.

A bug was also found in the name check (preventing you from giving two characters the exact same name), and has been fixed.  This was buggy in the original game too.  Back to no known bugs.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ArkthePieKing on July 23, 2021, 10:47:31 am
Oh that's hype! Always exciting to see new progress in a project I'm looking forward to. Thank you for your continued hard work, and the updates are always exciting and appreciated!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 25, 2021, 08:13:20 pm
Editing through the ending has completed.  The edited text has all been verified in game.  There was also another image replacement, for the Choo-Choo Gimmick (when you fail.)

I'll probably aim to make a release patch at some point soon, planning to use bps.

If anyone wants to try the latest from GitHub, any pre-release feedback/bugs would be appreciated:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/tree/demille

-[Unknown]

July 27, 2021, 08:11:08 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
It has now been released:
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/6181/

I suppose I could've waited another 6 months for the game's 20 year anniversary, but I decided not to be so cruel.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: EvilJagaGenius on July 28, 2021, 02:16:39 pm
Cool stuff!  I've only played a little so far but I'm liking it a lot, and I can feel the same off-the-wall humor from Mario & Luigi.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Dzumeister on July 29, 2021, 04:45:14 am
The work you all have done over the years is incredible! Thank you all for your efforts! I can't wait to test this on hardware.  :woot!:

(https://i.imgur.com/rCw4Edc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WzbReJO.jpg)
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: aqualung on July 29, 2021, 01:07:23 pm
Congratulations for the release to the whole team! This was one of the last "big" gba translations, looked forward by many people!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on July 29, 2021, 10:08:43 pm
I've received one bug report so far, which is fixed on GitHub.  It's only a minor issue, so I'll hold on making a another release for any other reports.

Some broken graphics display if you:
 * Open the menu.
 * Access either the Save or Gimica submenus.
 * Back out to the menu screen (but don't exit the menu entirely.)
 * Access the Equipment submenu.

As a workaround, you can simply exit the menu entirely and reopen.  But the graphics don't cover any text, and appear where there should just be blank space.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: NunofYerbizness on August 02, 2021, 03:34:33 pm
I wonder, are there any plans on translating the GBC proto (Gimmick Land) next?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on August 02, 2021, 11:11:22 pm
As an update, post release I've been made aware a couple small typos (the worst was "rememer".)

Additionally, there was some feedback that the text speed is on the slow side, and some of the people who worked on the graphics and testing pre-release agreed.  I've implemented a change to double the text speed (no change to the audio), and plan to include this in an upcoming release.

If you'd like to see it already before the release, it's on GitHub.  I also uploaded a test patch here:
https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/issues/16#issuecomment-890576711

I wonder, are there any plans on translating the GBC proto (Gimmick Land) next?

I'm not planning on it, for the following reasons:

1. While there are many people who have been waiting for a Tomato Adventure translation to experience, the number of people who want to actually experience Gimmick Land all the way through (not just as a trifling curiosity) is much lower.  Pivotally, I'm not even interested myself in playing it to the end (if it has one...)

2. The game leak was apparently unintentional and potentially unethical.  While I won't judge anyone else, it doesn't seem like something I want to devote my time to supporting.  Just following my own moral code.

3. It seems like resolution restrictions would make fitting English in some areas a lot more painful (66% as wide.)  Limitations can make programming fun when there are neat ways to work within them, but physical pixel limitations are more demotivating.

4. I have other things to do - I usually spend my free time contributing to PPSSPP, and we just hit > 1000 open issues because I haven't been giving it enough attention.

The translation source code and text is all on GitHub and open source licensed, so you're free to devote your time to Gimmick Land if that's your passion.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Pennywise on August 02, 2021, 11:37:31 pm
While it's claimed that Gimmick Land was finished, that doesn't actually appear to be the case. It seems that when the decision was made to go to GBA, they left a few things unfinished in the GBC version.

The battle backgrounds in the GBC version are just plain white while the GBA has more detailed backgrounds. Plus it seems that most characters aren't animated in battles. That alone makes me wonder what else the devs didn't quite finish before moving onto doing a GBA version.

I had seriously considered working on a translation, but it does appear that the GBC prototype is unfinished and in need of additional work to truly be complete. Plus why would someone bother working on an unfinished game when they could be doing other stuff? To my knowledge the prototype doesn't really have any content that's not present in the GBA release. In my opinion it would probably be a waste of one's time to work on a translation of the prototype.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: kilicool64 on August 04, 2021, 03:15:43 pm
While it's claimed that Gimmick Land was finished, that doesn't actually appear to be the case. It seems that when the decision was made to go to GBA, they left a few things unfinished in the GBC version.

The battle backgrounds in the GBC version are just plain white while the GBA has more detailed backgrounds. Plus it seems that most characters aren't animated in battles. That alone makes me wonder what else the devs didn't quite finish before moving onto doing a GBA version.

I had seriously considered working on a translation, but it does appear that the GBC prototype is unfinished and in need of additional work to truly be complete. Plus why would someone bother working on an unfinished game when they could be doing other stuff? To my knowledge the prototype doesn't really have any content that's not present in the GBA release. In my opinion it would probably be a waste of one's time to work on a translation of the prototype.

That seems unlikely to me. Keep in mind that Gimmick Land was leaked as part of the GB and GBC ROMs that were submitted to Nintendo's Lotcheck division. Their job was to review ROMs their publishers deemed ready for release. If a ROM of Gimmick Land was submitted to them, it should have been intended for release in exactly that state. In fact, I believe it was one of the ROMs that passed Lotcheck's review.

It's possible that the graphical shortcomings of the original version were either necessitated by hardware or space limitations. Either that, or the budget or time Nintendo gave AlphaDream for the development of Gimmick Land simply wasn't sufficient for more graphical complexity.

Personally, I'd still be very interested in seeing what the game was originally like, but I wouldn't expect any huge differences outside of the graphics and sound. You can kinda tell that Tomato Adventure wasn't originally intended to be a GBA game. And yeah, the harsher technical limitations could make a fan translation tough, even now that most of the script is already translated. Still, if a proper English patch is ever released, I'd play it.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: PZT on August 05, 2021, 08:12:07 am
While it's claimed that Gimmick Land was finished, that doesn't actually appear to be the case. It seems that when the decision was made to go to GBA, they left a few things unfinished in the GBC version.

The battle backgrounds in the GBC version are just plain white while the GBA has more detailed backgrounds. Plus it seems that most characters aren't animated in battles. That alone makes me wonder what else the devs didn't quite finish before moving onto doing a GBA version.

I had seriously considered working on a translation, but it does appear that the GBC prototype is unfinished and in need of additional work to truly be complete. Plus why would someone bother working on an unfinished game when they could be doing other stuff? To my knowledge the prototype doesn't really have any content that's not present in the GBA release. In my opinion it would probably be a waste of one's time to work on a translation of the prototype.
It passed lotcheck and was assigned a product code and everything though, doesn't that mean it essentially "went gold" and was ready to ship?
Plain white backgrounds might have been just how the game was intended to look originally, Pokemon also has plain white backgrounds on the same tech
If none of the characters were animated I'd also say that was how that's intended to look, but your post makes it sound like it's inconsistent which characters are animated and which aren't, that does sound like a point in favor of it being unfinished
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: zuzma on August 05, 2021, 10:36:56 am
It feels like a complete game to me, I'm playing it now because I wanted to compare it to tomato adventure. I'm pretty sure the backgrounds and character animation were intended to be like that, it sort of reminds me of pokemon. They probably changed it because they had more space on the gameboy advance cart. Then again the gba one feels more like a port then a completely different game. I don't think it's really worth translating if you ask me except for maybe historical reasons.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: CrazyMLC on August 06, 2021, 02:38:43 am
As far as I'm aware, the text of Gimmick Land is identical to Tomato Adventure.
If you're already familiar with the events of Tomato Adventure, you can just play through Gimmick Land untranslated and not miss much if anything.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on August 16, 2021, 10:16:20 am
Unknown-san, thank you all so very much for this superb translation! Nintendo is in your debt.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on August 21, 2021, 11:34:34 pm
A couple people made a comment on this dialog:

Quote
The gal at the counter...
is in fact a dude dressed
up as a gal.
As the saying goes -
different strokes for
different folks.

It's a relatively, but not exactly, direct translation from the Japanese:

Quote
うけつけの子って じつは‥‥
男の子 なのよ.
女の子みたいな カッコしてるけど
あれは 本人の シュミなのよ.

Which doesn't refer to a saying but rather refers to the activity as a word that is often translated as "hobby".

I'm considering if it should be changed (which would basically have to move it away from the original Japanese meaning), or just left be.  An alternate I'm considering:

Quote
The gal at the counter...
used to act like a dude.
I think she likes it better
this way.

For context, another character refers to this same person as "a real cutie", but that's about all there is here and none of it is even slightly important to the plot.  My intent is not to offend anyone, but just to have a version of the game people can play.

I will say, if this game had been released in 2021, I doubt this character would've said this.

Anyone have any opinions here?

Also, as an update, a few small spacing and line wrapping tweaks have been pushed to GitHub.  Nothing major.  I do plan to make an updated release soon, so if I decide to change this dialog, I want to include it in the upcoming release.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: emilydotgif on August 21, 2021, 11:44:10 pm
As a trans woman, I think the last one is much better. Seems a lot more kind and accepting of trans people than the first one. Thank you for asking the community before doing anything final, I appreciate you wanting to know how others feel about it :) I've already played half of the game in its current translated format and I love it and can't wait to see the final product <3

A couple people made a comment on this dialog:

It's a relatively, but not exactly, direct translation from the Japanese:

Which doesn't refer to a saying but rather refers to the activity as a word that is often translated as "hobby".

I'm considering if it should be changed (which would basically have to move it away from the original Japanese meaning), or just left be.  An alternate I'm considering:

For context, another character refers to this same person as "a real cutie", but that's about all there is here and none of it is even slightly important to the plot.  My intent is not to offend anyone, but just to have a version of the game people can play.

I will say, if this game had been released in 2021, I doubt this character would've said this.

Anyone have any opinions here?

Also, as an update, a few small spacing and line wrapping tweaks have been pushed to GitHub.  Nothing major.  I do plan to make an updated release soon, so if I decide to change this dialog, I want to include it in the upcoming release.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Captain Tudmoke on August 21, 2021, 11:56:24 pm
In my opinion, your proposed edit successfully straddles the line between textual fidelity and cultural sensitivity—the gist of the text as you relay it seems to be that the character is perfectly fine with the "shumi" of the gal at the counter, which in 2021 would likely map onto acceptance of her gender identity. And it's just ambiguous enough that the character isn't quite "outing" her (maybe she's a cis woman who went through a tomboy phase!), but the intended meaning is clear enough to anyone willing to read between the lines. Very solid stuff!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on August 24, 2021, 10:16:16 am
Unknown-san, I want the English translation to be as similar to the Japanese text as possible!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Masaru on August 24, 2021, 10:33:10 am
Unknown-san, I want the English translation to be as similar to the Japanese text as possible!
In theory you can do it by yourself with the source code
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: zuzma on August 24, 2021, 10:38:42 am
I'd say just use the second one for the sake of not getting into some kind of argument over it even if the original text isn't very nice to begin with.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: aqualung on August 24, 2021, 12:49:07 pm
I'd say just use the second one for the sake of not getting into some kind of argument over it even if the original text isn't very nice to begin with.

It's a sad state of affairs how "hawingtowalkoneggshells-ish" the fantranslations scene has been forced to become.

In any case, given it's just a minor modification that affects only a single line of text, I'd release two patches. One with the literal translation and another more friendly with sensitive people.

Another thing I thought is: sometimes, a word becoming a slur happens so suddenly that translators can end up using a word without even knowing it and end up receiving an undeserved bashing. So, is there a website like a "slur-pedia" in which one could consult a word he/she suspects might be offensive before adding it into a translation? Because, if there isn't, it might be a nice idea to create one.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: zuzma on August 24, 2021, 01:23:36 pm
I don't think it's really worth releasing two patches over such a minor change. Nintendo would have taken that out in a localization probably. Anyway I was mostly just concerned because another translation had a similar issue and the outcome was much worse
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: CrazyMLC on August 24, 2021, 02:57:48 pm
It's a sad state of affairs how "hawingtowalkoneggshells-ish" the fantranslations scene has been forced to become.

In any case, given it's just a minor modification that affects only a single line of text, I'd release two patches. One with the literal translation and another more friendly with sensitive people.
[...]
At the end of the day, we are releasing for the audience of 2021, not the audience of 2002. The only sad part is that we didn't do our job properly the first time... even after this change, there will be people who decide not to play the game because of the original dialogue. And it'll be because we made a mistake.

There is no way that a second patch is being released for a single line of throwaway dialogue by a random NPC. If it's something you want, however...

In theory you can do it by yourself with the source code
Yes, and it would be pretty simple. After cloning the GitHub repo (https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans) to your PC, you could edit ta_script_eng.txt (https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/master/ta_script_eng.txt) however you see fit. [Unknown] has made modifying the game remarkably easy.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: aqualung on August 24, 2021, 03:20:56 pm
At the end of the day, we are releasing for the audience of 2021, not the audience of 2002. The only sad part is that we didn't do our job properly the first time... even after this change, there will be people who decide not to play the game because of the original dialogue. And it'll be because we made a mistake.

There is no way that a second patch is being released for a single line of throwaway dialogue by a random NPC. If it's something you want, however...
Yes, and it would be pretty simple. After cloning the GitHub repo (https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans) to your PC, you could edit ta_script_eng.txt (https://github.com/unknownbrackets/tomatotrans/blob/master/ta_script_eng.txt) however you see fit. [Unknown] has made modifying the game remarkably easy.

The way I see it, the ones making a mistake are the ones not wanting to play it because of a single line that can be easily ignored. But to each their own, it's their loss, not ours  ;) I've played lots of games with dialogs saying things I don't 100% agree, and this has never stopped myself from enjoying them.

About modifying the patch by oneself, precisely this week I'm taking a 3 day course on the use of git and github, so if anyone really wants the game to be patched with the untouched, original dialogue meaning, I'm willing to do it.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: sharksnack on August 24, 2021, 03:56:46 pm
I find it bizarre that people would be offended by that dialogue. The character saying "different strokes for different folks" shows that they don't think it's a problem, and accepts them for who they are. (or at worst, they're neutral about it)

It's one thing to censor slurs, but to censor a mention of crossdressing in a context where it's being accepted? I feel like it's a case of people looking to be offended / trying to stir up controversy for fun instead of taking a close look at what's actually being said.

So alright, let's say some players somehow genuinely feel uncomfortable after reading that. How will they learn to tolerate discomfort if they continue to try and bend whatever they don't like? Perhaps it's time to do some introspection and understand that not everything is a personal attack.

I realize this comes across strongly, and I don't mean to be insensitive at all. It's just frustrating to see translations (not just this game, but in general) bend to the will of a few vocal people who are looking to be offended, rather than preserving the original character.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: VicVergil on August 24, 2021, 04:32:31 pm
I don't think Alphadream made anything worth getting offended about here.
Crossdressing (the actual words used... which could be safely called a "hobby" or a "preference", unlike gender orientation) isn't something offensive that needs to be censored in 2021. Nintendo games no longer censor crossdressing when localized. The existence of crossdressers in real life isn't offensive.

The maintainers of the translation shouldn't erase trap/crossdressing subculture, or fall into this rabbit hole of accidentally introducing offensive content by rewriting the multi-line characterization of an NPC into something it's not meant to be. It's a disaster waiting to happen. And I'm sure the people demanding this change will be the first to change their tone and blame the translators for the consequences when that happens. On the other hand, THEY won't accept any responsibility for that change. Until I see them putting effort in an actual patch under THEIR NAME that includes their improvements rather than half-hearted visions, that entitlement rings hollow.

The compromise of including two versions of the patch is ideal, even though reinterpreting entire characterizations is better served in hacks where that's the entire purpose (like the gender neutral Legend of Zelda retranslations) and where the author is focused on that matter rather than translation.
Including the original version is desirable to avoid the translation team being held as prejudiced against crossdressers, or holding views that trivialize the lived transgender experience.

You think Alphadream playing it safe with a crossdressing NPC was a missed opportunity compared to writing a trans character? The game has even more missed opportunities in its writing. You can write better fanfiction with more depth to all of those characters and submit it as a patch to improve the writing of the game, and it will be the first of its kind... well, the third, after Mother 3 and Secret of Mana. All tools are available for that.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: CrazyMLC on August 24, 2021, 04:43:30 pm
Unfortunately, the current translation is very vague. It doesn't mention a "hobby" (crossdressing) of any kind, and leaves it up to the reader to decide why a gal would "in fact" be a dude.
It is not literal, and it is not particularly faithful. It should be changed, by any standard.

For those of you wanting a literal, "faithful to the original" translation, neither translation should satisfy you. You're probably looking for something like this:
Quote
That receptionist...
Is a dude.
He dresses like a
gal as a hobby.
Hopefully this illustrates that attributing more accuracy to the current translation is a mistake; translation is an iterative process, not something that is successful on the first try.
Unfortunately, it's too late for that kind of translation, even we wanted to go with it.

Many people have already assumed (justifiably so) that the receptionist is actually a transwoman, who is being misgendered and disrespected by this NPC.
While we could fix this by making the translation more accurate, but I don't think we are in a position to ignore what's already been published and viewed by so many people.
Would removing the transwoman receptionist not be just another form of "censorship"?

That's the consequence of having to fix a poorly translated line of dialogue like this. We will be accused of censorship no matter what choice we make. That's why it's our mistake that we didn't catch it before release.

Anyways, does the alternate translation [Unknown] showed actually remove the concept of crossdressing? I believe it could still be read that way, like Captain Tudmoke mentioned.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: VicVergil on August 24, 2021, 05:41:15 pm
For those of you wanting a literal, "faithful to the original" translation, neither translation should satisfy you. You're probably looking for something like this

Err... no.
I can read Japanese and that quote of yours is inaccurate.

うけつけの子って じつは‥‥
男の子 なのよ.
女の子みたいな カッコしてるけど
あれは 本人の シュミなのよ.

=

"That kid (gender-neutral) you're looking for, is actually... a boy (child).
[The kid] is dressed in girly-looking clothes, but that's personal hobbies for you, I guess."

I tried to keep it as literal as possible, without assuming any gender or characterization.
The way Alphadream wrote this is offensive only if YOU take offense at crossdressers expressing themselves without being misgendered based on their looks. The available information in the game about this character is that it's a child male character, you want it misgendered, while accusing others (Alphadream, the translators, your critics) of misgendering it. Then it's just as likely you turn back on your words and blame the translators for misgendering this character AFTER they implement the "fix". (All what it would take is an art book about Tomato Adventure being discovered that proves that this character is canonically male, then YOU would say it's the translator's fault.)

At this point, it's very clear this is very outside of the scope of how the translation process should be like.

If you think every "man with a dress" is actually transgender, your worldview is very reductive of transgender issues and what gender identity means. What you're advocating for is something Nintendo would be blamed for if they did it in 2021. Just imagine if JoJo translators had to follow your "localization guidelines".

You're not making the translation "more accurate" (the translator never committed a mistake in the first place, and "personal hobbies" = "different strokes for different folks", the second one is even less vague, like what the hell with blaming the translator here?) but you're blaming the translator for content written by the original developers which you want changed in a way you could still blame him for but then it would be HIS responsibility.



Please have a more positive contribution to this project, and make a new patch on your own. The tools are all there. Look up all of the lines that refer to this NPC (who's part of a sidequest, and whom lots of other NPCs refer to, with the original trap crossdresser characterization in mind which would be incredibly distasteful interactions as a transwoman character) and work on YOUR patch that changes how this character identifies as. Because that's a pretty big deal, one that YOU should take responsibility for, because YOU want to change the story of this game, not to fix a mistake the TRANSLATOR made.

Your demands are outside of the scope of a translator's job (hobby, in this case). Please don't try to cause the translators trouble with things they shouldn't be liable for.

I'm beyond appalled positive representation of crossdressers is something you perceive as a problem. I'll need to take a break from this thread lest I lose the little faith in humanity I have left.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: CrazyMLC on August 24, 2021, 06:00:24 pm
If you think every "man with a dress" is actually transgender, your worldview is very reductive of transgender issues and what gender identity means. What you're advocating for is something Nintendo would be blamed for if they did it in 2021. Just imagine if JoJo translators had to follow your "localization guidelines".
I think you misunderstand me...
I am not speaking of my own experience of the game.

Because I worked on the translation as an artist, I have been watching playthroughs and viewing comments online about it, wondering if I missed any graphics that might need to be edited.
I have watched at least one playthrough end because the streamers were told that the game contained "transphobic dialogue," as well as multiple comments online about the same "transphobic dialogue" making people uninterested in playing the game.
I didn't know what they were talking about, until I found a tweet mentioning this dialogue by someone I had been @'d by.
There are even transwomen within this very thread that are appreciative of the modified dialogue. I find it difficult to simply ignore them and say the old dialogue has no problems. What would you do?


I apologize for my negative comments about the translation; I have never talked to the translator myself, but I know for a fact they worked very hard on this script, and they've done a wonderful job overall.
Additionally, thank you for your efforts making a new translation of this line of dialogue.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: sharksnack on August 24, 2021, 06:54:09 pm
For whatever it's worth at this point, this is the tone I get when I read the dialogue in Japanese:

Did you know? The receptionist is actually a boy.
He's dressed like a girl, but that's his personal hobby.

The "did you know?" wasn't there in the original, but it's to try and make it clear in English that the NPC is just sharing a fact, rather than casting judgement - I've found ellipses as used in Japanese dialogue can be hard to understand for English speakers, so keeping them can be problematic. (I'm sure someone would still find a way to be offended with the above, though).

But yeah, it's really unfortunate that streamers and twitter latched on to a misunderstanding. Not sure what can be done about it honestly, since there's no end to people drooling with their pitchforks in hand waiting for the next bit of outrage.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on August 24, 2021, 07:49:51 pm
Well, I'm glad I asked because a lot of people seem to have very strong opinions about this small snippet of dialog.

I'd like to note that the v1.0.0 patch is not, in fact, excessively literal throughout.  For example, the original Japanese assumes (without so stating) that you of course know that traffic lights in Japan are red and blue (ish), a fact that we assumed most users of this translation would not know.

There's also plenty of rhymes and puns that are not exactly literal.  If that was your expectation, you may need to wait another 20 years for someone else to create a different patch.

My personal perspective is that I want someone to be able to reasonably understand the original meaning/intent.  I don't want to insert my own opinions into the dialog, but I also don't want to have "TL note: keikaku means plan."

As to this dialog, I just want to clarify that the subject of this dialog is a brief part of the main story (not a sidequest), who you must talk to in order to progress in the game.  Only two other characters refer to them, one of which with the dialog in question.

I don't have a strong opinion here, but it does seem to me that it's being interpreted by some in an unintentional way, with one person even asking if the saying was intended as a vulgarity.  Obviously, people can misinterpret any dialog, but it does seem like this particular dialog has been misinterpreted more frequently.

Making players choose between two versions of a translation patch for a single line of dialog seems a bit silly to me.  There was some disagreement during editing over things like "Tap" and "Press", but that also didn't deserve two separate patches.

I asked for feedback because I did want to understand the opinions of the community.  At the moment, I'm currently leaning on the side of changing it (perhaps using they instead of she to address the concern of removing the possible crossdressing interpretation), but I appreciate all the comments and have read through them.  There's no dialog that can please absolutely everyone, but there really must be a single recommended version of the patch.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: VicVergil on August 24, 2021, 09:32:53 pm
The "did you know?" wasn't there in the original,
It IS there in the original. Notice I left some parts in black.
Japanese use particles that denote tone, and the one here loosely implies that it's a girl saying this, stating a fact, trying to draw the attention of the speaker... Unless you want that tone lost, you include equivalent speech patterns from English.
That's the part where localizers can afford some free roam to spice up the line or make it sound natural. NOT changing the characterization entirely, adding memes, profanities (looking at you FF7R), or destroying the actual useful information.

But yeah, it's really unfortunate that streamers and twitter latched on to a misunderstanding. Not sure what can be done about it honestly, since there's no end to people drooling with their pitchforks in hand waiting for the next bit of outrage.

The original wasn't even "dress/act like a girl", but that the clothes are feminine/girly looking. It's an adjective for the clothing itself. Even a Scottish middle-aged guy in a kilt would fit this description. Or whatever this girl speaking (assumed a girl from the speech patterns) would think is "feminine", even pink color-colored t-shirts.

So right now, you'd have me believe that a bunch of new accounts are now accusing others of transphobia, while using traditional gender dichotomy stereotypes about clothing to effectively try and pressure a translation team into misgendering a male child, and erase a rare positive portrayal of crossdressing, which they present as the only correct moral choice. And they say this with a straight face.
Fully knowing that the proposed edit will not only be more offensive to transwomen (equating them to crossdressers) but to crossdressers as well. And I'm sure they'll be coming back for seconds and acting offended again at a situation of their own making.
And why not, a Round 3, where they say this character being in "Soy City" is totally intended as an insult against either community.

What's the big idea? It's not like we have an overabundance of GBA translators we need to cull.

And despite the availability of the modding tools, no one stepped to make their own version? Perhaps because it's easier to throw unfounded accusations then to actually TRY rewriting it and do "the right thing" and submit it and take responsibility for it. How would THEY love to be on the receiving end of this kind of ill-faith criticism?
While I feel sorry for people strung along this lie, I can't be sorry that much because you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet in the first place without researching at first what you're getting angry about, and refraining from making assumptions, lest you're used as unwitting pawns for a harassment campaign in progress.
Shame on the individual who started this, who knew exactly what they were doing.

Baiting translators to insert offensive content to draw out the fake controversy even further? I've seen it all. Is this how you pay back translators doing this on their free time?

Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: sharksnack on August 24, 2021, 11:08:56 pm
I meant the "did you know?" isn't explicitly printed on the screen. I'm fluent in Japanese as well, and I basically just shared how I'd personally translate it while keeping the tone in mind.

But if you're going to nitpick, I'm not sure where you got "you're looking for" with うけつけ. It's in hiragana and I haven't played the game at all, but I'd assume it's 受付, so it'd be along the lines of receptionist.

And "dressed like a girl" works fine for 女の子みたいな恰好. They have the appearance of a girl -> They're wearing clothes that make them look like a girl -> They're dressed like a girl. (That's not to say this is the only correct translation by any means, just one option)

My post wasn't intended as a reply to your literal translation, but just wanted to share how I'd interpret the original dialogue for more perspective.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: ifightdragons on August 25, 2021, 04:16:33 am
VicVergil: Calm down, it's an old Japanese game. Stop chastising people who simply disagree with you. You're acting like a jerk.

[Unknown]: You don't have to succumb to pressure from any of these aggressive social justice warriors by inserting modern day identity politics, effectively alienating a portion of the potential audience. Using personal pronouns in this game like "they/them" for a singular person, makes absolutely no sense. Most Japanese games wouldn't use it today, and it wouldn't even be a thought back then. Same goes for the suggestion by PowerPanda right below. It's all identity politics and semantic play.

That being said, you do what you want to do. Don't let VicVergil on a war path, or me, persuade you.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: PowerPanda on August 25, 2021, 12:41:20 pm
Could you, instead of using the word "dress" use the word "cosplay"? There are plenty of cisgendered males who cosplay as girls.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: TomatoAdventure_Fan on September 17, 2021, 01:37:21 pm
I'm so glad that this one finally got translated. I have been lurking around this forum for a long time now, eagerly following the progress of the translation. Thank you to everyone who worked on this project, I have been having a great time with it so far.

I am looking to 100% the game. So far, I have made it up to
Spoiler:
Gimmick Palace
. Before I finish off the main story I wanted to
Spoiler:
complete all of the side quests
.

I have already
Spoiler:
mastered all of the Gimmicks
and have moved onto
Spoiler:
obtaining all the Gimica cards
. I successfully
Spoiler:
became a Gimica Master and beat Big Bertha at the Lardoseum
. When I did, she told me that
Spoiler:
"there was someone else that would eventually be stronger than me"
. I looked it up and it seems like I need to
Spoiler:
go beat the receptionist at Sofubi's Gym
. However, whenever I talk to him,
Spoiler:
he never mentions anything about Gimica
.

Does anyone know what to do now? Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 17, 2021, 09:00:09 pm
Right, the original Japanese didn't clarify this so I didn't change it.  I'll explain below and note a few other things if you're after 100%.

Spoiler:
You need to beat the game first, then load clear data, then you can fight a few more people in Gimica.  You're right about the next person.

Also:
 * Have you found the two other faces for Jean Ludwig in the Sunken Ship?
 * Have you listened to all the songs on the fixed TV?
 * Do you know what happens if you rescue Poochy while you have 99 binkies?
 * Have you obtained Lightspeed rank in SneaKar?
 * Have you gone back to Mo and completed his special course?
 * Have you gotten max score on Scream Surfing?
 * Have you found all the hidden items in the Oystown sewers?
 * Did you make the pot maniac in Mayonen the happiest pot maniac in the world (requires doing some inside Gimmick Palace first)?
 * Did you get all the items, both upwards and downwards, for climbing the ropes without getting hit by eyeballs?

Also, for those watching this topic - I released an updated version of the patch, including the dialog box speed change, yesterday.  There's also a few minor corrections.  Saves are of course fully compatible.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on September 18, 2021, 10:16:16 am
Unknown-san, what did you decide regarding the heated debate about a female/tomboy or male/trans (all good)?
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: TomatoAdventure_Fan on September 18, 2021, 11:18:45 am
Sounds like there's a lot more things for me to do.

I have already heard about some of these but some are completely new to me.

Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I already rescued Poochy and I didn't have 99 binkies. I'm guessing I would need to start over to see that.

Is there any sort of reward for doing literally everything in the game?
Spoiler:
Or is the reward getting to see rare stuff through the side quests?

Thank you for your help
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 18, 2021, 11:44:45 am
The v1.1.0 release contains a change to that text.  Based on the feedback here, I kept it more literal than the earlier proposed change.  Again, thanks everyone for the passionate feedback.  I read and considered it all in making the change.

But not really looking to have a large discussion for each and every individual NPC line of dialog here.  If you'd like to see the update, I'd encourage you to play the game with the latest version of the patch.

That said, if anyone sees a line of text with a typo, glitch, or where the meaning for a 2021 English speaker significantly departs from what a 2002 Japanese speaker would've understood, please do report it.

-[Unknown]
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: Mattiac on September 18, 2021, 04:16:16 pm
Unknown-san, that sounds good! Thanks again!
Title: Re: Tomato Adventure (GBA) translation/tools
Post by: [Unknown] on September 18, 2021, 06:21:13 pm
Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I already rescued Poochy and I didn't have 99 binkies. I'm guessing I would need to start over to see that.

Well, it's a very small thing.  Actually, I'd say it's just nice they thought of the scenario.
Spoiler:
Similar different dialog is seen for Lewy in Soy City, the Hawker Kids, or the Quiz Kid if you're at 99 binkies during certain interactions.  It's not substantially different, but if you really want to see every dialog (as I did) there's a lot of scenarios.

I also forgot, there's text in a lot of cases when you're too poor for things (like paying for the hint from Rellek in the ocean.)  But these are all fairly boring.

Is there any sort of reward for doing literally everything in the game?
Spoiler:
Or is the reward getting to see rare stuff through the side quests?

Just the items you get, generally.  Finishing Gimica nets you a bit of dialog.  You do get a little something for using and mastering all the Gimmicks at the end.
Spoiler:
Also - as far as I know, being able to fight the next players is the only reward for clear data.

-[Unknown]