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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Timbo on December 01, 2018, 08:24:07 pm

Title: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 01, 2018, 08:24:07 pm
(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/titles/4324titlescreen.png)(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/4324screenshot1.png)(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/4324screenshot2.png)
Secret of Mana Relocalized has just been updated to v1.6!

v1.6 Changes
- Mixed case character naming now possible.
- Removed the last remaining reference to Popoi's gender in the script.
- Spell descriptions have been updated to allow for room for statistical data.
- Minor casing changes.
- Reverted back to old punctuated message system.
- Miniaturized was to long. It's system message was changed to "Shrank!"
- Miniaturized's status was changed to "Shrunk".
- Unconscious was too long. It's system message was changed to "Asleep!"
- Unconscious' status message was changed to "Asleep"
- Burning's system message was localized to "Ablaze!"
- Burning's status was localized to "Ablaze".
- Gigas whip was corrected to Gigas' Whip.
- Diamond Missile was localized to Diamond Shards.
- Freeze was localized to Ice Smash to match later entries in the series.
- Detect was localized to Analyze for comprehensiveness.
- Sleep was reverted back to Sleep Flower because the change was unnecessary.
- Dispel was reverted back to Dispel Magic because the change was unnecessary.


You can download it here:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/)

Note: v1.6 introduces a bug where pushing start without naming a character will crash the game. *Sighs*
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: vivify93 on December 02, 2018, 06:05:50 am
Looks impressive! By the way, I recognize Bagunagu as Bagh Nakh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh_nakh), which are in Star Ocean 1, if you were curious.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 02, 2018, 07:17:56 am
Looks impressive! By the way, I recognize Bagunagu as Bagh Nakh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh_nakh), which are in Star Ocean 1, if you were curious.

I just don't understand how Bagh Nakh becomes a throwing weapon. It's one of those instances in this where even the very wonky and meaningless localization makes more sense.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Digitsie on December 02, 2018, 09:52:15 am
Maybe if it was meant to be a knuckle weapon before it got moved...
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on December 02, 2018, 12:00:20 pm
I wouldn't retain FuSoYa's script at all; it's not a retranslation of the original script, but rather a bunch of extra crap slung on top of the English translation in order to justify the VWF. As for the uses of 'chibi'/'chibikko', I'd replace them with "Li'l" (e.g. "Li'l Devil") rather than reference Minish Cap, but...that's just me. (Also, I noticed 'fiery' was misspelled in 'Fiery Cocktail'.)

Rest of it looks good, though, and I look forward to the final output.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 02, 2018, 12:21:19 pm
I wouldn't retain FuSoYa's script at all; it's not a retranslation of the original script, but rather a bunch of extra crap slung on top of the English translation in order to justify the VWF. As for the uses of 'chibi'/'chibikko', I'd replace them with "Li'l" (e.g. "Li'l Devil") rather than reference Minish Cap, but...that's just me. (Also, I noticed 'fiery' was misspelled in 'Fiery Cocktail'.)

Rest of it looks good, though, and I look forward to the final output.
Minish is also an archaic form of the word "diminish", I stuck it on the hammer because it has consonance with Hammer.If people prefer, I can absolutely switch it to something else.

Unfortunately, FuSoYa's VWF script isn't so easy to divorce from his VWF code. That code is absolutely necessary for playing the game.

After comparing the original translation, FuSoYa's expanded version, and the HD Remake's translation side by side, I can tell you that FuSoYa's expansion isn't terribly far off the mark in terms of what was intended.

Any preference on replacing the word "Buster" for "Slayer"?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Swordmaster on December 02, 2018, 05:31:31 pm
(Also, I noticed 'fiery' was misspelled in 'Fiery Cocktail'.)
I just wanted to point out that "fiery" is actually spelled correctly.  My apologies, Kiyoshi Aman.  Below is a link to an explanation as to why.

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2006/08/why-isnt-there-a-fire-in-fiery.html
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 02, 2018, 05:41:44 pm
Holy hell! I just realized that I've been using your translation guide for my hack Kiyoshi Aman.

It's been incredibly helpful. Thank you for your efforts. Btw I think I just solved what I've been calling the Kimono Bird puzzle.

Spoiler:
It used to drive me crazy that the Ultimate Bow was called the Garuda Buster when Garuda aren't really featured in the game.

Then I realized that they actually were. The Kimono Birds aka Garasha are not actually reference to Gracia as Sky Render has theorized. I think Garasha is one of those tricky Japanese contractions of the words Garuda, the afformentioned mythological eagle men, and Rasha which means felt or woolen cloth.

The Garasharam or Kimono Wizard is the same phrase but with ram (lamb) tacked on at the end.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on December 02, 2018, 07:46:30 pm
I just wanted to point out that "fiery" is actually spelled correctly.  My apologies, Kiyoshi Aman.  Below is a link to an explanation as to why.

No, it actually was misspelled; it was just corrected by the time you had a look. ;)

Holy hell! I just realized that I've been using your translation guide for my hack Kiyoshi Aman.

It's been incredibly helpful. Thank you for your efforts. Btw I think I just solved what I've been calling the Kimono Bird puzzle.

You're welcome. And yeah, that's definitely a possibility.

Any preference on replacing the word "Buster" for "Slayer"?

Go for it. 'Slayer' gets the idea across better.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Swordmaster on December 03, 2018, 08:24:45 am
No, it actually was misspelled; it was just corrected by the time you had a look. ;)
lol, guess I was late to the party...   :-X
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 07, 2018, 11:11:17 am
I thought I better drop a little update. I finished my preliminary bug testing. All that's left is to modify the game's credit sequence a little bit and last but not least the game's critical hit dialogue.

You may remember it as "Rabite gets Whacked!". As much as I want to change it from "_gets_Whacked!" to "_is_Critically Hit!", I cannot. Because of spacing limitations, I am limited to the original 14 character limit.

Here are the 3 options I propose:

1. Change Nothing. "Rabite gets whacked!" is Ted Woolsey at his finest!

2. Modern Update. "Rabite gets Rocked!" for a more serious take!

3. More Modern Update. "Rabite gets Wrecked!" for a sillier take! (I cannot justify using as our spelling "Rekt!", Sorry Internet).



This is not a contest and these are not votes. I'm just getting feedback, some of which comes from offsite sources. That said, I'm looking for responses ASAP. I'd like to be done with this thing completely before the night is over. Clocks ticking.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: SC on December 07, 2018, 01:55:25 pm
Keep the Woolsey style there.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: KingMike on December 07, 2018, 11:07:10 pm
They all sound about equally terrible, so I'd leave it unless you can come up with something significantly better.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Digitsie on December 07, 2018, 11:10:00 pm
Rabite bit the dust!
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: julayla on December 09, 2018, 11:25:14 pm
Keep the Woolsey style there.

Agreed. The Woolsey style is the best for me.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: tampa03cobra on December 11, 2018, 10:55:47 am
Agreed. The Woolsey style is the best for me.

For all of it's limitations in retrospect, at the time there was a certain charm to Ted Woolsey's work in the translations.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 14, 2018, 08:07:28 pm
For all of it's limitations in retrospect, at the time there was a certain charm to Ted Woolsey's work in the translations.
Which is absolutely why we're keeping "whacked".

Just to give a little status update. I don't have as much time to play through the game as I do to edit it, so bug testing is taking longer than anticipated. Bug testing progress is slowly being made. Good thing too, because it turns out that most of FuSoYa's opening lines for Gemma (formerly Jema) take up the maximum displayable width. Expanding his name exceeds that in many places.

I've been fiddling with the text quite a bit. I decided that I wanted to make the game's items match up with the graphics. So, items like the Quill Cap will be called the Bunny Cap. The Spear/Lance Javelin/Spear thing is getting an update as well. When playing through the game I've found it very difficult to call the Lances by the proper Japanese name because in all but two cases, they aren't actually lances. They're Pikes.

Unfortunately, Pike simply isn't a common word these days and Spear is more of an all encompassing word including Pike, Lance, Javelin, Pilum, and numerous other pointed sticks. My current thought to make the images and descriptions match is to eliminate Spear from either weapon category and instead call them Polearms and Javelins. Afterall, Halberds, Partisans, Spears and Lances are not all considered spears or lances but they are all considered Polearms. While the same cannot be said of Spears, Forks, Pilums, Tridents, and Javelins, they are all common throwing Spears and the most commonly used term for throwing spear is Javelin.

All of this and more will be updated in the original post.

Now, about the Cobra Shuttle. I'm still kind of torn on this one. In Japanese it's called the Bagh Nakh which translates to Tiger's Claws in Hindi and is a hand held claw weapon. Both names are meaningless and stupid. Graphically, the weapon is a Kobari Ryu Manji Shuriken or Kobari School Manji Shuriken. While "Manji Shuriken" is the best possible name for the weapon the Manji prefix makes it seem special and more significant than the stronger and more plainly named "Shuriken" weapon. I see two answers to this problem. We can call it the Cobra Manji and be done with it or we can rename both weapons more specifically, calling them the "Manji Shuriken" and "Hira Shuriken".

I've opted to rename both but as always I would love to hear feedback and criticism.

Finally, I've made one gameplay change. It doesn't affect the balance of the game at all. It's more of an easter egg really. You can find this little gem in one of the game's item shops.

December 21, 2018, 10:01:06 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Does anyone know how to modify the "...->" text when upgrading weapons? It seems there is some  preset spacing for all of the weapons. On some weapons it's all the way to the right. On others, it cuts off the weapon's name. It looks terrible and I really want to fix this before releasing this patch and moving onto adding the hd re-translation.
(https://i.imgur.com/0XXHsh8.png)(https://i.imgur.com/JvnIeqM.png)(https://i.imgur.com/A6opDtn.png)


On another note. I'm almost done play-testing and making fixes. I'll be releasing a beta in the next few days with or without a fix.

Side request: Does anyone know what the code directly following Neko's shop in the grand shrine is for? I'd like to expand his shop by one or two items for a little side hack and I need one or two extra bytes to do it. The two bytes in question start at 18FCFB.

Honestly, I wish I could answer these questions myself. Does a more well documented ROM map than datacrystal's exist somewhere that I'm not aware of?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: mziab on December 26, 2018, 03:15:58 pm

Does anyone know how to modify the "...->" text when upgrading weapons? It seems there is some  preset spacing for all of the weapons. On some weapons it's all the way to the right. On others, it cuts off the weapon's name. It looks terrible and I really want to fix this before releasing this patch and moving onto adding the hd re-translation.


Since it doesn't display in the same place for each weapon, I guess the position for each must be stored somewhere rather than being one hardcoded address. Should be relatively easy to track down using a debugger, unless the game does something really wonky.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: chillyfeez on December 27, 2018, 12:34:08 am
  • Alter ---> Stage ---> Alter

Alter (v) - change or to cause change

Altar (n) - a table or flat-topped block used as the focus for a religious ritual
Title: Re: Secret of Mana Expanded and Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 27, 2018, 01:23:26 am
Alter (v) - change or to cause change

Altar (n) - a table or flat-topped block used as the focus for a religious ritual
Wasn't actually a problem in the game's dialogue. I did however fix it in the changelog.

Since it doesn't display in the same place for each weapon, I guess the position for each must be stored somewhere rather than being one hardcoded address. Should be relatively easy to track down using a debugger, unless the game does something really wonky.
I believe I fixed this problem. I believe it was a bug caused by giving weapons' names longer than 16 characters.

In other news. I just released a beta for testing. You can find in the original post of this topic.

v0.2 released. See first post for details
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: AlternativeZeroSubs on December 28, 2018, 02:09:28 am
Apologies but the link isn't working for me.

EDIT: Link is working again, no idea what the problem is, thanks for your hard work.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on December 30, 2018, 01:04:36 am
Apologies but the link isn't working for me.

EDIT: Link is working again, no idea what the problem is, thanks for your hard work.

Sorry. I had to take the link down kind of abruptly the other night. I though I'd put it back up in the next day, but I messed up my url tags. It should be fixed now.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 16, 2019, 06:01:28 pm
So, instead of releasing a v0.3 I submitted a proper hack to the site. Hopefully, it gets approved. However, today, I just learned a new trick.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ys1Bpfr.png)(https://i.imgur.com/UzoZGQH.png)(https://i.imgur.com/FeZIBqO.png)(https://i.imgur.com/ueH4GdQ.png)

So, modifying the title image is extremely hard and the one guy I know who has actually done it successfully doesn't remember how he did it. For now, this is kind of the best I can do. The 4th one is photoshopped but I should in theory actually be able to create this.

I would really appreciate some feedback. What does everyone think?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Avicalendriya on January 16, 2019, 06:16:33 pm
"Relocalized" describes the project in terms of the work being done, but localizing the original title itself would probably best represent the underlying content while discarding the need for any such subtitle.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 16, 2019, 06:19:49 pm
"Relocalized" describes the project in terms of the work being done, but localizing the original title itself would probably best represent the underlying content while discarding the need for any such subtitle.

So, you're saying it's too meta? So, you think I should drop "Relocalized" from the title and just go with "Seiken Densetsu II: Secret of Mana"? It seems kind of pompous to call my little addendum hack that. It's like one step down from calling "Secret of Mana: The Definitive Edition".

Anyhoo... here's what the actual "Smooshed M" version of the title screen looks like.(https://i.imgur.com/v8VOIaT.png)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 17, 2019, 05:43:41 am
The relocalized subtitle seems fine to me.
Don't know how I feel about using the actual Japanese title in a re-localization.
Seems to me that ideally it should have "Legend of the Holy Sword" as the main title and "Secret of mana: Relocalized" as the subtitle. Probably not enough room for that though.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: VioletFox on January 17, 2019, 07:25:20 am
What about having the title be "Secret of Mana 2" so you can fix the incorrect numbering of the series.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: tc on January 17, 2019, 07:29:11 am
This is tougher to look right than I'd expected. The remake awkwardly tacked Secret of Mana, in English at that, onto the Japanese title.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on January 17, 2019, 11:31:13 am
I have an idea that few people will going to be in agreement with me

Why don't try to restore the original picture of the title screen?
the problem is that when SoM was localized in america the picture of the title screen was unecessary zoomed and blurred
(http://i.imgur.com/Yk7oxO5.png)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: KingMike on January 17, 2019, 12:33:11 pm
I recall part of the original Japanese image (under the logo) was actually missing/blurred as it was.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 17, 2019, 12:36:37 pm
I have an idea that few people will going to be in agreement with me

Why don't try to restore the original picture of the title screen?
the problem is that when SoM was localized in america the picture of the title screen was unecessary zoomed and blurred
(http://i.imgur.com/Yk7oxO5.png)

Believe me if I could I would. The blur isn't an issue anymore. We know how to extract and decompress the original image but no one has figured out how to recompress it and put it back.

Here's the latest look at my current title screen:

(https://i.imgur.com/dbYM7HE.png)(https://i.imgur.com/UoyHlts.png)

I'm actually considering moving the Subtitle down to the bottom and moving all of the legalease to the first screen.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: TheHarunate on January 23, 2019, 12:56:52 am
Yes, finally!
I've been waiting for a classic SoM hack that restores all those heavily-censored names - because I couldn't stand those censored names - even on the 3D remake which only enjoyed script overhaul but barely any uncensoring. I once tried using Mop's old editor to try and uncensor all those names, but couldn't go far enough. Glad to see someone finally working on that - complete with VWF. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Speaking of the confusion between Cobra Shuttle and Baghnakh, I think I'd keep the name "Cobra Shuttle" since the weapon inflicts poison, which makes more sense than Baghnakh. Also, "GP" should be retired completely as they've established "Lucre" as the official in-game currency of the Mana series since the beginning IIRC. Yes, even the Japanese version called it "Lucre" - though we never really heard of "Lucre" until Legend of Mana. And, oh, keep "Frizbar" on. That sounds way more original than Battle Frisbee.

BTW, I've compiled a spreadsheet of roughly every names from the game - except character names.
Check it out if you're interested (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O_zIqOL8VlfhtKUUv74HmWQHm9RmkuMztZbeVhgiOw8/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Special on January 24, 2019, 11:29:03 am
I've been wanting to play this since I have a little free time right now with work, but I've seen that a new version has been stuck in Queue for several days now... Would you be willing to upload the files to another host, the Queue BS on this site can be such as nuisance.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 24, 2019, 01:45:13 pm
Yes, finally!
I've been waiting for a classic SoM hack that restores all those heavily-censored names - because I couldn't stand those censored names - even on the 3D remake which only enjoyed script overhaul but barely any uncensoring. I once tried using Mop's old editor to try and uncensor all those names, but couldn't go far enough. Glad to see someone finally working on that - complete with VWF. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Speaking of the confusion between Cobra Shuttle and Baghnakh, I think I'd keep the name "Cobra Shuttle" since the weapon inflicts poison, which makes more sense than Baghnakh. Also, "GP" should be retired completely as they've established "Lucre" as the official in-game currency of the Mana series since the beginning IIRC. Yes, even the Japanese version called it "Lucre" - though we never really heard of "Lucre" until Legend of Mana. And, oh, keep "Frizbar" on. That sounds way more original than Battle Frisbee.

BTW, I've compiled a spreadsheet of roughly every names from the game - except character names.
Check it out if you're interested (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O_zIqOL8VlfhtKUUv74HmWQHm9RmkuMztZbeVhgiOw8/edit?usp=sharing)

I actually just created a version that restores "Cobra Shuttle". Not because of it's poison quality but because I forgot that it's combat graphic is an actual boomerang. I basically, just threw my hands up in the air and surrendered to the nonsense. I also dropped the "Hira" from the "Shuriken".

I looked over your document, most of your names are fairly unrelated to the source material. This website has almost everything: https://inari.aerdan.org//translations/secretofmana.html (https://inari.aerdan.org//translations/secretofmana.html). It actually got me started on this whole project. Your spreadsheet totally reminded me that Square has been using "Moonring Blade" instead of Full Moon Ring for a while so that's definitely a change I'm willing to make, especially because it was the last 3-word item holdouts. "Frizbar" is gone and never coming back. It really goes against the spirit of the new localization.

I would loooove to implement "Lucre". "GP" just feels like such an old school holdout. However, there isn't space for it. If you look at the Status Screen or any of the shops, you'll see that there is no room for more than two characters. I have considered switching out "GP" for "LP" or "Lu" in shops, windows, and menus and referring to it as Lucre in dialogue.

I've been wanting to play this since I have a little free time right now with work, but I've seen that a new version has been stuck in Queue for several days now... Would you be willing to upload the files to another host, the Queue BS on this site can be such as nuisance.

Your wish has been granted. Check the original post for a link.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on January 24, 2019, 04:02:54 pm
^^ Thanks a ton!
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: ShockwaveS08 on January 24, 2019, 08:18:36 pm
Been playing SOM:R on my first run; very nice work! I did notice a bug regarding GP, where if you went over a certain triple-digit amount (450-500, I think), the GP would erroneously display a double-digit amount until you bought an item from a merchant. This applies to both the Shop menu and the Status screen.

Speaking of the Status screen, any chance of working in a cleaner, more-readable font than the default one? I'm seeing pixels shaved off of certain letters and numbers, leaving me confused for a moment as I tried to read this incredibly-small text.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: DragonArk on January 24, 2019, 08:45:15 pm
Do you think you can remake the Japanese SoM intro with the English heading? I did a quick Photoshop of the intro and filled in the blurred part (someone might be able to make it better). Feel free to use it.
(https://i.imgur.com/7wXU3QX.jpg)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 24, 2019, 09:38:42 pm
Do you think you can remake the Japanese SoM intro with the English heading? I did a quick Photoshop of the intro and filled in the blurred part (someone might be able to make it better). Feel free to use it.
(https://i.imgur.com/7wXU3QX.jpg)
This and reinstating the Death Machine are the two big things on my wishlist.

If I knew how to, I absolutely would have done it already. It seems that no one actually knows how to properly compress and reinsert the damned thing though.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: VWF Edition - Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 25, 2019, 02:28:20 pm
"Lu" in shops, windows, and menus and referring to it as Lucre in dialogue.

I support this 1000%
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: vivify93 on January 25, 2019, 04:39:03 pm
Hey Timbo, have you thought about evening out the M of Mana in your custom logo, so it looks less... edited?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pw5tQzq.png)

I was thinking something like this.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: w1ck3d on January 25, 2019, 09:23:27 pm
Do you think you can remake the Japanese SoM intro with the English heading? I did a quick Photoshop of the intro and filled in the blurred part (someone might be able to make it better). Feel free to use it.

Not sure if it'll help with editing, but a few years ago I scanned the pack-in poster & nintendo power poster in high resolution.

http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/644867
http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/670246
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 26, 2019, 11:54:44 am
Hey Timbo, have you thought about evening out the M of Mana in your custom logo, so it looks less... edited?

(https://i.imgur.com/Pw5tQzq.png)

I was thinking something like this.

I can't believe I didn't see this the first time around. Now, that I've seen it, I can't un-see it and it needs to change. Here's the thing though. The title and all the text are all just preassembled tiles. I can rearrange them but I can't edit them individually. When I "smooshed" the "M" I just removed the two tiles just below the top and lowered the top down.

To date, Hiei- is the only person who has actually succeeded in editing the title tiles and he doesn't remember how he did it. If I could edit the tiles, I would turn them white and I would create a proper "2" tile. If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

Here are some mockups I just made for the new title:
(https://i.imgur.com/pbPPKMv.png)(https://i.imgur.com/LxISecf.png)

Otherwise. I'll just have to cut the pre-title completely.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: vivify93 on January 26, 2019, 12:33:44 pm
Oh, gotcha. I'm sorry. I had no idea. I'd go with the first out of your edit suggestions.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 27, 2019, 11:36:31 am
Oh, gotcha. I'm sorry. I had no idea. I'd go with the first out of your edit suggestions.

No need to apologize. It's you hadn't bought it to my attention, that title image would still be a huge eyesore.

In fact, it started a discussion between me and Mziab and he's looking into extracting the intro tiles. It's looking promising...

We're still stuck with the crummy background but, if he pulls this off we can redraw the ascii text and make whole new title tiles.

Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: FuSoYa on January 27, 2019, 06:51:19 pm
If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

You can grab Lunar Compress from https://fusoya.eludevisibility.org/lc/ (https://fusoya.eludevisibility.org/lc/), then to extract and reinsert on a ROM with a header you'd just use:

decomp.exe som.smc title.bin 1CEA00 6 0
recomp.exe title.bin som.smc 1CEA00 6 0

Though you might want to recompress to a separate file first just to compare the compressed size with the original (with unedited data you'll get the same compressed size as the original, but of course with edited data all bets are off... you can check with something like recomp.exe title.bin titleC.bin 0 6 0).  If it ends up bigger, you'll want to track down the pointer so you can move the data somewhere else.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: TheHarunate on January 27, 2019, 09:21:32 pm
I looked over your document, most of your names are fairly unrelated to the source material. This website has almost everything: https://inari.aerdan.org//translations/secretofmana.html (https://inari.aerdan.org//translations/secretofmana.html). It actually got me started on this whole project. Your spreadsheet totally reminded me that Square has been using "Moonring Blade" instead of Full Moon Ring for a while so that's definitely a change I'm willing to make, especially because it was the last 3-word item holdouts. "Frizbar" is gone and never coming back. It really goes against the spirit of the new localization.

I would loooove to implement "Lucre". "GP" just feels like such an old school holdout. However, there isn't space for it. If you look at the Status Screen or any of the shops, you'll see that there is no room for more than two characters. I have considered switching out "GP" for "LP" or "Lu" in shops, windows, and menus and referring to it as Lucre in dialogue.

When it comes to the unrelated names, I believe that's because I didn't like how the weapons were named in the original English translation. As a classic FF fan, I didn't like seeing Excalibur and Masamune as only mid-tier swords ever since the first time I played through SoM 15 years ago. Hence why I eventually came up with those name options that are sometimes unrelated to the source material (some of them were inspired from FF) - at least until I saw the Japanese version.

As for Frizbar... okay, "Battle Frisbee" is fine, too.

Space issues for Lucre? You can shorten it to "Lc".

Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?
Also, for Pure Land, are you going to name it "Mana Holyland" like in Seiken Densetsu 3? Or you wanna go for "Mana Sanctuary"?
"Boulders" are actually "Beholders"? Oh, man, I was mistaken after all these years playing Seiken Densetsu 3 and checking out SoM's 3D remake. :-[
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Hiei- on January 27, 2019, 09:45:47 pm
To date, Hiei- is the only person who has actually succeeded in editing the title tiles and he doesn't remember how he did it. If I could edit the tiles, I would turn them white and I would create a proper "2" tile. If anyone can point me in the right direction for getting in there and editing any/all of this, I would be happy to make new tiles. Possibly an entirely new logo out of them.

From what I said in PM :

For example, I found in my log the title has been moved in the expanded part of the rom (0x230000), so near the intro (which has also been moved in the expanded part of the rom (0x251000).

I guess we modified a pointer somewhere to redirect it to 0x230000.

We also found the tilemap and palette of the title screen, I'll have to dig my logs about that too.

I can confirm I used LunarCompress/Decompress as I double checked and I listed them on the translation staff.

LUNAR COMPRESS: FUSOYA[NewLine]
LUNAR DECOMPRESS: FUSOYA[NewLine]

(But only for the title screen, the intro was decompressed/recompressed with a LUA script made by BahaBulle).

You might want to contact him, he's also the one who did the modifications to reinsert the censored boss (he explained me how to do the search/tests, I did them and he made the modifications), but not sure if he still has the sources.

You just had to check this adress in the rom with a Tile Editor and you would have known easily if it was compressed or not. Then, you had to calculate the pointer of the adress 0x230000 and search where the pointer is in the rom and it would have gave you the original title screen adress.

To summary:

Compressed intro is at 0x251000 in my rom (I think I said it in PM). Original intro adresss seems to be x07B480 (from my logs)

Title screen is at 0x230000 in my rom. For the original adress, you can just search the pointer adress in my rom and you'll know where it is, but seems FuSoYa already gave the adress, 0x1CEA00.

Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 27, 2019, 11:34:57 pm
Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?

That is not a very good romanization of the word.

Mōguri is the purest way of representing it.

It's an odd portmanteau of the Japanese word for a type of mole (mogura) and bat (kōmori).

MOgura + koOHmori + moGUra + koohmoRI
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: WildWolf21 on January 28, 2019, 12:53:38 am
Quick Question: Recently, this patch was released that changed up how you acquired the level 9 weapon orbs:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4309/

So I was wondering if that patch is compatible with the relocalization patch you made, or if I’m just better off sticking to the FuSoYa VFW patch until you can get it working with it.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 28, 2019, 01:53:49 am
Quick Question: Recently, this patch was released that changed up how you acquired the level 9 weapon orbs:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4309/

So I was wondering if that patch is compatible with the relocalization patch you made, or if I’m just better off sticking to the FuSoYa VFW patch until you can get it working with it.

It is totally compatible with the level 9 weapon hack. You can do my hack or Kethinov's in any order as long as FuSoYa's VWF comes first.

I'm currently working on a much bigger hack though that incorporates this hack and many others. This video showcases a couple of my own hacks.

https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g (https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g)

January 28, 2019, 02:53:28 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
When it comes to the unrelated names, I believe that's because I didn't like how the weapons were named in the original English translation. As a classic FF fan, I didn't like seeing Excalibur and Masamune as only mid-tier swords ever since the first time I played through SoM 15 years ago. Hence why I eventually came up with those name options that are sometimes unrelated to the source material (some of them were inspired from FF) - at least until I saw the Japanese version.

As for Frizbar... okay, "Battle Frisbee" is fine, too.

Space issues for Lucre? You can shorten it to "Lc".

Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?
Also, for Pure Land, are you going to name it "Mana Holyland" like in Seiken Densetsu 3? Or you wanna go for "Mana Sanctuary"?
"Boulders" are actually "Beholders"? Oh, man, I was mistaken after all these years playing Seiken Densetsu 3 and checking out SoM's 3D remake. :-[

If you download my patch, you can see most if not all of the changes I made to the game's nomenclature. I kept Pure Land. It gets the point across just as well as and is half as awkward as Mana Holy Land. I could be convinced to fiddle with it though if there were enough strong opinions.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 29, 2019, 02:39:25 pm
I dig Pure Land. It has a fairy-tale sort of vibe and that is what the Mana series was intended to be.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 29, 2019, 02:57:12 pm
I dig Pure Land. It has a fairy-tale sort of vibe and that is what the Mana series was intended to be.

I do too. It's over if those rare censorship moments that's also just great localization.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 29, 2019, 06:00:33 pm
Anyway, I just saw the site you linked. And... Moogle were "Mowgli"? (pfft) What is this? The Jungle Book?

Hi.

I chose 'Mowgli' because 'Moglie' doesn't carry across the 'oh' sound and there isn't really anything better. I certainly wasn't going to defer to the official localization. I also don't really buy the portmanteau theory, since Japanese don't really do portmanteaus in that style; they prefer to instead take the first two morae of each word (e.g. Hagaren for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi).
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 30, 2019, 04:43:55 pm
So, the Lucre update is happening. There are a few places it needs to be abbreviated though to fit. The Status Screen, the Save Screen and the transactional window that's found at vendors or where you find money in prepositioned treasure boxes. In all of these windows the two letter abbreviation will be adjacent to the amount of money.

In a vanilla rom it looks like this:

28679GP

The abbreviation can only be 2 characters long. So, we're looking at these options: L, l, LC, Lc, lc, LU, Lu, or lu. This is what I can think of off the top of my head if anyone has a better suggestion, please speak up. I've included some examples below for visual reference:



Let me know what you think. I could use some feedback because it all just looks like compromise to me.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on January 30, 2019, 05:11:13 pm
That's a toughy, I like LC or lc
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: vivify93 on January 30, 2019, 06:01:17 pm
I like just "L". It reminds me of G from Chrono Trigger.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Hiei- on January 30, 2019, 07:09:08 pm
(http://www.hiei-tf.fr/som-lucs.png)

I did like this, personally. Before, I was using "LC" in the menus and "lucs" in the texts.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on January 30, 2019, 07:14:28 pm
(http://www.hiei-tf.fr/som-lucs.png)

I did like this, personally. Before, I was using "LC" in the menus and "lucs" in the texts.

Ooooohhhh that's perty, I feel like Lucre could be condensed into 3 or squish tiles easily enough. FuSoYa's font doesn't appear as forgiving ss yours though.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Queue on January 30, 2019, 07:44:31 pm
I think just "L" is the only non-compromised abbreviation. It would also put a much needed space between numerals and the currency signifier. You could also potentially exercise artistic license and make a stylized L character (the way cents or dollar signs are effectively a letter c or S with a bar or two through it). Though for real world reference, the only currency that uses just an "L" seems to just go with an unstylized L. (https://www.xe.com/symbols.php)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 31, 2019, 06:15:36 am
I like Lc the best, but just L is fine as long as that extra little gap between the Numbers and letter can be  maintained.


Hi.

I chose 'Mowgli' because 'Moglie' doesn't carry across the 'oh' sound and there isn't really anything better. I certainly wasn't going to defer to the official localization. I also don't really buy the portmanteau theory, since Japanese don't really do portmanteaus in that style; they prefer to instead take the first two morae of each word (e.g. Hagaren for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi).

Out of curiosity, do you have an alternative theory?
After all, just because it's not a common method of portmanteau doesn't mean they didn't do it that way.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Kiyoshi Aman on January 31, 2019, 03:39:26 pm
Out of curiosity, do you have an alternative theory?
After all, just because it's not a common method of portmanteau doesn't mean they didn't do it that way.

No, but it doesn't really matter that much anyhow.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on January 31, 2019, 06:53:45 pm
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Burger on February 01, 2019, 09:47:48 am
Hi.

I chose 'Mowgli' because 'Moglie' doesn't carry across the 'oh' sound and there isn't really anything better. I certainly wasn't going to defer to the official localization. I also don't really buy the portmanteau theory, since Japanese don't really do portmanteaus in that style; they prefer to instead take the first two morae of each word (e.g. Hagaren for Hagane no Renkinjutsushi).

They're called Moguri in both Spanish and Italian, and Mogry in German, both of which are far far more sensible options.

(I'm also faaaairly sure that mogura + komori name origin has been officially confirmed by Squeenix staff, and is not just a fan theory. And Japan absolutely does portmanteaus in that style, Pokemon in particular is full of them)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 01, 2019, 01:35:03 pm
(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/titles/4324titlescreen.png)

Updated to v1.3.

Changelog:

v1.3 Changes

-"Seiken Densetsu II: Removed from the game's logo.
-Legalese restored to the opening of the text crawl but removed entirely from the end. In it's place is the subtitle "VWF Edition: Relocalized"
-Instances of "Money" or "GP" replaced with "Lucre" or "L"
-Minor text edits.
-Final Credit Sequence adjusted.

Download it here: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: ShockwaveS08 on February 02, 2019, 01:30:06 pm
Bug Report with v1.3: When using shops, be they in-town or via the Wandering Merchant, prices are still listed in GP, rather than the new standard of Lucre (L).
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 02, 2019, 09:49:45 pm
Bug Report with v1.3: When using shops, be they in-town or via the Wandering Merchant, prices are still listed in GP, rather than the new standard of Lucre (L).
What?! Grrr...

So embarrassing.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on February 03, 2019, 04:00:55 pm
The fact the square legalece was removed makes the title screen more...empty?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 11, 2019, 08:09:53 am
(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/4324screenshot1.png)(http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/snes/images/4324screenshot2.png)

Secret of Mana Relocalized has just been updated to v1.4. It now contains Queue's fully restored Kettle Kin hack, restored religious imagery, and some other neat things.

You can download it here:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/)

v1.4 Changes
-Replaced last remaining instance of "GP" with "L"
-Changed "Stamina" to "Fortitude" in the Status and Skills Menus.
-Replaced "wait 'till you have 100% power" with  "wait 'till your stamina is
 at 100%".
-Added Queue's gorgeous title screen hack and stuck his name in the credits.
-Adjusted the intro text to accommodate for the Title Screen hack.
-Restored Kettle Kin to his pre-censored Death Machine form with Queue's
 Kettle Kin hack.
-Added a new Weapon/Magic Levels icon. It replaces the ugly magic icon with a
 staff like the remake.
-Corrected some very minor shading issues with some of the game's menu icons.
-Restored the teleportation circles in the Haunted Forest back to their
 pre-censored versions.
-Fixed the GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO bug.
-Changed Morning Star to Chain Flail.
-Changed Hammer Flail to Chain Hammer.
-Changed Flaming Cocktail to Fiery Cocktail.
-Changed Twinkly Barrier back to Tinkly Barrier.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 11, 2019, 10:25:18 am
That title screen is amazing! But probably should remove IMO the "VWF Edition: Relocalized" part to just "Relocalized Edition" or "-Relocalized-" because otherwise it's just a mouthful of a title, and VWF is like wut? Even though I know what it stands for. The name of this hack is "Secret of Mana: Relocalized" so that's what should be displayed.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 11, 2019, 10:54:06 am
That title screen is amazing! But probably should remove IMO the "VWF Edition: Relocalized" part to just "Relocalized Edition" or "-Relocalized-" because otherwise it's just a mouthful of a title, and VWF is like wut? Even though I know what it stands for. The name of this hack is "Secret of Mana: Relocalized" so that's what should be displayed.

You're not wrong. It is a mouthful and the screen would look better without it...

Also, I when I first changed "Lucid Barrier" to "Twinkly Barrier" I thought the original Japanese "Tinkle Barrier" was just Engrish for "Twinkle Barrier". Right before I submitted the update to RHDN, I realized that the word tinkle is defined as a clear, ringing, sound, which is exactly how I would describe the sound effect.

I got so excited that I changed it and totally forgot to consider the fact that it's also a way to describe urinating.... Sigh... :-[
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: acediez on February 11, 2019, 10:59:02 am
Why not remove the hacks name from the title screen altogether?
My opinion for improvement hacks is that they're better added silently, rather than differentiating itself as a separate version, specially if they're compatible with other improvement hacks. I totally respect if you wish to keep it, though.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 11, 2019, 11:33:26 am
Why not remove the hacks name from the title screen altogether?
My opinion for improvement hacks is that they're better added silently, rather than differentiating itself as a separate version, specially if they're compatible with other improvement hacks. I totally respect if you wish to keep it, though.

I am considering this. When I initially added the subtitle, I added FuSoYa's as well because his script is such an important aspect of this hack.

Removing it entirely is probably the best decision. I preserved his name on the final credits (It actually appears above my own). That should be more than enough.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 11, 2019, 12:00:33 pm
Even just replacing the colon (punctuation) with a plus is better, as it shows that it's two hacks combined "VWF Edition + Relocalized", but personally I like it when things are clean, ™, ®, etc. can get out of my title screens. :p
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: WildWolf21 on February 13, 2019, 01:46:37 am
Don't know if this is intentional or not, but whenever i open a treasure chest that has money in it, it'll still say "Acquired X GP" instead of "Acquired X L"
I'm using this patch along with Kethinov's Level 9 weapon progression patch, so i don't know if using them together is causing that issue, or if it's part of the problem with 1.4 of the re-localization.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 13, 2019, 03:59:08 am
Don't know if this is intentional or not, but whenever i open a treasure chest that has money in it, it'll still say "Acquired X GP" instead of "Acquired X L"
I'm using this patch along with Kethinov's Level 9 weapon progression patch, so i don't know if using them together is causing that issue, or if it's part of the problem with 1.4 of the re-localization.
Not a conflict. Just an oversight. Keep playing your game. I'll get a fix out soon. It won't mess up your saves.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: darthvaderx on February 13, 2019, 08:12:11 am
I posted this on the submissions topic but I think I should have done it right here:

Many SoM hacks applied directly after SoM Relocalized v1.4 do not work and crash the game (9-items, scroll, drop tab balance etc), but I managed to get everything worked, simply follow my list:

1-MSU-1 (v1.0) by DarkShock (optional, only if you use the MSU-1 hack)
2-Scroll Hack (v1.0) by Binarynova
3-Proper-caser (v0.1a) by vivify93 (Add Header)
4-Variable Width Font Edition (v1.0) by FuSoYa
5-Drop Table Balance (v1.0) by Kethinov
6-Item Limit Increase (v1.0.0) by Masterflow (Remove Header)
7-Restore Unused Fanfares (v1.1) by Kethinov
8-Level 9 Weapons Progression Balance (v1.2) by Kethinov
9-Better Default Text Boxes (v1.0) by Kethinov
10-Mana Early Luna (1.1) by Kethinov (optional, I do not think it adds much to the game)     
11-Earlier Midge Mallet (v1.0) by Kethinov
12-Relocalized (v1.4) by Timbo

But if you want everything ready, here it is (it does not have the MSU-1 hack that can be applied before and neither does the Mana Early Luna hack that can be applied later):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/659in2v8nuk4l8b/Secret%20of%20Mana%20%28U%29%20%5BRelocalized_1.4%2BHacks%5D.ips?dl=0

Now you have the most complete version of Secret of Mana of all time.
Now just waiting for the completion of the 'SoM turbo' which still includes 'New Gameplay Improvement' to become the definitive version ever ...
(Better than all this only if Nintendo had released the Super Famicom/Super Nintendo CD rom and so the release of the then-planned Secret of Mana CD, but that's another story ...)
Thanks a lot. 8)

EDIT: Do not you think that after all these great SoM projects finished Seiken Desentsu 3/Secret of Mana 2 also would not deserve a new revised translation with a more modern and beautiful font and several bugfixes also? (Ex: Rolante > Laurent.)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 13, 2019, 10:09:03 am
I posted this on the submissions topic but I think I should have done it right here:

Many SoM hacks applied directly after SoM Relocalized v1.4 do not work and crash the game (9-items, scroll, drop tab balance etc), but I managed to get everything worked, simply follow my list:

1-MSU-1 (v1.0) by DarkShock (optional, only if you use the MSU-1 hack)
2-Scroll Hack (v1.0) by Binarynova
3-Proper-caser (v0.1a) by vivify93 (Add Header)
4-Variable Width Font Edition (v1.0) by FuSoYa
5-Drop Table Balance (v1.0) by Kethinov
6-Item Limit Increase (v1.0.0) by Masterflow (Remove Header)
7-Restore Unused Fanfares (v1.1) by Kethinov
8-Level 9 Weapons Progression Balance (v1.2) by Kethinov
9-Better Default Text Boxes (v1.0) by Kethinov
10-Mana Early Luna (1.1) by Kethinov (optional, I do not think it adds much to the game)     
11-Earlier Midge Mallet (v1.0) by Kethinov
12-Relocalized (v1.4) by Timbo

But if you want everything ready, here it is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/659in2v8nuk4l8b/Secret%20of%20Mana%20%28U%29%20%5BRelocalized_1.4%2BHacks%5D.ips?dl=0

Now you have the most complete version of Secret of Mana of all time.
Now just waiting for the completion of the 'SoM turbo' which still includes 'New Gameplay Improvement' to become the definitive version ever ...
(Better than all this only if Nintendo had released the Super Famicom/Super Nintendo CD rom and so the release of the then-planned Secret of Mana CD, but that's another story ...)
Thanks a lot. 8)

EDIT: Do not you think that after all these great SoM projects finished Seiken Desentsu 3/Secret of Mana 2 also would not deserve a new revised translation with a more modern and beautiful font and several bugfixes also? (Ex: Rolante > Laurent.)

Great list. Thanks for doing this.

3. Proper Caser is made redundant by Relocalized and adds nothing.
4. VWF Edition is currently included in Relocalized and is not necessary.

Turbo isn't going to be a single hack. It's a list of optional hacks. More importantly, a lot of the things on this list and in Turbo will cause sequence breaks, spoil difficulty, or make nauseating chaos in places with scrolling backgrounds.

I think there is a big difference between definitive and complete. That said, Queue gave me a sneak peak of Turbo and it is going to be awesome. I intentionally left bug fixes out of this edition and provided Queue with what he needs to implement Relocalized in Turbo to let people play the game they want to play.

I've actually never played Seiken Densetsu 3 before btw but I am aware that it needs an update.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: 8.bit.fan on February 13, 2019, 01:47:05 pm
Great work on this and loving the 'restored' title screen!! :D
I've always wanted to do that but never found the time. Always wondered why SE butched the title screen but this looks great! :)

Any chances you'll incorporate adjustments such as making it easier to get all weapon orbs to the final level easier?

Cheers and great work!!  :thumbsup: :beer:

8-bit fan
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 13, 2019, 02:20:15 pm
Great work on this and loving the 'restored' title screen!! :D
I've always wanted to do that but never found the time. Always wondered why SE butched the title screen but this looks great! :)

Any chances you'll incorporate adjustments such as making it easier to get all weapon orbs to the final level easier?

Cheers and great work!!  :thumbsup: :beer:

8-bit fan

Why yes in fact. I'm currently hard at work fixing the last few bugs in this hack and I'm working on a project I'm calling Secret of Mana: World of Balance that balances difficulty, eliminates unreasonable grinding, fixes bugs, reworks weapons and spells, adds quality of life improvements, and incorporates Relocalized as well.

One of my favorite things is it changes the end game sequence so that all three players have something to do. Only Primm will have to cast Mana Magic to unseal the Mana Sword. Popoi gets a new spell unlocked called Manaburn that can penetrate the Mana Beast's Wall spell and it'll be strong enough to actually damage it. I'll add some dialogue about how the Mana Knight with the Mana Sword lets off a lot of energy that Popoi can redirect into a new spell.

Here's a video I made of my hack in action:

https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g (https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g)

You'll notice the Sword Randi is using is called the Ragnarok. That's the new 9th level sword. The Mana Sword exists outside of the 9 weapon levels. Kethinov's weapon hack is one of the many that will be fully incorporated into this one. I should probably mention that this isn't a new video. This is right after I finished that hack so I hadn't yet made the new spell icon for Manaburn. I actually turned the Mana beasts defenses down for the video. It's stats will be modified so that it puts up more of a fight. I'm also hoping to rework it's AI to get it to start using the rest of it's attacks.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on February 13, 2019, 02:53:20 pm
But is there a form to found the restored title screen patch anyways apart from turbo and relocalized?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 13, 2019, 02:55:00 pm
But is there a form to found the restored title screen patch anyways apart from turbo and relocalized?
No but you won't need one. Turbo will basically allow you to add it to any hack.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: 8.bit.fan on February 13, 2019, 03:11:47 pm
Why yes in fact. I'm currently hard at work fixing the last few bugs in this hack and I'm working on a project I'm calling Secret of Mana: World of Balance that balances difficulty, eliminates unreasonable grinding, fixes bugs, reworks weapons and spells, adds quality of life improvements, and incorporates Relocalized as well.

One of my favorite things is it changes the end game sequence so that all three players have something to do. Only Primm will have to cast Mana Magic to unseal the Mana Sword. Popoi gets a new spell unlocked called Manaburn that can penetrate the Mana Beast's Wall spell and it'll be strong enough to actually damage it. I'll add some dialogue about how the Mana Knight with the Mana Sword lets off a lot of energy that Popoi can redirect into a new spell.

Here's a video I made of my hack in action:

https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g (https://youtu.be/KGUVce0c_2g)

You'll notice the Sword Randi is using is called the Ragnarok. That's the new 9th level sword. The Mana Sword exists outside of the 9 weapon levels. Kethinov's weapon hack is one of the many that will be fully incorporated into this one. I should probably mention that this isn't a new video. This is right after I finished that hack so I hadn't yet made the new spell icon for Manaburn. I actually turned the Mana beasts defenses down for the video. It's stats will be modified so that it puts up more of a fight. I'm also hoping to rework it's AI to get it to start using the rest of it's attacks.
This sounds absolutely amazing and I can't wait for it!
Keep up the great work and I look forward to its release!!

Cheers!! :D
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: darthvaderx on February 13, 2019, 04:04:39 pm
3. Proper Caser is made redundant by Relocalized and adds nothing.
4. VWF Edition is currently included in Relocalized and is not necessary.

But for some reason if I had not put those redundant hacks before, others like 9 Items, Drop Table Balance, Scroll etc would make the game crash after I added Relocalized 1.4, strange ...
And also in that .ips that I supplied does not have the MSU-1 (which can be added first) and Mana Early Luna because I think it's entirely useless.

Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 13, 2019, 04:34:35 pm
But for some reason if I had not put those redundant hacks before, others like 9 Items, Drop Table Balance, Scroll etc would make the game crash after I added Relocalized 1.4, strange ...
And also in that .ips that I supplied does not have the MSU-1 (which can be added first) and Mana Early Luna because I think it's entirely useless.

It's probably a file size issue. Good find. That's again for doing this.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Cryo16 on February 17, 2019, 08:58:21 am
Hey is this hack compatible with Binarynova's scroll hack? if yes, how to install it along with this hack?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 18, 2019, 01:50:44 am
To be honest, I kinda liked the old 'Lucid Barrier' spell name. I laughed when you pointed out that tinkle barrier involved urination XD

I have to ask.. So now that Kettle Kin has been replaced by Death Machine, does that mean Kettle Kin is now just an unused boss? If so you could possibly make Goblin Village a place you can return to and have Kettle Kin as a boss there who drops an additional sword orb.

I love the updates (especially regarding fortitude and stamina mentions) it all goes a long way and I do have to agree all the title screen subtitles do kinda clutter it up. Have you considered adding a splash screen prior to the title. It should accomplish giving the necessary props without taking away from the new title screen. To be honest though I would be fine with just the word 'Relocalised' or perhaps a subtitle. It might be worth keeping the 'Secret of Mana' text yellow to help differentiate between the remake and this but I feel that is a pretty subjective thing.

Amazing work <3
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 21, 2019, 06:27:40 pm
About to release a fairly large update. Thought this time I'd talk about the changes before I do a release to get feedback from people.


Relocalized v1.5 Changelog.

-Major Overhaul to the entire system message system.
-Corrected original translation issue with Balloon Spell Description
-Minor adjustments to weapon and spell descriptions.
-Removed "VWF Edition: Relocalized" subtitle from title screen.
-Renamed "Hit %" to "Accuracy %"
-Renamed "Tinkly Barrier" to "Lucid Barrier"
-Renamed "Lycanslayer" to "Beastslayer"
-Renamed "Silver Chain" to "Silver Whip"
-Renamed "Chain Flail" to "Morningstar Whip"
-Renamed "Chain Hammer" to "Hammer Whip"
-Renamed "Diamond Chain" to "Diamond Whip"
-Renamed "Gigas Chain" to "Gigas Whip"
-Renamed "Blue Sorbet" to "Blue Bavarois"
-Renamed "The ultimate chain." to "The ultimate whip."
-Renamed "Gas Cloud" to "Bluster Gas"
-Renamed Shadow x1, x2 and x3 to Shadow Boy, Girl, and Sprite respectively.
-Renamed "Jabberwocky" to "Jabberwock"
-Renamed "Frost Gigas" to "Frost Giant"
-Renamed "Frost Gigas" to "Frost Giant"
-Renamed Turtle Guard to Tortoise Guard
-Renamed "Frost Gigas" to "Frost Giant"
-Renamed "Shrunk" to "Miniaturized"
-Renamed "Sleep Flower" to "Sleep"
-Continued to resist the urge to change "Flail of Hope" to "Vampire Killer"

I essentially did a full overhaul of the system messages. For the most part the "Rabite's poisoned!" format is gone. I've replaced with a more uniform "Rabite: Poisoned" This change was made to make the most out of the hardcoded 28 character limit for short window messages. Enemy names were expanded or reduced to 14 characters in length in a previous update.

Here are some of the new messages:
"<Name>: Magic Ended"
" Lucre!" -when opening a chest.
"Reflected!"
"<Name>: Critical Hit"
"Weakness: <Mana Spirit>" - When using Analyzer
"<Name>: Slowed"
"<Name>: Unconscious"
"<Name>: Frozen"
"<Name>: Petrified"
"<Name>: Confused"
"<Name>: Stunned"
"<Name>: Barreled"
"<Name>: Miniaturized"
"<Name>: Transformed"
"<Name>: Moogled"
"<Name>: Poisoned"
"<Name>: Burning"
"<Name> Has Died!"
"Shadow Zero!"
"Mystery Gas!"
"Boxing Glove"
"Poison Needles"
"Petrification Trap!"
"Death Trap!"
"Mimic!"
"<Name>: <Stat> <Up/Down Arrow>"
"Eveyone Recovered!"
"Mass Confusion!"
"Kupi Kupopo!?"
"Unable To Dispel Reflect!"
"Survived!"

I'm heavily considering a couple other small changes.

First, of all I'm thinking about renaming "Analyzer" to "Scan", "Libra", or "Analyze". It's currently called "Detect". "Detect is a direct translation from Katakana but "Detect" feels kind of awkward, especially alongside other final fantasy named spells.

Secondly, I'm considering renaming "Burst" for "Flare". "Burst", like "Detect" is a direct literal translation. However, "Burst" just kind of sticks in my craw for some reason. It just seems kind of awkward to me for some reason. I mean, it's clearly supposed to be a Green Flare spell.

Finally, I'm considering replacing the Burst's Icon with a more accurate green one.

(https://i.imgur.com/BrIrm6i.png)

Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on February 21, 2019, 07:11:55 pm
There's a little of feedback no one is gonna take attention
Why not restore the square legalece to be like closer to the japanese release title screen?
(https://i.imgur.com/whlkcpj.png)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 21, 2019, 07:14:33 pm
anyways a little of feedback no one is gonna take count
Why no restore the square legalece to be like closer to the japanese release?
(https://i.imgur.com/whlkcpj.png)

I thought about it but I feel like it takes away from the art. That's why I dropped it all together.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 21, 2019, 07:49:57 pm
Like all the "Chain" names better, "Morningstar Whip" just sounds bad.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: IcePenguin on February 21, 2019, 08:18:40 pm
-Removed "VWF Edition: Relocalized" subtitle from title screen.

Excellent decision!  :)  Where did you move it to?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 21, 2019, 08:28:11 pm
What makes you think he moved it somewhere else? He said "Removed", not "Relocate".
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 21, 2019, 08:43:37 pm
Like all the "Chain" names better, "Morningstar Whip" just sounds bad.

Unfortunately, we're limited to 16 characters. "Morningstar Chain" doesn't fit. One of the things this localization does is try to make a little more sense of the game's assets.

The "spears" category, originally called "lances", was renamed "polearms" because their was too much overlap with the "javelins" which were originally called "spears". Visually the "spear/lance" weapon looks like a spear but it's icons feature a number of different kinds of spears. The Javelin weapon also features a number of different kinds of spears both in icon and name.

The Whips really shouldn't be an exception. They certainly aren't flails. They have far too much range for that. When you wield them, they crack. I promise you a flail doesn't crack when you wield it. It thuds, clanks, and might make a whooshing sound if you swing it around hard enough. Even a chain whip isn't really whip. It has more in common with a rope dart than it does a whip.

Changing the entire category back to whip was a deliberate choice to make better sense of it's icon and it's not one that I'm likely to change back.

Excellent decision!  :)  Where did you move it to?

I just deleted it. My title was big and clunky and if I'm willing to delete that for the greater good then why should I give a fig about representing Nintendo and Square's respective copyright or licensing claims.  ;)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: IcePenguin on February 21, 2019, 08:55:36 pm
Ah, I see.  Seems like a normal thing to wanna have some sort of mention about the hack, so I figured you must have moved it elsewhere.  For my LA hack, I had some info about the hack on the title screen, but ended up moving it to the file select screen so it doesn't clutter the title screen.

Removed completely works, too!  Adds to the player immersion.  :P
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Rodimus Primal on February 22, 2019, 12:53:41 am
I thought about it but I feel like it takes away from the art. That's why I dropped it all together.

Personally I think it should go back in. Just the Square 1993 bit though. I love the art as much as you do but its just an attention to detail that I always did not like in title screen alterations. That's just my preference.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 22, 2019, 04:10:50 am
Personally I think it should go back in. Just the Square 1993 bit though. I love the art as much as you do but its just an attention to detail that I always did not like in title screen alterations. That's just my preference.

There's a little of feedback no one is gonna take attention
Why not restore the square legalece to be like closer to the japanese release title screen?
(https://i.imgur.com/whlkcpj.png)

Why the Square logo though? Why not "Relocalized" subtitle instead or "Press Any Button".

Aesthetically, all 3 text suggestions do the same thing. They frame the picture by balancing out the title and filling the negative space.

If I'm going to put something in there for the sake of putting something in there, the utilitarian in me is more likely to be put something useful than something nostalgic.

I'll probably just go with "Relocalized" but my mind isn't set in stone about this yet.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: CountBuggula on February 22, 2019, 11:17:07 am
Why the Square logo though? Why not "Relocalized" subtitle instead or "Press Any Button".

Aesthetically, all 3 text suggestions do the same thing. They frame the picture by balancing out the title and filling the negative space.

If I'm going to put something in there for the sake of putting something in there, the utilitarian in me is more likely to be put something useful than something nostalgic.

I'll probably just go with "Relocalized" but my mind isn't set in stone about this yet.

Hmm.  I definitely get what you mean about the aesthetics point of view.  Personally, I'd rather either have the Square logo or nothing at all.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 22, 2019, 01:54:32 pm
As usual, I'm baffled about the things that people are most concerned with. This time it's the title screen. That said, I'm really glad that people are speaking up. I'm currently considering a nice clean "Square 1993" or "Squaresoft 1993" to the beginning and end of the crawl/title screen. The caveat however is that I'll probably hijack the splash screen instead. I see little reason for 3 different Squaresoft logos. The splash screen will look something like this:

Secret of Mana:
Relocalized

I'm heavily considering a couple other small changes.

First, of all I'm thinking about renaming "Analyzer" to "Scan", "Libra", or "Analyze". It's currently called "Detect". "Detect is a direct translation from Katakana but "Detect" feels kind of awkward, especially alongside other final fantasy named spells.

Secondly, I'm considering renaming "Burst" for "Flare". "Burst", like "Detect" is a direct literal translation. However, "Burst" just kind of sticks in my craw for some reason. It just seems kind of awkward to me for some reason. I mean, it's clearly supposed to be a Green Flare spell.

Finally, I'm considering replacing the Burst's icon with a more accurate green one.

(https://i.imgur.com/BrIrm6i.png)

Can we talk about these changes? These ideas are the one's I really want opinions on.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 22, 2019, 02:23:20 pm
You could just add a screen before the title. Add a short credits list for those who have helped you and whose hacks you've adapted and have the Square logo there as well as the Secret of Mana: Relocalized thing and keep "press start" for the title screen. Wouldn't that solve all the woes at once?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: AdamDravian on February 22, 2019, 02:27:30 pm
Secret of Mana:
Relocalized

Can we talk about these changes? These ideas are the one's I really want opinions on.

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I wouldn't change the spells to conform to the FF series, unless they originally did in Japan. I know the Mana series is a pseudo spin-off of the FF series, but I feel that anything that gives it it's own unique identity is a good thing.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 22, 2019, 02:33:53 pm
You could just add a screen before the title. Add a short credits list for those who have helped you and whose hacks you've adapted and have the Square logo there as well as the Secret of Mana: Relocalized thing and keep "press start" for the title screen. Wouldn't that solve all the woes at once?

That's no simple feat. The whale sound Squaresoft logo screen is a splash screen that stalls as the game loads the background image, text crawl, and pink birds.

One does not simply add a new screen.  ;)

As I said though, I can hijack that splash screen and modify it however I like.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on February 22, 2019, 04:27:06 pm
I heavily prefer literal translations for the spell names.

I don't find Detect or Burst to be awkward.
Burst in particular is a good description because it doesn't necessarily imply fire.
Despite a similar graphic, I don't think burst is intended to be a type of flare spell. Honestly, I feel that you might be contextualizing it a bit too much based on the visuals over the lore of it being a wood/plant elemental spell.

Generally speaking I prefer liberal use of literal translation over excessive localization as I'm always concerned with trying to understand the intent of the creators as much as possible.
That said, I understand your project is a relocalization and I like the attempts to make some things more consistent as with the weapon name changes.

Just not so much when it comes to the spells. :P
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 22, 2019, 04:30:43 pm
I heavily prefer literal translations for the spell names.

I don't find Detect or Burst to be awkward.
Burst in particular is a good description because it doesn't necessarily imply fire.
Despite a similar graphic, I don't think burst is intended to be a type of flare spell. Honestly, I feel that you might be contextualizing it a bit too much based on the visuals over the lore of it being a wood/plant elemental spell.

Generally speaking I prefer liberal use of literal translation over excessive localization as I'm always concerned with trying to understand the intent of the creators as much as possible.
That said, I understand your project is a relocalization and I like the attempts to make some things more consistent as with the weapon name changes.

Just not so much when it comes to the spells. :P
Thanks Vanya, I appreciate this kind of feedback. I was worried that this change might be a bit of an overreach. I've just been looking at this project for so long that is hard to keep things objective.

I'll hear a little more feedback and in the morning I'll compile the update and resubmit the changes.

Any thoughts on the changes to the system messages?

February 23, 2019, 09:47:58 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Just a quick comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/AjVG981.png)(https://i.imgur.com/WYa17kT.png)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do people actually think the title screen looks better with the Square Logo in front of the tree?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: mziab on February 23, 2019, 09:57:26 am

February 23, 2019, 09:47:58 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Just a quick comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/AjVG981.png)(https://i.imgur.com/WYa17kT.png)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do people actually think the title screen looks better with the Square Logo in front of the tree?

I think the Square logo makes the composition nicer, more symmetrical. So I guess that's a yes.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 23, 2019, 10:22:43 am
Your not crazy, the right looks way better.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Dellamorte on February 23, 2019, 11:47:39 am
Yeah, I like the Square logo there.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on February 23, 2019, 12:54:46 pm
Thanks Vanya, I appreciate this kind of feedback. I was worried that this change might be a bit of an overreach. I've just been looking at this project for so long that is hard to keep things objective.

I'll hear a little more feedback and in the morning I'll compile the update and resubmit the changes.

Any thoughts on the changes to the system messages?

February 23, 2019, 09:47:58 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Just a quick comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/AjVG981.png)(https://i.imgur.com/WYa17kT.png)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do people actually think the title screen looks better with the Square Logo in front of the tree?
it's more about the aesthetic of the title screen and the square logo makes it better in that point, the removal of the square logo mades the title screen more like it looks like it dosen't have soul, but what i can say it's my point of view
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 23, 2019, 02:10:24 pm
I much prefer the yellow writing but there is already a Square screen with Flammie noises so I don't know if its necessary to have on the title.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Queue on February 23, 2019, 02:30:07 pm
I'm on the same crazy pills I guess. Text is a huge blemish on that, or nearly any image. Pretty much always. Especially bureaucratic text like copyright or trademark text; those should never be present on art except ironically, sarcastically or satirically (etc.).

The bureaucratic space-wasting text gets its day at the start of the text crawl, let the logo be a logo and keep the lawyers away from art (or whatever villain convinces people to damage their art with little TMs, (R)s and (C)s). It's not even necessary from a legal point of view: you don't need to declare copyright for copyright protection and Square Enix has Secret of Mana's trademark registered so a label is also unnecessary for trademark protection (disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, but have looked into this for business reasons before).

Personally, I'd prefer it without the "Secret of Mana" title even, but the image is a blurry mess behind the logo (and you [no one in particular] have no idea what a pain it is to modify the compressed image data).

Edit: Anyway, Timbo, do what you like the look of; people will be able to leave all the legalese on if they want using various options in Turbo's [Title Screen] options section (I'm close to release; one critical bug to go). If you include the full English legalese text block at the very end of the text crawl (or an equivalent amount of padding), but put a text crawl terminator (0000) before the legalese so it never shows, I can do the legwork to allow users to turn it on, replace it with the smaller Japanese one, etc.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: KingMike on February 23, 2019, 03:48:25 pm
Yeah, I like the Square logo there.
I'd add the copyright symbol for correctness.

Leaving them out just gives it a cheap Famicom bootleg feel.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 23, 2019, 05:26:01 pm
I'm on the same crazy pills I guess. Text is a huge blemish on that, or nearly any image. Pretty much always. Especially bureaucratic text like copyright or trademark text; those should never be present on art except ironically, sarcastically or satirically (etc.).

The bureaucratic space-wasting text gets its day at the start of the text crawl, let the logo be a logo and keep the lawyers away from art (or whatever villain convinces people to damage their art with little TMs, (R)s and (C)s). It's not even necessary from a legal point of view: you don't need to declare copyright for copyright protection and Square Enix has Secret of Mana's trademark registered so a label is also unnecessary for trademark protection (disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, but have looked into this for business reasons before).

Personally, I'd prefer it without the "Secret of Mana" title even, but the image is a blurry mess behind the logo (and you [no one in particular] have no idea what a pain it is to modify the compressed image data).

Edit: Anyway, Timbo, do what you like the look of; people will be able to leave all the legalese on if they want using various options in Turbo's [Title Screen] options section (I'm close to release; one critical bug to go). If you include the full English legalese text block at the very end of the text crawl (or an equivalent amount of padding), but put a text crawl terminator (0000) before the legalese so it never shows, I can do the legwork to allow users to turn it on, replace it with the smaller Japanese one, etc.

You're awesome Queue. Let's be crazy together.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: star_scream1646 on February 23, 2019, 06:35:54 pm

Just a quick comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/AjVG981.png)(https://i.imgur.com/WYa17kT.png)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do people actually think the title screen looks better with the Square Logo in front of the tree?


I really like the title logo in white, it has grown on me. I say keep the Square Logo only because now with the white title logo and the Mana tree not as zoomed in on as before it looks a bit more like the SFC cover art.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEXAjJl.png)

Does having the Square logo at the bottom effect the title logo? I noticed your comparisons had the title logo in yellow with the Square logo, but was in white without the logo.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 23, 2019, 07:35:41 pm

I really like the title logo in white, it has grown on me. I say keep the Square Logo only because now with the white title logo and the Mana tree not as zoomed in on as before it looks a bit more like the SFC cover art.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEXAjJl.png)

Does having the Square logo at the bottom effect the title logo? I noticed your comparisons had the title logo in yellow with the Square logo, but was in white without the logo.

The intro hack I use reapplies the yellow pallet even I use it. I just didn't bother changing it back for the comparison.

I intend to use the white title screen for Relocalalized, HDemake, and World of Balance.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: darthvaderx on February 23, 2019, 09:59:01 pm
I intend to use the white title screen for Relocalalized, HDemake, and World of Balance.

I have not read some previous posts, please tell me more about this 'HDemake', yes?

(My suggestion, make your white title screen but give an optional patch to all those as well as I prefer the yellow, OK?)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on February 24, 2019, 01:43:55 am
Thanks Vanya, I appreciate this kind of feedback. I was worried that this change might be a bit of an overreach. I've just been looking at this project for so long that is hard to keep things objective.

I'll hear a little more feedback and in the morning I'll compile the update and resubmit the changes.

Any thoughts on the changes to the system messages?

You're welcome. Sorry I didn't get to this earlier, but...
Love the new system message format.
It makes things more easy to process which is important in the middle of a fight.

Also, I'm in on the crazy pills too. No square logo. Not needed.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 24, 2019, 02:59:38 am
I have not read some previous posts, please tell me more about this 'HDemake', yes?

(My suggestion, make your white title screen but give an optional patch to all those as well as I prefer the yellow, OK?)

It's essentially Relocalized with the HD Version's Script instead of FuSoYa's.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: star_scream1646 on February 27, 2019, 08:35:51 pm
That sounds pretty cool! So will that be a separate project from relocalized? Also off topic, but I wonder if the same could be done for Final Fantasy Adventure? Porting over the Adventures of Mana script over to FFA on Gameboy. Just a thought of course...
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 27, 2019, 08:49:21 pm
That sounds pretty cool! So will that be a separate project from relocalized? Also off topic, but I wonder if the same could be done for Final Fantasy Adventure? Porting over the Adventures of Mana script over to FFA on Gameboy. Just a thought of course...
HDemake and World of Balance are both separate projects that use Relocalized as a base. World of Balance will have a Relocalized version and an HDemake Version.

In other news, I just submitted Relocalized v1.5, so be on the lookout for that in a couple days.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: the_E_y_Es on February 28, 2019, 10:46:45 am
I'd remove both, logo and title. Let the image speak for itself. Too bad that would be problematic like someone else said.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 28, 2019, 11:50:32 am
Regarding the Subtitle. It has been removed. I ultimately decided to remove it, and the illusory frame it creates because I feel that the assymetry created by the unbalanced title draws attention to the trio below and makes the Mana Tree seem bigger and more fantastic.

I did however add the "Square ©1993" to the unopened black title screen at the beginning of the crawl. The beginning of the intro/title screen looked very oblong with the title all the way at the top, the credits in the middle, and nothing at the bottom. It needed something at the bottom to frame the credits. Despite it being legalese, I kept the "©" symbol. It's inclusion balanced the text better horizontally and just looked better.

Note: The title screen image on the download link is currently incorrect. There is no subtitle.

(https://i.imgur.com/U6Ap4xk.png)(https://i.imgur.com/fusCHLA.png)

v1.5 Changes
-Major Overhaul to the entire system message system.
-Changed "Tangled" status to "Slowed"
-Changed "Frostied" status to "Frozen"
-Changed "Ballooned" status to "Stunned"
-Changed "Shrunk" status to "Miniaturized"
-Changed "Engulf" status to "Burning"
-Minor adjustments to weapon and spell descriptions.
-Removed subtitle from title screen.
-Changed "Hit %" to "Accuracy %"
-Changed "Tinkly Barrier" to "Twinkly Barrier"
-Changed "Lycanslayer" to "Beastslayer"
-Changed "Silver Chain" to "Silver Whip"
-Changed "Chain Flail" to "Morningstar Whip"
-Changed "Chain Hammer" to "Hammer Whip"
-Changed "Diamond Chain" to "Diamond Whip"
-Changed "Gigas Chain" to "Gigas Whip"
-Changed "Blue Sorbet" to "Blue Bavarois"
-Changed Turtle Guard to Tortoise Guard
-Changed "Gas Cloud" to "Bluster Gas"
-Changed "Shadow x1" to "Shadow Boy"
-Changed "Shadow x2" to "Shadow Girl"
-Changed "Shadow x3" to "Shadow Sprite"
-Changed "Jabberwocky" to "Jabberwock"
-Changed "Frost Gigas" to "Frost Giant"
-Changed "Fire Gigas" to "Fire Giant"
-Changed "Thunder Gigas" to "Thunder Giant"
-Changed "Frost Gigas" to "Frost Giant"
-Changed "Sleep Flower" to "Sleep"
-Changed "The ultimate chain." to "The ultimate whip."
-Corrected typo "The village is a shambles!"
-Corrected typo "regain it's power"
-Corrected typo "and invitation"
-Changed "Water Palace" to "Water Shrine" at Gaia's Navel Cannon Man.
-Fixed Pamaela's Grandfather's dialogue bug.
-Changed Burst's icon from red to green to match it's graphics.
-Continued to resist the urge to change "Flail of Hope" to "Vampire Killer".


Some of the Status effect changes aren't actually new to this version went unmentioned. Secret of Mana has a number of inconsistently named status affects such as sleep and unconscious or slow and tangled. Weapons and spell descriptions may refer to tangled as slowed (or weight in japanese, thus leaden glare) or sleep as unconscious. All of these identical status have been merged and renamed. "Pygmized" has been renamed "Miniaturized" because "pygmy" is an offensive term.

A few enemies got renamed as well. Since clouds are all made of gases, "Gas Cloud" is redundant, so I updated it to the remake's "Bluster Gas". The Shadow x1, x2, and x3 distinctions have always felt odd and a little 4th wall breaking to me so they were renamed Shadow Boy, Girl, and Sprite respectively. "Jabberwocky" became "Jabberwock" because the creature in Lewis Carol's Jabberwocky is called the Jabberwock. The gigas bosses were rechristened as giants. Gigas is kind of a generic Japanese term for giant. In Greek Mythology Gigas is one of the Gigantes (Giants). To me, these creatures look more Norse than Greek, so I localized the name. Before people start complaining, just be glad I didn't change them to Jotunn. :P

A few weapons got an overhaul as well, I've talked about this before so I won't go deep into detail. All of the whips, are actually whips now. Before people complain please understand that I realize that the Hammer and Morningstar Whips are preposterous but it's still less preposterous than calling a whip a flail, morningstar, or combat chain (chain whip). The "Were-buster" got renamed from "Lycanslayer" to "Beastslayer". Lycan specifically refers to wolves and since the "Were" in this context refers animals, this localization made sense.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on February 28, 2019, 11:58:01 am
Since the wrong patch got uploaded, mind uploading the correct one to dropbox or something similar for those impatient fools who don't want to wait, sometimes the queues can take while.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on February 28, 2019, 12:09:46 pm
Since the wrong patch got uploaded, mind uploading the correct one to dropbox or something similar for those impatient fools who don't want to wait, sometimes the queues can take while.
The right patch got uploaded. Only the site's title screen image was wrong. It has since been corrected.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Zorlac on March 03, 2019, 11:50:36 pm
This looks awesome! Thank you for all your hard work. I am going to try this out. Lately I am fascinated by the idea of playing purist/correctly translated games of my childhood.

Did you ever consider making the title/intro screen literal?

As-in:

"Legendary Holy Sword 2"


Also, would you consider working on Elnard next? Would love someone to re-translate from the original Japanese ROM to retain the original colors, graphics, etc.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Q on March 04, 2019, 07:47:12 am
I did however add the "Square ©1993" to the unopened black title screen at the beginning of the crawl. The beginning of the intro/title screen looked very oblong with the title all the way at the top, the credits in the middle, and nothing at the bottom. It needed something at the bottom to frame the credits. Despite it being legalese, I kept the "©" symbol. It's inclusion balanced the text better horizontally and just looked better.

I like your decision to move the copyright symbol. I think its location on the title screen art was distracting, and this is a good alternate place for it.

-Changed "Frostied" status to "Frozen"

A bit disappointed by this. I like a lot of Ted Woolsey's silly word choices like the "frostied" and "whacked."
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 04, 2019, 09:48:47 am
I like your decision to move the copyright symbol. I think its location on the title screen art was distracting, and this is a good alternate place for it.

A bit disappointed by this. I like a lot of Ted Woolsey's silly word choices like the "frostied" and "whacked."
I'm sorry to hear that. I had a hard time with it as well. I had to remind myself that Woosleyisms are best left to the script. In repeated system messages, it can feel pretty childish. Nostalgia is inherently selfish. I try to remember that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." So with nostaligia, I think it's important to "let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Q on March 04, 2019, 10:42:56 am
I had to remind myself that Woosleyisms are best left to the script. In repeated system messages, it can feel pretty childish.

It's your project, of course, but I'm not sure I'd agree. I think unusual system messages are a lot more memorable and fun than bland ones you see repeated in lots of games. EarthBound has a lot of weird messages that really stick out, like the "SMAAAASH!" when you get a critical hit or the "You got your head handed to you" message when you get a game over.

I actually didn't play Secret of Mana until a few years ago, so it's not really nostalgia that makes me like the "frostied" message. I just thought having a Frosty the Snowman reference in a game where you save Santa was funny.

Edit: Just to be clear, overall this hack looks like a big improvement to the original, and I'm excited to play it in the hopefully not-too-distant future. Just figured I'd offer my two cents. If I find any typos while playing, I'll be sure to let you know.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: AdamDravian on March 04, 2019, 10:51:02 am
I feel like I must be in the minority, in that I was an RPG-obsessed teen in the '90s, so I cut my teeth on Ted Woolsey, who translated several of my favorite games from the era. Yet now when I revisit these games as a nearly forty-year-old adult, I far prefer a more accurate translation.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 06, 2019, 07:00:53 am
I am nearly 42. I cut my teeth on the same games as you, and I also prefer more accurate translations.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on March 06, 2019, 07:17:26 am
What i can say, i Lost the entire Hope to watch a complete retranslation more based on the japanese version long time ago, and isn't like the japanese version is like the better version
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 08, 2019, 06:47:53 pm
I've got a couple big changes coming up for the next update. First and foremost. Relocalized is getting a mixed case name hack courtesy of Regrs.

(http://i.imgur.com/7VsElz1.png)


The other thing is a potential improvement with spell descriptions. One of the things I did with Relocalized was to add more flavor to spell descriptions by elaborating on the original Japanese ones. One of the changes I intended to make for World of Balance was to eschew the flavorful descriptions in favor of statistical ones. However, the system that I came up with is pretty space efficient so I have room for some truncated spell descriptions.

The descriptions are limited to 43 characters and that's before adding in the statistical info. So these descriptions aren't exactly Shakespeare but they are still loosely based on the original descriptions. Let me know what you guys think about the spell changes and the descriptions. Also, note that these descriptions are for World of Balance which incorporates some major gameplay changes besides outside the scope of Relocalized such as new spells or changes within existing spells. These changes are provided only as examples and will not be incorporated into Relocalized.

Spell Descriptions:
Spoiler:

Gnome

Diamond Missile: 2 MP, 40 Power. Slice with sharp diamonds.
Earthquake: 3 MP, 55 Power. Crush with falling rocks.
Slow: 1 MP, Inflicts Slow. Entangle with vines.
Stone Saber: 3 MP, Imbues Weapon with Earth & Petrify.
Quick: 4 MP, Buffs Accuracy, Evasion, & Charging.
Protect: 2 MP, Buffs Defense.

Undine

Ice Smash: 2 MP, 40 Power. Pummel with ice storms.
Acid Storm: 3 MP, 40 Power, Inflicts Poison.
Drain: 3 MP, 40 Power, Steals HP.
Ice Saber: 3 MP, Imbues Weapon with Water & Freeze.
Refresh: 1 MP, Removes Status Effects.
Healing Water: 2 MP, 40 Power, Restores HP.

Salamander

Fireball: 2 MP, 40 Power. Sear with balls of fire.
Explode: 3 MP, 55 Power. Rock with exploding force.
Lava Wave: 3 MP, 40 Power, Debuffs Attack.
Flame Saber: 4 MP, Imbues Weapon with Fire & Burn.
Fiery Cocktail: 2 MP, 40 Power. Envelope in scalding fire.
Blazing Wall: 3 MP, Inflicts Burn. Encircle with flames.

Jinn

Air Blast: 2 MP, 40 Power. Shred with forceful winds.
Thunderbolt: 3 MP, 55 Power. Summon powerful lightning.
Confuse: 2 MP, Inflicts Confuse. Dazzle and dizzy.
Thunder Saber: 3 MP, Imbues Weapon with Wind & Confuse.
Balloon: 2 MP, Inflicts Stun. Exhaust awareness.
Analyze: 1 MP, Reveals information, Disables traps.

Luna

Energy Ball: 3 MP, 40 Power, Debuffs Defense.
Absorb: 1 MP, 40 Power, Steals MP.
Lunacy: 5 MP, Random Effects. Cast curious chaos.
Moon Saber: 4 MP, Imbues Weapon with Moon & Steal HP.
Half Eclipse: 2 MP, 50% HP. Damage. Transmute vitality.
Rush: 4 MP, Buffs Attack & Debuffs Evasion.

Dryad

Sleep Flower: 2 MP, Inflicts Sleep. Lull to slumber.
Burst: 8 MP, 100 Power. Blast with secret energy.
Manaburn: 10 MP, ? Power, Bypasses Reflect.
Revive: 10 MP, Revive allies from Death.
Reflect: 6 MP, Spell reflecting Ward.
Mana Magic: 1 MP, Restores the Mana Sword.

Shade

Evil Gate: 2 MP, 40 Power. Unleash waves of darkness.
Dark Force: 3 MP, 55 Power. Discharge dark energies.
Dispel: 4 MP, Dispels Buffs, Wards & Weapons.

Wisp

Holy Saber: 4 MP, Imbues Weapon with Light & Stun.
Saint Beam: 3 MP, 55 Power. Pierce with sacred light.
Twinkly Barrier: 4 MP, Attack nullifying Ward.

What do you think? Should I replace the existing flavorful descriptions with statistical information and truncated descriptions? If there are no objections over the next few days, I will be incorporating a similar change into the Relocalized so voice your opinion because it matters.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Q on March 08, 2019, 10:46:35 pm
I'm definitely a fan of providing the player with useful statistical info, so I say go for it.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 09, 2019, 05:33:42 am
I dig including spell info in the descriptions, but there is one thing that I find wierd.

Earthquake is the correct translation, but... how is dropping boulders on the enemy an earthquake?
The screen doesn't even shake.
That's one instance where the original localization was probably right to change the name to something more appropriate and descriptive.

I think the original localization called it Rock Slide?
That's not really much better.

Maybe something like 'Rock Crush' would kind of plays off of 'Ice Smash' and maybe make more sense?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 09, 2019, 11:38:00 am
I dig including spell info in the descriptions, but there is one thing that I find wierd.

Earthquake is the correct translation, but... how is dropping boulders on the enemy an earthquake?
The screen doesn't even shake.
That's one instance where the original localization was probably right to change the name to something more appropriate and descriptive.

I think the original localization called it Rock Slide?
That's not really much better.

Maybe something like 'Rock Crush' would kind of plays off of 'Ice Smash' and maybe make more sense?

If I was going to change it, It'd be Earth Crush. I'm not going to because the screen absolutely does shake when you cast the spell. That said, I would like to account for this in the spell description because the focus is definitely on the big ball of earth.

I'm currently considering. "Crush with quaking earth."
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Q on March 09, 2019, 11:58:16 am
Maybe the rock slide is a side effect of the earthquake? I'm not really sure how you could explain that with such truncated descriptions, though.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 09, 2019, 01:43:20 pm
Maybe the rock slide is a side effect of the earthquake? I'm not really sure how you could explain that with such truncated descriptions, though.

From the name and description of the spell in Japanese it seems clear that the effect of the spell is that it sets off an earthquake that causes a rockslide. There's simply not enough room to describe the earthquake causing the rockslide. I'm going to leave it as an implied consequence of the earthquake.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Masaru on March 09, 2019, 02:16:53 pm
For me the hack should be left as it is, more adding ruins the original pont of the hack that is only relocalize the game.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 11, 2019, 02:23:55 pm
For me the hack should be left as it is, more adding ruins the original pont of the hack that is only relocalize the game.
I disagree. I don't believe that the point of the original hack was to exclusively relocalize them. There were several stated goals of the original hack that included things like censorship. Which is why Death Machine and the original Title Screen were included.

Personally, I have no problem adding in minor text related quality of life upgrades for this hack.

With that in mind, I'll be submitting an update in a few days. It will include Regrs fabulous lowercase naming hack, some suggestions from this topic, and some suggestions from PMs as well. "Sleep" for example is going back to "Sleep Flower".

Recently, I've come across the localizations used in more modern Mana series titles and I'm considering updating Relocalized spells this was but I want to get some opinions. In particular, I really like the way "Children of Mana" localized its spells. That said, unless people are really keen for this change, this is a localization that I'm considering saving for WoB.

Spells I'm considering changing:
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 11, 2019, 08:58:13 pm
Nice work adding lower case to naming. That is awesome and always bugged me.

As for your renamed spells and items, I have a few notes/suggestions:
- Royal Jam has also been called Honey Drink in Seiken Densetsu 3 but was revised to Honey Elixer in Sword of Mana.
- Ice Crush might be better as Ice Blast.
- Evil Gate may be better as Shadow Gate. Then it's a nod at an old game and a more versatile name. This also avoids having two spells starting with 'Dark'
- Diamond Missile i've seen this translated as Gem Missile but Seiken Densetsu 3 uses Diamond Shards.
- Air Blast has been changed to Air Slicer in subsequent games.
- Lunacy is a pretty good alternative to Lunatique.
- Strike > Sabre
- Maybe have a mix of both Sylphid spells. Thunderbolt and Lightning Strike.

--

Also, although I do love classic Mana, it might be worth tweaking elemental names for consistency.
Salamando -> Salamander
Sylphid -> Jinn
Lumina -> Wisp

I personally prefer the original names but for consistency, it might be worth considering.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 11, 2019, 09:59:07 pm
Nice work adding lower case to naming. That is awesome and always bugged me.

- Air Blast has been changed to Air Slicer in subsequent games.
 
Salamando -> Salamander
Sylphid -> Jinn
Lumina -> Wisp


The Mana Spirits already named as such. Which games feature Air Slicer?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 12, 2019, 03:27:46 am
"Quake loose a rock."
Does that work?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 12, 2019, 06:57:23 am
The Mana Spirits already named as such. Which games feature Air Slicer?

Legend of Mana/Seiken Densetsu IV I believe.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 13, 2019, 11:06:58 am
"Quake loose a rock."
Does that work?
Okay. I'm going to break this down for you because I have a lot of respect for you as a creator. I'm not doing this to be disrespectful so please forgive me if I sound hurtful. It's not intentional. In fact, I'm grateful for the mental exercise this has been. I can be kind of long winded so check the spoiler tag for this explanation.
Spoiler:
Technically, that sentence works. Can you keep a straight face and tell me that sentence doesn't feel totally forced? My guess is no. Not only is it awkward, it doesn't explain why you're shaking loose a rock. In my truncated sentence, the target of the spell, the enemies, is implied. "Crush under falling rocks." Is essentially "Crush <your enemies> under falling rocks."

Graphically this spell shakes the screen and creates a rumbling sound before dropping a boulder on a target. Even though, the earthquake itself isn't mentioned in the description it's more than implied by both the name and the effect of the spell. If I had more space I would describe it as "Quake the earth and unleash a rockslide to crush your enemies."

Now, to be fair I really tried to make this work and eventually stumbled onto this gem. "Quake <or "Shake"> loose rocks & crush." Unfortunately, there's still some ambiguity there though. Are we shaking some loose rocks or are we shaking rocks loose?  More importantly, the simple truth is neither description is as effective as "Crush with falling rocks." and an implied earthquake.

Now in other news. 1.6 is almost ready to go. We're trying to figure out what is causing the right aligned text in shops to move to the left. Once that's done, I'll release the update.

v1.6 Changelog:
Minaturized was broken down to "Shrank/Shrunk". I had to polish up my native English  language skills for this one. It turns out shrink, shrank, and shrunk are actually pretty damn difficult to conjugate. On the Status Screen it is displayed as Shrunk and in system messages it is displayed as "Shrank".

The Gigas Whip, the last holdout of the Gigas nomenclature, got a little update as well. Check the spoiler flag for an explanation.

Spoiler:
Gigas is an improperly used word for Giant in many Japanese video games. In Greek mythology Gigas is one of the Gigantes. The Gigantes aren't always even gigantic in size. In the last update I renamed the Fire, Frost, and Thunder Gigas' from Gigas to Giant. Earlier updates modified the Gigas Sword to Surtr's Sword, Gigas Lance to the Giants' Lance, and the Gigas axe to the Demon Axe as was appropriate to their translation. This left only the Gigas Whip which I intentionally left intentionally as it is an accurate translation. Only, I forgot to properly punctuate it as a specific person's weapon. Thus, Gigas' Whip.

I've been listening to a lot of the feedback. I'm going to save some more of the radical localization for World of Balance. I reverted Sleep back to Sleep Flower (Where it will stay even in World of Balance.) Though this has brought into question a couple of other localization choices that I've made.

Initially, I shortened "Dispel Magic" to "Dispel" instead of reverting it to the Japanese "Anti-Magic" for a few reasons. First, because Dispel felt more like a verb then Anti-Magic. Second, because the "Magic" part of "Dispel Magic" felt redundant with "spel" being right there in the verb. Finally, because when I first started I wasn't able to restore "Wall" to "Counter Magic" because of space limitations that haven't applied since Mziab first expanded his Script Injector to help out.

"Wall" as mentioned above was changed to "Reflect" because after Mziab adjusted his script injector, I forgot about it. As stated above, it's literal translation is Counter Magic.

I stand by the other literal translations that I've made regarding spells. Click the Spoiler Flag for further explanation.
Spoiler:
"Energy Absorb" is actually スポイト or spuit which is a Dutch word for syringe and a common Japanese misnomer for a Pasteur Pipette (A device found in the spell's icon). It's a tool which is commonly used to draw and transfer liquids. "Drain" is very much an acceptable localization for it.

I relocalized "Change Form" to "Transform" because it's better. In Japanese, the spell is called "Body Change" and "Transform" is still better.

"Silence" was changed to "Confuse" because of the main effect of the spell. This was also relocalized in the English remake.

"Speed Down" was changed to "Slow". This was done because I changed "Speed Up" to it's literal translates "Quick". I felt that "Slow" and "Quick" were cleaner and less awkward than "Speed Up" and "Slow Down".

I think all of the other spells are either changes back to the literal translation or grammatical changes.

I'm sorry about the delay to what should hopefully be the final update to Relocalized. On the bright side, it is kind of blessing in disguise because it allows me to get some feedback on "Dispel" and "Reflect" aka "Anti-Magic" and "Counter Magic". What do you think, should these spells be delocalized back to literal or kept in their current relocalized forms?

Finally, while I'm thinking about this. For the Japanese fluent. Would Temple be a better translation for 神殿 than Shrine?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 13, 2019, 03:26:00 pm
Another note, you may not need to call a whip upgrade the morningstar whip/chain. Morningstar alone indicates a flail and has long been a common name for a powerful flail. Just something to consider. I can cite examples if you like  :)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 13, 2019, 05:13:49 pm
Another note, you may not need to call a whip upgrade the morningstar whip/chain. Morningstar alone indicates a flail and has long been a common name for a powerful flail. Just something to consider. I can cite examples if you like  :)

That's not necessary because a flail is not a whip. They completely different weapons.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 14, 2019, 03:40:28 am
Okay. I'm going to break this down for you because I have a lot of respect for you as a creator. I'm not doing this to be disrespectful so please forgive me if I sound hurtful. It's not intentional. In fact, I'm grateful for the mental exercise this has been. I can be kind of long winded so check the spoiler tag for this explanation.
Spoiler:
Technically, that sentence works. Can you keep a straight face and tell me that sentence doesn't feel totally forced? My guess is no. Not only is it awkward, it doesn't explain why you're shaking loose a rock. In my truncated sentence, the target of the spell, the enemies, is implied. "Crush under falling rocks." Is essentially "Crush <your enemies> under falling rocks."

Graphically this spell shakes the screen and creates a rumbling sound before dropping a boulder on a target. Even though, the earthquake itself isn't mentioned in the description it's more than implied by both the name and the effect of the spell. If I had more space I would describe it as "Quake the earth and unleash a rockslide to crush your enemies."

Now, to be fair I really tried to make this work and eventually stumbled onto this gem. "Quake <or "Shake"> loose rocks & crush." Unfortunately, there's still some ambiguity there though. Are we shaking some loose rocks or are we shaking rocks loose?  More importantly, the simple truth is neither description is as effective as "Crush with falling rocks." and an implied earthquake.

Fair enough. I appreciate your candor.

A second suggestion I was going to make, but decided not to was to just drop the descriptions entirely and let the spell effects and names speak for themselves. You have to admit that some of them are kind of wierd and awkward in their own right. Earthquake shakes the screen and then a boulder practically leaps up out of the ground and lands on the target. That's not how earthquakes work in general.
You can give leeway for it being magic, but there is very little space left to describe such an odd occurrence.
Personally, I would consider just dropping them altogether in favor of listing any elemental/status effects and call it a day. But that's just me.

Dispel and Reflect sound great to me.
(I would have gone with Entangle over Slow, but that's neither here nor there.)

I tend to like spell names that do a good job of describing the spell effect by itself.
That's why I dislike Earthquake in this case. The earthquake is just the prelude to the ground spitting up a rock. I don't see it as worth mentioning, really.
What's more it gives me a bit of cognitive dissonance since most spells named earthquake usually do direct damage and cannot hit floating or flying targets. However, this spell can hit those types of targets.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Dispel, Reflect, and Slow are merited changes, then changing Earthquake may be just as meritorious. Rock Crush would eliminate that dissonance, it actually describes what is happening enough by itself, and may even eliminate the problem of the truncated description.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 16, 2019, 12:46:16 am
The price window bug has been located and squashed. I'll be compiling the changes and uploading it to the Queue tonight. Unless more typos are found in the script. This is probably the final update for Relocalized.

v1.6 Changes
-Fixed the Price Window Bug.
-Mixed case character naming now possible.
-Removed the last remaining reference to Popoi's gender in the script.
-Spell descriptions have been updated to allow for room for statistical data.
-Minor casing changes.
-Reverted back to old punctuated message system (due to demand).
-Miniaturized was to long. It's system message was changed to "Shrank!"
-Miniaturized's status was changed to "Shrunk".
-Unconscious was too long. It's system message was changed to "Asleep!"
-Unconscious' status message was changed to "Asleep"
-Burning's system message was localized to "Ablaze!"
-Burning's status was localized to "Ablaze".
-Gigas whip was corrected to Gigas' Whip.
-Diamond Missile was localized to Diamond Shards.
-Freeze was modernized to Ice Smash.
-Detect was localized to Analyze for comprehensiveness.
-Sleep was reverted back to Sleep Flower because the change was unnecessary.
-Dispel was reverted back to Dispel Magic because the change was unnecessary.
-Royal Jelly was modernized to Honey Brew.

I went a little wild with some of the changes that I made with version 1.5. I have corrected course with version 1.6. This time I vetted a lot of my against both public and private feedback and I made sure that both new and old changes were justified. I have modernized a few spell names this time around. These changes are consistent throughout the Japanese series. There are a few changes I will discuss below. All of the other changes were grammatical in nature.

Spell Names:
Spoiler:
"Diamond Shards" was chosen over "Diamond Missile" because when most people hear the word missile, they think of a guided rocket propelled explosive. D&D players are the exception here because of Magic Missile.

"Slow" was localized from "Speed Down". It "Slow" is more concise.

"Drain" was chosen over "Spuit" because not only is "Spuit" an inaccurate translation from Japanese the proper words "Pasteur Pipette" or "Eyedropper" is pretty 4th wall breaking or totally awkward and weird in context. So, despite the of the dropper on the I localized it to "Drain" because it was better than "Draw up".

"Analyze" "Detect", while being technically adequate, is not the best word for what is going on with the spell. "Analyzer" was a better localization from the start. I just dropped the "er" for consistency with the other spells. Consider this a reversion.

"Reflect" Is "Counter Magic" a better name for this spell? Maybe, but I didn't really have to think about it because there was no good way to include it in "Dispel Magic's" overstuffed spell description. "Reflect" was chosen for it's short length.

"Twinkly Barrier" I've already talked about this. Tinkly has a very juvenile connotation in English and needs to be localized. "Twinkly Barrier" is more accurate and more comprehensive than "Lucid Barrier" as the former refers to light and the latter refers to sound.

"Earthquake" Vanya, I like you but I'm not budging on this one. This spell is consistently called "Earthquake" in every other entry in the Mana series. It is not a misnomer. I don't believe that the graphics are different enough to justify changing the name of the spell.

"Ablaze", though not a spell, got a last minute localization. While reworking the system messages, someone suggested this gem. Apparently, the HD Remake actually uses this for it's status effect notification and to be honest it works a whole lot better than "Burning" and is far more comprehensive than "Engulfed".

Spell Descriptions:
Spoiler:
Gnome
Earthquake     : 3 MP, 61 Pwr, Bury foes under rockslides
Diamond Shards : 2 MP, 43 Pwr, Shred foes with sharp gems
Slow           : 1 MP, SLOW foes with entangling vines
Stone Saber    : 4 MP, Imbue Weapons with EARTH & PETRIFY
Quick          : 3 MP, Buff ACCURACY & EVASION
Protect        : 2 MP, Buff DEFENSE, Safeguard allies

Undine
Ice Smash      : 2 MP, 61 Pwr, Pummel foes with Ice storms
Acid Storm     : 3 MP, 43 Pwr, Debuffs DEFENSE, Weaken foes
Drain          : 2 MP, 43 Pwr, STEAL HP, Syphon foes' life
Ice Saber      : 2 MP, Imbue Weapons with WATER & FREEZE
Refresh        : 1 MP, Recover allies from Status Effects
Healing Water  : 2 MP, 61 Pwr, Restore HP, Heal Allies

Salamander
Fireball       : 2 MP, 52 Pwr, Roast foes with fireballs
Explode        : 3 MP, 61 Pwr, Rock foes with explosions
Lava Wave      : 3 MP, 43 Pwr, Immolate foes in fiery magma
Flame Saber    : 2 MP, Imbue Weapons with FIRE & ABLAZE
Fiery Cocktail : 3 MP, 43 Pwr, Debuff ATTACK, Scald foes
Blazing Wall   : 3 MP, 32 Pwr, Engulf foes in BLAZING fire

Jinn
Air Blast      : 2 MP, 43 Pwr, Shred foes with strong winds
Thunderbolt    : 4 MP, 61 Pwr, Strike foes with lightning
Confuse        : 2 MP, CONFUSE foes with disorienting magic
Thunder Saber  : 3 MP, Imbue Weapons with WIND
Thunder Saber  : 3 MP, Imbue Weapons with WIND & CONFUSE
Balloon        : 2 MP, STUN foes with devitalizing magic
Analyze        : 1 MP, Reveal Information & Disable traps

Luna
Transform      : 5 MP, TRANSFORM foes into weaker ones
Absorb         : 1 MP, 43 Pwr, STEAL MP, Syphon foes' mana
Lunacy         : 8 MP, Conjure Chaos upon friends and foes
Moon Saber     : 3 MP, Imbue Weapons with MOON & STEAL HP
Rush           : 2 MP, Buff ATTACK, Debuff EVASION
Energy Ball    : 2 MP, Buffs CRITICAL HIT Rate to 100%

Dryad
Sleep Flower   : 2 MP, Lull foes into deep peaceful SLEEP
Burst          : 4 MP, 100 Pwr, Blast foes with inner power
Mana Magic     : 1 MP, Temporarily restore the Mana Sword
Revive         : 10 MP, Recover allies from DEATH's grasp
Reflect        : 6 MP, Protect allies by redirecting magic
Mana Magic     : 1 MP, Temporarily Restore the Mana Sword

Shade
Evil Gate      : 8 MP, 50% DMG, Unleash darkness upon foes
Dark Force     : 2 MP, 61 Pwr, Ignite foes with dark energy
Dispel Magic   : 4 MP, Dispel Buffs, Weapons, & Reflect

Wisp
Holy Saber     : 5 MP, Imbue Weapons with LIGHT
Saint Beam     : 8 MP, 61 Pwr, Smite foes with sacred light
Twinkly Barrier: 4 MP, Protect allies by nullifying attacks

I worked really hard over the last few days to get these spell descriptions as close to literal as they are within the 43 character threshold. I'm pretty proud of this effort.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 16, 2019, 02:51:17 am
"Earthquake" Vanya, I like you but I'm not budging on this one.

Lol. You made me chuckle. :)
Great work on everything. I'm quite anxious to get to playing this.
Even if I might just tweak a few names to my own preferences. ;D
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 16, 2019, 02:55:46 am
Lol. You made me chuckle. :)
Great work on everything. I'm quite anxious to get to playing this.
Even if I might just tweak a few names to my own preferences. ;D

Our text injector uses DTE tiles. Hit me up if you need the table file.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 16, 2019, 03:02:20 am
Thanks! I will definitely take you up on that! :)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 16, 2019, 03:12:36 am
Thanks! I will definitely take you up on that! :)

https://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Secret_of_Mana:TBL

Copy this to text file and change its extension to .tbl. I use Windhex for manual edits. I can't promise you'll there will be enough space for everything you want to change.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 16, 2019, 06:18:46 am
Kethinov just uploaded a few new hack and I think the most notable was this one. I dunno about having Watts in the Mana Fortress after you're changes to where orbs are obtainable but Neko (with additional frames) might be a nice convenience save point/store to consider adding to a future version.

Love the spell changes too! Ablaze works a lot better.

I wonder if Secret of Evermore is coded similarly to Secret of Mana..
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Midna on March 16, 2019, 07:30:56 am
I wonder if Secret of Evermore is coded similarly to Secret of Mana..

I remember hearing that although the gameplay of Evermore is handled similarly, it's almost 100% different from Secret of Mana under the hood.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Vanya on March 16, 2019, 08:21:04 am
LOL. I remember the rumors back in the day that they made Evermore using SoM as an engine.
Apparently, they did straight up copy a lot of concepts from SoM but implemented everything from scratch.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 18, 2019, 10:07:05 am
v1.6 is Official!

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/ (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4324/)

v1.6 Changelog

-Mixed case character naming now possible.
-Removed the last remaining reference to Popoi's gender in the script.
-Spell descriptions have been updated to allow for room for statistical data.
-Minor casing changes.
-Reverted back to old punctuated message system.
-Miniaturized was too long. It's system message was changed to "Shrank!"
-Miniaturized's status was changed to "Shrunk".
-Unconscious was too long. It's system message was changed to "Asleep!"
-Unconscious' status message was changed to "Asleep"
-Burning's system message was localized to "Ablaze!"
-Burning's status was localized to "Ablaze".
-Gigas whip was corrected to Gigas' Whip.
-Diamond Missile was localized to Diamond Shards.
-Freeze was localized to Ice Smash to match later entries in the series.
-Detect was localized to Analyze for comprehensiveness.
-Sleep was reverted back to Sleep Flower because the change was unnecessary.
-Dispel was reverted back to Dispel Magic because the change was unnecessary.

Also, I should note that I intend for this to be the final major release of this hack. I will release a corrective updates every few months for any typos that get reported. I have submitted v1.6 to Queue. He should have that added to Secret of Mana: Turbo soon. Thanks to everyone who helped me make this thing and everyone who provided the much needed criticism and feedback needed to get it right.

From here on out, I intend to focus my efforts on Secret of Mana: World of Balance. You can follow and discuss that hack here: https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28059.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=28059.0)
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on March 18, 2019, 11:09:07 am
1.6 is glitched, this is what I get after starting a new game and getting past he naming screen.

https://i.imgur.com/a3p9LB4.jpg

to this...

https://i.imgur.com/gomUVkY.jpg
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 18, 2019, 11:19:38 am
1.6 is glitched, this is what I get after starting a new game and getting past he naming screen.

https://i.imgur.com/a3p9LB4.jpg

to this...

https://i.imgur.com/gomUVkY.jpg
Are you sure you applied it to a clean ROM? I just downloaded a copy of the hack from RHDN and it seems to be working fine. My heart, on the other hand, is beating like a racehorse's.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on March 18, 2019, 11:33:05 am
Yes, Secret of Mana (USA) with CRC32 D0176B24, that is with no header. I even tried patching a FuSoYa’s pre-patched rom after removing the header for it because that was the old instructions.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 18, 2019, 11:38:23 am
Yes, Secret of Mana (USA) with CRC32 D0176B24, that is with no header. I even tried patching a FuSoYa’s pre-patched rom after removing the header for it because that was the old instructions.

I don't know what to tell you. It seems to be working for me. Is anyone else having this problem?
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on March 18, 2019, 11:42:29 am
Don't know what to tell you either, v1.5 works fine.

https://i.imgur.com/A7Q38t3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lhVtgqp.jpg

Guess we'll wait for others to chime in.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Chronosplit on March 18, 2019, 11:46:17 am
Nice to finally see proper casing for naming yourself.  That's the one thing I had left on my list of stuff SoM needed.

Patching the new version alone seems to work fine here.  I ran it through the intro with no issues.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on March 18, 2019, 11:48:28 am
What emulator? I'm using Snes9x 1.59.2 which is the latest.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Chronosplit on March 18, 2019, 11:51:52 am
What emulator? I'm using Snes9x 1.59.2 which is the latest.
SNES9x, looks like RA is still in 1.58, as I pulled that from the online updater this morning.  Maybe it's an emulator issue?

BSNES-Mercury also checks out, just did a look in Performance.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Q on March 18, 2019, 01:13:19 pm
I just tried starting a new game to see if I could reproduce the error. If I named my character "Andrew", I had no problems—but if I left the name blank and just pushed Start, the screen went black and the game froze.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Special on March 18, 2019, 01:19:57 pm
Ahh, that's it! I left the name blank since I was just testing it quickly, I tried again by giving the hero "ABC" as his name, and the intro worked, still a bug though.

It seems previous versions don't even let you leave the name screen if the name is blank, but v1.6 lets you press start to get past it.
Title: Re: Secret of Mana: Relocalized
Post by: Timbo on March 18, 2019, 02:01:55 pm
I just tried starting a new game to see if I could reproduce the error. If I named my character "Andrew", I had no problems—but if I left the name blank and just pushed Start, the screen went black and the game froze.
It did not occur to me to try and not name a character.