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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on June 24, 2019, 08:34:37 am

Title: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: RHDNBot on June 24, 2019, 08:34:37 am
(https://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2237a.png) (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/) (https://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage2237b.png) (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/)

Update By: Chaos Rush

Final Fantasy III is a game for the Famicom/NES that never saw release outside of Japan in it's original form. In 2006, Square Enix remade the game for the Nintendo DS, which was the first time players worldwide were able to experience some form of this game.

This specific translation is actually a 'do-over' from a previous attempt in 2016.

Although previous fan-translations of this game exist, they were made before Square's DS remake. As such, in 2016 Chaos Rush wanted to make a new translation-hack of the original Final Fantasy III for Famicom/NES that aimed to port the script used in the DS remake (when applicable, because the remake alters certain story elements) while retranslating from scratch any parts that were altered in the remake, with the end goal being an English-language version of the original Final Fantasy III with the canon names for characters, spells, items and such. While this initial project was completed, it had its issues: In order to fit the script, Chaos Rush expanded the ROM to 1mb while using a patch that converted the game to use the MMC5 mapper, thinking that there wouldn't be any issues that stem from it by doing so. Several users pointed out that the RAM configuration used in Final Fantasy III would not have been compatible with the MMC5 mapper to begin with. In addition to that, there were several bugs and crashes that stemmed from the MMC5 mapper conversion, and certain emulators did not support the hack at all. Several users requested that the project be redone in order to keep the 512kb ROM size of the original game and look into ways to compress the script, so that users can finally have a hardware-compatible version of the original Final Fantasy III in English that uses the canon terminology.

With that said, in 2019 Chaos Rush produced a new version of the translation that keeps the game's original ROM size and mapper configuration. In order to fit the script into the game's limited space for text, the script had to be redone from the 2016 version, thus a new script was produced that words things as minimally as possible while implementing DTE compression into the game in order to fit as much text as possible within the original ROM size. The new script was produced by comparing the Japanese text from the original Famicom version with the English text from the 2016 translation (which about 75% of was a script port of the DS version), and then coming up with a new line that words things as minimally as possible while getting across the main points expressed in the Japanese script while keeping the "spirit" of the DS script. Thus, it is more or less an abridged version of the script from the 2016 version, but the Japanese text was looked at in both cases. The compressed script takes up 99.97% of the space used by the Japanese version of the game for the text.

Whether you want to call this a translation or an "abridged script port", either way the end result is an English-language version of Final Fantasy III for the NES that uses the terminology from Square Enix's remake on the Nintendo DS (and subsequent ports), with a script that provides a similar atmosphere to the remake while also staying true to the original text, all while keeping the same ROM size and mapper configuration as the original game.

RHDN Project Page (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/)

Relevant Link (https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/)
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Special on June 24, 2019, 10:08:01 am
So where can I download the original 2016 v1.4 translation (I think you called it Refurbished), I don't very much care about HW compatibility and find this abridged script to be a step down.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 24, 2019, 10:54:38 am
So where can I download the original 2016 v1.4 translation (I think you called it Refurbished), I don't very much care about HW compatibility and find this abridged script to be a step down.
The 2016 version crashes when using certain spells because the animation routines weren’t adjusted for the MMC5 mapper (I’m not trying to slander the person who made the mapper patch, just pointing out that it wasn’t ready for use yet).

Besides, the 2016 version retained a lot of extra fluff from the DS version. Often times, lines that were just “arigatou!” in the Japanese version were fluffed into, “You brave warriors have my eternal gratitude”. Stuff like that is normal for modern game translations of course (due to English requiring more context clarification in general), but those long detailed dialogs clearly weren’t meant to be used with a NES game with a big monospaced font. If it was feasible to implement a VWF font in FFIII, then in that case retaining the DS script would have been appropriate.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: John Enigma on June 24, 2019, 02:13:25 pm
I don't very much care about HW compatibility and find this abridged script to be a step down.
You sir or ma'am, have weird tastes. But I respect your opinion.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Bregalad on June 24, 2019, 02:44:51 pm
So where can I download the original 2016 v1.4 translation (I think you called it Refurbished), I don't very much care about HW compatibility and find this abridged script to be a step down.
There's always the 1024k translation that uses MMC3.

That being said back then I proved it was largely possible to compress the script with Huffman and have it fit in 512k but few people were interested.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 24, 2019, 03:03:33 pm
There's always the 1024k translation that uses MMC3.

That being said back then I proved it was largely possible to compress the script with Huffman and have it fit in 512k but few people were interested.
Right now I don't have the ASM skill to modify the game's text routines to implement a Huffman decompressor. It's not something that I've forgotten about, and it is still in the back of my mind. I appreciate you looking into further ways to compress the script, and I apologize if it seemed like your efforts were being ignored. As it is, the new version still uses compression (simple DTE compression). Huffman compression is on my mind, and it's something I may look into soon, but I can't make any promises that I can make it happen.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Bregalad on June 24, 2019, 03:10:53 pm
Quote
I appreciate you looking into further ways to compress the script, and I apologize if it seemed like your efforts were being ignored.
Don't worry about that, it's much much less effort looking whether it's feasible, rather than actually implement it and making it working without bugs.

Also I might not have taken in account the simple DTE compression. As an alternative you can make DTE compression recursive, it works very, very well for text too. And usually (depending on how decompression is done) it's very simple to implement if normal DTE compression is working.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Pennywise on June 24, 2019, 03:16:50 pm
If you're looking for huffman source code, you can find it in the docs section here. RedComet implemented it for his NES DBZ translations.

I was thinking about messing with this game myself. The game could probably benefit from some interface hacks like displaying 1 item per line as opposed to 2. Spells might be a different story, but you're gonna need more room for longer names and I don't know what the limits are.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Special on June 24, 2019, 03:46:02 pm
The 2016 version crashes when using certain spells because the animation routines weren’t adjusted for the MMC5 mapper (I’m not trying to slander the person who made the mapper patch, just pointing out that it wasn’t ready for use yet).

Besides, the 2016 version retained a lot of extra fluff from the DS version. Often times, lines that were just “arigatou!” in the Japanese version were fluffed into, “You brave warriors have my eternal gratitude”. Stuff like that is normal for modern game translations of course (due to English requiring more context clarification in general), but those long detailed dialogs clearly weren’t meant to be used with a NES game with a big monospaced font. If it was feasible to implement a VWF font in FFIII, then in that case retaining the DS script would have been appropriate.

Even so, I'd still like the 2016 1.4 version if you can.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 24, 2019, 10:24:11 pm
Now if only this patch (and Chaos Rush's FFII retranslation) were both widely adopted by the gaming community at large... I guess they don't even know these new translations exist, because I still see new Youtube uploads using the old fan translations, and the FF wiki widely covers these.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Isao Kronos on June 24, 2019, 10:42:29 pm
Now if only this patch (and Chaos Rush's FFII retranslation) were both widely adopted by the gaming community at large... I guess they don't even know these new translations exist, because I still see new Youtube uploads using the old fan translations, and the FF wiki widely covers these.

the same reason people use old versions of VBA and ZSNES
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chicken Knife on June 25, 2019, 10:00:14 am
I'm very pleased that Chaos Rush decided to drop the expansion. The associated bugs made it difficult to enjoy for me.

A couple little things to point out: in your pic of a sample spell list, you have Bahamur instead of Bahamut. Is that a typo?

Also, have you thought about including bug fixes into the game? You can get a standalone flee bug fix from the Maeson Mix patches but it would be nice to have that included by default. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has fixed the bug where elemental rods are supposed to give I believe a 25 percent power boost to associated magic types. That would offer a nice little improvement to the underpowered black mage job.

I hope you stay around for this and continue to make improvements. It's such a spectacular game and deserves a ton of love.

I'll try to do a play of this at some point soon and I'd be happy to offer feedback on the script or any issues I come across.

Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 25, 2019, 10:32:05 am
I'm very pleased that Chaos Rush decided to drop the expansion. The associated bugs made it difficult to enjoy for me.

A couple little things to point out: in your pic of a sample spell list, you have Bahamur instead of Bahamut. Is that a typo?

Also, have you thought about including bug fixes into the game? You can get a standalone flee bug fix from the Maeson Mix patches but it would be nice to have that included by default. Also, I'm not sure if anyone has fixed the bug where elemental rods are supposed to give I believe a 25 percent power boost to associated magic types. That would offer a nice little improvement to the underpowered black mage job.

I hope you stay around for this and continue to make improvements. It's such a spectacular game and deserves a ton of love.

I'll try to do a play of this at some point soon and I'd be happy to offer feedback on the script or any issues I come across.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bahamut_(Final_Fantasy_III_boss)

Quote
Once he is defeated the party gains the summon spell "Bahamur".

The summoned monster is Bahamut, but the name of the summoning spell is Bahamur. As for bug fixes, haven’t really decided. I feel like if I do then it should be an optional patch because the bug is something that’s in the original game. Hope you enjoy playing this!
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chicken Knife on June 25, 2019, 03:03:23 pm
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bahamut_(Final_Fantasy_III_boss)
The summoned monster is Bahamut, but the name of the summoning spell is Bahamur.
I'm amazed I never came across that over the years.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bahamut_(Final_Fantasy_III_boss)
As for bug fixes, haven’t really decided. I feel like if I do then it should be an optional patch because the bug is something that’s in the original game. Hope you enjoy playing this!
Yeah, I agree that having them optional is the way to go. I think the FFV GBA Script Port hack did it right as far as having some optional patches included, one being a bug fix compilation. Even if a separate patch, I think it becomes an important part of the draw for people.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Bregalad on June 26, 2019, 02:35:17 am
The summoned monster is Bahamut, but the name of the summoning spell is Bahamur.
Are you sure it's not a typo ? Usually in Final Fantasy the name of a summoning spell is 1:1 the name of the summoned creature. That's the 1st time I ever hear of a spell summoning a creature whose name is different from the spell. Exept maybe "Chocobo" who summons "Fat Chocobo".
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 26, 2019, 03:12:27 am
Are you sure it's not a typo ? Usually in Final Fantasy the name of a summoning spell is 1:1 the name of the summoned creature. That's the 1st time I ever hear of a spell summoning a creature whose name is different from the spell. Exept maybe "Chocobo" who summons "Fat Chocobo".
It might be a typo on Square’s end, but it says Bahamur on the DS, PSP, iOS, and PC versions so I’m keeping it like that because it might also be intentional.

Skip to 5:02:
https://youtu.be/LE_ZFwEBtMs

For whatever reason, they keep calling it “Bahamur” in FFIII.

Edit: Also, in the Japanese versions the monster is バハムート (Bahamuuto/Bahamut) and the spell is バハムル (Bahamuru/Bahamur). It’s not a typo guys.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 26, 2019, 03:52:47 am
Guys, in FF3 all the summons have a corresponding unique "spell name" while the creatures summoned by the spell have the typical names we know. It was the first time they did summons, so it's a case of "Early Installment Weirdness" as TV Tropes calls it.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Special on June 27, 2019, 12:40:19 pm
No thanks to Chaos Rush on this, but fortunately others users here helped me out and I was able to get a hold of the original v1.4 "Refurbished" patch of FF3, I uploaded for anyone else that wants.

Mediafire (https://www.mediafire.com/file/0buzb902m50rf7h/FF3+Translation+v1_4.zip) / Zippyshare (https://www34.zippyshare.com/v/GQYuuBwX/file.html)
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: Isao Kronos on June 27, 2019, 05:11:48 pm
No thanks to Chaos Rush on this, but fortunately others users here helped me out and I was able to get a hold of the original v1.4 "Refurbished" patch of FF3, I uploaded for anyone else that wants.

Mediafire (https://www.mediafire.com/file/0buzb902m50rf7h/FF3+Translation+v1_4.zip) / Zippyshare (https://www34.zippyshare.com/v/GQYuuBwX/file.html)

Please don't be rude to the author about this. I would've uploaded it but I wanted to wait for the author's permission to do so or them to do it themselves. Which is common courtesy around here.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: oracylum on June 28, 2019, 08:23:08 am
Thanks for the work on this! Always great to see older translations being replaced with more updated/official ones.

Seems more and more often we see people nitpicking and criticizing in these threads before the author even gets a "thank you". I greatly appreciate all the work you guys do on this scene, regardless of how small or redundant it may seem to others.
Title: Re: Translations: Final Fantasy III English Translation for NES, now 512kb!
Post by: SCO on June 28, 2019, 05:59:35 pm
Does this still work with this new translation like it did with the previous?:

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4120/