I'm sure a lot of us have heard the hooplah over this thing. Not because of the Classic's potential this time around though, it's because it's been found to be running PCSX ReARMed. (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/11/sony-using-open-source-emulator-for-playstation-classic-plug-and-play/) This is kind of a strange move to me, I mean it's a pretty solid one for it's purpose when it comes to things like RetroPie, but Sony has had better than ReARMed around from as far back as the PS2 era (though Bettle/Mednafen is reportedly better than Sony's at this point). Maybe none of their emulation methods run on the cheaper specs they're using? :o
That explains why Legend of Dragoon didn't make it in as a filler title, I guess? I know ReARMed has some minor visual bugs with LoD.
OMG! IT'S GOT TOM CLANSEY'S RAINBOW SIX!!
That needs to become a meme for what a random-ass choice it was for inclusion on a "Classic" console.
Let me just go over to GameFAQs and blind pick a game to complain about not being on the SNES Classic. Just going to blind
pick a random letter... going to hover my mouse around blind and stop and...
DAMN NINTENDO how you could leave Miracle Girls off the SNES CLASSIC! :banghead: :banghead: NEVER BUYING ANYTHING OF YOURS AGAIN!
Quote from: Chronosplit on November 11, 2018, 11:34:28 PM
I'm sure a lot of us have heard the hooplah over this thing. Not because of the Classic's potential this time around though, it's because it's been found to be running PCSX ReARMed. (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/11/sony-using-open-source-emulator-for-playstation-classic-plug-and-play/) This is kind of a strange move to me
I don't see anything new or strange about this. The Wii's virtual console, and NES and SNES classic just uses emulators and ROMs too. That's no secret. I don't see why anyone would buy those, but apparently it works commercially. Go figure.
Quote from: KingMike on November 12, 2018, 01:07:30 AM
OMG! IT'S GOT TOM CLANSEY'S RAINBOW SIX!!
That needs to become a meme for what a random-ass choice it was for inclusion on a "Classic" console.
Let me just go over to GameFAQs and blind pick a game to complain about not being on the SNES Classic. Just going to blind
pick a random letter... going to hover my mouse around blind and stop and...
DAMN NINTENDO how you could leave Miracle Girls off the SNES CLASSIC! :banghead: :banghead: NEVER BUYING ANYTHING OF YOURS AGAIN!
Clearly the issue, it doesn't include games that made the PlayStation 1 "classic", but games that made their brand trough PSX fame.
For me, there is no way to think about the system without Wipeout, some random Winning Eleven version, Alundra and so on... But they got Rayman like Jaguar huh? And Grand Theft Auto huh? :D
Now if you look at the japanese listing that makes a lot more of sense, not the best but affordable.
The device is intriguing only because it comes with the authentic PSOne controllers. But there's really no point I can see to buying it unless it's easily hackable. Or unless it's really, really cheap.
Quote from: Bregalad on November 12, 2018, 05:07:02 AMI don't see anything new or strange about this. The Wii's virtual console, and NES and SNES classic just uses emulators and ROMs too. That's no secret.
What's strange is that they're using commonly-available open source software rather than developing something in-house. But then, you could just as well ask why Nintendo felt like re-inventing the wheel. And then the obvious answer is that Nintendo has never been particularly pro-emulation and would be concerned about what that move might do for their image. But then the other question is, didn't Sony already have a decent PSOne emulator for the PSP?
Quote from: Jorpho on November 12, 2018, 01:27:37 PM
What's strange is that they're using commonly-available open source software rather than developing something in-house. But then, you could just as well ask why Nintendo felt like re-inventing the wheel.
Well, what tells you that Nintendo re-invented the wheel ? Maybe they didn't; nobody prove they just take a particular emulator but that doesn't mean they didn't. Also, there is hundred of reasons for "re-inventing wheels", particularly when it comes to software development, but I won't go into details.
Quote from: Bregalad on November 12, 2018, 01:59:34 PM
Well, what tells you that Nintendo re-invented the wheel ? Maybe they didn't; nobody prove they just take a particular emulator but that doesn't mean they didn't.
Wouldn't it be obvious if they were re-using someone else's publicly-available emulator? That is, wouldn't it obviously have the same recognizable flaws? One of the bazillion people poring over these things would surely have picked up on that by now if that was the case – even if it was something less obvious, like old Virtual Console code, or the Super Punch-Out "SNESticle" (https://twitter.com/luigiblood/status/909117019655720960).
QuoteAlso, there is hundred of reasons for "re-inventing wheels", particularly when it comes to software development, but I won't go into details.
Whatever reasons there may be, in the end, doesn't that tend to be tremendously expensive?
Quote from: Bregalad on November 12, 2018, 01:59:34 PM
Well, what tells you that Nintendo re-invented the wheel ? Maybe they didn't; nobody prove they just take a particular emulator but that doesn't mean they didn't. Also, there is hundred of reasons for "re-inventing wheels", particularly when it comes to software development, but I won't go into details.
I do recall reading... I think it was Retro that wanted to include Super Metroid as an unlockable in Prime by using a SNES9x port but Nintendo told them no. I can't remember if that was the exact example but it was something like that.
Quote from: Jorpho on November 12, 2018, 01:27:37 PM
But then the other question is, didn't Sony already have a decent PSOne emulator for the PSP?
Yes, but that's probably tailored towards the hardware including the MIPS architecture. The Classic probably uses an ARM CPU, and I guess they think PCSX-ReARMed is developed enough for their purpose.
Japan gets Arc the Lad Collection and Parasite Eve. We get Rainbow 6 and fucking Destruction Derby. I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese got a DualShock for this while we get screwed over.
The only reason I'd get this is if it can be hacked like the NES and SNES Classic, and put more (or remove) games on it. I'd like to run some PS1 hacks on kinda "real official hardware" from Sony. Because burning PSX discs requires a low speed 4x writer which is damn near impossible to pull off with modern burners. I've gotten PSX hacks to work on real hardware, but it was a total hassle. This would be a nice alternative if it could be hacked.
Quote from: NERV Agent on November 15, 2018, 01:32:13 AM
Parasite Eve.
Now that's interesting! ReARMed has a fix to make PE work (also the Vandal Hearts games), but it's a separated option in the emulator due to it also screwing up other games.
Either the games are set up similar to Canoe where every single one has different settings for the emu or the fix is always on. The latter would hinder hacking the console to work with more games, unless Sony got it to work without screwing up other games of course. I also remember hearing reports of MGS having slowdown in the emulator, but that was RetroPie's compatibility reporting so I wouldn't know if they fixed it for that game or not either.
Quote from: NERV Agent on November 15, 2018, 01:32:13 AMBecause burning PSX discs requires a low speed 4x writer which is damn near impossible to pull off with modern burners.
I don't know where people keep getting this. I've burned about 300-400 PS1 games over the past 2 years on varying quality of discs at various speeds using a variety of PSX models (including a PSOne) and the only trouble I ever got was when trying to play them on consoles that still had the original optical drives. In those cases they even had trouble with legit discs (as I keep one legit disc for the disc swapping trick on a PS2 slim).
Really, what would one expect from such a drive that's 20+ years old? A brand new replacement with assembly and all only costs about $20-30 and takes no real knowledge or skills to replace (just make sure you order one that doesn't have to be de-soldered).
I'd probably recommend a PS2, fat or slim over an original PSX for most people. I used to play my PS1 games on a PS2 but decided to downgrade a PS1 for the sake of nostalgia and because it just made it that much harder to pick something to play (so many games in both libraries).
QuoteJapan gets Arc the Lad Collection and Parasite Eve. We get Rainbow 6 and fucking Destruction Derby.
Yeah, the US selection is a joke. Apart from maybe 5 of those games the list looks about as appealing as the cheap p&p Genesis my friend has with a bunch of games that look like pirates (got Comix Zone though). I just don't understand their choices here. DD over DD2? Persona 1 over Persona 2? WTF?
EDIT: Well, maybe more than 5. The selection looks like half killer/half filler.
Quote from: SunGodPortal on November 17, 2018, 06:21:41 PM
I don't know where people keep getting this. I've burned about 300-400 PS1 games over the past 2 years on varying quality of discs at various speeds using a variety of PSX models (including a PSOne) and the only trouble I ever got was when trying to play them on consoles that still had the original optical drives. In those cases they even had trouble with legit discs (as I keep one legit disc for the disc swapping trick on a PS2 slim).
Really, what would one expect from such a drive that's 20+ years old? A brand new replacement with assembly and all only costs about $20-30 and takes no real knowledge or skills to replace (just make sure you order one that doesn't have to be de-soldered).
I'd probably recommend a PS2, fat or slim over an original PSX for most people. I used to play my PS1 games on a PS2 but decided to downgrade a PS1 for the sake of nostalgia and because it just made it that much harder to pick something to play (so many games in both libraries).
https://www.ngemu.com/threads/how-to-make-a-perfect-backup-of-psx-games.34515/
QuoteWrite Settings
Write Speed: 4x (yes, 4x)
Weak Sectors: Ignore
Don't Repair Subchannel Data: Checked
Always close last session: Checked
One time I did get lucky and managed to get a PSX game burned on 16x (IIRC, it's been a long time) and got it to run on my PS2 with a modchip. It took forever and ever to get to load to the title screen because I didn't burn it at the right speed, but I was able to play normally after that.
And with regards to the crap selection for the PSX Classic, I'm surprised they didn't put in Bubsy 3D while they were at it.
Now that it is official that an N64 Classic isn't coming out, I wish Sega would take their sweet revenge and release a Sega Saturn Classic with all the good games.
I've yet to see any confirmation that a disc burned at a lower speed is demonstrably different from a disc burned at a higher speed. (Presumably some discs are actually incapable of being burned at a higher speed, but that's a different matter.)
Quote from: NERV Agent on November 18, 2018, 12:05:54 AMI wish Sega would take their sweet revenge and release a Sega Saturn Classic with all the good games.
All their efforts with the Genesis so far have been less than inspiring.
Perhaps the Saturn Classic will come with an ultra-deluxe 32-bit version of Yawning Triceratops.
I've burned PS1 discs at 8x to 16x without problems. Lots of things can affect how well burns work:
- drive of the console
- burner
- discs used
Quote from: Starscream on November 18, 2018, 06:04:58 PMI've burned PS1 discs at 8x to 16x without problems. Lots of things can affect how well burns work:
- drive of the console
- burner
- discs used
*drive of the console*
This one has been the most important, for me. Even a legit PSX disc in mint condition won't play right on a worn out op drive, which most of them probably are at this point. Especially the earlier more problematic models: shitty plastic parts that warp from the heat of the console.
*burner*
I use IMGBurn and have burned on a few different comps. Never suspected any problems on this end, but that's just my personal experience. Everyone's comp is a little different and we don't all use the same programs. None of my computers even support 4x mode. The slowest I can burn them is 16x and have probably gone much higher since I've had that set to "auto" before.
*discs used*
I've used good Verbatims, TY and the last bunch I used were cheap ones from the Dollar General. No issues here except for the occasional bad disc. I got more of those when using the more expensive discs, but then again I bought those in bulk so the chances of rejects were higher simply because the quantity of discs was higher. The more expensive discs certainly look better though.
My current setup is a SCPH-90001 with a replacement drive and a GameShark that's been overwritten with UniROM. I probably wouldn't reccomend it though. It's probably easier to just make the very minor mods that a PS2 slim requires and the trick using the explorer menu and the cheapest legit PSX disc you can find. Plus I see there are now HDMI convertors for the PS2 so that's a bonus (for other people). I just play my PSX with a CRT via s-video.
Quote from: Jorpho on November 18, 2018, 04:29:27 PM
All their efforts with the Genesis so far have been less than inspiring.
Perhaps the Saturn Classic will come with an ultra-deluxe 32-bit version of Yawning Triceratops.
They've dropped AT Games with regards to making any more classic licensed consoles, so that's a push in the right direction.
If they include Panzer Dragoon Saga and Radiant Silvergun, I'm sure some classic Sega fans would lose their shit.
EDIT:
444th post!
It's overpriced IMHO and it has no thumb sticks. I can't see how it's very good.
And for some reason, 45% of the games will be PAL versions even on the American version because... Don't Know. :P
Quote from: KingMike on November 27, 2018, 12:22:52 AM
And for some reason, 45% of the games will be PAL versions even on the American version because... Don't Know. :P
That is weird. There has to be a reason for that because no one would just use 50hz for all the world in a professional product. Last I checked, ReARMed also has some PAL specific issues such as copy protection. This is really doing things the hard way.
This entire release reeks of Sony basically cashing in on the PSX's image and reputation, and banking on the masses of uneducated casual gamers they created not knowing enough about console/emulation quality to care that they basically threw this together like Frankenstein's Monster and catapulted it out the door.
Nintendo showed a lot more care on their Classic Mini releases. Sony just don't got time for none of that.
Quote from: Spooniest on November 27, 2018, 02:37:32 PM
This entire release reeks of Sony basically cashing in on the PSX's image and reputation, and banking on the masses of uneducated casual gamers they created not knowing enough about console/emulation quality to care that they basically threw this together like Frankenstein's Monster and catapulted it out the door.
Nintendo showed a lot more care on their Classic Mini releases. Sony just don't got time for none of that.
Well, I don't know. The SNES classic was chock full of greats. The NES classic had many iffy titles, which is a shame, because NES is my favorite Nintendo console. They had an opportunity to put games like Earthbound Beginnings on it, but they didn't. They could have done something really cool with some games. The Nintendo classics also have that strange control port, so you can't plug in a usb controller.
Quote from: Spooniest on November 27, 2018, 02:37:32 PM
This entire release reeks of Sony basically cashing in on the PSX's image and reputation, and banking on the masses of uneducated casual gamers they created not knowing enough about console/emulation quality to care that they basically threw this together like Frankenstein's Monster and catapulted it out the door.
Is anyone saying anything about the emulation quality, aside from this PAL issue? I doubt there would be many complaints at all if it simply didn't have such a questionable selection of games.
But let's face it: even if there was a decent selection of games, 95% of these units would spend 95% of their time sitting around collecting dust.
Quote from: POWCo-op on November 27, 2018, 10:29:37 PM
Well, I don't know. The SNES classic was chock full of greats. The NES classic had many iffy titles, which is a shame, because NES is my favorite Nintendo console. They had an opportunity to put games like Earthbound Beginnings on it, but they didn't. They could have done something really cool with some games. The Nintendo classics also have that strange control port, so you can't plug in a usb controller.
And even the SNES Classic could considered iffy due to lack of Chrono Trigger.
I think SNES Classic is a pretty decent selection of games.
I think it's just that so many people get angry because THEIR one favorite game didn't get picked.
Quote from: Jorpho on November 28, 2018, 12:29:20 AM
Is anyone saying anything about the emulation quality, aside from this PAL issue? I doubt there would be many complaints at all if it simply didn't have such a questionable selection of games.
Eurogamer mentioned that NTSC is also affected:
"Remarkably, even the NTSC games have issues. You can see that with the performance snapshot of R4 Ridge Racer Type 4 embedded below. Original hardware runs this title locked at 30fps with perfect frame-pacing - a new frame is delivered every two screen refreshes without fail. Running under emulation on the PlayStation Classic, not only are frames delivered with 'blips' adding some stutter, but there also appear to be performance dips too - which do not occur in the game running on original hardware. So even if Sony had delivered a full NTSC line-up, we'd still have problems with this product falling short of the quality delivered by the actual PlayStation"
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-playstation-classic-emulation-first-look
I see. So is this a problem of underpowered hardware, a bug in PCSX Rearmed, or simply a setting somewhere that someone forgot to toggle?
Quote from: Jorpho on November 28, 2018, 09:08:39 AMunderpowered hardware
It has to be this. I think I used to play some PAL versions of PS2 games when my computer at the time could only reach ~50 FPS in them...
EDIT: Whoops, already posted.
Quote from: KingMike on November 28, 2018, 01:07:30 AM
I think it's just that so many people get angry because THEIR one favorite game didn't get picked.
Yeah, that's the impression I get, too.
But what's up with Sony giving Japan Parasite Eve (which sold well in the US), but then giving us fucking Destruction Derby, and an FPS game with no dual analog controls?
This, coupled with the separate issue of Sony recently censoring US versions of games because SJW politics, I'm convinced this company hates their US fan base.
I use to fancy my self a Sony fan, but fuck this. I'm boycotting Sony.
Oh, btw, you can a free PSX Classic right now! It's called RetroArch!
Quote from: NERV Agent on November 29, 2018, 04:13:35 AMBut what's up with Sony giving Japan Parasite Eve (which sold well in the US), but then giving us fucking Destruction Derby, and an FPS game with no dual analog controls?
I know everyone here is a JRPG nerd, but I personally like Destruction Derby a LOT more than Parasite Eve (PE2 is a little more playable, at least). In fact, right now I can't think of any game that it's so bad that I'd prefer to just tap a single button millions of times while waiting for animations and loading screens to end every time I take a single step anywhere.
In any case, when you make a list there always will be morons complaining about why you don't share their tastes. I can think of dozens or hundreds of PSX games that I prefer before those listed by Sony, but I can understand that other people might like different things, so I consider a complete waste of time/energy/intelligence to complain about their picks (nor would I ever buy a shitty computer locked to a single subpar open-source emulator with only 20 games picked by other people).
https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/465753-report-playstation-classic-has-36-hidden-games-sony-hasnt-enabled
So...how long will it take for hackers to actually make them playable?
My first impression was that it was just an internal list referencing removed games, but people are saying that they're actually on there, so we'll see. It's really interesting that they tossed this trainwreck out in this state,there's plenty of games on that list that could have sold gangbusters if they were included by default.
Quote from: mz on November 29, 2018, 10:04:08 AM
I know everyone here is a JRPG nerd
Not everyone... 8)
So here's my take on this thing.
"Game selection isn't so good": well like mz said, you'll never please everyone.
"The menu and options aren't very good": well, it's a mass market product, so as long as the games just work okay, then I don't think there's a big issue (I'm just glad I don't need to worry about plugins).
"The emulator is an open source one rather than in house": well, if the open source one is better then why not?
"Half the games are PAL": WHAT?! Are you fucking serious?!! How the hell could you screw up this badly? What logical reason can you have for using PAL games on a US system? Incompetence? Laziness? Mama mia, what a cock up.
Seriously, I could forgive those other quibbles (not that I was going to buy one anyway) but the fact they use a mix of PAL and NTSC games for no logical reason whatsoever is simply ludicrous.
The worst offender is that the emulation is the worst the system has ever seen. No emulator ever released did a worse job than what it does, which is quite offensive. They did worse than what AT games does with Sega.
Quote from: nesrocks on December 06, 2018, 12:17:44 PMThey did worse than what AT games does with Sega.
I doubt that. AT games did bare bone Chinese knock-off emulation (i.e. currently the worst classic console, de facto), while the PS1 Classic seems to be at least decent while it's not stellar.
That's not what I've been reading. This is just one of the sources, but it's a good example: https://www.destructoid.com/review-playstation-classic-532740.phtml
Apparently with something as simple as plugging in the right keyboard, you can also turn on the emulator's settings which include the normal stuff like scanlines (so why aren't they there in the first place?)
Since there's talk about wanting to hack in the rest of the games, there's a lot of info about what works and what doesn't on a Raspberry Pi on the 'net. I'm pretty sure it's going to be mostly on the spot for the PS1 Classic, given the specs (though there were reports of slowdown in MGS on a Pi).
I'd suggest you save the accessories from the Playstation Classic, if you buy one, to either be used on the NES/SNES Classic. That way, we can take back from what we lost with Sony.
Quote from: nesrocks on December 06, 2018, 12:17:44 PMThe worst offender is that the emulation is the worst the system has ever seen. No emulator ever released did a worse job than what it does, which is quite offensive.
How can you say that when it's exactly the same open-source emulator that everyone has seen?
Even if you want to limit yourself to commercially-released stuff, Bleem sets a pretty low bar.
Quote from: nesrocks on December 06, 2018, 04:13:05 PM
That's not what I've been reading. This is just one of the sources, but it's a good example: https://www.destructoid.com/review-playstation-classic-532740.phtml
That article seems to be aiming mainly at the game selection. Hardware wise the PS Classic is rather decent, not the most powerful around, but it still does the job mostly fine. AT consoles, on the other hand, have real shit hardware and can't even get a clear audio output, plus it's got all sorts of weirdness with video out as well. At least with PS Classic, given that it's hacked, you have a valid piece of hardware, with stuff like the MegaDrive mini all you can do is open your trash bin and practice basket.
Quote from: Gemini on December 07, 2018, 09:33:18 AMHardware wise the PS Classic is rather decent, not the most powerful around, but it still does the job mostly fine.
The hardware isn't decent at all and it definitely doesn't do the job fine at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU0dn9pRKuw
I wouldn't touch this piece of shit even if they paid me to use it...
I've used $10 phones (that is: portable, with their own screen, battery, etc.) from 2010 that can run ePSXe with increased inner resolution, 60 FPS, smooth textures, etc. Even the same emulator they used on this crap (PCSX ReARMed) runs at 60 FPS on all the phones I've tested it (and without the need of all the awful hacks they added...)
It runs at horrible frame rates, with hipcups in the sound playback. That is NOT decent. It's very indecent. Utterly unplayable.
Quote from: Jorpho on December 06, 2018, 10:33:26 PM
How can you say that when it's exactly the same open-source emulator that everyone has seen?
Even if you want to limit yourself to commercially-released stuff, Bleem sets a pretty low bar.
If I'm remembering correctly ReARMed is the bottom of the barrel these days on at least android, and It's the only one on 3DS or Pi. But it's still nowhere as bad as Bleem!
Quote from: mz on December 07, 2018, 10:28:49 AMI've used $10 phones (that is: portable, with their own screen, battery, etc.) from 2010 that can run ePSXe with increased inner resolution, 60 FPS, smooth textures, etc. Even the same emulator they used on this crap (PCSX ReARMed) runs at 60 FPS on all the phones I've tested it (and without the need of all the awful hacks they added...)
My point still stands: that's a software hiccup, not hardware. Manufacturing is leagues above that of AT games. Wait until somebody hacks the system and places a better replacement than PCSX ReARMed.
One guy claims to have hacked the PSX Classic.
https://github.com/justMaku/gpghax
https://youtu.be/5RCB3Cas5Ck
But I have yet to see anyone else verify his findings.
If it is true, then someone should replace the emulator on that thing with the Android version of ePSXe, so it would actually be something useful instead of a little grey piece of shit shaped like a Sony PlayStation.
UPDATE:
Found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoxAR2nLav0
Maybe it isn't a hoax.
Hopefully someone who's bought it won't need to buy a second time. If we could get it to boot directly to ePSXe all the better, because it's UI is more useful in general.
The only games that won't work with the android version that I've thrown at it are the Pro Pinball games, due to some obscure graphic issue it requires the OpenGL plugin (it's a separate download, but not the best implimentation of it). Oh, and you might want to stick with FXAA and use the scanline settings for that. For some reason both of the CRT shaders are really slow on my device, otherwise I can run the highest settings no problem.
Ah, Sony. Always copying Nintendo.
Quote from: NERV Agent on December 08, 2018, 08:19:04 AM
One guy claims to have hacked the PSX Classic.
They're making steady progress at this point.
Quote from: NERV Agent on December 08, 2018, 08:19:04 AM
One guy claims to have hacked the PSX Classic.
looks like somebody did an even better job:
https://github.com/pathartl/BleemSync
It can now be empirically stated that apparently an emulator running on the SNES mini can, in at least some conditions, outperform the PS1 classic.
https://www.vg247.com/2018/12/12/ps-one-classic-snes-mini-emulator/
Quote from: Jorpho on December 12, 2018, 10:12:13 PM
It can now be empirically stated that apparently an emulator running on the SNES mini can, in at least some conditions, outperform the PS1 classic.
https://www.vg247.com/2018/12/12/ps-one-classic-snes-mini-emulator/
Looks like Sony screwed up royally somewhere, because the PS1 classic has better hardware (almost) all around.
We won't really know for sure just how bad it is until someone tests the classic using RetroArch with it's ReARMed core though, I'm pretty sure that's what the SNES mini is using.
Did ya hear? This thing is bombing hard.
LOL Karma.
I'd like to think that means it will be turning up for dirt-cheap everywhere soon enough, but Sony is probably smarter than that. Then again, my PSP Go cost $50 CDN brand-new.
But crappy as it may be, it's still two USB controllers, right? Then again, since there's no analog sticks, they won't really be useful for very much.