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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm

Title: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm
Some weeks ago user @njosro started a topic about his Zelda II - Restart from Palace hack, which makes it so that the game restarts you at the start of a palace you currently are after a Game over or Continue.
This inspired me to further hack Zelda II to more or less alleviate the most obnoxious things which takes away from making Zelda II a more enjoyable experience.

Here is the patch for the beta (Updated with each release):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

And here's the changelog of the hack compared to vanilla Zelda II so far:


If anyone can give a full run of the game and let me know how the changes feel, please let me know.

I am also seeking out for suggestions and things that could make Zelda II a better experience over all.
If you have any suggestions, please feel free to post them here!
I'll analyze them and try to add them if I feel fit.

One thing worth nothing though, is that I most likely won't be modifying any graphics for sure, nor implement whole new spell behaviours or anything like that.
I'll try to focus on 1) Rebalancing the game, 2) Modify stuff which is already obnoxious in-game, 3) Perhaps rewriting some lines which don't make sense in the game.
Though, if any of you still have some ideas which you think might add to the game and are somewhat doable, please feel free to let me know :)

TODO list:

HELP NEEDED FOR:

Possible enemy modifications:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 15, 2018, 03:36:30 pm
All the things you listed sound great so far, if I could add any one thing to it, I would speed up the NPC text.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 15, 2018, 04:20:56 pm
Nice work. :)

Would be cool to see these things fixed/improved:
-Sword attack is canceled if you swing right before landing or jumping
-Need to reselect spells in every new screen/room before use and after using a spell once you need to reselect it again
-Accumulated exp is wasted when you finish a dungeon and level up instantly
-A smaller world map, less dead space (if possible it would be nice to be able to enter a village from either side - except for the river town)
-More even experience balancing in the early game with tougher/larger enemies giving a bit more exp
-Faster dialogue text (shows the whole message with one press, removes it with the next)
-More uses for tools and rarely used spells in dungeons
-(more out there) Implement the boomerang or the bow
-Shorten the beeping when low on health - 3-4 times is enough
-(a lot of work) redesign the game to be more non-linear in structure, like Zelda 1
-Make MP drops a bit more common overall, or just early on (for example the statue outside the first palace could drop one, like the later ones do)
-(more out there) Implement manual blocking of enemies moving into you with the shield, by pressing a button combo
-Make it possible to see how much you have left to reach each stat level at will instead of just when you level up
-Maybe switch around some dialogue to make clues harder to miss

-You could also remove the ability to jump attack enemies like the knights in the face to skip the duels, though that's more controversial
-Might also be controversial: remove the knockback when hitting enemies (but not the blocks if possible)
-Might also be controversial: make it hard to bounce past enemies using downthrust

I personally didn't mind the exp stealing enemies that much, maybe it could be an optional feature.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 05:09:44 pm
Oh the text speed is one that I haven't even thought of.
I gave it a try and I think I managed to make it much more fluent and faster.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Give that one a try and let me know what do you think about it.
The only downside with that is that now the Typewriter sound goes way faster and sounds like a raspy thing instead.
I could remove the sound, but it sounds way too empty in between textbox sounds.

If you want to hear how it would sound without the Typewriter noise, open up the ROM in a hex editor and change the byte found at 0xF757 from 60 to 00 (so that it doesn't make any sound).
Other sounds in between are the laser from the sword sound and the death sound.



As for your recommendations PresidentLeever, I am interested in rebalancing some of the Exp points given out by enemies, though I don't know which ones yet as I feel most enemies at the start do offer a considerable amount of Exp given the trouble they give to kill them. If someone has suggestions as to what enemies to change, please let me know.

The beeping for the health is another one I might be interested in, as is the switching around some dialogue and more common enemy drops.
I feel like changing the dialogue would be something I would do last, just so that I can focus only in that exclusively and not many things at once.

One last thing nothing, is that alongside graphics, I don't think I'll be changing the game's layout too much/at all.
The only things I find annoying are the pits when you tend to fall to them by a knockback, but that's all that I can think of.

I'm still open to suggestions, so once I know we have the text speed out of the way I might tackle something else from the suggestions :)

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DavidtheIdeaMan on March 15, 2018, 06:14:04 pm
You know,since we are making changes to Zelda II and make it less frustrating,maybe you can tackle of the Castlevania Nes Games?   
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 11:09:15 am
Nice, yeah I actually talked to someone else who did that with the text speed a while back and had the same issue so that's why I suggested the button press idea. But personally I'm fine with this too.

Alright, I've only played up to the first palace so far but would suggest these exp changes:
Orange moblin - 2-4 exp
Orange goriya - 24-30 exp (or lower the red moblin a little bit)
"wolf" in the palace - 1-3 exp

Edit:
Beat the first palace. I think 6 hits for the skull/bubble is a bit much given the exp they give? But standing and hitting them over and over isn't fun so maybe just reduce the exp they give to 25 or so (and keep 50 for the fast one).

Blue bat - 10 exp
Red goriya - 35-40 exp

I wanted to do an improvement/rebalance hack using the editor earlier and as part of that tried to reduce the overworld size (to make it easier to spot item locations and reduce travel times), but ran into some issue with certain tiles in eastern hyrule. Ran into issues when changing the dialogue as well (there is a retranslation online that I used as reference). I also wanted to do much more, but couldn't, so it's great to see this taking shape now. :)

This was about as far as I got with the OW maps:
https://i.imgur.com/p6xrR7q.png
https://i.imgur.com/DM1QUo9.png
https://i.imgur.com/cTSa7iC.png

I can try to explain the sword swing cancel in more detail, I think that would be a big improvement if fixed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Ar8temis008 on March 16, 2018, 04:34:52 pm
Now this is a crazy idea and I don't expect you to go through with it, but what if you removed the overworked completely? It adds nothing to the game except needless confusion.

You could add branching path ways in levels that lead to different areas, it would sort of play like Castlevania II (except better).

The manual save feature and less linear design that was mentioned earlier would complement this.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 16, 2018, 06:11:28 pm
Played for a bit, and it's really promising so far. I think the speedy text works great, the sound doesn't bother me at all.

If you want to know about a certain enemy that needs rebalancing, I have a suggestion for Doomknocker. They throw maces that return to them like a boomerang... or at least that's how you expect it to work.  If you kill doomknockers after they throw their maces, the maces will return to where they are and stay there for a bit, before going back into the direction they were thrown.  This really messes with the player's expectations, and given that they've been placed over a few lava pits, this is a really bad move.  If at all possible, i'd like to see that their maces return to the direction they were thrown from and keep going, like you'd expect of a boomerang type weapon.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 06:33:50 pm
ShadowOne333, I'm a fan of all of your hacks and was really excited to see this and apply your prototype patch.

My thoughts so far: if there is a way to totally cut off the sound with the sped up text, I think that would be the right direction. The static sound is a distraction.

Also, with the hearts: I absolutely love the concept of switching out the life bar. However, my first visual impression of the dark blue background surrounding the hearts struck me as aesthetically off. I've gotten used to it the more I play but I think the first impression is important. My suggestion would be to remove the blue background all together, let the hearts stand directly against the area backdrop. When the hearts are emptied, perhaps they could be turned white?

Thanks again for working on this. I'm sure I'll have more feedback as I get deeper in.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 07:58:30 pm
Yes it's not quite perfect. Maybe do something like these suggestions if possible:
(https://i.imgur.com/BYuApRu.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 08:22:49 pm
Both great options. But if the hearts can't switch to white, I think I'd rather see the blue outline than have them disappear altogether. It also gives you that cool Ocarina effect.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 08:43:51 pm
Oh right, something like this then? Either black or blue inside, click to zoom.
(https://i.imgur.com/MjuGq8m.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 09:08:29 pm
When I mentioned white, I was thinking the solid red hearts could turn solid white when you lose them. As opposed to that, you could leave the blue outline of the heart and have them go black.

However, based on this second image, black center white outline looks very good too. Might be the ideal scenario. I wouldn't have the hearts turn blue. I don't think there is a precedent in the franchise for that and it seems odd visually.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 09:25:37 pm
Well this mimics zelda 3 and link's awakening whereas that would look like zelda 1. But the blue in shadowone's version is probably a layer on top of a simple red meter that drains so it might not be doable. 

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 09:36:42 pm
Thank you, guys!
It's really great to see this kind of suppport and suggestions :)
Really appreciated!

As for the heart meter, PresidentLeever is correct.
While the mockups are nice and pretty, I ended up using the blue "mask" to cover up the effect the game uses to display the health.

It's basically a red rectangle which drains, and it does so in a rectangle shape sadly.
I explained why I used that design in detail here:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25751.msg352319#msg352319

Quote from: ShadowOne333
I struggled quite a bit because the game uses some kind of background colour for keeping track of the health, which is why I ended up putting a blue colour around the hearts so that this effect is not seen while in gameplay.

So sadly, I am limited by:
1) Four colours. Well actually three (white, blue and red) and a transparency one (background).
2) The background layer which keeps track of the health. It seems to be just one single 8x8 tile repeated several times, so I gotta e careful what to put there, and also make sure it is mirrored perfectly when the health drains, because the tile ends up moving left a bit.
If I use another shape that's not a rectangle, it will overlap or go out of the heart-shape bounds.

So yeah, sadly that's what I could do without having to redo the whole health/damage routines. I'm still thinking about what to do with the Magic meter though, not sure if I will make it one solid bar or keep it segmented as it is.
I also thought about swaping the blue and white for it, making it so that the Magic meter is blue instead of white, but I'll see what I can do :p

Thanks again, guys!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 10:08:47 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 10:13:00 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Well...
I COULD use black, but that would mean sacrificing either the blue or white.
If I sacrifice the blue for a solid black, the only drawback would be the Sword graphic having no hilt xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 01:40:41 am
Here's some of my suggestions if you want to add them to your hack:

Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
(https://tcrf.net/images/c/c3/TAOL_Water.gif)
Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
(https://tcrf.net/images/9/9c/Zelda2-MazePalace.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/f/f6/Zelda2-HiddenPalace.png)
Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
(https://tcrf.net/images/5/5b/TAOL_JP15.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/0/06/FDS_Zelda_II_Kidnapped_Child.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/9/94/TAOL_JP13.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/3/3c/TAOL_JP19.png)
Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 07:45:56 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: NES Boy on March 17, 2018, 08:47:16 am
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
But which localization should we base this reference on? Depending on the translation, the name in the English Dragon Quest game is either Loto or Erdrick.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 09:39:41 am
As far as i'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:05:15 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Can you post a pic of it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 11:33:49 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:45:53 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx
Okay I think I know why that happens.
Remember the problem I mentioned with the health bar having a red rectangle as a background?
It's related to that.

It seems the boss' life meter uses the same graphic.
I had to fill the whole 8x8 tile with red so that we could have a full heart in the health meter, so that is why you see a full bar instead of a segmented one.

I will try to see what I can do about it this Tuesday.
I might end up either modifying Link's health bar again or making the Boss' life bar a full non-segmented bar, one of the two. The later most likely.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 12:47:09 pm
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Thanks, I'm glad that you liked my suggestions.

As far as I'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.

I agree with you, I also think we should go with Erdrick as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 01:33:36 pm
Just finished the 2nd Palace. I really liked how the bubble enemy health was significantly reduced but I think the same thing should be done to the Ras (floating blue dragon heads). I was always one of those OCD players who couldn't help but kill everything no matter how long it took and eliminating the 12 or so required hits would be wonderful.

Btw, I think the cutting of magic consumption by 1/2 is working fine. I still find myself desperately looking for magic potions at times and overall it still feels balanced for the NES era. I wouldn't suggest increasing magic and xp drop rates as I believe it would only cheapen the experience. 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 17, 2018, 04:30:30 pm
Making the skulls/bubbles go down that quick already is an increase in exp drops in practice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 04:53:28 pm
would this be doable? https://ibb.co/hGD1Nx

the green sword hilt doesnt really bother me, and i dont think the letters need the blue shadow really

also, the enemies that drain exp. are hella annoying, but maybe find a way to make them drain (much) less than they normally do would be better than completely taking away,

also, i think, the point of making the bubble such a "tank" to begin with was that they were such a exp. farm. idk, it might be too easy if they go down in a few hits though. maybe 1/3 would be good?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 05:40:52 pm
@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 10:06:28 pm
https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

also, it would only be a visual thing, but the fireball spell could be changed to Bow and Arrow, it would still drain magic, but it might could work (bombs are "magic" items in BotW)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

not sure if you can use something like that, but would look super cool

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 18, 2018, 12:13:21 am
I have a suggestion, which I'll write on this slip of paper and drop in your suggestion box.

Increase the striking range of Link's sword by one tile exactly, please. That isn't a sword, it's a kitchen knife. You'd have to extend the sprite as well, naturally.

Hope it's somehow doable, sometime :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 18, 2018, 04:57:33 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: wolpak on March 18, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Love these ideas.

Anyway to have experience levels go up to level 10 each?  Maybe balance that with more powerful end game enemies.

I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 18, 2018, 11:20:02 pm
agreed, lives would be perfect like that!

also, if the "double jump" (ability to jump again in midair) could replace the wierd floaty jump spell would be awesome

and fall in a pit or lava, instead of taking a life, should restart you at the beginning of the room with 1 less heart, and should only kill you (obviously) if you have 1 heart or less. that would be awesome
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on March 20, 2018, 02:55:45 am
Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DankPotato2600 on March 20, 2018, 11:12:12 am
DO NOT change the 'I AM ERROR'
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 11:31:12 am
Man what a shit weekend I had.
Sorry about not posting.

Now back on track, wow you guys surely have some interesting points.
Let me get back to some of them:

Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
This is one of the first re-translations I was gonna make ;)
I want to keep both the Error guy and Bagu, but Bagu will have his proper english name of Bug.
I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.
This is something I am thinking to implement, however from what I've seen, the game does not save the amount of lives into SRAM at any point, so I have to see if I could somehow make the game save the maximum amount of lives into SRAM and then add +1 to that lives counter for when you find a Link Doll at any point.
This might require some heavy ASM hacking, and SRAM hacking too, which I am a noob at, so it would be tackled down the road to see if I can do it. If someone could help here, it'd be greatly appreciated.

https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!

That's a really good mockup!
But sadly I still need a colour to overlay the Health/Magic consumption bar.
So that means I need 3 colours for the HUD, one which should be white for the letters, one to mask the consumption effect, and another one for the hearts. So this really doesn't leave any room for the green colour at all.
Either I go for a whole black to cover up the red/white bars (consumption) or change the overlay from blue to green, but it doesn't look pretty. So I am stuck with either leaving the Blue overlay or either making it black completely, but the sword icon won't look good. xD
One more thing, is that I haven't tried to flip around or reorganize the order in which the Sword, Magic and Health are displayed/printed in the HUD.

@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.

Well I didn't really see it that way to be honest.
In the first palace you encounter Red Stalfos, which are really easy to kill (go down in like 3 hits I believe) without any effort but simply ducking and stabbing their feet. They give out 30 Exp.
Now compare them with the Bubbles which require around 10~ or so stabs and they give 50 Exp, and I think the comparison is valid if you take into consideration other sword/shield based enemies in the 1st Palace.
I think the damage dealt to them is now way more in balance to how many hits they took to kill them, and at the end they just give out 50 Exp, which is kinda lame compared to the amount of stabs given out in the original to kill them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@SCD sorry I didn't get back to you before.
Let me address your suggestions:


1) Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Would this be for the Game Over screen or the bosses roar?
I kinda like the Game Over screen sound of the NES one.
Though I can't remember if the NES used any sound for the bosses at all.

2) Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
How exactly did the level system work for the FDS port?
For what I know, the Level system is way more user friendly in the NES, isn't it?

3) Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
This will be done for sure when I tackle rewriting the script.

4) Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
This is one I REALLY want to do, but the NES port completely disabled the text prompt in that particular place in Saria.
If someone knows a way to re-implement this into the NES port, please let me know, as I'd really love to see this one back in the NES one. The text I will be going for (if this gets implemented back) is "The hero Erdrick rests here"

5) Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
This is one I want to put back in as well, but I haven't really researched enough as if it is possible to achieve or not in the NES port. If someone has an insight or knows how to do it, please let me know as well.
I think this will require modifying the mapper of the ROM.

6) Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
This I might do as well, the windows look neat enough to not have them there :P

7) Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
I think that from all of these, I might only end up doing the River Devil.
Carock and Volvagia's sprites look better to me on the NES release, and the Kidnapped Child has a purpose.
In the original FDS game, the Child's sprite had some sort of multiple ropes which tied him up, and you had to stab it with the sword to free him. However, in the NES release, you can simply pick up the Child, which makes the need of the ropes useless anymore as you don't remove the ropes now.

8) Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
The mockup looks really cool. Though I'm still unsure about this.
I don't know if this will affect something in-game or not. Is visiting the King's Tomb necessary for progression in the game? I can't recall right now, it's been quite a while since I last did a full playthrough of Zelda 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 20, 2018, 01:09:20 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 20, 2018, 01:46:15 pm
ShadowOne333,


   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

IamCaptPlanet

   Now that I've completed my hack, A Double Jump is something I'm going to look into as well. I think that would be so much better than the current JUMP spell.


The game currently caps the level progression to 8 and enemy HP to a max of 255. If someone could create a way to go pact those caps,  I'd love to see it. Or at least for attack, include the Master Sword and increase the emeny hp cap to go beyond 255 to 300-350.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 03:10:28 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
I'll have to take a look and see what I can do about the bosses' roars.
I hope they don't rely on the FDS extra sound channels, or else I'd be screwed.

I'll give the level system a look too once I am out of the Enemy balancing, I want to start focusing on that and in the HUD just to have that settled down and then I'll move into other stuff.

As for the King's Tomb place, I might change it out IF I find out how to bring up the NPC and the same message in the unused area.

   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

So it is possible then, interesting. Good to know. Thanks for the heads up!
I might have to take a peek at IcePenguin's hack and try to track down how he did it.
If Trax could help out in this regard, that would be even better, I'd be really grateful.

----------------------------------------------

Oh also, for the people that are trying the latest patch, please try the following:

Open up the patched ROM in a hex editor, and go to the following address:
0x00F756

Once you do, you should see the following bytes [A9 60].
Try to change the 60 in there for a 00, and reload the ROM in your emulator.

Now try to load up any text and compare them.
This effectively removes the typewriter sound for when text is being printed out.

Let me know what do you guys think of it, if you like it more with the noise of the typewriter being fast, or if I should remove it altogether.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 04:28:00 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 04:29:47 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
I'm all up for fixing it (if it indeed is a bug), but I haven't done any research on it nor do I know what it consists of and what its repercussions are. It for sure will require some ASM so I would most likely take a look at it later rather than sooner.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 05:16:57 pm
Alright, thanks. It happens if you jump right after hitting attack, or attack right before landing from a jump. The expected behavior is that link completes the swing while jumping or landing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 20, 2018, 08:48:25 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.

Well...yeah maybe a whole tile is a lot. But a couple of pixels I think would still be too short to really be a sword. A proper sword should be the length of Link's torso, you'd think. So...I mean, I'm gonna ballpark guess that 4 pixels longer would be enough? Plus, games do things in multiples of 4 a lot, so that should be easy, or so I would guestimate without any real knowledge of the thing.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.

Indeed, I'd say so. Longer Darknut swords in equal measure. Sauce for the goose.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 23, 2018, 01:42:34 pm
Dropping by to say that I won't be able to work on this project for like a week or two due to vacations.
But still, feel free to post suggestions and things which might make Zelda II a better experience overall.

I'd be taking notes for when I get back to it by the end of March/start of April, so don't hesitate to post your suggestions ;)

Last thing I did was ramp up a bit the enemy drops (from 1/6 to 1/5), so that's the less thing from the TODO list remaining.

Next up might be checking what the heck is going on with the Bosses' life bar.
I am sure it has to do with the new HUD, so I will take a look at those sprites while fighting the first boss in the First Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: zstandig on March 23, 2018, 09:28:59 pm

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".

It's been a while since I've played through Zelda II so I might be missing some context, but would "TOMB OF KINGS" work?  I figured since now we know the official timeline and Zelda II is pretty late, so it would be reasonable to have a tomb of many past kings.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 09, 2018, 03:14:56 pm
Back, boys :)
And I bring to you the latest beta:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

This one should have more common enemy drops (but not that common, from 1/6 to 1/5) and it should also fix the issue with the Boss' health bar.

For the later, I had to do some compromises, I had to reduce the height of the Hearts in the Life meter by one pixel.
So right now it should be like 6 pixels tall, and I feel like it still looks really good in the HUD.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/ur1tu.png)

Let me know what do you guys think!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 09, 2018, 04:03:12 pm
That looks great! Glad to see you back, chugging away.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 09, 2018, 07:37:43 pm
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 07:28:26 am
Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 10:14:22 am
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3

Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed ALttP Redux :)
I will check Revility's hack and see what I can gather from it to accommodate for this one.

Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?

Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 11:12:06 am
Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?

As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 12:15:24 pm
As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Oh I see.
I might have to check out Revility's hack to try to sort that little bug out.

I think I might do a repaletting of Link, as I feel like his colours look washed out and not as vibrant as they should be.

How's this for a change?

(http://i63.tinypic.com/1z4eryb.png)

Or this one

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2me47zr.png)

This are the original colors of Link just for reference:
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Legend_of_Zelda_2_The_Adventure_of_Link_NES_ScreenShot4.gif)

As for the tile animation for the water in the outworld, I'll try to check it out after I am done with this and some enemy editing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 02:41:50 pm
I like both of those.

I would like to make Link's Tunic either blue or gold.

As far as the moving water, do you think you can find the solution looking at the FDS version and maybe transferring that info over?

Also, IcePenguin emailed me a day ago, so he might be back. If so, he may also be able to answer that question as well as the tell you about that DASH spell.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 07:38:43 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 09:00:51 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)

That's a pretty darn good mockup!
Unfortunately, you are correct.
We are currently limited to 3 main colors for Link, which are brown, green and beige.
4th colour is used for transparency, sadly.
The only way to achieve your mockup would be to do a mask sprite ala Megama indeed.

Also for the brown being TOO dark...
That's the only other shade of brown below the one used by default.
You can check here, this is the whole colour palette the NES uses:
(http://gamester81.com/wp-content/uploads/nes-color-palette.jpg)

Link uses colours 18 for brown, 2A for green and 36 for beige in vanilla Zelda II.
I changed them to 08 brown, 1A or 19 green and 37 beige.
I'm tempted to use color 07 instead of the brown, but not sure how well received that'd be.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 10:11:31 pm
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 11, 2018, 07:29:08 am
The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 10:20:30 am
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s

17 still looks way too bright imo.
One way to check it out would be to load any game, and then compare the 17 with the red carpet on Zelda's Chamber.
It's almost the same colour.
07 doesn't look that bad if you look at it compared with both the black background and any coloured background, I might go for 07 instead, 37 for skin and I think 2A for the green.

With 17 for the outline:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2ihksx2.png)

07 for the outline:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2dubfrc.png)

The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL

I think Link's palette is at 0x01C460.
You should find [0F 18 36 2A] around there. If it's not in 0x01C460 it should be the one at 0x01C47B.
Try changing the one at 1C460 first and see if that does it.
Note: This should only change Link's palette in side view, Overworld palettes are stored somewhere else, as do the File selection palettes with Link's little avatar there as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 11, 2018, 12:46:03 pm
You spend much less time in zelda's chamber than in dungeons but this shows why they picked 18 I think, it doesn't blend in with either (although it does blend with certain town buildings). Anyway 07 looks alright when zoomed in to full screen size so if others like it then go for it.

As an aside I also did a quick mockup with three colors and more pronounced highlights on the dark parts yesterday but I wasn't quite happy with it as all parts seem to be of the same material.
https://i.imgur.com/7vheI3p.png
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 12:54:04 pm
Oh yeah you spend much of the time outside Zelda's chamber of course.
but yes, so far seems like 07 seems like a good option overall.

07 with black background:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/m9na0w.png)

07 in towns (put Link in a red building for comparison and testing):
(http://i64.tinypic.com/qrho9u.png)

Still looks quite good though, I can't remember if there are other places in Zelda II which might crash with the 07 colour of the outline. If someone does, please let me know.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 11, 2018, 01:45:09 pm
I was going to recommend 07 anyways! I think it looks good.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 12, 2018, 09:24:21 am
If you do end up using parts of Revility's hack, please use the altered Link sprite as its way better then the original ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 12, 2018, 12:06:18 pm
All of the sprites from Revility's hack are better than the original.

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.

Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 12, 2018, 12:14:31 pm
I'll give Revility's hack a look for sure :)
I haven't even tried it yet lol

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.
Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.

Oh you're right, they're the overworld palettes.
Well there are other three locations which you can try out:
0x002856, 0x0040BE and 0x017C15.

I'm not sure yet which one of these might do it.
I've been doing tests over the PPU and not directly to the ROM data, so I still haven't made the change permanent yet :P

EDIT:
It was the second address I mentioned.
It's the series of [FF 18 36 2A] palettes starting at 40AE-40E1, though this does not change the palette for Link in a Palace, that might be located somewhere else.

EDIT #2:
And indeed, they were somewhere else.
100AE-100E1 is where the palettes for Link inside palaces seem to be located.
Great Palace I think are at 140AE-140E1

I'm still not sure what the palette at 17C15 is for.
I tried looking at the disassembly to hopefully find clues but:
Quote
bank5_Table_for_some_palettes
LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: lastdual on April 12, 2018, 08:53:32 pm
You're also free to use or modify my link sprite should you wish to.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3702/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 06:19:49 pm
Decided to take a stab at the Introduction text today, this is how it ended up:

Quote
AFTER GANON WAS DESTROYED,
IMPA TOLD LINK ABOUT A
SLEEPING SPELL CAST ON
ANOTHER PRINCESS ZELDA.
SHE WILL WAKE ONLY WITH
THE POWER OF THE THIRD
TRIFORCE OF WISDOM SEALED
IN A PALACE IN HYRULE.
TO BREAK THE SEAL,CRYSTALS
MUST BE PLACED IN STATUES
IN 6 WELL GUARDED PALACES.
LINK SET OUT ON HIS MOST
ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET...
©1987 NINTENDO

(Is it the Triforce of Wisdom the one in Zelda II? I don't remember if it's that one or the one of Courage)

The only problem I hit with this edit is this:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/14szd45.png)

The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.
Should be a matter of finding out the tilemap and changing the palette values, which will take me quite some fiddling with the PPU memory.
If someone races it and finds it before me, please let me know :P
I will continue this until Monday, so if anyone jumps in with the info, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:49:48 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 07:52:08 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?

Shit now I have to rework the text to fit Courage instead of Wisdom. lol

Mmmm well I want it to be like vanilla, where all text is white and the Nintendo one is green.
But if you have something better in mind, please do tell :p
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:57:00 pm
I don't know where the colors for the text are. If I stumble upon something, I'd gladly let you know.

BTW, I started some work on a new Zelda 2 hack building off the concept of Trax's "Ice Tiles". If I can figure out how to incorporate it in the sideviews, that can open up some new gameplay concepts.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 13, 2018, 10:07:54 pm
The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 10:49:16 pm
As always IcePenguin, you are awesome!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 15, 2018, 04:55:33 pm
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Psyklax on April 16, 2018, 02:12:52 am
Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 10:54:32 am
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny

Could be a good way to put it as well, I might change it once I am out of Bugland.

Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)

Thanks! That sure helped out to understand it a bit more :)
I did know how tilemaps worked, I just didn't know how to get them with FCEUX using the debugger.
I freaking suck at using debuggers and their features to be honest, I tend to find everything from RAM of by ROM corruption xD

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)

That's awesome!
Damn tilemaps and their one byte thing :P

However, I stumbled upon two issues while doing this:

Here's a gif of how both issues look right now in-game (sorry for the lame-ass fps):
(https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Hacks/zelda2.gif?_subject_uid=287263362&raw=1&size=1280x960&size_mode=3&w=AABUx0BMAdCjkg4QEpoDvlKtjDHy_Qy91wAU8QnBhabVlw)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 16, 2018, 12:06:01 pm
Two other hacks i'd look at incorporating are:

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1276/ for the type faces and borders

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3716/ for the boxart accurate title screen

---

I'd also have a read through Rev Edition's thread as a lot of suggestions were made there - https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25528
I'd honestly try and collab with Revility made because between you, you could really make a comprehensive hacked version of Zelda 2. Do you think separate audio tracks could be used also? There are better versions of the songs available.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 16, 2018, 04:09:00 pm
This is looking good!
It'll be really cool to encourage other people to play this game who don't want to "appreciate" (suffer through) zelda 2's difficulty.

@Psyklax That bit of palette info is really helpful! I've been wanting to allow my text editor to do the intro text, but I'm no good with figuring out graphics stuff.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 05:29:57 pm
Managed to fix both issues posted earlier.
Were damn simple, but managed to fix them both haha

So here is the latest patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Now be sure to check the intro text and let me know if there is anything odd or out of place.
I'll see what I'll tackle next in the meanwhile haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on April 16, 2018, 07:44:56 pm
And the NPCs from this hack?

(Best design.)

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3795/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 17, 2018, 05:05:32 pm
Okay guys, I think I know what I'll be doing next.
I already gave the text a try, and I can repoint the text to some free space near the $F000 address for text boxes which are somewhat short.

So what I can do right now is expand any text box that has between 1-3 lines up to 4 lines of text in the textbox.

Now what I'd like you guys to help me out with, is to determine which lines of dialogue sound odd, cryptic or out of place, so that I know which ones to focus on and rework them properly.

Here's the comparison list with a retranslation from the Japanese text to English and also comparing it to the default English translation:
http://www.glitterberri.com/adventure-of-link/retranslation/

With that said, if you guys have any specific suggestion for a line or something, let me know.
Just take into consideration that the text boxes have the following limitations:

So to accommodate any retranslated text, we have to remember that we can only write up to 40 characters (10 per row) in any given text box.
That is the only limitation at the moment, unless I find a way to expand the text box to some other width (hopefully at least 15 chars).

Please, let me know any text changes suggestions you may have!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 17, 2018, 05:58:13 pm
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 18, 2018, 10:17:15 am
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Thanks for stopping by my humble thread, Trax! hahah :P
So you have attempted expanding the text boxes before, but you say the palettes are what made it difficult?
Interesting.

As for what you mention in the second paragraph, by accented characters you mean like Á, É, etc, or special characters like ', ?, !, etc?
I did notice that the game tends to jump one whole row of tiles to print the next line of text, so perhaps we could somehow bypass this to effectively have around 8 lines of text per textbox instead of the 4 we have at the moment.

I believe Bisquit did the same thing for Castlevania II's textboxes, where he made it so that each text box has 8 lines now instead of 4. Both CV2 and Zelda 2 seem to use a very similar textbox setup.

I'll try to attempt the 8 lines thing and see if I can make something out of it.

Thank you so much, Trax!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Trax:
I searched a little bit around the disassembly and found this in particular:

Code: [Select]
bank3_End_of_Line_Routine                                                      ;
ldy      #$0B                          ; 0xf666 $B656 A0 0B                    ; 0B = delay after dialog line with FD
cmp      #$FD                          ; 0xf668 $B658 C9 FD                    ;
beq      LB65E                         ; 0xf66a $B65A F0 02                    ;
ldy      #$2D                          ; 0xf66c $B65C A0 2D                    ; 2D = delay after dialog line with FE
LB65E                                                                          ;
sty      $0566                         ; 0xf66e $B65E 8C 66 05                 ; Delay between letters
lda      #$00                          ; 0xf671 $B661 A9 00                    ; A = 00
sta      $0489                         ; 0xf673 $B663 8D 89 04                 ; New Letter X Position (offset)
lda      $048A                         ; 0xf676 $B666 AD 8A 04                 ; Next Letter Y Position
clc                                    ; 0xf679 $B669 18                       ;
adc      #$40                          ; 0xf67a $B66A 69 40                    ; Go down 2 tiles (0x10 pixels)
sta      $048A                         ; 0xf67c $B66C 8D 8A 04                 ; New Letter Y Position
jmp      LB752                         ; 0xf67f $B66F 4C 52 B7                 ;

This seems to be related to the FD/FE commands that the text uses to make a new line.
The portion I focused on was the [69 40] in particular.
I tried to change it to [69 20] to try to make the game print to the tile below instead of skipping one.
It DOES print to the tile below, but not without deleting the one above as it prints new letters.
I also tried [69 60] just to try and see what it does when skipping 2 tiles and printing to the third one, and this one effectively makes it so that I can only have 3 lines of text in a textbox (just as a simple test).
But 69 20 keeps removing the line above as it prints letters sadly.

I'll try to see what I can do in the meanwhile with this.
Hopefully that's what you meant by the line skip, if not then I am screwing around somewhere else lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on April 19, 2018, 12:32:55 am
All you have to do to get an acceptable amount of space out of Zelda 2's message boxes is redo the text drawing code so it doesn't skip the spaces where the dakuten would go in the Japanese version.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 19, 2018, 10:26:27 pm
There are two things I remember that complicated things.

1. The space above each letter is printed because in the japanese there was a possibility for some characters having those lines (") above them. If you print any character in a certain range it will print (") (but actually comes out as garbage text in the US version since the tileset is different). Otherwise it prints a space character above the letter. So if you find the spot where it does that and get rid of that bit of code then you should probably be able to do the no skipping lines thing without a problem.

2. After printing 4 lines of text the counter wraps around to zero and starts printing from the top again. If I recall correctly, it was because the line number was actually stored as the y position that directly corresponds to the y position on screen, so you can't go down past the last line of text without requiring 2 bytes (which is why the text box is at the height you see in the game). You'd need to make things more complicated and do your own math routine to get past this.


So if you find the code that prints the extra character above the letters and remove it, and then make it increase the y counter by 0x08 instead of 0x10 you should be able to do it. But I'm just going by memory here...

EDIT:
I didn't read Midna's post fully! The dakuten is the symbol I'm talking about when I write this: (")
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 20, 2018, 01:12:50 am
I have just retrieved the solution in my documents. If you want to go on and find the answer for yourself, I encourage you to do so. But if you prefer for me to provide the answer, I'll do it.

What you have to consider is that everytime a letter is drawn on screen, there's actually 2 tiles that are drawn. The letter itself, and the tile above. The top tile is set to empty (F4), or an accent tile, used initially in the Japanese version, and never happens in the US version, so the tile is always empty. If you want to see what happens visually, go to F416, and replace all F4 values by FE (or whatever tile you want). You will end up with a dialog box with a different background, and the drawn tiles will be visually distinguishable.

Important note. Because of that 2-tile setup, you may lose one line either at the top (original game's setup), or at the bottom. The reason why you can't start at the very top of the interior of the dialog box is that it would overwrite the top border with empty tiles. So, without skipping lines, you can have a clean 7 lines of text instead of 4. Not a bad improvement.

The more advanced alternative would be to remake the drawing macro code so that it uses only one tile and remove the accent tile completely. This is fine until you want to use languages with accented characters.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 20, 2018, 02:14:29 pm
That's some helpful insight from all of you!

So I have to look at the dialogue printing routines and see what they do.
@Trax, if I'm correct you are referring to these:

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box                                     ;
.word    bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings; 0xf403 $B3F3 07 B4    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf405 $B3F5 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf407 $B3F7 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf409 $B3F9 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40b $B3FB 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40d $B3FD 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40f $B3FF 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf411 $B401 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf413 $B403 15 B4                    ;
.word    bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings; 0xf415 $B405 07 B4    ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings                                 ;
.byt    $CA,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB; 0xf417 $B407 CA CB CB CB CB CB CB CB  ;
.byt    $CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CA        ; 0xf41f $B40F CB CB CB CB CB CA        ;
LB415                                                                          ;
.byt    $CC,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4; 0xf425 $B415 CC F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4  ;
.byt    $F4,$F4,$F4,$F4                ; 0xf42d $B41D F4 F4 F4 F4              ;
LB421                                                                          ;
.byt    $F4                            ; 0xf431 $B421 F4                       ;
LB422                                                                          ;
.byt    $CC                            ; 0xf432 $B422 CC                       ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

The part which prints the empty spaces is found at label LB415, and it seems the pointer table right above it uses this very same tilemapping.

Diving a little bit into the disassembly I found this portion of code which seems to control the drawing of the dialogue boxes, and it also utilizes this very same pointers and tilemaps for the empty F4s.

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Dialog_Routines_load_tiles_to_draw_the_dialog_box_lines_and_more__R1     ;
lda      $0525                         ; 0xf0e2 $B0D2 AD 25 05                 ; Routine Delay
asl                                    ; 0xf0e5 $B0D5 0A                       ;
tay                                    ; 0xf0e6 $B0D6 A8                       ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box,y; 0xf0e7 $B0D7 B9 F3 B3   ;
sta      L0002                         ; 0xf0ea $B0DA 85 02                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01,y; 0xf0ec $B0DC B9 F4 B3;
sta      $03                           ; 0xf0ef $B0DF 85 03                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01+$09,y; 0xf0f1 $B0E1 B9 FD B3;
sta      $04                           ; 0xf0f4 $B0E4 85 04                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01+$09+$01,y; 0xf0f6 $B0E6 B9 FE B3;
sta      $05                           ; 0xf0f9 $B0E9 85 05                    ;
ldy      #$0D                          ; 0xf0fb $B0EB A0 0D                    ; Y = 0D
LB0ED                                                                          ;
lda      (L0002),y                     ; 0xf0fd $B0ED B1 02                    ;
sta      $053E,y                       ; 0xf0ff $B0EF 99 3E 05                 ;;temp area used to copy from to generate the ppu macro for the spell menu
lda      ($04),y                       ; 0xf102 $B0F2 B1 04                    ;
sta      $054C,y                       ; 0xf104 $B0F4 99 4C 05                 ;
dey                                    ; 0xf107 $B0F7 88                       ;
bpl      LB0ED                         ; 0xf108 $B0F8 10 F3                    ;
jsr      bank3_Palette_modification_routine; 0xf10a $B0FA 20 0B B1             ; Palette modification routine
inc      $0525                         ; 0xf10d $B0FD EE 25 05                 ; Routine Delay
lda      $0525                         ; 0xf110 $B100 AD 25 05                 ;; Routine Delay
cmp      #$05                          ; 0xf113 $B103 C9 05                    ;
bcc      LB10A                         ; 0xf115 $B105 90 03                    ; if A < 05, return
bank3_Dialog_Routines_advance_to_next_routine_in_this_table__R2                ;
inc      $0524                         ; 0xf117 $B107 EE 24 05                 ; advance to next routine...
LB10A                                                                          ;
rts                                    ; 0xf11a $B10A 60                       ;
                                                                               ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

I'm a little busy at work today, and since weekend is at hand, I won't work on Redux until next Monday (I gotta get myself a PC damnit).
I will try to make out some sense out of it in the weekend though, I'll give it a good read and try to understand how it works :)

Thanks for the help, guys!
It is really appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 22, 2018, 12:28:34 am
Aside from the above hacks I mention above to incorporate, you should also change Bagu's name to Bug so the Error and Bug reference makes sense. Maybe add a line of dialog on one of them about being brothers or something to tie them together a bit more. I'd def try an incorporate the more accurate title screen and updated link sprites. Also, since you have hearts for health, maybe you could change the magic meter to green using Link's palette?

I had a lot of ideas for Revility. I could copy and paste them here if it helps.
Your work so far looks awesome :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 22, 2018, 09:02:24 am
I'm loving most of the improvements done here. I was just thinking though. The Giant Bubble is kind of KNOWN for having a ludicrous amount of HP and reducing it relieves a major issue, but maybe make it take a little bit more than just 5 (maybe 10?) just so that it is still drastically reduced but still retains some of the original feel. Just a suggestion.

As for Bagu's name, maybe Buggu or Buggo might sound better, but Bagu is simply Bug as far as his name. Though, one might think that they are referring to an insect and not a person.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on April 22, 2018, 07:07:08 pm
the skull bubbles like the lazors that come from the heads are more meant to be something to annoy you not to kill esp in the early game. there something to chase you out of a room and something to take magic away from you. just my opinion but reducing there hits to kill them defeats there purpose.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 23, 2018, 04:22:17 pm
Regarding the Skull Bubbles health, yeah I think I will make them have a bit more health than 5 hits.
I will make it 10 so that at least they're not AS easy.

What I did was take one other enemy as a base, in this case one of the Red Stalfos that appear in the first Palace, and then I saw how many hits they took and how much experience they gave in comparison.
The Red Stalfos take 3 hits and give 30 Exp, so I thought having the bubbles take 5 hits and give 50 Exp would be good enough, besides they move somewhat fast and tend to appear alongside other enemies, which means that you have to avoid getting hit or the Bubble will continue its path.
I will NOT restore the Bubble's original health, that's an absurd amount of health to just get 50 Exp back, I think something between 5-10 hits is okay. I am still open to suggestions to the correct amount. I might leave it at 10.

As for Bagu, I think I settled on naming him Bug, plain and simple. :P
Bagu's literal translation to English is Bug, so I will keep the running joke between Error and Bug as the original localization team attempted to do. Besides how could I remove such an iconic phrase of gaming history? lol
So Error and Bug will be their names :)

I had quite a busy weekend and sadly couldn't take a look at the dialogue box routines. :/
I will try to do so this week, hopefully I get a break or two at work to be able to dive into it properly.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on April 23, 2018, 10:01:13 pm
of course do what you want its your hack but if your going to make them that easy of a kill people will just grind them at 50 xp so I would suggest moving there xp way down considerably.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 24, 2018, 12:56:41 am
Speaking of rebalancing, I think the Great Palace is one to consider. I know it's meant to be difficult, but its difficult even for seasoned veterans. I know a heap of people who owned the game back in the day, got to the final dungeon and never finished it. The Fokka are just a bit OP. I feel like this could be offset with health or more magic items being strewn about but slightly less health might help those less seasoned. Those Blue Fokka.. well, they're mother fokkas that's for sure.

As for changes to the game, how far are you willing to go. I know you're open to incorporating parts of other hacks but would you be open to added in content, such as maybe an Impa sprite standing by Princess Zelda who tells you the story that the intro doesn't? Maybe put the Prince at King's Tomb. Actually, the FDS version of King's Tomb was better IMHO then just a single screen with a woman stating the obvious.

Revility made a lot of great dialog changes. With his game as a base and your changes, I think that would be the definitive Zelda 2 experience. And RetroAchievements for good measure. Pretty sure that'd draw more people to play your hack too
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 24, 2018, 05:55:36 am
What would be even better for the Great Palace is the inclusion of the bosses from the 1st 6 palaces. If someone can find a way to do that, That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 24, 2018, 10:21:51 am
Speaking of rebalancing, I think the Great Palace is one to consider. I know it's meant to be difficult, but its difficult even for seasoned veterans. I know a heap of people who owned the game back in the day, got to the final dungeon and never finished it. The Fokka are just a bit OP. I feel like this could be offset with health or more magic items being strewn about but slightly less health might help those less seasoned. Those Blue Fokka.. well, they're mother fokkas that's for sure.

Are those by any chance these little assholes?
(https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/strategywiki/images/8/8b/Adventure_of_Link_Fokkel_Blue.png)

Man this was the first enemy I thought of when I mentioned rebalancing some enemies, it's a nightmare going through these guys.
I remember I once got stuck in one of those block structures with a Blue Mofokka jumping in the other side and I was like:
"Goddamnit just de-spawn or something, I wanna get through!"
I freaking despise those guys lol.
It seems Red Fokkas have 48 HP and the Blue ones have double, 96 HP.

If someone has suggestions for rebalancing enemies on the Great Palace, I'm all up for suggestions on those.
You can get an idea of how much HP, damage and other stuff each enemy has in this page:
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Palace_Enemies#Great_Palace

I might have some spare time today, I'll try to focus on changing the health of the Bubbles in the meantime.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 24, 2018, 11:00:39 am
I wish it was easy to increase Link's maximum level. Even 8/8/8 can feel fragile in The Great Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 24, 2018, 01:11:39 pm
Okay I found the MoFokkas HP address in the ROM.
I changed the Red Fokka's HP from 48 to 40 and the Blue ones from 96 to 80.
This should at least alleviate a little bit the issues with those two in the Great Palace.

I also changed the Degu Bubble HP from 255 to 60, and the Bubbles in the Great Palace to 30 HP (from the usual 255).
For other Palaces, I made them have double the amount they had.
I think the Bubbles in normal palaces had 0A, I doubled it to 14 in hex.

That should do it right now for the most annoying enemies so far.
I might still edit some more enemies down the road.

Here's the patch with the latest changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Also, I found out that some addresses were wrong in the Data Crystal entry for Zelda II.
I took the liberty to fix them up, mostly in the enemy data.

Please be sure to give the newest patch a try and let me know how the Bubbles feel with the new HP, also try out the Great Palace to test the Fokkas and Bubbles HP, same for the Bit/Bot creatures.



As for the dialogue boxes, I will check them during the week, hopefully it's not that hard to remove that line that gets printed above to get at least 7 lines of text per box.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 24, 2018, 02:05:35 pm
Yeah, those mother fuckers.. Literally the worst. You gotta have your shit down or get lucky. There's no in between.
I think there are just too many of the TBH. Especially when you're looking for magic bottles and you accidentally awaken a Fokka out of no where. Desperation for health becomes desperation for survival so quickly lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 24, 2018, 05:58:17 pm
Come on, it's the last palace, it's supposed to be hard as hell. Great Palace = Great Difficulty.

I pretty much agree with ItemDrop about the Bubbles. It's obvious that the 250 HP value was meant to make them look invincible. It's only because you level up your sword power that they become killable with a reasonable amount of hits later in the game. I see two ways to balance the thing:

- Reduce the hit points, but as a tradeoff, also reduce the experience points. Plus, don't make them regenerate between screens (there's a flag for that in Enemy Attributes tables), to avoid obvious grinding.

Or...

- Make them truly invulnerable, as in, your sword goes through. There's a flag for that in the third Attributes Table. This way, they keep their function as annoying enemy that you have to avoid, and you don't have to worry about hit points or experience points.

As for the Fokkas. Yes, they are hard, but it's not like you hack your sword in all directions until they (or you) die. Like any other enemy, they have a pattern and you study the pattern to beat them. The only thing that annoys me is when they throw a flying blade at an odd height while mid-jump, and you're not sure whether you need to duck or not. Both Red and Blue Fokkas have the same movement AI, the only difference is that the Blue one shoots a lot more flying blades. You can't fight them like Iron Knuckles, so you basically have three options:

- Head hit while at the peak of the jump.
- Leg hit just before landing.
- Up thrust anytime while in mid-air. Note that this attack is more likely to hurt you at the same time.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 24, 2018, 11:18:48 pm
Most of the areas where the Blue Fokkas appear, you can use the landscape to your advantage to defeat them. Stay high and when they jump, hit them in the head and repeat the process.

ShadowOne - I figured out how to create a midair jump, but it is always on, so it renders jump magic useless. I haven't figured out how to get it working only when using the Jump spell yet.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 25, 2018, 04:03:40 am
Its not like I haven't finished Zelda 2 a number of times :p I can imagine if it were a boss that were really difficult that would make sense but a regular enemy.. its a cop out. Less skilled players hit a brick wall and stop playing and is it really worth keeping the original difficulty just because difficult? I don't think so. If you want the original unbalanced version, that's what the official release is for. I mean the logic for arguing for keeping Fokkas at their original difficulty would be the same if you were arguing against the 'start at the entrance of palace' hack also as that makes things easier too.

I imagine this version of the game would be better if it appealed to more players. Maybe a compromise would be best. Maybe make the Up stab take like a third/quarter of their health? Either way, a regular enemy shouldn't impede a player THAT much that the only way past is precision shots to the head. Also you can't really use the landscape to your advantage when they can launch a volley of penetrating blades through anything. Maybe making their blades stop on blocks would balance things more also.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 25, 2018, 01:18:45 pm
- Reduce the hit points, but as a tradeoff, also reduce the experience points. Plus, don't make them regenerate between screens (there's a flag for that in Enemy Attributes tables), to avoid obvious grinding.
Oh! I completely forgot there was a bit for respawning the enemy!
I think I'm gonna go for this option.
Making them non-respawnable would kinda fix the possible Exp grinding so early on.
I found them starting at 0x011571, changing the 46 to 06 seems to do it.
Though I gotta be honest, I intended to do this to make my life easier through the game :D
Perhaps I'll modify the byte back when I make my own ROM haha.

So I'd most likely do this option, thanks for the suggestion!

Btw, Trax, I gave the disassembly of the dialogue boxes a read, but I cannot seem to get the hang of it. :/
The LDYs and all of the addresses with "($XXXX),y" really confuse me, I am but a mere noob at ASM and haven't really learned how to handle those (nor the LDX ones) xP
Could you give any clue on what I should be looking for to make the 7 lines change to the dialogue boxes, please?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 25, 2018, 09:19:37 pm
Come on, it's the last palace, it's supposed to be hard as hell. Great Palace = Great Difficulty...

As for the Fokkas. Yes, they are hard, but it's not like you hack your sword in all directions until they (or you) die. Like any other enemy, they have a pattern and you study the pattern to beat them.

I agree with Trax.  It makes me think of Iron Knuckles.  Iron Knuckles are very challenging to fight if you don't know what to do, but once you learn that (lame) jumping slash, they become no better an obstacle than a skeleton.  Fokkas are easy to kill, just like Iron Knuckles.  You just gotta learn how to do it, as Trax described in his post.  ;)

Speaking of jumping slash, I'd like to see a hack that removes it and makes Iron Knuckles even harder!  Mwa ha ha.   >:D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 25, 2018, 09:40:42 pm
Or give the Blue Ironknuckles a boatload of HP. LOL!

Good to see you post on this thread Ice Penguin.

The only thing I would like to see changed for all of you advanced hackers is to have all of the previous bosses from the 1st 6 palaces included in the Great Palace like other Zelda games. I'd like to see Hammerhead, Helmethead, Rebonack, Carock, Gooma, and Barba make an appearance in the Great Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 25, 2018, 11:57:37 pm
ShadowOne. Don't forget to make the changes for Bubbles in Palaces Type A, B and Great Palace. These are 3 distinct tables. Also, Fast and Slow. Also, Big Bubble in Great Palace, if you want to tweak this enemy too. As for the regeneration, what you did is correct. This is the structure table for that Attributes Table:

Code: [Select]
11541: Other Enemy Attributes (24 bytes) (6E41 in RAM)

x... .... Immune to Thunder Spell
.x.. .... Regenerates
..x. .... ? (never used)
...x .... Not hittable with sword
.... xxxx ? (0 or 6)

As for the town dialogues, I think what may elude hackers the most is the use of what I call "PPU Macros". To change tiles, most often background tiles, most game use macros that act as a "command" to tell the system what to change and where. It's usually in the 3xx part of RAM, starting at 301. The structure of the string that composes a macro is usually like this:

Code: [Select]
AA BB BB CC DD ... 0xFF
AA = Number of bytes to process (a single letter in a Zelda II dialog needs 5 bytes processed).
BB BB = Offset in RAM, usually in PPU space between 0000 and 1FFF. Big endian, so the most significant byte first.
CC = Number of tiles to draw, and whether you want to draw tiles horizontally or vertically (bit 7 set = draw vertically). I think bit 6 could be a Repeat flag. A letter drawn uses the value 82.
DD = Tile Codes to draw, as many as needed.
0xFF = End Byte. I think you can chain macros by starting another one instead of putting FF there. The value FF simply means "stop processing macros".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 26, 2018, 03:04:36 pm
Yep, I will update the tables for Temple A, B and Great Palace to match for the Bubbles in all their variants.
One question though, do they follow the same order for each one?
Like the table at 0x011551 has the order of the enemies listed before the table, but the one at 0x012A51 does not, neither does the one for the Great Palace at 0x15551. Just want to make sure the order is the same in terms of enemy listing.

As for the Dialog boxes, I tried to debug the RAM Address $301 and found out it calls this particular code:
Code: [Select]
LC11C                                                                          ;
ldx      bank7_table0,y                ; 0x1c12c $C11C BE 5D C0                ;
lda      #$00                          ; 0x1c12f $C11F A9 00                   ; A = 00
sta      $0301,x                       ; 0x1c131 $C121 9D 01 03                ;
lda      #$FF                          ; 0x1c134 $C124 A9 FF                   ; A = FF
sta      L0302,x                       ; 0x1c136 $C126 9D 02 03                ;
lda      $0725                         ; 0x1c139 $C129 AD 25 07                ;; PPU Macro Selector
The STAs there when running the "WELCOME TO RAURU" sign in the first town effectively store 05 in $301 and I believe 24 in $302. Am I in the right track?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 26, 2018, 11:48:51 pm
You are in the NMI routine, and it looks like a reset operation for the current frame. You should just stick to the code in bank 3. Your goal is to have the letter tile and the accent tile swapped. You also have to move down the offset one tile, so that you still start at the same first line as in the original setup, but have the letter tile at the top of the two-tile setup. This way, you only overwrite the tile under the "writing head", so it doesn't actually draw over anything since it's already empty.

If you start at F6DD, you'll see the code that sets the letter tile, the accent tile, and the macro to draw it. My disassembly has comments on the operations.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 27, 2018, 06:10:27 pm
Oh I do remember I did some changes there, but couldn't make much of it.
I am inclined to say this is the portion that I should be looking into:
Code: [Select]
adc      $048A                         ; 0xf736 $B726 6D 8A 04                 ; Letter Y Position offset
sta      $0303                         ; 0xf739 $B729 8D 03 03                 ;; Letter position when writing to screen
lda       !$03                         ; 0xf73c $B72C AD 03 00                 ;
adc      #$00                          ; 0xf73f $B72F 69 00                    ;
sta      L0302                         ; 0xf741 $B731 8D 02 03                 ;; Used when writing text to screen
lda      #$82                          ; 0xf744 $B734 A9 82                    ; A = 82
sta      $0304                         ; 0xf746 $B736 8D 04 03                 ;; Text memory offset?
stx      $0305                         ; 0xf749 $B739 8E 05 03                 ; tile above current letter
lda      #$FF                          ; 0xf74c $B73C A9 FF                    ; A = FF
sta      $0307                         ; 0xf74e $B73E 8D 07 03                 ;; Text memory offset?
lda      #$05                          ; 0xf751 $B741 A9 05                    ; A = 05
sta      $0301                         ; 0xf753 $B743 8D 01 03                 ;;ppu number of bytes following (counts both instructions and tile data values); Used when writing

I tried doing some modifications here, still no luck but I'm still trying.
Something interesting though, I modified this line here:

Code: [Select]
bcs      LB6E7                         ; 0xf6f1 $B6E1 B0 04                    ; skip to $F6E7

I changed the BCS $F6E7 [B0 04] to BCS $F6ED [B0 0A] and noticed that the tiles were now switched and the upper one wasn't being overwritten. Though it was all garbage data, but at least it switched tiles for a while lol.
I will keep looking into this in the meanwhile.

Thanks for all the help, @Trax, hope I am not being too much of a bother due to my serious lack of ASM knowledge.
It is very appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 01, 2018, 01:30:46 pm
@Trax - How much progress have you made on you new editor Sword 2 and your new Zelda 2 hack?

@ShadowOne - Thanks for your help with palettes. I've finally been effective with changing palettes. I haven't found everyone I need yet, but I'm getting there. I need the location to change palettes when Link uses magic and the palettes where Link uses Shield magic. I've found just about everything else I needed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 02:07:51 pm
Man I've been having quite the struggle with that Dialog box thing. XP
I haven't been able to get it working yet :/

I am still trying though, I can't give up with this if I want to have proper lengthy sentences to avoid being limited in text length.

@Trax - How much progress have you made on you new editor Sword 2 and your new Zelda 2 hack?

@ShadowOne - Thanks for your help with palettes. I've finally been effective with changing palettes. I haven't found everyone I need yet, but I'm getting there. I need the location to change palettes when Link uses magic and the palettes where Link uses Shield magic. I've found just about everything else I needed.
The colour for Link after the Shield spell is found at 0x000E9D.
In there you will see [A9 16], that's the LDA opcode that loads up the red palette once Link activates the Shield Spell.
Change the $16 to whatever other Hex ID of palette you desire.

What other palette do you need besides the one when Link uses Shield?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 02, 2018, 02:16:48 pm
Man I've been having quite the struggle with that Dialog box thing. XP
I haven't been able to get it working yet :/

I am still trying though, I can't give up with this if I want to have proper lengthy sentences to avoid being limited in text length.
The colour for Link after the Shield spell is found at 0x000E9D.
In there you will see [A9 16], that's the LDA opcode that loads up the red palette once Link activates the Shield Spell.
Change the $16 to whatever other Hex ID of palette you desire.

What other palette do you need besides the one when Link uses Shield?

I need the ones for when casts a spell that is NOT the SHIELD spell. It changes from the new color I have him back to the Green & Red.

I hope you are able to get the dialog box working. I'm sure it's quite the pain.

I'm still trying to find a way to fix my midair jump from being infinite to just 1 midair jump preferably 2 at most. That is a pain right now too.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 02, 2018, 05:35:03 pm
What's the exact size for text boxes that you're going for? Any other limitations?

I'd love to start work on rewriting the text to match the increased box size... Even if it's not done yet.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 06:34:09 pm
I need the ones for when casts a spell that is NOT the SHIELD spell. It changes from the new color I have him back to the Green & Red.

I hope you are able to get the dialog box working. I'm sure it's quite the pain.

I'm still trying to find a way to fix my midair jump from being infinite to just 1 midair jump preferably 2 at most. That is a pain right now too.
So you mean changing the colours of the flashes when you use the spells?

What's the exact size for text boxes that you're going for? Any other limitations?

I'd love to start work on rewriting the text to match the increased box size... Even if it's not done yet.
It's not the dialog box size I'm trying to change, but rather get rid of the empty tile above each line of text that gets printed.
This would make it so that we can have 7 lines of text instead of the normal 4.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 02, 2018, 06:45:51 pm
So ten characters wide, with seven rows?

I wish the width could be increased to like, 12, but I can't imagine that would be easy either!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 07:11:41 pm
I think someone mentioned this before, I think it was Trax or IcePenguin, but basically the conclusion was that it was much easier to get rid of the empty row of tiles that separates each text line to have 7 lines of text per dialog box, because increasing the size of the box itself proved to be quite problematic, both in ASM and palette stuff.

So, with that said, the solution given is what I'm trying to achieve at the moment, unsuccessful so far lol but still trying.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 02, 2018, 09:26:16 pm
@ShadowOne - When you use a spell that's not Shield, Link flashes and then he changes back into his Green and Red, but when you use SHIELD spell, Link flashes and then turns red. You were spot on about the Shield spell. I need the palettes for when he uses other spells. Somehow, I changed the red to black(don't know where I found it), but I have yet to find the green, so I can change it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 03, 2018, 04:38:59 am
I've been meaning to replay Zelda II patched to make it less frustrating and more fair, so it's great to see this topic.

My previous plan had been to double patch Zelda II with Njosro's Palace Patch:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3859/

And also tog's Easy patch:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1084/

However, this new patch as described in this thread already includes the Palace Patch. So... What are the main difference's to Tog's Easy Patch? They seem similar, for example magic costing less and enemies requiring less hits.

However, I very much like ShadowOne333's improvement of no lost EXP - that was supremely annoying in the original. Plus there's some graphic improvements and save improvements.

But at the same time, there's a lot of talk here suggesting changes to make the game MORE difficult in some ways. Increasing HP for some enemies, or putting a boss rush in the final palace. I utterly despise boss rushes in games - they're boring. I've beaten those bosses already, I literally never, ever want to see them again. They're done, a closed chapter, forget about them.

Also reverting to the AWFUL levelling system of the FDS original. Dear god no!! SCD said it was easier in the FDS version, but it absolutely was not.
Quote
When you save and quit, all three levels are reduced to the lowest one you had of any of the three upgrades (for example, if you had Lv. 8 Attack, Lv. 5 Magic, and Lv. 3 Life, they would all be reset to Level 3). In the NES version, all levels are always retained between sessions.


What the hell? Why would any of us want to revert to this broken system? I intend to play on a FlashCart with real saving, not Quick Saves on an emu, which would negate this problem. I don't want to level my Attack to 8, switch off, only to see all that EXP wasted and reduced down to 1 or 3 or whatever the lowest is.

That system is TERRIBLE. It forces you to level every single thing up one at a time, at the same time, and it prevents you from switching the game off until all three are at the same level. You've got AML up to levels 8, 7, and 6? Well sorry, you can't switch off until you also level up M and L as well.

The FDS levelling system is pure hot garbage since it wastes untold quantities of hard fought for EXP. It's like a TAX on saving your game. Want to save? Pay the tax man all the EXP you gained.

That's the kind of insanity Working Designs would pull.

PLEASE DO NOT REIMPLEMENT THE FDS LEVELLING SYSTEM. PLEASE. PLEASE.

We also went from a reduced 5 hits for the bubbles up to 10, even though I personally would have been cool with just 1 hit (they're bubbles, they should pop easily). At least that's what I read when speed skimming through this thread, not sure if the 10 was actually implemented.

So now I'm conflicted. I do like this new patch, but it's starting to get weird, and complicated, and harder than the original game in some small ways?

What if I mixed all 3 patches together?

Should I just wait for a more final version of this patch?

I basically want the Palace Patch, plus the main game to be easier, more fair, actually winnable, but without any nonsense like "getting more EXP" and then rebalancing that with enemies who have more HP. I find this is the problem with pretty much every single improvement patch for all games. It starts leaning in one direction, so to rebalance that it goes in the opposite direction, and we end up with a weird mess which is frustrating.



Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 03, 2018, 07:53:17 am
PLEASE DO NOT REIMPLEMENT THE FDS LEVELLING SYSTEM. PLEASE. PLEASE.

We also went from a reduced 5 hits for the bubbles up to 10, even though I personally would have been cool with just 1 hit (they're bubbles, they should pop easily). At least that's what I read when speed skimming through this thread, not sure if the 10 was actually implemented.

Agreed on the leveling and not going too far with implementing new things for its own sake I guess, but it's not in the OP so I don't think it's going in?

The issue with the bubbles is high exp gain for little effort and farming opportunities, while tougher enemies sometimes give poor rewards.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on May 03, 2018, 08:14:15 am
the reality is your never gonna please everyone. everyone has there own taste own ideas of what made the game great and what made it bad. I think you're suggestion to yourself RetroProf is probably the best in that you could amalgamate all the things you want in your own version. its not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 03, 2018, 09:41:05 am
If popularity is a goal, ShadowOne should shape the hack around the most common criticisms of the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 03, 2018, 10:11:44 am
@RetroProf:
If it's not stated in the OP, it hasn't been implemented/planned at the moment.
I originally wanted to implement the Easy patch into this, but I feel like there are way too many changes in that patch which makes the game too much of an "Easy" thing all the way, which is why I preferred to only focus on changes to certain enemies, and not all of them, mainly the most obnoxious ones to make the game more enjoyable and not too much of a hassle.

I also implemented some changes to the Magic consumption, because in the original the magic barely even lasted if you used 2-3 spells in a row.

First and foremost, I want this patch to tackle the most annoying aspects of Zelda II, rework them in a way that feels fair and balanced, to make the overall experience a better trip all the way throughout.
Right now, you can test the patch in the OP, should be the latest so far (without the palette changes yet).
Try it out and let me know what do you think of it.

If at all, at the end you can still patch the Easy patch over this one, I haven't repointed anything related to enemies or magic consumption, which is what the Easy patch focuses on.
I haven't done changes to the levelling system at all, it isn't pointed in the OP I believe, so at the moment no plans until I get through the Dialog box to have more lines of text, and the palettes for Link and some NPCs (I really don't like the pink $36 palette for almost every skin tone, I feel $37 fits way better).

Quote
So now I'm conflicted. I do like this new patch, but it's starting to get weird, and complicated, and harder than the original game in some small ways?
What do you mean by this?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 03, 2018, 10:22:19 am
It's true. You can't please everyone which is why most people when creating heir hacks have a targeted group in mind whether it's fans of the original game who thought it was easy or trying to wheel in people who like the original but thought it was too hard or those in between.

I think ShadowOne's hack does make the game easier and a bit more fair, so those who thought the original was too hard should be able to complete this game. If you think this game is too hard, you should try The Battle Of Olympus. That's a game that would make you rage quit!  :laugh:

@RetroProf - What about the game comes across as hard for you? If it's certain enemies, it could be simply the way you're fighting them, and we can inform you of tactics you can use to win.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 03, 2018, 10:27:00 am
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on May 03, 2018, 10:38:57 am
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die

hehe just cast jump the room becomes significantly easier
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Sinis on May 03, 2018, 12:17:14 pm
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die


This statement I can fully relate with  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 03, 2018, 02:51:27 pm
What do you mean by this?

Oh, don't worry about it. I wasn't focusing on the OP. My statement was based on reading various suggestions to add or subtract things, and I started getting this feeling that this Redux patch will end up being a chimera or random and possibly conflicting suggestions. A few suggestions by different posters made it seem to me as if some parts of the game would get harder. Based solely on what's been done in the OP, it actually so far sounds like precisely what I want (Palace Patch + easier). I'll be updating my flash cart after this post.

And thank you for doing this. :)

If you think this game is too hard, you should try The Battle Of Olympus. That's a game that would make you rage quit!  :laugh:

@RetroProf - What about the game comes across as hard for you?

I actually completed Battle of Olympus a couple years back on original hardware with passwords. Apart from the very last area and boss, I found it quite manageable. Even easy? Though I did use an older version of this patch which rebalanced the olives (the one I used rebalanced the olives, but did not have SRAM support):
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3600/

If I recall correctly, you had infinite continues, which allowed you to respawn at the start of a tough area, allowing you learn the patterns quickly.

The two things I found difficult about the original Zelda II:
1) Returning to the starting area after losing a life. Now that is rage quit inducing.

2) Getting stun locked from so many enemies and projectiles. I have recollections of hitting one projectile, getting knocked back, and then hitting another one before I'd even had time to readjust myself or move out of the way. Notable examples being along the wooden walls with enemies at the top, and platforming outside over bridges/rock formations with bubbles floating up, and lava areas in dungeons. Link would rebound around like a pong brick.

I completed Zelda II, but on a Dreamcast with continuous use of quick saves. At times every second or two.

I liked the surreal dichotomy between overworld and side-dungeons, but the difficulty was brutal. I would never have bothered to play it as a kid with the original cartridge.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 04, 2018, 10:55:13 am
I actually completed Battle of Olympus a couple years back on original hardware with passwords. Apart from the very last area and boss, I found it quite manageable. Even easy? Though I did use an older version of this patch which rebalanced the olives (the one I used rebalanced the olives, but did not have SRAM support):
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3600/

If I recall correctly, you had infinite continues, which allowed you to respawn at the start of a tough area, allowing you learn the patterns quickly.

The two things I found difficult about the original Zelda II:
1) Returning to the starting area after losing a life. Now that is rage quit inducing.

2) Getting stun locked from so many enemies and projectiles. I have recollections of hitting one projectile, getting knocked back, and then hitting another one before I'd even had time to readjust myself or move out of the way. Notable examples being along the wooden walls with enemies at the top, and platforming outside over bridges/rock formations with bubbles floating up, and lava areas in dungeons. Link would rebound around like a pong brick.

I completed Zelda II, but on a Dreamcast with continuous use of quick saves. At times every second or two.

I liked the surreal dichotomy between overworld and side-dungeons, but the difficulty was brutal. I would never have bothered to play it as a kid with the original cartridge.

Battle Of Olympus did have unlimited continues, but losing half of your olives was brutal especially when you were trying to buy the Divine Sword or Ares Bracelet or the Salamander Shield. To me Battle Of Olympus was much more difficult, but I still enjoyed it. I want to hack it, but there isn't enough tools out there for a newcomer like me, so I'm going to wait a while before trying it. As far as boss characters, Hades was more fun to fight than Dark Link.

Zelda 2 was more about figure out enemy patterns and once you did, the game was rather easy in my opinion. I tried to keep things balanced in my hack of Zelda 2 but at the same time give more purpose to some items like the boots. https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/ (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 04, 2018, 05:44:47 pm
@ultimaweapon:

I now understand what you meant with the Spell palette thing.
I just hit the same problem with it.

So, when you try to use any Spell, Link seems to revert back to the original palette [18 36 2A], or in the case of the Shield Spell [18 36 16], (changing the green tunic $2A for $16).

It seems like the game is grabbing the 18, 36 and 2A colours from somewhere else, so I gave the ROM an extensive search, but guess what?
I already changed ALL of the instances where the palette could be found [18 36] and there are no more instances of those two in the ROM, so I am not sure yet where does the game grab the original palette to begin with.

I'm inclined to say that it might be related to the Spell Casting routine which begins at 0x000DD3 and ends at 0x000E4A (with a branch to $1245-$1254), but I haven't found anything yet.

I'll let you know if I find anything, as I am still trying to debug the Dialog box thing as well :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 05, 2018, 12:07:04 am
For Link's palette after a spell, look for RAM $70F. If I remember correctly, it contains 0x16 if Shield is in effect. It may be relevant.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 05, 2018, 04:25:39 am
OK, I've been playing this patch and am up to the 3-eye hidden dungeon. I've been using a FlashCart with custom mappers, on an NTSC-U machine at 60Hz, running through yellow & white A/V cables on a PAL CRT television which can accept NTSC signals.

Here are my impressions:

I love it. The changes feel natural. It's actually kind of amazing how right all of the small quality of life changes feel. I had to check the original game to remind me.

* The text speed up is perfect - I can't believe we've all been playing the slow version all these years. On actual hardware the sound is great. It reminds me of the fire sound effect for the fire wand, a bit. Like the words are being burned onto the screen.

* Magic - the rebalanced magic feels just right. Again, I wonder how the dev team came to the decision to make it so expensive in the first place, because this feels so much more natural. It allows me to use SHIELD and FIRE spells more regularly, but the LIFE spell is still just expensive enough to prevent over-use. Also, the magic drops now add a real tactical advantage. When I see a red one, I immediately got to my menu and use all the spells I can, powering myself, before refilling the meter.

Importantly, this has allowed me to reach the 3-eye dungeon comfortably. I game overed 8 times so far, and my level ups are Attack 7, Magic 7, Life 8.

* I didn't notice much rebalancing, apart from the skull bubbles. But I haven't played in years. The skull bubble rebalancing is great because it actually allowed me to farm them a little bit in a couple of dungeons when I was 500 EXP away from a level up, but on my last life before the boss. So I'd level up, then either fight the boss, or game over and restart outside.

* The blue around the hearts looks really, really nice on actual hardware and a CRT. :) (See my palette comments below)

As this stands, it's perfectly sufficient for me if you don't make any more changes. I'd feel satisfied completing the game like this. Though obviously you want this to be the ultimate redux, so well done on doing all this.

Fight on good sir!


SUGGESTIONS
These are just things which bugged me. Ignore or consider as you wish.

* Magic deselecting itself after use. This is annoying, especially early in the game with SHIELD, where you basically want to use it in each room you enter.

* Beeping - I am cool with the health beeping! It's not so annoying and it keeps me alert. However, I tremendously dislike the beep for getting EXP. It sounds similar to the health beeping, especially when you get two EXP gains in quick succession. This causes a Pavlovian response in me whereupon I think my health is at critical levels. Usually it's in the thick of action where I'm felling lots of enemies (maybe easy blobs) while also fending off and taking damage from the bigger armoured knights or skeletons, when there's multiple enemies in a room. On more than one occasion I've incorrectly thought "Crap! Health is low!" and hit the Select button to use my LIFE spell, only to discover I nearly had full health.

Any chance of changing the tone of the EXP beep, or removing it altogether? Considering how much EXP grinding one does, the EXP beep gets very annoying.

* It would be nice if all enemies gave EXP. Even the kobolds (white headed rat/wolf enemies), and Moblins. Sure they're one-hit kills, and their original function was to induce fear by stealing EXP, but considering that level ups soon cost 2000 or 5000 a pop, I doubt anyone is going to farm kobolds if they gave 2 EXP. However, psychologically that little floating "2" will feel nicer than getting literally zero reward for swinging a sword. (I blame modern game design which has conditioned me to want prizes for every action. I want those prizes!)

* Would it be possible to keep one's EXP when saving using the controller trick, as opposed to a game over? I forgot how annoying it is to have 3500 EXP, away from a 5000 level up, and needing to turn the game off. Obviously one should be penalised when getting game over, by losing EXP, but saving normally? Obviously those emulating won't have this problem, it's exclusive to real hardware. Is the SRAM even capable of recording this, or would it require heavy recoding?

* Someone else mentioned it, but I also find it annoying that you might have 5800 EXP after beating the boss, and you basically waste all your EXP when placing the crystal. You should really get a free level up and then keep all the EXP you previously had. The game is hard enough as it is - cutting out some of the pointless grinding for EXP would not be a bad thing. Is this possible? So far I've been going back to farm skull bubbles before actually placing the crystal if I was a few hundred away.

* Regarding fixing the localisation, I have not read the page you link to, however, I think the following would be good:
- A clue revealing that Bagu is hiding in an invisible square in the swamp. I had to check online for this, and discovered other players have the same problem, wondering how anyone back in the day would find him without a guide. Someone in the river town really should tell you to find the hermit hiding in the swamp. One poster online joked that he thought Bagu was the town mayor, in hiding due to Ganon's "eyes" in the town, and that's why his note has the clout to persuade the bridge guard.
- Is there a clue for finding the water of life? I only found it by accident because someone said there's magic in a cave in some swamp. So I went back to that cave blocked by a rock in the firs swamp, and found the water of life in there. Not sure if this clue was referring to an actual cave with actual magic upgrade, or they meant water of life. But either way, it'd be nice if there was an obvious clue to "curative water" or "healing water" so people know how to cure the sick child.
- The kidnapped child clue is a bit rubbish. They say the child has been taken and is on an island. At first I thought they meant the maze island (which they do), but I could not find him. So I play the dungeon, I get the boots, and then I leave and walk to the Ocean Palace, which is also on an island, and I conclude: "Aha! This must be where the child is!" When in fact, no, the child is on maze island hidden to the south east. I had to use a guide for this after many hours of fruitless searching. Would be nice is the clue was a bit more on the nose - "The child is hidden in the maze on the island" or whatever fits.

Remember, anyone coming to this game for the first time in the current era, won't have copies of Nintendo Power, or necessarily friends playing it at the same time to help. They will only have in-game clues, or FAQs online which kind of spoil the experience.

* Any chance of assembly coding a map system into the game? The original Metroid on NES, and also Simon's Quest, both had map systems inserted into them, and they both work pretty damn well! I was astounded at how good the Metroid map is.

* Any chance of making the cave system easier to navigate? I managed to get through on trial and error, but it is kinda annoying. Not removing the maze, just... I dunno. Maybe having a letter or bit of text at the entrance/exit so you can keep track better?


REGARDING THE PALETTE

Please consider providing two patches, one with and one without the graphical changes. As any NES fan will know, the system does not natively output RGB, and there are various emulators which provide different types of palette. Basically what I'm seeing is not what everyone else is seeing, and vice versa.

To be honest, at first I thought the patch included the palette changes already - and then I checked a clean ROM and discovered everything looked the same.

Also, there is artefacting and natural blending of vertical lines on actual hardware. The easiest way to see this is load the original Zelda. See the two item boxes? The vertical columns look like they are twirling, like blue pieces of fusilli.

In Zelda 2, this inherent artefact causes an interesting "colour shimmer" on the roofs of houses when walking - as the screen scrolls the colours blend and artefact, and it seems to create artificial pseudo "extra colours", which resemble "dirty patches" on the roofs. Basically I still stick with the original NES, because I've yet to find an emulator filter which replicates these quirks which you find on CRT TVs.

Random evidence I googled:
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=7261 (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=7261)

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Famicom_Color_Palette (http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Famicom_Color_Palette)

http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html (http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html)

https://me.me/i/what-indie-developers-think-what-retro-games-actually-retro-games-5973719 (https://me.me/i/what-indie-developers-think-what-retro-games-actually-retro-games-5973719)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

I can also try to put a photo of my TV screen up. But looking at all the posted screenshots in this thread, they do not match what I see.

For me Link does not look like this on my TV:
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Legend_of_Zelda_2_The_Adventure_of_Link_NES_ScreenShot4.gif)

He actually already looks more like this, but with grungy pixelation around the edges:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2me47zr.png)

The browns are all darker, and the sky outside is much, much lighter than in emulated screens. This might also be related to my CRT TV settings.


CLOSING THOUGHTS
I've nearly finished the game anyway, so any further changes probably won't affect me.

So I'd like to say thank you for doing this and allowing me to go through the game again, properly, without quick saves, and enjoy the experience at the same time. It's been a lot of fun so far.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 06, 2018, 06:23:49 pm
Okay guys, I think I know what I'll be doing next.
I already gave the text a try, and I can repoint the text to some free space near the $F000 address for text boxes which are somewhat short.

So what I can do right now is expand any text box that has between 1-3 lines up to 4 lines of text in the textbox.

Now what I'd like you guys to help me out with, is to determine which lines of dialogue sound odd, cryptic or out of place, so that I know which ones to focus on and rework them properly.

Here's the comparison list with a retranslation from the Japanese text to English and also comparing it to the default English translation:
http://www.glitterberri.com/adventure-of-link/retranslation/

With that said, if you guys have any specific suggestion for a line or something, let me know.
Just take into consideration that the text boxes have the following limitations:
  • Only 10 characters per row/line
  • Only 4 lines/rows per text box

So to accommodate any retranslated text, we have to remember that we can only write up to 40 characters (10 per row) in any given text box.
That is the only limitation at the moment, unless I find a way to expand the text box to some other width (hopefully at least 15 chars).

Please, let me know any text changes suggestions you may have!

I'm working on some translation stuff now..

Any idea how this line has 11 characters? It would really make things easier to have an additional character per row.
(https://i.imgur.com/M5bxPNY.png)

Here's what I've done so far with 10x7:
Code: [Select]
OLD:
EACH TOWN
HAS A WISE
MAN. LEARN
FROM HIM.

NEW:
EACH TOWN
HAS A WISE
MAN WHO
WILL TEACH
YOU MAGIC.

OLD:
FIND THE
HEART IN
SOUTHERN
PARAPA.

NEW:
THE SHORE
SOUTH OF
PARAPA
TEMPLE HAS
A HEART
CONTAINER.

ONLY THE
HAMMER CAN
DESTROY A
ROADBLOCK.

NEW:
IF YOU
HAVE A
HAMMER YOU
CAN BREAK
THE ROCKS
THAT BLOCK
THE WAY..

OLD:
GET CANDLE
IN PARAPA
PALACE.
GO WEST.

NEW:
THE CANDLE
IN PARAPA
TEMPLE CAN
LIGHT THE
WESTERN
TUNNEL.

OLD:
GORIYA OF
TANTARI
STOLE OUR
TORPHY.

NEW:
THE GORIYA
IN TANTARI
DESERT HAS
STOLEN OUR
GODDESS
STATUE.

OLD:
YOU SAVED
THE TROPHY
COME SEE
MY UNCLE.

NEW:
OH! YOU'VE
GOT OUR
STATUE!
COME TALK
TO MY
GRANDPA!

OLD:
IN PARAPA
DESERT USE
THIS MAGIC
TO SURVIVE

NEW:
THE TEMPLE
IS IN THE
PARAPA
DESERT.
PROTECT
YOURSELF
WITH THIS.

OLD:
I CANNOT
HELP YOU
ANYMORE.
GO NOW.

NEW:
I DON'T
HAVE ANY
MORE TO
TELL YOU.
GO NOW,
AND BE SAFE.

OLD:
HAMMER...
SPECTACLE
ROCK...
DEATH MTN.

NEW:
THERE IS A
SACRED
HAMMER
SOUTH OF
DEATH
MOUNTAIN.

OLD:
DO NOT GO
SOUTH
WITHOUT A
CANDLE.

NEW:
IT IS TOO
DANGEROUS
SOUTH OF
TOWN IF
YOU LACK
A CANDLE.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 06, 2018, 11:59:59 pm
Ultima. Yes, my editor is progressing. I think most of the Side View edition works correctly. I just discovered a stupid flaw in my Overworld editor, a variable that was not correctly known at the time, but for some reason, it took me a long time before realizing the UI controls are not a correct representation of the bits in one of the Key Area tables. Even though it was sitting just before my eyes. There is a distinct value for the Region and the World (those names may be confusing, but they are just a convention) where a Key Area leads to. For years, my editor considered the two bit fields as one value.

Next I'll be working on a robust save function, where hopefully the new data will use the free space in an optimal fashion.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 07, 2018, 12:24:14 pm
- A clue revealing that Bagu is hiding in an invisible square in the swamp. I had to check online for this, and discovered other players have the same problem, wondering how anyone back in the day would find him without a guide. Someone in the river town really should tell you to find the hermit hiding in the swamp. One poster online joked that he thought Bagu was the town mayor, in hiding due to Ganon's "eyes" in the town, and that's why his note has the clout to persuade the bridge guard.

Bagu's location is hinted at in-game. There's a Bot in one of the houses in Saria that will tell you its "master is N of river" if you pester it enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 07, 2018, 01:11:33 pm
For Link's palette after a spell, look for RAM $70F. If I remember correctly, it contains 0x16 if Shield is in effect. It may be relevant.
Wasn't exactly at $070F, but it did helped out to find the related addresses. Thanks!
Also, I think I managed to pin down something in your disassembly which wasn't exactly labelled, I'll explain in a bit.

@ultimaweapon:

Here we go, dude.
The related bit of code which manages what colours are set after the Spell flash are found here:

Code: [Select]
L927C                                                                          ;
lda      $69CE,y                       ; 0x128c $927C B9 CE 69                 ;
sta      $0306,x                       ; 0x128f $927F 9D 06 03                 ;
lda      $69D4,y                       ; 0x1292 $9282 B9 D4 69                 ;
sta      $0307,x                       ; 0x1295 $9285 9D 07 03                 ;
lda      $69DA,y                       ; 0x1298 $9288 B9 DA 69                 ;
sta      $0308,x                       ; 0x129b $928B 9D 08 03                 ;
lda      $074B                         ; 0x129e $928E AD 4B 07                 ;; Spell Flash Counter (bit 7 set = decor flash)
asl                                    ; 0x12a1 $9291 0A                       ;
bcs      L9296                         ; 0x12a2 $9292 B0 02                    ;
ldy      #$04                          ; 0x12a4 $9294 A0 04                    ; Y = 04

What we need to focus on, is the series of LDA/STAs which load from RAM addresses in $69CE, $69D4 and $69DA, and then store the values in RAM $0306, $0307 and $0308.
I took a look at the RAM addresses starting at $69CE, and found out that it is loading a set of palettes which were currently labelled only as "Some_Palette" in the disassembly:

Code: [Select]
Table_for_Some_Palettes                                                        ;
.byt    $12,$16,$2A,$16,$0F,$0F,$30,$01; 0x2a00 $A9F0 12 16 2A 16 0F 0F 30 01  ;
.byt    $31,$01,$18,$01,$12,$21,$30,$21; 0x2a08 $A9F8 31 01 18 01 12 21 30 21  ;
.byt    $36,$21,$30,$01,$31,$01,$2A,$11; 0x2a10 $AA00 36 21 30 01 31 01 2A 11  ;

See the $18 and $36 at locations 0x002A0A and 0x002A10 respectively?
That's the $18 for the brown colour of Link at 0x002A0A, and the $36 for the skin colour of Link at 0x002A10.
Change these two to your liking, and reload the game completely to test out the changes. DO NOT LOAD a save state, as this will load the previous values before the change, you have to get to gameplay directly from a fresh restart to see the changes take effect.
You can also modify the $2A found at 0x002A16, as this is the $2A that Link uses for his green tunic in game.

That's one less thing to worry about :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 09, 2018, 08:23:20 am
@ShadowOne - I'm going to try that on my lunch. Good thing I have a copy of my work on a flash drive.  :laugh:
I figured between you and Trax, one of you would figure it out!  Any more luck with the dialog box?

@Trax - I'm eager to see your new work. I have a mac emulator all ready to go once you launch it. LOL

@Shadic - I like the text changes you're looking to implement. Will all those changes fit in the limited space allotted?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 09, 2018, 09:10:57 am
@Shadic - I like the text changes you're looking to implement. Will all those changes fit in the limited space allotted?
Thanks!

I'm not sure of a maximum size limit, but they'll all fix in the 10 wide, 7 rows of text limitation that ShadowOne33 provided.

Though I am still curious about if the line width is ten, or actually eleven...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 09, 2018, 09:53:16 am
Thanks!

I'm not sure of a maximum size limit, but they'll all fix in the 10 wide, 7 rows of text limitation that ShadowOne33 provided.

Though I am still curious about if the line width is ten, or actually eleven...

I think it's really 10 but in some areas can count for an 11th if it's just a punctuation. Don't quote me on that yet. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 10, 2018, 03:54:29 pm
@ShadowOne - I'm going to try that on my lunch. Good thing I have a copy of my work on a flash drive.  :laugh:
I figured between you and Trax, one of you would figure it out!  Any more luck with the dialog box?

No luck yet :(
I've been around and around what I think it's bits of code that might be related to the empty row of tiles form the Dialog boxes, but no luck so far.
I am feeling inclined to ask Trax for some help again, since I can't figure it out yet.

May 14, 2018, 05:32:29 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well seems like I successfully modified the palettes the way I wanted them.
Link now has the new palette and he seems to be keeping it after a spell is used.
I also took the liberty to modify the townsfolk skin tone to a more lighter shade, instead of the pinkish one.
Looks way nicer imo.

Though I don't have a functional IPS patch yet, since the text boxes are broken still.
Well, not broken, but I still have the empty tile row overwriting the above one.

@Trax, I really don't want to be a bother, but I am really hitting the wall hard here xP
I can't seem to find a way to effectively make the text box print 7 lines without overwriting the above one.
Could you please lend a helping hand to this poor soul?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 14, 2018, 10:20:16 pm
I think you suffered long enough :P . At least, you put an honest effort, and I think it's what matters.

Here's the recipe, with 4 changes:

Code: [Select]
F66A: 69 40 ADC #$40 -> F66A: 69 20 ADC #$20
F6F6: 8D 0603 STA $0306 -> F6F6: 8D 0503 STA $0305
F739: 8E 0503 STX $0305 -> F739: 8E 0603 STX $0306

And to have the text start one line lower:

F619: A9 00 LDA #$00 -> F619: A9 20 LDA #$20

In brief, what this does is: add 0x20 to the Name Table address offset (RAM 48A for Y offset) instead of 0x40 when a line break happens, swap the values set to 305 and 306, and start the first line at offset 0x20 instead of 0 (RAM 489 for X offset).

Now, for the complete explanations. When you deal with background tiles, like in this case, you have understand the concept of Name Tables. Those are memory spaces in PPU RAM that determine every tile code that is drawn on screen. They are layered out on a 0x20 x 0x1C matrix, which is enough to cover the entire sreen. Name Table 0 starts at 0x2000 in PPU RAM (not CPU RAM, it would be an invalid address anyway). Name Table 1 at 0x2400. The NES allows up to 4 Name Tables, but Zelda II uses 2, for horizontal scrolling in Side View mode. I'm not sure what setup is used for Overworld, though.

When a text box is being drawn, some weird arthmetic is done to determine where in the Name Table(s) the initial offset of the box, and then the first text letter, will be. Most of the time, you are somewhere between the boundaries of the 2 Name Tables, because you are not either on the extreme left or right of the current area. This part is done somewhere else and is not modified for this hack. However, little aparté, it's what makes it so hard to actually modify the text box size.

Because a Name Table is 0x20 (32 decimal) tiles wide (the number of tiles you can have in a horizontal row that covers the entire width of the screen), adding 0x20 to the Name Table offset address is the equivalent of going exactly one tile down on the screen. Adding 0x40 will go down 2 tiles. Hence, the change from 0x40 to 0x20 at F66A in the code. Of course, if you only do that (and that's probably what ShadowOne tried), the first line will draw okay, but the second line will erase the previous one. That's because each letter that is drawn is actually two tiles high, to account for the eventual accent tile, which is not needed in English, but is in Japanese.

If you swap the two tiles (letter and accent tiles), you effectively write the letter in the UPPER part of the two-tile group, and the lower part is always en empty tile, which only deletes what's below the current line being drawn. And that, we don't care, because there's nothing there to begin with. The only caveat is that if we draw up to the last line, we will delete the lower border of the text box. That's why we can't have 8 lines, only 7.

The tile codes in 305 and 306 represent, respectively, the accent character (the upper tile), and the letter character (the lower tile), in the PPU Macro we discussed earlier in this thread. If we put the letter in 305 and the accent in 306, we get the result we want, without having lines of text deleted in the process.

So that's it. I can show you a screenshot of what it's supposed to look like using one of Shadic's new translations. Or I can let ShadowOne do the honors. By the way, if you really don't want to touch any border of the text box, then you are actually limited to 6 lines of text. But you can use the last line if you think it's esthetically acceptable. The original game uses the bottom line.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 01:05:56 pm
Oh wow @Trax, thank you SO much for the very detailed information, it certainly helped out a lot to understand how each bit of change worked and what it did for the end result.

I was SO close with the changes in the $0305 and $0306 addresses, but I was changing 303 and 304 haha, I never thought about changing those two :(
Oh and btw, the addresses you wrote are not PC addresses, but rather the NES addresses.
The PC addresses for those are:
Code: [Select]
0x00F629: A9 00 LDA #$00 -> 0x00F629: A9 20 LDA #$20
0x00F67A: 69 40 ADC #$40 -> 0x00F67A: 69 20 ADC #$20
0x00F706: 8D 06 03 STA $0306 -> 0x00F706: 8D 05 03 STA $0305
0x00F749: 8E 05 03 STX $0305 -> 0x00F749: 8E 06 03 STX $0306
Just for those that would like to find the code through a Hex editor :)


So, here is the latest patch with the palettes and new dialog box changes :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0



And here's a little example I made out of the sign in Rauru :P

(https://imgur.com/kqo663k.png)

Thank you SO much, Trax, seriously.
That was of great help to be able to expand the text and be able to have a little more liberty with the text instead of being limited to what he had previously.

I will start redoing some bits of text once I am done with the balancing of some more enemies :)
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: TheFireRed on May 16, 2018, 02:39:28 pm
So, here is the latest patch with the palettes and new dialog box changes :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Congrats on your project and your effort so far! I wanted to test this patch it seems to do nothing. I used both FLIPS and LIPS and the checksum of the patched file matches with the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 16, 2018, 03:26:31 pm
That looks great! It's amazing what just removing the dakuten spaces can do to get you a little extra space.

You have already sped up the text drawing speed, right? It'd make sense, because Japanese is read and parsed more slowly than English as a result of being able to convey more with fewer characters.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 04:23:01 pm
You have already sped up the text drawing speed, right? It'd make sense, because Japanese is read and parsed more slowly than English as a result of being able to convey more with fewer characters.
That is correct :)
The text drawing speed has already been sped up.
This so that it doesn't take ages just to load "HELLO!" unto the screen xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 16, 2018, 04:50:03 pm
Now that looks awesome ShadowOne!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 16, 2018, 05:32:12 pm
I just tried the latest patch and it would seem nothing was changed. Did you link the wrong patch or make a mistake in making it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 05:35:47 pm
I just tried the latest patch and it would seem nothing was changed. Did you link the wrong patch or make a mistake in making it?
It might have been a mistake on my part.
Could you try again?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 16, 2018, 10:42:14 pm
It might have been a mistake on my part.
Could you try again?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Cool. It's working great now. The fast text is nice, though the spacing between lines is a little too tight. Maybe a pixel or two space might look better, unless it's for other reasons, like fixing up the translation. 

It felt satisfying yet surprising to kill a Bubble with ease. The hearts look great.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am
@ShadowOne - With your update to the dialog box, I'm hoping I can create some better messages than those default messages. BTW, I haven't tried those pallette color changes yet, but  I will try tonight and let you know if that was the right location.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 17, 2018, 09:59:48 am
unless it's for other reasons, like fixing up the translation.
That's exactly the main reason why I wanted to get this working, and thanks to the great help of Trax now it's possible :)
Now I can repoint the text and rework the translation to better fit a more adequate localization.
Bagu will be Bug and I may keep the Error guy too, because those are as iconic as they get :P
But the rest of the text might see a lift-up in translation.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 20, 2018, 08:51:18 pm
Rodimus. It's impossible to change the distance between lines of text, because they are part of the background, and background tiles are layered out as a matrix of 8x8 pixels tiles. There is no "in-between".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 21, 2018, 09:55:09 am
Rodimus. It's impossible to change the distance between lines of text, because they are part of the background, and background tiles are layered out as a matrix of 8x8 pixels tiles. There is no "in-between".

Oh ok. I wasn't aware but I was merely pointing it out how it looks visually speaking. Either way, it's awesome that this game will get the TLC it so rightly deserves.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on May 21, 2018, 12:59:43 pm
And about the moving water and lava animations on the Overworld, is there any progress? Apparently other hacks like "Journey of a Day", "Leaf of Inertia" and "Shadow of Night" have already achieved this effect. But great work this hack too. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 21, 2018, 05:10:18 pm
And about the moving water and lava animations on the Overworld, is there any progress? Apparently other hacks like "Journey of a Day", "Leaf of Inertia" and "Shadow of Night" have already achieved this effect. But great work this hack too. :thumbsup:
Not yet.
That's something I still haven't even looked at, not attempted in any way.
That and the possible restoration of the Dragon Quest reference are still way down in the list of things to do, and perhaps even need help with, but we'll see :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 22, 2018, 08:02:32 am
Not yet.
That's something I still haven't even looked at, not attempted in any way.
That and the possible restoration of the Dragon Quest reference are still way down in the list of things to do, and perhaps even need help with, but we'll see :)

I know you said you were planning to reach out to JaSp outside of RHDN to see how to do it. It would be pretty cool to see how it's done.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on May 22, 2018, 05:16:40 pm
Jeez, you would have quite a long list to work through. I was surprised that even with having such a long list of things to add that you added in this text box fix that I hadn't even considered. Additional lines of fast loading dialog will make a lot of difference in the future of this hack. You can actually write a bit of story. Are you able to have multiple text boxes in succession so you could have a character of importance actually tell you a lengthy story? If so I have a lot of suggestions that could really make a difference in game. I'm glad either way that you're tackling the foundation of the game early on. It'll make things easier in the long run.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 24, 2018, 09:56:54 am
I know you said you were planning to reach out to JaSp outside of RHDN to see how to do it. It would be pretty cool to see how it's done.
I did try to reach him through an email I found in one of the sites linked to him, though I am not sure if he checks the mail often, nor if he still has that account.
Do you have any other idea as to where I could contact him?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 24, 2018, 05:41:59 pm
Unfortunately know. Trax or IcePenguin might know. I'm trying to go through the code of Shadow Of Night to see if there are any clues there. You, Trax, Njosro, IcePenguin are much better than me. Maybe you can figure something out looking through the code for Shadow Of Night.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 25, 2018, 09:55:55 pm
Oh well, if someone knows a way to contact him, please tell me so through PM.
This last week has been somewhat slow on this project because work's got me by the ballz, but after this Saturday things should resume to a stable basis :P

I am currently working on two hacking projects, this and another one
The other one I haven't mentioned publicly yet, and that one has seen priority due to a recent development made past month, which opened up the doors to the project I had in mind for years which can now become a reality.

I will still continue with this one here and there, so expect sporadic updates on this one :)
Next up should be enemies, right now I am thinking on adding Experience points to all enemies, even those that do not give you anything in vanilla Zelda II (though they will still give low Exp), so now killing enemies should not feel as meh as before.

Right now only the Bubbles and the Mother Fokka's have been edited to make the way through them a more enjoyable experience, and if you guys have any suggestions, drop them here, and I'll take them into consideration for rebalancing :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 25, 2018, 10:27:56 pm
Oh well, if someone knows a way to contact him, please tell me so through PM.
This last week has been somewhat slow on this project because work's got me by the ballz, but after this Saturday things should resume to a stable basis :P

I am currently working on two hacking projects, this and another one
The other one I haven't mentioned publicly yet, and that one has seen priority due to a recent development made past month, which opened up the doors to the project I had in mind for years which can now become a reality.

I will still continue with this one here and there, so expect sporadic updates on this one :)
Next up should be enemies, right now I am thinking on adding Experience points to all enemies, even those that do not give you anything in vanilla Zelda II (though they will still give low Exp), so now killing enemies should not feel as meh as before.

Right now only the Bubbles and the Mother Fokka's have been edited to make the way through them a more enjoyable experience, and if you guys have any suggestions, drop them here, and I'll take them into consideration for rebalancing :)

I'm working on a new Zelda 2 project myself. I also have another game I'm going to start on shortly. I do have an idea or 2 for you, but I'll pm those to you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 28, 2018, 02:09:39 pm
Quick question, ultimaweapon.

I'm going through the enemy attribute tables, editing both the Experience steal and Experience points bits, but I can't remember at the moment...
Do I need to edit something else in order to have the proper Experience points show up when you kill the enemy?
I can't recall at the moment.

I haven't finished the table yet, so I haven't looked into it, but it struck me as I was going through it.


EDIT:
Huh well, from what I can tell I think you don't need to edit the Experience points, as long as you are going for Exp amounts that are already found in the game.

So with that said, here's a new patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

This one should have all enemies give out some amount of Exp, even the most dull ones.
I would need some testing here for enemies found in Palaces, as I feel some of them might require an additional Exp boost than what I gave them.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 29, 2018, 02:12:12 am
The answer is in Bank 7 :

Code: [Select]
1DD4C: Table for Enemy Experience Tile Mapping Codes (2 * 10 = 20 bytes)

F5 = Nothing
A0 = 10
A2 = 5
A4 = 2
A6 = 7
60 = 3
6C = 15
9C = 0
9E = 00

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 A4 60 A2 A6 A0 6C A4 60 A2 A6 A0
F5 A4 60 A2 A0 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9E 9E 9E 9E 9E

First row for the left tile, and the second row for the right tile. So yes, you have to change the tile mappings if you want the correct digits to show up. As long as all your types of experience can be built with these tiles, you're okay. If I recall correctly, the Japanese version has a "1 point" experience code, but doesn't have the "7" digit tile.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 30, 2018, 11:49:59 am
Oh so I was not that off after all.
I ended up using Experience amounts that the game already uses, so fortunately I won't need to modify the Tile mapping for the experience points, though it's a good thing to know in case I need to add some custom amounts :)

Thanks for the info, Trax!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on May 30, 2018, 11:21:19 pm
It might be worth changing exp into rupees like in Revility's hack. It really felt like a good change. Switch out the P Bags for a large Rupee instead. Then it's like you're spending Rupees for upgrades :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 31, 2018, 11:29:07 am
It might be worth changing exp into rupees like in Revility's hack. It really felt like a good change. Switch out the P Bags for a large Rupee instead. Then it's like you're spending Rupees for upgrades :3
That's actually a pretty neat idea.
I never thought about it, but could make sense, since Zelda II is the only game which doesn't feature Rupees in one way or another, and is also the only one to feature an Experience system (that I know of) out of all the Zeldas.
Implementing Rupees would bring it more in line with the rest of the franchise.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 02, 2018, 06:29:45 am
That's actually a pretty neat idea.
I never thought about it, but could make sense, since Zelda II is the only game which doesn't feature Rupees in one way or another, and is also the only one to feature an Experience system (that I know of) out of all the Zeldas.
Implementing Rupees would bring it more in line with the rest of the franchise.

Revility implemented it quite well and changed a few in game items to bring it in line with the series as a whole. It would be worth having a look through his changes because he did an amazing job.

THIS (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3716/) title screen is a must even if you edit it because it's be far the most accurate to the artwork i've seen. That hack has a decent link sprite but I think I prefer Revility's as the sword is a tad longer and it felt really good to play through the game with.

I love the way you implemented hearts. It might be worth trying to get the magic meter to be green as then it'll match every other magic meter.
Still, changes like this will likely be down the list for you with all the foundation editing you're doing. Seriously, all that extra space for dialog is going to go a long way :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 04, 2018, 01:37:20 pm
I think I already mentioned it before, but basically I can't add another colour to the HUD without sacrificing an already existing one.
Right now the HUD uses 3 colours: White, blue and red (4th one is transparency).

So I would have to change one of those three to accommodate for the green colour for the magic meter, and green doesn't look good next to the hearts lol.
So yeah, I can't do much about the magic sadly, but I'll see if I can manage to make something work for sure.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 04, 2018, 10:22:35 pm
Oh my bad dude. I though you might've been able to draw from Link's sprite palette. I'm just brainstorming here man. I know how high you can set the bar (that being high af after LttP Redux, ie: the best version I ever played) Small changes can go a long way sometimes
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:45 pm
Oh my bad dude. I though you might've been able to draw from Link's sprite palette. I'm just brainstorming here man. I know how high you can set the bar (that being high af after LttP Redux, ie: the best version I ever played) Small changes can go a long way sometimes
Hey don't worry :P
It's good to brainstorm, could give some nice ideas!
The palette limitation could still be circumvent in one way or another, I just need to try several things first, but given how there are more important things to be worked on (Script, enemy balancing), it's resting at the bottom of things to look at :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on June 05, 2018, 12:50:01 pm
Are you still wanting script help? I just got back from a long vacation and can actually help out now.

Do you know if the line length is actually 10 or 11 characters? It actually would change a lot.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 02:22:58 pm
Are you still wanting script help? I just got back from a long vacation and can actually help out now.

Do you know if the line length is actually 10 or 11 characters? It actually would change a lot.
Any help is welcome :)
You can grab the latest beta from the OP, patch it over a ROM and work with that.
There's a link in the OP as well of the whole script comparison between japanese, english and a proper translation, so we can use that as the base.

Do you know how to start repointing and writing the script?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on June 05, 2018, 04:00:59 pm
Repointing... No. I can hex edit just fine, is there a guide on repointing text pointers?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 04:47:17 pm
Repointing... No. I can hex edit just fine, is there a guide on repointing text pointers?
I know there should be quite a few, but I always edit pointers manually as well (Hex editing).
I already have the list of pointers, but you can find them here:
https://lemmy.neocities.org/zelda2/bank3_and_7.txt

The text table begins at 0xE390, and the pointer table starts at 0xEFCE.

Take into consideration that the pointers take the NES address and not PC, so for the first text (PLEASE LET ME HELP YOU. COME INSIDE.) you have the "PLEASE L" letters here:

Code: [Select]
bank3_Dialogs_Text_Table                                                       ;
.byt    $E9,$E5,$DE,$DA,$EC,$DE,$F4,$E5; 0xe390 $A380 E9 E5 DE DA EC DE F4 E5  ;

The important bit is the $A380, that's the starting point for the text, and that's what the pointer table uses:

Code: [Select]
bank3_Dialogs_Pointer_Table_Towns_in_West_Hyrule                               ;
.word    bank3_Dialogs_Text_Table      ; 0xefce $AFBE 80 A3

As you can see, the first pointer is a couple of bytes [80 A3], but in reality this is in endian, and the pointer is [A3 80], or in other words $A380.
So all you need to do is, let's say you want to use the next unused space of the ROM for the new text, then you have to edit the pointer at 0xEFCE from A3 80 to what the NES address of where the unused area starts.

For example, there is free space starting at 0xF813, or $B803 in NES address, so you simply modify the [A3 80] for [B8 03], but in the ROM you write it as [03 B8].

I believe you can convert PC Address to NES address by subtracting 0x4010 from the PC address (E390 - 4010 = A380), so if you end up doubting what NES address is the location you want to put your code in, simply grab the PC address from the Hex editor and subtract in hex 4010 from it, and that's the NES address that you should write in the pointer locations.

Once you do that, the text that should be printed will no longer be grabbed from its original location, but rather whatever text  you start typing at B803.

That is what I did to make the Rauru sign's mockup image a few pages ago found here:

(https://imgur.com/kqo663k.png)

Let me know if you have any more questions.
Also, don't forget to close each text table with FF at the end of whatever you write, or else the text will continue to be printed on-screen, and this will end up in a text overflow.

You can grab the TBL file for the text editing from Data Crystal.
As for the question about 10/11 characters, I'm not sure yet, I haven't tried pushing 11 to each line and see if it respects the 11 or if it overflows. Try it yourself if you can :P
10 is the safe number in case anything happens.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 20, 2018, 11:05:56 am
Just for those wondering, nope, this hack is not dead :P
I just won't be able to make progress on it during these weeks due to being on vacations.
I might be able to go back to this maybe mid to late July, or starting in August, but rest assured this thing will be finished for sure ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on June 22, 2018, 09:28:37 am
It would be nice if someone could figure out how to change the music. I just played a Zelda 1 hack where someone changed the dungeon music to the dungeon music from A Link To The Past. Now, that's something I would love to do with the palace music of Zelda 2. If someone can show me how to do that, I'd be indebted to you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on June 22, 2018, 10:02:38 pm
RAM for music is $EB. Look for every place where you have a store command to $EB and you can change the music playing. Music and sound effects in Zelda II are usually formatted as a single bit field, but I've seen codes like C0 too. I think zero means no sound and 80 means mute music. So, try with bytes that have only one bit set, aka powers of 2 (in hex) : 1, 2, 4, 8, 10, 20, 40, 80.

If you want to create new music, then you have to learn the workings of the APU. This is very hard.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on June 23, 2018, 09:52:43 am
I would want to take a song from another game and add it to Zelda 2. I figured that would be very hard.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on June 25, 2018, 12:09:10 am
Talk to Optomon. He made the entire soundtack for Rogue Dawn, the best hack of Metroid to date. He's a pro when it comes to NES music.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: John Enigma on June 25, 2018, 02:14:33 pm
I'm loving this.

Perhaps even more than the Easy Hack for Zelda 2.