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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Chaos Rush on June 20, 2019, 11:46:36 pm

Title: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 20, 2019, 11:46:36 pm
Hello, these are my translation projects for the Final Fantasy trilogy on the NES. The purpose of these is to simply provide an English version of the original Final Fantasy games but with terminology that matches the ones used in the remakes made by Square Enix, along with providing an accurate script. Of course, these are NES games so space is limited, so not everything is as expanded and detailed as I'd like it to be, but I do my best to fit as much as I can within the limited ROM space by using DTE compression. The scripts in general are a mix of my own translation while looking at the remake versions as a guide, but the only content present is what was in the original Famicom versions of the games (since their remakes on GBA and onwards often changed and expanded lines, and those changed/expanded lines were translated by Square Enix for the overseas releases of the remakes). I'm half-Japanese and lived in Japan when I was little, so I have a bit of a language background in Japanese, but my education was in English so language-wise I am English-dominant. A few years ago my Japanese was pretty rusty but I've worked to improve it as much as I can.

I want to make it clear that these projects are strictly translations, are are NOT hacks, and I will not do anything to "balance" the game. These are the original raw games as they are, but in English.

Originally, this project started with Final Fantasy II in 2015 (original topic can be found here (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=20400.msg286750#msg286750)). In 2016 I moved on to Final Fantasy III, but I made some bad decisions with that translation (expanding the ROM) so in 2019 I made a new version of it that keeps the original ROM size (this was originally the thread for that).  I am now working on Final Fantasy I.

Final Fantasy (original Japanese version, NOT US version)
Status: Complete, but minor updates planned
Link: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4868/
(https://i.imgur.com/aHPGCLy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/M1jedMt.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HrzoDd3.png) (https://i.imgur.com/O3gtm7f.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0cdFscG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/7f7lzl1.png) (https://i.imgur.com/hWL8naZ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Ktt80BK.png)

Final Fantasy II
Status: Complete, but future update planned
RHDN Link: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2656/
(http://i.imgur.com/9cqFxQO.png) (http://i.imgur.com/nf4xQjj.png) (http://i.imgur.com/I7FEtlE.png)  (http://i.imgur.com/GZMpcWD.png)(http://i.imgur.com/4nqk4xy.png) (http://i.imgur.com/6faUb4l.png) (http://i.imgur.com/A0VrnoH.png) (http://i.imgur.com/VjrthGe.png)

Final Fantasy III
Status: Complete, but future update planned
RHDN Link: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/4760/
(https://i.imgur.com/XGUC3kU.png) (https://i.imgur.com/VBpfmRX.png) (https://i.imgur.com/UQgnKUy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/LIrErm9.png) (https://i.imgur.com/qoO0byy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Q23aLqF.png) (https://i.imgur.com/nh03ba.pngl) (https://i.imgur.com/GVEfblf.png)

Final Fantasy I & II
Status: Someday...

Credits (FF1):
* Chaos Rush(me) - translation and hacking
* NeonStreetlight - script revision
* Disch - Final Fantasy US Disassembly (although it's for the US version, the offsets were similar to the Japanese version anyways)
* Lenophis - Battle DTE fixer upper (originally for US version but I ported it to Japanese version)
* Team dCode - for making the Bigram Analysis tool

Credits (FFII):
* Chaos Rush
* Square Enix - for making this game and remaking this game
* NeoDemiforce - for translating this game in 1998
* HackMew - for making Free Space Finder
* whoever made TileMolester
* whoever made TileMolester Alternate
* Vanya - stat name suggestions
* Rodimus Primal - intro text and general support
* vivify93 - formatting inspiration, as well as some item name suggestions
* SpiderDave - B-button dash

Credits (FFIII):
* Chaos Rush
* Team dCode - for making the Bigram Analysis tool (https://www.dcode.fr/bigrams)
* Square Enix - for making the original game and remaking it
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: svenge on June 21, 2019, 03:52:03 am
Looks good.  I'll put it on my NES Classic and give it a whirl.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 21, 2019, 08:24:26 am
I can’t believe how quickly you pulled this off. Plenty of people are going to be very happy!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 21, 2019, 08:51:14 am
I can’t believe how quickly you pulled this off. Plenty of people are going to be very happy!
I still had all of my hacking notes on FF3 and the source code of my text editor from 2016 which also easily let me look at the scripts of both the old version and the Japanese script side-by-side, so most of the hard stuff was already done :) Was able to pretty much start text editing right away and didn’t have to waste time coding a text editor or waste hours doing ASM hacking. (I did do some extra ASM work though, there’s one small tile refresh glitch that’s fixed in this that wasn’t in the old version - the glitch originally occurred due to an expansion of menu sizes in-battle)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 21, 2019, 09:44:25 am
Wow! You got this done so quickly! I would love to give this a try once I get some spare time to play it. If someone did want to add a B Button dash, what's holding it back from being added? Just curious.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: ianrace on June 21, 2019, 10:41:05 am
I am definitely looking forward to trying this out. However, I can see a gramatic error in your fourth screenshot.

It should read "Mountains that surround these lands are ruled by..."
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 21, 2019, 10:59:06 am
Wow! You got this done so quickly! I would love to give this a try once I get some spare time to play it. If someone did want to add a B Button dash, what's holding it back from being added? Just curious.
There’s not enough bytes of free space in the data bank that the walking routine is located in. I’m not on my PC right now so I can’t check exactly, but I need at least like around 10 to account for disabling the dash if you have a following NPC character, and the data bank doesn’t even have 5 bytes of free space lol (its the last bank of the ROM).. It was doable in the MMC5 version because some data was freed up, but I don’t have notes on what data exactly, I just know that the offset I did it in the old version wasn’t free space to begin with. Until I can verify whether or not it’s used or unused data, it’ll have to stay out for now.

But I haven’t entirely given up on it though, just need to free up some space in the last ROM bank.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: star_scream1646 on June 21, 2019, 11:03:13 am
That was fast! A few things I wanted to add

I know you mentioned how you could not include the B-running feature, but I wanted to try adding this hack (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/) which adds it to the original Japanese version in order to also have it with the original translation. The game booted up fine with no problems, however, I don't know if the two patches together break something else later in the game or when you meet the first NPC. Since I only had enough time to get the jobs from the wind crystal. Since I have midterms and a ton of homework I won't be able to really try this out now, but I did want to report the first bug. When using the South Wind Item I got this
(https://i.imgur.com/QVOj3Vwm.png) 

I thought it could have been because of the two patches, but when I used your translation alone I got the same result.

Thank you for making this new translation Chaos Rush!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 21, 2019, 11:19:29 am
That was fast! A few things I wanted to add

I know you mentioned how you could not include the B-running feature, but I wanted to try adding this hack (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/) which adds it to the original Japanese version in order to also have it with the original translation. The game booted up fine with no problems, however, I don't know if the two patches together break something else later in the game or when you meet the first NPC. Since I only had enough time to get the jobs from the wind crystal. Since I have midterms and a ton of homework I won't be able to really try this out now, but I did want to report the first bug. When using the South Wind Item I got this
(https://i.imgur.com/QVOj3Vwm.png) 

I thought it could have been because of the two patches, but when I used your translation alone I got the same result.

Thank you for making this new translation Chaos Rush!
Huh, I had no idea that patch existed. If it works with the original, then it’ll work with this.

One thing though, in the old 1mb version, the way I implemented it accounted for disabling it if you had a partner character with you. The ad0220 translation didn’t account for this and caused weird glitches when running with a partner character. As for that hack, I don’t know if it’ll account for that either.

Thanks for pointing out the typo! I must say there’s a reason why I haven’t submitted the project to the main site yet, I’m gonna wait and see until more typos are found before pushing out v1.1. I haven’t done a play through of the whole game, just various parts from save files I have.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Vanya on June 21, 2019, 11:24:45 am
While I honestly don't care about hardware compatibility myself, I do love having a cleaner version of the translation available.
Fingers crossed for the dash feature!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: svenge on June 22, 2019, 03:14:59 am
One suggestion I have is to have a colon follow the word "Found" when opening a chest, so that it reads "Found: ITEMNAME" instead of "Found ITEMNAME". 

The reason that I bring it up is while the current format looks fine for items that have a pictograph at the beginning of the name (e.g. Potion), it looks really awkward for items that don't have one (e.g. Leather Shield) as there's a gap of two spaces between "Found" and "Leather Shield".
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 22, 2019, 08:26:16 am
clicks 'notify'
BAM.

Very excited for this. It's time FF3 gets its 'definitive' translation.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Autumn on June 22, 2019, 01:42:13 pm
I've played this up to the Tower of Owen thus far. In addition to the "South Winnd" thing that was reported earlier, the only other thing I ran into was this when talking to the elder after getting the Wind jobs.

(https://i.imgur.com/K9E7Zp5.png)

Do note, I am also using these patches: B-Button Dash (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), Job System Improvement (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), and Final Fantasy III Redux (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2805/). I have found no other oddities outside of this and the "Winnd" one.

So far so good! Thanks for continuing to work on this game!  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: star_scream1646 on June 22, 2019, 02:04:36 pm
Hey Chaos!

Done with homework and my midterm is not until Tuesday, should be studying...but wanted to try the current patch from scratch again. A few more things I found.

(https://i.imgur.com/IGoRBsll.png) 
I think this should be "Tomak, a village Elder"

(https://i.imgur.com/KnPZMb1l.png)
Don't know if you meant to put Storage , but maybe house or shed would work best.

and last what I had called a bug before I meant to say typo, but it seems to actually be a bug. When selecting an item in battle with a long name it causes either the second to last character or the last character to repeat.

(https://i.imgur.com/OFOcRf4l.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/H7vLxadl.png)
Since the "s" in Eye Drops does not fit, this happens
(https://i.imgur.com/kJB3iNll.png)

I think the character after the ellipsis is what is repeated.

Could anyone one who might be further in the game try an item with a long name to test in a battle to see what character repeats? Please provide a screenshot before using it to see if my hunch might be correct.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 22, 2019, 02:49:02 pm
@star_scream1646 Thanks for the screenshots. The bug regarding the item names having a repeated character has already been fixed for v1.1, just a single byte change. (Put 0xD8 at offset 0x0690CA to fix it)

Thanks for pointing out the typos as well, those will be fixed for next release.

Right now I'm trying to fix an issue that was also present in the Japanese version but not as visible - if a player character's name ends with a space, I'm trying to make it so that it won't look like, "Arc      :hey guys" and have instead show, "Arc:hey guys". This issue was also in the Japanese version but not as visible because whenever a PC talked it just used ambiguous quotation marks, but it could still be seen during certain dialogues when PC names are mentioned. Once I work that out I'll release v1.1.

Currently, the DTE-compressed script takes up 99.97% of the game's original text data area :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: John Enigma on June 22, 2019, 04:24:18 pm
Semi-off topic, but I always wanted to ask if, even with this English translation, it would be possible to disassemble/reverse-engineer the source code of FFIII (FC/NES).

I say this because if everyone remembers, Square-Enix themselves said that they lost the source code of the original game, and we never got to see a PSX, WonderSwan Crystal, or GBA-style remake of it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 22, 2019, 06:26:48 pm
v1.1 is up! https://www.mediafire.com/file/p2lciqq229lec8o/FF3Translation_v1_1.zip/file

The "South Winnd" glitch has been fixed. Here is the full changelog:
v1.1 - June 22nd, 2019
-formatting and text in intro was sligthly adjusted
-fixed minor text display glitch when using items in-battle
-fixed display glitch with Magus and Ninja in the job menu
-some typos fixed
-"Message Speed" changed to "Battle Speed"

Player names that are shorter than 6 characters will no longer display those extra spaces when someone is talking (look at Arc's name):
(https://imgur.com/VBpfmRX.png)

I've played this up to the Tower of Owen thus far. In addition to the "South Winnd" thing that was reported earlier, the only other thing I ran into was this when talking to the elder after getting the Wind jobs.

(https://i.imgur.com/K9E7Zp5.png)

Do note, I am also using these patches: B-Button Dash (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), Job System Improvement (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), and Final Fantasy III Redux (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2805/). I have found no other oddities outside of this and the "Winnd" one.

So far so good! Thanks for continuing to work on this game!  :)
Weird, I'm not getting that on my end:
(https://imgur.com/SC07Alu.png)

Probably one of the patches you're using is interfering with the text data. Try checking around 0x370BC to see if one of the patches you're using uses that area. The offset in v1.0 might differ slightly simply because my tool repacks all the text in the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: star_scream1646 on June 22, 2019, 07:53:52 pm
I've played this up to the Tower of Owen thus far. In addition to the "South Winnd" thing that was reported earlier, the only other thing I ran into was this when talking to the elder after getting the Wind jobs.

(https://i.imgur.com/K9E7Zp5.png)

Do note, I am also using these patches: B-Button Dash (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), Job System Improvement (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3326/), and Final Fantasy III Redux (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2805/). I have found no other oddities outside of this and the "Winnd" one.

So far so good! Thanks for continuing to work on this game!  :)

Whoa, that is strange I did not get that from the bit I played, I have the B-button dash patch so it has to be one of the other two that caused that to happen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Ramdemann on June 22, 2019, 08:48:16 pm
This is great!

This is what I thought it was going to be in the first place.

Sometimes the extra polish can be too much at times, As it was said years ago from a kind guy at The Final Fantasy Compendium, Sometimes simple is just better.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 22, 2019, 10:50:14 pm
Here is the final release of the text editor I developed for FFIII, Onion Text:

https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1226/

(I just updated it to v1.2 so make sure it's updated in the database before downloading)

(https://i.imgur.com/yhJH10w.png)

Most of it was developed in 2016 during my previous attempt at making a translation hack of FF3, some small modifications were made to it again for this new translation (good thing I still had the source code). It will allow you to edit the text in the game and it will reinsert all of the text data in the allotted data area to make efficient use of space - it literally unpacks and repacks all of the extracted text back into the ROM. Hopefully I've provided enough resources and instructions in the link so that people can make their own translations into other languages.

This will be the last version of Onion Text, I won't be updating it any further. Up to this point I've coded exclusively in Java, but since I'm moving stuff over to a new PC and am finding difficulties with running Java programs on it, I think it's about time that I learn C++ lol. With that said this will probably be my last Java-made ROM hacking tool.

This is great!

This is what I thought it was going to be in the first place.

Sometimes the extra polish can be too much at times, As it was said years ago from a kind guy at The Final Fantasy Compendium, Sometimes simple is just better.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thank you, hope you enjoy it!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Whipon on June 23, 2019, 12:14:08 pm
Hello Chaos Rush:

I began to play your translation yesterday.

I think I found a typo, when you talk with Salina's mother the first time you visit Canaan:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZcfStQJ.png)

English is not my native language, so I might be wrong, but "Has fas fallen" seems incorrect to me.

EDIT:
I found another one:

(https://i.imgur.com/p5RilsZ.png)

The name of who is speaking should be Unei.

EDIT 2:
Finished the game and couldn't find any other error.

Thanks a lot for redoing the translation.
Congratulations for your great work ;).

Regards.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 26, 2019, 04:42:59 pm
v1.2 has been submitted to the RHDN page, so it should be up by tomorrow. Changelog for this version is:
-some typos fixed
-"Elder" capitalized in the intro for consistency with NPC's
-optional FFVI font patch added

Here is a screenshot of the OPTIONAL font patch:
(https://imgur.com/bfDjyGp.png)

Thank you to everyone who has pointed out typos.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: 91-MPH on June 26, 2019, 08:27:30 pm
r u sure u don't want to work on a Refurbished version of FFI ChaosRush?
while I do appreciate the work put into FFRestored and Grond's FF, the hacks don't seem to be historically accurate like the work u put into FFII and III.

For example: the logos in the starting screens for FFR and GFF shouldn't be there because the look of the logo is still up for debate back then, and hasn't become established until FFIV.
And the names of the hackers placed in the credits of FFR and GFF kinda ruins the illusion that u're playing an official product.
And although FFR updates the names to their recent localized counterparts, GFF doesn't (at least not completely).

long story short, I would like to play an NES version of FF with an updated script that acts like the real thing (with FFR's bug fixes and improvements as an option), but recently, it's been too much to ask... v_v; v_v; v_v;
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: 91-MPH on June 27, 2019, 02:29:49 am
please do the FF1 version. I think RodimusPrimal already beat u to the punch with FFIV.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 27, 2019, 10:43:22 am
r u sure u don't want to work on a Refurbished version of FFI ChaosRush?
while I do appreciate the work put into FFRestored and Grond's FF, the hacks don't seem to be historically accurate like the work u put into FFII and III.

For example: the logos in the starting screens for FFR and GFF shouldn't be there because the look of the logo is still up for debate back then, and hasn't become established until FFIV.
And the names of the hackers placed in the credits of FFR and GFF kinda ruins the illusion that u're playing an official product.
And although FFR updates the names to their recent localized counterparts, GFF doesn't (at least not completely).

long story short, I would like to play an NES version of FF with an updated script that acts like the real thing (with FFR's bug fixes and improvements as an option), but recently, it's been too much to ask... v_v; v_v; v_v;

I agree, but the modern logo was used in the I+II multicart, so at least there's precedent.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 27, 2019, 12:12:07 pm
r u sure u don't want to work on a Refurbished version of FFI ChaosRush?
while I do appreciate the work put into FFRestored and Grond's FF, the hacks don't seem to be historically accurate like the work u put into FFII and III.

For example: the logos in the starting screens for FFR and GFF shouldn't be there because the look of the logo is still up for debate back then, and hasn't become established until FFIV.
And the names of the hackers placed in the credits of FFR and GFF kinda ruins the illusion that u're playing an official product.
And although FFR updates the names to their recent localized counterparts, GFF doesn't (at least not completely).

long story short, I would like to play an NES version of FF with an updated script that acts like the real thing (with FFR's bug fixes and improvements as an option), but recently, it's been too much to ask... v_v; v_v; v_v;
It’s definitely on my mind. I’m playing through the Japanese version of FF1 right now and despite its bugs it feels like a well-presented product and an important part of gaming history.

The reason why I haven’t done a FF1 project yet is because there are already multiple “definitive FF1” type hacks and while they all lean towards hack rather than translation, from what I can gather both Grond’s FF and FFRestored uses an abridged Dawn of Souls script (which is probably what my FF1 would end up like) so doing FF1 might feel redundant.

But on the other hand, I feel like the aforementioned hacks leaves an inconsistent feel in their presentation when compared with my FF2 and FF3 and I’m someone that’s all about consistency, and I might as well finish the trilogy so that way people have options. So I am considering doing a simple FF1 translation project and simply approach it in the same way that I did FF2 and FF3 - don’t go overboard with changing the menus, keep the presentation similar, use the modern spell/item names, and try and provide a script that’s plain and simple and doesn’t have any baggage. It won’t be a “definitive FF1” since it’ll have all the bugs and unbalanced-ness of the original FF1, but it’ll pave the way for bringing over a working version of an English FF1+2 compilation.

But again, the reason why I started with FF2 and then onto FF3 is because there’s already enough ways people can experience FF1 with an updated script. There’s other things I want to look into as well, such as hacking in a VWF into FF4’s overworld so that the SNES trilogy can all have a VWF. I can say that even if I do FF4 stuff, I will probably never even touch FF5 or FF6 because the existing patches (FFV GBA script port and FFVI Woolsey Uncensored) are great and I don’t want to compete with other projects and go into “my translation is the true original meaning!!!!1!” territory and worried that even doing anything with FF4 will put me in that territory.

As for FF4 though, the best option is Namingway Edition and a couple years ago I played through about 2/3 of it and it was great and it’s a great way to play a fixed-up version of the original US “Final Fantasy II” release, and Rodimus Primal has done a fantastic job with the project. Unfortunately there’s still some baggage left from being based off the US version, and the script is limited by space which I feel like doesn’t have to be an issue with SNES games, plus I want to implement a VWF in the overworld text box lol.

Sorry for this wall of text, just explaining my thoughts on potential projects. Even though a few pages ago I said I’ve lost interest, well I’ve kinda regained interest lol because I enjoy programming and coding my own tools. I had a couple weeks of free time hence why I was able to pump out a fixed version of FF3 really quickly but I’m gonna get busy again soon (but not as busy as these past few years I think).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Rodimus Primal on June 27, 2019, 12:33:21 pm
It’s definitely on my mind. I’m playing through the Japanese version of FF1 right now and despite its bugs it feels like a well-presented product and an important part of gaming history.

The reason why I haven’t done a FF1 project yet is because there are already multiple “definitive FF1” type hacks and while they all lean towards hack rather than translation, from what I can gather both Grond’s FF and FFRestored uses an abridged Dawn of Souls script (which is probably what my FF1 would end up like) so doing FF1 might feel redundant.

But on the other hand, I feel like the aforementioned hacks leaves an inconsistent feel in their presentation when compared with my FF2 and FF3 and I’m someone that’s all about consistency, and I might as well finish the trilogy so that way people have options. So I am considering doing a simple FF1 translation project and simply approach it in the same way that I did FF2 and FF3 - don’t go overboard with changing the menus, keep the presentation similar, use the modern spell/item names, and try and provide a script that’s plain and simple and doesn’t have any baggage. It won’t be a “definitive FF1” since it’ll have all the bugs and unbalanced-ness of the original FF1, but it’ll pave the way for bringing over a working version of an English FF1+2 compilation.

But again, the reason why I started with FF2 and then onto FF3 is because there’s already enough ways people can experience FF1 with an updated script. There’s other things I want to look into as well, such as hacking in a VWF into FF4’s overworld so that the SNES trilogy can all have a VWF. I can say that even if I do FF4 stuff, I will probably never even touch FF5 or FF6 because the existing patches (FFV GBA script port and FFVI Woolsey Uncensored) are great and I don’t want to compete with other projects and go into “my translation is the true original meaning!!!!1!” territory and worried that even doing anything with FF4 will put me in that territory.

As for FF4 though, the best option is Namingway Edition and a couple years ago I played through about 2/3 of it and it was great and it’s a great way to play a fixed-up version of the original US “Final Fantasy II” release, and Rodimus Primal has done a fantastic job with the project. Unfortunately there’s still some baggage left from being based off the US version, and the script is limited by space which I feel like doesn’t have to be an issue with SNES games, plus I want to implement a VWF in the overworld text box lol.

Sorry for this wall of text, just explaining my thoughts on potential projects. Even though a few pages ago I said I’ve lost interest, well I’ve kinda regained interest lol because I enjoy programming and coding my own tools. I had a couple weeks of free time hence why I was able to pump out a fixed version of FF3 really quickly but I’m gonna get busy again soon (but not as busy as these past few years I think).

I do recommend replaying Namingway Edition since I recently overhauled a LOT of the script. If I had my way I would port it over to the Super Famicom ROM, add in the B Button Dash, and then look at expanding other parts of it with the limitations I had (spell and monster names especially). I prefer the older font for the classic games but options are always nice. Thinner fonts are harder for me to read.

As for FFI, I too would love a cleaner update to it as FFRestored and Grond's FF changed too much from the original. Things like expanding the battle window, a B Button dash, longer character names, setting the Battle Speed higher by default, fixing certain bugs (Tent and Cabin saving before restoring your MP for example), and the like are all great additions and are worth having in ANY Final Fantasy I project.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 27, 2019, 12:49:50 pm
I do recommend replaying Namingway Edition since I recently overhauled a LOT of the script. If I had my way I would port it over to the Super Famicom ROM, add in the B Button Dash, and then look at expanding other parts of it with the limitations I had (spell and monster names especially). I prefer the older font for the classic games but options are always nice. Thinner fonts are harder for me to read.

As for FFI, I too would love a cleaner update to it as FFRestored and Grond's FF changed too much from the original. Things like expanding the battle window, a B Button dash, longer character names, setting the Battle Speed higher by default, fixing certain bugs (Tent and Cabin saving before restoring your MP for example), and the like are all great additions and are worth having in ANY Final Fantasy I project.
Thanks for your input, Rodimus Primal. I’m definitely leaning towards seeing what I can do for FF1 as the poll shows that people apparently want to see that too. I’ve already started work on a new text editor coded in C# (this time I plan on adding support for the entire Famicom/NES trilogy so I can push out updates easier - I also want to go back and update my FF2 a little bit since my coding skills are better now)

I’m playing through the first six FF’s in Japanese right now in their original versions (still on FF1 though lol) so maybe in the future after I beat FF4 I can provide thoughts on it and maybe we could bring over the Namingway script over to the original SFC version + implement a VWF. But for now I’m leaning towards doing a FF1 project and polishing up my FF2 project a little bit more.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: 91-MPH on June 27, 2019, 01:23:24 pm
Heaven Piercing Man, the reason why the modern logo is used in the 1 & 2 Multicart is because that product was released in 1994; just 3 years after the release of FF4.

Just some food for thought.

June 27, 2019, 01:26:56 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Blasphemy RodimusPrimal!!!

We do not call them Tents and Cabins, they are called Sleeping Bags and Tents respectively.
XD XD XD
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Cavery210 on June 27, 2019, 02:16:42 pm
A user on GameFAQs named x_loto did a fully translated script for FF1 a while back. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/nes/522595-final-fantasy/faqs/49423

It's a bit rough around the edges, but it could help you a lot. He also did a translated script for the first 3 Dragon Quest games that ChickenKnife used as a basis for his Delocalized editions.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 27, 2019, 02:40:21 pm
Heaven Piercing Man, the reason why the modern logo is used in the 1 & 2 Multicart is because that product was released in 1994; just 3 years after the release of FF4.

Just some food for thought.

Oh I know, but I'm looking at it from the "NES/FC as a whole" perspective, not bound by the release dates. We are already living in an alternate reality with these translation hacks anyway :p
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: svenge on June 27, 2019, 09:21:29 pm
That's an interesting perspective, but I think a better one would be summed up as "what could have been if the time/resources were available back then". 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: John Enigma on June 27, 2019, 09:40:38 pm
My question is if it's worth doing a mega project like Final Fantasy Restored or Grond's FF for Final Fantasy III (and if it's worth it, Final Fantasy II) where all the bug fixes are fixed, there's Quality of Life hacks, and it there's anything else to actually make this game beginner-friendly but challenging for everybody.

Also, someone here mentioned Final Fantasy I * II FC. What can be done about that multicast? I kept having ideas in the past where if it was feasible to port Final Fantasy Restored to its FF1 half, and Chaos Rush's FFII translation to its other half. I think nobody has said anything about this.

Also, @Chaos Rush, I wanted to ask again. Do you think it's possible that, even with your translation, FFIII can be disassembled and reverse-engineered for the purpose of reconstructing its source code and recompiling it? I may not have knowledge on this, but at least I wanted to get this question off my chest.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 27, 2019, 09:57:57 pm
My question is if it's worth doing a mega project like Final Fantasy Restored or Grond's FF for Final Fantasy III (and if it's worth it, Final Fantasy II) where all the bug fixes are fixed, there's Quality of Life hacks, and it there's anything else to actually make this game beginner-friendly but challenging for everybody.

Also, someone here mentioned Final Fantasy I * II FC. What can be done about that multicast? I kept having ideas in the past where if it was feasible to port Final Fantasy Restored to its FF1 half, and Chaos Rush's FFII translation to its other half. I think nobody has said anything about this.

Also, @Chaos Rush, I wanted to ask again. Do you think it's possible that, even with your translation, FFIII can be disassembled and reverse-engineered for the purpose of reconstructing its source code and recompiling it? I may not have knowledge on this, but at least I wanted to get this question off my chest.
On the topic of gameplay enhancements, I’m not interested in making one myself but I think it would be cool to see one, and I know that several for FF3 already exist.

As for the FF1+2 multicart, I have ideas for that but first I want to polish up my FF2 a bit more because I think I can optimize free space better now than I could two years ago. And also it depends on if I can get FF1 done. I haven’t fully committed to it yet, but I think if I do FF1 I’ll work on translating the FF1 portion of the multicart simultaneously with standalone FF1 - a quick look at both shows that the data offsets for the FF1 portion seem to be exactly the same.

As for a disassembly, well yeah of course it’s possible - any game ever can be disassembled but it’s not a matter of whether or not it’s possible but whether or not someone wants to do it. I don’t have any plans to work on one nor would I know where to start - I’m not exactly a “advanced NES hacker” I’m just someone who previously hacked Pokémon games with a passive interest in computer science, thus that was more than enough basic ASM knowledge to do stuff like changing menu coordinates in a NES game. But an entire disassembly, that’s quite a tall order lol. Of course it would be cool to see a 16-bit FF3 and I’ve thought about someday in the far far future either making a GBA homebrew or GameMaker recreation of the first cave in FF3 as a “proof of concept” (but not any more than that, don’t want to upset Square Enix’s lawyers)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: John Enigma on June 27, 2019, 10:03:29 pm
A'ight.

Thanks for the fast response.

I can't wait to try out your FFIII NES translation hack.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: star_scream1646 on June 27, 2019, 11:27:02 pm
r u sure u don't want to work on a Refurbished version of FFI ChaosRush?
while I do appreciate the work put into FFRestored and Grond's FF, the hacks don't seem to be historically accurate like the work u put into FFII and III.

For example: the logos in the starting screens for FFR and GFF shouldn't be there because the look of the logo is still up for debate back then, and hasn't become established until FFIV.
And the names of the hackers placed in the credits of FFR and GFF kinda ruins the illusion that u're playing an official product.
And although FFR updates the names to their recent localized counterparts, GFF doesn't (at least not completely).

long story short, I would like to play an NES version of FF with an updated script that acts like the real thing (with FFR's bug fixes and improvements as an option), but recently, it's been too much to ask... v_v; v_v; v_v;

I've played FFRestored and I find it my preferred way to play the original, but only after adding Rodimus Primal's Final Fantasy Font Options patch and using FF Hackster to try and re-add the peninsula of power back. But, never did like the title logo added in that hack since as you mentioned it did not originate until FFIV or how FFRestored added extra credits to the bridge crossing scene since it does ruin the illusion. As for the menus it may not look vanilla, but I like to think of those graphical changes as being done for the same reasons as the ones done in Dragon Warrior 1 in regards to the over world sprites.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: 91-MPH on June 27, 2019, 11:36:45 pm
I know u said you'll be more focused on the famicom rom; but if u do get to FF1, you could use The Collector's ROM hack as a template.

Link: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/762/

It was meant to be an attempt to restore the game to it's original form; names, terminologies and all; but the hack was before the release of FFOrigins.

June 28, 2019, 01:37:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
in case anyone's interested, I have some cover art for FFII and III, in case they need an image to label their game on an NES emulator.

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadq1p-53e69d75-51ce-4a12-8bd5-5284fc19b3bc.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_542,q_75,strp/final_fantasy_ii_nes_usa_cover_art_by_91_mph_ddadq1p-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZmI0NDNjNGYtNTRkZi00YjUzLTllMjctNjMyYTBhZjM5NTY5XC9kZGFkcTFwLTUzZTY5ZDc1LTUxY2UtNGExMi04YmQ1LTUyODRmYzE5YjNiYy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.pCqrP7CZATRSQNowM1Yk3OD4ZIiDjM7vYTnlu1Ck0_E)

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadqb2-077ba9e5-e229-41fe-862c-d03c78f2d5f7.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_542,q_75,strp/final_fantasy_iii_nes_usa_cover_art_by_91_mph_ddadqb2-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZmI0NDNjNGYtNTRkZi00YjUzLTllMjctNjMyYTBhZjM5NTY5XC9kZGFkcWIyLTA3N2JhOWU1LWUyMjktNDFmZS04NjJjLWQwM2M3OGYyZDVmNy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.gFMRytrJJ5wtbN34KDc9vS5ZfQJqeOCPgxU_EzTQsfY)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: DannyPlaysSomeGames on June 28, 2019, 09:34:45 am
I know u said you'll be more focused on the famicom rom; but if u do get to FF1, you could use The Collector's ROM hack as a template.

Link: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/762/

It was meant to be an attempt to restore the game to it's original form; names, terminologies and all; but the hack was before the release of FFOrigins.

June 28, 2019, 01:37:56 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
in case anyone's interested, I have some cover art for FFII and III, in case they need an image to label their game on an NES emulator.

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadq1p-53e69d75-51ce-4a12-8bd5-5284fc19b3bc.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_542,q_75,strp/final_fantasy_ii_nes_usa_cover_art_by_91_mph_ddadq1p-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZmI0NDNjNGYtNTRkZi00YjUzLTllMjctNjMyYTBhZjM5NTY5XC9kZGFkcTFwLTUzZTY5ZDc1LTUxY2UtNGExMi04YmQ1LTUyODRmYzE5YjNiYy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.pCqrP7CZATRSQNowM1Yk3OD4ZIiDjM7vYTnlu1Ck0_E)

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadqb2-077ba9e5-e229-41fe-862c-d03c78f2d5f7.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_542,q_75,strp/final_fantasy_iii_nes_usa_cover_art_by_91_mph_ddadqb2-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NTQyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvZmI0NDNjNGYtNTRkZi00YjUzLTllMjctNjMyYTBhZjM5NTY5XC9kZGFkcWIyLTA3N2JhOWU1LWUyMjktNDFmZS04NjJjLWQwM2M3OGYyZDVmNy5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.gFMRytrJJ5wtbN34KDc9vS5ZfQJqeOCPgxU_EzTQsfY)
Actually, just to point out, if you're gonna hack the title screen, you might as well use the ones on the cover boxes here, either that, or the original FF boxart (which is somewhat similar to the FF4 rendition but not really). IMO if you want to go full purist I'd say FF1 but I honestly prefer tbe stylized ones in the FF2/3 boxart. Buy hey, that's if you want to hack them, obviously. You didn't hack the FF3 one iirc (not sure about FF2, because there is a title screen hack of FF2 so I'm unsure), so I'm guessing you're not doing the same for FF1. Just throwing ideas, as usual.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Bregalad on June 28, 2019, 10:09:55 am
Quote
What project would you like to see in the future?
Most instances of Final Fantasy games have more than 3 translations available already and that's too much IMO. But I have to admit that FF1 was never re-translated from scratch so it'd be interesting to see. FF4 has already TOO MUCH translations and minor text-related addendum hacks.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 28, 2019, 10:33:34 am
Actually, just to point out, if you're gonna hack the title screen, you might as well use the ones on the cover boxes here, either that, or the original FF boxart (which is somewhat similar to the FF4 rendition but not really). IMO if you want to go full purist I'd say FF1 but I honestly prefer tbe stylized ones in the FF2/3 boxart. Buy hey, that's if you want to hack them, obviously. You didn't hack the FF3 one iirc (not sure about FF2, because there is a title screen hack of FF2 so I'm unsure), so I'm guessing you're not doing the same for FF1. Just throwing ideas, as usual.
You’re confusing me with the person you replied to  ;)

None of my projects have a hacked title screen. I like to have things presented how they originally were.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: 91-MPH on June 28, 2019, 02:32:04 pm
Actually, just to point out, if you're gonna hack the title screen, you might as well use the ones on the cover boxes here, either that, or the original FF boxart (which is somewhat similar to the FF4 rendition but not really). IMO if you want to go full purist I'd say FF1 but I honestly prefer tbe stylized ones in the FF2/3 boxart. Buy hey, that's if you want to hack them, obviously. You didn't hack the FF3 one iirc (not sure about FF2, because there is a title screen hack of FF2 so I'm unsure), so I'm guessing you're not doing the same for FF1. Just throwing ideas, as usual.

Yes, the logo for the cover of FFI is "somewhat similar to the FF4 rendition, but not really", but at least it was released before the logos of FF4 & FF6 got that "localized" treatment.

Which is why I think giving FFI new box art isn't necessary.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 29, 2019, 10:57:58 pm
I frequently recommend your FFII and III translations as the definitive versions of each, but the definitive version of FFI simply doesn’t exist yet. If you complete the trilogy, that would be amazing. Also excited at the prospect of you translating FFIV for all the same reasons you listed. Really glad you’ve returned to give us more great translations to play for years to come, and more importantly that you’re enjoying it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 30, 2019, 03:16:55 am
Yes, the logo for the cover of FFI is "somewhat similar to the FF4 rendition, but not really", but at least it was released before the logos of FF4 & FF6 got that "localized" treatment.

Which is why I think giving FFI new box art isn't necessary.

I'd love to have this as a repro cart, though
https://imgur.com/a/SVgYJPz
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: svenge on June 30, 2019, 03:52:59 am
I don't really care for the concept of having FF1's circa-2002 logo (originally from the Final Fantasy Origins PS1 release) juxtaposed with its 1987 Famicom box art, at least in the context of a NES repro cartridge label.

That's not to say that I would mind combining multiple pieces of art from the orignal release's era (like the English-language logo (https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/box/7/2/4/14724_side.jpg) found on the side of the Famicom version's box) on such a label, though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 30, 2019, 04:42:05 am
I frequently recommend your FFII and III translations as the definitive versions of each, but the definitive version of FFI simply doesn’t exist yet. If you complete the trilogy, that would be amazing. Also excited at the prospect of you translating FFIV for all the same reasons you listed. Really glad you’ve returned to give us more great translations to play for years to come, and more importantly that you’re enjoying it.
Well, I don't think my FF1 translation would become the "definitive" FF1, since it's just the Japanese version in English with all the original bugs and inbalancedness intact and such. It probably wouldn't be much better than the actual US FF1.

But anyways, here's a screenshot of a new text editor I'm working on. I plan on having it support the entire FF NES trilogy.

(https://imgur.com/aRzo9S7.png)

Once I finish coding this tool, my FF1 translation will begin :) Yes I'm committing to doing it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on June 30, 2019, 06:07:38 am
I frequently recommend your FFII and III translations as the definitive versions of each, but the definitive version of FFI simply doesn’t exist yet. If you complete the trilogy, that would be amazing. Also excited at the prospect of you translating FFIV for all the same reasons you listed. Really glad you’ve returned to give us more great translations to play for years to come, and more importantly that you’re enjoying it.

To be fair, I'm not sure how NES FFI, in any form or shape, can be recommended to people as the 'definitive' Final Fantasy I, with the PS1 and PSP remakes around. I played the GBA version, PSP version, and finished the PS1 version of FF1 a few weeks ago, yet I've never even considered touching the NES one. All the others (I prefer PS1 over the others because of presentation and translation) seem much better. All this goes for FFII too.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 30, 2019, 07:55:26 am
To be fair, I'm not sure how NES FFI, in any form or shape, can be recommended to people as the 'definitive' Final Fantasy I, with the PS1 and PSP remakes around. I played the GBA version, PSP version, and finished the PS1 version of FF1 a few weeks ago, yet I've never even considered touching the NES one. All the others (I prefer PS1 over the others because of presentation and translation) seem much better. All this goes for FFII too.

I agree with you. I was referring to playing the original games in their most accurate original form, not the most fun or accessible way to play.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: John Enigma on June 30, 2019, 09:20:17 am
I frequently recommend your FFII and III translations as the definitive versions of each, but the definitive version of FFI simply doesn’t exist yet. If you complete the trilogy, that would be amazing. Also excited at the prospect of you translating FFIV for all the same reasons you listed. Really glad you’ve returned to give us more great translations to play for years to come, and more importantly that you’re enjoying it.
I won't have any problems playing his translation, I just wish that his translation was also made as an addendum for either FFRestored or Grond's FF.

Because those two hacks are what I consider the definitive Final Fantasy I game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Chaos Rush on June 30, 2019, 11:17:16 am
To be fair, I'm not sure how NES FFI, in any form or shape, can be recommended to people as the 'definitive' Final Fantasy I, with the PS1 and PSP remakes around. I played the GBA version, PSP version, and finished the PS1 version of FF1 a few weeks ago, yet I've never even considered touching the NES one. All the others (I prefer PS1 over the others because of presentation and translation) seem much better. All this goes for FFII too.
Personally when playing through a series for the first time, I like to play a game in its original form rather than a remake so than I can see how its gameplay, graphics, and presentation evolved. Going from GBA/PSP FF2 to NES FF3 is a little strange to me, because then FF3 isn’t really much of an upgrade. Likewise going from DS FF4 to SNES FF5 is just as strange to me. Of course, once I’ve beaten a game in its original form then I’ll play the remake so I can appreciate the updates it offers.

For example, going from NES FF1 to NES FF2 you get to see how FF2 improved on these areas:
* improved battle HUD with new sliding menu
* expanded battle backgrounds a teeny tiny bit
* final boss actually has its own music
* an improved text engine with line scrolling within text boxes
* a much more character-driven story with twice the dialogue

Sure, the remake versions of FF1 already offer all of that, but then going from remake FF1 to remake FF2, FF2 suddenly upgrades a lot less to FF1.

Likewise, going from NES FF2 to NES FF3 you get:
* the classic “big blue bar at bottom” battle HUD is established for the first time
* improvements to battle HUD in general, such as the ability to view your entire inventory
* auto-targeting is added
* bosses now have boss music too, not just final boss
* major improvements to menus all-around, the original FF3 established the basic menu layout used from FF3-FF9

Again, you lose all these things when going from remake FF2 to either version of FF3, since then FF2 would already have all of these improvements, making FF3 suddenly offer a lot less that’s new.

I won't have any problems playing his translation, I just wish that his translation was also made as an addendum for either FFRestored or Grond's FF.

Because those two hacks are what I consider the definitive Final Fantasy I game.
I think you’d be missing the point of doing a FF1 translation, to be honest. Sounds like what you’re looking for is a title screen patch for FFR or GFF.

The whole point of translating the Famicom version of FF1 is so that people who want to play the original game with all of its original quirks intact can play it as it is. My projects aren’t “definitive edition” hacks, they’re just plain and simple translations with no gameplay alterations whatsoever. I would have no idea what kind of “addendum” I would do to a complete hack like FFR or GFF.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: John Enigma on June 30, 2019, 11:19:43 am
I think you’d be missing the point of doing a FF1 translation, to be honest. Sounds like what you’re looking for is a title screen patch for FFR or GFF.

The whole point of translating the Famicom version of FF1 is so that people who want to play the original game with all of its original quirks intact can play it as it is. My projects aren’t “definitive edition” hacks, they’re just plain and simple translations with no gameplay alterations whatsoever. I would have no idea what kind of “addendum” I would do to a complete hack like FFR or GFF.
You're right. Sorry.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Neon Streetlight on June 30, 2019, 03:15:58 pm
Personally when playing through a series for the first time, I like to play a game in its original form rather than a remake so than I can see how its gameplay, graphics, and presentation evolved. Going from GBA/PSP FF2 to NES FF3 is a little strange to me, because then FF3 isn’t really much of an upgrade. Likewise going from DS FF4 to SNES FF5 is just as strange to me. Of course, once I’ve beaten a game in its original form then I’ll play the remake so I can appreciate the updates it offers.

For example, going from NES FF1 to NES FF2 you get to see how FF2 improved on these areas:
* improved battle HUD with new sliding menu
* expanded battle backgrounds a teeny tiny bit
* final boss actually has its own music
* an improved text engine with line scrolling within text boxes
* a much more character-driven story with twice the dialogue

Sure, the remake versions of FF1 already offer all of that, but then going from remake FF1 to remake FF2, FF2 suddenly upgrades a lot less to FF1.

Likewise, going from NES FF2 to NES FF3 you get:
* the classic “big blue bar at bottom” battle HUD is established for the first time
* improvements to battle HUD in general, such as the ability to view your entire inventory
* auto-targeting is added
* bosses now have boss music too, not just final boss
* major improvements to menus all-around, the original FF3 established the basic menu layout used from FF3-FF9

Again, you lose all these things when going from remake FF2 to either version of FF3, since then FF2 would already have all of these improvements, making FF3 suddenly offer a lot less that’s new.
I think you’d be missing the point of doing a FF1 translation, to be honest. Sounds like what you’re looking for is a title screen patch for FFR or GFF.

The whole point of translating the Famicom version of FF1 is so that people who want to play the original game with all of its original quirks intact can play it as it is. My projects aren’t “definitive edition” hacks, they’re just plain and simple translations with no gameplay alterations whatsoever. I would have no idea what kind of “addendum” I would do to a complete hack like FFR or GFF.

I completely agree. I enjoy playing through the originals partially as a walk through history. Seeing the evolution and additions is what helps me appreciate each entry. I think one of the reasons people bash FFII all the time is that they are already accustomed to nearly everything new it brought to the series. So for me, the definitive editions of these games are the purest versions that capture all of the contributions in their original form.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy III Translation (EN) - Take Two!
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on June 30, 2019, 06:09:51 pm
The thing is, vanilla US FF1 is pretty much unplayable by modern standards. The amount of bugs, the script style that looks straight out of a text-only "GO NORTH" RPG, 4 letters for everything, the word squishing that looks like an esoteric programming language, the unintuitive GUI... That's why mods like Restored and Grond are considered "definitive" from a certain POV. Of course there's merit on wanting the vanilla game, because after all it IS the vanilla game. Preservation and all that.


Taking all that into account, there are 3 possibilities I can see:
1.- a simple retranslation for the vanilla US ROM
2.- a retranslation + some conservative QOL enhancements that would have been made in a more thorough localization, like extended menu entries, nothing much different than what you or Square itself would do with a Japanese ROM to accomodate an English script, maybe a couple of critical bugfixes too (the patches are already out there, right?). For example, official vanilla FF6US has 6 letters for spell names, compared to 4 in FF6J.
3.- an optional patch for Restored/Grond that ports the redone script to it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 03, 2019, 06:10:10 pm
I've began preliminary work on Final Fantasy. Not much to show right now, but I'm approaching this exactly the same way that I approached FF2 and FF3. Also, I got single-spaced line breaks working on the original Japanese ROM.

Here's some screenshots:
(https://imgur.com/gc4xWiK.png) (https://imgur.com/EOVr3aS.png) (https://imgur.com/8bxDDwv.png)
I want to make it clear that this is NOT the US ROM, this is a translation of the original Japanese ROM.

I've also renamed this topic to be a general thread for my translations of the trilogy, as opposed to just FF3.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 03, 2019, 06:29:34 pm
PRAISE DE SLUFFY!!!

\o/ \o/ \o/
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 03, 2019, 06:37:24 pm
You said you weren't going to rebalance the game, but would you consider bugfixes and the b-button dash like you did for FFII? Or at least making it compatible with Final Fantasy Restored?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 03, 2019, 06:56:44 pm
You said you weren't going to rebalance the game, but would you consider bugfixes and the b-button dash like you did for FFII? Or at least making it compatible with Final Fantasy Restored?
Of course I’ll consider bug fixes, I would like to include them as optional patches (I know that right now the FF2 translation has the b-button dash by default but I’m going to make it optional in a future update because some people have requested that I remove it for authenticity). There’s a boundary between translation and hack, and I don’t want to cross over that boundary hence why I think anything that changes non-text behavior of the original game needs to be optional.

As I’ve said before, I’m not sure what I could do for Final Fantasy Restored (aside from using the new script I’m working on) because that’s already a complete finished project by someone else. Do people have issues with the script in that? I’ve added support for both Japanese FF1 and US FF1 in my new text editor I’m working on, so maybe once I’m finished with my script it might be possible to import it into FFR.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cavery210 on July 03, 2019, 07:31:20 pm
Will Garland still threaten to knock you down?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 03, 2019, 07:39:23 pm
Will Garland still threaten to knock you down?
Yes, him, Garland, will knock you all down!!

Just like the spoony bard, there's just some things you don't mess with.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Mirage on July 03, 2019, 09:16:34 pm
Hey, Chaos Rush, I've played your retranslation of FFIII up to Tozus so far, and I'm happy to report that I have found only one minor bug in that time. The bug in question is that the in-battle message for when an enemy wakes up seems to be bugged, as shown on the below screenshot.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ag91/NullInternet/Final%20Fantasy%20III%202019%20Retranslation/Wakebug_zpsi36hyrvj.png)
I know you're probably focused on translation FFI at the moment, but could you please take the time to look into this bug? I like your retranslation so far, and so I want to see it become even better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 03, 2019, 10:56:39 pm
Well, the bard WAS spoony and Garland actually threatened to kick them all around which is pretty much the same :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 04, 2019, 01:20:08 am
Hmm......playing FF games in their original format? I once tried that, but there's no adequate translation for FF4, so I just went for the remakes. If you decide to tackle FF4 SFC after you're done with FFI though, then I don't see the harm in witnessing such an evolution. ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 04, 2019, 01:20:57 pm
Hmm......playing FF games in their original format? I once tried that, but there's no adequate translation for FF4, so I just went for the remakes. If you decide to tackle FF4 SFC after you're done with FFI though, then I don't see the harm in witnessing such an evolution. ;)

The Namingway Edition is a pretty adequate translation of FFIV, cause it borrows names, terminologies and quotes from the remakes.

You could give that a try.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 04, 2019, 01:25:48 pm
The Namingway Edition is a pretty adequate translation of FFIV, cause it borrows names and terminologies from the remakes.

You could give that a try.

I'd say it's the best translation, since the DS translation is overly flowery and the PSP one is based on the faulty GBA version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 04, 2019, 05:24:59 pm
Well, I just took another look at Namingway, and sure enough, it does indeed update the script as a whole. I thought it only tweaked the names/items to be consistent with the rest of the series. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 04, 2019, 08:36:37 pm
If you're patching the Japanese version, are you going to include any of the graphical improvements made to the US version?

https://tcrf.net/Final_Fantasy
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 04, 2019, 11:43:06 pm
If you're patching the Japanese version, are you going to include any of the graphical improvements made to the US version?

https://tcrf.net/Final_Fantasy

Which changes do you consider improvements? Most of changes were censoring changes. I’d prefer leaving it alone.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 04, 2019, 11:57:45 pm
Which changes do you consider improvements? Most of changes were censoring changes. I’d prefer leaving it alone.

Probably sprites like the Ninja casting a spell, the Master's hair, the White Mage and Fighter injured, and the White Wizard's head. I'm also curious if you were going to use the weapon icons as well, just used in reverse of how FFI US did it (Wooden (nunchuck icon).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 04, 2019, 11:58:44 pm
Which changes do you consider improvements? Most of changes were censoring changes. I’d prefer leaving it alone.

If you would actually read the article, many errors in sprites, such as the White Wizard, were fixed.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 05, 2019, 01:03:28 am
thanks to svenge for providing the logo, i take back what i said about the box art for FFI.

That, and the reason why i'm doing this is because the official box art still references crystals as orbs. XP

here's the original in it's more polished look:

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddaxumr-44e0cba4-3336-4499-a1ed-2147a26bafe6.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ZiNDQzYzRmLTU0ZGYtNGI1My05ZTI3LTYzMmEwYWYzOTU2OVwvZGRheHVtci00NGUwY2JhNC0zMzM2LTQ0OTktYTFlZC0yMTQ3YTI2YmFmZTYuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.cgVNjJXFDJDahZQ7TeVyzkFyQ8iYHd90GMDoCw1pGJg)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 05, 2019, 02:14:23 am
If you're patching the Japanese version, are you going to include any of the graphical improvements made to the US version?

https://tcrf.net/Final_Fantasy
No because then that would kind of ruin the point of translating the Japanese ROM in the first place.

Probably sprites like the Ninja casting a spell, the Master's hair, the White Mage and Fighter injured, and the White Wizard's head. I'm also curious if you were going to use the weapon icons as well, just used in reverse of how FFI US did it (Wooden (nunchuck icon).
I’m not going to change any of the sprites because I didn’t change any of the sprites in FF2 or FF3 either.

But, I may end up using weapon icons (but format them like how FF2 and FF3 does). I’m still messing around with expanding menus and such, so I haven’t fully decided the parameters for item names yet (probably going to be capped at 9 characters for key items and 6 characters for regular items unless people don’t mind the quantity number being printed right next to the item without a space, then could be 7 items).

Hey, Chaos Rush, I've played your retranslation of FFIII up to Tozus so far, and I'm happy to report that I have found only one minor bug in that time. The bug in question is that the in-battle message for when an enemy wakes up seems to be bugged, as shown on the below screenshot.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ag91/NullInternet/Final%20Fantasy%20III%202019%20Retranslation/Wakebug_zpsi36hyrvj.png)
I know you're probably focused on translation FFI at the moment, but could you please take the time to look into this bug? I like your retranslation so far, and so I want to see it become even better.
Thank you for pointing that out. Can you confirm that you’re playing v1.2? I have a theory on what’s causing it (it’s probably reading from a DTE char even though I thought I disabled it for battles) but first I want to make sure you have v1.1 or v1.2 because in those versions I fixed the repeated character bug that people were talking about in earlier pages.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 05, 2019, 06:23:50 am
If you would actually read the article, many errors in sprites, such as the White Wizard, were fixed.

No need for an attitude, it was a genuine question and I did read the article before asking it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Grandpaf on July 05, 2019, 06:47:35 am
No because then that would kind of ruin the point of translating the Japanese ROM in the first place.
I’m not going to change any of the sprites because I didn’t change any of the sprites in FF2 or FF3 either.

Thank you for that. I feel the new sprites had nothing of an improvement (except the White Wizard's one).

That being said, the font looks really good in FF1 and I really like the tight space between the lines. For FF3, your translation looks nice but I'm not fond aesthetically of cramped magics and jobs name. Maybe someday it would be possible to find a solution for that.

Congratulation to you again  :beer:

Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 05, 2019, 02:19:38 pm
If you're patching the Japanese version, are you going to include any of the graphical improvements made to the US version?

https://tcrf.net/Final_Fantasy

Which changes do you consider improvements? Most of changes were censoring changes. I’d prefer leaving it alone.

That's true, and any removal of religious themes would hardly seem vanilla.

But...

Then again, this is an epic-fantasy world, meaning any Christian or Jewish references would hardly make sense, or fit in with this alternate reality.

Unless, these references were allegorical.

(I'm just being ironic.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Spooniest on July 05, 2019, 03:07:47 pm
Just like the spoony bard, there's just some things you don't mess with.

Weird tho, people mess with me all the time  ;D

Looks great duder. I'm looking forward to when you get done.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on July 05, 2019, 03:47:03 pm
A Color restoration for the GBA version of FFIV is a great idea but the idea of include downscaled battle backgrounds from the PSP version is where i automatically disagree
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 05, 2019, 04:03:58 pm
A Color restoration for the GBA version of FFIV is a great idea but the idea of include downscaled battle backgrounds from the PSP version is where i automatically disagree
Not to veer too off-topic regarding FF4 but you can’t “restore” the colors in the battle backgrounds from the GBA version because they were redone completely and there’s no reference material to restore it to, but they’re still overtly bright because it’s a GBA game. It’s not pixel art, it’s already a downscaled painting/drawing to begin with. And most of the battle backgrounds from the PSP version seem to be based off of the same source paintings/drawings that the GBA version used, just not brightened. Either way the PSP battle BG’s is the only thing closest to reference colors for the GBA battle BG’s.

With that said I’m not sure if I’ll ever mess with FF4 GBA. While working with GBA is convenient for a variety of reasons, the GBA port suffers from lag and the fast pace of the original SNES version is completely ruined in that. Maybe someday it could be fixed.


EDIT:
Don't want to double post so I'll just edit this, but here's some screenshots of progress on FF1:
(https://imgur.com/skTb9ng.png) (https://imgur.com/PEYBZ3H.png) (https://imgur.com/DYNU7IV.png) (https://imgur.com/c7KReT2.png) (https://imgur.com/DqULIfx.png)

Some things to note:
* key items capped at 9 tiles
* regular items capped at 7 tiles
* equipment capped at 8 tiles
* spells capped at 7 tiles
* enemy names capped at 10 tiles
* these abbreviation choices are not final; I’m considering implementing icons for staffs and hammers

I do plan on expanding player names to 5 or 6 characters. So far ASM edits haven't been too bad because Disch's FF1 disassembly has been useful (even though the disassembly is for the US FF1, the offsets aren't too far off from the Japanese version anyways so it saves me a lot of trouble).

Obviously this won't be as fancy of a makeover as Final Fantasy Restored. I'm not trying to make the definitive FF1, I'm just trying to make an English version of the original FF1 as it is and approach it the same way that I did FF2 and FF3. Hope you guys can understand that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Da_GPer on July 06, 2019, 03:18:18 am
I'm very impressed by your work on Final Fantasy II and III. I have no doubts that you will make an awesome version of the first game. Don't let those who want to turn your work into something it's not turn you down.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 06, 2019, 04:14:11 am
I'm very impressed by your work on Final Fantasy II and III. I have no doubts that you will make an awesome version of the first game. Don't let those who want to turn your work into something it's not turn you down.


HEAR, HEAR!!!!   :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 06, 2019, 11:08:08 am
Not to veer too off-topic regarding FF4 but you can’t “restore” the colors in the battle backgrounds from the GBA version because they were redone completely and there’s no reference material to restore it to, but they’re still overtly bright because it’s a GBA game. It’s not pixel art, it’s already a downscaled painting/drawing to begin with. And most of the battle backgrounds from the PSP version seem to be based off of the same source paintings/drawings that the GBA version used, just not brightened. Either way the PSP battle BG’s is the only thing closest to reference colors for the GBA battle BG’s.

With that said I’m not sure if I’ll ever mess with FF4 GBA. While working with GBA is convenient for a variety of reasons, the GBA port suffers from lag and the fast pace of the original SNES version is completely ruined in that. Maybe someday it could be fixed.


EDIT:
Don't want to double post so I'll just edit this, but here's some screenshots of progress on FF1:
(https://imgur.com/skTb9ng.png) (https://imgur.com/PEYBZ3H.png) (https://imgur.com/DYNU7IV.png) (https://imgur.com/c7KReT2.png) (https://imgur.com/DqULIfx.png)

Some things to note:
* key items capped at 9 tiles
* regular items capped at 7 tiles
* equipment capped at 8 tiles
* spells capped at 7 tiles
* enemy names capped at 10 tiles
* these abbreviation choices are not final; I’m considering implementing icons for staffs and hammers

I do plan on expanding player names to 5 or 6 characters. So far ASM edits haven't been too bad because Disch's FF1 disassembly has been useful (even though the disassembly is for the US FF1, the offsets aren't too far off from the Japanese version anyways so it saves me a lot of trouble).

Obviously this won't be as fancy of a makeover as Final Fantasy Restored. I'm not trying to make the definitive FF1, I'm just trying to make an English version of the original FF1 as it is and approach it the same way that I did FF2 and FF3. Hope you guys can understand that.

Really nice work so far. Definitely use Staff and Hammer icons as it will look cleaner. Also, consider a Font Options for folks who want either the original NES font, US FFII, or US FFIII (Chicago).

As far as box art is concerned, these are what I use -

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy II (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III (custom).jpg)

Or some alternatives:

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy (custom).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy II (custom).jpg)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Mirage on July 06, 2019, 04:44:42 pm
Thank you for pointing that out. Can you confirm that you’re playing v1.2? I have a theory on what’s causing it (it’s probably reading from a DTE char even though I thought I disabled it for battles) but first I want to make sure you have v1.1 or v1.2 because in those versions I fixed the repeated character bug that people were talking about in earlier pages.
I double-checked just now. It's version 1.2.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on July 06, 2019, 05:26:06 pm
Not to veer too off-topic regarding FF4 but you can’t “restore” the colors in the battle backgrounds from the GBA version because they were redone completely and there’s no reference material to restore it to, but they’re still overtly bright because it’s a GBA game. It’s not pixel art, it’s already a downscaled painting/drawing to begin with. And most of the battle backgrounds from the PSP version seem to be based off of the same source paintings/drawings that the GBA version used, just not brightened. Either way the PSP battle BG’s is the only thing closest to reference colors for the GBA battle BG’s.

With that said I’m not sure if I’ll ever mess with FF4 GBA. While working with GBA is convenient for a variety of reasons, the GBA port suffers from lag and the fast pace of the original SNES version is completely ruined in that. Maybe someday it could be fixed.
Thanks for the clarifications, i would love to see a FF4 translation made by you in the future
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 06, 2019, 10:47:43 pm

As far as box art is concerned, these are what I use -

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy II (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III (custom).jpg)

Or some alternatives:

(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy (custom).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy II (custom).jpg)

Also, don't forget about my box art.

These are for anyone who wants the logos on their covers to be reflective of their times.

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddaxumr-44e0cba4-3336-4499-a1ed-2147a26bafe6.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ZiNDQzYzRmLTU0ZGYtNGI1My05ZTI3LTYzMmEwYWYzOTU2OVwvZGRheHVtci00NGUwY2JhNC0zMzM2LTQ0OTktYTFlZC0yMTQ3YTI2YmFmZTYuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.cgVNjJXFDJDahZQ7TeVyzkFyQ8iYHd90GMDoCw1pGJg)

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadq1p-53e69d75-51ce-4a12-8bd5-5284fc19b3bc.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ZiNDQzYzRmLTU0ZGYtNGI1My05ZTI3LTYzMmEwYWYzOTU2OVwvZGRhZHExcC01M2U2OWQ3NS01MWNlLTRhMTItOGJkNS01Mjg0ZmMxOWIzYmMuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8J7_M-p-EY0sz1rbFE2PeMt1RUTyatnNe7fE6Blc490)

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/fb443c4f-54df-4b53-9e27-632a0af39569/ddadqb2-077ba9e5-e229-41fe-862c-d03c78f2d5f7.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ZiNDQzYzRmLTU0ZGYtNGI1My05ZTI3LTYzMmEwYWYzOTU2OVwvZGRhZHFiMi0wNzdiYTllNS1lMjI5LTQxZmUtODYyYy1kMDNjNzhmMmQ1ZjcuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.pce2DCaiDFsesQ9GfVA-ceum8gHxucSNNICJpfAg1cQ)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 08, 2019, 04:32:27 am
I'm a little bit worried that some people will think that I took "creative liberties" with the script so I might as well get this out of the way now so that people won't question it in the future.

In the Japanese FF1, not all of the text is written in a fantasy-esque way, but some of it is written in a way that kind of gives off a humorous Earthbound-esque vibe; for instance, the description for the Rat's Tail: "なんか くさくないか これ?! すてちまおうか? いーや まずいんじゃない!" ("Gosh this stinks, doesn't it? Why not throw it away? Ughhh it's just so gross!") I'm not saying all of the text is like that, but it's definitely not as 'formal' as later Final Fantasies which makes sense because it was the first game in the series and they were still finding their footing for setting the tone of the franchise.

With that said, the shop owner for weapons/shields kind of gives off a lazy and impatient vibe that was lost in the original US localization (probably due to that really tiny text box for the shop). I don't want people to think I'm taking "creative liberties" so I might as well clear it up now and post some comparison screenshots:

(https://i.imgur.com/plTITkx.png) (https://i.imgur.com/fR2Bj3n.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/h95oB9j.png) (https://i.imgur.com/JYNVUVJ.png)
In the Japanese version he actually gets impatient with you when asking about who will hold the weapon (the US localization just had, "Who will take it?"). Anyways I thought about just not mentioning this at all but I figured I might as well point out odd things in the original Japanese text so that people don't assume that I'm taking creative liberties if something is very different from the original US localization that people are used to playing.

With that said, here's some unrelated screenshots:
(https://i.imgur.com/M8ZEy79.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8s2kW4t.png) (https://i.imgur.com/v9alclR.png)

As you can see I'm focusing on menu and battle text right now, the main story NPC text will be the last part I work on. (And don't worry, I will provide a font patch for the original US font so people can get some form of nostalgia)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 08, 2019, 04:54:26 am
Given that description for the Rat's Tail, it being a symbol of courage makes a lot more sense. Kinda wish the official localizations portrayed that bit a little better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 08, 2019, 03:37:29 pm
I just want to say that I'm extraordinarily intrigued by how different the Japanese text is by what you've demonstrated and how little all previous official and fan versions have done to capture it.

I'm looking forward to playing this. I only regret that it probably won't include the bug fixes that are somewhat necessary for me to enjoy and recommend a version of this game. I really hope someone takes on a complimentary bugfix patch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 08, 2019, 04:15:51 pm
I just want to say that I'm extraordinarily intrigued by how different the Japanese text is by what you've demonstrated and how little all previous official and fan versions have done to capture it.

I'm looking forward to playing this. I only regret that it probably won't include the bug fixes that are somewhat necessary for me to enjoy and recommend a version of this game. I really hope someone takes on a complimentary bugfix patch.
Just out of my own curiosity, would you happen to know where I can find a list of these bugs present in the original game? I’ve only played through FF1 twice - the GBA version in English and the Famicom version in Japanese, and I’ve never played any other version. When I played through the FC version the only bug I noticed was that reviving spells don’t work in battle and that Tents and Cottages don’t save MP if you reset. I’m sure there’s more bugs though. In terms of gameplay balance I was expecting it to be a grind fest but it wasn’t bad at all, the toughest part was probably getting the first crystal but after that everything was smooth-sailing.

I am interested in making optional bug fix patches, but I want to focus on the script first. Some time ago when I tried fixing the lack of level cap in FF2 (if you max out your stats it’ll rollover to 0) and ended up breaking it in the process, so I’m kind of afraid to attempt bug fixes at the moment.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 08, 2019, 06:43:04 pm
Just out of my own curiosity, would you happen to know where I can find a list of these bugs present in the original game? I’ve only played through FF1 twice - the GBA version in English and the Famicom version in Japanese, and I’ve never played any other version. When I played through the FC version the only bug I noticed was that reviving spells don’t work in battle and that Tents and Cottages don’t save MP if you reset. I’m sure there’s more bugs though. In terms of gameplay balance I was expecting it to be a grind fest but it wasn’t bad at all, the toughest part was probably getting the first crystal but after that everything was smooth-sailing.

I am interested in making optional bug fix patches, but I want to focus on the script first. Some time ago when I tried fixing the lack of level cap in FF2 (if you max out your stats it’ll rollover to 0) and ended up breaking it in the process, so I’m kind of afraid to attempt bug fixes at the moment.
Thanks for considering this! Here's a web site that seems to capture the main ones.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_bugs_and_glitches (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_bugs_and_glitches)

Astralesper's final fantasy restored incorporated basically all of these, along with Grond's FF before it. Grond's had a more aggressive way of handling the int bug and restored had more relaxed way. Both were a big improvement over the original where the int stat had no impact on magic damage or healing whatsoever. This became most noticeable in the late game when enemies have high magic resistance and all your spells tend to do very low damage because of the stats failing to impact spell accuracy.

The bugs being fixed don't change the overall balance of the game significantly. In all the early versions, it remains like you say. Challenging early game, moderately difficult mid game, and very easy end game (especially with the free equipment spells to cast.) It's just something where when you know certain things are broken, you can't help but be bothered by them--especially with half the spells either not working or not working correctly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 08, 2019, 07:15:39 pm
will this work on canoe hardware?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 08, 2019, 10:05:26 pm
will this work on canoe hardware?

They're Famicom/NES games, so Kachikachi is the relevant emulator.  And yes, Chaos Rush's versions of FF2 and FF3 work just fine the NES Classic (and the SNES Classic if you dual-boot). 

The only issue is that FF2 has some stuttering during battles when drawing new text windows, but only when the CRT filter option is selected.  That's not the patch's fault though, as the original Japanese ROM exhibits the exact same behavior.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 08, 2019, 11:53:53 pm
I just want to say that I'm extraordinarily intrigued by how different the Japanese text is by what you've demonstrated and how little all previous official and fan versions have done to capture it.

I'm looking forward to playing this. I only regret that it probably won't include the bug fixes that are somewhat necessary for me to enjoy and recommend a version of this game. I really hope someone takes on a complimentary bugfix patch.

Can't we just port the script later?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2019, 12:03:20 am
Can't we just port the script later?
Yeah I was gonna say I don’t see the point in making my own bugfix hack when other finished projects that already fix all those exist. It’s part of why I ignored FF1 for a while and started work on FF2 and FF3. Plus, while bugfixes are nice, with anything that affects gameplay balance that much, is it even the same game anymore? Sure it’ll provide a more fun experience but to me FF1 is supposed to be an unbalanced buggy game. It’s a reflection of history.

Though I will say, the MP not saving when using Tents and Cottages, that’s a high priority bug that doesn’t directly affect gameplay, and that’s probably what I’d be interested in providing an optional patch to fix.

With that said, with my tool (that I’ll eventually release but not for a while because I’m working on it as I work on FF1) it would be really easy to port the script over to other versions of the game (though some adjustment of parameters might be necessary). I could even inject the original FF1 US NES script into the Japanese version right now and release a patch tonight if I wanted to lol.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cristal on July 09, 2019, 12:42:06 am
I've been following this thread but only decided to post now. First of all, thank you for the good work, Chaos Rush. I just played a bit of the new FF3 translation and casually compared some of the lines with the Japanese originals. Everything seems to be on spot, and that's how I think translations should be: with accuracy and professionalism above all else. I think you're very qualified to take on any of the 6 original games.

Personally when playing through a series for the first time, I like to play a game in its original form rather than a remake so than I can see how its gameplay, graphics, and presentation evolved. Going from GBA/PSP FF2 to NES FF3 is a little strange to me, because then FF3 isn’t really much of an upgrade. Likewise going from DS FF4 to SNES FF5 is just as strange to me. Of course, once I’ve beaten a game in its original form then I’ll play the remake so I can appreciate the updates it offers.

For example, going from NES FF1 to NES FF2 you get to see how FF2 improved on these areas:
* improved battle HUD with new sliding menu
* expanded battle backgrounds a teeny tiny bit
* final boss actually has its own music
* an improved text engine with line scrolling within text boxes
* a much more character-driven story with twice the dialogue

Sure, the remake versions of FF1 already offer all of that, but then going from remake FF1 to remake FF2, FF2 suddenly upgrades a lot less to FF1.

Likewise, going from NES FF2 to NES FF3 you get:
* the classic “big blue bar at bottom” battle HUD is established for the first time
* improvements to battle HUD in general, such as the ability to view your entire inventory
* auto-targeting is added
* bosses now have boss music too, not just final boss
* major improvements to menus all-around, the original FF3 established the basic menu layout used from FF3-FF9

Again, you lose all these things when going from remake FF2 to either version of FF3, since then FF2 would already have all of these improvements, making FF3 suddenly offer a lot less that’s new.
I think you’d be missing the point of doing a FF1 translation, to be honest. Sounds like what you’re looking for is a title screen patch for FFR or GFF.

The whole point of translating the Famicom version of FF1 is so that people who want to play the original game with all of its original quirks intact can play it as it is. My projects aren’t “definitive edition” hacks, they’re just plain and simple translations with no gameplay alterations whatsoever. I would have no idea what kind of “addendum” I would do to a complete hack like FFR or GFF.

Couldn't agree more. And that's one of the reasons I opted to play through the original DQ1~4 (Famicom) titles in chronological order. It was a very satisfying experience, as I could enjoy all the little updates each subsequent title added (especially every newly added monster, which are among my favorite things in those games). This is the only way you can appreciate a series' evolution to the fullest.
____________________________

On the note of bugfixes, I agree that any of them should be strictly optional. Unlike some people are claiming, I don't think the original FF1 (even in its pristine bugged state) is unplayable by any stretch of imagination. Even the original Dragon Quest (DQ1 not DW1), which was released 1 year earlier in a 64kb ROM, isn't unplayable. For anyone who thinks FF1 is really that bad, try to play something like Hoshi wo miru Hito.

That's all I wanted to say. Not sure if I will post much anymore after this, unless if there's something else I really want to add. Chaos Rush, just follow Da_GPer's advice and keep doing what you're doing. It's great stuff, really. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 09, 2019, 12:54:00 am
If the new script were supplied with variant patch options for FF restored and / or grond's version, that does sound like a better solution than reinventing the wheel.

But as to this argument about preserving history in such a strict sense, doesn't that view kind of invalidate the majority of the work that this very community has produced--and even this very script? This was a time when developers had tiny teams and were typically given only one shot at getting a release correct. I know of specific bugs in the early FF's that Sakaguchi became aware of, confronted Nasir the coder about, and was nonchalantly blown off and told that it was good enough. Today, game companies take in feedback, release updates, etc, but not for these classic games. I think we as hackers have a unique and important responsibility to revisit history and offer an alternative where everything was done correctly, from capturing the essence of a script faithfully to delivering what is ultimately a bug free and uncensored product.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2019, 01:06:09 am
If the new script were supplied with variant patch options for FF restored and / or grond's version, that does sound like a better solution than reinventing the wheel.

But as to this argument about preserving history in such a strict sense, doesn't that view kind of invalidate the majority of the work that this very community has produced? This was a time when developers had tiny teams and were typically given only one shot at getting a release correct. I know of specific bugs in the early FF's that Sakaguchi became aware of that, confronted Nasir the coder about, and was nonchalantly blown off and told that it was good enough. Today, game companies take in feedback, release updates, etc, but not for these classic games. I think we as hackers have a unique and important responsibility to revisit history and offer an alternative where everything was done correctly, from capturing the essence of a script faithfully to delivering a bug free product.
Oh I definitely agree, and I do recall reading that about Nasir when asked why Ultima was bugged in FF2.

I guess my view point is, I’m just here to translate/update scripts, and I think my specialty lies in making programs that can unpack and repack text. I still consider myself rather new to NES hacking and being asked to fix a bunch of bugs seems like a tall order when all I set out to do was to just do translation stuff. With that said, I would love patches that fix all of the bugs in the original FC/NES trilogy, but understand that I’m not this magical NES hacker that can fix anything. Sometimes it feels like people are looking to me as this expert NES hacker when I’m not. (I’m a little drunk right now so excuse me if I’m speaking too brashly)

But also, these bugs have already been fixed in other projects, and I’ll see what I can do about them in the future. But for now, I want to focus on the script, and we can talk about the technical stuff afterwards. I know that I have to be a bit more sensitive towards how people feel about FF1 in particular, because unlike the other two in the trilogy, it did have a western release and a lot more people grew up playing it and have strong opinions over it, and I want to respect that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 09, 2019, 01:12:50 am
Thanks for the honest reply. Look--I'm in pretty much in the same boat myself. I've been involved with creating faithful English retranslations of the early Dragon Warrior/Quest games and figuring out how to get them inserted (with a lot of help). As far as dealing with bugs, I know all about feeling painfully limited with that. So as someone who does similar work I totally understand. I guess with FF games I am wearing the fan hat, hence spouting out all these opinions. You're doing the right thing focusing on one thing at a time. Thanks and apologies if I have been giving you a headache.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2019, 01:31:14 am
Thanks for the honest reply. Look--I'm in pretty much in the same boat myself. I've been involved with creating faithful English retranslations of the early Dragon Warrior/Quest games and figuring out how to get them inserted (with a lot of help). As far as dealing with bugs, I know all about feeling painfully limited with that. So as someone who does similar work I totally understand. I guess with FF games I am wearing the fan hat, hence spouting out all these opinions. You're doing the right thing focusing on one thing at a time. Thanks and apologies if I have been giving you a headache.
No worries. I appreciate your support for the project, and while I do this for fun as a hobby (and experience), I should still take other people’s opinions into consideration. I’m not capable of fixing a bunch of bugs in a NES game with questionable coding to begin with (FF1 has a lot more hardcoded strings than FF2 and FF3 which is a little annoying), but I’m more than capable of porting text from one version of a game to another since I’ve already written programs that do that.

I recently played through the original Famicom FF1 on my Japan 3DS via Virtual Console, and I enjoyed it for what it is (well actually it sucked that there were no Hi-Potions LOL). I guess what I’m saying is, when I finish my project I hope that people can appreciate FF1 for what it is, but I understand many people already spent their childhoods playing the original FF1, and playing the same buggy game with a marginally better script doesn’t provide much value, so because of that I’m willing to provide... options ;)

July 09, 2019, 03:02:13 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I've been following this thread but only decided to post now. First of all, thank you for the good work, Chaos Rush. I just played a bit of the new FF3 translation and casually compared some of the lines with the Japanese originals. Everything seems to be on spot, and that's how I think translations should be: with accuracy and professionalism above all else. I think you're very qualified to take on any of the 6 original games.

Couldn't agree more. And that's one of the reasons I opted to play through the original DQ1~4 (Famicom) titles in chronological order. It was a very satisfying experience, as I could enjoy all the little updates each subsequent title added (especially every newly added monster, which are among my favorite things in those games). This is the only way you can appreciate a series' evolution to the fullest.
____________________________

On the note of bugfixes, I agree that any of them should be strictly optional. Unlike some people are claiming, I don't think the original FF1 (even in its pristine bugged state) is unplayable by any stretch of imagination. Even the original Dragon Quest (DQ1 not DW1), which was released 1 year earlier in a 64kb ROM, isn't unplayable. For anyone who thinks FF1 is really that bad, try to play something like Hoshi wo miru Hito.

That's all I wanted to say. Not sure if I will post much anymore after this, unless if there's something else I really want to add. Chaos Rush, just follow Da_GPer's advice and keep doing what you're doing. It's great stuff, really. :)
Somehow I missed this post, in fact some posts don’t seem to appear for me right away. Oh well.

Thank you for your comments! I do appreciate it because I’ve worked really hard to improve my Japanese in recent years, and I’ve been told as recently as a few months ago that my Japanese sounds like “grammatically correct translated-from-English Japanese” which personally sucks to hear for me because I do have a Japanese background and it’s kinda part of my identity and stuff that I’ve struggled with for years (when you're half-Japanese you're kinda held to a higher standard than others trying to learn the language). I know what I said might seem irrelevant because these are English-language based projects (and why I’m doing this at all), but it means a lot to me simply due to related things I’ve been told in the past.

With that said, as you play FF3 keep in mind that I really had to cram the text in there and squeeze out every bytes of free space, so the language in that isn’t as elegant as I’d like it to be (lots of contractions and trying to get the point across with as little words as possible). I’m proud that I made very few omissions (only very irrelevant stuff, like characters that say “Thank you” twice in the Japanese version say it once in my translation) and was able to retain all of the points expressed by characters, but again some more space would’ve been nice. I couldn’t get DTE compression working in battle screens but maybe in a future update I can figure it out, giving the story text a little more breathing room.

My project plans for now are:

1. Finishing the FF1 translation
2. Addendum patches for Grond’s FF and FFRestored
3. Update the FF2 translation since I’m better at compressing text than I was 3 years ago, and do something about that magic menu
4. Update the FF3 translation (hopefully get DTE compression working in-battle and squash a text display bug related to it)
5. Port the FF1 and FF2 translations over to the FF1+2 multicart
6. Maybe do something with FF4 SFC or FF4 GBA

(The FF3 update might come sooner than where I listed it though)

In a couple weeks I’m gonna get busy with IRL work, so these projects will take a while.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cyneprepou4uk on July 09, 2019, 04:08:04 pm
Somehow I missed this post, in fact some posts don’t seem to appear for me right away.
First 5 posts or something are moderated before actual posting if user has less number of posts, like when he has just registered. It seems this causes bugs like new (button) posts don’t include newbie's post if someone else posted after him
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 09, 2019, 04:46:20 pm
Though I will say, the MP not saving when using Tents and Cottages, that’s a high priority bug that doesn’t directly affect gameplay, and that’s probably what I’d be interested in providing an optional patch to fix.
Tents work as they should though. As for Cottages, can we be sure that Cottages doesn't recover your MP before saving your game is actually a bug? Yes, it's stupid but this game have a lot of unusual design choices.
It may very well be a programming mistake, but the fact is that both the Item Menu choice/description and the Japanese manual support this quirk being by design.

Cottage manual description:ふだんは手の平に乗るほど小さくなる魔法の小屋。辺境の地で休むにはぴったりのアイテムです。HP、MPは大幅に回復します。(ただしMPの回復はセーブの後になります。)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 09, 2019, 05:09:18 pm
Tents work as they should though. As for Cottages, can we be sure that Cottages doesn't recover your MP before saving your game is actually a bug? Yes, it's stupid but this game have a lot of unusual design choices.
It may very well be a programming mistake, but the fact is that both the Item Menu choice/description and the Japanese manual support this quirk being by design.

Cottage manual description:ふだんは手の平に乗るほど小さくなる魔法の小屋。辺境の地で休むにはぴったりのアイテムです。HP、MPは大幅に回復します。(ただしMPの回復はセーブの後になります。)
I don't have the actual manual but thanks for pointing that out, "ただしMPの回復はセーブのになります。" does clarify that it recovers MP AFTER you save.

Here is the in-game description:
Quote
HPかいふく!セーブしてまほうかいふくもする?
 えーぼたん....はい  びーぼたん....いいえ
"HP recovered! Save and then recover magic?
A-Button..Yes
B-Button..No"

It does say it'll save first and then recover magic, but it doesn't say it as explicitly as the manual says. Oh well, it's still a weird design choice IMO (but of course such a fix will be OPTIONAL and not forced)

Also I just checked the digital manual for the 3DS VC version and the description for the Cottage has a footnote saying, "MPはセーブをした場合のみ、回復します", which does clarify that it recovers MP after the save. Shame on me for not reading I guess.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 09, 2019, 05:47:48 pm
I don't have the actual manual but thanks for pointing that out...
You're welcome. For reference, here's the item descriptions from the original manual:
(https://i.imgur.com/9OwxYMI.jpg)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 09, 2019, 06:06:38 pm
No worries. I appreciate your support for the project, and while I do this for fun as a hobby (and experience), I should still take other people’s opinions into consideration. I’m not capable of fixing a bunch of bugs in a NES game with questionable coding to begin with (FF1 has a lot more hardcoded strings than FF2 and FF3 which is a little annoying), but I’m more than capable of porting text from one version of a game to another since I’ve already written programs that do that.

I recently played through the original Famicom FF1 on my Japan 3DS via Virtual Console, and I enjoyed it for what it is (well actually it sucked that there were no Hi-Potions LOL). I guess what I’m saying is, when I finish my project I hope that people can appreciate FF1 for what it is, but I understand many people already spent their childhoods playing the original FF1, and playing the same buggy game with a marginally better script doesn’t provide much value, so because of that I’m willing to provide... options ;)

July 09, 2019, 03:02:13 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Somehow I missed this post, in fact some posts don’t seem to appear for me right away. Oh well.

Thank you for your comments! I do appreciate it because I’ve worked really hard to improve my Japanese in recent years, and I’ve been told as recently as a few months ago that my Japanese sounds like “grammatically correct translated-from-English Japanese” which personally sucks to hear for me because I do have a Japanese background and it’s kinda part of my identity and stuff that I’ve struggled with for years (when you're half-Japanese you're kinda held to a higher standard than others trying to learn the language). I know what I said might seem irrelevant because these are English-language based projects (and why I’m doing this at all), but it means a lot to me simply due to related things I’ve been told in the past.

With that said, as you play FF3 keep in mind that I really had to cram the text in there and squeeze out every bytes of free space, so the language in that isn’t as elegant as I’d like it to be (lots of contractions and trying to get the point across with as little words as possible). I’m proud that I made very few omissions (only very irrelevant stuff, like characters that say “Thank you” twice in the Japanese version say it once in my translation) and was able to retain all of the points expressed by characters, but again some more space would’ve been nice. I couldn’t get DTE compression working in battle screens but maybe in a future update I can figure it out, giving the story text a little more breathing room.

My project plans for now are:

1. Finishing the FF1 translation
2. Addendum patches for Grond’s FF and FFRestored
3. Update the FF2 translation since I’m better at compressing text than I was 3 years ago, and do something about that magic menu
4. Update the FF3 translation (hopefully get DTE compression working in-battle and squash a text display bug related to it)
5. Port the FF1 and FF2 translations over to the FF1+2 multicart
6. Maybe do something with FF4 SFC or FF4 GBA

(The FF3 update might come sooner than where I listed it though)

In a couple weeks I’m gonna get busy with IRL work, so these projects will take a while.

I’m excited about this list! When you update FF2, there’s a typo I found a while ago that II’ll find for you for a quick fix.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on July 10, 2019, 12:36:28 pm
Not to veer too off-topic regarding FF4 but you can’t “restore” the colors in the battle backgrounds from the GBA version because they were redone completely and there’s no reference material to restore it to, but they’re still overtly bright because it’s a GBA game. It’s not pixel art, it’s already a downscaled painting/drawing to begin with. And most of the battle backgrounds from the PSP version seem to be based off of the same source paintings/drawings that the GBA version used, just not brightened. Either way the PSP battle BG’s is the only thing closest to reference colors for the GBA battle BG’s.
Sorry if this off-topic and im back to awnser this again,
but If leaves me with the intrigue of why not edit the GBA backgrounds colors from scratch using the PSP BG's as a reference, if it's not possible why not use the WSC backgrounds instead.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 01:44:09 pm
Sorry if this off-topic and im back to awnser this again,
but If leaves me with the intrigue of why not edit the GBA backgrounds colors from scratch using the PSP BG's as a reference, if it's not possible why not use the WSC backgrounds instead.
Again, the GBA FF4 battle BGs is NOT pixel art, it’s a downscaled painting/drawing, and is LZ77-compressed and displays uses a multipalette tilemap. Editing each and every color entry would take a really long time, and the final result would look almost exactly the same as just inserting the PSP backgrounds to begin with. Sure, the PSP backgrounds redid a lot of them, but they did it in a way that kept the same 'feel' of the original background while also making it look closer to the actual surrounding environment.

The FF4 WSC backgrounds can’t be used because they are at a lower resolution than the GBA so they would have to be upscaled, not to mention the WSC version uses pixel-art backgrounds instead of downscaled images like the GBA and PSP version does.

Why are you so against using the PSP backgrounds in the GBA version when both of them already use downscaled backgrounds from larger source paintings to begin with?

Take a look for yourself:

FF4GBA: https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/finalfantasy4advance/sheet/5235/

FF4PSP: https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/50889/

July 10, 2019, 03:39:28 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
On a different note, I’d like to hear your guys’ thoughts regarding terminology.

Up to this point, when doing FF2 and FF3, for items, characters, etc., I strictly used the terminology used in the remake versions that were officially released in English by Square Enix, and only made exceptions when the name is too long and had to abbreviate it (such as the “Thor’s Hammer” item which I named “Mjölnir” in FF1 and FF3 due to Mjölnir being the actual name of Thor’s hammer in Norse mythology. If there was enough space I would just call it “Thor’s Hammer” of course)

With that said, there’s something I’m internally debating regarding the Four Fiends, who are referred to as the Four Chaos(4つのカオス) in the Japanese version, sharing a connection with the final boss Chaos, who shares the same name in both the Japanese version and English versions.

Part of me thinks I should just stick with the term used in the official localizations, no ifs and buts. But calling them “Four Fiends” loses the name connection to Chaos. In the Japanese versions of FF1, you travel through the world defeating the Four Chaos, ultimately leading to the final boss Garland, who becomes THE Chaos. Meanwhile in English versions of FF1, you travel through the world defeating the Four Fiends, ultimately leading to the final boss Garland, who is now called Chaos for some reason.

The options I have are:

1. ”The Four Chaos” - call them exactly what the Japanese version calls them, though it may sound awkward in English

2. “The Four Fiends of Chaos” - keeps the connection with Chaos while also keeping somewhat of a connection to the canon English name, letting them still colloquially be referred as the “Four Fiends”

3. “The Four Chaos Fiends” - same connotations as #2 just worded slightly differently

4. “The Four Fiends” - just use the canon name, but sadly loses the connection to the final boss

What do you guys think? For now I’m sticking with “The Four Fiends” just to be on the safe side, but I want to hear the opinions of Final Fantasy fans who grew up with the series (I didn’t play a FF game until my late teens)

I worry that calling them anything else besides the Four Fiends would cross a line that I haven’t crossed up to this point, but at the same time I want to preserve any connections that were present in the original game that were lost in the localizations.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 10, 2019, 04:04:53 pm
Four Fields of Chaos has a catchy tune to it.

A perfect balance of the original and the localized.

Also, how do I redo my vote...?
I messed up... ^^;
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cavery210 on July 10, 2019, 04:07:01 pm
I think you can go with the Four Chaoses. After all, the Four Fiends are known as the Four Heavenly Kings (or the Shitennou), not the Four Chaoses.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 04:10:11 pm
I think you can go with the Four Chaoses. After all, the Four Fiends are known as the Four Heavenly Kings (or the Shitennou), not the Four Chaoses.
From what I could find, that’s only in later FF’s. In FC FF1 they’re always referred to as the Four Chaos.

(unrelated but shitennō is also the Japanese name of the Elite Four from Pokémon lol)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 10, 2019, 04:10:24 pm
I think you can go with the Four Chaoses. After all, the Four Fiends are known as the Four Heavenly Kings (or the Shitennou), not the Four Chaoses.

Let's not forget, this is a port of the recent localized script for the original NES/Famicom version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 04:14:54 pm
Let's not forget, this is a port of the recent localized script for the original NES/Famicom version.
?
It’s not. The Japanese GBA/PSP/iOS versions of FF1 changed/expanded a bunch of lines. Therefore I can’t abridge the Dawn of Souls script if I’m trying to represent the original FC version of FF1 (some of those extra stuff made it into FFR, for instance in the FC version of FF1 past-Garland never mentions that he was a knight of Corneria, that’s only in the remake versions but it was included in FFR). And no I’m not using that script analysis by that one guy, it is way too literal and unnatural even if that was the intention. I’m translating myself but I’m still looking at what the official versions did of course.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 10, 2019, 04:38:27 pm
While you are directly translating the Japanese version, I think it is best to go with official current localization for things like this. It's why I chose The Warring Triad in Woolsey Uncensored instead of the Three Warring Gods. I've always called them the Four Elemental Fiends, but the Four Fiends still works. We know they work for Chaos in the end, but the mystery to the player I don't think is revealed until later in the game. (I could be wrong though)

Also, while you are looking at the translation, I do recommend referencing all of the official releases of the game if you can to help  smooth things out if you're not doing so already.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 10, 2019, 05:33:19 pm
I vote for the Four Fiends of Chaos, because it includes the original title, you're just adding context to it, they're still the Four Fiends for short.


(unrelated but shitennō is also the Japanese name of the Elite Four from Pokémon lol)
Off topic: Shitennou "four heavenly kings" is a common trope rooted in Buddhist mythology, whenever you see a quartet of bosses/villains/gods/whatever, expect them to be called Shitennou in Japanese. The Elite Four in Pokemon, Bison/Balrog/Vega/Sagat in Street Fighter II (Sagat leaves and is replaced with FANG in SFV), the FF4 Archfiends, etc. Tomato did an article on the trope
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 10, 2019, 05:47:39 pm
?
It’s not. The Japanese GBA/PSP/iOS versions of FF1 changed/expanded a bunch of lines. Therefore I can’t abridge the Dawn of Souls script if I’m trying to represent the original FC version of FF1 (some of those extra stuff made it into FFR, for instance in the FC version of FF1 past-Garland never mentions that he was a knight of Corneria, that’s only in the remake versions but it was included in FFR). And no I’m not using that script analysis by that one guy, it is way too literal and unnatural even if that was the intention. I’m translating myself but I’m still looking at what the official versions did of course.

I meant in names and terminologies. I didn't mean to take the word script specifically.

Sorry if I misspoke. >.<
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 10, 2019, 06:24:27 pm
I’m a fan of including “chaos” in their title, and I have never personally cared for the name “Four Fiends.” However, “The Four Chaos” doesn’t sound grammatically correct (even though it is) because we don’t typically pluralize that word. “The Four Chaoses” is also grammatically correct, and sounds more natural to me. Is it typical to pluralize カオス in Japanese?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 06:34:52 pm
I meant in names and terminologies. I didn't mean to take the word script specifically.

Sorry if I misspoke. >.<
No worries, sorry about my misunderstanding.

I’m a fan of including “chaos” in their title, and I have never personally cared for the name “Four Fiends.” However, “The Four Chaos” doesn’t sound grammatically correct (even though it is) because we don’t typically pluralize that word. “The Four Chaoses” is also grammatically correct, and sounds more natural to me. Is it typical to pluralize カオス in Japanese?
They’re referred to in Japanese as 4つのカオス (よっつ の カオス)and the way pluralization works in Japanese in most cases doesn’t modify the word itself unlike English. If “Chaoses” is grammatically correct then I guess I can go with that if people vote for it.

Personally I’m leaning towards “The Four Fiends of Chaos” but the votes are showing just “The Four Fiends”. Maybe I’ll make a “canon patch”(Fiends) and a “non-canon patch”(Fiends of Chaos) lol. (Which is more important, polls or discussion?)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: star_scream1646 on July 10, 2019, 06:58:43 pm
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy II (custom 2).jpg)(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/Final Fantasy III (custom).jpg)
Off topic

Does anyone know if similar PS1 covers exist for Final Fantasy 7-9? I saw over at the Final Fantasy IV Namingway Edition thread, Rodimus Primal posted similar looking box art for Final Fantasy 4 and 5. And over at Final Fantasy VI Woolsey Uncensored Edition thread someone posted a cover for FFVI similar to those, all 6 look great so it would be nice if FF7-9 had similar covers. 

Edit:
Forgot to mention that when I mean "similar covers", I am referring to covers for FF7-9 that have Amano's art work. I know he did not provide much art for the Final Fantasy series after 6, but was wondering if anyone might know of any fan-made covers for FF-7 that uses the little art he did provide for those games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 10, 2019, 07:15:13 pm
Discussion is better than a poll because you need actual reasoning behind changes, not just votes. People will vote for something purely out of nostalgia, rather than logic.

I don't like "The Four Fiends of Chaos" since that seems very wordy at a glance. "The Four Fiends" has a certain catchy ring to it that's worth keeping, but the word "Fiends" does not really need to stay. It may be canon, but it's worth noting that their Japanese title has never reappeared in any other games since outside games like Dimensions, and even in English the only vague reference is the group in FF4 called the "Archfiends". Even in IX, the original four are not referred to as the Four Fiends. Instead, they are called the "Chaos Guardians", which is another possible name for them. One name I came across is that the Mystic Quest group equivalent is called the "Vile Four". So "Chaos Four" would be a good usage.

I recommend either sticking with "The Four Fiends" to not alienate anybody, "The Chaos Guardians" for consistency with IX, or "The Chaos Four" as the best possible localization of the original name.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 10, 2019, 07:16:13 pm
EDIT: Ninja'd by BlazeHeatnix.

Doesn't the "no" in the Japanese text signify ownership/association?
So if I may be as literal as possible, their title is "The 4 of Chaos" or "Chaos' Four"?
Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

I'm pretty used to The Four Fiends.

Looking at the other games in the series the only recurring title for these 4 is 四天王 (Shitennō), and the only reason it was used in FFMQ is because of FF4, and they aren't even the same characters.
So really, they is no recurring title.

That said, I'm gonna go ahead and suggest "The Fiends of Chaos".
I dropped the 'Four' because it just feels awkward.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: DavidtheIdeaMan on July 10, 2019, 07:19:06 pm
Question,will there be gameplay improvements for the second & third game?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 07:32:10 pm
Discussion is better than a poll because you need actual reasoning behind changes, not just votes. People will vote for something purely out of nostalgia, rather than logic.

I don't like "The Four Fiends of Chaos" since that seems very wordy at a glance. "The Four Fiends" has a certain catchy ring to it that's worth keeping, but the word "Fiends" does not really need to stay. It may be canon, but it's worth noting that their Japanese title has never reappeared in any other games since outside games like Dimensions, and even in English the only vague reference is to the group in FF4 called the Archfiends. Even in IX, the original four are not referred to as the Four Fiends. Instead, they are called the "Chaos Guardians", which is another possible name for them.

One name I came across is that the Mystic Quest group equivalent is called the "Vile Four". I recommend "The Chaos Four".
Interesting, I’d never played a FF game past 4, so I didn’t know about how the “four evil monsters” concept is used in the rest of the series. I’ve looked at the FF wiki article that calls it the Four Fiends, and I’ve played the DS version of Chrono Trigger in English which I recall uses the “fiend” term for a group of characters.

I do like the ring of “The Chaos Four”.

Doesn't the "no" in the Japanese text signify ownership/association?
So if I may be as literal as possible, their title is "The 4 of Chaos" or "Chaos' Four"?
Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

I'm pretty used to The Four Fiends.

Looking at the other games in the series the only recurring title for these 4 is 四天王 (Shitennō), and the only reason it was used in FFMQ is because of FF4, and they aren't even the same characters.
So really, they is no recurring title.

That said, I'm gonna go ahead and suggest "The Fiends of Chaos".
I dropped the 'Four' because it just feels awkward.
Yes those would be the literal titles, but like you said they don’t roll off the tongue, hence why the official localizations call them “Four Fiends” in the first place.

Now I’m starting to understand why people debate about FF6 and Chrono Trigger so much lol. I’m already not liking the can of worms I’ve opened so maybe I should just stick with “Four Fiends” since that’s what’s official. But I’ve only brought this up today so I won’t decide now, I’ll just see how discussion plays out over the next several days(weeks?). I do want to throw the word “Chaos” somewhere in the script in association with the Four Fiends, since the Japanese version sets up the Four Chaos leading to Garland as the final Chaos. Hmm what to do... EDIT: I’m leaning towards “the Chaos Four” or “the Chaos Guardians” now. But let’s see how discussion plays out. EDIT2: Lol nevermind

Question,will there be gameplay improvements for the second & third game?
These are translations, not hacks. I may or may not make a hack in the future since I’m replaying the original trilogy and have ideas, but this thread in particular is purely about translations. And I believe a couple gameplay improvement patches for FF3 already exist that should be compatible with my translation patch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 10, 2019, 08:33:10 pm
One thing you learn in localization is that if you start changing things fans have known since it was branded into their brains at childhood, you're going to piss them off. When I edited the script for Mega Man Zero 2 to change Elpizo's name to Elpis (his original Japanese name) I got nothing but flak for it. Even after justifying the change, people were still pissed off. People just don't like having things changed after being used to them for so long.

FF4 DS had no problem changing "Elemental Lords" to "Archfiends" because that was never really a memorable term for that group. People usually just referred to each individual fiend by name rather than the whole group. But "The Four Fiends" was catchy, and it was all over Nintendo Power and schoolyard talk back in the day, so of course none of the re-releases renamed them. It's kinda like changing "I, Garland, will knock you all down!"

So maybe renaming The Four Fiends just isn't worth it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 08:49:20 pm
One thing you learn in localization is that if you start changing things fans have known since it was branded into their brains at childhood, you're going to piss them off. When I edited the script for Mega Man Zero 2 to change Elpizo's name to Elpis (his original Japanese name) I got nothing but flak for it. Even after justifying the change, people were still pissed off. People just don't like having things changed after being used to them for so long.

FF4 DS had no problem changing "Elemental Lords" to "Archfiends" because that was never really a memorable term for that group. People usually just referred to each individual fiend by name rather than the whole group. But "The Four Fiends" was catchy, and it was all over Nintendo Power and schoolyard talk back in the day, so of course none of the re-releases renamed them. It's kinda like changing "I, Garland, will knock you all down!"

So maybe renaming The Four Fiends just isn't worth it.
You’re right. If I called them anything other than The Four Fiends it would go against everything I’ve done so far regarding FF2 and FF3.

Four Fiends it is. I regret bringing this up at all lol. Now I’ve opened a can of worms, and I could’ve just called them Four Fiends, not say anything, and nobody would’ve had an issue with it.

Like everything I’ve done so far, when it comes to terminology I’m going to stick with what Square Enix uses regardless of whether or not I personally agree with it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 10, 2019, 08:58:17 pm
You’re right. If I called them anything other than The Four Fiends it would go against everything I’ve done so far regarding FF2 and FF3.

Four Fiends it is. I regret bringing this up at all lol. Now I’ve opened a can of worms, and I could’ve just called them Four Fiends, not say anything, and nobody would’ve had an issue with it.

Like everything I’ve done so far, when it comes to terminology I’m going to stick with what Square Enix uses regardless of whether or not I personally agree with it.

Regardless of what you use, I’m glad you brought it up because it’s an interesting thing I never knew about the game. No harm in discussing!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 10, 2019, 09:14:31 pm
Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway.  :P

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 10, 2019, 09:42:25 pm
Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway.  :P

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.

Couldn’t agree more here. Ultimately, there’s no right answer here, but if people don’t like a change, why are they playing the romhack? There are a million options when it comes to playing this game, and no one is forcing anyone to play this version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 10, 2019, 09:59:33 pm
Couldn’t agree more here. Ultimately, there’s no right answer here, but if people don’t like a change, why are they playing the romhack? There are a million options when it comes to playing this game, and no one is forcing anyone to play this version.

People like consistency across all the versions they play. They don't like seeing something they've grown used to suddenly being questioned for reasons they might not understand if they weren't reading this thread. I can easily see someone playing this romhack, as I would, to get an idea of where FF and Square's legacy started as opposed to the many remakes out there, and for the original difficulty and uncensored graphics that other versions remove. But if they were to play it, with this script, they'd be thrown off by "The Chaos Four" or whatever. They'd think "What are those? Aren't those supposed to be the Four Fiends? I don't get it, why'd they change it?" and they'd probably accept it and move on, but that one moment would throw them off and remind them that the script they are reading is, essentially, fanfiction. It immediately destroys any notion that this is a script Square themselves would be proud of.

Imagine if after so many years, after so many re-releases, after Dissidia, after World of FF, after all the other games in the franchise that use the names, Square decided to remake FFVI and change the party members' names to their Japanese counterparts: Tina, Mash, etc. And then after outcry over how unnecessary and alienating it was, Square's defense was "The original version(s) of FFVI are still available to play and we think if people are that attached, they won't be playing this anyway". That would be so unprofessional. Square would NEVER do that. When retranslating a game, you need to think about if the original developers had retranslated it themselves in the modern day. You need to think about what they would and wouldn't do, even with all the capital in the world.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 10, 2019, 10:12:09 pm
Your mind is made up now apparently but I'm gonna chime in anyway.  :P

My whole attraction to what you were doing was "this is different!" I got really excited to get a unique experience from your script, and that includes my expectation of new terminology across the board in the spirit of the Japanese game.

I know from my own translation experiences how much this pisses people off, but the reasons are silly. If people are attached at the hip to the old terminology, pardon the caps but--PLAY THE OLD VERSION!!!!! Why do people argue to impose old terminology on a new translation? I simply can't understand it.

If you want to do a script that uses all the old conventions and style but makes a couple improvements or decensors here and there, then do that. (it's already been done unfortunately...) But if you want to translate it in a way that reflects the meaning and feeling of the Japanese script, then go all the way with that, and ignore everyone with anything to say against it. They almost certainly won't be playing your version anyway.

And I'm not saying that the terminology needs to sound awkward. There is nearly always a way to make it sound good and preserve the meaning.

I fully agree and that's why I can't stand the SNES FF6 cultists that get pissed and whiny when you call the spell Firaga instead of "fire 3". They sound like KJV-only fundamentalists. Go look at the GameFAQs reviews for FF6 Advance, a guy is pretty much having a tantrum over every line especially the Opera. Go to LPs at youtube for the PC or GBA version, whiners in the comments posting "iT iS cAlLeD sUpLeX" like clockwork.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 10, 2019, 10:22:14 pm
I think the professional thing to do here is just go with Four Fiends. If the game had never been localized and people didn’t have a strong attachment to it, then I would call it “the Chaos Four” (or something similar, with the word Chaos in there), but these translation projects are also meant to be to the modern English remake versions as the original Famicom versions are to the modern Japanese remake versions.

Now, I don’t want to go too overboard with patch options, but if people want the name connection to Chaos maintained, I’m willing to provide that as an alternate patch option. Either that, or call them “Four Fiends” but throw in the full “Four Fiends of Chaos” somewhere just once in the script (though I worry even that would piss people off).

I didn’t play my first FF game (FF1 GBA) until my late teens, beat FF1, then FF2, then read more about the series and began work on translating the Famicom FF2. That was only about 3-4 years ago. So I didn’t grow up playing the series like the rest of you, and I see that people have strong feelings towards what they grew up with (I grew up playing Pokémon), so it might be difficult for me to understand some “Final Fantasy etiquette”. For now, it’s been made clear to me that sticking with “Four Fiends” is the safe and professional choice.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 10, 2019, 10:26:18 pm
For the record, while I did grow up with FF1, I have zero attachment to the names. I didn't mean to imply that. And I don't feel super-strongly about this project nor am I trying to be hyper-critical of it...I'm only trying to be helpful.

I just think the professional thing to do with the terminology is to leave it alone except where necessary (Firaga, etc) until such time as Square decides otherwise.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 10, 2019, 11:33:28 pm
Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 10, 2019, 11:59:11 pm
Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

I’m with you, Chicken Knife. Like I said, if people are unhappy with a faithful translation, why are they playing this romhack? However, if the romhack is being described as a modern localization that aligns with more recent decisions by Square Enix, people will certainly be confused by random faithful translations thrown in seemingly at random.

If I’m choosing to play a romhack, it’s because I read the description and I’m interested in what it claims to do. For Chaos Rush, how do you plan to describe this translation? What is the expectation you’ll be setting with potential players? Whatever the answer, I say go with it and do what feels like it accomplishes the goal. At the end of the day, plenty of people will be thankful for your work creating it, but there will always be some people who want a few things changed here and there.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 11, 2019, 12:08:18 am
Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that (although it's already been done in this case.) If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating.

I get a clear sense Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is ultimately fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.
The goal here is be faithful but in a professional way, where these translations are as to the English remakes as the original Famicom versions are to the Japanese remakes. Item names are one thing people can debate over, but one thing that will ignore 100% whatever changes that later remakes did is NPC dialogue, which I will do my best to capture the tone of the text in the original Famicom version - such as the shop attendants being kind of lazy and casual (as opposed to FF2 and onwards when they use keigo), as well as the game being a bit sarcastic with you when you try to use magic in a place you're not supposed to:

(https://i.imgur.com/RpoFAfJ.png)

What I'm going for here is a balance between using canon terminology and altering stuff like dialogue to be more faithful to the original (such as the menu text not taking itself too seriously). I don't know if you can read katakana but you'll notice that not all of the canon spell names are the romanized forms of the original - for instance Focus in the Japanese version is actually Shape, and Temper in the Japanese version is actually "Sutorai"(I'm assuming based off of English word 'strike'), and Confuse is "Konfu/Confu". You can see why in these cases I'm just gonna go with what Square Enix does because it would open a huge can of worms if I used the romanized versions of the original spell names.

The "Chaos vs Fiends" debate is one thing, and I only felt it was important to bring up because in the Japanese version they're the "Four Chaos" that lead up to the big bad Chaos (Garland). I can bring up a bunch of other examples that would open a whole other can of worms. In fact I'll do it right now, but I'm for sure just gonna stick with the English GBA version name for these:

FC: めざめのくすり (Wake-up Medicine)
NES: HERB
GBA: Jolt Tonic

FC: くうきのみず  (Water of Air/Air's Water)
NES: OXYALE
GBA: Oxyale

FC: スーパーモンク (Super Monk)
NES: MASTER
GBA: Master

and of course, this is up for debate but:

FC: 4つのカオス (Chaos of Four/the Chaos Four)
NES: Four Fiends
GBA: Four Fiends

Now while there might be good reason to use "the Chaos Four", then you'd expect that I'd retranslate the other terms as well such as "Water of Air" or "Super Monk", but I'm not gonna do that. Sometimes names are localized for a reason.

What it comes down to is that this is going to be to the English GBA version as the FC version is to the Japanese GBA version. Meaning that terminology will be (near)identical to the English GBA version, but NPC dialogues will be retranslated and stay true to the original FC version.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 11, 2019, 12:09:16 am
Four Fiends vs Chaos Four is one small point. My concern was about the overall situation here. I'm pretty sure this kind of issue will come up repeatedly. Either it's going to be a faithful Japanese translation or it isn't. And the whole reason I'm taking the time to comment on this thread is that this translation seemed to be laid out as a faithful one. No one should try to please everyone with a romhack when they are pretty much the most niche thing in existence to begin with.

To the comments from BlazeHeatnix about how people would play this patch to get a taste of the original experience with uncensored graphics--those already exist. If you are talking about the original US experience anyway. The whole point of this kind of project (if I didn't catch it wrong and it really is about providing a faithful translation) would be to capture the real original experience, which is the Japanese game that Sakaguchi designed--not whatever whims were applied by the US localization team that just so happened to become nostalgic for everyone. And as far as those points about falling in line with modern localizations, that all comes down to what the purpose of the hack is. If it's to modernize, then be modern. Who cares about the Japanese script at that point? If it's to make improvements and decensor, then do that. If it's to be faithful, then be faithful, which in the case of FF1 would be something new and fascinating. No one is beholden to what Square Enix has done with the series. Again, this is only a romhack.

I'm getting a sense that Chaos Rush ultimately isn't looking to aim towards that faithful translation here, which is fine, but I would suggest that we really focus on what the goal is and not make it a popularity contest.

I’m with you, Chicken Knife. Like I said, if people are unhappy with a faithful translation, why are they playing this romhack? However, if the romhack is being described as a modern localization that aligns with more recent decisions by Square Enix, people will certainly be confused by random faithful translations thrown in seemingly at random.

If I’m choosing to play a romhack, it’s because I read the description and I’m interested in what it claims to do. For Chaos Rush, how do you plan to describe this translation? What is the expectation you’ll be setting with potential players? Whatever the answer, I say go with it and do what feels like it accomplishes the goal. At the end of the day, plenty of people will be thankful for your work creating it, but there will always be some people who want a few things changed here and there.

whether this is a faithful translation, or a modern localization, can't we just all just agree that this project is supposed to be a merger of the two? Cause I think that was the whole point with the other translations Chaos Rush worked on.

Edit: I'm aware that my post came a minute after Chaos Rush's in case mine is irrelevant at this point. But that's what happens when u need to double check what u type.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 11, 2019, 12:44:03 am
Honestly, so what if Chaos Rush translates this or that in whatever way he wants? Isn't this HIS project? Fan translations that maintain official terminology are pretty much the only translations I actually play, so this is right up my alley. If the same can't be said for you, that gives you no right to criticize him (even unintentionally). If it bothers you that much, what's stopping you from trying to learn how to make your own hacks?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 11, 2019, 02:34:23 am
Chaos is not being pressured to do anything by us. It's a healthy open discussion. We know it's his call at the end. We're far past the elitism cult and the "bending over my AUTHOR GOD because i'm so grateful or else ban AND MAKE IT URSELF N00B" years. That's what gave us stuff like the J2Es, the Dejaps, and all these punched up fansubs that threatened you with bans for even wanting to download it.

Team efforts, at least in the form of civil discussions, make these projects shine, it's all out of collective love of a fandom for the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 11, 2019, 03:49:20 am
I'm glad we had this discussion. This project won't be finished for a while so we will have plenty of time to discuss whether or not the entities canonically known in English as "The Four Fiends" should be called something else, but for now I am sticking with canon (even though I personally disagree with it). I think it's the professional thing to do, and if someone were to play my translation and then play the GBA/PSP/iOS remake, then they wouldn't be thrown off by anything.

In other news, I've completed translating all menu and battle text, so now I can focus on the story dialogue. Here are some screenshots of what I worked on today. I can't guarantee that the final text will be exactly like this, as somewhere down the line I may end up having to compress.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ib7oaHH.png) (https://i.imgur.com/nFE55jk.png) (https://i.imgur.com/nEdKnIv.png) (https://i.imgur.com/FLb7Lwe.png) (https://i.imgur.com/Cyja1TD.png) (https://i.imgur.com/tKMCCkL.png) (https://i.imgur.com/btQYg8g.png)

While my FF2 and FF3 translations were somewhat of a midway point between translation and script port, for FF1 I want to make it clear (if I haven't already) that this really is a retranslation of the original Japanese Famicom script. I'm still looking at the GBA script (both Japanese and English) of course, but the Japanese GBA version added so much (moreso than FF2 and FF3) which is what became Dawn of Souls in the US and Europe, and in FF1's case the Dawn of Souls script really isn't usable in the same way that FF2's was (FF3's DS remake kept most of the NPC lines the same, but changed some stuff in the story cutscenes to develop the new characters).

With that said, I hope you guys trust me :) I'll try to post many screenshots so if you notice any typos or if anything sounds too "translated from Japanese-ey", please point it out.

EDIT: One thing I wanna point out, I know that official remakes uses "Warriors of Light" as opposed to "Light Warriors". In my FF3 translation I really had to squeeze every byte of space out possible, so in that I went with "Light Warriors" just to save space. For my FF1 translation, for the sake of consistency with my FF3 translation, I am going with "Light Warriors". If I can free up enough space in a future update for FF3 to use "Warriors of Light", then I will update FF1 to use "Warriors of Light" as well.

EDIT: dammit noticed my own typo, I’m aware that in the last screenshot “Princess” shouldn’t be capitalized. I’m aware that royal titles are capitalized if the name is there (such as “Princess Sara”) but not if the name isn’t.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 11, 2019, 04:48:24 am
Is the PSX Origins release any good? Didn't these keep the original script?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Bregalad on July 11, 2019, 04:57:50 am
Maybe it's just me but I found this font totally unreadable when there's no blank line between the text lines (that also hold for the official FF1 translation by the way).

Is there no way to either add balnk space between lines (like the japanese original) or make a font that's more readable when written compact ?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 11, 2019, 08:55:29 am
...call them “Four Fiends” but throw in the full “Four Fiends of Chaos” somewhere just once in the script...

This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 11, 2019, 09:38:53 am
This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.

I like that idea quite a bit.

I know you're using the FFIV font like you did for II and III but I was wondering if you were planning on giving options later on for the NES FFI and FFVI (Chicago). If not, I can always add it to my Font Options package.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cristal on July 11, 2019, 11:07:30 am
Now, I don’t want to go too overboard with patch options, but if people want the name connection to Chaos maintained, I’m willing to provide that as an alternate patch option. Either that, or call them “Four Fiends” but throw in the full “Four Fiends of Chaos” somewhere just once in the script (though I worry even that would piss people off).

Just my 2 cents, but I wonder how bothered people would really get over Four Fiends of Chaos. "Four Fiends" is retained, the rest is just a complement. Besides, "Chaos" is a word everyone is already familiar with because of the final boss. It's not like it's an unknown/alien term that was never used anywhere.

To me it sounds so natural that while I know I can't speak for others, I imagine most of them would not even shake while reading it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 11, 2019, 11:41:13 am
Is the PSX Origins release any good? Didn't these keep the original script?
The Japanese PSX Origins release changed some lines though not as drastically as the GBA version, and while the English PSX Origins has a readable accurate script, it reads as if it was translated once and then no one revised it for smoothness/naturalness. It’s accurate but doesn’t read very smooth, and the Japanese PSX version (that was officially translated) has revisions to the script. I also want to do my own translation of the original FC script as a personal project, and even if I wanted to do a straight script port of the PSX version you would run into issues of space.

Maybe it's just me but I found this font totally unreadable when there's no blank line between the text lines (that also hold for the official FF1 translation by the way).

Is there no way to either add balnk space between lines (like the japanese original) or make a font that's more readable when written compact ?
I’m working off of the Japanese original which did have blank lines between text and I actually manually altered the ASM code to not do so in the NPC text boxes (you’ll notice in my menu and shop screenshots that I kept the blank lines in places where the US release didn’t). It’s necessary for FF1 because FF1 doesn’t have scrolling dialogue boxes like FF2 and FF3. Rather than implementing scrolling dialogue like FF2 (and thereby making FF2 look less “advanced”), I opted to do what US FF1 did and just use single spacing.

With that said I felt the same way about the font myself after doing more NPC dialogue, so I think I will optimize the font specifically for this translation.

This is what I would consider to be the best compromise.
I think having one person in the game, someone with a more formal way of speaking, should call them thus.
I think it would add a little bit of depth to the world to have a noticeable bit of formality like that.
Plus it could help emphasize the rather stark differences between formal and informal speech that Japanese has.
If there’s a chance in the game, like one of those sages in the crescent moon lake town - I believe they talk about the Four Fiends - I think that would be a good opportunity to throw in the word Chaos somewhere.

I like that idea quite a bit.

I know you're using the FFIV font like you did for II and III but I was wondering if you were planning on giving options later on for the NES FFI and FFVI (Chicago). If not, I can always add it to my Font Options package.
Yes I’m planning that. I was messing around with fonts last night and noticed that the US FF1 font works well for single-spaced lines. I’m going to provide optional patches for the US FF1 font and the FF6 menu font (and future updates of FF2 and FF3 will do the same), but also I think I will modify the FF4 font further for this game to optimize it for single-spacing.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KingMike on July 11, 2019, 12:14:25 pm
Just out of my own curiosity, would you happen to know where I can find a list of these bugs present in the original game? I’ve only played through FF1 twice - the GBA version in English and the Famicom version in Japanese, and I’ve never played any other version. When I played through the FC version the only bug I noticed was that reviving spells don’t work in battle and that Tents and Cottages don’t save MP if you reset. I’m sure there’s more bugs though. In terms of gameplay balance I was expecting it to be a grind fest but it wasn’t bad at all, the toughest part was probably getting the first crystal but after that everything was smooth-sailing.

Allowing use of petrification-curing and revival spells/items was one of the options available to the player in the WonderSwan Color and PS1 versions (they had an option menu with a few choices for nostalgic or updated gameplay, including a run feature and the biggest one: whether or not to re-target attacks towards dead enemies).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 11, 2019, 12:42:30 pm
Not that Chaos Rush would do this, but adding automatic re-targeting to FF1 and/or FF2 would be completely against the entire point of playing them on the NES/Famicom to begin with.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 11, 2019, 06:10:05 pm
Not that Chaos Rush would do this, but adding automatic re-targeting to FF1 and/or FF2 would be completely against the entire point of playing them on the NES/Famicom to begin with.

I agree, and I have actually grown to appreciate the omission of auto-targeting. I find myself mindless mashing through battles in the games with auto-targeting (provided my party is strong enough) and FF1 and FF2 force me to strategize the distribution of my attacks on a regular basis. It makes the random encounters feel like less of a gameplay interruption because I’m actively plaything through them.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 12, 2019, 12:53:16 am
That's one of the reasons that auto-target is an option in the MMC5 Disassembly project.
Though... I always wanted to try making auto-targetting a function of a character's intelligence.
That could be an interesting middle ground to play with.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: John Enigma on July 12, 2019, 01:07:27 pm
I wonder how these Final Fantasy NES translations/retranslations compare to Chicken Knife's own Dragon Quest's NES delocalizations,  (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26951.0) which are almost going for the same aim.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 12, 2019, 02:43:53 pm
I wonder how these Final Fantasy NES translations/retranslations compare to Chicken Knife's own Dragon Quest's NES delocalizations,  (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26951.0) which are almost going for the same aim.

For FF1 (script-wise) absolutely.

But I would (mostly) compare the other FF NES retranslations to Choppasmith's Mobile-Script Port of DQ1.

The other FF retranslations utilizes names, terminologies, and parts of the script used in later ports. But it leaves out new content of script specifically made for said ports.
Any content from the original game that did not make it to the remakes were retranslated from scratch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: AdamDravian on July 12, 2019, 07:08:01 pm
I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 12, 2019, 08:06:12 pm
I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.

I second the Garland line. I’ve personally never understood the need to keep the infamous awkward translations in romhack translations. Not trying to start argument, just a thought. I can play the originals if I want lines like that. I’m playing the retranslation for a reason.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 12, 2019, 08:09:15 pm
Why are we still talking about this? It's been decided. Move on.

Yes, you can play the original if you want lines like that. But on the flipside, if you want a total retranslation with a total 100% faithful Japanese translation, there's plenty of options for that too. You don't have to play this. This isn't about keeping to canon or iconic dialog, this is about being professional. If Square had decided to retranslate this game before putting it on the NES Classic, what would they have done? The last thing any hack should do is say "Fuck Square, they don't know shit, I can do better."
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 12, 2019, 08:53:47 pm
Why are we still talking about this? It's been decided. Move on.

Yes, you can play the original if you want lines like that. But on the flipside, if you want a total retranslation with a total 100% faithful Japanese translation, there's plenty of options for that too. You don't have to play this. This isn't about keeping to canon or iconic dialog, this is about being professional. If Square had decided to retranslate this game before putting it on the NES Classic, what would they have done? The last thing any hack should do is say "Fuck Square, they don't know shit, I can do better."

You seem quite agitated by this discussion. I genuinely hope you’re doing well.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 12, 2019, 09:03:13 pm
Yes, I am agitated by people continuing to argue against ChaosRush's decisions even after he makes up his mind.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2019, 09:13:56 pm
For FF1 (script-wise) absolutely.

But I would (mostly) compare the other FF NES retranslations to Choppasmith's Mobile-Script Port of DQ1.

The other FF retranslations utilizes names, terminologies, and parts of the script used in later ports. But it leaves out new content of script specifically made for said ports.
Any content from the original game that did not make it to the remakes were retranslated from scratch.
Yep, that's pretty much how it was done. FF2 and FF3 were done by looking at the GBA and DS remake, respectively. The 2016 version of the FF3 translation (the one that was 1mb) had essentially 75% of it as a script port, and the current version is a reworked version of that. It's hard to describe the exact process of how I did them, but basically I coded tools to dump the Famicom scripts, then looked at the respective NPC's line in the remake version and removed any extra stuff that was added. In some cases I even checked the Japanese remake version on YouTube to see if the text changed between the original Famicom and the GBA/DS remake if I wasn’t sure of if a detail was added due to a script revision or just localization smoothness.

Now, FF1 is a bit of a different case because Square(-Enix) made revisions to the Japanese script twice - once in the WSC/PS1 version, and again on the GBA version, and the revisions made to FF1 were more drastic than FF2. The GBA version that was released officially in English is a translation of a heavily revised FF1 script so it's not exactly usable/abridgable to the NES like the others were because the English was written in a way to make the information presented in the Japanese GBA script flow nicely (FF2 was doable because the changes weren't as drastic).

So out of the whole trilogy, FF1 is where I'm doing an actual retranslation. Not sure if I can claim "from scratch" since I'm still looking at the GBA English script (as well as the original NES localization), but this isn't an edit of the remake script like the FF2 and FF3 ones were.

I completely agree with ChickenKnife and NeonStreetlight. To me, the appeal of this translation is to experience the game closer to its original Japanese developers intended.

Chaos Rush, you were especially concerned about the opinions of those who grew up with FF1. Well, I was 9 years old when it came out, and I had been highly anticipating its release since I was a huge fan of "Dragon Warrior". It's the first game I ever saved up for and purchased with my own money (mostly earned from mowing lawns), as opposed to receiving it as a gift. I played through it and loved every grindy unbalanced minute. So it was a very special game for me during my formative years.

That said, not only would I not be upset at you changing the "Four Fiends" title, but I'd be happy to see it changed to something that's more accurate. Hell, I woudln't even care if you got rid of "I, Garland, will knock you all down!" I've already experienced the official US localized version of the game--many, many times. Your mod, however, offers a chance for me to experience the game in a new more authentic way, and that's what appeals to me about it.

I appreciate you all voicing your opinions on this matter. I may consider making an alternate version where I make my own localization choices (Chaos Four instead of Four Fiends, "Aquair" instead of "Oxyale", no meme-Garland). I still want to make a version that adheres to canon though, because even though this will never happen, I would like to make something that Square Enix would approve of.

Here's a screenshot of my current point in the translation:
(https://i.imgur.com/sVSgBzX.png)
I've revised the FF4 font a little to make it easier to read for single-spaced lines (letters like p and g don't touch the next line anymore).

To prove I'm not talking out of my ass about this being a retranslation of the original text (not that anyone doesn't believe me),
(https://i.imgur.com/n7eQhhJ.png)
Original NES line: "I feel fine now.Thank you."
Original FC line:"私も この通り 元気に なった。ありがとう....クリスタルの戦士たち!" (literal: "[me][in this way][became well].[Thank you]...[Warriors of the Crystals/Crystal Warriors]!)

I'm just using this as an example of how I'm looking at the original text, to the point of incorporating odd places in the original script where they couldn't decide if they were the Light Warriors of the Crystal Warriors. (I'm wondering if I should just straight up write "Crystal Warriors" lol)

And here is my new text editor in its current state:
(https://i.imgur.com/Jq6EDtX.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 12, 2019, 09:31:38 pm
Yes, I am agitated by people continuing to argue against ChaosRush's decisions even after he makes up his mind.

We’re all just having a discussion here. I fully support whatever Chaos wants to do.

Yep, that's pretty much how it was done. FF2 and FF3 were done by looking at the GBA and DS remake, respectively. The 2016 version of the FF3 translation (the one that was 1mb) had essentially 75% of it as a script port, and the current version is a reworked version of that. It's hard to describe the exact process of how I did them, but basically I coded tools to dump the Famicom scripts, then looked at the respective NPC's line in the remake version and removed any extra stuff that was added. In some cases I even checked the Japanese remake version on YouTube to see if the text changed between the original Famicom and the GBA/DS remake.

Now, FF1 is a bit of a different case because Square(-Enix) made revisions to the Japanese script twice - once in the WSC/PS1 version, and again on the GBA version, and the revisions made to FF1 were more drastic than FF2. The GBA version that was released officially in English is a translation of a heavily revised FF1 script so it's not exactly usable/abridgable to the NES like the others were because the English was written in a way to make the information presented in the Japanese GBA script flow nicely (FF2 was doable because the changes weren't as drastic).

So out of the whole trilogy, FF1 is where I'm doing an actual retranslation. Not sure if I can claim "from scratch" since I'm still looking at the GBA English script (as well as the original NES localization), but this isn't an edit of the remake script like the FF2 and FF3 ones were.

I appreciate you all voicing your opinions on this matter. I may consider making an alternate version where I make my own localization choices (Chaos Four instead of Four Fiends, "Aquair" instead of "Oxyale", no meme-Garland). I still want to make a version that adheres to canon though, because even though this will never happen, I would like to make something that Square Enix would approve of.

Here's a screenshot of my current point in the translation:
(https://i.imgur.com/sVSgBzX.png)
I've revised the FF4 font a little to make it easier to read for single-spaced lines (letters like p and g don't touch the next line anymore).

And here is my new text editor in its current state:
(https://i.imgur.com/Jq6EDtX.png)

Looks like some great progress so far! Can’t wait to play through when it’s all done.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: vivify93 on July 12, 2019, 10:08:09 pm
"Crystal Warriors" works, IMO. I feel like that's a term used in some official FF... That and "Crystal-bearing Warriors" sounds a little awkward.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 12, 2019, 10:19:02 pm
"Crystal Warriors" are a group in XI. But afaik, that's not a thing in other FFs.

I much prefer Light Warriors just for the sake of consistency and canon. I don't really like the term "Crystal Warriors" because...I dunno, it just doesn't sound as catchy. I do like "Crystal Bearers" though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2019, 10:54:34 pm
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 12, 2019, 10:58:28 pm
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:

Haha focus, Chaos, focus! I’m the same way. I always want to do 5 new things before I finish the first.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2019, 11:01:07 pm
Haha focus, Chaos, focus! I’m the same way. I always want to do 5 new things before I finish the first.
:laugh: the idea just popped in my head lol. I was like “if only the GBA version didn’t have brightened colors and reworked gameplay... if only such a thing existed... oh wait”
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 12, 2019, 11:08:54 pm
:laugh: the idea just popped in my head lol. I was like “if only the GBA version didn’t have brightened colors and reworked gameplay... if only such a thing existed... oh wait”

 :laugh: that’s a slippery slope! Only about a million versions of this game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: John Enigma on July 12, 2019, 11:14:49 pm
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:
Why don't we go further: How about inserting your FF I and II scripts to the PSP ports of 'em?

After you're done, of course.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 12, 2019, 11:27:46 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/RV9buAB.png)

lol I found that DataCrystal had a text table for WSCFF1 and this is just me screwing around with a hex editor haha

Okay, back to work on the NES translation...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 12, 2019, 11:34:05 pm
Now, I don’t want to bite off more than I could chew, but would anyone want to see these FF1 and FF2 scripts ported to the WSC versions? I’ve never hacked WSC before but I’m assuming space isn’t as restricted as NES so it might not be too hard to inject the scripts into them, and looks like they already have a built-in English font as well. And then maybe someone can hack WSC FF1 or GBA FF1 and remake FF3 on it :laugh:

The WSC versions have abysmal sound quality, to the point where they're not worth playing IMO. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMywpJ2GDqk) I think it'd be much more worth your time to attempt hacking Origins instead. Of course, I would still prefer to see the NES version prioritized over any others.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on July 12, 2019, 11:47:49 pm
A translation for FF1WSC would be interesting in my point of view, because the translation available is a literal copypaste of the NES translation, add the fact how unifinished the menus and the cutscenes are
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 13, 2019, 01:07:10 am
Hmm, that bit about the Light Warriors/Crystal Warriors works really well with my headcanon theory that the Light Warriors are actually manifestations of the Crystals, explaining why they're able to stop Garland's time loop at all, rather than falling victim to it, like everyone else.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 13, 2019, 03:14:45 am
Why don't we go further: How about inserting your FF I and II scripts to the PSP ports of 'em?

After you're done, of course.

It probably won't be necessary for FFII, because Chaos Rush's script and the script from the PSP port are based on the script of the GBA port.

"Crystal Warriors" works, IMO. I feel like that's a term used in some official FF... That and "Crystal-bearing Warriors" sounds a little awkward.

Aren't u thinking of "Crystal-Bearers?" I've heard that term used before in FFXIV (or am I thinking about that Jim Henson movie?).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 13, 2019, 03:57:41 am
Okay, so I've found something interesting, but first let me start off by explaining this:

Left is FC, middle is NES, right is my translation
(https://i.imgur.com/5XwKwXJ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/YHpfX2d.png) (https://i.imgur.com/bxhpN0p.png)

The original line with the words rendered in kanji is:「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

A literal-style awkward translation would be: Earth Fire Water Wind, each of those four crystals shine with a power. The four Chaos interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

And I'm writing that line as, "Earth, Fire, Water, Wind. The four Crystals each shone with a special power. The Four Fiends of Chaos have seized those powers for their own use."

Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what the GBA translation did, so I checked, and this is what I found that's interesting:
(https://i.imgur.com/AztRcew.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8ufibnh.png)
(credit to Youtuber Cendril89 for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Yup, looks like "Four Fiends of Chaos" is canon.

And this is what the Japanese GBA version says, which is different from the original FC text even when applying kanji to the FC text (Compare with the FC version screenshot up above):
(https://i.imgur.com/SfYhIOy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/ALZChnt.png)
(credit to Youtuber くるとん for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Literal translation:
"The four Crystals that exist in this world..." "Have now lost their light. The four Chaos have interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

It's already at the top of this post but here's the original FC line so you don't have to scroll up: 「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

So, main point is, looks like the English GBA version refers to them as "Four Fiends" but has that one sage say "Four Fiends of Chaos" as a full title, which is what I thought would be the best way to go anyways!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 13, 2019, 04:09:00 am
I thought that was a good idea anyway, but that's neat that it's canon.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: AdamDravian on July 13, 2019, 04:21:44 am
Yes, I am agitated by people continuing to argue against ChaosRush's decisions even after he makes up his mind.

I chimed in with my thoughts on the matter specifically because Chaos Rush expressed interest in hearing from gamers who grew up with the game and had strong nostalgic ties to it, which he personally lacks. Besides, he did not say the matter was closed for discussion and in fact, just a few days ago he said, "I’ll just see how discussion plays out over the next several days(weeks?)." So I did not think it was unwarranted for me to provide input. Not sure why this would agitate you.


I appreciate you all voicing your opinions on this matter. I may consider making an alternate version where I make my own localization choices (Chaos Four instead of Four Fiends, "Aquair" instead of "Oxyale", no meme-Garland). I still want to make a version that adheres to canon though, because even though this will never happen, I would like to make something that Square Enix would approve of.

Such an optional patch would be highly appreciated. Thanks for considering it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 13, 2019, 05:40:36 am
Okay, so I've found something interesting, but first let me start off by explaining this:

Left is FC, middle is NES, right is my translation
(https://i.imgur.com/5XwKwXJ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/YHpfX2d.png) (https://i.imgur.com/bxhpN0p.png)

The original line with the words rendered in kanji is:「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

A literal-style awkward translation would be: Earth Fire Water Wind, each of those four crystals shine with a power. The four Chaos interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

And I'm writing that line as, "Earth, Fire, Water, Wind. The four Crystals each shone with a special power. The Four Fiends of Chaos have seized those powers for their own use."

Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what the GBA translation did, so I checked, and this is what I found that's interesting:
(https://i.imgur.com/AztRcew.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8ufibnh.png)
(credit to Youtuber Cendril89 for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Yup, looks like "Four Fiends of Chaos" is canon.

And this is what the Japanese GBA version says, which is different from the original FC text even when applying kanji to the FC text (Compare with the FC version screenshot up above):
(https://i.imgur.com/SfYhIOy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/ALZChnt.png)
(credit to Youtuber くるとん for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Literal translation:
"The four Crystals that exist in this world..." "Have now lost their light. The four Chaos have interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

It's already at the top of this post but here's the original FC line so you don't have to scroll up: 「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

So, main point is, looks like the English GBA version refers to them as "Four Fiends" but has that one sage say "Four Fiends of Chaos" as a full title, which is what I thought would be the best way to go anyways!

DO IT!! DOOOO IIIIIIDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 13, 2019, 09:02:13 am
Okay, so I've found something interesting, but first let me start off by explaining this:

Left is FC, middle is NES, right is my translation
(https://i.imgur.com/5XwKwXJ.png) (https://i.imgur.com/YHpfX2d.png) (https://i.imgur.com/bxhpN0p.png)

The original line with the words rendered in kanji is:「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

A literal-style awkward translation would be: Earth Fire Water Wind, each of those four crystals shine with a power. The four Chaos interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

And I'm writing that line as, "Earth, Fire, Water, Wind. The four Crystals each shone with a special power. The Four Fiends of Chaos have seized those powers for their own use."

Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what the GBA translation did, so I checked, and this is what I found that's interesting:
(https://i.imgur.com/AztRcew.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8ufibnh.png)
(credit to Youtuber Cendril89 for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Yup, looks like "Four Fiends of Chaos" is canon.

And this is what the Japanese GBA version says, which is different from the original FC text even when applying kanji to the FC text (Compare with the FC version screenshot up above):
(https://i.imgur.com/SfYhIOy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/ALZChnt.png)
(credit to Youtuber くるとん for these pics of which I took screenshots of)
Literal translation:
"The four Crystals that exist in this world..." "Have now lost their light. The four Chaos have interrupted those powers and have "put it in their hands"(typical expression for obtaining something)

It's already at the top of this post but here's the original FC line so you don't have to scroll up: 「土 日 水 風 の 4つのクリスタルはそれぞれの力によって輝いている。4匹のカオスがそれを遮って力を手に入れようとしている。」

So, main point is, looks like the English GBA version refers to them as "Four Fiends" but has that one sage say "Four Fiends of Chaos" as a full title, which is what I thought would be the best way to go anyways!

This is hilarious. Your solution didn’t even seem obvious, yet a completely different translation team thought of the exact same solution over a decade ago and none of us knew it. I guess you’re moving in the right direction!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KingMike on July 13, 2019, 12:17:51 pm
A translation for FF1WSC would be interesting in my point of view, because the translation available is a literal copypaste of the NES translation, add the fact how unifinished the menus and the cutscenes are

I believe the point of the translation (was it RPGOne as was the group doing FF2WSC?) was to do a "round 1" translation which copy-pasted the existing translation to make something playable, and then a round 2 patch with a translation the group wrote themselves.
(in the case of RPGOne, the plan was to use the Demiforce translation for the first phase)
But that second phase never happened for either patch, I guess.

That FF1WSC translation group... was Tomato the re-translator on that one, or someone else? I think Tomato did a translation (at least himself), but then realized it might've affected his professional career to disclose it. Maybe that could be why it never reached the final state.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 14, 2019, 12:59:07 am
Now here's another thing I'd like your guys' feedback on:
(https://i.imgur.com/NEckcAI.png)

I'm sure you guys already know the story on this sprite (read this if you don't (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Evil_Eye_(Final_Fantasy))).
When I played FC FF1 on my 3DS (the first six FF's are on the Japan eShop), they changed this guy's graphic to the one in the US release. I don't remember if they changed his name as well, but I do know that the FF1&2 multicart also changes this monster to the US graphics, but they didn't change his name. Seems they didn't change his name in the Japanese version until the WSC or PS version.

Now, this being a translation of the original FF1, obviously this guy will have his original sprite.

My question is, should he be called "Beholder" or "Evil Eye"? I'm leaning towards calling him Beholder, and only named him "EvilEye" because of wanting to adhere to canon, but it's just funny how it seems like the more I work on this trying to maintain SE canon the more issues I run into lol.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 14, 2019, 01:04:24 am
I say Beholder because this is a special case, a monster that even the Japanese version covered up as the Evil Eye, and that gives it historical value as the original Japanese release.

Speaking of enemy names, will it be Death Machine as in Japan/GBA or Warmech as in every other release?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 14, 2019, 01:18:15 am
I say Beholder because this is a special case, a monster that even the Japanese version covered up as the Evil Eye, and that gives it historical value as the original Japanese release.

Speaking of enemy names, will it be Death Machine as in Japan/GBA or Warmech as in every other release?
I've used 'Warmech' primarily for space reasons. 'Warmech' looks better than 'DthMachine' or 'DeathMCHN' or something like that. I really had to crunch in the enemy names to the point where I removed spaces between enemy names with two words. I did my best to only use abbrevations for names that exceeded 10 chars but chose to remove spaces between two-word enemy names to save data space in order to make the names fit, and even had to move the last few names to a different section of the ROM (and this is with DTE compression). I've already expanded enemy names to 4+ longer than they were in the Japanese version, and any more would require a drastic reworking of the battle interface (like FF Restored).

(don't worry, I can make "Beholder" and "D.Beholder"(Death Beholder) fit)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 14, 2019, 01:50:53 am
Now here's another thing I'd like your guys' feedback on:
(https://i.imgur.com/NEckcAI.png)

I'm sure you guys already know the story on this sprite (read this if you don't (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Evil_Eye_(Final_Fantasy))).
When I played FC FF1 on my 3DS (the first six FF's are on the Japan eShop), they changed this guy's graphic to the one in the US release. I don't remember if they changed his name as well, but I do know that the FF1&2 multicart also changes this monster to the US graphics, but they didn't change his name. Seems they didn't change his name in the Japanese version until the WSC or PS version.

Now, this being a translation of the original FF1, obviously this guy will have his original sprite.

My question is, should he be called "Beholder" or "Evil Eye"? I'm leaning towards calling him Beholder, and only named him "EvilEye" because of wanting to adhere to canon, but it's just funny how it seems like the more I work on this trying to maintain SE canon the more issues I run into lol.

I say Beholder because this is a special case, a monster that even the Japanese version covered up as the Evil Eye, and that gives it historical value as the original Japanese release.

Speaking of enemy names, will it be Death Machine as in Japan/GBA or Warmech as in every other release?

I second H.P.H.'s opinion. Even if this translation is supposed to be something Square Enix would be proud of, it's still based off of the original game.

And the Beholder doesn't even look like an Evil Eye (even though it does have one eye on its front).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 14, 2019, 02:18:12 am
It should be Beholder. This is a special case where Evil Eye is just an entirely different monster.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: CoolCatBomberMan on July 14, 2019, 02:36:20 am
Yeah, Squeenix isn't exactly trying to cover up the Beholder's inclusion in the original release. FFI PSP and the Ultimania Compilation artbook both include Amano's original artwork for it (albeit referred to as the Evil Eye).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 14, 2019, 05:18:45 am
Yeah, Squeenix isn't exactly trying to cover up the Beholder's inclusion in the original release. FFI PSP and the Ultimania Compilation artbook both include Amano's original artwork for it (albeit referred to as the Evil Eye).

Then again... the Beholder does kinda look like an Evil Eye.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 14, 2019, 06:03:29 am
I've used 'Warmech' primarily for space reasons. 'Warmech' looks better than 'DthMachine' or 'DeathMCHN' or something like that. I really had to crunch in the enemy names to the point where I removed spaces between enemy names with two words. I did my best to only use abbrevations for names that exceeded 10 chars but chose to remove spaces between two-word enemy names to save data space in order to make the names fit, and even had to move the last few names to a different section of the ROM (and this is with DTE compression). I've already expanded enemy names to 4+ longer than they were in the Japanese version, and any more would require a drastic reworking of the battle interface (like FF Restored).

(don't worry, I can make "Beholder" and "D.Beholder"(Death Beholder) fit)

I say you should stick with Beholder.
If someone really wants to, they can make a tiny addendum patch to change the name and/or graphic to the later version.

On the subject of Death Machine, why not call it "DeathMech" if it can fit?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 14, 2019, 08:26:04 am
Now here's another thing I'd like your guys' feedback on:
(https://i.imgur.com/NEckcAI.png)

I'm sure you guys already know the story on this sprite (read this if you don't (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Evil_Eye_(Final_Fantasy))).
When I played FC FF1 on my 3DS (the first six FF's are on the Japan eShop), they changed this guy's graphic to the one in the US release. I don't remember if they changed his name as well, but I do know that the FF1&2 multicart also changes this monster to the US graphics, but they didn't change his name. Seems they didn't change his name in the Japanese version until the WSC or PS version.

Now, this being a translation of the original FF1, obviously this guy will have his original sprite.

My question is, should he be called "Beholder" or "Evil Eye"? I'm leaning towards calling him Beholder, and only named him "EvilEye" because of wanting to adhere to canon, but it's just funny how it seems like the more I work on this trying to maintain SE canon the more issues I run into lol.

My vote goes to Beholder because I like keeping it in its original form for historical purposes. That being said, I don’t see much of a difference between this situation and the others that have come up so far (four chaos, death machine, the infamous knock you down line, etc.). I don’t think many people are attached to the name “Evil Eye,” but it is definitely the “official” name.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 14, 2019, 10:17:52 am
I say Beholder is the monster in the game you're translating. It's a different monster in the NES and later releases known as the Evil Eye. So Beholder gets my vote.

As for the infamous "Knock you all down" line, I think it should remain. Same with Light Warriors. There comes a point where translating to English doesn't work when done literally and official Canon terms and memorable quotes make for great localization choices. You could make a straight literal translation to make some people happy as an alternative. Maybe we should change all English dubs and subtitles in Godzilla movies to Gojira then too.

Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 14, 2019, 12:06:31 pm
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cavery210 on July 14, 2019, 02:02:28 pm
Any plans to port your script into the MSX version of FF1?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 14, 2019, 02:28:42 pm
Personally I think if there is a character limit you need to adhere to, then unless it's a series-wide reoccurring term, it makes a lot more sense to use something that cleanly fits in that space without abbreviations. Localization is all about economy of words and being able to work within what you're given. Besides, "Warmech" is a valid translation of "Death Machine" anyway, and it's an iconic name for the first superboss in RPG history.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 14, 2019, 10:20:00 pm
And Warmech was adopted by other FF games too.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 14, 2019, 10:22:33 pm
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)

Why don't u just call the Lesser Tiger as "L. Tiger" or "LeserTiger" or "LessrTiger or "LsserTiger" in case u need to abridge the name to fit into the 10 letter limit.

I'm bringing this up, cause NES games use that technique when localizing a game. And its been used before in Mako's relocalized script for Earthbound Beginnings, when he transfered names and terminologies from Earthbound/Mother 2 to the first game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: AdamDravian on July 14, 2019, 11:15:04 pm
(However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)


Hahaha, I love Kitty Tiger. And it fits with the more light-hearted tone of the Japanese FF1.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 15, 2019, 12:44:00 am
Alright, I’ve changed the name of the monster to Beholder, since it’s arguable that it’s not the same monster as the Evil Eye. When the script is ported the FF1&2 multicart I think it’ll have to be Evil Eye though because they changed that monster to the Evil Eye graphics in that.

With that said I’m not against using “Death Machine” instead of “Warmech” but in this case “Warmech” fits in the 10-char limit nice and cleanly without abbreviations. There’s a couple other monsters with a completely different name in the GBA localization (that have nothing to do with the NES localization name) and while it’s very few, Warmech is among that list and I feel like if I changed Warmech then I would have to change the others too, such as “F.Element[al]”(Fire Elemental) to “Fire”(ファイアー), “W.Element[al]”(Water Elemental) to “Water”(ワォーター). In those cases I think those names should only be changed in the non-canon patch I’m planning. (However, not to play devil’s advocate, but in the “canon” patch I’ve renamed Lesser Tiger to its Japanese name of Kitty Tiger purely to fit the 10-char limit)

I still think Deathmech would be better and it fits in the 10 character limit.
This one is more a case of censorship than technical limits anyway.
So since you uncensored EvilEye it would make sense do the same for Warmech.

@BlazeHeatnix: I wouldn't call Warmech a valid translation, an acceptable localization, sure.
But I see it as a somewhat questionable translation, strictly speaking.

@Heaven Piercing Man: Actually, Death Machine is used throughout the series more often than Warmech.

WarMech is only used in FF1 and it's remakes; plus in FFLegend2 (SaGa II).

In the first FFLegend (SaGa) it was just called Machine.

In FF6 it had a piloted flying mech graphic and the US version called it Sky Base.

FF4 Advance had Death Machine but used a big mecha head graphic.
FF4: The After Years and FF Dimensions II used both the original name and design.
FF7 and Crisis Core both have a Death Machine that uses their standard mecha model; plus a pixel art version is used in both FF Pictologica and FF All The Bravest.
FF Crystal Chronicles The Crystal Bearers and Echoes of Time both have a mecha called Death Machine.

So clearly if they could use Death Machine, they probably would.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 15, 2019, 03:07:50 am
Oh, I should've explained myself better. I meant other games like FF13 have used the word "Warmech" for some mech enemies, meaning the term has earned at least some recognition.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 15, 2019, 03:08:55 am
So clearly if they could use Death Machine, they probably would.

Counterpoint: the GBA version of FF1 changed the enemy's name to Death Machine, but the PSP version changed it back into Warmech, despite being almost entirely based on the GBA translation. (Someone should look at the Japanese version of that re-release and see if it's still デスマシーン)

While I personally like Deathmech, Square seems to want to keep it as Warmech for that particular title. It's also worth noting that because of that, "Warmech" is the most current version of the name across all titles. So it's also likely that if the enemy made another appearance, it would be Warmech. It's kinda like the Orthros vs Ultros situation: Square desperately wanted Orthros to be the accepted name for a while, but the fans and localizers have made it clear they prefer Ultros.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Vanya on July 15, 2019, 11:03:45 am
Well, there is no accounting for individual localization jobs.

And if I was a betting man, I'd wager the Japanese versions all use Death Machine without exception.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KingMike on July 15, 2019, 02:44:07 pm
Since summon names in FF3 were brought up awhile ago, I was scanning some manuals and can confirm the manual to the PSP version (the JP-exclusive physical release) does list the summon spell names separate to the associated summoned monster names.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 15, 2019, 10:03:57 pm
Finally got a chance to try your new FFIII translation and I noticed in the first town, the word “elder” is capitalized inside the building (“The other Elders wish to speak with you” for example) which shouldn’t be. The person outside the building gets it right with “The elders are waiting inside.”

If I’m wrong on this grammar, someone let me know, but I think if it’s not a formal name, it should be lowercase. I’ll let you know if I find anything else, although I’m not sure I have time to play through the whole game right now. I still can’t believe how fast you got this up and running.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 15, 2019, 11:06:32 pm
I think for the main FF1 patch I’ll use “Warmech” and for the alternate patch I’ll have everything closer to the original Japanese names (though not that many of them are different).

Anyways, I’ve been on vacation for the past few weeks but it’s over now, so my time suddenly got a lot more limited. Luckily FF1 doesn’t have that much text and I estimated I’m already about 63% done with the script so hopefully I can get it out within the next few weeks. Thank you all for the discussions.

Finally got a chance to try your new FFIII translation and I noticed in the first town, the word “elder” is capitalized inside the building (“The other Elders wish to speak with you” for example) which shouldn’t be. The person outside the building gets it right with “The elders are waiting inside.”

If I’m wrong on this grammar, someone let me know, but I think if it’s not a formal name, it should be lowercase. I’ll let you know if I find anything else, although I’m not sure I have time to play through the whole game right now. I still can’t believe how fast you got this up and running.
I got the impression that “Elder” is their title because those guys seem semi-religious so I intended to capitalize them (I don’t remember if FF3 DS did too). As for how I was able to get the 512kb version out so quickly 1) I already made the tools for FF3 three years ago, just did a little modification 2) I wanted to get it over with because I felt bad lol. Apologies if it seems rushed but to be fair most of the hard work was already done 3 years ago
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 15, 2019, 11:45:04 pm
I think for the main FF1 patch I’ll use “Warmech” and for the alternate patch I’ll have everything closer to the original Japanese names (though not that many of them are different).

Anyways, I’ve been on vacation for the past few weeks but it’s over now, so my time suddenly got a lot more limited. Luckily FF1 doesn’t have that much text and I estimated I’m already about 63% done with the script so hopefully I can get it out within the next few weeks. Thank you all for the discussions.
I got the impression that “Elder” is their title because those guys seem semi-religious so I intended to capitalize them (I don’t remember if FF3 DS did too). As for how I was able to get the 512kb version out so quickly 1) I already made the tools for FF3 three years ago, just did a little modification 2) I wanted to get it over with because I felt bad lol. Apologies if it seems rushed but to be fair most of the hard work was already done 3 years ago

Doesn’t feel rushed at all! Otherwise, I wouldn’t be so impressed lol. As for the elders thing, I think if their title was “The Elders” or if you’re referring to someone named “Elder Chaos Rush,” it should be capitalized. Thoughts from others?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 16, 2019, 12:36:43 am
Doesn’t feel rushed at all! Otherwise, I wouldn’t be so impressed lol. As for the elders thing, I think if their title was “The Elders” or if you’re referring to someone named “Elder Chaos Rush,” it should be capitalized. Thoughts from others?
I just did a quick check on YouTube and Elder is indeed capitalized in the remake versions so it was intentional on my part. I’m pretty sure it’s because they’re Elder as in that’s their actual title rank in their village’s culture, not elder “because they’re old”.

With that said, FF3 DS capitalizes “Elder Topapa” when other Elders refer to him, but that one NPC outside doesn’t, which transferred over to my NES version. I think I should capitalize it there for consistency.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 16, 2019, 12:44:36 am
I just did a quick check on YouTube and Elder is indeed capitalized in the remake versions so it was intentional on my part. I’m pretty sure it’s because they’re Elder as in that’s their actual title rank in their village’s culture, not elder “because they’re old”.

With that said, FF3 DS capitalizes “Elder Topapa” when other Elders refer to him, but that one NPC outside doesn’t, which transferred over to my NES version. I think I should capitalize it there for consistency.

Interesting! Seems like something they missed in the GBA version. I’m surprised they capitalized “elders” since you wouldn’t capitalize a word like “presidents” unless you were referring to “President Lincoln” as a formal title and name. Regardless, I think matching the GBA version and making it consistent works fine.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 20, 2019, 06:36:06 am
Same with Light Warriors.

The Japanese version DOES call them Light Warriors (hikari no senshi). The crystal warriors thing is just what the elf prince calls them in that specific bit of dialogue, it's not meant to be a title. Personally I'd go with "warriors of the crystals" in that particular scene.

Imagine if after so many years, after so many re-releases, after Dissidia, after World of FF, after all the other games in the franchise that use the names, Square decided to remake FFVI and change the party members' names to their Japanese counterparts: Tina, Mash, etc. And then after outcry over how unnecessary and alienating it was, Square's defense was "The original version(s) of FFVI are still available to play and we think if people are that attached, they won't be playing this anyway". That would be so unprofessional. Square would NEVER do that. When retranslating a game, you need to think about if the original developers had retranslated it themselves in the modern day. You need to think about what they would and wouldn't do, even with all the capital in the world.

Square does that ALL the time, to the point where extremely little in English Final Fantasy has consistent names at all. And hell, it's not THAT long ago where a rom hacker that would've suggested using names like "Firaga" in a translation hack of an FF game would've been bombarded with all kinds of accusations of unprofessional orientalism and screamed at that neither Square nor any other real translator would've ever considered using such nonsensical word salad in a translation over the sensible "Fire3".

And since you mention FFVI and its names, Square has flipflopped back and forth between calling the purple octopus the accurate "Orthros" or the inaccurate-but-it's-what-I-grew-up-on-so-it's-better "Ultros" ever since the game got released, with neither name having established itself as "what he's going to be officially known as in English from now on". The names of actual main character names may have come to be regarded as sacred, but everything else seems to be pretty free game as far as preserving the inaccuracies people are used to go.

Also, I do have to say, with the disclaimer that it's incredibly unlikely I'll ever use this patch no matter what, that I agree it seems kinda silly to push this as an "accurate representation of what the original FF1 actually was like" if you're going to toss in rewritten bits and bobs from various localizations. You mentioned earlier that you were a bit worried about people accusing you of making things up for stuff like the rat tail description etc, and I can guarantee you that the moment anyone sees Garland threatening to knock them down, they're going to spend the entire rest of their playthrough wondering whether or not this or that bit actually IS what the Japanese version said. This thing isn't going to be played by bilingual players sitting there comparing scripts, it's going to be played by English speakers that were promised a translation that actually accurately translates the original script, and they're going to get suspicious the instant they encounter a line they KNOW isn't accurate.

I mean, it's your patch, obviously, but by presenting this as an actually accurate retranslation that actually represents what the original said, you're kinda building demand for an ACTUALLY accurate retranslation that ACTUALLY represents what the original said here. And I don't think that's what you intended.

(as for the four big boss dudes, I'm pretty certain the Origins translation called them the Four Chaoses)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Bregalad on July 20, 2019, 09:51:37 am
I can guarantee you that the moment anyone sees Garland threatening to knock them down
To known them all down.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 20, 2019, 11:48:38 am
I mean the only thing that I’m doing to cater to canon is 1) item, monster, and location names 2) “Four Fiends” 3) “I, Garland, will knock you all down!” That’s literally it. Just those three things. Literally everything else is retranslated, and I’ll make an extra patch that doesn’t use the 3 aforementioned things and relocalizes them. I’m not even playing through the GBA version again (just checking random things on YouTube), so this isn’t an abridged script port in ways that the FF2 and FF3 patches were. And the purpose of this isn’t to be all “my translation is the true ultimate translation har har!!!”, the purpose of this is just doing this for fun as a hobby, also to completely the trilogy since I made patches for FF2 and FF3.

Anyways it’s the weekend now so I have some time to work on this. I’m gonna continue finishing this up, just doing what I’ve been doing, I’m sure it’ll ruffle some feathers and cause arguments but oh well. Again, there will be two patches, one that strictly adheres to canon terminology, and one that doesn’t (Garland won’t knock you all down in that one). Have a good weekend everyone  :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 20, 2019, 12:16:16 pm
And the purpose of this isn’t to be all “my translation is the true ultimate translation har har!!!”

Oh, I know, I didn't mean to imply that. Just trying to make a general observation. I mean, you ARE making a point of getting the meaning in the translation close to what was actually said in the original, and tossing in all these things everyone KNOWS aren't accurate just feels like it's at odds with that, and something that'll create distrust in the rest of the translation.

(this seems to be a recent trend in general - these "accurate-but-not-TOO-accurate" retranslations that retranslate old games that had shoddy translations but make sure to keep all those presumed-to-be-memorable mistranslations from them. It's like there's some sort of unspoken rule that you're not ALLOWED to accurately represent what the Japanese original really was like because nostalgiacs get offended at the idea people might read something other than the specific line/term they read when they were kids. I dunno. It's weird. I'm rambling.)

Again, there will be two patches, one that strictly adheres to canon terminology, and one that doesn’t (Garland won’t knock you all down in that one).

I think I missed that bit earlier. That's cool.
(not sure if calling it "canon terminology" is the right phrasing, though. As I said, Square themselves aren't super consistent about what they're calling stuff in English. Even Garland doesn't talk about knocking people down in EVERY official English translation)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 20, 2019, 12:37:52 pm
Quote
And hell, it's not THAT long ago where a rom hacker that would've suggested using names like "Firaga" in a translation hack of an FF game would've been bombarded with all kinds of accusations of unprofessional orientalism and screamed at that neither Square nor any other real translator would've ever considered using such nonsensical word salad in a translation over the sensible "Fire3".

Eh, these "hEr nAmE iS mAdOnNa" cultists should be ignored.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on July 20, 2019, 12:53:57 pm
I still think the Elf Prince should call the Light Warriors, Crystal Bearers for the canon patch instead of "Crystal Warriors," because Crystal Bearers is a term used in the Final Fantasy series.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 20, 2019, 01:10:33 pm
Oh, I know, I didn't mean to imply that. Just trying to make a general observation. I mean, you ARE making a point of getting the meaning in the translation close to what was actually said in the original, and tossing in all these things everyone KNOWS aren't accurate just feels like it's at odds with that, and something that'll create distrust in the rest of the translation.

(this seems to be a recent trend in general - these "accurate-but-not-TOO-accurate" retranslations that retranslate old games that had shoddy translations but make sure to keep all those presumed-to-be-memorable mistranslations from them. It's like there's some sort of unspoken rule that you're not ALLOWED to accurately represent what the Japanese original really was like because nostalgiacs get offended at the idea people might read something other than the specific line/term they read when they were kids. I dunno. It's weird. I'm rambling.)

I think I missed that bit earlier. That's cool.
(not sure if calling it "canon terminology" is the right phrasing, though. As I said, Square themselves aren't super consistent about what they're calling stuff in English. Even Garland doesn't talk about knocking people down in EVERY official English translation)

I completely agree, Burger. So many translations go ALMOST all the way. I’ve never felt certain terms or phrases were untouchable, but many do. I’m glad there will be two patches for this!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 20, 2019, 03:09:33 pm
I think these lines should be kept for localization flavor as long as they don't take the place of the actual original content. For example, modern FF4 translations keep the "spoony bard" as a throwaway line completely apart from the rest of the Tellah rant against Edward.

Honestly, I dunno what to think about Garland's line. I'm fine with whatever, it's so harmless.

Quote
because nostalgiacs get offended at the idea people might read something other than the specific line/term they read when they were kids.

People here will kill me for this but it's really annoying how people are so attached to the OW THE EDGE "shadow slits momma's throat" line that they pretty much apologize to themselves if they have to change it, even though the original line was supposed to be ironic considering what we see in the dreams.

And when the GBA port of Tales of Phantasia got an official translation, people hated on it (just like FF6 GBA got lots of hate when it came out) because there were no "fuck like a tiger" DeJapisms, and then claimed "censorship"
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: vivify93 on July 20, 2019, 04:10:25 pm
I hate to be that asshole goes "to be fair," but...

To be fair, Tales of Phantasia GBA's translation is just so flat and rife with errors. Kangaroo, Sneaker, Milard, extremely literally-translated lines, confusing the Scarlet family for some invented woman named Scarlet, recognizing "Rhea" but not "Demeter", poor voice acting, etc. DeJap's goes in the opposite direction, though; it makes random things up to try and sound edgy and funny. I don't like it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on July 20, 2019, 04:40:09 pm
ToP GBA translation is one of the worst I know in RPG history. Although, so is DeJap's, in a different way. It's not a case of 'the SNES version was loved, that's why the GBA one is considered bad'. As pointed out above this post, there were lots of huge errors in the GBA translation.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on July 20, 2019, 05:36:54 pm
Hm, at least some of those like Kangaroo were the Cupertino effect.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: vivify93 on July 20, 2019, 07:17:59 pm
Cup of tea effect or not, it still slipped through unprofessionally into the final localization. It's abhorrent. Phantasian Productions' translation of Tales of Phantasia is probably the best one out there. You have a point where fans complain about simple name changes (Cless Alvein to Cress Albane--we all saw it coming, come on.) but not on the script as a whole. It's pretty much bland trash.

This thread isn't about Bowne-Global Solutions' butchering of ToP nor is it about DeJap's butchering of ToP. Let's get back on topic. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 20, 2019, 09:30:31 pm
Good news is that I'm 84% done with the script (FF1 has half as much text as FF2 and 1/3 as much text as FF3). Up to this point, I've written without trying to save space in mind. I reached 75% before maxing out the available space in FF1's text compile area, however I was able to free up some space again by optimizing the DTE table, and have now reached 84%. Bad news is that I've used up space again, so now I'll have to revise what I've written to use shorter phrases. With that said, don't expect the English in this to be as profound as Ted Woolsey's, but I'll prioritize making sure that all information expressed in the original script is retained. Luckily it won't be as shoved-in as FF3 was.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 21, 2019, 06:59:38 am
I'm really looking forward to this one, regardless of whether it's 100% re-translated or only 99.44% (i.e. keeping a couple lines from older official releases).  I've been making do with the "Restored" hack (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1631/) up to this point, but all the graphical changes it features just don't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 22, 2019, 12:37:54 am
Here is the release of v0.99 of the English translation of Final Fantasy!
Link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ootp2qqrh0jwbp7/FF1Translationv0.99.zip/file

Please patch to a Japanese Final Fantasy ROM for Famicom, Rev B. There is also an optional font patch included for using the font from the original NES localization, which you apply AFTER one of the main patches.

Please keep in mind that I was somewhat limited by space, so not everything is worded as beautifully as I'd like it to be, but all things considered I didn't have to compromise the script too much (as opposed to FF2 and FF3).

All NPC dialogues, story text, shop text, and item descriptions have been retranslated (mostly) from scratch.

There are two versions:

1. Default Edition
This is the default version. It strictly adheres to the terminology used in the GBA/PSP/iOS remakes of Final Fantasy. If you're a long-term fan that wants to see stuff like Garland's famous line from the original NES version retained, then this is the version for you.

2. Chaos Edition
This is an alternate version that uses alternate terminology for some names in order to be closer to the original Japanese text (maybe the power/force thing is debatable, but that's my own choice that I've thought hard about and I think 'force' fits better than 'power'). These changes have been made:
Oxyale-->Aquair
Four Fiends-->Chaos Four
Fiend Orb-->Chaos Orb
Fiend of [Element]-->Chaos of [Element]
Power of Earth-->Earthforce
Power of Fire-->Fireforce
Power of Water-->Waterforce
Power of Wind-->Windforce
Warmech-->Deathmech

Screenshots (Default Edition):
(https://i.imgur.com/aHPGCLy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/VgWAo3o.png) (https://i.imgur.com/UuH69ic.png) (https://i.imgur.com/M1jedMt.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HrzoDd3.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8SS3oR8.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0cdFscG.png)

Screenshots (Chaos Edition):
(https://i.imgur.com/WrDf6jq.png) (https://i.imgur.com/4wnl97A.png)

And lastly, here is an example of the optional US font patch, which is compatible with either edition:
(https://i.imgur.com/g7iV7ql.png)

I am aware that people would like to see this script ported to the Final Fantasy Restored and Grond's Final Fantasy hacks, and I will be working on porting it soon (shouldn't take very long). I just wanted to get something out before the weekend is over. Once that is done, then I will do an update for FF2 and FF3, then I would like to port the FF1 and FF2 translated scripts to the FF1 and FF2 multicart. In the farther future, I may try to port the scripts to the Wonderswan Color versions of FF1 and FF2.

Special thanks to Disch for his US FF1 disassembly (even though I'm working off of Japan FF1, the offsets are similar and the routines are basically the same), Lenophis for the FF1 DTE battle implementation which I ported to Japan FF1, and Team dCode for their Bigram Analysis tool which I used to make the most optimized DTE table possible for the script.

Since this is v0.99, I am going to wait until v1.0 before submitting it to the main site. I have not yet implemented expanding the player character name limit for FF1, hopefully I can do that by v1.0.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 22, 2019, 12:56:27 am
Here is the release of v0.99 of the English translation of Final Fantasy!
Link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ootp2qqrh0jwbp7/FF1Translationv0.99.zip/file

Please patch to a Japanese Final Fantasy ROM for Famicom, Rev B. There is also an optional font patch included for using the font from the original NES localization, which you apply AFTER one of the main patches.

Please keep in mind that I was somewhat limited by space, so not everything is worded as beautifully as I'd like it to be, but all things considered I didn't have to compromise the script too much (as opposed to FF2 and FF3).

There are two versions:

1. Default Edition
This is the default version. It strictly adheres to the terminology used in the GBA/PSP/iOS remakes of Final Fantasy. If you're a long-term fan that wants to see stuff like Garland's famous line from the original NES version retained, then this is the version for you.

2. Chaos Edition
This is an alternate version that uses alternate terminology for some names in order to be closer to the original Japanese text (maybe the power/force thing is debatable, but that's my own choice that I've thought hard about and I think 'force' fits better than 'power'). These changes have been made:
Oxyale-->Aquair
Four Fiends-->Chaos Four
Fiend Orb-->Chaos Orb
Fiend of [Element]-->Chaos of [Element]
Power of Earth-->Earthforce
Power of Fire-->Fireforce
Power of Water-->Waterforce
Power of Wind-->Windforce
Warmech-->Deathmech

Screenshots (Default Edition):
(https://i.imgur.com/aHPGCLy.png) (https://i.imgur.com/VgWAo3o.png) (https://i.imgur.com/UuH69ic.png) (https://i.imgur.com/M1jedMt.png) (https://i.imgur.com/HrzoDd3.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8SS3oR8.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0cdFscG.png)

Screenshots (Chaos Edition):
(https://i.imgur.com/WrDf6jq.png) (https://i.imgur.com/4wnl97A.png)

And lastly, here is an example of the optional US font patch, which is compatible with either edition:
(https://i.imgur.com/g7iV7ql.png)

I am aware that people would like to see this script ported to the Final Fantasy Restored and Grond's Final Fantasy hacks, and I will be working on porting it soon (shouldn't take very long). I just wanted to get something out before the weekend is over. Once that is done, then I will do an update for FF2 and FF3, then I would like to port the FF1 and FF2 translated scripts to the FF1 and FF2 multicart. In the farther future, I may try to port the scripts to the Wonderswan Color versions of FF1 and FF2.

Special thanks to Disch for his US FF1 disassembly (even though I'm working off of Japan FF1, the offsets are similar and the routines are basically the same), Lenophis for the FF1 DTE battle implementation which I ported to Japan FF1, and Team dCode for their Bigram Analysis tool which I used to make the most optimized DTE table possible for the script.

Since this is v0.99, I am going to wait until v1.0 before submitting it to the main site. I have not yet implemented expanding the player character name limit for FF1, hopefully I can do that by v1.0.

Congratulations!! Can’t wait to try it out. Reading those screen shots, “Chaos Four” sounds funny to me. Maybe it reminds me of the Fantastic Four or something. My vote goes to “Four Chaos.” Thanks for the alternate edition!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 22, 2019, 10:21:48 am
Forgive me if I missed the answer earlier in the thread, but does your patch for FF1 (JP) have any bug-fixes, or is it a straight re-translation?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Special on July 22, 2019, 10:28:10 am
It's a straight re-translation.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KingMike on July 22, 2019, 10:30:44 am
And since you mention FFVI and its names, Square has flipflopped back and forth between calling the purple octopus the accurate "Orthros" or the inaccurate-but-it's-what-I-grew-up-on-so-it's-better "Ultros" ever since the game got released, with neither name having established itself as "what he's going to be officially known as in English from now on". The names of actual main character names may have come to be regarded as sacred, but everything else seems to be pretty free game as far as preserving the inaccuracies people are used to go.

One point for for Ultros, whether or not it's more accurate, is that it sounds so over-the-top cheesy just like the character. :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: darthvaderx on July 22, 2019, 10:50:13 am
About FFIII, what was lost from the old translation (with expanded memory) to this new one?
Depending on the larger content, would not it be preferable to stay with the old one because I will only use in the emulator?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 22, 2019, 11:43:17 am
About FFIII, what was lost from the old translation (with expanded memory) to this new one?
Depending on the larger content, would not it be preferable to stay with the old one because I will only use in the emulator?
The old 2016 version was more or less a straight up script port of the DS version. The new version just rewords things to fit. I prioritized retaining information expressed in the original script, so nothing was “lost” except smoothness of language. Stuff like “Thanks!” instead of “You have our eternal gratitude!” for lines that were just “arigatō” in the Japanese version, “there’s a town south” instead of “there is a town south of here”, etc.. Sometimes sentences were rewritten to express the same information but in a different order or stuff like that. The old one has bugs in some spell animations that freeze the game that come from using the mapper patch, so I don’t recommend it. I think this is the last time I’ll talk about the 2016 version, it’s not coming back.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: darthvaderx on July 22, 2019, 12:02:26 pm
Thanks, so I definitely go with the new version. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Bregalad on July 22, 2019, 12:40:56 pm
I think this is the last time I’ll talk about the 2016 version, it’s not coming back.
I'm glad to hear that ! I didn't like the idea to change the mapper of FF3 to fit more text.

PS: When it comes to the upcoming FF1 patch, is there no way to make text less packed and more readable (like in the japanese original) - be it by splitting dialog boxes of 8 lines into 2 dialog boxes of 4 lines, or making the font shorter ?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Cavery210 on July 22, 2019, 01:13:00 pm
I would like an optional patch for a B Button run, as it really speeds up the game for me.

I would also like to see some changed spell names in the Chaos Edition so that they are more faithful to the Famicom version:

Focus - Shape
Sleep - Sleepel
Temper - Strike
Focura - Shara
Scourge - Clouda/Cloudkill (Clouda is a literal translation of the spell name, while Cloudkill is the name of the D&D spell it was based on)
Firaga - Figa
Teleport - Telepo
Thundaga - Thunga (Name only used in the Famicom version)
Warp - Dezone
Cure - Care
NulShock - BarThndr (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
NulBlaze - BarFire
Cura - Carera
Diara - Adia
NulFrost - BarCold
Vox - Vocal
Curaga - Careda
Healara - Healra
Diaga -  Dadia
Exit - Datelpo (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
Invisra - Invira
NulDeath - BarMagic
Curaja - Carega
Healaga - Raheala
Diaja - Gadia
NulAll - BarAll
Mythril - Mithril (as in the Lord of the Rings metal)
Crosier - Khakhara (A Budist ringed staff used in prayer, original Japanese name was Shakujo, which was Khakkhara's Japanese pronounciation)
Vorpal - Sharp
Jolt Tonic - Awakening
Pirate - SeaBandit
Buccaneer - Pirate
Sahagin - Sahuagin (Named after the D&D monster)
WhiteCroc - Whitedile
Ochu - Otyugh (Named after the D&D monster)
Remorazz - Remorhaz (Named after the D&D monster)
BlackFlan - B.Pudding
Rhyos - Gorgimera
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 22, 2019, 04:22:18 pm
Chaos, how can I best get you grammatical suggestions/fixes? It might be easier to just dump the script into a text file.

I noticed a few tiny things in Cornelia, and then the king states “I’ll have a bridge to the continent built up north” which should probably read “I’ll have a bridge to the continent up north built” or something to that effect.

July 22, 2019, 05:30:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Chaos, how can I best get you grammatical suggestions/fixes? It might be easier to just dump the script into a text file.

I noticed a few tiny things in Cornelia, and then the king states “I’ll have a bridge to the continent built up north” which should probably read “I’ll have a bridge to the continent up north built” or something to that effect.

Found an elf that states “No one knows where the Astos, king of the Dark Elves, is hiding.” I believe it should read “No one knows where Astos, King of the Dark Elves, is hiding.”
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 22, 2019, 07:38:48 pm
It's a straight re-translation.

Ah.  Is it compatible with FF Hackster Companion (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/257/), which provides an interface to bug-fix some of the original game's underlying issues?

EDIT:  I noticed something in the FF1 patch that might need to be addressed.  The shop dialog "X will be the cost" is all well and good when buying, but it seems rather out-of-place when selling.  If the same string needs to be used for both scenarios, then perhaps "X will be the price" would be a better all-purpose choice.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 22, 2019, 11:36:52 pm
I'm glad to hear that ! I didn't like the idea to change the mapper of FF3 to fit more text.

PS: When it comes to the upcoming FF1 patch, is there no way to make text less packed and more readable (like in the japanese original) - be it by splitting dialog boxes of 8 lines into 2 dialog boxes of 4 lines, or making the font shorter ?
Well it’s not “upcoming” anymore, it was released yesterday.

To answer your question, Square didn’t implement scrolling text boxes until FF2. I’m sure with some work it could be backported to FF1, but also it would kinda make the way Garland’s/Chaos’s dialogue is setup even weirder than it already is, not to mention I’m not a magical NES hacker that can implement anything. Not saying I’m against seeing FF2-style text boxes implemented though, I just feel like that’s something that would break the boundary between translation and hack, especially with how NPC’s like endgame Garland is setup with his “movement” being designed with FF1’s single text box system in mind.

I would like an optional patch for a B Button run, as it really speeds up the game for me.

I would also like to see some changed spell names in the Chaos Edition so that they are more faithful to the Famicom version:

Focus - Shape
Sleep - Sleepel
Temper - Strike
Focura - Shara
Scourge - Clouda/Cloudkill (Clouda is a literal translation of the spell name, while Cloudkill is the name of the D&D spell it was based on)
Firaga - Figa
Teleport - Telepo
Thundaga - Thunga (Name only used in the Famicom version)
Warp - Dezone
Cure - Care
NulShock - BarThndr (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
NulBlaze - BarFire
Cura - Carera
Diara - Adia
NulFrost - BarCold
Vox - Vocal
Curaga - Careda
Healara - Healra
Diaga -  Dadia
Exit - Datelpo (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
Invisra - Invira
NulDeath - BarMagic
Curaja - Carega
Healaga - Raheala
Diaja - Gadia
NulAll - BarAll
Mythril - Mithril (as in the Lord of the Rings metal)
Crosier - Khakhara (A Budist ringed staff used in prayer, original Japanese name was Shakujo, which was Khakkhara's Japanese pronounciation)
Vorpal - Sharp
Jolt Tonic - Awakening
Pirate - SeaBandit
Buccaneer - Pirate
Sahagin - Sahuagin (Named after the D&D monster)
WhiteCroc - Whitedile
Ochu - Otyugh (Named after the D&D monster)
Remorazz - Remorhaz (Named after the D&D monster)
BlackFlan - B.Pudding
Rhyos - Gorgimera
This is something I may consider for future updates, but also I believe that some names are localized for good reason. Sure that logic might conflict with making the Chaos Edition patch in the first place, but I think stuff like this is something that needs to be considered on an individual basis.

The monsters using D&D spellings I understand, but I’m not a fan of changing the spell names to the point where stuff that was consistent in the Japanese FF trilogy is no longer consistent in the English translations. That, and just because a term in the Japanese version was based off of an English word doesn’t exactly mean the word itself would work in English. But again, stuff like this is something I’ll consider carefully on a case-by-case basis for the next update.

Also 海賊 means pirate, sure if you break up the kanji you get “sea bandit” but by all means it refers to the same thing that the English word pirate refers to. Of course, I’m aware that Buccaneer being called パイレーツ in the original doesn’t help the situation of how to differentiate them in English.

Chaos, how can I best get you grammatical suggestions/fixes? It might be easier to just dump the script into a text file.

I noticed a few tiny things in Cornelia, and then the king states “I’ll have a bridge to the continent built up north” which should probably read “I’ll have a bridge to the continent up north built” or something to that effect.

July 22, 2019, 05:30:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Found an elf that states “No one knows where the Astos, king of the Dark Elves, is hiding.” I believe it should read “No one knows where Astos, King of the Dark Elves, is hiding.”
For now I don’t mind you just posting it here, but I can provide a text dump sometime later this week (I work full-time in front of a computer now, so I’m not exactly eager to get on my PC when I get home for health reasons. Typing this from my phone lol)

A couple things I want to say:
* space is limited and influenced how phrases were written
* I’m in a situation where English is not my first language, but it also happens to be my “best” language (hopefully saying that doesn’t open a can of worms about whether I should even be doing these projects lol), so there may be some grammar mistakes here and there.

I appreciate any typo corrections, and encourage you to find more and I will gladly update them!

Ah.  Is it compatible with FF Hackster Companion (http://www.romhacking.net/utilities/257/), which provides an interface to bug-fix some of the original game's underlying issues?

EDIT:  I noticed something in the FF1 patch that might need to be addressed.  The shop dialog "X will be the cost" is all well and good when buying, but it seems rather out-of-place when selling.  If the same string needs to be used for both scenarios, then perhaps "X will be the price" would be a better all-purpose choice.

It’s probably not compatible because the offsets in FF1J are completely different from FF1US. As for the price thing, I’ll change it in v1.00.

I expected there’d be typos in the current version (v0.99), hence it being v0.99 and not v1.00 lol. Thank you all for playing, and please continue to give feedback even if it seems like I disagree sometimes! I read all of it and give thought to all of it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 23, 2019, 03:52:27 am
NulShock - BarThndr (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)

The "Ba" series of spells I'm fairly sure are a reference to Wizardry, which used the "Ba" prefix to mean "anti" (ie the life spell was called "Di", so the death spell was called "Badi" because death is anti-life). I've seen the "It's short for barrier" thing before, but I think it's actually just a guess.

(Multiple other errors in there too. The Japanese name of Cure isn't "Care", for instance, it's ケアル, which is the English word "care" (ケア) with an extra ル added to the end to make it more than just the English word. A lot of the Japanese spell names work like this, it just sort of got lost in translation)

This is something I may consider for future updates, but also I believe that some names are localized for good reason. Sure that logic might conflict with making the Chaos Edition patch in the first place, but I think stuff like this is something that needs to be considered on an individual basis.

The monsters using D&D spellings I understand, but I’m not a fan of changing the spell names to the point where stuff that was consistent in the Japanese FF trilogy is no longer consistent in the English translations. That, and just because a term in the Japanese version was based off of an English word doesn’t exactly mean the word itself would work in English. But again, stuff like this is something I’ll consider carefully on a case-by-case basis for the next update.

As I said earlier, there IS something inherently silly about retranslating a game to give people a closer approximation of what the original Japanese game was like, but also making a point of keeping various random stuff from old English translations.

(Also, I don't think the Final Fantasy series is really the best place to make the "names were localized for a reason" argument considering how inconsistent its translations have been)

Also 海賊 means pirate, sure if you break up the kanji you get “sea bandit” but by all means it refers to the same thing that the English word pirate refers to. Of course, I’m aware that Buccaneer being called パイレーツ in the original doesn’t help the situation of how to differentiate them in English.

I'd say "Buccaneer" is actually the best way to handle this. Consider the way actual Japanese players at the time would've reacted to these names. They'd reach the boss battle against the 9 かいぞく, and they'd see that word the exact same way an English-speaker would've seen the word "pirate". Then they'd get the ship and run into a random battle on the sea against a group of パイレーツ, which they'd have seen as "a word that means the same as かいぞく, but isn't actually that word". And what word would English-speakers have had the same "a word that means the same as pirate, but isn't actually that word" reaction to seeing? Well, if you look up the word pirate in a thesaurus there's a couple potential options here, but I think "buccaneer" is probably the one closest associated with actual literal piracy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 23, 2019, 08:31:45 am
I would also like to see some changed spell names in the Chaos Edition so that they are more faithful to the Famicom version:

Focus - Shape
Sleep - Sleepel
Temper - Strike
Focura - Shara
Scourge - Clouda/Cloudkill (Clouda is a literal translation of the spell name, while Cloudkill is the name of the D&D spell it was based on)
Firaga - Figa
Teleport - Telepo
Thundaga - Thunga (Name only used in the Famicom version)
Warp - Dezone
Cure - Care
NulShock - BarThndr (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
NulBlaze - BarFire
Cura - Carera
Diara - Adia
NulFrost - BarCold
Vox - Vocal
Curaga - Careda
Healara - Healra
Diaga -  Dadia
Exit - Datelpo (Best it could fit without squishy tiles)
Invisra - Invira
NulDeath - BarMagic
Curaja - Carega
Healaga - Raheala
Diaja - Gadia
NulAll - BarAll
Mythril - Mithril (as in the Lord of the Rings metal)
Crosier - Khakhara (A Budist ringed staff used in prayer, original Japanese name was Shakujo, which was Khakkhara's Japanese pronounciation)
Vorpal - Sharp
Jolt Tonic - Awakening
Pirate - SeaBandit
Buccaneer - Pirate
Sahagin - Sahuagin (Named after the D&D monster)
WhiteCroc - Whitedile
Ochu - Otyugh (Named after the D&D monster)
Remorazz - Remorhaz (Named after the D&D monster)
BlackFlan - B.Pudding
Rhyos - Gorgimera

For the love of God, please do not incorporate these proposed changes!  It's one thing to re-translate the script to increase its fidelity to the original Japanese, but renaming the long-standing English conventions for commands/spells/etc. sacrifices far too much in terms of usability to be justifiable.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 23, 2019, 09:18:24 am
Quote
As I said earlier, there IS something inherently silly about retranslating a game to give people a closer approximation of what the original Japanese game was like, but also making a point of keeping various random stuff from old English translations.
That’s true, but also does not apply to what we are talking about here. We’re not talking about “Four Fiends” or meme-Garland here, we’re talking about monster and spell names which are almost completely different between NES FF1 and GBA/PSP/iOS FF1, so this isn’t a case of “keeping various random stuff from old English translations”.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Bregalad on July 23, 2019, 09:28:35 am
Well it’s not “upcoming” anymore, it was released yesterday.

To answer your question, Square didn’t implement scrolling text boxes until FF2. I’m sure with some work it could be backported to FF1, but also it would kinda make the way Garland’s/Chaos’s dialogue is setup even weirder than it already is, not to mention I’m not a magical NES hacker that can implement anything. Not saying I’m against seeing FF2-style text boxes implemented though, I just feel like that’s something that would break the boundary between translation and hack, especially with how NPC’s like endgame Garland is setup with his “movement” being designed with FF1’s single text box system in mind.
This is something I may consider for future updates, but also I believe that some names are localized for good reason. Sure that logic might conflict with making the Chaos Edition patch in the first place, but I think stuff like this is something that needs to be considered on an individual basis.
Well congratulations on releasing the retranslation (wow, that was sure a quick project) !
And I understand that FF2-style scrolling text is out of the scrope of FF1 and not in the spirit of "play the game as the original was" (especially with the dialogue with Garland at the end, which would make no sense if scrolling was possible). But the font in the original was also spaced with 2 lines (instead just one) and had only 4 lines of text. Well, it's an impossible choice...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 23, 2019, 09:34:33 am
Quote
But the font in the original was also spaced with 2 lines (instead just one) and had only 4 lines of text. Well, it's an impossible choice...
Yup, I’m aware of that - to be clear, the new translation isn’t inserted into US FF1, I’m directly modifying Japan FF1, as such I modified the text display routine for the NPC text boxes to display single-spaced lines like US FF1. However, for shops, menus, etc., I left the Japanese version’s two-line breaks because I felt the text space was sufficient enough in those and I couldn’t figure out how lol, even implementing DTE was a nightmare

As for how I was able to do it relatively quickly, I was on vacation until last week. I’m not on vacation anymore and am working full-time, so don’t expect me to pump out projects that fast anymore lol. Will still continue to work on improving these, of course.

I do want to port and adjust the new script to the WSC version, and that’ll hopefully not be as restrictive with text presentation and space. So maybe some people should wait for that version :laugh:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 23, 2019, 12:08:58 pm
That’s true, but also does not apply to what we are talking about here. We’re not talking about “Four Fiends” or meme-Garland here, we’re talking about monster and spell names which are almost completely different between NES FF1 and GBA/PSP/iOS FF1, so this isn’t a case of “keeping various random stuff from old English translations”.

I'm just talking in general, I don't even know which particular names you're using for various things. It just seems weird to do an "accurate retranslation" and then specifically look to what earlier official translations decided to randomly rename various things. Especially when we're talking about a franchise that has never had a very consistent English localization.

Get what I mean?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 23, 2019, 03:08:23 pm
Found a glitch - When all characters are positioned and I go to cure the poison (either with magic or an item), the “poison” text gets all wonky. The “Po” of the last character shows up on the right side, but the “ison” shows up on the left side of the screen. Both overlap with the window.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 24, 2019, 12:41:41 am
I'm just talking in general, I don't even know which particular names you're using for various things. It just seems weird to do an "accurate retranslation" and then specifically look to what earlier official translations decided to randomly rename various things. Especially when we're talking about a franchise that has never had a very consistent English localization.

Get what I mean?

As mentioned before, the aim of this isn’t to be all “here is my ultimate super-accurate FF1 translation that’s totally better than SE’s official translations”, this is more like “here is what a translation from a half-Japanese dude who lived in Japan for a little bit and then grew up in the US who likes ROM hacking, programming, and translating as a hobby would be” and also these are meant to “be to the English remakes of FF1-3 as the original Famicom trilogy is to their own Japanese remake counterparts”. I’m not trying to be all “I think this is the true meaning, so I will rename all of the items my way because SE is completely wrong!!” and break continuity with the rest of the games in the franchise.

SE has kept their FF1 localization pretty consistent in the last three releases (GBA, PSP, iOS), and I’m confident that whatever they port it next to will retain the terminology used in the aforementioned three versions. And, having played FF1 in both English and Japanese, I think SE’s choices makes sense. The only choices I disagree with is the few lingering things from the originals NES localization - particularly “Four Fiends” and “Oxyale”, but that’s a different topic. FF1 isn’t exactly an advanced piece of literature - it’s a simple story, the Japanese in it isn’t that complicated, and the script doesn’t even take itself seriously at times. So many people looking into “the true meaning of the original Japanese” when really it’s not that deep, and the original NES localization wasn’t exactly a mess either.

“Chaos Edition” isn’t meant to change things to the point where continuity is broken (i.e. items/monsters that reappear in FF2 and FF3 no longer being consistent). It’s pretty much just to maintain the name connection between the final boss and the four monster things, as there was a name connection in the original game.

Sorry if I’m jumping around from point to point with little connection, but also the reason why in Chaos Edition I called the Oxyale “Aquair” instead of the 100% super literal and accurate “Air’s Water” is for the same reason why I said sometimes localization needs to happen for a reason (also “Oxyale” doesn’t seem to reference anything about water at all hence why I wanted to rename it). If you translate everything word-for-word using the exact dictionary definitions of everything, then you end up with really awkward and unnatural phrases. If you go this route, at what point does it stop being a translation and become the Japanese game in romaji? I’m not trying to go that route here, even with “Chaos Edition”. I’m sure someone that has studied Japanese extensively might look at something and go “this is wrong!”, and while I’m not one to tell someone who is right or wrong, I just hope people can respect where I’m coming from and why I think localization happens for a reason.

I think in English. English is my “main” language. However, I talk to my mom in Japanese. When I talk to my mom, I don’t “translate” to English, instead I convey the same information to my mom using cultural equivalent phrases. If I directly translated from English intentionally, then what I say is very awkward. Likewise when conveying the same information to my English-speaking dad, I say what is a natural and appropriate way to convey that information in English. Now, not to play devil’s advocate, but due to my life situation my Japanese probably sounds like English-to-Japanese Google Translate, and I use English loan-words to fill in my vocabulary gaps, while on the other hand my English grammar isn’t 100% perfect, but the point I’m trying to make here is that this is the exact reason why I believe localization happens for a reason: so you can get the same reaction out of two different audiences.

And one last thing I want to say is, I started these projects with FF2 and then onto FF3 because hacks like Grond’s FF and FFRestored already existed, and to my knowledge those hacks brushed up the NES script by comparing with the GBA version. The result is somewhat different from my new translation, but those hacks are still perfectly functional - and great - versions of FF1. After finishing FF2 and FF3, I decided to do FF1 just because of a “might as well completely the trilogy” thing, NOT because “All previous translations are completely wrong, here is my ultimate ultra-accurate translation!!!”. Yes I retranslated all of the NPC dialogue from scratch (as opposed to FF2 and FF3 where I edited the GBA/DS scripts to reflect the content of the original Famicom scripts), and I used the monster and item names from the GBA/PSP/iOS versions because that’s exactly what I did with FF2 and FF3, so likewise I should do it like that for FF1 as well.

v1.00 of Chaos Edition might change some more names, but it’s something I will look at on an individual basis and will use my own judgement. I am prioritizing maintaining continuity throughout the entire trilogy.

With all that said, I’ll eventually release my new text editor when it’s ready (it’ll be compatible with the whole trilogy). People can make all the addendums they want if they disagree with a choice of mine.

Disclaimer: what I said was not directed solely at the person I replied to, but rather just my various thoughts on the “literal vs natural” debate that comes up in translation-related topics. I really don’t want to discuss this topic anymore. These projects, for the most part, are done lol.

I’m sorry for this long post, this ended up way longer than I wanted it to be, and the disjointed-ness of it is due to me adding paragraphs in-between.

Found a glitch - When all characters are positioned and I go to cure the poison (either with magic or an item), the “poison” text gets all wonky. The “Po” of the last character shows up on the right side, but the “ison” shows up on the left side of the screen. Both overlap with the window.
Can you post a screenshot? Wondering if it’s in-battle or in the overworld.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 24, 2019, 12:47:41 am
As mentioned before, the aim of this isn’t to be all “here is my ultimate super-accurate FF1 translation that’s totally better than SE’s official translations”, this is more like “here is what a translation from a half-Japanese dude who grew up in the US who likes ROM hacking, programming, and translating as a hobby would be” and also these are meant to “be to the English remakes of FF1-3 as the original Famicom trilogy is to their own Japanese remake counterparts”. I’m not trying to be all “I think this is the true meaning, so I will rename all of the items my way because SE is completely wrong!!” and break continuity with the rest of the games in the franchise.

SE has kept their FF1 localization pretty consistent in the last three releases (GBA, PSP, iOS), and I’m confident that whatever they port it next to will retain the terminology used in the aforementioned three versions. And, having played FF1 in both English and Japanese, I think SE’s choices makes sense. The only choices I disagree with is the few lingering things from the originals NES localization - particularly “Four Fiends” and “Oxyale”, but that’s a different topic. FF1 isn’t exactly an advanced piece of literature - it’s a simple story, the Japanese in it isn’t that complicated, and the script doesn’t even take itself seriously at times. So many people looking into “the true meaning of the original Japanese” when really it’s not that deep, and the original NES localization wasn’t exactly a mess either.

“Chaos Edition” isn’t meant to change things to the point where continuity is broken (i.e. items/monsters that reappear in FF2 and FF3 no longer being consistent). It’s pretty much just to maintain the name connection between the final boss and the four monster things, as there was a name connection in the original game.

Sorry if I’m jumping around from point to point with little connection, but also the reason why in Chaos Edition I called the Oxyale “Aquair” instead of the 100% super literal and accurate “Air’s Water” is for the same reason why I said sometimes localization needs to happen for a reason (also “Oxyale” doesn’t seem to reference anything about water at all hence why I wanted to rename it). If you translate everything word-for-word using the exact dictionary definitions of everything, then you end up with really awkward and unnatural phrases. If you go this route, at what point does it stop being a translation and become the Japanese game in romaji? I’m not trying to go that route here, even with “Chaos Edition”. I’m sure someone that has studied Japanese extensively might look at something and go “this is wrong!”, and while I’m not one to tell someone who is right or wrong, I just hope people can respect where I’m coming from and why I think localization happens for a reason.

I think in English. English is my “main” language. However, I talk to my mom in Japanese. When I talk to my mom, I don’t “translate” to English, instead I convey the same information to my mom using cultural equivalent phrases. If I directly translated from English intentionally, then what I say is very awkward. Now, not to play devil’s advocate, but due to my life situation my Japanese probably sounds like English-to-Japanese Google Translate, and I use English loan-words to fill in my vocabulary gaps, while on the other hand my English grammar isn’t 100% perfect, but the point I’m trying to make here is that this is the exact reason why I believe localization happens for a reason: so you can get the same reaction out of two different audiences.

And one last thing I want to say is, I started these projects with FF2 and then onto FF3 because hacks like Grond’s FF and FFRestored already existed, and to my knowledge those hacks brushed up the NES script by comparing with the GBA version. The result is somewhat different from my new translation, but those hacks are still perfectly functional - and great - versions of FF1. After finishing FF2 and FF3, I decided to do FF1 just because of a “might as well completely the trilogy” thing, NOT because “All previous translations are completely wrong, here is my ultimate ultra-accurate translation!!!”. Yes I retranslated all of the NPC dialogue from scratch (as opposed to FF2 and FF3 where I edited the GBA/DS scripts to reflect the content of the original Famicom scripts), and I used the monster and item names from the GBA/PSP/iOS versions because that’s exactly what I did with FF2 and FF3, so likewise I should do it like that for FF1 as well.

v1.00 of Chaos Edition might change some more names, but it’s something I will look at on an individual basis and will use my own judgement. I am prioritizing maintaining continuity throughout the entire trilogy.

With all that said, I’ll eventually release my new text editor when it’s ready (it’ll be compatible with the whole trilogy). People can make all the addendums they want if they disagree with a choice of mine.

Disclaimer: what I said was not directed solely at the person I replied to, but rather just my various thoughts on the “literal vs natural” debate that comes up in translation-related topics. I really don’t want to discuss this topic anymore. These projects, for the most part, are done lol.

I’m sorry for this long post, this ended up way longer than I wanted it to be, and the disjointed-ness of it is due to me adding paragraphs in-between.
Can you post a screenshot? Wondering if it’s in-battle or in the overworld.

For some reason, I’m having trouble figuring out how to post a screenshot here. Being a total spaz! It is in the overworld though. Looks like the text is wrapping because it’s too long a word or something.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 24, 2019, 12:57:03 am
For some reason, I’m having trouble figuring out how to post a screenshot here. Being a total spaz! It is in the overworld though. Looks like the text is wrapping because it’s too long a word or something.
Ok! I’ll look into it this weekend. Please continue to post anything else you find, I appreciate you taking the time to play this.

Felt like I said too much in my previous post... I guess I just don’t want to go into this debate territory that I see with discussions on FF4 and FF6. I guess that’s what happens when the game did have a localization during its original time, unlike FF2 and FF3.  No wonder why people never argue about FF2, FF3, and FF5 lol.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Ramdemann on July 24, 2019, 01:47:37 am
I have an unusual problem with Final Fantasy III, When I try to start the game after taking a break it changes the Header ID I think it's called?

For instance, The first time I play it I get this - C74ED9C6-00000000

Then when I come back another day I get this - C74E96C6-00000000

The D9 becomes 96.

This prevents me from saving because the emulator thinks the game is different from the save file and it keeps switching back and forth every time I boot up.

What would cause this?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 24, 2019, 05:47:40 am
Disclaimer: what I said was not directed solely at the person I replied to, but rather just my various thoughts on the “literal vs natural” debate that comes up in translation-related topics. I really don’t want to discuss this topic anymore. These projects, for the most part, are done lol.

If I was annoying you, I apologize for that. My intent was just to add my own two cent to the already-ongoing discussion about translation philosophy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 24, 2019, 10:01:02 am
Sorry if I’m jumping around from point to point with little connection, but also the reason why in Chaos Edition I called the Oxyale “Aquair” instead of the 100% super literal and accurate “Air’s Water” is for the same reason why I said sometimes localization needs to happen for a reason (also “Oxyale” doesn’t seem to reference anything about water at all hence why I wanted to rename it). If you translate everything word-for-word using the exact dictionary definitions of everything, then you end up with really awkward and unnatural phrases. If you go this route, at what point does it stop being a translation and become the Japanese game in romaji? I’m not trying to go that route here, even with “Chaos Edition”. I’m sure someone that has studied Japanese extensively might look at something and go “this is wrong!”, and while I’m not one to tell someone who is right or wrong, I just hope people can respect where I’m coming from and why I think localization happens for a reason.
Does it necessarily need to reference water? (I don't recall the details of the quest involving it.) The less specific "liquid" may be a better alternative here. I'm not suggesting that you should rename it Liquid Air though, but forms of "liquid breathing" appear in many fantasy and science fiction novels and films etc. Maybe you can get inspiration from there to come up with a good sounding English term for the item if you're not happy with Oxyale or Aquair.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: AdamDravian on July 24, 2019, 11:18:16 am
Does it necessarily need to reference water? (I don't recall the details of the quest involving it.) The less specific "liquid" may be a better alternative here. I'm not suggesting that you should rename it Liquid Air though, but forms of "liquid breathing" appear in many fantasy and science fiction novels and films etc. Maybe you can get inspiration from there to come up with a good sounding English term for the item if you're not happy with Oxyale or Aquair.

It's well known that FF1 was heavily inspired by Dungeons & Dragons, so I would bet that the "item" in question was inspired by the D&D spell Airy Water, which basically creates an area around the caster which allows the caster and those close to him  to breathe and move freely through water, as if they were on land.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 24, 2019, 11:46:23 am
It's well known that FF1 was heavily inspired by Dungeons & Dragons, so I would bet that the "item" in question was inspired by the D&D spell Airy Water, which basically creates an area around the caster which allows the caster and those close to him  to breathe and move freely through water, as if they were on land.

It's くうきのみず in Japanese, which is the logical way to translate "Airy Water" into Japanese, so yeah. Direct reference Straight borrowed term.

I know it's kinda dickish, but I can't help but chuckle at how the above "localization needs to happen for a reason" thing turned out to be arguing that an English term that was translated directly into Japanese shouldn't be directly translated into English. Reminds me of that one SNES Wizardry translation patch that renamed all the spells because "the original names are just meaningless syllables that wouldn't mean anything to English speakers".
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 24, 2019, 11:59:00 am
It's くうきのみず in Japanese, which is the logical way to translate "Airy Water" into Japanese, so yeah. Direct reference Straight borrowed term.

I know it's kinda dickish, but I can't help but chuckle at how the above "localization needs to happen for a reason" thing turned out to be arguing that an English term that was translated directly into Japanese shouldn't be directly translated into English. Reminds me of that one SNES Wizardry translation patch that renamed all the spells because "the original names are just meaningless syllables that wouldn't mean anything to English speakers".
To be fair I was using Oxyale as an example, and wasn’t what my whole localization happens for a reason point was about - I was talking about items, spells, and monsters as a whole. The context in-game is that Oxyale is a thing naturally produced in Gaia town’s spring, and only the town faerie can extract it. It’s an item and not a spell, so it may or may not be based on the spell. I haven’t been dickish at all and have been explaining my logic, situation, and thought process, so I would appreciate it if we could continue this discussion in a respectful manner.

With that said, on the topic of names based from D&D, I hardly know anything about it so forgive me on that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using the SE spellings in the default patch, but would you guys be okay with using the D&D spellings in the Chaos Edition patch? Because it’s not much different from later localizations of FFIV renaming monsters to be spelled correctly based on how they’re spelled in the mythologies that they’re based from.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 24, 2019, 12:05:50 pm
It's well known that FF1 was heavily inspired by Dungeons & Dragons, so I would bet that the "item" in question was inspired by the D&D spell Airy Water, which basically creates an area around the caster which allows the caster and those close to him  to breathe and move freely through water, as if they were on land.
Interesting, I'm aware of its huge influence on FF, 99% of the bestiary was ripped straight from D&D for example, but didn't know about that Airy Water spell. Neat.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chicken Knife on July 24, 2019, 12:06:44 pm
I know it's kinda dickish, but I can't help but chuckle at how the above "localization needs to happen for a reason" thing turned out to be arguing that an English term that was translated directly into Japanese shouldn't be directly translated into English. Reminds me of that one SNES Wizardry translation patch that renamed all the spells because "the original names are just meaningless syllables that wouldn't mean anything to English speakers".
This point piqued my interest enough to respond. I think there actually are times where an English word used in kana shouldn't necessarily be reproduced as the same English word in a translation. Case in point, the 2 mummy enemies in Dragon Quest 2 use the standard Japanese word for mummy "Mirra" for the weaker and the English word "Mummy" (it's kana equivalent) for the stronger one. This creates a translation problem because you naturally want to use Mummy for the stronger but then what do you do with the weaker? They made the silly choice of Mummy Man in the original loc. But my philosophy is about keeping in mind that Mirra was the common word to the Japanese audience and Mummy was the exotic one. Therefore we translated Mirra as Mummy and chose a more exotic name "Embalmed" for Mummy. I hope that illustrates my point that a translator should understand that English words in Japanese are usually designed to sound exotic and straight translations fail to reproduce that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 24, 2019, 12:11:29 pm
To be fair I was using Oxyale as an example, and wasn’t what my whole localization happens for a reason point was about - I was talking about items, spells, and monsters as a whole. The context in-game is that Oxyale is a thing naturally produced in Gaia town’s spring, and only the town faerie can extract it. It’s an item and not a spell, so it may or may not be based on the spell. I haven’t been dickish at all and have been explaining my logic, situation, and thought process, so I would appreciate it if we could continue this discussion in a respectful manner.

I know, I know. I'm sorry, I just found it a bit amusing. No hard feelings, I hope.

But yes, if it's called くうきのみず ("Airy Water") in the original, and is an item that lets you breathe under water, then it's definitely a term nabbed straight from D&D just like 80% of the other terms in the game. That kind of coincidences don't happen.


On the topic of D&D names, one name I don't think any official translation ever got right is the enemy バレッテ, which was called "Ankylo" in the original NES translation and "Baretta" in most (all?) later English FF games. I'm not sure where they got any of those spellings from, but the correct one is supposed to be "Bulette".

This point piqued my interest enough to respond. I think there actually are times where an English word used in kana shouldn't necessarily be reproduced as the same English word in a translation. Case in point, the 2 mummy enemies in Dragon Quest 2 use the standard Japanese word for mummy "Mirra" for the weaker and the English word "Mummy" (it's kana equivalent) for the stronger one. This creates a translation problem because you naturally want to use Mummy for the stronger but then what do you do with the weaker? They made the silly choice of Mummy Man in the original loc. But my philosophy is about keeping in mind that Mirra was the common word to the Japanese audience and Mummy was the exotic one. Therefore we translated Mirra as Mummy and chose a more exotic name "Embalmed" for Mummy. I hope that illustrates my point that a translator should understand that English words in Japanese are usually designed to sound exotic and straight translations fail to reproduce that.

Agreed. If you scroll up a bit, you'll see I made that exact same point for the enemies かいぞく and パイレーツ, agreeing with the choice to translate かいぞく as "Pirate" and パイレーツ as "Buccaneer":

Consider the way actual Japanese players at the time would've reacted to these names. They'd reach the boss battle against the 9 かいぞく, and they'd see that word the exact same way an English-speaker would've seen the word "pirate". Then they'd get the ship and run into a random battle on the sea against a group of パイレーツ, which they'd have seen as "a word that means the same as かいぞく, but isn't actually that word". And what word would English-speakers have had the same "a word that means the same as pirate, but isn't actually that word" reaction to seeing? Well, if you look up the word pirate in a thesaurus there's a couple potential options here, but I think "buccaneer" is probably the one closest associated with actual literal piracy.

(I think the two of us are pretty much on the same page as far as translation philosophy and attitude is concerned, and I quite like what you're doing with your Dragon Quest retranslations)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 24, 2019, 12:53:54 pm
On the topic of D&D names, one name I don't think any official translation ever got right is the enemy バレッテ, which was called "Ankylo" in the original NES translation and "Baretta" in most (all?) later English FF games. I'm not sure where they got any of those spellings from, but the correct one is supposed to be "Bulette".
My guess is that Square Enix USA purposely avoid going with the original D&D names when they can for various reasons, just like they avoid using the term "Mithril". The prominent D&D influence was successively being phased out until it basically became its own thing in later titles but many names were of course still there for the SFC trilogy at least. If I recall correctly, the Mist Dragon in FFIV is also a D&D monster.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 24, 2019, 01:08:38 pm
I will admit that since I don’t know jack shit about D&D, which has a huge influence on FF1, I’m probably not the best person for choosing new names for these items.

In the “Default Edition”, I am keeping the SE spellings, that’s a given, and I used them as they were listed on the FF wiki for the terms as they’re spelled in the PSP version.

However, in “Chaos Edition” I am open to using the D&D spellings for anything that originated from it, since in this case the source material was in English to begin with.

Would it be possible for someone to provide a list of what came from D&D and how to spell it? I can even provide a list of the Japanese item & monster names later today if it helps.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Burger on July 24, 2019, 01:09:45 pm
My guess is that Square Enix USA purposely avoid going with the original D&D names when they can for various reasons, just like they avoid using the term "Mithril". The prominent D&D influence was successively being phased out until it basically became its own thing in later titles but many names were of course still there for the SFC trilogy at least. If I recall correctly, the Mist Dragon in FFIV is also a D&D monster.

I'm fairly certain that back when the original NES translation was done, some American guy took a look at the monster names, went "crap, these names are all stolen from D&D, they might sue", deleted them all, then had someone else come up with all-new names based purely on what the monster looked like, with zero knowledge of what the Japanese name had been. It's really the only way we could've ended up with the Cobra being renamed "Asp" and then the later (non-poisonous) Anaconda enemy being renamed "Cobra".

But the later official translations restored so many D&D terms and names I'm pretty sure the only reason we ended up with stuff like the Bulette being renamed Baretta was that the translator just didn't realize where the name was taken from and what the spelling was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KillerBob on July 24, 2019, 01:31:37 pm
I will admit that since I don’t know jack shit about D&D, which has a huge influence on FF1, I’m probably not the best person for choosing new names for these items.

In the “Default Edition”, I am keeping the SE spellings, that’s a given, and I used them as they were listed on the FF wiki for the terms as they’re spelled in the PSP version.

However, in “Chaos Edition” I am open to using the D&D spellings for anything that originated from it, since in this case the source material was in English to begin with.

Would it be possible for someone to provide a list of what came from D&D and how to spell it? I can even provide a list of the Japanese item & monster names later today if it helps.
Looks like someone has already done the job for you, found this great spreadsheet after some searching around: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At-tjvq02iYddERoeUNtejJ3NWxlamxTX0J4SGxteWc :thumbsup:
Don't know if it's complete, but it sure looks like it.

I'm fairly certain that back when the original NES translation was done, some American guy took a look at the monster names, went "crap, these names are all stolen from D&D, they might sue", deleted them all, then had someone else come up with all-new names based purely on what the monster looked like, with zero knowledge of what the Japanese name had been. It's really the only way we could've ended up with the Cobra being renamed "Asp" and then the later (non-poisonous) Anaconda enemy being renamed "Cobra".

But the later official translations restored so many D&D terms and names I'm pretty sure the only reason we ended up with stuff like the Bulette being renamed Baretta was that the translator just didn't realize where the name was taken from and what the spelling was supposed to be.
Yeah, I agree. :laugh: Didn't know that they restored the D&D terms in later releases. I guess I was wrong then.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on July 25, 2019, 09:43:30 pm
FF1 had a very D&D feel to its story and setting. Re-releases gave the text a more traditional high fantasy FF feel. I hope this one has a bit of tongue-in-cheekyness to its script.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: John Enigma on July 26, 2019, 10:45:33 pm
I am aware that people would like to see this script ported to the Final Fantasy Restored and Grond's Final Fantasy hacks, and I will be working on porting it soon (shouldn't take very long).
My question is how will you be doing this?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 26, 2019, 10:57:03 pm
My question is how will you be doing this?
I make my own tools, and my tool already supports any version of FF1 as long as I have a table file for it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: John Enigma on July 26, 2019, 11:00:04 pm
I make my own tools, and my tool already supports any version of FF1 as long as I have a table file for it.
Right. I forgot.

Does your tool also support FF II (NES), and FF III (NES), or do you have tools for these specific entries?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 26, 2019, 11:08:41 pm
Right. I forgot.

Does your tool also support FF II (NES), and FF III (NES), or do you have tools for these specific entries?
I haven’t added support for FF2 and FF3 yet (hence why the tool hasn’t been released) but I’m planning on doing it so I don’t have to maintain three text editors. I’ll get to it when I have time to update the FF2 and FF3 translations. I do have older tools for FF2 and FF3 but I don’t recommend using the FF2 one.

July 27, 2019, 07:41:12 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
The upcoming v1.00 will have these changes reflected in "Chaos Edition":

Four Fiends   --> Chaos Four
Fiend Orb   --> Chaos Orb
Power of Earth   --> Earthforce
Power of Fire   --> Fireforce
Power of Water   --> Waterforce
Power of Wind   --> Windforce
Warmech      --> Deathmech

D&D-BASED TERM CHANGES:
SQUAREENIX(abv.):   D&D:
Oxyale      --> AiryWater
WargWolf   --> WorgWolf
HillGigas   --> HillGiant
IceGigas   --> FrostGiant
FireGigas   --> FireGiant
Sahagin      --> Sahuagin
SahaChief   --> SahuaChief
SahaPrince   --> SahuaPrnce
Bigeyes      --> Flo[ti]ngEyes
Bloodbones   --> BloodyBone
GigasWorm   --> GiantWorm
Hellhound   --> HellHound
Ankheg      --> Anhkheg
Remorazz   --> Remorhaz
KittyTiger   --> Tiger
B[la][ac]kFlan   --> B[la][ac]kPuding
Baretta      --> Bulette
DsrtBaretta   --> DsrtBulette
Tyranosaur   --> T-Rex
Ochu      --> Otyugh
Neochu      --> Neo-Otyugh
FireHydra   --> Pyrohydra
Rhyos      --> Gorgimera
Mindflayer   --> MindFlayer

In order to maintain continuity with the FF2 and FF3 translations, I am choosing not to rename "Mythril" to "Mithril". I'm also not going to rename any of the spells for the same reasons. If there are any more D&D references, then I am willing to rename them for "Chaos Edition" as long as they don't conflict too heavily with later FF's. At this point, if anyone has any issues with the terminology in either patches, then I recommend making your own addendum patch once I release my text editor. My goals are to preserve the continuity present in the Japanese Famicom trilogy in these English translations, hope you guys understand.

I may or may not release v1.00 this weekend but I'm not sure yet.

EDIT: Also, huge shoutout to NeonStreetlight for reading over the script and making small changes to fix typos make things flow more naturally, and these changes will be in v1.00 for both editions. They will be added to the credits.

EDIT: v1.00 has been submitted in RHDN's queue. Let's hope it goes through without any issues.

July 28, 2019, 04:45:26 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Looks like FF1 was approved to the database and the page is up now: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/4868/
I've also submitted v1.01 to fix a small typo in the Chaos Edition patch.

In addition to that, I've ported the translation to Final Fantasy Restored, and have submitted it to RHDN as an addendum to Final Fantasy Restored. Here are some screenshots:
(https://i.imgur.com/ydHpiDs.png) (https://i.imgur.com/nVv0oWE.png)
Since FFR has an expanded DTE table, I had a little extra room in the text space, so I was able to expand some of the text for clarity (but not that much), therefore the script port is not 100% identical. None of the item or monster names have been changed since they were near-identical anyways. The shop text and story text was mostly unchanged, because FFR's text area was repointed all over the place so my text editor wasn't fully compatible with it (mine is designed to pack everything exactly where the original text area is for each bank), and any small changes in those areas were done for consistency and was done via hex editor.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on July 29, 2019, 01:53:28 am
I noticed a strange typo in the "Default Edition" of 1.0 in which the Leather armor is spelled "LePther" in the shop, but is spelled properly in the armor equipment menu.

(https://i.imgur.com/pOtCcYL.png)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 29, 2019, 01:59:06 am
I noticed a strange typo in the "Default Edition" of 1.0 in which the Leather armor is spelled "LePther" in the shop, but is spelled properly in the armor equipment menu.

(https://i.imgur.com/pOtCcYL.png)

Actually, I believe “LePther” is canon.

Lol nice catch!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 29, 2019, 02:04:33 am
I noticed a strange typo in the "Default Edition" of 1.0 in which the Leather armor is spelled "LePther" in the shop, but is spelled properly in the armor equipment menu.

(https://i.imgur.com/pOtCcYL.png)
I think it’s because the way DTE is implemented in menus isn’t 100% perfect (works fine in the overworld dialogues though)... for some reason it occasionally displays the wrong tile. I’m not on my PC right now so I can’t post my ASM notes, but it’s something I want to fix for a future update. Right now a temporary “fix” is to just compile the string with no DTE compression. I’m sorry about this!

On a different note, I’m afraid this script can’t be ported to Grond’s Final Fantasy, as it turns out that hack shifted around a lot of the text and the new translation won’t fit in the smaller space for NPC text that GFF uses.

As for Final Fantasy Restored, I’ve managed to port over the new translation to it and have already submitted it to RHDN and it is waiting approval.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on July 29, 2019, 11:24:59 am
i found a bug where the stats menu are bad positioned in the chaos version, i don't know if it's because of the font patch or if there it's another thing
https://imgur.com/TxncsOK
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: John Enigma on July 29, 2019, 01:15:19 pm
On a different note, I’m afraid this script can’t be ported to Grond’s Final Fantasy, as it turns out that hack shifted around a lot of the text and the new translation won’t fit in the smaller space for NPC text that GFF uses.
The only solution would be to message @Grond to see if he can try implementing your script to his hack, but I highly doubt he's currently here, considering the last time he interacted here was in 2015.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 29, 2019, 04:01:09 pm
i found a bug where the stats menu are bad positioned in the chaos version, i don't know if it's because of the font patch or if there it's another thing
https://imgur.com/TxncsOK
Thank you for reporting this, I will fix it for the next release!

@everyone I apologize for the glitches present in the initial release, I will prioritize fixing them for v1.1! In addition to that, I’ve been working with NeonStreetlight to polish up the script even further. Hopefully I can get the update out during this week, as well as providing an optional b-button dash patch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on July 29, 2019, 06:23:07 pm
Thank you for reporting this, I will fix it for the next release!

@everyone I apologize for the glitches present in the initial release, I will prioritize fixing them for v1.1! In addition to that, I’ve been working with NeonStreetlight to polish up the script even further. Hopefully I can get the update out during this week, as well as providing an optional b-button dash patch.

I’m excited about the next release. We’ve really managed to squeeze a lot out of the limited space to capture the meaning of the original game while keeping it sounding natural and consistent.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on July 30, 2019, 12:49:14 am
v1.11 has been submitted to the RHDN queue! All typos should be fixed by now, and any unnatural translated-ey English has been smoothed over thanks to the help of NeonStreetlight. Also, the DTE ASM routines have been perfected, so the glitch where sometimes the wrong letter shows up in the text has been fixed. And lastly, the error regarding the slightly misplaced "Agility" text in the stats screen has been fixed.

In addition to that, the Final Fantasy Restored script port v1.11 script has been submitted to the queue as well. This also updates the title screen very slightly:
(https://i.imgur.com/OieEWDs.png)
AE for AstralEsper, the author of FFR, and CR for Chaos Rush. I made this small change to help indicate much quicker if it was patched correctly.

I've also began work on expanding my unreleased text editor AirshipText to support FF2 as well (I want it to support the whole trilogy):
(https://i.imgur.com/BPDOM13.png)
I'm a lot better at coding now than I was in 2015, so this will be a lot more stable than CastleFynn. I think I might end up redoing the FF2 translation on a fresh Japanese ROM for the sake of cleaner data and also refining the script a little further. I want to update FF2 before porting both FF1 and FF2 to the multicart.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Special on July 30, 2019, 01:00:03 am
... Hopefully I can get the update out during this week...

Hours later, done. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 01, 2019, 11:25:52 pm
Just gave the plain translation a spin and it looks good so far. I tried adding other patches just to see if they worked (nibbles27's Decap font package has a B Button dash and expanded battle background patches), and unfortunately they do not. They are meant to work on US FFI so I figured as much. I would like to see that added as extras to this project, which I'm sure you were looking at doing.

I was wondering if you were going to update the battle screen to say Attack instead of fight, and Drink instead of Meds. I don't know why, but Meds makes me think of it in a negative context.



In the menu, I think that Stats should be Status if possible. Of course, if you still have room in the font. While gil might not be capitalized in gameplay, I think it should in the menu as it is in other releases. So if an NPC were to say "It's 30 gil a night." would be correct, but in the menu it looks confusing to me (probably because of the US font).

Also, in the character naming screen, I noticed that you added some extra dual letter tiles (like "ll") for names. However, there is a double li instead of an il. I'm using the US font so I don't know if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on August 02, 2019, 01:16:11 am
I was wondering if you were going to update the battle screen to say Attack instead of fight, and Drink instead of Meds. I don't know why, but Meds makes me think of it in a negative context.
It seems ironic once you think about it.

Then again, Drink also sounds like it's in a negative context.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Rodimus Primal on August 02, 2019, 01:28:15 am
  • Fight
  • Magic
  • Pills
  • Items
  • Run
It seems ironic once you think about it.

Then again, Drink also sounds like it's in a negative context.

Drink is a little different in context to the term Meds, or in your suggestion Pills. But it is the term that's used in official releases.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 02, 2019, 10:34:06 am
Just gave the plain translation a spin and it looks good so far. I tried adding other patches just to see if they worked (nibbles27's Decap font package has a B Button dash and expanded battle background patches), and unfortunately they do not. They are meant to work on US FFI so I figured as much. I would like to see that added as extras to this project, which I'm sure you were looking at doing.

I was wondering if you were going to update the battle screen to say Attack instead of fight, and Drink instead of Meds. I don't know why, but Meds makes me think of it in a negative context.



In the menu, I think that Stats should be Status if possible. Of course, if you still have room in the font. While gil might not be capitalized in gameplay, I think it should in the menu as it is in other releases. So if an NPC were to say "It's 30 gil a night." would be correct, but in the menu it looks confusing to me (probably because of the US font).

Also, in the character naming screen, I noticed that you added some extra dual letter tiles (like "ll") for names. However, there is a double li instead of an il. I'm using the US font so I don't know if that makes a difference.
As always, thank you for your suggestions, I’ll try and come out with an update this weekend. With those battle commands, those were the literal translations and for some reason I didn’t think to have it match the FF2 & FF3 translations and remakes lol, and I do agree that “Attack” and “Drink” makes more sense in this case.

For the b-button dash, I think I will try and do it as a stand-alone patch for the Japanese version of FF1 (but include it with the translation as well). A future update of FF2 will also have the B-Button dash as a separate patch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on August 05, 2019, 04:05:25 am
So, I recently played the PS1 version of FF1 for the first time. Currently I'm kinda in a playthrough of PS1 FF2. In the past I've played both the GBA and the PSP versions of both.

Is it worth playing the NES versions (with these translations of course)? In terms of stuff other than the translations themselves, are they a huge step back from the other versions (no need for all the repetitive bonus dungeons though) or is the translation alone worth playing this over the PS1 versions for?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: svenge on August 05, 2019, 07:30:59 am
Depends on your tolerance for very old-school gameplay mechanics such as the lack of auto-retargeting and MP pools subdivided by spell level instead of one big pool for all spells.  That, and only being able to save in Inns or on the overworld if you have a Tent/Cabin.

The former is the most jarring thing for the uninitiated, as you can't just mindlessly select "Attack" on the first enemy with all your fighters and expect the battle to wrap up quickly, as you'll end up with 2-3 characters per turn uselessly swinging their sword at an already-defeated mob because your first character already defeated it. 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Neon Streetlight on August 05, 2019, 08:07:53 am
So, I recently played the PS1 version of FF1 for the first time. Currently I'm kinda in a playthrough of PS1 FF2. In the past I've played both the GBA and the PSP versions of both.

Is it worth playing the NES versions (with these translations of course)? In terms of stuff other than the translations themselves, are they a huge step back from the other versions (no need for all the repetitive bonus dungeons though) or is the translation alone worth playing this over the PS1 versions for?

Depends on what you’re looking for. Are you trying to have a different experience and get a sense of what it was like to play the game when it was first released? If you’re looking for a historical tour of the past, a greater challenge, or you just love NES graphics/music, go for it.

If you’re looking for a fun game to casually play, you’ll probably end up frustrated. Especially having recently played modern versions of the same game that make it more accessible, familiar, and easy to play.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Masaru on August 07, 2019, 04:56:52 pm
So, I recently played the PS1 version of FF1 for the first time. Currently I'm kinda in a playthrough of PS1 FF2. In the past I've played both the GBA and the PSP versions of both.

Is it worth playing the NES versions (with these translations of course)? In terms of stuff other than the translations themselves, are they a huge step back from the other versions (no need for all the repetitive bonus dungeons though) or is the translation alone worth playing this over the PS1 versions for?
I don't have to say much because svenge already awnsered you, but for me, FF1 NES is only playable more for historic values than casual playing, that is because the battle system and story are really old for today standards and posterior games did the concept better
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: KingMike on August 07, 2019, 07:26:14 pm
PS1 "Normal" mode largely plays the same as the NES.
The most significant gameplay-affecting things (well, aside from bugs, not sure how those compare :P ) is that the PS1 version gives you an essentially infinite inventory whereas NES limited you to holding four weapon and four "armor" items per character (if you find seemingly garbage equipment in chests in the PS1 version, it is because the designers were exploiting a design limitation of the NES version to troll the player: if the inventory is full, it won't tell you what the item is unless you trash something).
The other change is that the NES version did not let you delete unwanted spells. Once you filled a character's three slots, that was it, no changing your mind on the fourth spell.

The other gameplay changes were made options on the PS1: running, being able to cure dead or petrified characters in battle, and redirecting attacks against dead targets (aka "Ineffective attacks." A lot of people like auto-targeting but some seeing playing under the threat of wasting turns as a challenge to play better.)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Thirteen 1355 on August 09, 2019, 03:52:11 am
Wow, loads of responses. I played the 'easy' mode on PS1 last time I played FF1. To be fair it felt even easier than the handheld versions (probably because the bosses' HP still is lower like in the older versions while some stuff has been made easier for you). Although I do think auto retargeting makes battles in and of themselves less interesting, I guess that after countless random encounters, I'll probably be sick of it. So yeah I'll stick to PS1 (prefer the more zoomed out camera and not being able to save anywhere, stuff the handheld versions introduced).

So thanks a bunch.

Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chaos Rush on August 10, 2019, 07:46:50 pm
v1.2 has been submitted in the queue. It alters a line within the shop text when buying/selling to read more naturally (thanks to Neon Streetlight for the line suggestion) and also updates the in-battle "Fight" and "Meds" commands to "Attack" and "Drink”, respectively, and also fixes a small error in the naming screen (thanks to Rodimus Primal for these suggestions and pointing out the naming screen error). The FFRestored patch will not be receiving an update to go with it because v1.2 only alters text that wasn't altered to begin with in FFRestored.

No b-button dash patch yet, sorry :( I just got myself a SNES Classic so I'm spending my limited free time playing it. I'll get around to it eventually.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: reyvgm on August 17, 2019, 11:52:03 pm
PRAISE DE SLUFFY!!!

\o/ \o/ \o/

Wait, what? Where's sluffy?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: 91-MPH on August 18, 2019, 03:01:42 am
Wait, what? Where's sluffy?

Nowhere. I was just expressing my happiness back then, for the canonical retranslation of FFI on the NES being green lit.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: darthvaderx on August 18, 2019, 02:21:44 pm
I know the idea is to keep the game's features as faithful as possible, but along with the b-button dash could make it compatible with that too?

(https://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/19/84/74/21/final_10.png)

I use this hacks combination to get the ultimate FF version (all are incompatible with its translation because it is based on the Japanese version):

1) Final Fantasy Decapitalization Font by nibbles27.

2) Final Fantasy Original (FF1 Retranslation/Restoration) v2.21 by The Collector.
(I had to edit some words like Gil and Drink later.)

3) Dynamic Action Selection patches:

Quote
1-Final Fantasy_Dynamic Action Selection Patch for Final Fantasy (U).ips
2-Final Fantasy_Dynamic Action Selection Battle Fix.ips
3-Final Fantasy_Dynamic Action Selection Unofficial Update.ips

4) FINAL FANTASY - DOUBLED v1.0 (20180211) Hack by Psyklax.

5) Final Fantasy - Kung Fu - Bug Fix - Version 0.8 (alpha) by Levi “Karatorian” Aho.

6) Extra's: (these are also compatable with any FF rom) from Final Fantasy Decapitalization Font hack:

Quote
faster-windows.ips 
- Make dialogue windows scroll faster instead of waiting a few seconds to scroll

full-battle-screen-no-border.ips 
- Remove the middle border in battles to show full screen battles like other FF's

medium-dash-B-enhancement.ips   
- Add's medium speed dash ability in town and on map with B button

respond-rate.ips             
- Changes title screen default respond rate to fastest - "8"

But if you introduce the B-button dash and the screen I showed you in your hack, I will definitely adopt it as the ultimate FF ever, finally congratulations and thank you so much for all your great work. :thumbsup: :beer:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy NES Trilogy Translations
Post by: Chrysologus on September 17, 2019, 10:56:56 pm
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I'm playing the FF II retranslation and found two errors. On the list of airship destinations for Cid it says "Semite" instead of "Semitt." Second, when you cast Protect, it says "Def.Up up!" Probably should say "Defense up". I hope that is helpful to point out! I really appreciate the new translation! :)