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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: PresidentLeever on October 18, 2019, 07:57:14 pm

Title: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on October 18, 2019, 07:57:14 pm
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/

Inspired by Jeremy Parish's site and YT series in early 2019, I started to document and create a resource for the earlier history of one of my fave genres. Each game entry lists defining features relating to the genre and links to more info in the form of playthroughs and reviews. On the site you have sorting by year, platform and generations (a WIP thing, might change). There's also a page on forerunners/precursors from the period before the first Metroid, and one on outlier games (games outside of but featuring some elements associated with the genre).

I consider the '80s and early '90s pages to be about 85% done so far and am currently working on the mid-late 90s pages. I'm not sure I'll cover the '00s and beyond, I might cut it off around the late '00s to keep it focused on the earlier history of the genre which is what I was interested in documenting in the first place. But we'll see what happens and I can always come back to it later on. The site itself should explain the rest, if it doesn't then let me know.


Latest updates:
-Info and mini reviews for Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (Multi, 2005) and Generations Lost (MD, 1994)
-Info and mini reviews for Adventures of Rad Gravity (NES) and Beyond Good & Evil (Multi)
-Info and mini-reviews for Draconus (C64, 1988) and Ratchet & Clank 2 (PS2, 2003), and a first draft for the third generation intro text
-Info and mini-reviews for Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (NDS, 2006) and Below the Root (C64, 1984)

---
What game do you want to see covered next on the site? Check the "to play" list here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b5xX0jBpcigBEQStfhJ_DzDocBwkJ4PzNZOO3Z8DHWs/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Badseed on November 20, 2019, 12:51:31 pm
Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Spooniest on November 20, 2019, 11:27:57 pm
Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )

I didn't get my degree but was raised by someone who did study it. I could take a pass at proofing for you, Mr. President, if you like.

EDIT: Hehehehehe... I'd completely forgotten there was a game called Montezuma's Revenge... hahaha... Oh, it's inappropriate humor. I'll refrain... this time.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PowerPanda on November 21, 2019, 02:06:13 pm
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 21, 2019, 03:45:25 pm
^Yeah, agreed. Besides the reasons I mention myself. Thanks for checking it out!

Thanks, good read. However, watch your spelling and grammar. (Sorry I have a degree in English, so these things irk me  ::) )

Would you mind pointing some of these out? I'm not a native speaker (swedish) but I feel like I shouldn't be messing this up since it was an obligatory subject in school.

@Spooniest: Be my guest! Yeah that is a pretty funny title, though they don't do anything with the joke in-game.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Badseed on November 22, 2019, 09:50:06 am
President-
I'm not trying to bust your balls, I realized you are not a native speaker by some phrasing like "I've been using Platform Adventure since the 90s". Better English would be something like " I've been playing platform adventure games since the 90s". A different example would be: "the degree to which player caused changes to the game world", there should be an "a" between "which" and "player". Anything else is mostly minor conjugation and/or spelling. Like I said a great read, keep up the good work.  :beer:
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 22, 2019, 12:20:11 pm
Right, well in the first one I'm talking about using the term "Platform Adventure" rather than playing PA games but I can make this clearer.
In the other example, I guess I can rephrase it as "When it comes to persistency, the degree to which changes to the game world caused by the player (ie "player caused changes", I thought you could say that but I guess not) are permanent can vary".

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Badseed on November 22, 2019, 01:12:31 pm
All minor stuff brother, the intent got across loud and clear

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: 4lorn on November 22, 2019, 06:06:48 pm
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!

Worse than that, the more you try and define Metroidvania as a genre the more things fall apart by virtue of its origin point, which was some videogame journos going gaga over the fact that just then they noticed Super Metroid and SotN had maps, character abilities geared toward exploration and power, and explorable and hub-like areas (elements which by themselves have probably been around since the ZX Spectrum era). You can't entirely rely on the design side of things either, since Super Metroid is adamant about the "less is more" design of things while SotN is baroque right down to its systems (hundreds of items and abilities to kill enemies who are largely still programmed to fight retro Belmonts).

Also: didn't mean to rain on your parade, PresidentLeever. It's a nice project, I just never liked the term because of its implications.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 22, 2019, 06:50:26 pm
Sure, well that's partly why I made the site as well - to show earlier similar games and everything leading up to those two. But also to document similar games in-between SotN and the later resurrection of sorts around the mid '00s, as well as precursors to similar 3D games. I've only used the term MV when promoting the site and on the front page because it's popular and useful (kind of, you still see a lot of confusion about what it means).

If you look at the most vivid community based on the genre, which seems to be r/metroidvania, their definition is really just Metroid's style of sidescrolling action adventure, which isn't that far from early Zelda either. SotN's additions aren't seen as a staple except for those who are really into that style. Jeremy Parish's definition seems looser, maybe he changed his mind since then but there's a YT video where he says the 3D zeldas are basically MVs.

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on December 28, 2019, 11:51:24 am
Latest updates: Info on Crash 2, Turok, Fantastic Dizzy and Misadventures of Tron Bonne
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on January 16, 2020, 03:49:31 pm
Latest update: Info on Outcast (1999) and Milon's Secret Castle (GB, 1993)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: pirate_sephiroth on January 19, 2020, 09:40:56 pm
It's awful how crappy indie games and dumb reviewers destroyed the meaning of the term.
Nowadays, any 2D platformer adventure set in a non linear map is defined as "metroidvania".

The games have none of the RPG elements (stats, elements, gear) from SotN so they're left only with the metroid part, therefore Metroid-like would have been the proper classification.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on January 20, 2020, 10:57:22 am
To be fair the meaning (of MV) was always pretty loose. See this discussion between the people who coined and popularized it from 2008:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdiv5W9xrQM

It can be either Metroid-like or SotN/ARPG-like, it covers both ends of that spectrum. Platform Adventure also covered both historically, at least here in Sweden.
If you look at Reddit's MV subreddit, which are generally more hardcore, they define it based on Metroid's mechanics and structure rather than SotN as well.

Personally I think a proper Metroid-like would be a game without towns, NPCs and shops as well, perhaps in a sci-fi setting too.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on January 30, 2020, 05:01:14 am
I always define a game by labelling it with one or two genres. I've always called these games adventure platformers, so it's nice to see that here.

If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Bregalad on January 30, 2020, 09:43:24 am
Quick note, I REALLY like the term "Platform Adventure Game." I've never been a fan of the "Metroidvania" title, because I think that up until Ori and the Blind Forest, it kind of dictated theme and atmosphere in addition to mechanics. This website is a great resource, as it shows the genre didn't pop up out of nowhere with Metroid. Good work!
The problem is that "adventure" is an extremely vague term, basically any video game where you are some kind of hero with a mission is an adventure game, that is at least half of every game ever released if not even more. Nevertheless the term is elegant.

Quote
If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.
But what is an "RPG element" ? Usually if you have stats or level ups, maybe an lifebar that incrase sizes, or if you can switch weapons. But many games have those features and aren't RPGs.

Back when Nintendo released Metroid, it was part of some sort of trilogy with Legend of Zelda and Kid Icarus, where all 3 games were on Famicom Disk System, used saves and FDS sound (for the first time on the Famicom), and had some RPG elements while still being essentially action games. RPG elements were limited to saves, increased lifebar (although you'd still get the standard low amount of health after game over) and the use of items.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on January 30, 2020, 11:47:13 am
To me, RPG elements have always referred to character progress in numerical terms. Increase of hearts like in Zelda aren't enough for me to call Zelda an RPG. Levelling up feels like one. So does equipment. And every game that has these elements, to me, is an RPG.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 03, 2020, 04:19:44 pm
The problem is that "adventure" is an extremely vague term, basically any video game where you are some kind of hero with a mission is an adventure game, that is at least half of every game ever released if not even more. Nevertheless the term is elegant.

Ok and the explanation on the site isn't enough? There's also wikipedia. Doesn't seem like you read either but yes, I can understand the confusion to an extent since platformer directly refers to game mechanics whereas action adventure seems like it's from movies. In fact that's how the term became so vague in the mid-late 90s where reviewers started calling Tomb Raider and such games AA when they are more like "Prince of Persia-style platformers in 3D".

I always define a game by labelling it with one or two genres. I've always called these games adventure platformers, so it's nice to see that here.

If it has RPG elements I call it an RPG platformer.

Sure, that works too I suppose. I don't mind slapping a few different genres on a game either, which I do for a lot of games on the lists on the site. Platform Adventure/MV is always assumed, and then the genre(s) next to the game titles in the lists are complementary to that.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: thr on February 03, 2020, 10:37:38 pm
nice site, but could you add or switch to list view? grid view is ok in a gamestore or a frontend or some such, but here it just makes it really tough to know what i'm clicking actually, with all these stylised lettering and game names in japanese.
it also seems you're using uncompressed images for your games lists. please use proper thumbnails, because those category pages load very slowly even with a fast connection.
also, the search on your page does not actually search your page. you'll need to add a custom default query for "platformadventure.weebly" to actually show results from your site.

edit: oh yeah, i consider Zelda clones Metroidvanias too. It's obvious with Zelda 2, but even with other Zeldas the only distinguishing factor is that they're tile based, or in 3d. But Metroid Prime was 3d too. so what matters is game mechanics, and Zelda clones share most of these with MVs: powerups, heart containers, secrets, puzzles, killing mobs, monster drops, etc. presentation may be different. but it's still mostly the same genre in my book
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 04, 2020, 06:12:15 pm
I just thought I'd go with a more modern and stylish look (as much as a free weebly site can provide that) but I can add a page with a list, sure. Note that you can hover over any cover with JP text only and see a pop-up text of its title that I've added though. Oh and if anyone knows how to link to a specific line on a subpage for a free weebly site then I'd love to know that as well.

No weebly turns them into jpegs actually, but it seems the size is maintained and some are pretty big. I could have a look at that at some point, if I get more complaints about it. For me the biggest pages tend to load in a few seconds.

The search tool seems to be working fine for me? Not sure what you mean.

Agreed on the ones with proper platforming at least. Well, some are more purist and consider the overworld/dungeons structure of Zelda and similar games to be enough of a difference, and the platforming is semi-automatic in the N64 and GC games, so that's different as well.



February 06, 2020, 05:45:07 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
nice site, but could you add or switch to list view? grid view is ok in a gamestore or a frontend or some such, but here it just makes it really tough to know

Here you go!:
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/list-format.html

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 15, 2020, 07:18:11 am
Back for more!

Latest updates: Info on Shadow Man (Multi, 1999) and Odyssey (Amiga, 1995)
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/1999-wip.html
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 29, 2020, 04:46:32 pm
Latest update:
-Info on Rygar (NES), Ikachan (PC) and Wario Land 3 (GBC)
-Added a 2000 page and a platform page for GB & GBC
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/by-year.html

Edit:
Added a "useful links" page:
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/useful-links.html


May 05, 2020, 01:53:58 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I started adding to a 3D MVs youtube playlist, and just finished a first draft of the gen 1 list as a playlist.

3D: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLznWdSFQxsPtwScqBX6EJFzgYuiI6d3Ai
1986-1993: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLznWdSFQxsPvDefo1bjeRaJy7iDfRfPxA

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 12, 2020, 06:49:07 am
Latest updates: Info on Banjo-Tooie (N64) and Blaster Master: Blasting Again (PS1).
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/2000-wip.html

What do people want to see added next?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b5xX0jBpcigBEQStfhJ_DzDocBwkJ4PzNZOO3Z8DHWs
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 23, 2020, 02:41:10 pm
Latest updates: Info on and mini-reviews for Metroid Prime (GC) and Shantae (GBC), added 2002 and 2003 pages, finished gen 2 text
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/2002-wip.html
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: JJaANF on May 23, 2020, 06:49:48 pm
President, you're a king !!!  ;-D


Impossible mission: my friend & I lost DAYS before we...began to begin to understand what to do...  XD


Thank you for the memento...   I forgot about this game, until I read this topic...   total luck !!!
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on June 01, 2020, 02:08:04 pm
Thanks, glad I could help dude. :)

Latest update:
-Info on and mini reviews for Eternal Daughter (PC) and CV: Dawn of Sorrow (NDS)
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/2002-wip.html


June 08, 2020, 09:47:20 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Latest updates:
Info and mini reviews for Threads of Fate (PS1), Space Hunter (NES) and Spellcaster (SMS) as well as some minor updates here and there.
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/by-year.html

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on June 15, 2020, 06:17:03 pm
I added a page for top down & isometric games (mainly outliers to the MV genre, so I put it on that page). If nothing else it should be useful for the retro ARPG/AA info and/or as a checklist:
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/outliers.html

The spreadsheet has seen some major updates as well!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nA12FiqLUe1xoRyjXhaQYOMGpzylhejqsFek148-BGs/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on June 27, 2020, 05:43:59 pm
Latest updates:
Info and mini reviews for Alundra 2 (PS1), Shapeshifter (PCE CD) and Vigilance on Talos V (PC) as well as some other updates here and there.
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/1999-wip.html

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on July 14, 2020, 02:57:46 pm
Latest updates:
-Added info and a mini review for Within a Deep Forest
-Updated every game entry with a few sub categories (subgenre, perspective, movement mechanics, other)

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on September 16, 2020, 09:30:39 am
Latest update:
-Info and mini-reviews for Ratchet & Clank (PS2) and Spider-Man 2 (PS2, 2004).

SM2 only barely qualifies here, admittedly.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 09, 2020, 03:11:59 am
Latest updates: Shaman King (GBA), System Shock 2 (PC) and Clash at Demonhead (NES)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 20, 2020, 10:28:34 am
These are WIP categorizations of retro MV subgenres and related genres based mainly on structure (click links for full size).

'80s:
https://i.imgur.com/VF8HaT3.png

'90s:
https://i.imgur.com/sL0h99U.png

Edit:
(https://i.imgur.com/2xYpnZZ.png)

Key: https://platformadventure.weebly.com/subgenres-key.html
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on November 29, 2020, 04:42:53 pm
Latest updates:
Kirby & the Amazing Mirror (GBA, 2004)
La-Mulana (PC, 2005)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on December 23, 2020, 09:58:48 am
Latest updates:
Batman: Arkham Asylum (PC, 2009)
Aquaria (PC, 2007)
Tomba! 2 (PS1, 1999)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on January 22, 2021, 04:43:43 am
(https://platformadventure.weebly.com/uploads/8/6/9/1/8691987/platform-adventure-mv-wordart-wordcloud-art-2_orig.png)

(https://platformadventure.weebly.com/uploads/8/6/9/1/8691987/platform-adventure-mv-wordart-wordcloud-art_orig.png)

mv term word cloud time!
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 08, 2021, 12:04:31 pm
Latest updates: Lyle in Cube Sector (PC) and Legacy of the Wizard (NES)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on February 09, 2021, 12:00:34 am
Lyle in Cube Sector? That rings a bell. I wonder why? It looks like it was too recent for Home of the Underdogs.

Unfortunately I must confess I find its entry on your site to be neither compelling nor informative.  Who exactly is the audience for all this?  It feels like your own rough personal notes for your own records.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 09, 2021, 04:11:50 am
Lyle in Cube Sector? That rings a bell. I wonder why? It looks like it was too recent for Home of the Underdogs.

Unfortunately I must confess I find its entry on your site to be neither compelling nor informative.  Who exactly is the audience for all this?  It feels like your own rough personal notes for your own records.

You'll have to explain that a bit more. How is it not informative? What info is missing for you?

Well, maybe the people who have donated to me have found some worth in it, or others who have commented positively which is the vast majority who have commented.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on February 09, 2021, 11:47:19 am
It's just like I said:
Quote
Partially non-linear (can get kick from the third area before phantom cube from the second one, can explore area 4 (purple one with meat eating plants) before area 3, can explore part of area 5 (grey) after the first boss, can explore part of the southeastern lava area before beating the second boss but need large block carrying to clear it and the sand area)

Non-persistent green blocks (the ones that don't break from throwing them around) even within the same room and some issues with non-respawning blocks in various rooms - makes you backtrack to be able to retry a segment until you get the phantom cube ability
Why would I need to know this?  Is this useful information when it comes to deciding whether or not to play the game?

In that regard I find even the brief TVTropes blurb (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/LyleInCubeSector) to be more helpful.

There at least has got to be a better way to present this information than using parentheses everywhere.

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 09, 2021, 01:24:54 pm
Non-linearity and world persistency are key aspects of MV games and fans tend to prefer a non-linear experience over a linear one, at least judging by the MV subreddit and various popular YT vids as well as feedback from people I've shown the site to. So why would you not want to know this?

I'm already linking to gameplay and reviews at the bottom of each entry, such info as in the tvtropes blurb is already covered better there (or in this case, you already know it's a metroidvania and that you work with cubes, the latter is in the name and the former is a given with a site like this lol) and the rest on that site is obviously not relevant. As the front page says this is for quick reference and not a full text review or description of each game.

Tip: Don't read what's inside the parenthesis (which I don't use everywhere mind you) if you don't want the details or want to avoid detailed gameplay spoilers. Or just check the list format page if you don't want any of this info, as I mention on the site already.

If you can make an actual suggestion on what to change I'll think about it. But it seems like you just wanted to complain a bit for no particular reason?
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on February 09, 2021, 07:21:26 pm
Like I said: I don't know who the audience is for this.  The only thing in my experience to which I can reasonably compare it is the rough draft for a reference work.  Is this modeled on something else you've seen? If you think it's perfect the way it is then I guess I'm not the audience?

Non-linearity and world persistency are key aspects of MV games and fans tend to prefer a non-linear experience over a linear one, at least judging by the MV subreddit and various popular YT vids as well as feedback from people I've shown the site to. So why would you not want to know this?
So, you're saying it's important to quantify the degree of non-linearity, and there's no better way of doing this than to write out the path through the game in detail?

Quote
As the front page says this is for quick reference and not a full text review or description of each game.
In that case, it's exceptionally difficult to pick out key points of reference from these dense blocks of text – especially if people are supposed to deliberately avoid the parentheticals. (I'm also looking at Aquaria (https://platformadventure.weebly.com/2007-wip.html) – I have much fondness for that game – and I am baffled.) It might be appropriate to arrange everything in a database table of some sort.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 10, 2021, 04:01:59 am
I'm not sure what your problem is, I told you there is an audience.

So, you're saying it's important to quantify the degree of non-linearity, and there's no better way of doing this than to write out the path through the game in detail?

What do you think is a better way? You have a general statement about the structure in "partially non-linear", then the details follow. You're still not making any suggestions, just trying to put down my work it sounds like.

I already am making a spreadsheet as well, which I mention and link to on the front page and useful links page.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nA12FiqLUe1xoRyjXhaQYOMGpzylhejqsFek148-BGs/edit?usp=sharing

I could make the line spacing on the site a bit wider maybe?

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on February 10, 2021, 11:56:36 am
I'm not sure what your problem is, I told you there is an audience.
And I feel like I'm making clear points and reasonable suggestions. So I guess we have to agree to disagree. :huh:

Certainly there is much enthusiasm for "platform adventure games" and people interested in finding more of the same will be drawn to means of finding more of them that they are unfamiliar with.

Quote
What do you think is a better way? You have a general statement about the structure in "partially non-linear", then the details follow.
The general statement is getting utterly lost in the details, and the details seem hugely unnecessary.  It seems to me like they are only useful if someone has played the game and wants to know after the fact why you decided to classify it as "Partially non-linear" – but who would do that?  Who, exactly, with the provided context, needs to know "can explore part of the southeastern lava area before beating the second boss but need large block carrying to clear it"?  This is not a complaint; this is a genuine question.

Maybe the details could be in some sort of collapsible tree structure?
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 10, 2021, 01:10:39 pm
This is the first post you've made any actual suggestions that are reasonable though, before it was just vague whining and two seemingly based on complete ignorance of the genre we're talking about and/or not checking the main pages before commenthing.

Re: Tree structure: Maybe, and I've had the same thought regarding that among a few other things for the layout, but they're not possible to do with the weebly tool.
I really don't see how it gets lost when the details are in parenthesis, sorry. A few ways of generally expressing the amount of non-linearity should be enough for most people and then they can read the details if it's not like I said.

Since you're the only one to complain about having a lot of optional info for some points in parenthesis, in 2+ years, I'm gonna disregard it.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on February 18, 2021, 04:56:10 pm
Latest updates: Chibi-Robo! (GC) and Battle of Olympus (NES)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 12, 2021, 12:17:50 pm
Latest updates: Deus Ex (PC) and Spyro 3 (PS1). These are both outliers but share some elements with MVs
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: MysticLord on March 14, 2021, 10:26:03 pm
Do you know of any platformer game makers, or very easy to use engines for making them? I saw something called Platformer Maker or suchlike a few weeks ago but I lost the link. I think it started as an open source clone of Mario Maker or something.

I've been wanting to implement a few ideas I have that are beyond my romhacking skills.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on March 15, 2021, 02:06:37 am
Do you know of any platformer game makers, or very easy to use engines for making them?
I expect that depends on exactly what you want to do and how much you want to program, or not program. I see MonoGame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonoGame) is popular, and I think Clickteam Fusion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickteam) is still useful.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: MysticLord on March 15, 2021, 04:32:13 pm
I expect that depends on exactly what you want to do and how much you want to program, or not program. I see MonoGame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonoGame) is popular, and I think Clickteam Fusion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickteam) is still useful.
I was hoping someone would know what I forgot, I guess not. I'll probably use Solarus (https://www.solarus-games.org/) instead.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: Jorpho on March 15, 2021, 08:21:02 pm
I didn't know Solarus could make platformers.

A search for "mario maker clone pc" (no quotes) turns up this Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/MarioMaker/comments/7vmhe1/any_mario_maker_alternatives_for_pc/) with numerous selections. Mario Builder, maybe?

I don't know if you tried Googling for platformer maker, but maybe you saw PlataGO! (https://store.steampowered.com/app/732400/PlataGO_Super_Platform_Game_Maker/) ?
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2021, 05:22:26 am
Do you know of any platformer game makers, or very easy to use engines for making them? I saw something called Platformer Maker or suchlike a few weeks ago but I lost the link. I think it started as an open source clone of Mario Maker or something.

I've been wanting to implement a few ideas I have that are beyond my romhacking skills.

Why are you asking in this thread?
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: MysticLord on March 16, 2021, 03:00:53 pm
Why are you asking in this thread?
Because if anyone would know, it's most likely the guy who spends his free time categorizing obscure video games older than half the userbase of this site.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2021, 06:45:26 pm
As if this isn't a community largely focused on translating and hacking NES games. :huh:

Even if that wasn't the case the question still wouldn't make sense to ask to me since my site has nothing to do with making games.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: MysticLord on March 16, 2021, 11:06:12 pm
As if this isn't a community largely focused on translating and hacking NES games. :huh:

Even if that wasn't the case the question still wouldn't make sense to ask to me since my site has nothing to do with making games.
Aaaaaanyways I'll just make a thread about remake/maker game engines. Good luck with your endeavors.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 21, 2021, 12:08:50 pm
Latest updates:
-Info and mini-reviews for Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (NDS, 2006) and Below the Root (C64, 1984)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 28, 2021, 02:29:35 pm
Latest updates:
-Info and mini-reviews for Draconus (C64, 1988) and Ratchet & Clank 2 (PS2, 2003), and a first draft for the third generation intro text

Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 05, 2021, 03:56:36 am
https://platformadventure.weebly.com/
Latest updates: Info and mini reviews for Adventures of Rad Gravity (NES) and Beyond Good & Evil (Multi)

I beat Rad Gravity (NES) today and Beyond Good & Evil (GC) the other day, was playing the latter for most of the week. BG&E is a mostly linear Zelda-like with some interesting ideas and an unusual premise, where you play as a (female, non-white) journalist photographer trying to expose a corrupt paramilitary force while joining an underground rebel force and defending your home planet against alien invasion. One of the mechanics seems to have inspired either bash from Ori or aimed throwing from Guacamelee, or perhaps both - you have your CPU ally stun enemies and then you can do an aimed hit while the game pauses to knock them into obstacles or other enemies. While the game feels kind of cut short and underdeveloped in some areas it's well worth playing if you're into the GC era Zeldas and more linear MVs, and presentation-wise I was pretty impressed with it.

Rad Gravity on the other hand, well, it's a pretty creative and quirky earlier game in the genre, using a hub map to let you travel between solar systems and being one of the first games I've seen with a teleporter beacon tool (you place it somewhere and can then teleport there while in the same room) as well as puzzle-style boss fights a la Zelda 3 onwards. However it's just really rough around the edges, with no checkpoints within areas and a lot of trial & error involved in the progression. It's also not as open-ended as it first appears. Still you might wanna check it out if you don't mind using a guide for some parts, and it does give you unlimited lives.
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 14, 2021, 10:55:05 am
Latest updates: Info and mini reviews for Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (Multi, 2005) and Generations Lost (MD, 1994)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 25, 2021, 08:07:50 pm
Latest updates:
Info and mini reviews for Metroid Prime 2 (GC) and Stanley: The Search for Dr. Livingston (NES)
Title: Re: Quick Reference Guide to Retro Metroidvania/Platform Adventure Games
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 10, 2021, 08:45:44 am
Latest updates: Info and mini reviews for Dead Space (2008) and An Untitled Story (2007)