Romhacking.net

Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 05:51:06 pm

Title: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 05:51:06 pm
FF4 Machine translation using DeepL

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl6.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl7.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl8.png)

I previously machine-translated FF4 using Google translate (and even wrote a book about the experience). A supposedly more sophisticated machine translation engine named DeepL recently added Japanese support, so I gave it a shot. The result is still pretty bad, but it's not as wacky as the previous Google one. I started making a patch for this DeepL translation but ran out of time/energy about 80% in. The game should be beatable, just the main menus will look barfy.

This patch also includes some small improvement hacks that I had previously created for the FF2c project below.

Download: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/funky%20fantasy%20iv%20deepl%202020%20machine%20translation%20patch%20v1.ips (needs FF4 (J) v1.1 unheadered ROM)



FF2c Translation

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b6.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b7.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/b8.png)

Some years back, a Japanese fan did a small remake of FF2 using the FF4 engine. Most of the original assets are still the same as FF4 too - all the town layouts, music, enemy sprites, etc. It's a pretty cool patch though, so I've been slowly translating it + hacking stuff just as a side hobby. Anyway, I just thought I'd share some pics of it here for now. I'm pulling a lot of the translated text from FF2 GBA's English translation, but there's still a lot I need to translate from scratch too.

The Japanese site is long gone but I've uploaded a copy of the final Japanese patch here: http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/FFC2_v1.01.zip

UPDATE: The patch is out now! http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on April 21, 2020, 06:32:01 pm
Oo!! That FF2c hack sounds really intriguing.
That's the kind of thing I'd love to do for FF1 and FF3 using FF5 as a base.
But if I could rig a class system in FF4, that could be pretty swank too.
Anyway, I look forward to trying out your translation of it!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ArkthePieKing on April 21, 2020, 06:59:05 pm
Oh that's so nifty! Does it use a traditional leveling system or FF2's proto-SaGa style leveling?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on April 21, 2020, 08:40:36 pm
It uses the same battle system, experience system, etc. as FF4. The original hack uses very little (if any) assembly reprogramming, it's more like the sort of game you could make if you used the usual FF4 hacking tools.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on April 21, 2020, 09:15:04 pm
Sounds great to me!
I always found it to be an odd game.
Of course, knowing that much of it was designed by the creator of Mana series puts it into perspective.
On the other hand that just makes me want to see what a more traditional version of the game would have been like.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on April 27, 2020, 08:37:39 pm
This is a really cool topic and idea Mato. I really enjoyed your playthrough of Funky Fantasy IV and treasured the book just as much. Perhaps these sorts of machine learning programs can make untranslated games a bit more understandable in various ways.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 30, 2020, 02:39:32 am
I find these projects are REALLY interesting. I know you said in your notes that your custom tools are still being worked on. Any chance they could be used to let's say port an existing script into it?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on April 30, 2020, 05:36:27 pm
I tweeted to you about that FF2c hack a year or two ago, and it's super cool to see you've been messing around with it on the side! It's definitely no T-edition kind of hack, but I love the idea of recreating one game in another game engine so it was a treat to discover it :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 01, 2020, 05:00:01 pm
I know you said in your notes that your custom tools are still being worked on. Any chance they could be used to let's say port an existing script into it?

Yeah, although for that purpose they're probably not particularly any better than Atlas, etc. stuff. I think the only thing my toolset has is some ASM that allows the three banks of text to be expanded + relocated. Everything else is standard stuff.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on May 01, 2020, 05:08:20 pm
Just want to quickly drop in and say that I've never seen this before and this is amazing stuff! :)

The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

I look forward to checking these out and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:

Cheers!  :beer:

8-bit fan
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 01, 2020, 05:51:01 pm
Yeah, although for that purpose they're probably not particularly any better than Atlas, etc. stuff. I think the only thing my toolset has is some ASM that allows the three banks of text to be expanded + relocated. Everything else is standard stuff.

That would actually perfect if it works properly enough. I ask because I would love to find an easier way to port Namingway Edition to a Japanese ROM but expanding the text in places sounds fantastic.

Just want to quickly drop in and say that I've never seen this before and this is amazing stuff! :)

The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

I look forward to checking these out and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:

Cheers!  :beer:

8-bit fan

I want to try out FF2C as well. I have a soft spot for that game despite it getting a lot of flak for its leveling system.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: 8.bit.fan on May 01, 2020, 07:29:21 pm
I want to try out FF2C as well. I have a soft spot for that game despite it getting a lot of flak for its leveling system.
Same here. I've always 'liked' FF2 despite all that. So it's great to see a recreation using another FF game's engine! :)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 04, 2020, 01:03:50 am
The FF2c Translation looks very interesting as well! How much of FF2 has been recreated in this?

As far as I can tell, it's got the entire story, script, and world map from FF2.

Town layouts, dungeons, etc. are all still from FF4. Music, enemy graphics, etc. are all the same as FF4 too.

There's extra content too, like you can fight Cecil as a secret boss, for example.

The FF2 game with FF4's battle system really clicked with me when I tried it out, which made me want to share it in English.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Bregalad on May 04, 2020, 04:33:21 am
It's funny the DeepL translation is so bad, because DeepL is actually very good at doing translations between French and English, it's nothing like the old machine language translation who sucked, it's almost perfect; the only exception being ambiguous words or grammar who can't be guessed from the context.

So I suppose jap->en translation is more difficult to do than en<->fr for a computer.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: aqualung on May 04, 2020, 05:04:39 am
It's funny the DeepL translation is so bad, because DeepL is actually very good at doing translations between French and English, it's nothing like the old machine language translation who sucked, it's almost perfect; the only exception being ambiguous words or grammar who can't be guessed from the context.

So I suppose jap->en translation is more difficult to do than en<->fr for a computer.

DeepL is actually fairly accurate with Japanese as well, provided the text is rich in kanji. An example (which may not be the best one, but some of the testings I've made have made my jaw drop at how accurate they looked): https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E9%96%A2%E9%80%A3%E3%81%AE%E5%A0%B1%E9%81%93%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E6%95%B0%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E3%81%AE%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%8C%E3%83%A1%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%81%AB%E7%99%BB%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%80%81%E8%87%AA%E8%BA%AB%E3%81%AE%E7%9F%A5%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%92%E8%BF%B0%E3%81%B9%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82%E3%81%97%E3%81%8B%E3%81%97%E3%80%81%E6%9C%80%E5%89%8D%E7%B7%9A%E3%81%A7%E6%84%9F%E6%9F%93%E8%80%85%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A1%E3%81%A8%E6%8E%A5%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%AE%E8%A9%B1%E3%82%92%E3%81%98%E3%81%A3%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8A%E3%81%A8%E8%81%9E%E3%81%8F%E6%A9%9F%E4%BC%9A%E3%81%AF%E6%84%8F%E5%A4%96%E3%81%A8%E5%B0%91%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E3%80%82%E5%AE%9F%E9%9A%9B%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E3%81%9D%E3%81%AE%E6%82%A3%E8%80%85%E3%82%92%E8%A8%BA%E3%81%9F%E3%81%93%E3%81%A8%E3%81%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E3%80%8C%E5%B0%82%E9%96%80%E5%AE%B6%E3%80%8D%EF%BC%88%E4%B8%AD%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E8%80%85%E3%82%82%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%EF%BC%89%E3%81%AE%E3%82%AA%E3%83%94%E3%83%8B%E3%82%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AE%E3%81%BB%E3%81%86%E3%81%8C%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E6%B5%81%E5%B8%83%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82%E7%8F%BE%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%AE%E5%A3%B0%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E7%B4%B9%E4%BB%8B%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E5%A4%9A%E3%81%8F%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E6%B2%BB%E7%99%82%E7%8F%BE%E5%A0%B4%E3%81%AE%E8%8B%A6%E5%A2%83%E3%81%A8%E3%81%84%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A8%E3%81%93%E3%82%8D%E3%81%AB%E9%99%90%E5%AE%9A%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%82%8B%E3%82%88%E3%81%86%E3%81%AB%E3%82%82%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B%E3%80%82

If FFIV's translation is so weird, it's mostly because of the lack of kanji to provide context and eliminate ambiguity.

PD: here's another one. These are all things that pop up on my twitter from time to time:

https://www.deepl.com/translator#ja/en/%E6%9C%80%E8%BF%91%E3%80%81%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E6%B2%B3%E5%8D%97%E7%9C%81%E9%84%AD%E5%B7%9E%E3%81%AE%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E3%81%AB%E5%A5%B3%E6%80%A7%EF%BC%92%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%8C%E3%82%81%E3%81%BE%E3%81%84%E3%82%84%E8%84%B1%E5%8A%9B%E6%84%9F%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A9%E3%82%92%E8%A8%B4%E3%81%88%E5%85%A5%E9%99%A2%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E3%81%B8%E3%81%AE%E8%AD%A6%E6%88%92%E3%81%8C%E7%B6%9A%E3%81%8F%E4%B8%AD%E3%80%81%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E3%81%AFCT%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%81%AB%E3%82%88%E3%82%8B%E6%A4%9C%E6%9F%BB%E3%82%92%E8%A1%8C%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A8%E3%81%93%E3%82%8D%E3%80%81%E6%82%A3%E8%80%85%E3%81%AE%E8%82%BA%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%99%E3%82%8A%E3%82%AC%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9%E7%8A%B6%E3%81%AE%E7%99%BD%E3%81%84%E5%BD%B1%E3%81%8C%E8%A6%8B%E3%81%A4%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82%E3%81%9D%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AF%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95%E3%81%AB%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E8%82%BA%E7%82%8E%E3%81%AE%E7%89%B9%E5%BE%B4%E3%81%A8%E4%B8%80%E8%87%B4%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%82%82%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A0%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%822%E4%BA%BA%E3%81%AF%E7%99%BA%E7%86%B1%E3%82%84%E3%80%81%E3%81%9B%E3%81%8D%E3%80%81%E5%91%BC%E5%90%B8%E5%9B%B0%E9%9B%A3%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A9%E3%81%AE%E7%97%87%E7%8A%B6%E3%81%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%81%9F%E3%82%81%E3%80%81%E8%A8%BA%E5%AF%9F%E3%82%92%E5%8F%97%E3%81%91%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%AF%E7%99%BA%E7%86%B1%E5%A4%96%E6%9D%A5%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F%E3%80%81%E4%B8%80%E8%88%AC%E3%81%AE%E5%A4%96%E6%9D%A5%E3%80%82%E5%8C%BB%E5%B8%AB%E3%82%89%E3%81%AF%E9%A9%9A%E3%81%8D%E3%80%81%E7%97%85%E9%99%A2%E5%86%85%E3%81%AB%E7%B7%8A%E5%BC%B5%E3%81%8C%E8%B5%B0%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 15, 2020, 07:36:42 pm
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal1.png)

I want to add an 8x8 crystal icon to this hack, but I'm terrible at art, as seen here. Can anyone come up with a better 8x8 crystal icon? The only colors available are white, gray, and black.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on May 15, 2020, 11:57:28 pm
Oh my gosh, I needed a good laugh.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl1.png)

Of course, DeepL! Who could forget the intrepid crewman of the Red Wings, He!

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl2.png)

Anarchy in the UK, huh? Rough, innit

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl3.png)

Certainly, not the dogs and cats you originally thought had done it. Intrigue!

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl5.png)

Sometimes, in life, you gotta just say what the hell, and unlock the wind farm cave.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl6.png)

What is it with DeepL translating Japanese into what sounds like English Punk Rock Lyrics?

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl7.png)

... No, I can get with DeepL here. It's probably what I said when I first saw it.

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/deepl8.png)

Hey, we've been looking for that! Must've been those anarchists in the UK that took it...

The port of FF2's story into FF4's world looks quite interesting too. If some additional work can be done to it, that sounds like a corking good time.

I'm gonna go ahead and be that guy, by saying that I don't think anyone is gonna miss Kawazu's leveling system, all that much, though...  ::)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Polinym on May 16, 2020, 12:19:20 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal1.png)

I want to add an 8x8 crystal icon to this hack, but I'm terrible at art, as seen here. Can anyone come up with a better 8x8 crystal icon? The only colors available are white, gray, and black.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i5MDP6RHkNk/Xr9pVhWj_VI/AAAAAAAAAIc/W0tOzCu0pc0ovBLHvR11vUdWUagnSA_swCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/crystal.png)


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvL0a4j9R_8/Xr9pVnCgJSI/AAAAAAAAAIY/BgcllObYaxMwqyA8iaUTmxME0BnFl0NPACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/crystal_large.png)

How's this?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 16, 2020, 01:22:30 am
Wow, that's amazing! I didn't think it would even be possible, you're a wizard  :beer:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/crystal2.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 29, 2020, 07:39:05 pm
I just noticed that when you start out the game (this hack, not vanilla FF4) everyone has "0x" listed as part of their defense stat:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/stats.png)

Does this mean that armor has no helpful effect until it eventually reaches 1x? And how does that number increase anyway?

I checked the original FF4 and you start out with 1x there.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on May 30, 2020, 09:12:10 pm
FFIV is obtuse at times and this is one of them.

Before I started modding FFIV I always thought the 0x5 and all of that actually meant that the defense stat itself was being multiplied, but it means something Completely different, compared to how Attack Multipliers are calculated.

0x means the amount of times that your evasion will be taken into account to evade an attack. It's been a while so this might be wrong, Every 8 Agility will increase your Defense multiplier by 1 from there. This is how they balanced it so Edge would be an evasive fellow, while making sure the tanks (Cecil/Kain) have some actual ability to shrug off *some* damage. This is why Agility is king in FFIV, it increases your Attack/Defense/Speed/Evasion, all from one stat. You will notice in FFIV even Tellah starts with 8 Agility, hence he has one multiplier. However Rydia and Porom do not have enough Agility to reach even 1 defense multiplier and it looks the same with Firion there (great transfer of his portrait by the way, to the hack creator!)

For Magic Defense Multiplier is less straight forward. Tellah starts with x1, which implies that you need 16/Wisdom&Will to have a Magic Defense Multiplier, but its not so simple. it has to be 32 of either or both stats. So say if you have 16 Wisdom+Will you will have x1. If you have 48 Wisdom and 32 Will, you will have x2, because you haven't reached the new threshold of 96 to reach x3 Magic Evasion multipliers.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ManaRedux on May 31, 2020, 05:37:00 am
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font. 
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on May 31, 2020, 05:44:52 am
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font.

I think that's because replacing a font is one of the simplest tasks of any that this particular hobby entails. Next step up is editing the pallette.

There was a time (it might still be true honestly) when pallette-only and font-only mods were not actually allowed on this site, for that reason, I think?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on May 31, 2020, 02:02:37 pm
Mato, the FF2c hack really intrigues me. When I finish my FF6 project, I'd be willing to put in some work on this. Would you want someone to come along and work on the town/dungeon maps?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 31, 2020, 03:34:23 pm
I was always a fan of the original font.  It seems that whenever a script is hacked, the first thing to happen is a new font.

Yeah, I did it purposely here, I wanted it to have a different feel from FF4 and for screenshots of it to stand out from screenshots of FF4. Otherwise the hack would've used the original Japanese version's English font, which would still be considered a "new font" in most players' eyes outside of Japan.

Mato, the FF2c hack really intrigues me. When I finish my FF6 project, I'd be willing to put in some work on this. Would you want someone to come along and work on the town/dungeon maps?

My plan is to release my translation, fix any tiny bugs afterwards, and then let others modify it further on their own if they want. I kind of like the creative weirdness that comes from all the re-used caves, towns, etc. but I can see how recreating all the original FF2 ones would be really fun too. I also feel the game could REALLY use the original NES enemy FF2 graphics touched up to look like they fit with FF4. Someone tried to do it but with GBA sprites, and it feels out of place to me:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy000.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy002.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy004.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2remake-j-tsushiy005.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on May 31, 2020, 07:20:03 pm
I don't know... I think those GBA sprites look pretty great!

Also this fellow/lady chose Leonora (the best new character from FFIV:TAY) as a holdover party member, so they earn points from me for that alone.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on May 31, 2020, 09:46:58 pm
I mean, if you have a 5th character, wouldn't it just make sense for Leila to stick with you? Or maybe someone could upgrade Paul to be finally playable.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on May 31, 2020, 09:48:10 pm
I don't know... I think those GBA sprites look pretty great!
Yeah, it's pretty hit or miss, I think the GBA sprites without outlines and/or gradient shading are kinda weird, but that's just me. I'm hoping other hackers will take this initial FF2 remake even further/in diff directions though  :thumbsup:

Also, thanks for the stats explanation, that's some complicated stuff I never realized even after playing it a ton back in the day.


I mean, if you have a 5th character, wouldn't it just make sense for Leila to stick with you? Or maybe someone could upgrade Paul to be finally playable.  :laugh:

Actually, you can freely switch the 5th party member between Leila, Leonora, Minwu, and Gordon (maybe another?) near the end of the game.

June 01, 2020, 05:53:25 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm doing menu stuff right now and I noticed a string in the Japanese version that I'm not sure I've seen used before. In the English FF2 ROM it's translated here as "FAILED". There's also a string in there that says "Recover HP" that I'm not sure I've seen:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/failed.PNG)

Does anyone know what these are, when they occur, etc.? They're right there among strings that get used when you use items/magic on people outside of battle, but I don't know how to trigger them.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: KillerBob on June 01, 2020, 07:55:50 pm
Does anyone know what these are, when they occur, etc.? They're right there among strings that get used when you use items/magic on people outside of battle, but I don't know how to trigger them.
Noticed these myself when doing stuff for "the cutting room floor" page. That particular HPを かいふくします/"Recover HP." message is definitely unused. And I'm pretty sure that うまくいかないようです/"Failed......" string is also one of those unused item menu strings. もちものがいっぱいですけ/"Items full." is another one, I think. If I recall correctly, the final game has an audio cue instead.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ManaRedux on June 02, 2020, 06:26:53 pm
I think that's because replacing a font is one of the simplest tasks of any that this particular hobby entails. Next step up is editing the pallette.

There was a time (it might still be true honestly) when pallette-only and font-only mods were not actually allowed on this site, for that reason, I think?

Do you feel that using original fonts comes off as "amateurish"?  For Secret of Mana, I like the using the idea of the original font for nostalgia, and it seems to get the job done well enough. 

My plan is to release my translation, fix any tiny bugs afterwards, and then let others modify it further on their own if they want. I kind of like the creative weirdness that comes from all the re-used caves, towns, etc. but I can see how recreating all the original FF2 ones would be really fun too. I also feel the game could REALLY use the original NES enemy FF2 graphics touched up to look like they fit with FF4.

I will second that I am greatly looking forward to this too!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Spooniest on June 02, 2020, 11:47:14 pm
Do you feel that using original fonts comes off as "amateurish"?  For Secret of Mana, I like the using the idea of the original font for nostalgia, and it seems to get the job done well enough.

Quite the opposite. Even if the font the original game had wasn't the greatest, it's better to have something familiar that worked the first time (mostly anyway) than to experiment with weird stuff needlessly. One of those 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kind of things.

And yeah I learned this lesson the hard way, myself, on my very first submission to the site. ;) Not telling, though.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 03, 2020, 02:31:23 am
I want to add a single sign to a room/map (the tower of wish/prayer room in standard ff4) but am having a very hard time finding any documentation on the relevant data. I could swear I saw something about NPC text placement/assignment in one of the zillion docs several years ago but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone know where I can learn more about this stuff?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 03, 2020, 09:51:11 am
Hmm, that should be well within the power of FF4ks...(remembers it's Japanese version.) Nevermind.

There is another editor which might help, maybe... Everything's editor.

https://everything8215.github.io/ff6tools/ff6tools.html

Despite the name, it actually has a lot of FF support and there is one for the FFIV Japanese version, it should have most of the bells and whistles of FF4kster. I think.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 03, 2020, 02:31:16 pm
Yeah, I had actually tried to use ff4kster to modify an English ROM so I could pinpoint which bytes were being changed when I made a simple NPC-related change... but then a file comparison showed it changed like 5000 bytes :o

I'm more interested in the underlying data so I don't need to rely on tools, so I also consulted the source code for ff4kster, but it's not well documented and for some reason the relevant addresses it references didn't get hit by any reads, even after converting between address formats.

The Javascript code in the FF6Tools page looks promising though, thanks!

June 03, 2020, 06:56:43 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm playing around with FF6Tools now and it actually loads the Japanese FF2 remake without any trouble at all. I'm still unsure of what to do though - I can't seem to find any way to move NPCs, add new/move existing entries, or anything else using this editor.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 04, 2020, 12:35:22 am
Ah, did you click on Triggers? If you go to Triggers, then the map editing function becomes a targeting function. You can click on an NPC, see which event is attached to them and edit the text all from there. It's really convenient!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 04, 2020, 05:20:55 am
Ooh, thanks, that helped a ton!

I got my new thing hooked up and working, except I ran into two problems:


Things are progressing nicely otherwise. Another thing I want to add is an intro screen explaining what the original Japanese hack is + tries to do, but that's another technical hurdle for another time.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on June 04, 2020, 09:19:38 pm
Late to the party, but...
I think the GBA enemy graphics are a good base, but they do need some finagling to match the style of the rest of the game batter.
Conversely, maybe it would be worth it to port over some of the GBA graphics for the rest of the game?

Still love the whole Idea of this hack. I gush for it! :GUSH: :GUSH: :GUSH:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on June 06, 2020, 06:20:20 pm
Say, has anyone ever made an "overworld music doesn't start over from the beginning after a battle" hack? I'm doing some testing now and it's something I really wish the game had, especially when the song is so long and good.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on June 06, 2020, 09:16:20 pm
I don't think that trend started until FFVI, I have never heard of a hack for that, but in theory it should be as simple as making the game remember the point in the sequence it was when a battle began. Unfortunately music programming is gobbledygook to me. However Chillyfeez may know a thing about it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 02, 2020, 05:54:05 pm
I'm getting really close to finishing this finally. I need some help again though - this time I want an 8x8 treasure chest icon, but I'm not happy with the one I quickly made:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/chest.png)

(The colors in the image above are the only ones available)

Can anyone help? I can hack bits but I can't draw at all  :crazy:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ArkthePieKing on July 02, 2020, 09:32:06 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/KVNZm5E.png)

How about something like that? Colors are a little wrong but I think you get the idea lol
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 03, 2020, 05:44:37 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/LsSX16i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1cy9l2v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9hti6jb.png)

I tried one too.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 04, 2020, 05:21:18 pm
Here's my take.

(https://i.imgur.com/4Obs7D3.png)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 04, 2020, 08:38:15 pm
Thanks guys, I'll try the icons out soon and see which one works the best.

For now, I rearranged all of my new code + data to be compatible with the alternate enemy patch that changes enemy graphics & names. Now I can easily build a translation for the original Japanese patch and the alternate Japanese patch. Here are some screenshots of the alternate enemies in battle:

(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f1.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f2.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f3.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f4.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f5.png) (http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/f6.png)

When I finally finish this project and release it, I'll probably release two patches and let players choose whichever they want to play.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 04, 2020, 11:37:27 pm
Damn. Nice work there, Mato.
I'm chompin' at the bit to play this one.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 05, 2020, 06:20:04 pm
I always wanted to play FF2 with a more traditional system behind it. This is coming along impressively well.
Will it contain the PSP extras where you fight the reincarnated Emperor? I could be misremembering, but I think they added a few things.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 05, 2020, 06:41:32 pm
I'm not very familiar with the original FF2 and don't know much about the PSP version at all, but in this hack you do fight the emperor at least 3 times, and 1 emperor-themed boss guarding a bunch of chests.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 06, 2020, 01:12:07 am
In the PSP and GBA versions there is an after game scenario after you defeat the emperor in the underworld or whatever. Then you play as all the characters that died fighting the empire against a "holy" version of the emperor. It's basically a bonus dungeon called "Soul of Rebirth".
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 06, 2020, 01:52:56 am
Yeah that's what I mean. Would be cool to have that, too.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 06, 2020, 05:24:09 pm
While testing out the alternate enemy patch I've noticed a couple enemies load the wrong tile graphics while the tile layouts are fine. It seems to be a problem with the Japanese enemy patch and not my stuff, so I gotta figure out how to fix them. Unfortunately, existing tools don't seem to work given the nature of the enemy patch.

Also, while testing the alternate enemy patch, I ran into a weird problem where the airship doesn't fly over lava. I'm assuming an event flag got messed up somewhere - does anyone have more info? If I can set that flag manually that'd fix the problem hopefully.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 06, 2020, 11:04:35 pm
The event flag is set in FF4 in the Dwarven Castle when Cid coats the underside of the airship with Mithril. Prior to that, the airship can't fly over lava. I'd bet that event flag just wasn't set.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 07, 2020, 03:09:30 pm
I managed to find and fix the lava thing - it was a problem with the original Japanese patch. The Japanese patch actually has a bunch of little issues here and there, and I try to fix them when I can but I don't intend to fix them all (mostly because I don't know how).

Anyway, now to figure out these monster graphic problems

July 09, 2020, 01:37:39 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm now fixing up some problems with battle groups that exist in the Japanese graphics enhancement patch - lots of enemies overlapping, appearing too far down or too far high, stuff like that. I've noticed that when I change the formation ID that a battle group uses, it can sometimes get tricky to select a specific enemy with the cursor.

It's hard to explain but I assume this is something that other FF4 hackers have encountered before. Is there a way to change the "enemy selecting method" to match any given formation? I guess if I can't figure it out, I'll just change the formations and leave a note in the readme that says "the enhanced graphics version will make it hard to select specific enemies sometimes".

July 09, 2020, 07:38:59 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I couldn't find this cursor stuff documented anywhere, but I saw it was an option on FF6Tools, so after some work I figured it out and managed to fix the cursor weirdness in the original Japanese gfx patch, hooray!

Now I need to figure out how to fix the gfx enhancement issues when summoning the two new summons. After that, I think my work with the gfx enhancement stuff will finally be over and I can get back to finalizing stuff in the main translation patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 13, 2020, 01:56:47 am
Hmm, two new summons you say? Does that mean something was replaced? If it's size or graphic issues with these summons, Chillyfeez should know all about that. If he is unavailable to help you though he wrote an excellent piece on slickproductions about it.

http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.0

Hopefully this will help a bit. (It is so nice to have this archive of excellent information back!)
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 14, 2020, 11:53:09 am
I’m sure I’m missing A LOT here, so I apologize in advance if I’m totally off, but wouldn’t it make more sense to use FFV (or even VI) as the base since the graphics are a bit better and they use four characters in battles instead of five? I know this is just a translation of a hack that was already done, so maybe the reason is that simple.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 14, 2020, 01:30:52 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: ManaRedux on July 14, 2020, 01:39:24 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

I definitely would be on board for an FF1 remake in a FF6 engine!  I can even think of ways to tackle things like canoe travel (make it similar to the Lete River) and cave design. 
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 14, 2020, 02:21:30 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

Yep, I have a feeling you’re right. Sometimes it’s all about what you enjoy and what motivates you. I’ve always wished there had been a FFI-III SNES collection, kind of like what they did with the Dragon Quest series. It would be cool for fans to make that happen all these years later.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: PowerPanda on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 pm
I think FFI in the FFV engine makes a lot of sense, since V is set up well for the job system. You could always look into William Kage's SixEngine too. I've thought that it looked a lot easier to use than doing a romhack.

For this project, FFII in FFIV's engine makes a lot of sense. FFII was the black sheep of the series, but the characters map almost perfectly to the abilities from FFIV.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 15, 2020, 04:35:59 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2c-trigger.png)

When you step on this tile, it pops up a question box. The problem is that you can accidentally avoid it and never trigger it at all. I'd like to move the trigger tile down one to avoid this, but I'm having trouble. I know how to modify the trigger data itself, but it appears there's some other piece of data that tells the game "hey this is a trigger you just stepped on, look through the triggers list!".

It's hard to find clear documentation all in one place, so I'm hoping someone will know how this works. I'm fairly certain it'd just be a one byte change... hopefully?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 15, 2020, 04:54:39 am
I think FFI in the FFV engine makes a lot of sense, since V is set up well for the job system.

I have had that thought many times before.
It would probably be the best fit.
There are way more location maps than would be needed so implementing the extra dungeons would be a snap, too.
Plus having all those world maps and underwater maps fit perfectly with my thoughts on how the original should be expanded with more content.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 15, 2020, 07:27:46 am
(http://tomato.fobby.net/junk/ff2c-trigger.png)

When you step on this tile, it pops up a question box. The problem is that you can accidentally avoid it and never trigger it at all. I'd like to move the trigger tile down one to avoid this, but I'm having trouble. I know how to modify the trigger data itself, but it appears there's some other piece of data that tells the game "hey this is a trigger you just stepped on, look through the triggers list!".

It's hard to find clear documentation all in one place, so I'm hoping someone will know how this works. I'm fairly certain it'd just be a one byte change... hopefully?

You are correct Mato. There is a property in the tile itself which checks whether it is triggerable or not. This too can be easily modified with FF4kster in the "edit Tilesets" section.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 15, 2020, 03:07:18 pm
Thanks, after digging around in bits and bytes I realized it was too much hassle to deal with so I just put an empty treasure chest in that one spot to avoid any possibility of accidentally avoiding the spot. A much simpler and safer solution  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: KingMike on July 15, 2020, 04:16:43 pm
In the PSP and GBA versions there is an after game scenario after you defeat the emperor in the underworld or whatever. Then you play as all the characters that died fighting the empire against a "holy" version of the emperor. It's basically a bonus dungeon called "Soul of Rebirth".

I hadn't played the bonus content in either GBA game.
I just remember when FF1+2A was first announced and people were like "WTF is Phantom Train doing in this game? That announcement has to be an April Fools joke!" I'm guessing that was FF1's bonus dungeons which I don't think were meant to have logical connection to the game (I mean, the first one used FF3's intro dungeon for a couple of its maps, kind of a troll move at that point :D )
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 15, 2020, 08:58:52 pm
I hadn't played the bonus content in either GBA game.
I just remember when FF1+2A was first announced and people were like "WTF is Phantom Train doing in this game? That announcement has to be an April Fools joke!" I'm guessing that was FF1's bonus dungeons which I don't think were meant to have logical connection to the game (I mean, the first one used FF3's intro dungeon for a couple of its maps, kind of a troll move at that point :D )

You know, it always bothered me that FF3 (as in the NES game) never got the GBA treatment. I don't really like the 3D remakes (unless you are talking about FF6, which was at one point in the past FF3 on western territories?).
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Dark Phoenix on July 15, 2020, 10:23:41 pm
There's a lot of stuff in the hack that made me think "whoa, that's clever how they used this thing from FFIV in this new way" so maybe that's why. Or maybe the person just really liked FFIV and/or hacking it. I think it'd be fun to re-create FF1 with the FF5 or FF6 engine, just as a small little hobby project, and I get the feeling the FF2 remake guy had a similar motivation.

I remember seeing a guy who was trying to do FF4 in FF6 using the FF6 hacker tools as well...
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 16, 2020, 09:01:09 am
You know, it always bothered me that FF3 (as in the NES game) never got the GBA treatment. I don't really like the 3D remakes (unless you are talking about FF6, which was at one point in the past FF3 on western territories?).

That has always bugged me too. The first 6 games have been remade multiple times in their original sprite-based 2D forms, and yet the only English localized versions of FF3 are the 3D remakes. The only good option we have is the Chaos Rush translation patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rudy on July 16, 2020, 09:01:46 am
I remember seeing a guy who was trying to do FF4 in FF6 using the FF6 hacker tools as well...

I wonder how that went. I always thought it would be cool (and maybe easier now that we have larger sprites from the remakes). But the deal breaker I always thought would be the battle system having 4 characters, might be a huge pain to add a fifth
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 16, 2020, 10:32:12 am
That has always bugged me too. The first 6 games have been remade multiple times in their original sprite-based 2D forms, and yet the only English localized versions of FF3 are the 3D remakes. The only good option we have is the Chaos Rush translation patch.

You can add me to that tally.
It's disappointing that it's the only left out.
As much as I love Chaos Rush's translation patch, I yearn for a 16-bit remake to go along with it.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 16, 2020, 01:10:22 pm
You can add me to that tally.
It's disappointing that it's the only left out.
As much as I love Chaos Rush's translation patch, I yearn for a 16-bit remake to go along with it.

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve also never been a fan of the 3D remake’s art style. The characters look like dolls to me. Hard to take the story seriously.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: odditude on July 16, 2020, 09:34:54 pm
how about this? sorry for the lack of image, but ' '=bg, X=white, .=gray

Code: [Select]
  WWWWW
 W....WW
W....W.W
W....WWW
WWWWWW.W
W.WW.W.W
W....WW
WWWWWW
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 17, 2020, 04:17:54 am
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve also never been a fan of the 3D remake’s art style. The characters look like dolls to me. Hard to take the story seriously.

Exactly. Their heads look like inflated balloons.
I suppose one way to go about it would be to borrow FF5's graphics and make a graphical replacement to be used in Mesen, but if a powerful enough editor existed for FF5 or FF5A, that would probably be the best bet of recreating the game.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 17, 2020, 07:03:29 pm
Okay, the translation is out: http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 18, 2020, 03:01:09 am
Wow, excellent news!
I'll be sure to give it a spin.
Thanks for your hard work.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Vanya on July 18, 2020, 04:40:06 am
Awesome! I'm playing it this weekend for sure!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Rudy on July 18, 2020, 09:41:29 am
Good job on the patch! Ver B really takes it to the next level!
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 18, 2020, 11:25:36 pm
Wonderful, this was one of my most anticipated games of the summer!

I will give a step-by-step analysis of what I think of the game as I go through it.

First off the starting presentation is already quite impressive, putting more effort (as in some actual dialogue) before starting the battle. It is curious to see that was made into an Auto-Battle.

Using Mysidia as the base of operations is quite an interesting idea, what a neat idea for a recontextualization of an area.

Minwu's sprite looks great, but something looks a little off on Hilda's sprite from the side. From the front she looks fine though. Guy's sprite looks incredibly regal! Not exactly befitting of his personality. Firion looks incredible, they did a great job with the space on him, much better than FFII:Origins, I would say. Maria looks like a recolored Rosa, which is fine.

How interesting to see that Leonora appears to be Minwu's protege. A nice touch!

...Keep track of how many items you've looted...? Huh?

Whoa! A mini-bio for each character on their status screen? I didn't even know we could do that!

Iron Arrow/Bow, hmm... no need to keep track of Ammo then? Well, that would be the same as FFII, now that I think on it.

Ah, so the top is the Tower of Prayer, below that is Fabul's Foyer, neat!

Kodzuka Knife...?

Oh, they added descriptions to all of their items! Awesome!

Ah, the game keeps track of the hidden treasure you find. That's a fun idea!

Looks as if Baron's Inn has remained more or less the same, except with a dancer as hostess.

So the Elder of Mysidia's sprite was used for Tabul, eh? Fair enough.

Oh! They completely redid the world map! You never told us about this Mato!

...Well, there's quite a bit of difficulty here at the start. First normal enemies, DiveEagles took down Firion like he was paper. Maria seems to be MVP here with Black Magic, White Magic, and summoning along with some pretty good accuracy.

Well I've grinded up to Level 5 for everyone. It didn't take that long and is somewhat true to the FFII experience, haha. It's neat to see that Maria learns Aero, a spell not in either FFII/IV proper.

Having learned Smoke Bomb at Level 5, I assume that Firion will have a spellbook similar to Edge.

Before I head off from Altair I'll pick up a Rod for Firion and move him to the backrow. His Broadsword is dealing rather poor damage.

Glad to see there are Chocobo Forests scattered throughout the world, instead of just in one place.

Of course, after I spend money on a Rod I find one in Gatrea, *Grumble, grumble...*

Well, I'm glad I saved before marching into Fynn, haha.

So the Town of Fynn is Baron, it makes sense.

The treasures in the towns look to be relatively unchanged, oddly enough.

"replenish arrows by choosing them..."? That looks to be a carryover from the base game.

Haha! I love the "Pint of No Return" joke.

Hmm, I can't say I like how the Bartender just vanishes, instead of doing... anything implying movement.

Scott as Baigan, haha!

If you get into battle with the guards, the music does not change. That's fine for the castle, but I'm not sure it works too well with the peaceful town theme. I would suggest adding in battle music there by using an event instruction.

I have to reiterate, they did a great job with these scaled down PSP portraits (I think Firion may be using a different render, but I'm not fully sure). Minwu looks to be as awesome as ever. However, again his joining event didn't even have him moving into the party, but again, just vanishing.

Curad and Araise? I thought Level 3 magic was -aga and Life2 was Arise?

I like the tip change of "You can catch a ship from Paloom. What, you have a hovercraft? You should take that to Salamand!" It's a nice touch.

Oh, the Battle Axe is two handed. You wrote a rather good message explaining that.

A nice hint that you might be able to get a Black Chocobo in the Paloom Chocobo Forest at some point. I guess that explains why Paloom is Troia then.

"Drink like a sink!"? That's an odd phrase, at least one I've never heard of.

The treasures in Not-Troia and Mythril have been substantially different, thankfully.

Ah so that's how Cid's Airship was set-up in this game, fair enough, though I expected him to be... Cid, and not a generic Officer sprite, an odd choice there, though that might be because Cid's sprite was replaced.

Haha! What are these weird people on the second floor of the Poft Inn? One seems to think they're Terra, Cloud, and Squall and the other is rehearsing the Opera.


Salamand is Kaipo, eh? Well, FFIV does lack any natural ice areas, so I guess this changes makes sense, talk about a complete recontextualization of events in this case though.

Power Ring for sale, hmm? I might have to pick that up if I can.

Mt. Ordeals in the desert, eh? Interesting...

Minwu's sprite in battle looks incredible, probably the best of the sprites so far.

Those Minimages caught me incredibly off-guard, thankfully Minwu is great and managed to silence them when I knew what I was up against.

Yang as Josef makes a good deal of sense.

Wha? I can't get into the hidden waterfall...? Oh! It's probably been repurposed to getting the snow-mobile...equivalent... in this version.

Incant must be Black and Ninja, neat.

Well! Octomamm came out of nowhere! That was a legitimate shock.

One thing which makes the battles a bit more difficult is lower HP thresholds. In the normal game it doesn't take long for any character to reach 100-150 HP, but in this it takes quite a while for any of them to break 100 HP (not counting Minwu or Guy) This makes each blow a bit more damaging overall.

The strategy was to Slow using Minwu, Chocobo Kick him several times with Maria, then Haste and Berserk Guy. Then I tried Aero and saw it was dealing 300 damage... I should have went with that, hehe.

I admit, after OctoMamm, I did not expect there to be a boss of this place. Looks like I was wrong.

The General+Soldiers wasn't exactly a challenge, but it was nice to see that their stats were buffed a bit. I enjoyed that I could use Sleep on them. It's always nice to see status being useful in a boss fight.

I picked up a Kenpo for Guy, who now has 4x attack, which is good. The main 3 are at Level 11 right now.

Hmm, I guess I'll pick up a Mythril Hammer and Bow for the party. That's about all I can afford.

And now Maria might be able to hit something... eventually, with her bow.

I think I will take a break there. The next step is to Bafsk and I have been playing for roughly two and a half hours. This is a lot of fun and is literally a whole new game! Thank you for your efforts Mato.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 19, 2020, 12:24:41 am
According to the readme, past a certain point, the game turns into the last parts of FF4.
What does that mean exactly? that FF4 tiles are used to reproduce the layout of FF2's Pandemonium?
or that said layout and area don't exist in any shape or form and instead what is present is the FF4
endgame as it always was?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Goznog on July 19, 2020, 02:36:37 pm
good job on the release, I do enjoy both FF2 and 4 quite a bit so this'll be a fun time!

I have noticed one error: when fleeing from battle and losing money, it's called "GP" like in the original US version. the patch is using "Gil" everywhere else.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 20, 2020, 12:37:38 am
Basically, after Leon joins the party, a big hole opens up near the Jade Sea. Going down it takes you to the Underworld where almost all of the same things exist as FF4. And then once you're done there, you go to the moon, where almost all of the moon stuff is the same.

So, once Leon joins the party, the game suddenly stops feeling like FFII and mostly just like FFIV. There are still FFII story elements at the end of the game of course, but not too many.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Red Soul on July 20, 2020, 01:12:59 am
I see. I guess it comes with the fact it is a remix rather than a fully fledged recreation.
Thanks again for your hard work on this patch.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: CO_Andy on July 20, 2020, 04:00:22 am
Thoroughly enjoying this bizarre rom hack. Thanks a bunch, 'Mato  :thumbsup:

Not related but are you no longer working on translating FF VI T-Edition?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 20, 2020, 06:47:38 am
Alright, back to it then...

So Bafsk is Fabul proper, an interesting idea, certainly.

I made a little money on the way here so I picked up a collection of Fire/Ice/Lightning arrows.

It's weird to see the Crystal Room is still just... there. I do like the idea of Borghen actually commanding people from a throne instead of aimlessly running around town.

And suddenly the Mist Dragon.

Cold Mist is ridiculously weak now. Ah, Maria gets the Mist Dragon this early, neat! Wasn't much of a fight unfortunately though.

Oh hey! Leonora joins quite early! That's nice to see.

Mt. Ordeals in the Northern Desert instead of non-descript cave in the frozen Tundra, interesting, but necessary change.

Josef is, indeed, basically Yang, haha!

They did an incredible job with the Leonora sprite, both in and out of battle. As my favorite TAY character they did a great job with her all around.

Hmm... there is a mountain pass that you can only reach with a Chocobo right now, which, coincidentally is right by Desert Mt. Ordeals, I can't resist. I'll check it out.

After I take one step, I'm put right outside of the Mythril Mine, I guess I'm not supposed to be here... as noted by the Readme, alright then. At least I savestated so I can just go back on the Chocobo.

Ah, Flame Rod right on the steps of Mt. Ordeals, quite nice.

Oh...! Despite this place being called Mt. Ordeals, the monster layout is still Mt. Hobbs, fair enough. Though I feel like buying that Flame Claw was a trap now, heh.

The MomBomb fight was actually rather well done. It wasn't anything too difficult, but it nearly came close to killing some of my party members.

Firion just learned Debris Storm, I'm glad to see some legitimately new spells being learned.

How interesting, so in this continuity because of Leonora's presence, Josef doesn't die. What an interesting idea and it makes sense from what had been established before. Leonora is slotted in so well in the story, without having played FFII you wouldn't know she wasn't originally in the game. It is also worth noting that her struggles are switch from TAY. Instead of struggling to learn Black Magic, here she struggles to learn White Magic. A nice role reversal.

I think that will do it for today though. Next stop will be Kashuan Keep.

I have to say, that Hovercraft is Amazing and possibly may make this mod better than the actual FFII due to having so little downtime between dungeon locations, I should also note that so far this game has done amazing with making every Gil worth it, which the original FFII and FFIV have both struggled with, so kudos to the creator. So far I'm still not optimally set up.

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 20, 2020, 01:40:21 pm
Not related but are you no longer working on translating FF VI T-Edition?

No, I actually never started a proper translation project for it, although I did do that live translation series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JR12t_v8ug&list=PL8fufren85t94MkcXjmHHj7PkKiAaGA12) of it a few years back, and later made that Wanderbar plugin (https://legendsoflocalization.com/wanderbar/#final-fantasy-vi-t-edition-super-famicom) that translates everything but the new dialogue text (just needs someone to go fill in the blanks at this point):

(https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ff6ta.png)
(https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ff6tb.png)

I also heard there's someone else doing their own Lua-based translation, but I don't know the details.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 22, 2020, 08:08:29 am
Hmm, there may be a slight issue in Kashuan Keep. As it is basically just Eblan Castle with the Goddess Bell to open the other doors, you can go down to the lower levels. The issue is that the game assumes you have Gordon at this point, but he's not required to reach this point.

Well... I do wish it was a little later, considering my Level 5 Gordon was immediately turned into a Paladin, but that's a nice scene. I only wish it was having used "Edward" Gordon for a longer period of time. The Paladin sprite for him looks good as well and in battle I think it is completely original.

 I do wish I knew that scene was coming, so I could have dequipped the former Gordon, ah well.

I rather like these new scenes, Hilda thinking of ways to assist, instead of just being a damsel in distress at this point is quite neat.

Just one slight translation error I noticed. You still have that enemies are "weak to projectiles" when you use Libra, however it seems that Arrows are no longer Wind elemental in this, so you may want to change that "weak to Wind".

Well now! I did not expect to fight the CPU so early, oh dear...

A rather well-balanced fight, I'm impressed.

How... interesting, with the King's death the full recovery panel stops working. Hah.

And that will do it for the day. I think this game moves at a more brisk pace than the original due to the amount of transport options you have. It's refreshing.

Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 22, 2020, 02:21:06 pm
Yeah, I tried to fix issues with the original hack where I could, like that trigger tile thing from a few days back I was asking about. I ran into that Egil's Ghost thing before getting Gordon too, but couldn't think of a way to fix it. I did manage to change it so the Dreadnought chased the airship though in that 1 second animation though, which I'm kinda proud of  :P

July 22, 2020, 04:19:38 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I've uploaded all of my files + data + source code, you can get it here:

http://tomato.fobby.net/ffc2/Final%20Fantasy%20C2%20translation%20files.zip

Fellow FFIV hackers will probably find it interesting and/or hopefully helpful in some way. It'd be easy to retranslate the game now and use all of the text enhancements + extra storage space that I set up. Or maybe there's stuff in there that original hack creators might find cool too.

Anyway, if someone wants to submit the patch + the tools to RHDN's database feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 22, 2020, 09:47:38 pm
Oh wow! You made that scene? I guess in the original hack it was unchanged from Vanilla of normal Airships chasing after the main one, from the Underworld? That is quite impressive! It was a cool scene, undoubtedly.

I think to require Gordon, you could *slightly* change the plot and have the Bell's success also require him in the party (perhaps have him ring it). It's very silly that his big class change can occur right after you get him.

Thanks for uploading your files, I will have to take a look at those later.

----------

I really like that Leila joins in the fight after taking out the Pirates. She's also no pushover. Her spamming Thunder/Thundara does actually require you to pay attention to what's going on and she has a healthy amount of HP. For a fully new and custom fight, well done!

"Ships don't work without Chocobos to propel them", really...? That's an odd choice to make, but it makes sense in context.

How bizarre. Leila starts at Level 20 with not full HP/MP, implying she just came from a battle. A nice touch.

I was not expecting Deist to be Troia for... obvious reasons, but I guess we are running out of castles now, though I suppose Baron... or Damcyan... would have worked, quite an odd choice, even odder is the treasure you can stumble across there.

Well, Deist had quite the haul! I am now paranoid that I missed similar special treasures in the other castles though, heh.

I can't say finding the Pendant was very difficult, but then again it was in the next room over in the original FFII as well.

Whoa! Was not expecting Maria to just be tossed the four Rydia return Summons just like that.

Wooden Hammer, eh? I guess I'll be heading to the Magnes Cave equivalent soon.

Oh my goodness! The Antlion fight was actually quite challenging. The Antlion's physical attacks are relentless and I really have to give credit to the maker of this. They made Protect (repeating casting of increasing your base defense by 8) useful for this one fight! I am impressed!

Queen Lamia was neat. She had a unique steal of a Lilith's Kiss which is a pretty good item, all things considered. She wasn't near as difficult as the Antlion, though I may have just gotten lucky since she did use Charm on Leonora, which thankfully she broke before Leonora could deal any real damage. A Bio here and a Fira with a Charge attack there and she was finished.

And that will do it for the day. Again, this mod continues to impress.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 23, 2020, 12:09:29 pm
Grimoire LD, thanks for leaving your progress updates about the hack! When I found this a couple years ago, I thought the new intro was super cool but when I saw vanilla levels I kinda lost interest--I thought it was just vanilla FF4 with a new overworld and rearranged levels. I didn't realize there was so much new stuff in these old locations!

It didn't help I don't understand Japanese lol. Thank you Mato for your work on translating and fixing up this hack, too!

I'm definitely gonna have to give it a go soon.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Grimoire LD on July 23, 2020, 07:54:46 pm
I wasn't sure what to expect at first either, Celice, but it seems the creator really put their heart into making this a stand-out work. I wonder if perhaps they didn't have the tools available to modify maps themselves at the time?

So making it to the Palamecian Desert wasn't that difficult, but there was a surprise waiting for me in the desert. The Desert Devil hits hard and attacks fast, lulling the player into thinking they're fighting an optional boss. Nope! He has less than 2000 HP, haha.

The constant fighting in the desert has actually weakened me enough to the point where I have to use a Tent before reaching my destination. Kudos on that! I think this is the first time FFIV has ever asked that of me.

So the Coliseum is Damcyan? Well, it had to be used somewhere. The normal treasure place is alright. I have Leonora more inline to be a Sage, rather than a White Mage, so I can't say I found the Priest Miter to be terribly useful.

Fighting Calco and Brena in the Coliseum is interesting! They are made to be much more fleshed out enemies, Brena in particular are resilient and they counter with magic but they are susceptible to status.

I rather liked that the Coliseum wasn't just an Emperor plot, but also Leon too, it helps integrate him into the story just a little more.

"We'll draw the guards attention while you escape!" But... there are no more guards, in fact Damcyan is as barren here as it is in the actual FFIV. A slight bit disappointed there. That could have been a cool section to use the Magnes Cave theme (After all a high security prison that doesn't allow its prisoners to hold metal would be a way of keeping thematic sense) ah well.

On returning to Altair, it's almost surreal to see the Rebel Hideout has been cleared out. It's another good attention to detail.

Now this is a slight bit of wizardry... how did the creator manage to change the world state to add a village here? Unless that was here the entire time and I just ignored it.

Castle Fynn as Baron is fitting.

Haha! I like that the commander of Fynn is just Baigan, no setting up... whatever his name was from the original.

Baigan wasn't very difficult. The tactics remain generally the same as the normal game, except this time you have a Summoner which lets you break through his Reflect easily enough, I was careful to take both Baigan and his Right Arm down at once.

I am glad to see that the mod maker didn't forget his own lore and had Leonora know how to open the way to Mysidia Tower.

And I explored a little too far, ran into Odin, and he murdered me... great. I didn't save either, like a fool, bah.

I think that will do it for the day then.
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Celice on July 29, 2020, 12:29:33 am
I finally got around to playing this on my flashcart. This difficulty smacks! But it's fun so far.

I noticed a small bug with the dialogue window. Sometimes the fourth line doesn't display. I think it might be a sprite limit? If I try moving around the NPC and talking again sometimes it shows up, sometimes it doesn't.

The music sounds a little different too. I think the sound font was tweaked a little?
Title: Re: Mato Projects (mostly FF4 stuff)
Post by: Tomato on July 30, 2020, 05:20:46 pm
I don't think the music was changed, I'm not sure any solid FF4 music hacking tools exist now that I think about it. Would've been cool to hear the rebel theme in FFC2.

For the flash cart stuff, some people have played it on sd2snes just fine, while others have had the same problem. It seems if you change a setting or two in the flash cart it fixes it, but I don't have one myself so I can't really say much about it. There's some relevant info on this thread:

https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1286238252522000384

August 03, 2020, 02:55:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Oh, a couple people have pointed out the "Porky" spell in the game, but that's not a reference to the EarthBound games or anything else at all - the spell is literally called "Porky" in Japanese in FFIV so I just translated it that way. I didn't realize the "Piggy" name was so beloved though