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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm

Title: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm
Some weeks ago user @njosro started a topic about his Zelda II - Restart from Palace hack, which makes it so that the game restarts you at the start of a palace you currently are after a Game over or Continue.
This inspired me to further hack Zelda II to more or less alleviate the most obnoxious things which takes away from making Zelda II a more enjoyable experience.

Here is the patch for the beta (Updated with each release):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

And here's the changelog of the hack compared to vanilla Zelda II so far:


Optional Patches:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d2iyb368nt409x8/AACaS0GW4RT0S3bMZ8LXUJ25a?dl=0

Spoiler:
  • FDSKingsTomb.ips
        This patch restores the layout of the King's Tomb screen to resemble that of the Famicom release of Zelda II.
  • KeepExpAtGameOver.ips
        Like its name says, this patch will make it so that even if you get a Game Over, you will keep the Exp you gained.
  • NewExp.ips
        A completely revamped Exp system courtesy of IcePenguin! This system makes it so that you will no longer get the Level Up window prompt once you reach the required Exp for a new level. Instead, Experience points will now accumulate, and once you want to Level Up a certain ability, press Up+Start will automatically bring up the Level Up menu, even if you don't have enough Exp for a level up. In that case, the only available option will be "Cancel".
  • ReducedLag.ips
        This patch reduces the amount of lag on-screen by reducing the number of enemies that spawn at the same time.
  • OriginalLinkDolls.ips
        As the name implies, this restores the functionality of the Zelda II Link dolls to be the same as in the original Zelda II.
  • OriginalTitleScreen.ips
        Restores the original sword from vanilla Zelda II back into the title screen (and removes the moon too).
  • RestartSameAtScreenGameOver.ips
        This patch makes it so that when you get a Game Over, you restart in the same screen that you died on, instead of being brought back to the beginning of the current palace or Zelda's Palace in the case of the overworld.
  • StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips
        At the end of each palace, where you put the crystal into it, you used to get an undefined amount of Exp, until you leveled up. With this patch, each crystal put into a palace gives you a determined amount of Exp:
        Palace 1 = 500 exp
        Palace 2 = 1000 exp
        Palace 3 = 1500 exp
        Palace 4 = 2000 exp
        Palace 5 = 2500 exp
        Palace 6 = 3000 exp
  • Secret.ips
        ???

HELP NEEDED FOR:

If anyone can give a full run of the game and let me know how the changes feel, please let me know.

I am also seeking out for suggestions and things that could make Zelda II a better experience over all.
If you have any suggestions, please feel free to post them here!
I'll analyze them and try to add them if I feel fit.

I'll try to focus on 1) Rebalancing the game, 2) Modify stuff which is already obnoxious in-game, 3) Perhaps rewriting some lines which don't make sense in the game.
Though, if any of you still have some ideas which you think might add to the game and are somewhat doable, please feel free to let me know :)

TODO list:

Possible enemy modifications:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 15, 2018, 03:36:30 pm
All the things you listed sound great so far, if I could add any one thing to it, I would speed up the NPC text.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 15, 2018, 04:20:56 pm
Nice work. :)

Would be cool to see these things fixed/improved:
-Sword attack is canceled if you swing right before landing or jumping
-Need to reselect spells in every new screen/room before use and after using a spell once you need to reselect it again
-Accumulated exp is wasted when you finish a dungeon and level up instantly
-A smaller world map, less dead space (if possible it would be nice to be able to enter a village from either side - except for the river town)
-More even experience balancing in the early game with tougher/larger enemies giving a bit more exp
-Faster dialogue text (shows the whole message with one press, removes it with the next)
-More uses for tools and rarely used spells in dungeons
-(more out there) Implement the boomerang or the bow
-Shorten the beeping when low on health - 3-4 times is enough
-(a lot of work) redesign the game to be more non-linear in structure, like Zelda 1
-Make MP drops a bit more common overall, or just early on (for example the statue outside the first palace could drop one, like the later ones do)
-(more out there) Implement manual blocking of enemies moving into you with the shield, by pressing a button combo
-Make it possible to see how much you have left to reach each stat level at will instead of just when you level up
-Maybe switch around some dialogue to make clues harder to miss

-You could also remove the ability to jump attack enemies like the knights in the face to skip the duels, though that's more controversial
-Might also be controversial: remove the knockback when hitting enemies (but not the blocks if possible)
-Might also be controversial: make it hard to bounce past enemies using downthrust

I personally didn't mind the exp stealing enemies that much, maybe it could be an optional feature.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 05:09:44 pm
Oh the text speed is one that I haven't even thought of.
I gave it a try and I think I managed to make it much more fluent and faster.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Give that one a try and let me know what do you think about it.
The only downside with that is that now the Typewriter sound goes way faster and sounds like a raspy thing instead.
I could remove the sound, but it sounds way too empty in between textbox sounds.

If you want to hear how it would sound without the Typewriter noise, open up the ROM in a hex editor and change the byte found at 0xF757 from 60 to 00 (so that it doesn't make any sound).
Other sounds in between are the laser from the sword sound and the death sound.



As for your recommendations PresidentLeever, I am interested in rebalancing some of the Exp points given out by enemies, though I don't know which ones yet as I feel most enemies at the start do offer a considerable amount of Exp given the trouble they give to kill them. If someone has suggestions as to what enemies to change, please let me know.

The beeping for the health is another one I might be interested in, as is the switching around some dialogue and more common enemy drops.
I feel like changing the dialogue would be something I would do last, just so that I can focus only in that exclusively and not many things at once.

One last thing nothing, is that alongside graphics, I don't think I'll be changing the game's layout too much/at all.
The only things I find annoying are the pits when you tend to fall to them by a knockback, but that's all that I can think of.

I'm still open to suggestions, so once I know we have the text speed out of the way I might tackle something else from the suggestions :)

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DavidtheIdeaMan on March 15, 2018, 06:14:04 pm
You know,since we are making changes to Zelda II and make it less frustrating,maybe you can tackle of the Castlevania Nes Games?   
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 11:09:15 am
Nice, yeah I actually talked to someone else who did that with the text speed a while back and had the same issue so that's why I suggested the button press idea. But personally I'm fine with this too.

Alright, I've only played up to the first palace so far but would suggest these exp changes:
Orange moblin - 2-4 exp
Orange goriya - 24-30 exp (or lower the red moblin a little bit)
"wolf" in the palace - 1-3 exp

Edit:
Beat the first palace. I think 6 hits for the skull/bubble is a bit much given the exp they give? But standing and hitting them over and over isn't fun so maybe just reduce the exp they give to 25 or so (and keep 50 for the fast one).

Blue bat - 10 exp
Red goriya - 35-40 exp

I wanted to do an improvement/rebalance hack using the editor earlier and as part of that tried to reduce the overworld size (to make it easier to spot item locations and reduce travel times), but ran into some issue with certain tiles in eastern hyrule. Ran into issues when changing the dialogue as well (there is a retranslation online that I used as reference). I also wanted to do much more, but couldn't, so it's great to see this taking shape now. :)

This was about as far as I got with the OW maps:
https://i.imgur.com/p6xrR7q.png
https://i.imgur.com/DM1QUo9.png
https://i.imgur.com/cTSa7iC.png

I can try to explain the sword swing cancel in more detail, I think that would be a big improvement if fixed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Ar8temis008 on March 16, 2018, 04:34:52 pm
Now this is a crazy idea and I don't expect you to go through with it, but what if you removed the overworked completely? It adds nothing to the game except needless confusion.

You could add branching path ways in levels that lead to different areas, it would sort of play like Castlevania II (except better).

The manual save feature and less linear design that was mentioned earlier would complement this.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 16, 2018, 06:11:28 pm
Played for a bit, and it's really promising so far. I think the speedy text works great, the sound doesn't bother me at all.

If you want to know about a certain enemy that needs rebalancing, I have a suggestion for Doomknocker. They throw maces that return to them like a boomerang... or at least that's how you expect it to work.  If you kill doomknockers after they throw their maces, the maces will return to where they are and stay there for a bit, before going back into the direction they were thrown.  This really messes with the player's expectations, and given that they've been placed over a few lava pits, this is a really bad move.  If at all possible, i'd like to see that their maces return to the direction they were thrown from and keep going, like you'd expect of a boomerang type weapon.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 06:33:50 pm
ShadowOne333, I'm a fan of all of your hacks and was really excited to see this and apply your prototype patch.

My thoughts so far: if there is a way to totally cut off the sound with the sped up text, I think that would be the right direction. The static sound is a distraction.

Also, with the hearts: I absolutely love the concept of switching out the life bar. However, my first visual impression of the dark blue background surrounding the hearts struck me as aesthetically off. I've gotten used to it the more I play but I think the first impression is important. My suggestion would be to remove the blue background all together, let the hearts stand directly against the area backdrop. When the hearts are emptied, perhaps they could be turned white?

Thanks again for working on this. I'm sure I'll have more feedback as I get deeper in.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 07:58:30 pm
Yes it's not quite perfect. Maybe do something like these suggestions if possible:
(https://i.imgur.com/BYuApRu.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 08:22:49 pm
Both great options. But if the hearts can't switch to white, I think I'd rather see the blue outline than have them disappear altogether. It also gives you that cool Ocarina effect.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 08:43:51 pm
Oh right, something like this then? Either black or blue inside, click to zoom.
(https://i.imgur.com/MjuGq8m.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 09:08:29 pm
When I mentioned white, I was thinking the solid red hearts could turn solid white when you lose them. As opposed to that, you could leave the blue outline of the heart and have them go black.

However, based on this second image, black center white outline looks very good too. Might be the ideal scenario. I wouldn't have the hearts turn blue. I don't think there is a precedent in the franchise for that and it seems odd visually.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 09:25:37 pm
Well this mimics zelda 3 and link's awakening whereas that would look like zelda 1. But the blue in shadowone's version is probably a layer on top of a simple red meter that drains so it might not be doable. 

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 09:36:42 pm
Thank you, guys!
It's really great to see this kind of suppport and suggestions :)
Really appreciated!

As for the heart meter, PresidentLeever is correct.
While the mockups are nice and pretty, I ended up using the blue "mask" to cover up the effect the game uses to display the health.

It's basically a red rectangle which drains, and it does so in a rectangle shape sadly.
I explained why I used that design in detail here:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25751.msg352319#msg352319

Quote from: ShadowOne333
I struggled quite a bit because the game uses some kind of background colour for keeping track of the health, which is why I ended up putting a blue colour around the hearts so that this effect is not seen while in gameplay.

So sadly, I am limited by:
1) Four colours. Well actually three (white, blue and red) and a transparency one (background).
2) The background layer which keeps track of the health. It seems to be just one single 8x8 tile repeated several times, so I gotta e careful what to put there, and also make sure it is mirrored perfectly when the health drains, because the tile ends up moving left a bit.
If I use another shape that's not a rectangle, it will overlap or go out of the heart-shape bounds.

So yeah, sadly that's what I could do without having to redo the whole health/damage routines. I'm still thinking about what to do with the Magic meter though, not sure if I will make it one solid bar or keep it segmented as it is.
I also thought about swaping the blue and white for it, making it so that the Magic meter is blue instead of white, but I'll see what I can do :p

Thanks again, guys!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 10:08:47 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 10:13:00 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Well...
I COULD use black, but that would mean sacrificing either the blue or white.
If I sacrifice the blue for a solid black, the only drawback would be the Sword graphic having no hilt xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 01:40:41 am
Here's some of my suggestions if you want to add them to your hack:

Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
(https://tcrf.net/images/c/c3/TAOL_Water.gif)
Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
(https://tcrf.net/images/9/9c/Zelda2-MazePalace.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/f/f6/Zelda2-HiddenPalace.png)
Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
(https://tcrf.net/images/5/5b/TAOL_JP15.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/0/06/FDS_Zelda_II_Kidnapped_Child.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/9/94/TAOL_JP13.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/3/3c/TAOL_JP19.png)
Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 07:45:56 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: NES Boy on March 17, 2018, 08:47:16 am
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
But which localization should we base this reference on? Depending on the translation, the name in the English Dragon Quest game is either Loto or Erdrick.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 09:39:41 am
As far as i'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:05:15 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Can you post a pic of it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 11:33:49 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:45:53 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx
Okay I think I know why that happens.
Remember the problem I mentioned with the health bar having a red rectangle as a background?
It's related to that.

It seems the boss' life meter uses the same graphic.
I had to fill the whole 8x8 tile with red so that we could have a full heart in the health meter, so that is why you see a full bar instead of a segmented one.

I will try to see what I can do about it this Tuesday.
I might end up either modifying Link's health bar again or making the Boss' life bar a full non-segmented bar, one of the two. The later most likely.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 12:47:09 pm
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Thanks, I'm glad that you liked my suggestions.

As far as I'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.

I agree with you, I also think we should go with Erdrick as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 01:33:36 pm
Just finished the 2nd Palace. I really liked how the bubble enemy health was significantly reduced but I think the same thing should be done to the Ras (floating blue dragon heads). I was always one of those OCD players who couldn't help but kill everything no matter how long it took and eliminating the 12 or so required hits would be wonderful.

Btw, I think the cutting of magic consumption by 1/2 is working fine. I still find myself desperately looking for magic potions at times and overall it still feels balanced for the NES era. I wouldn't suggest increasing magic and xp drop rates as I believe it would only cheapen the experience. 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 17, 2018, 04:30:30 pm
Making the skulls/bubbles go down that quick already is an increase in exp drops in practice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 04:53:28 pm
would this be doable? https://ibb.co/hGD1Nx

the green sword hilt doesnt really bother me, and i dont think the letters need the blue shadow really

also, the enemies that drain exp. are hella annoying, but maybe find a way to make them drain (much) less than they normally do would be better than completely taking away,

also, i think, the point of making the bubble such a "tank" to begin with was that they were such a exp. farm. idk, it might be too easy if they go down in a few hits though. maybe 1/3 would be good?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 05:40:52 pm
@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 10:06:28 pm
https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

also, it would only be a visual thing, but the fireball spell could be changed to Bow and Arrow, it would still drain magic, but it might could work (bombs are "magic" items in BotW)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

not sure if you can use something like that, but would look super cool

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 18, 2018, 12:13:21 am
I have a suggestion, which I'll write on this slip of paper and drop in your suggestion box.

Increase the striking range of Link's sword by one tile exactly, please. That isn't a sword, it's a kitchen knife. You'd have to extend the sprite as well, naturally.

Hope it's somehow doable, sometime :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 18, 2018, 04:57:33 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: wolpak on March 18, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Love these ideas.

Anyway to have experience levels go up to level 10 each?  Maybe balance that with more powerful end game enemies.

I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 18, 2018, 11:20:02 pm
agreed, lives would be perfect like that!

also, if the "double jump" (ability to jump again in midair) could replace the wierd floaty jump spell would be awesome

and fall in a pit or lava, instead of taking a life, should restart you at the beginning of the room with 1 less heart, and should only kill you (obviously) if you have 1 heart or less. that would be awesome
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on March 20, 2018, 02:55:45 am
Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DankPotato2600 on March 20, 2018, 11:12:12 am
DO NOT change the 'I AM ERROR'
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 11:31:12 am
Man what a shit weekend I had.
Sorry about not posting.

Now back on track, wow you guys surely have some interesting points.
Let me get back to some of them:

Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
This is one of the first re-translations I was gonna make ;)
I want to keep both the Error guy and Bagu, but Bagu will have his proper english name of Bug.
I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.
This is something I am thinking to implement, however from what I've seen, the game does not save the amount of lives into SRAM at any point, so I have to see if I could somehow make the game save the maximum amount of lives into SRAM and then add +1 to that lives counter for when you find a Link Doll at any point.
This might require some heavy ASM hacking, and SRAM hacking too, which I am a noob at, so it would be tackled down the road to see if I can do it. If someone could help here, it'd be greatly appreciated.

https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!

That's a really good mockup!
But sadly I still need a colour to overlay the Health/Magic consumption bar.
So that means I need 3 colours for the HUD, one which should be white for the letters, one to mask the consumption effect, and another one for the hearts. So this really doesn't leave any room for the green colour at all.
Either I go for a whole black to cover up the red/white bars (consumption) or change the overlay from blue to green, but it doesn't look pretty. So I am stuck with either leaving the Blue overlay or either making it black completely, but the sword icon won't look good. xD
One more thing, is that I haven't tried to flip around or reorganize the order in which the Sword, Magic and Health are displayed/printed in the HUD.

@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.

Well I didn't really see it that way to be honest.
In the first palace you encounter Red Stalfos, which are really easy to kill (go down in like 3 hits I believe) without any effort but simply ducking and stabbing their feet. They give out 30 Exp.
Now compare them with the Bubbles which require around 10~ or so stabs and they give 50 Exp, and I think the comparison is valid if you take into consideration other sword/shield based enemies in the 1st Palace.
I think the damage dealt to them is now way more in balance to how many hits they took to kill them, and at the end they just give out 50 Exp, which is kinda lame compared to the amount of stabs given out in the original to kill them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@SCD sorry I didn't get back to you before.
Let me address your suggestions:


1) Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Would this be for the Game Over screen or the bosses roar?
I kinda like the Game Over screen sound of the NES one.
Though I can't remember if the NES used any sound for the bosses at all.

2) Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
How exactly did the level system work for the FDS port?
For what I know, the Level system is way more user friendly in the NES, isn't it?

3) Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
This will be done for sure when I tackle rewriting the script.

4) Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
This is one I REALLY want to do, but the NES port completely disabled the text prompt in that particular place in Saria.
If someone knows a way to re-implement this into the NES port, please let me know, as I'd really love to see this one back in the NES one. The text I will be going for (if this gets implemented back) is "The hero Erdrick rests here"

5) Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
This is one I want to put back in as well, but I haven't really researched enough as if it is possible to achieve or not in the NES port. If someone has an insight or knows how to do it, please let me know as well.
I think this will require modifying the mapper of the ROM.

6) Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
This I might do as well, the windows look neat enough to not have them there :P

7) Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
I think that from all of these, I might only end up doing the River Devil.
Carock and Volvagia's sprites look better to me on the NES release, and the Kidnapped Child has a purpose.
In the original FDS game, the Child's sprite had some sort of multiple ropes which tied him up, and you had to stab it with the sword to free him. However, in the NES release, you can simply pick up the Child, which makes the need of the ropes useless anymore as you don't remove the ropes now.

8) Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
The mockup looks really cool. Though I'm still unsure about this.
I don't know if this will affect something in-game or not. Is visiting the King's Tomb necessary for progression in the game? I can't recall right now, it's been quite a while since I last did a full playthrough of Zelda 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 20, 2018, 01:09:20 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 20, 2018, 01:46:15 pm
ShadowOne333,


   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

IamCaptPlanet

   Now that I've completed my hack, A Double Jump is something I'm going to look into as well. I think that would be so much better than the current JUMP spell.


The game currently caps the level progression to 8 and enemy HP to a max of 255. If someone could create a way to go pact those caps,  I'd love to see it. Or at least for attack, include the Master Sword and increase the emeny hp cap to go beyond 255 to 300-350.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 03:10:28 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
I'll have to take a look and see what I can do about the bosses' roars.
I hope they don't rely on the FDS extra sound channels, or else I'd be screwed.

I'll give the level system a look too once I am out of the Enemy balancing, I want to start focusing on that and in the HUD just to have that settled down and then I'll move into other stuff.

As for the King's Tomb place, I might change it out IF I find out how to bring up the NPC and the same message in the unused area.

   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

So it is possible then, interesting. Good to know. Thanks for the heads up!
I might have to take a peek at IcePenguin's hack and try to track down how he did it.
If Trax could help out in this regard, that would be even better, I'd be really grateful.

----------------------------------------------

Oh also, for the people that are trying the latest patch, please try the following:

Open up the patched ROM in a hex editor, and go to the following address:
0x00F756

Once you do, you should see the following bytes [A9 60].
Try to change the 60 in there for a 00, and reload the ROM in your emulator.

Now try to load up any text and compare them.
This effectively removes the typewriter sound for when text is being printed out.

Let me know what do you guys think of it, if you like it more with the noise of the typewriter being fast, or if I should remove it altogether.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 04:28:00 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 04:29:47 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
I'm all up for fixing it (if it indeed is a bug), but I haven't done any research on it nor do I know what it consists of and what its repercussions are. It for sure will require some ASM so I would most likely take a look at it later rather than sooner.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 05:16:57 pm
Alright, thanks. It happens if you jump right after hitting attack, or attack right before landing from a jump. The expected behavior is that link completes the swing while jumping or landing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 20, 2018, 08:48:25 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.

Well...yeah maybe a whole tile is a lot. But a couple of pixels I think would still be too short to really be a sword. A proper sword should be the length of Link's torso, you'd think. So...I mean, I'm gonna ballpark guess that 4 pixels longer would be enough? Plus, games do things in multiples of 4 a lot, so that should be easy, or so I would guestimate without any real knowledge of the thing.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.

Indeed, I'd say so. Longer Darknut swords in equal measure. Sauce for the goose.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 23, 2018, 01:42:34 pm
Dropping by to say that I won't be able to work on this project for like a week or two due to vacations.
But still, feel free to post suggestions and things which might make Zelda II a better experience overall.

I'd be taking notes for when I get back to it by the end of March/start of April, so don't hesitate to post your suggestions ;)

Last thing I did was ramp up a bit the enemy drops (from 1/6 to 1/5), so that's the less thing from the TODO list remaining.

Next up might be checking what the heck is going on with the Bosses' life bar.
I am sure it has to do with the new HUD, so I will take a look at those sprites while fighting the first boss in the First Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: zstandig on March 23, 2018, 09:28:59 pm

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".

It's been a while since I've played through Zelda II so I might be missing some context, but would "TOMB OF KINGS" work?  I figured since now we know the official timeline and Zelda II is pretty late, so it would be reasonable to have a tomb of many past kings.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 09, 2018, 03:14:56 pm
Back, boys :)
And I bring to you the latest beta:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

This one should have more common enemy drops (but not that common, from 1/6 to 1/5) and it should also fix the issue with the Boss' health bar.

For the later, I had to do some compromises, I had to reduce the height of the Hearts in the Life meter by one pixel.
So right now it should be like 6 pixels tall, and I feel like it still looks really good in the HUD.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/ur1tu.png)

Let me know what do you guys think!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 09, 2018, 04:03:12 pm
That looks great! Glad to see you back, chugging away.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 09, 2018, 07:37:43 pm
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 07:28:26 am
Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 10:14:22 am
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3

Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed ALttP Redux :)
I will check Revility's hack and see what I can gather from it to accommodate for this one.

Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?

Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 11:12:06 am
Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?

As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 12:15:24 pm
As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Oh I see.
I might have to check out Revility's hack to try to sort that little bug out.

I think I might do a repaletting of Link, as I feel like his colours look washed out and not as vibrant as they should be.

How's this for a change?

(http://i63.tinypic.com/1z4eryb.png)

Or this one

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2me47zr.png)

This are the original colors of Link just for reference:
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Legend_of_Zelda_2_The_Adventure_of_Link_NES_ScreenShot4.gif)

As for the tile animation for the water in the outworld, I'll try to check it out after I am done with this and some enemy editing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 02:41:50 pm
I like both of those.

I would like to make Link's Tunic either blue or gold.

As far as the moving water, do you think you can find the solution looking at the FDS version and maybe transferring that info over?

Also, IcePenguin emailed me a day ago, so he might be back. If so, he may also be able to answer that question as well as the tell you about that DASH spell.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 07:38:43 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 09:00:51 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)

That's a pretty darn good mockup!
Unfortunately, you are correct.
We are currently limited to 3 main colors for Link, which are brown, green and beige.
4th colour is used for transparency, sadly.
The only way to achieve your mockup would be to do a mask sprite ala Megama indeed.

Also for the brown being TOO dark...
That's the only other shade of brown below the one used by default.
You can check here, this is the whole colour palette the NES uses:
(http://gamester81.com/wp-content/uploads/nes-color-palette.jpg)

Link uses colours 18 for brown, 2A for green and 36 for beige in vanilla Zelda II.
I changed them to 08 brown, 1A or 19 green and 37 beige.
I'm tempted to use color 07 instead of the brown, but not sure how well received that'd be.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 10:11:31 pm
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 11, 2018, 07:29:08 am
The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 10:20:30 am
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s

17 still looks way too bright imo.
One way to check it out would be to load any game, and then compare the 17 with the red carpet on Zelda's Chamber.
It's almost the same colour.
07 doesn't look that bad if you look at it compared with both the black background and any coloured background, I might go for 07 instead, 37 for skin and I think 2A for the green.

With 17 for the outline:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2ihksx2.png)

07 for the outline:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2dubfrc.png)

The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL

I think Link's palette is at 0x01C460.
You should find [0F 18 36 2A] around there. If it's not in 0x01C460 it should be the one at 0x01C47B.
Try changing the one at 1C460 first and see if that does it.
Note: This should only change Link's palette in side view, Overworld palettes are stored somewhere else, as do the File selection palettes with Link's little avatar there as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 11, 2018, 12:46:03 pm
You spend much less time in zelda's chamber than in dungeons but this shows why they picked 18 I think, it doesn't blend in with either (although it does blend with certain town buildings). Anyway 07 looks alright when zoomed in to full screen size so if others like it then go for it.

As an aside I also did a quick mockup with three colors and more pronounced highlights on the dark parts yesterday but I wasn't quite happy with it as all parts seem to be of the same material.
https://i.imgur.com/7vheI3p.png
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 12:54:04 pm
Oh yeah you spend much of the time outside Zelda's chamber of course.
but yes, so far seems like 07 seems like a good option overall.

07 with black background:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/m9na0w.png)

07 in towns (put Link in a red building for comparison and testing):
(http://i64.tinypic.com/qrho9u.png)

Still looks quite good though, I can't remember if there are other places in Zelda II which might crash with the 07 colour of the outline. If someone does, please let me know.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 11, 2018, 01:45:09 pm
I was going to recommend 07 anyways! I think it looks good.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 12, 2018, 09:24:21 am
If you do end up using parts of Revility's hack, please use the altered Link sprite as its way better then the original ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 12, 2018, 12:06:18 pm
All of the sprites from Revility's hack are better than the original.

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.

Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 12, 2018, 12:14:31 pm
I'll give Revility's hack a look for sure :)
I haven't even tried it yet lol

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.
Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.

Oh you're right, they're the overworld palettes.
Well there are other three locations which you can try out:
0x002856, 0x0040BE and 0x017C15.

I'm not sure yet which one of these might do it.
I've been doing tests over the PPU and not directly to the ROM data, so I still haven't made the change permanent yet :P

EDIT:
It was the second address I mentioned.
It's the series of [FF 18 36 2A] palettes starting at 40AE-40E1, though this does not change the palette for Link in a Palace, that might be located somewhere else.

EDIT #2:
And indeed, they were somewhere else.
100AE-100E1 is where the palettes for Link inside palaces seem to be located.
Great Palace I think are at 140AE-140E1

I'm still not sure what the palette at 17C15 is for.
I tried looking at the disassembly to hopefully find clues but:
Quote
bank5_Table_for_some_palettes
LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: lastdual on April 12, 2018, 08:53:32 pm
You're also free to use or modify my link sprite should you wish to.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3702/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 06:19:49 pm
Decided to take a stab at the Introduction text today, this is how it ended up:

Quote
AFTER GANON WAS DESTROYED,
IMPA TOLD LINK ABOUT A
SLEEPING SPELL CAST ON
ANOTHER PRINCESS ZELDA.
SHE WILL WAKE ONLY WITH
THE POWER OF THE THIRD
TRIFORCE OF WISDOM SEALED
IN A PALACE IN HYRULE.
TO BREAK THE SEAL,CRYSTALS
MUST BE PLACED IN STATUES
IN 6 WELL GUARDED PALACES.
LINK SET OUT ON HIS MOST
ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET...
©1987 NINTENDO

(Is it the Triforce of Wisdom the one in Zelda II? I don't remember if it's that one or the one of Courage)

The only problem I hit with this edit is this:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/14szd45.png)

The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.
Should be a matter of finding out the tilemap and changing the palette values, which will take me quite some fiddling with the PPU memory.
If someone races it and finds it before me, please let me know :P
I will continue this until Monday, so if anyone jumps in with the info, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:49:48 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 07:52:08 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?

Shit now I have to rework the text to fit Courage instead of Wisdom. lol

Mmmm well I want it to be like vanilla, where all text is white and the Nintendo one is green.
But if you have something better in mind, please do tell :p
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:57:00 pm
I don't know where the colors for the text are. If I stumble upon something, I'd gladly let you know.

BTW, I started some work on a new Zelda 2 hack building off the concept of Trax's "Ice Tiles". If I can figure out how to incorporate it in the sideviews, that can open up some new gameplay concepts.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 13, 2018, 10:07:54 pm
The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 10:49:16 pm
As always IcePenguin, you are awesome!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 15, 2018, 04:55:33 pm
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Psyklax on April 16, 2018, 02:12:52 am
Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 10:54:32 am
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny

Could be a good way to put it as well, I might change it once I am out of Bugland.

Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)

Thanks! That sure helped out to understand it a bit more :)
I did know how tilemaps worked, I just didn't know how to get them with FCEUX using the debugger.
I freaking suck at using debuggers and their features to be honest, I tend to find everything from RAM of by ROM corruption xD

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)

That's awesome!
Damn tilemaps and their one byte thing :P

However, I stumbled upon two issues while doing this:

Here's a gif of how both issues look right now in-game (sorry for the lame-ass fps):
(https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Hacks/zelda2.gif?_subject_uid=287263362&raw=1&size=1280x960&size_mode=3&w=AABUx0BMAdCjkg4QEpoDvlKtjDHy_Qy91wAU8QnBhabVlw)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 16, 2018, 12:06:01 pm
Two other hacks i'd look at incorporating are:

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1276/ for the type faces and borders

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3716/ for the boxart accurate title screen

---

I'd also have a read through Rev Edition's thread as a lot of suggestions were made there - https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25528
I'd honestly try and collab with Revility made because between you, you could really make a comprehensive hacked version of Zelda 2. Do you think separate audio tracks could be used also? There are better versions of the songs available.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 16, 2018, 04:09:00 pm
This is looking good!
It'll be really cool to encourage other people to play this game who don't want to "appreciate" (suffer through) zelda 2's difficulty.

@Psyklax That bit of palette info is really helpful! I've been wanting to allow my text editor to do the intro text, but I'm no good with figuring out graphics stuff.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 05:29:57 pm
Managed to fix both issues posted earlier.
Were damn simple, but managed to fix them both haha

So here is the latest patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Now be sure to check the intro text and let me know if there is anything odd or out of place.
I'll see what I'll tackle next in the meanwhile haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on April 16, 2018, 07:44:56 pm
And the NPCs from this hack?

(Best design.)

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3795/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 17, 2018, 05:05:32 pm
Okay guys, I think I know what I'll be doing next.
I already gave the text a try, and I can repoint the text to some free space near the $F000 address for text boxes which are somewhat short.

So what I can do right now is expand any text box that has between 1-3 lines up to 4 lines of text in the textbox.

Now what I'd like you guys to help me out with, is to determine which lines of dialogue sound odd, cryptic or out of place, so that I know which ones to focus on and rework them properly.

Here's the comparison list with a retranslation from the Japanese text to English and also comparing it to the default English translation:
http://www.glitterberri.com/adventure-of-link/retranslation/

With that said, if you guys have any specific suggestion for a line or something, let me know.
Just take into consideration that the text boxes have the following limitations:

So to accommodate any retranslated text, we have to remember that we can only write up to 40 characters (10 per row) in any given text box.
That is the only limitation at the moment, unless I find a way to expand the text box to some other width (hopefully at least 15 chars).

Please, let me know any text changes suggestions you may have!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 17, 2018, 05:58:13 pm
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 18, 2018, 10:17:15 am
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Thanks for stopping by my humble thread, Trax! hahah :P
So you have attempted expanding the text boxes before, but you say the palettes are what made it difficult?
Interesting.

As for what you mention in the second paragraph, by accented characters you mean like Á, É, etc, or special characters like ', ?, !, etc?
I did notice that the game tends to jump one whole row of tiles to print the next line of text, so perhaps we could somehow bypass this to effectively have around 8 lines of text per textbox instead of the 4 we have at the moment.

I believe Bisquit did the same thing for Castlevania II's textboxes, where he made it so that each text box has 8 lines now instead of 4. Both CV2 and Zelda 2 seem to use a very similar textbox setup.

I'll try to attempt the 8 lines thing and see if I can make something out of it.

Thank you so much, Trax!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Trax:
I searched a little bit around the disassembly and found this in particular:

Code: [Select]
bank3_End_of_Line_Routine                                                      ;
ldy      #$0B                          ; 0xf666 $B656 A0 0B                    ; 0B = delay after dialog line with FD
cmp      #$FD                          ; 0xf668 $B658 C9 FD                    ;
beq      LB65E                         ; 0xf66a $B65A F0 02                    ;
ldy      #$2D                          ; 0xf66c $B65C A0 2D                    ; 2D = delay after dialog line with FE
LB65E                                                                          ;
sty      $0566                         ; 0xf66e $B65E 8C 66 05                 ; Delay between letters
lda      #$00                          ; 0xf671 $B661 A9 00                    ; A = 00
sta      $0489                         ; 0xf673 $B663 8D 89 04                 ; New Letter X Position (offset)
lda      $048A                         ; 0xf676 $B666 AD 8A 04                 ; Next Letter Y Position
clc                                    ; 0xf679 $B669 18                       ;
adc      #$40                          ; 0xf67a $B66A 69 40                    ; Go down 2 tiles (0x10 pixels)
sta      $048A                         ; 0xf67c $B66C 8D 8A 04                 ; New Letter Y Position
jmp      LB752                         ; 0xf67f $B66F 4C 52 B7                 ;

This seems to be related to the FD/FE commands that the text uses to make a new line.
The portion I focused on was the [69 40] in particular.
I tried to change it to [69 20] to try to make the game print to the tile below instead of skipping one.
It DOES print to the tile below, but not without deleting the one above as it prints new letters.
I also tried [69 60] just to try and see what it does when skipping 2 tiles and printing to the third one, and this one effectively makes it so that I can only have 3 lines of text in a textbox (just as a simple test).
But 69 20 keeps removing the line above as it prints letters sadly.

I'll try to see what I can do in the meanwhile with this.
Hopefully that's what you meant by the line skip, if not then I am screwing around somewhere else lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on April 19, 2018, 12:32:55 am
All you have to do to get an acceptable amount of space out of Zelda 2's message boxes is redo the text drawing code so it doesn't skip the spaces where the dakuten would go in the Japanese version.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 19, 2018, 10:26:27 pm
There are two things I remember that complicated things.

1. The space above each letter is printed because in the japanese there was a possibility for some characters having those lines (") above them. If you print any character in a certain range it will print (") (but actually comes out as garbage text in the US version since the tileset is different). Otherwise it prints a space character above the letter. So if you find the spot where it does that and get rid of that bit of code then you should probably be able to do the no skipping lines thing without a problem.

2. After printing 4 lines of text the counter wraps around to zero and starts printing from the top again. If I recall correctly, it was because the line number was actually stored as the y position that directly corresponds to the y position on screen, so you can't go down past the last line of text without requiring 2 bytes (which is why the text box is at the height you see in the game). You'd need to make things more complicated and do your own math routine to get past this.


So if you find the code that prints the extra character above the letters and remove it, and then make it increase the y counter by 0x08 instead of 0x10 you should be able to do it. But I'm just going by memory here...

EDIT:
I didn't read Midna's post fully! The dakuten is the symbol I'm talking about when I write this: (")
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 20, 2018, 01:12:50 am
I have just retrieved the solution in my documents. If you want to go on and find the answer for yourself, I encourage you to do so. But if you prefer for me to provide the answer, I'll do it.

What you have to consider is that everytime a letter is drawn on screen, there's actually 2 tiles that are drawn. The letter itself, and the tile above. The top tile is set to empty (F4), or an accent tile, used initially in the Japanese version, and never happens in the US version, so the tile is always empty. If you want to see what happens visually, go to F416, and replace all F4 values by FE (or whatever tile you want). You will end up with a dialog box with a different background, and the drawn tiles will be visually distinguishable.

Important note. Because of that 2-tile setup, you may lose one line either at the top (original game's setup), or at the bottom. The reason why you can't start at the very top of the interior of the dialog box is that it would overwrite the top border with empty tiles. So, without skipping lines, you can have a clean 7 lines of text instead of 4. Not a bad improvement.

The more advanced alternative would be to remake the drawing macro code so that it uses only one tile and remove the accent tile completely. This is fine until you want to use languages with accented characters.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 20, 2018, 02:14:29 pm
That's some helpful insight from all of you!

So I have to look at the dialogue printing routines and see what they do.
@Trax, if I'm correct you are referring to these:

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box                                     ;
.word    bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings; 0xf403 $B3F3 07 B4    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf405 $B3F5 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf407 $B3F7 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf409 $B3F9 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40b $B3FB 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40d $B3FD 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf40f $B3FF 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf411 $B401 15 B4                    ;
.word    LB415                         ; 0xf413 $B403 15 B4                    ;
.word    bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings; 0xf415 $B405 07 B4    ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Tables_for_dialog_box_rows_tile_mappings                                 ;
.byt    $CA,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB; 0xf417 $B407 CA CB CB CB CB CB CB CB  ;
.byt    $CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CB,$CA        ; 0xf41f $B40F CB CB CB CB CB CA        ;
LB415                                                                          ;
.byt    $CC,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4,$F4; 0xf425 $B415 CC F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4  ;
.byt    $F4,$F4,$F4,$F4                ; 0xf42d $B41D F4 F4 F4 F4              ;
LB421                                                                          ;
.byt    $F4                            ; 0xf431 $B421 F4                       ;
LB422                                                                          ;
.byt    $CC                            ; 0xf432 $B422 CC                       ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

The part which prints the empty spaces is found at label LB415, and it seems the pointer table right above it uses this very same tilemapping.

Diving a little bit into the disassembly I found this portion of code which seems to control the drawing of the dialogue boxes, and it also utilizes this very same pointers and tilemaps for the empty F4s.

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_Dialog_Routines_load_tiles_to_draw_the_dialog_box_lines_and_more__R1     ;
lda      $0525                         ; 0xf0e2 $B0D2 AD 25 05                 ; Routine Delay
asl                                    ; 0xf0e5 $B0D5 0A                       ;
tay                                    ; 0xf0e6 $B0D6 A8                       ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box,y; 0xf0e7 $B0D7 B9 F3 B3   ;
sta      L0002                         ; 0xf0ea $B0DA 85 02                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01,y; 0xf0ec $B0DC B9 F4 B3;
sta      $03                           ; 0xf0ef $B0DF 85 03                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01+$09,y; 0xf0f1 $B0E1 B9 FD B3;
sta      $04                           ; 0xf0f4 $B0E4 85 04                    ;
lda      bank3_Pointer_table_for_rows_of_dialog_box+$01+$09+$01,y; 0xf0f6 $B0E6 B9 FE B3;
sta      $05                           ; 0xf0f9 $B0E9 85 05                    ;
ldy      #$0D                          ; 0xf0fb $B0EB A0 0D                    ; Y = 0D
LB0ED                                                                          ;
lda      (L0002),y                     ; 0xf0fd $B0ED B1 02                    ;
sta      $053E,y                       ; 0xf0ff $B0EF 99 3E 05                 ;;temp area used to copy from to generate the ppu macro for the spell menu
lda      ($04),y                       ; 0xf102 $B0F2 B1 04                    ;
sta      $054C,y                       ; 0xf104 $B0F4 99 4C 05                 ;
dey                                    ; 0xf107 $B0F7 88                       ;
bpl      LB0ED                         ; 0xf108 $B0F8 10 F3                    ;
jsr      bank3_Palette_modification_routine; 0xf10a $B0FA 20 0B B1             ; Palette modification routine
inc      $0525                         ; 0xf10d $B0FD EE 25 05                 ; Routine Delay
lda      $0525                         ; 0xf110 $B100 AD 25 05                 ;; Routine Delay
cmp      #$05                          ; 0xf113 $B103 C9 05                    ;
bcc      LB10A                         ; 0xf115 $B105 90 03                    ; if A < 05, return
bank3_Dialog_Routines_advance_to_next_routine_in_this_table__R2                ;
inc      $0524                         ; 0xf117 $B107 EE 24 05                 ; advance to next routine...
LB10A                                                                          ;
rts                                    ; 0xf11a $B10A 60                       ;
                                                                               ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

I'm a little busy at work today, and since weekend is at hand, I won't work on Redux until next Monday (I gotta get myself a PC damnit).
I will try to make out some sense out of it in the weekend though, I'll give it a good read and try to understand how it works :)

Thanks for the help, guys!
It is really appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 22, 2018, 12:28:34 am
Aside from the above hacks I mention above to incorporate, you should also change Bagu's name to Bug so the Error and Bug reference makes sense. Maybe add a line of dialog on one of them about being brothers or something to tie them together a bit more. I'd def try an incorporate the more accurate title screen and updated link sprites. Also, since you have hearts for health, maybe you could change the magic meter to green using Link's palette?

I had a lot of ideas for Revility. I could copy and paste them here if it helps.
Your work so far looks awesome :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 22, 2018, 09:02:24 am
I'm loving most of the improvements done here. I was just thinking though. The Giant Bubble is kind of KNOWN for having a ludicrous amount of HP and reducing it relieves a major issue, but maybe make it take a little bit more than just 5 (maybe 10?) just so that it is still drastically reduced but still retains some of the original feel. Just a suggestion.

As for Bagu's name, maybe Buggu or Buggo might sound better, but Bagu is simply Bug as far as his name. Though, one might think that they are referring to an insect and not a person.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on April 22, 2018, 07:07:08 pm
the skull bubbles like the lazors that come from the heads are more meant to be something to annoy you not to kill esp in the early game. there something to chase you out of a room and something to take magic away from you. just my opinion but reducing there hits to kill them defeats there purpose.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 23, 2018, 04:22:17 pm
Regarding the Skull Bubbles health, yeah I think I will make them have a bit more health than 5 hits.
I will make it 10 so that at least they're not AS easy.

What I did was take one other enemy as a base, in this case one of the Red Stalfos that appear in the first Palace, and then I saw how many hits they took and how much experience they gave in comparison.
The Red Stalfos take 3 hits and give 30 Exp, so I thought having the bubbles take 5 hits and give 50 Exp would be good enough, besides they move somewhat fast and tend to appear alongside other enemies, which means that you have to avoid getting hit or the Bubble will continue its path.
I will NOT restore the Bubble's original health, that's an absurd amount of health to just get 50 Exp back, I think something between 5-10 hits is okay. I am still open to suggestions to the correct amount. I might leave it at 10.

As for Bagu, I think I settled on naming him Bug, plain and simple. :P
Bagu's literal translation to English is Bug, so I will keep the running joke between Error and Bug as the original localization team attempted to do. Besides how could I remove such an iconic phrase of gaming history? lol
So Error and Bug will be their names :)

I had quite a busy weekend and sadly couldn't take a look at the dialogue box routines. :/
I will try to do so this week, hopefully I get a break or two at work to be able to dive into it properly.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on April 23, 2018, 10:01:13 pm
of course do what you want its your hack but if your going to make them that easy of a kill people will just grind them at 50 xp so I would suggest moving there xp way down considerably.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 24, 2018, 12:56:41 am
Speaking of rebalancing, I think the Great Palace is one to consider. I know it's meant to be difficult, but its difficult even for seasoned veterans. I know a heap of people who owned the game back in the day, got to the final dungeon and never finished it. The Fokka are just a bit OP. I feel like this could be offset with health or more magic items being strewn about but slightly less health might help those less seasoned. Those Blue Fokka.. well, they're mother fokkas that's for sure.

As for changes to the game, how far are you willing to go. I know you're open to incorporating parts of other hacks but would you be open to added in content, such as maybe an Impa sprite standing by Princess Zelda who tells you the story that the intro doesn't? Maybe put the Prince at King's Tomb. Actually, the FDS version of King's Tomb was better IMHO then just a single screen with a woman stating the obvious.

Revility made a lot of great dialog changes. With his game as a base and your changes, I think that would be the definitive Zelda 2 experience. And RetroAchievements for good measure. Pretty sure that'd draw more people to play your hack too
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 24, 2018, 05:55:36 am
What would be even better for the Great Palace is the inclusion of the bosses from the 1st 6 palaces. If someone can find a way to do that, That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 24, 2018, 10:21:51 am
Speaking of rebalancing, I think the Great Palace is one to consider. I know it's meant to be difficult, but its difficult even for seasoned veterans. I know a heap of people who owned the game back in the day, got to the final dungeon and never finished it. The Fokka are just a bit OP. I feel like this could be offset with health or more magic items being strewn about but slightly less health might help those less seasoned. Those Blue Fokka.. well, they're mother fokkas that's for sure.

Are those by any chance these little assholes?
(https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/strategywiki/images/8/8b/Adventure_of_Link_Fokkel_Blue.png)

Man this was the first enemy I thought of when I mentioned rebalancing some enemies, it's a nightmare going through these guys.
I remember I once got stuck in one of those block structures with a Blue Mofokka jumping in the other side and I was like:
"Goddamnit just de-spawn or something, I wanna get through!"
I freaking despise those guys lol.
It seems Red Fokkas have 48 HP and the Blue ones have double, 96 HP.

If someone has suggestions for rebalancing enemies on the Great Palace, I'm all up for suggestions on those.
You can get an idea of how much HP, damage and other stuff each enemy has in this page:
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Palace_Enemies#Great_Palace

I might have some spare time today, I'll try to focus on changing the health of the Bubbles in the meantime.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 24, 2018, 11:00:39 am
I wish it was easy to increase Link's maximum level. Even 8/8/8 can feel fragile in The Great Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 24, 2018, 01:11:39 pm
Okay I found the MoFokkas HP address in the ROM.
I changed the Red Fokka's HP from 48 to 40 and the Blue ones from 96 to 80.
This should at least alleviate a little bit the issues with those two in the Great Palace.

I also changed the Degu Bubble HP from 255 to 60, and the Bubbles in the Great Palace to 30 HP (from the usual 255).
For other Palaces, I made them have double the amount they had.
I think the Bubbles in normal palaces had 0A, I doubled it to 14 in hex.

That should do it right now for the most annoying enemies so far.
I might still edit some more enemies down the road.

Here's the patch with the latest changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Also, I found out that some addresses were wrong in the Data Crystal entry for Zelda II.
I took the liberty to fix them up, mostly in the enemy data.

Please be sure to give the newest patch a try and let me know how the Bubbles feel with the new HP, also try out the Great Palace to test the Fokkas and Bubbles HP, same for the Bit/Bot creatures.



As for the dialogue boxes, I will check them during the week, hopefully it's not that hard to remove that line that gets printed above to get at least 7 lines of text per box.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 24, 2018, 02:05:35 pm
Yeah, those mother fuckers.. Literally the worst. You gotta have your shit down or get lucky. There's no in between.
I think there are just too many of the TBH. Especially when you're looking for magic bottles and you accidentally awaken a Fokka out of no where. Desperation for health becomes desperation for survival so quickly lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 24, 2018, 05:58:17 pm
Come on, it's the last palace, it's supposed to be hard as hell. Great Palace = Great Difficulty.

I pretty much agree with ItemDrop about the Bubbles. It's obvious that the 250 HP value was meant to make them look invincible. It's only because you level up your sword power that they become killable with a reasonable amount of hits later in the game. I see two ways to balance the thing:

- Reduce the hit points, but as a tradeoff, also reduce the experience points. Plus, don't make them regenerate between screens (there's a flag for that in Enemy Attributes tables), to avoid obvious grinding.

Or...

- Make them truly invulnerable, as in, your sword goes through. There's a flag for that in the third Attributes Table. This way, they keep their function as annoying enemy that you have to avoid, and you don't have to worry about hit points or experience points.

As for the Fokkas. Yes, they are hard, but it's not like you hack your sword in all directions until they (or you) die. Like any other enemy, they have a pattern and you study the pattern to beat them. The only thing that annoys me is when they throw a flying blade at an odd height while mid-jump, and you're not sure whether you need to duck or not. Both Red and Blue Fokkas have the same movement AI, the only difference is that the Blue one shoots a lot more flying blades. You can't fight them like Iron Knuckles, so you basically have three options:

- Head hit while at the peak of the jump.
- Leg hit just before landing.
- Up thrust anytime while in mid-air. Note that this attack is more likely to hurt you at the same time.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 24, 2018, 11:18:48 pm
Most of the areas where the Blue Fokkas appear, you can use the landscape to your advantage to defeat them. Stay high and when they jump, hit them in the head and repeat the process.

ShadowOne - I figured out how to create a midair jump, but it is always on, so it renders jump magic useless. I haven't figured out how to get it working only when using the Jump spell yet.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 25, 2018, 04:03:40 am
Its not like I haven't finished Zelda 2 a number of times :p I can imagine if it were a boss that were really difficult that would make sense but a regular enemy.. its a cop out. Less skilled players hit a brick wall and stop playing and is it really worth keeping the original difficulty just because difficult? I don't think so. If you want the original unbalanced version, that's what the official release is for. I mean the logic for arguing for keeping Fokkas at their original difficulty would be the same if you were arguing against the 'start at the entrance of palace' hack also as that makes things easier too.

I imagine this version of the game would be better if it appealed to more players. Maybe a compromise would be best. Maybe make the Up stab take like a third/quarter of their health? Either way, a regular enemy shouldn't impede a player THAT much that the only way past is precision shots to the head. Also you can't really use the landscape to your advantage when they can launch a volley of penetrating blades through anything. Maybe making their blades stop on blocks would balance things more also.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 25, 2018, 01:18:45 pm
- Reduce the hit points, but as a tradeoff, also reduce the experience points. Plus, don't make them regenerate between screens (there's a flag for that in Enemy Attributes tables), to avoid obvious grinding.
Oh! I completely forgot there was a bit for respawning the enemy!
I think I'm gonna go for this option.
Making them non-respawnable would kinda fix the possible Exp grinding so early on.
I found them starting at 0x011571, changing the 46 to 06 seems to do it.
Though I gotta be honest, I intended to do this to make my life easier through the game :D
Perhaps I'll modify the byte back when I make my own ROM haha.

So I'd most likely do this option, thanks for the suggestion!

Btw, Trax, I gave the disassembly of the dialogue boxes a read, but I cannot seem to get the hang of it. :/
The LDYs and all of the addresses with "($XXXX),y" really confuse me, I am but a mere noob at ASM and haven't really learned how to handle those (nor the LDX ones) xP
Could you give any clue on what I should be looking for to make the 7 lines change to the dialogue boxes, please?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 25, 2018, 09:19:37 pm
Come on, it's the last palace, it's supposed to be hard as hell. Great Palace = Great Difficulty...

As for the Fokkas. Yes, they are hard, but it's not like you hack your sword in all directions until they (or you) die. Like any other enemy, they have a pattern and you study the pattern to beat them.

I agree with Trax.  It makes me think of Iron Knuckles.  Iron Knuckles are very challenging to fight if you don't know what to do, but once you learn that (lame) jumping slash, they become no better an obstacle than a skeleton.  Fokkas are easy to kill, just like Iron Knuckles.  You just gotta learn how to do it, as Trax described in his post.  ;)

Speaking of jumping slash, I'd like to see a hack that removes it and makes Iron Knuckles even harder!  Mwa ha ha.   >:D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 25, 2018, 09:40:42 pm
Or give the Blue Ironknuckles a boatload of HP. LOL!

Good to see you post on this thread Ice Penguin.

The only thing I would like to see changed for all of you advanced hackers is to have all of the previous bosses from the 1st 6 palaces included in the Great Palace like other Zelda games. I'd like to see Hammerhead, Helmethead, Rebonack, Carock, Gooma, and Barba make an appearance in the Great Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 25, 2018, 11:57:37 pm
ShadowOne. Don't forget to make the changes for Bubbles in Palaces Type A, B and Great Palace. These are 3 distinct tables. Also, Fast and Slow. Also, Big Bubble in Great Palace, if you want to tweak this enemy too. As for the regeneration, what you did is correct. This is the structure table for that Attributes Table:

Code: [Select]
11541: Other Enemy Attributes (24 bytes) (6E41 in RAM)

x... .... Immune to Thunder Spell
.x.. .... Regenerates
..x. .... ? (never used)
...x .... Not hittable with sword
.... xxxx ? (0 or 6)

As for the town dialogues, I think what may elude hackers the most is the use of what I call "PPU Macros". To change tiles, most often background tiles, most game use macros that act as a "command" to tell the system what to change and where. It's usually in the 3xx part of RAM, starting at 301. The structure of the string that composes a macro is usually like this:

Code: [Select]
AA BB BB CC DD ... 0xFF
AA = Number of bytes to process (a single letter in a Zelda II dialog needs 5 bytes processed).
BB BB = Offset in RAM, usually in PPU space between 0000 and 1FFF. Big endian, so the most significant byte first.
CC = Number of tiles to draw, and whether you want to draw tiles horizontally or vertically (bit 7 set = draw vertically). I think bit 6 could be a Repeat flag. A letter drawn uses the value 82.
DD = Tile Codes to draw, as many as needed.
0xFF = End Byte. I think you can chain macros by starting another one instead of putting FF there. The value FF simply means "stop processing macros".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 26, 2018, 03:04:36 pm
Yep, I will update the tables for Temple A, B and Great Palace to match for the Bubbles in all their variants.
One question though, do they follow the same order for each one?
Like the table at 0x011551 has the order of the enemies listed before the table, but the one at 0x012A51 does not, neither does the one for the Great Palace at 0x15551. Just want to make sure the order is the same in terms of enemy listing.

As for the Dialog boxes, I tried to debug the RAM Address $301 and found out it calls this particular code:
Code: [Select]
LC11C                                                                          ;
ldx      bank7_table0,y                ; 0x1c12c $C11C BE 5D C0                ;
lda      #$00                          ; 0x1c12f $C11F A9 00                   ; A = 00
sta      $0301,x                       ; 0x1c131 $C121 9D 01 03                ;
lda      #$FF                          ; 0x1c134 $C124 A9 FF                   ; A = FF
sta      L0302,x                       ; 0x1c136 $C126 9D 02 03                ;
lda      $0725                         ; 0x1c139 $C129 AD 25 07                ;; PPU Macro Selector
The STAs there when running the "WELCOME TO RAURU" sign in the first town effectively store 05 in $301 and I believe 24 in $302. Am I in the right track?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 26, 2018, 11:48:51 pm
You are in the NMI routine, and it looks like a reset operation for the current frame. You should just stick to the code in bank 3. Your goal is to have the letter tile and the accent tile swapped. You also have to move down the offset one tile, so that you still start at the same first line as in the original setup, but have the letter tile at the top of the two-tile setup. This way, you only overwrite the tile under the "writing head", so it doesn't actually draw over anything since it's already empty.

If you start at F6DD, you'll see the code that sets the letter tile, the accent tile, and the macro to draw it. My disassembly has comments on the operations.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 27, 2018, 06:10:27 pm
Oh I do remember I did some changes there, but couldn't make much of it.
I am inclined to say this is the portion that I should be looking into:
Code: [Select]
adc      $048A                         ; 0xf736 $B726 6D 8A 04                 ; Letter Y Position offset
sta      $0303                         ; 0xf739 $B729 8D 03 03                 ;; Letter position when writing to screen
lda       !$03                         ; 0xf73c $B72C AD 03 00                 ;
adc      #$00                          ; 0xf73f $B72F 69 00                    ;
sta      L0302                         ; 0xf741 $B731 8D 02 03                 ;; Used when writing text to screen
lda      #$82                          ; 0xf744 $B734 A9 82                    ; A = 82
sta      $0304                         ; 0xf746 $B736 8D 04 03                 ;; Text memory offset?
stx      $0305                         ; 0xf749 $B739 8E 05 03                 ; tile above current letter
lda      #$FF                          ; 0xf74c $B73C A9 FF                    ; A = FF
sta      $0307                         ; 0xf74e $B73E 8D 07 03                 ;; Text memory offset?
lda      #$05                          ; 0xf751 $B741 A9 05                    ; A = 05
sta      $0301                         ; 0xf753 $B743 8D 01 03                 ;;ppu number of bytes following (counts both instructions and tile data values); Used when writing

I tried doing some modifications here, still no luck but I'm still trying.
Something interesting though, I modified this line here:

Code: [Select]
bcs      LB6E7                         ; 0xf6f1 $B6E1 B0 04                    ; skip to $F6E7

I changed the BCS $F6E7 [B0 04] to BCS $F6ED [B0 0A] and noticed that the tiles were now switched and the upper one wasn't being overwritten. Though it was all garbage data, but at least it switched tiles for a while lol.
I will keep looking into this in the meanwhile.

Thanks for all the help, @Trax, hope I am not being too much of a bother due to my serious lack of ASM knowledge.
It is very appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 01, 2018, 01:30:46 pm
@Trax - How much progress have you made on you new editor Sword 2 and your new Zelda 2 hack?

@ShadowOne - Thanks for your help with palettes. I've finally been effective with changing palettes. I haven't found everyone I need yet, but I'm getting there. I need the location to change palettes when Link uses magic and the palettes where Link uses Shield magic. I've found just about everything else I needed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 02:07:51 pm
Man I've been having quite the struggle with that Dialog box thing. XP
I haven't been able to get it working yet :/

I am still trying though, I can't give up with this if I want to have proper lengthy sentences to avoid being limited in text length.

@Trax - How much progress have you made on you new editor Sword 2 and your new Zelda 2 hack?

@ShadowOne - Thanks for your help with palettes. I've finally been effective with changing palettes. I haven't found everyone I need yet, but I'm getting there. I need the location to change palettes when Link uses magic and the palettes where Link uses Shield magic. I've found just about everything else I needed.
The colour for Link after the Shield spell is found at 0x000E9D.
In there you will see [A9 16], that's the LDA opcode that loads up the red palette once Link activates the Shield Spell.
Change the $16 to whatever other Hex ID of palette you desire.

What other palette do you need besides the one when Link uses Shield?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 02, 2018, 02:16:48 pm
Man I've been having quite the struggle with that Dialog box thing. XP
I haven't been able to get it working yet :/

I am still trying though, I can't give up with this if I want to have proper lengthy sentences to avoid being limited in text length.
The colour for Link after the Shield spell is found at 0x000E9D.
In there you will see [A9 16], that's the LDA opcode that loads up the red palette once Link activates the Shield Spell.
Change the $16 to whatever other Hex ID of palette you desire.

What other palette do you need besides the one when Link uses Shield?

I need the ones for when casts a spell that is NOT the SHIELD spell. It changes from the new color I have him back to the Green & Red.

I hope you are able to get the dialog box working. I'm sure it's quite the pain.

I'm still trying to find a way to fix my midair jump from being infinite to just 1 midair jump preferably 2 at most. That is a pain right now too.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 02, 2018, 05:35:03 pm
What's the exact size for text boxes that you're going for? Any other limitations?

I'd love to start work on rewriting the text to match the increased box size... Even if it's not done yet.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 06:34:09 pm
I need the ones for when casts a spell that is NOT the SHIELD spell. It changes from the new color I have him back to the Green & Red.

I hope you are able to get the dialog box working. I'm sure it's quite the pain.

I'm still trying to find a way to fix my midair jump from being infinite to just 1 midair jump preferably 2 at most. That is a pain right now too.
So you mean changing the colours of the flashes when you use the spells?

What's the exact size for text boxes that you're going for? Any other limitations?

I'd love to start work on rewriting the text to match the increased box size... Even if it's not done yet.
It's not the dialog box size I'm trying to change, but rather get rid of the empty tile above each line of text that gets printed.
This would make it so that we can have 7 lines of text instead of the normal 4.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 02, 2018, 06:45:51 pm
So ten characters wide, with seven rows?

I wish the width could be increased to like, 12, but I can't imagine that would be easy either!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 02, 2018, 07:11:41 pm
I think someone mentioned this before, I think it was Trax or IcePenguin, but basically the conclusion was that it was much easier to get rid of the empty row of tiles that separates each text line to have 7 lines of text per dialog box, because increasing the size of the box itself proved to be quite problematic, both in ASM and palette stuff.

So, with that said, the solution given is what I'm trying to achieve at the moment, unsuccessful so far lol but still trying.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 02, 2018, 09:26:16 pm
@ShadowOne - When you use a spell that's not Shield, Link flashes and then he changes back into his Green and Red, but when you use SHIELD spell, Link flashes and then turns red. You were spot on about the Shield spell. I need the palettes for when he uses other spells. Somehow, I changed the red to black(don't know where I found it), but I have yet to find the green, so I can change it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 03, 2018, 04:38:59 am
I've been meaning to replay Zelda II patched to make it less frustrating and more fair, so it's great to see this topic.

My previous plan had been to double patch Zelda II with Njosro's Palace Patch:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3859/

And also tog's Easy patch:
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1084/

However, this new patch as described in this thread already includes the Palace Patch. So... What are the main difference's to Tog's Easy Patch? They seem similar, for example magic costing less and enemies requiring less hits.

However, I very much like ShadowOne333's improvement of no lost EXP - that was supremely annoying in the original. Plus there's some graphic improvements and save improvements.

But at the same time, there's a lot of talk here suggesting changes to make the game MORE difficult in some ways. Increasing HP for some enemies, or putting a boss rush in the final palace. I utterly despise boss rushes in games - they're boring. I've beaten those bosses already, I literally never, ever want to see them again. They're done, a closed chapter, forget about them.

Also reverting to the AWFUL levelling system of the FDS original. Dear god no!! SCD said it was easier in the FDS version, but it absolutely was not.
Quote
When you save and quit, all three levels are reduced to the lowest one you had of any of the three upgrades (for example, if you had Lv. 8 Attack, Lv. 5 Magic, and Lv. 3 Life, they would all be reset to Level 3). In the NES version, all levels are always retained between sessions.


What the hell? Why would any of us want to revert to this broken system? I intend to play on a FlashCart with real saving, not Quick Saves on an emu, which would negate this problem. I don't want to level my Attack to 8, switch off, only to see all that EXP wasted and reduced down to 1 or 3 or whatever the lowest is.

That system is TERRIBLE. It forces you to level every single thing up one at a time, at the same time, and it prevents you from switching the game off until all three are at the same level. You've got AML up to levels 8, 7, and 6? Well sorry, you can't switch off until you also level up M and L as well.

The FDS levelling system is pure hot garbage since it wastes untold quantities of hard fought for EXP. It's like a TAX on saving your game. Want to save? Pay the tax man all the EXP you gained.

That's the kind of insanity Working Designs would pull.

PLEASE DO NOT REIMPLEMENT THE FDS LEVELLING SYSTEM. PLEASE. PLEASE.

We also went from a reduced 5 hits for the bubbles up to 10, even though I personally would have been cool with just 1 hit (they're bubbles, they should pop easily). At least that's what I read when speed skimming through this thread, not sure if the 10 was actually implemented.

So now I'm conflicted. I do like this new patch, but it's starting to get weird, and complicated, and harder than the original game in some small ways?

What if I mixed all 3 patches together?

Should I just wait for a more final version of this patch?

I basically want the Palace Patch, plus the main game to be easier, more fair, actually winnable, but without any nonsense like "getting more EXP" and then rebalancing that with enemies who have more HP. I find this is the problem with pretty much every single improvement patch for all games. It starts leaning in one direction, so to rebalance that it goes in the opposite direction, and we end up with a weird mess which is frustrating.



Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 03, 2018, 07:53:17 am
PLEASE DO NOT REIMPLEMENT THE FDS LEVELLING SYSTEM. PLEASE. PLEASE.

We also went from a reduced 5 hits for the bubbles up to 10, even though I personally would have been cool with just 1 hit (they're bubbles, they should pop easily). At least that's what I read when speed skimming through this thread, not sure if the 10 was actually implemented.

Agreed on the leveling and not going too far with implementing new things for its own sake I guess, but it's not in the OP so I don't think it's going in?

The issue with the bubbles is high exp gain for little effort and farming opportunities, while tougher enemies sometimes give poor rewards.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on May 03, 2018, 08:14:15 am
the reality is your never gonna please everyone. everyone has there own taste own ideas of what made the game great and what made it bad. I think you're suggestion to yourself RetroProf is probably the best in that you could amalgamate all the things you want in your own version. its not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on May 03, 2018, 09:41:05 am
If popularity is a goal, ShadowOne should shape the hack around the most common criticisms of the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 03, 2018, 10:11:44 am
@RetroProf:
If it's not stated in the OP, it hasn't been implemented/planned at the moment.
I originally wanted to implement the Easy patch into this, but I feel like there are way too many changes in that patch which makes the game too much of an "Easy" thing all the way, which is why I preferred to only focus on changes to certain enemies, and not all of them, mainly the most obnoxious ones to make the game more enjoyable and not too much of a hassle.

I also implemented some changes to the Magic consumption, because in the original the magic barely even lasted if you used 2-3 spells in a row.

First and foremost, I want this patch to tackle the most annoying aspects of Zelda II, rework them in a way that feels fair and balanced, to make the overall experience a better trip all the way throughout.
Right now, you can test the patch in the OP, should be the latest so far (without the palette changes yet).
Try it out and let me know what do you think of it.

If at all, at the end you can still patch the Easy patch over this one, I haven't repointed anything related to enemies or magic consumption, which is what the Easy patch focuses on.
I haven't done changes to the levelling system at all, it isn't pointed in the OP I believe, so at the moment no plans until I get through the Dialog box to have more lines of text, and the palettes for Link and some NPCs (I really don't like the pink $36 palette for almost every skin tone, I feel $37 fits way better).

Quote
So now I'm conflicted. I do like this new patch, but it's starting to get weird, and complicated, and harder than the original game in some small ways?
What do you mean by this?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 03, 2018, 10:22:19 am
It's true. You can't please everyone which is why most people when creating heir hacks have a targeted group in mind whether it's fans of the original game who thought it was easy or trying to wheel in people who like the original but thought it was too hard or those in between.

I think ShadowOne's hack does make the game easier and a bit more fair, so those who thought the original was too hard should be able to complete this game. If you think this game is too hard, you should try The Battle Of Olympus. That's a game that would make you rage quit!  :laugh:

@RetroProf - What about the game comes across as hard for you? If it's certain enemies, it could be simply the way you're fighting them, and we can inform you of tactics you can use to win.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 03, 2018, 10:27:00 am
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on May 03, 2018, 10:38:57 am
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die

hehe just cast jump the room becomes significantly easier
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Sinis on May 03, 2018, 12:17:14 pm
My only request is to please fix the room in the Maze Palace with the statue heads that fly in a wave motion and continually knock you into the lava pits until you die


This statement I can fully relate with  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 03, 2018, 02:51:27 pm
What do you mean by this?

Oh, don't worry about it. I wasn't focusing on the OP. My statement was based on reading various suggestions to add or subtract things, and I started getting this feeling that this Redux patch will end up being a chimera or random and possibly conflicting suggestions. A few suggestions by different posters made it seem to me as if some parts of the game would get harder. Based solely on what's been done in the OP, it actually so far sounds like precisely what I want (Palace Patch + easier). I'll be updating my flash cart after this post.

And thank you for doing this. :)

If you think this game is too hard, you should try The Battle Of Olympus. That's a game that would make you rage quit!  :laugh:

@RetroProf - What about the game comes across as hard for you?

I actually completed Battle of Olympus a couple years back on original hardware with passwords. Apart from the very last area and boss, I found it quite manageable. Even easy? Though I did use an older version of this patch which rebalanced the olives (the one I used rebalanced the olives, but did not have SRAM support):
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3600/

If I recall correctly, you had infinite continues, which allowed you to respawn at the start of a tough area, allowing you learn the patterns quickly.

The two things I found difficult about the original Zelda II:
1) Returning to the starting area after losing a life. Now that is rage quit inducing.

2) Getting stun locked from so many enemies and projectiles. I have recollections of hitting one projectile, getting knocked back, and then hitting another one before I'd even had time to readjust myself or move out of the way. Notable examples being along the wooden walls with enemies at the top, and platforming outside over bridges/rock formations with bubbles floating up, and lava areas in dungeons. Link would rebound around like a pong brick.

I completed Zelda II, but on a Dreamcast with continuous use of quick saves. At times every second or two.

I liked the surreal dichotomy between overworld and side-dungeons, but the difficulty was brutal. I would never have bothered to play it as a kid with the original cartridge.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 04, 2018, 10:55:13 am
I actually completed Battle of Olympus a couple years back on original hardware with passwords. Apart from the very last area and boss, I found it quite manageable. Even easy? Though I did use an older version of this patch which rebalanced the olives (the one I used rebalanced the olives, but did not have SRAM support):
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3600/

If I recall correctly, you had infinite continues, which allowed you to respawn at the start of a tough area, allowing you learn the patterns quickly.

The two things I found difficult about the original Zelda II:
1) Returning to the starting area after losing a life. Now that is rage quit inducing.

2) Getting stun locked from so many enemies and projectiles. I have recollections of hitting one projectile, getting knocked back, and then hitting another one before I'd even had time to readjust myself or move out of the way. Notable examples being along the wooden walls with enemies at the top, and platforming outside over bridges/rock formations with bubbles floating up, and lava areas in dungeons. Link would rebound around like a pong brick.

I completed Zelda II, but on a Dreamcast with continuous use of quick saves. At times every second or two.

I liked the surreal dichotomy between overworld and side-dungeons, but the difficulty was brutal. I would never have bothered to play it as a kid with the original cartridge.

Battle Of Olympus did have unlimited continues, but losing half of your olives was brutal especially when you were trying to buy the Divine Sword or Ares Bracelet or the Salamander Shield. To me Battle Of Olympus was much more difficult, but I still enjoyed it. I want to hack it, but there isn't enough tools out there for a newcomer like me, so I'm going to wait a while before trying it. As far as boss characters, Hades was more fun to fight than Dark Link.

Zelda 2 was more about figure out enemy patterns and once you did, the game was rather easy in my opinion. I tried to keep things balanced in my hack of Zelda 2 but at the same time give more purpose to some items like the boots. https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/ (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 04, 2018, 05:44:47 pm
@ultimaweapon:

I now understand what you meant with the Spell palette thing.
I just hit the same problem with it.

So, when you try to use any Spell, Link seems to revert back to the original palette [18 36 2A], or in the case of the Shield Spell [18 36 16], (changing the green tunic $2A for $16).

It seems like the game is grabbing the 18, 36 and 2A colours from somewhere else, so I gave the ROM an extensive search, but guess what?
I already changed ALL of the instances where the palette could be found [18 36] and there are no more instances of those two in the ROM, so I am not sure yet where does the game grab the original palette to begin with.

I'm inclined to say that it might be related to the Spell Casting routine which begins at 0x000DD3 and ends at 0x000E4A (with a branch to $1245-$1254), but I haven't found anything yet.

I'll let you know if I find anything, as I am still trying to debug the Dialog box thing as well :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 05, 2018, 12:07:04 am
For Link's palette after a spell, look for RAM $70F. If I remember correctly, it contains 0x16 if Shield is in effect. It may be relevant.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: RetroProf on May 05, 2018, 04:25:39 am
OK, I've been playing this patch and am up to the 3-eye hidden dungeon. I've been using a FlashCart with custom mappers, on an NTSC-U machine at 60Hz, running through yellow & white A/V cables on a PAL CRT television which can accept NTSC signals.

Here are my impressions:

I love it. The changes feel natural. It's actually kind of amazing how right all of the small quality of life changes feel. I had to check the original game to remind me.

* The text speed up is perfect - I can't believe we've all been playing the slow version all these years. On actual hardware the sound is great. It reminds me of the fire sound effect for the fire wand, a bit. Like the words are being burned onto the screen.

* Magic - the rebalanced magic feels just right. Again, I wonder how the dev team came to the decision to make it so expensive in the first place, because this feels so much more natural. It allows me to use SHIELD and FIRE spells more regularly, but the LIFE spell is still just expensive enough to prevent over-use. Also, the magic drops now add a real tactical advantage. When I see a red one, I immediately got to my menu and use all the spells I can, powering myself, before refilling the meter.

Importantly, this has allowed me to reach the 3-eye dungeon comfortably. I game overed 8 times so far, and my level ups are Attack 7, Magic 7, Life 8.

* I didn't notice much rebalancing, apart from the skull bubbles. But I haven't played in years. The skull bubble rebalancing is great because it actually allowed me to farm them a little bit in a couple of dungeons when I was 500 EXP away from a level up, but on my last life before the boss. So I'd level up, then either fight the boss, or game over and restart outside.

* The blue around the hearts looks really, really nice on actual hardware and a CRT. :) (See my palette comments below)

As this stands, it's perfectly sufficient for me if you don't make any more changes. I'd feel satisfied completing the game like this. Though obviously you want this to be the ultimate redux, so well done on doing all this.

Fight on good sir!


SUGGESTIONS
These are just things which bugged me. Ignore or consider as you wish.

* Magic deselecting itself after use. This is annoying, especially early in the game with SHIELD, where you basically want to use it in each room you enter.

* Beeping - I am cool with the health beeping! It's not so annoying and it keeps me alert. However, I tremendously dislike the beep for getting EXP. It sounds similar to the health beeping, especially when you get two EXP gains in quick succession. This causes a Pavlovian response in me whereupon I think my health is at critical levels. Usually it's in the thick of action where I'm felling lots of enemies (maybe easy blobs) while also fending off and taking damage from the bigger armoured knights or skeletons, when there's multiple enemies in a room. On more than one occasion I've incorrectly thought "Crap! Health is low!" and hit the Select button to use my LIFE spell, only to discover I nearly had full health.

Any chance of changing the tone of the EXP beep, or removing it altogether? Considering how much EXP grinding one does, the EXP beep gets very annoying.

* It would be nice if all enemies gave EXP. Even the kobolds (white headed rat/wolf enemies), and Moblins. Sure they're one-hit kills, and their original function was to induce fear by stealing EXP, but considering that level ups soon cost 2000 or 5000 a pop, I doubt anyone is going to farm kobolds if they gave 2 EXP. However, psychologically that little floating "2" will feel nicer than getting literally zero reward for swinging a sword. (I blame modern game design which has conditioned me to want prizes for every action. I want those prizes!)

* Would it be possible to keep one's EXP when saving using the controller trick, as opposed to a game over? I forgot how annoying it is to have 3500 EXP, away from a 5000 level up, and needing to turn the game off. Obviously one should be penalised when getting game over, by losing EXP, but saving normally? Obviously those emulating won't have this problem, it's exclusive to real hardware. Is the SRAM even capable of recording this, or would it require heavy recoding?

* Someone else mentioned it, but I also find it annoying that you might have 5800 EXP after beating the boss, and you basically waste all your EXP when placing the crystal. You should really get a free level up and then keep all the EXP you previously had. The game is hard enough as it is - cutting out some of the pointless grinding for EXP would not be a bad thing. Is this possible? So far I've been going back to farm skull bubbles before actually placing the crystal if I was a few hundred away.

* Regarding fixing the localisation, I have not read the page you link to, however, I think the following would be good:
- A clue revealing that Bagu is hiding in an invisible square in the swamp. I had to check online for this, and discovered other players have the same problem, wondering how anyone back in the day would find him without a guide. Someone in the river town really should tell you to find the hermit hiding in the swamp. One poster online joked that he thought Bagu was the town mayor, in hiding due to Ganon's "eyes" in the town, and that's why his note has the clout to persuade the bridge guard.
- Is there a clue for finding the water of life? I only found it by accident because someone said there's magic in a cave in some swamp. So I went back to that cave blocked by a rock in the firs swamp, and found the water of life in there. Not sure if this clue was referring to an actual cave with actual magic upgrade, or they meant water of life. But either way, it'd be nice if there was an obvious clue to "curative water" or "healing water" so people know how to cure the sick child.
- The kidnapped child clue is a bit rubbish. They say the child has been taken and is on an island. At first I thought they meant the maze island (which they do), but I could not find him. So I play the dungeon, I get the boots, and then I leave and walk to the Ocean Palace, which is also on an island, and I conclude: "Aha! This must be where the child is!" When in fact, no, the child is on maze island hidden to the south east. I had to use a guide for this after many hours of fruitless searching. Would be nice is the clue was a bit more on the nose - "The child is hidden in the maze on the island" or whatever fits.

Remember, anyone coming to this game for the first time in the current era, won't have copies of Nintendo Power, or necessarily friends playing it at the same time to help. They will only have in-game clues, or FAQs online which kind of spoil the experience.

* Any chance of assembly coding a map system into the game? The original Metroid on NES, and also Simon's Quest, both had map systems inserted into them, and they both work pretty damn well! I was astounded at how good the Metroid map is.

* Any chance of making the cave system easier to navigate? I managed to get through on trial and error, but it is kinda annoying. Not removing the maze, just... I dunno. Maybe having a letter or bit of text at the entrance/exit so you can keep track better?


REGARDING THE PALETTE

Please consider providing two patches, one with and one without the graphical changes. As any NES fan will know, the system does not natively output RGB, and there are various emulators which provide different types of palette. Basically what I'm seeing is not what everyone else is seeing, and vice versa.

To be honest, at first I thought the patch included the palette changes already - and then I checked a clean ROM and discovered everything looked the same.

Also, there is artefacting and natural blending of vertical lines on actual hardware. The easiest way to see this is load the original Zelda. See the two item boxes? The vertical columns look like they are twirling, like blue pieces of fusilli.

In Zelda 2, this inherent artefact causes an interesting "colour shimmer" on the roofs of houses when walking - as the screen scrolls the colours blend and artefact, and it seems to create artificial pseudo "extra colours", which resemble "dirty patches" on the roofs. Basically I still stick with the original NES, because I've yet to find an emulator filter which replicates these quirks which you find on CRT TVs.

Random evidence I googled:
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=7261 (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=7261)

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Famicom_Color_Palette (http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Famicom_Color_Palette)

http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html (http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html)

https://me.me/i/what-indie-developers-think-what-retro-games-actually-retro-games-5973719 (https://me.me/i/what-indie-developers-think-what-retro-games-actually-retro-games-5973719)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

I can also try to put a photo of my TV screen up. But looking at all the posted screenshots in this thread, they do not match what I see.

For me Link does not look like this on my TV:
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Legend_of_Zelda_2_The_Adventure_of_Link_NES_ScreenShot4.gif)

He actually already looks more like this, but with grungy pixelation around the edges:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2me47zr.png)

The browns are all darker, and the sky outside is much, much lighter than in emulated screens. This might also be related to my CRT TV settings.


CLOSING THOUGHTS
I've nearly finished the game anyway, so any further changes probably won't affect me.

So I'd like to say thank you for doing this and allowing me to go through the game again, properly, without quick saves, and enjoy the experience at the same time. It's been a lot of fun so far.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 06, 2018, 06:23:49 pm
Okay guys, I think I know what I'll be doing next.
I already gave the text a try, and I can repoint the text to some free space near the $F000 address for text boxes which are somewhat short.

So what I can do right now is expand any text box that has between 1-3 lines up to 4 lines of text in the textbox.

Now what I'd like you guys to help me out with, is to determine which lines of dialogue sound odd, cryptic or out of place, so that I know which ones to focus on and rework them properly.

Here's the comparison list with a retranslation from the Japanese text to English and also comparing it to the default English translation:
http://www.glitterberri.com/adventure-of-link/retranslation/

With that said, if you guys have any specific suggestion for a line or something, let me know.
Just take into consideration that the text boxes have the following limitations:
  • Only 10 characters per row/line
  • Only 4 lines/rows per text box

So to accommodate any retranslated text, we have to remember that we can only write up to 40 characters (10 per row) in any given text box.
That is the only limitation at the moment, unless I find a way to expand the text box to some other width (hopefully at least 15 chars).

Please, let me know any text changes suggestions you may have!

I'm working on some translation stuff now..

Any idea how this line has 11 characters? It would really make things easier to have an additional character per row.
(https://i.imgur.com/M5bxPNY.png)

Here's what I've done so far with 10x7:
Code: [Select]
OLD:
EACH TOWN
HAS A WISE
MAN. LEARN
FROM HIM.

NEW:
EACH TOWN
HAS A WISE
MAN WHO
WILL TEACH
YOU MAGIC.

OLD:
FIND THE
HEART IN
SOUTHERN
PARAPA.

NEW:
THE SHORE
SOUTH OF
PARAPA
TEMPLE HAS
A HEART
CONTAINER.

ONLY THE
HAMMER CAN
DESTROY A
ROADBLOCK.

NEW:
IF YOU
HAVE A
HAMMER YOU
CAN BREAK
THE ROCKS
THAT BLOCK
THE WAY..

OLD:
GET CANDLE
IN PARAPA
PALACE.
GO WEST.

NEW:
THE CANDLE
IN PARAPA
TEMPLE CAN
LIGHT THE
WESTERN
TUNNEL.

OLD:
GORIYA OF
TANTARI
STOLE OUR
TORPHY.

NEW:
THE GORIYA
IN TANTARI
DESERT HAS
STOLEN OUR
GODDESS
STATUE.

OLD:
YOU SAVED
THE TROPHY
COME SEE
MY UNCLE.

NEW:
OH! YOU'VE
GOT OUR
STATUE!
COME TALK
TO MY
GRANDPA!

OLD:
IN PARAPA
DESERT USE
THIS MAGIC
TO SURVIVE

NEW:
THE TEMPLE
IS IN THE
PARAPA
DESERT.
PROTECT
YOURSELF
WITH THIS.

OLD:
I CANNOT
HELP YOU
ANYMORE.
GO NOW.

NEW:
I DON'T
HAVE ANY
MORE TO
TELL YOU.
GO NOW,
AND BE SAFE.

OLD:
HAMMER...
SPECTACLE
ROCK...
DEATH MTN.

NEW:
THERE IS A
SACRED
HAMMER
SOUTH OF
DEATH
MOUNTAIN.

OLD:
DO NOT GO
SOUTH
WITHOUT A
CANDLE.

NEW:
IT IS TOO
DANGEROUS
SOUTH OF
TOWN IF
YOU LACK
A CANDLE.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 06, 2018, 11:59:59 pm
Ultima. Yes, my editor is progressing. I think most of the Side View edition works correctly. I just discovered a stupid flaw in my Overworld editor, a variable that was not correctly known at the time, but for some reason, it took me a long time before realizing the UI controls are not a correct representation of the bits in one of the Key Area tables. Even though it was sitting just before my eyes. There is a distinct value for the Region and the World (those names may be confusing, but they are just a convention) where a Key Area leads to. For years, my editor considered the two bit fields as one value.

Next I'll be working on a robust save function, where hopefully the new data will use the free space in an optimal fashion.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 07, 2018, 12:24:14 pm
- A clue revealing that Bagu is hiding in an invisible square in the swamp. I had to check online for this, and discovered other players have the same problem, wondering how anyone back in the day would find him without a guide. Someone in the river town really should tell you to find the hermit hiding in the swamp. One poster online joked that he thought Bagu was the town mayor, in hiding due to Ganon's "eyes" in the town, and that's why his note has the clout to persuade the bridge guard.

Bagu's location is hinted at in-game. There's a Bot in one of the houses in Saria that will tell you its "master is N of river" if you pester it enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 07, 2018, 01:11:33 pm
For Link's palette after a spell, look for RAM $70F. If I remember correctly, it contains 0x16 if Shield is in effect. It may be relevant.
Wasn't exactly at $070F, but it did helped out to find the related addresses. Thanks!
Also, I think I managed to pin down something in your disassembly which wasn't exactly labelled, I'll explain in a bit.

@ultimaweapon:

Here we go, dude.
The related bit of code which manages what colours are set after the Spell flash are found here:

Code: [Select]
L927C                                                                          ;
lda      $69CE,y                       ; 0x128c $927C B9 CE 69                 ;
sta      $0306,x                       ; 0x128f $927F 9D 06 03                 ;
lda      $69D4,y                       ; 0x1292 $9282 B9 D4 69                 ;
sta      $0307,x                       ; 0x1295 $9285 9D 07 03                 ;
lda      $69DA,y                       ; 0x1298 $9288 B9 DA 69                 ;
sta      $0308,x                       ; 0x129b $928B 9D 08 03                 ;
lda      $074B                         ; 0x129e $928E AD 4B 07                 ;; Spell Flash Counter (bit 7 set = decor flash)
asl                                    ; 0x12a1 $9291 0A                       ;
bcs      L9296                         ; 0x12a2 $9292 B0 02                    ;
ldy      #$04                          ; 0x12a4 $9294 A0 04                    ; Y = 04

What we need to focus on, is the series of LDA/STAs which load from RAM addresses in $69CE, $69D4 and $69DA, and then store the values in RAM $0306, $0307 and $0308.
I took a look at the RAM addresses starting at $69CE, and found out that it is loading a set of palettes which were currently labelled only as "Some_Palette" in the disassembly:

Code: [Select]
Table_for_Some_Palettes                                                        ;
.byt    $12,$16,$2A,$16,$0F,$0F,$30,$01; 0x2a00 $A9F0 12 16 2A 16 0F 0F 30 01  ;
.byt    $31,$01,$18,$01,$12,$21,$30,$21; 0x2a08 $A9F8 31 01 18 01 12 21 30 21  ;
.byt    $36,$21,$30,$01,$31,$01,$2A,$11; 0x2a10 $AA00 36 21 30 01 31 01 2A 11  ;

See the $18 and $36 at locations 0x002A0A and 0x002A10 respectively?
That's the $18 for the brown colour of Link at 0x002A0A, and the $36 for the skin colour of Link at 0x002A10.
Change these two to your liking, and reload the game completely to test out the changes. DO NOT LOAD a save state, as this will load the previous values before the change, you have to get to gameplay directly from a fresh restart to see the changes take effect.
You can also modify the $2A found at 0x002A16, as this is the $2A that Link uses for his green tunic in game.

That's one less thing to worry about :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 09, 2018, 08:23:20 am
@ShadowOne - I'm going to try that on my lunch. Good thing I have a copy of my work on a flash drive.  :laugh:
I figured between you and Trax, one of you would figure it out!  Any more luck with the dialog box?

@Trax - I'm eager to see your new work. I have a mac emulator all ready to go once you launch it. LOL

@Shadic - I like the text changes you're looking to implement. Will all those changes fit in the limited space allotted?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on May 09, 2018, 09:10:57 am
@Shadic - I like the text changes you're looking to implement. Will all those changes fit in the limited space allotted?
Thanks!

I'm not sure of a maximum size limit, but they'll all fix in the 10 wide, 7 rows of text limitation that ShadowOne33 provided.

Though I am still curious about if the line width is ten, or actually eleven...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 09, 2018, 09:53:16 am
Thanks!

I'm not sure of a maximum size limit, but they'll all fix in the 10 wide, 7 rows of text limitation that ShadowOne33 provided.

Though I am still curious about if the line width is ten, or actually eleven...

I think it's really 10 but in some areas can count for an 11th if it's just a punctuation. Don't quote me on that yet. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 10, 2018, 03:54:29 pm
@ShadowOne - I'm going to try that on my lunch. Good thing I have a copy of my work on a flash drive.  :laugh:
I figured between you and Trax, one of you would figure it out!  Any more luck with the dialog box?

No luck yet :(
I've been around and around what I think it's bits of code that might be related to the empty row of tiles form the Dialog boxes, but no luck so far.
I am feeling inclined to ask Trax for some help again, since I can't figure it out yet.

May 14, 2018, 05:32:29 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Well seems like I successfully modified the palettes the way I wanted them.
Link now has the new palette and he seems to be keeping it after a spell is used.
I also took the liberty to modify the townsfolk skin tone to a more lighter shade, instead of the pinkish one.
Looks way nicer imo.

Though I don't have a functional IPS patch yet, since the text boxes are broken still.
Well, not broken, but I still have the empty tile row overwriting the above one.

@Trax, I really don't want to be a bother, but I am really hitting the wall hard here xP
I can't seem to find a way to effectively make the text box print 7 lines without overwriting the above one.
Could you please lend a helping hand to this poor soul?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 14, 2018, 10:20:16 pm
I think you suffered long enough :P . At least, you put an honest effort, and I think it's what matters.

Here's the recipe, with 4 changes:

Code: [Select]
F66A: 69 40 ADC #$40 -> F66A: 69 20 ADC #$20
F6F6: 8D 0603 STA $0306 -> F6F6: 8D 0503 STA $0305
F739: 8E 0503 STX $0305 -> F739: 8E 0603 STX $0306

And to have the text start one line lower:

F619: A9 00 LDA #$00 -> F619: A9 20 LDA #$20

In brief, what this does is: add 0x20 to the Name Table address offset (RAM 48A for Y offset) instead of 0x40 when a line break happens, swap the values set to 305 and 306, and start the first line at offset 0x20 instead of 0 (RAM 489 for X offset).

Now, for the complete explanations. When you deal with background tiles, like in this case, you have understand the concept of Name Tables. Those are memory spaces in PPU RAM that determine every tile code that is drawn on screen. They are layered out on a 0x20 x 0x1C matrix, which is enough to cover the entire sreen. Name Table 0 starts at 0x2000 in PPU RAM (not CPU RAM, it would be an invalid address anyway). Name Table 1 at 0x2400. The NES allows up to 4 Name Tables, but Zelda II uses 2, for horizontal scrolling in Side View mode. I'm not sure what setup is used for Overworld, though.

When a text box is being drawn, some weird arthmetic is done to determine where in the Name Table(s) the initial offset of the box, and then the first text letter, will be. Most of the time, you are somewhere between the boundaries of the 2 Name Tables, because you are not either on the extreme left or right of the current area. This part is done somewhere else and is not modified for this hack. However, little aparté, it's what makes it so hard to actually modify the text box size.

Because a Name Table is 0x20 (32 decimal) tiles wide (the number of tiles you can have in a horizontal row that covers the entire width of the screen), adding 0x20 to the Name Table offset address is the equivalent of going exactly one tile down on the screen. Adding 0x40 will go down 2 tiles. Hence, the change from 0x40 to 0x20 at F66A in the code. Of course, if you only do that (and that's probably what ShadowOne tried), the first line will draw okay, but the second line will erase the previous one. That's because each letter that is drawn is actually two tiles high, to account for the eventual accent tile, which is not needed in English, but is in Japanese.

If you swap the two tiles (letter and accent tiles), you effectively write the letter in the UPPER part of the two-tile group, and the lower part is always en empty tile, which only deletes what's below the current line being drawn. And that, we don't care, because there's nothing there to begin with. The only caveat is that if we draw up to the last line, we will delete the lower border of the text box. That's why we can't have 8 lines, only 7.

The tile codes in 305 and 306 represent, respectively, the accent character (the upper tile), and the letter character (the lower tile), in the PPU Macro we discussed earlier in this thread. If we put the letter in 305 and the accent in 306, we get the result we want, without having lines of text deleted in the process.

So that's it. I can show you a screenshot of what it's supposed to look like using one of Shadic's new translations. Or I can let ShadowOne do the honors. By the way, if you really don't want to touch any border of the text box, then you are actually limited to 6 lines of text. But you can use the last line if you think it's esthetically acceptable. The original game uses the bottom line.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 01:05:56 pm
Oh wow @Trax, thank you SO much for the very detailed information, it certainly helped out a lot to understand how each bit of change worked and what it did for the end result.

I was SO close with the changes in the $0305 and $0306 addresses, but I was changing 303 and 304 haha, I never thought about changing those two :(
Oh and btw, the addresses you wrote are not PC addresses, but rather the NES addresses.
The PC addresses for those are:
Code: [Select]
0x00F629: A9 00 LDA #$00 -> 0x00F629: A9 20 LDA #$20
0x00F67A: 69 40 ADC #$40 -> 0x00F67A: 69 20 ADC #$20
0x00F706: 8D 06 03 STA $0306 -> 0x00F706: 8D 05 03 STA $0305
0x00F749: 8E 05 03 STX $0305 -> 0x00F749: 8E 06 03 STX $0306
Just for those that would like to find the code through a Hex editor :)


So, here is the latest patch with the palettes and new dialog box changes :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0



And here's a little example I made out of the sign in Rauru :P

(https://imgur.com/kqo663k.png)

Thank you SO much, Trax, seriously.
That was of great help to be able to expand the text and be able to have a little more liberty with the text instead of being limited to what he had previously.

I will start redoing some bits of text once I am done with the balancing of some more enemies :)
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: TheFireRed on May 16, 2018, 02:39:28 pm
So, here is the latest patch with the palettes and new dialog box changes :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Congrats on your project and your effort so far! I wanted to test this patch it seems to do nothing. I used both FLIPS and LIPS and the checksum of the patched file matches with the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on May 16, 2018, 03:26:31 pm
That looks great! It's amazing what just removing the dakuten spaces can do to get you a little extra space.

You have already sped up the text drawing speed, right? It'd make sense, because Japanese is read and parsed more slowly than English as a result of being able to convey more with fewer characters.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 04:23:01 pm
You have already sped up the text drawing speed, right? It'd make sense, because Japanese is read and parsed more slowly than English as a result of being able to convey more with fewer characters.
That is correct :)
The text drawing speed has already been sped up.
This so that it doesn't take ages just to load "HELLO!" unto the screen xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 16, 2018, 04:50:03 pm
Now that looks awesome ShadowOne!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 16, 2018, 05:32:12 pm
I just tried the latest patch and it would seem nothing was changed. Did you link the wrong patch or make a mistake in making it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 16, 2018, 05:35:47 pm
I just tried the latest patch and it would seem nothing was changed. Did you link the wrong patch or make a mistake in making it?
It might have been a mistake on my part.
Could you try again?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 16, 2018, 10:42:14 pm
It might have been a mistake on my part.
Could you try again?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Cool. It's working great now. The fast text is nice, though the spacing between lines is a little too tight. Maybe a pixel or two space might look better, unless it's for other reasons, like fixing up the translation. 

It felt satisfying yet surprising to kill a Bubble with ease. The hearts look great.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 17, 2018, 06:51:54 am
@ShadowOne - With your update to the dialog box, I'm hoping I can create some better messages than those default messages. BTW, I haven't tried those pallette color changes yet, but  I will try tonight and let you know if that was the right location.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 17, 2018, 09:59:48 am
unless it's for other reasons, like fixing up the translation.
That's exactly the main reason why I wanted to get this working, and thanks to the great help of Trax now it's possible :)
Now I can repoint the text and rework the translation to better fit a more adequate localization.
Bagu will be Bug and I may keep the Error guy too, because those are as iconic as they get :P
But the rest of the text might see a lift-up in translation.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 20, 2018, 08:51:18 pm
Rodimus. It's impossible to change the distance between lines of text, because they are part of the background, and background tiles are layered out as a matrix of 8x8 pixels tiles. There is no "in-between".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 21, 2018, 09:55:09 am
Rodimus. It's impossible to change the distance between lines of text, because they are part of the background, and background tiles are layered out as a matrix of 8x8 pixels tiles. There is no "in-between".

Oh ok. I wasn't aware but I was merely pointing it out how it looks visually speaking. Either way, it's awesome that this game will get the TLC it so rightly deserves.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on May 21, 2018, 12:59:43 pm
And about the moving water and lava animations on the Overworld, is there any progress? Apparently other hacks like "Journey of a Day", "Leaf of Inertia" and "Shadow of Night" have already achieved this effect. But great work this hack too. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 21, 2018, 05:10:18 pm
And about the moving water and lava animations on the Overworld, is there any progress? Apparently other hacks like "Journey of a Day", "Leaf of Inertia" and "Shadow of Night" have already achieved this effect. But great work this hack too. :thumbsup:
Not yet.
That's something I still haven't even looked at, not attempted in any way.
That and the possible restoration of the Dragon Quest reference are still way down in the list of things to do, and perhaps even need help with, but we'll see :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 22, 2018, 08:02:32 am
Not yet.
That's something I still haven't even looked at, not attempted in any way.
That and the possible restoration of the Dragon Quest reference are still way down in the list of things to do, and perhaps even need help with, but we'll see :)

I know you said you were planning to reach out to JaSp outside of RHDN to see how to do it. It would be pretty cool to see how it's done.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on May 22, 2018, 05:16:40 pm
Jeez, you would have quite a long list to work through. I was surprised that even with having such a long list of things to add that you added in this text box fix that I hadn't even considered. Additional lines of fast loading dialog will make a lot of difference in the future of this hack. You can actually write a bit of story. Are you able to have multiple text boxes in succession so you could have a character of importance actually tell you a lengthy story? If so I have a lot of suggestions that could really make a difference in game. I'm glad either way that you're tackling the foundation of the game early on. It'll make things easier in the long run.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 24, 2018, 09:56:54 am
I know you said you were planning to reach out to JaSp outside of RHDN to see how to do it. It would be pretty cool to see how it's done.
I did try to reach him through an email I found in one of the sites linked to him, though I am not sure if he checks the mail often, nor if he still has that account.
Do you have any other idea as to where I could contact him?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 24, 2018, 05:41:59 pm
Unfortunately know. Trax or IcePenguin might know. I'm trying to go through the code of Shadow Of Night to see if there are any clues there. You, Trax, Njosro, IcePenguin are much better than me. Maybe you can figure something out looking through the code for Shadow Of Night.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 25, 2018, 09:55:55 pm
Oh well, if someone knows a way to contact him, please tell me so through PM.
This last week has been somewhat slow on this project because work's got me by the ballz, but after this Saturday things should resume to a stable basis :P

I am currently working on two hacking projects, this and another one
The other one I haven't mentioned publicly yet, and that one has seen priority due to a recent development made past month, which opened up the doors to the project I had in mind for years which can now become a reality.

I will still continue with this one here and there, so expect sporadic updates on this one :)
Next up should be enemies, right now I am thinking on adding Experience points to all enemies, even those that do not give you anything in vanilla Zelda II (though they will still give low Exp), so now killing enemies should not feel as meh as before.

Right now only the Bubbles and the Mother Fokka's have been edited to make the way through them a more enjoyable experience, and if you guys have any suggestions, drop them here, and I'll take them into consideration for rebalancing :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on May 25, 2018, 10:27:56 pm
Oh well, if someone knows a way to contact him, please tell me so through PM.
This last week has been somewhat slow on this project because work's got me by the ballz, but after this Saturday things should resume to a stable basis :P

I am currently working on two hacking projects, this and another one
The other one I haven't mentioned publicly yet, and that one has seen priority due to a recent development made past month, which opened up the doors to the project I had in mind for years which can now become a reality.

I will still continue with this one here and there, so expect sporadic updates on this one :)
Next up should be enemies, right now I am thinking on adding Experience points to all enemies, even those that do not give you anything in vanilla Zelda II (though they will still give low Exp), so now killing enemies should not feel as meh as before.

Right now only the Bubbles and the Mother Fokka's have been edited to make the way through them a more enjoyable experience, and if you guys have any suggestions, drop them here, and I'll take them into consideration for rebalancing :)

I'm working on a new Zelda 2 project myself. I also have another game I'm going to start on shortly. I do have an idea or 2 for you, but I'll pm those to you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 28, 2018, 02:09:39 pm
Quick question, ultimaweapon.

I'm going through the enemy attribute tables, editing both the Experience steal and Experience points bits, but I can't remember at the moment...
Do I need to edit something else in order to have the proper Experience points show up when you kill the enemy?
I can't recall at the moment.

I haven't finished the table yet, so I haven't looked into it, but it struck me as I was going through it.


EDIT:
Huh well, from what I can tell I think you don't need to edit the Experience points, as long as you are going for Exp amounts that are already found in the game.

So with that said, here's a new patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

This one should have all enemies give out some amount of Exp, even the most dull ones.
I would need some testing here for enemies found in Palaces, as I feel some of them might require an additional Exp boost than what I gave them.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on May 29, 2018, 02:12:12 am
The answer is in Bank 7 :

Code: [Select]
1DD4C: Table for Enemy Experience Tile Mapping Codes (2 * 10 = 20 bytes)

F5 = Nothing
A0 = 10
A2 = 5
A4 = 2
A6 = 7
60 = 3
6C = 15
9C = 0
9E = 00

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 A4 60 A2 A6 A0 6C A4 60 A2 A6 A0
F5 A4 60 A2 A0 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9C 9E 9E 9E 9E 9E

First row for the left tile, and the second row for the right tile. So yes, you have to change the tile mappings if you want the correct digits to show up. As long as all your types of experience can be built with these tiles, you're okay. If I recall correctly, the Japanese version has a "1 point" experience code, but doesn't have the "7" digit tile.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 30, 2018, 11:49:59 am
Oh so I was not that off after all.
I ended up using Experience amounts that the game already uses, so fortunately I won't need to modify the Tile mapping for the experience points, though it's a good thing to know in case I need to add some custom amounts :)

Thanks for the info, Trax!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on May 30, 2018, 11:21:19 pm
It might be worth changing exp into rupees like in Revility's hack. It really felt like a good change. Switch out the P Bags for a large Rupee instead. Then it's like you're spending Rupees for upgrades :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on May 31, 2018, 11:29:07 am
It might be worth changing exp into rupees like in Revility's hack. It really felt like a good change. Switch out the P Bags for a large Rupee instead. Then it's like you're spending Rupees for upgrades :3
That's actually a pretty neat idea.
I never thought about it, but could make sense, since Zelda II is the only game which doesn't feature Rupees in one way or another, and is also the only one to feature an Experience system (that I know of) out of all the Zeldas.
Implementing Rupees would bring it more in line with the rest of the franchise.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 02, 2018, 06:29:45 am
That's actually a pretty neat idea.
I never thought about it, but could make sense, since Zelda II is the only game which doesn't feature Rupees in one way or another, and is also the only one to feature an Experience system (that I know of) out of all the Zeldas.
Implementing Rupees would bring it more in line with the rest of the franchise.

Revility implemented it quite well and changed a few in game items to bring it in line with the series as a whole. It would be worth having a look through his changes because he did an amazing job.

THIS (https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3716/) title screen is a must even if you edit it because it's be far the most accurate to the artwork i've seen. That hack has a decent link sprite but I think I prefer Revility's as the sword is a tad longer and it felt really good to play through the game with.

I love the way you implemented hearts. It might be worth trying to get the magic meter to be green as then it'll match every other magic meter.
Still, changes like this will likely be down the list for you with all the foundation editing you're doing. Seriously, all that extra space for dialog is going to go a long way :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 04, 2018, 01:37:20 pm
I think I already mentioned it before, but basically I can't add another colour to the HUD without sacrificing an already existing one.
Right now the HUD uses 3 colours: White, blue and red (4th one is transparency).

So I would have to change one of those three to accommodate for the green colour for the magic meter, and green doesn't look good next to the hearts lol.
So yeah, I can't do much about the magic sadly, but I'll see if I can manage to make something work for sure.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 04, 2018, 10:22:35 pm
Oh my bad dude. I though you might've been able to draw from Link's sprite palette. I'm just brainstorming here man. I know how high you can set the bar (that being high af after LttP Redux, ie: the best version I ever played) Small changes can go a long way sometimes
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 12:30:45 pm
Oh my bad dude. I though you might've been able to draw from Link's sprite palette. I'm just brainstorming here man. I know how high you can set the bar (that being high af after LttP Redux, ie: the best version I ever played) Small changes can go a long way sometimes
Hey don't worry :P
It's good to brainstorm, could give some nice ideas!
The palette limitation could still be circumvent in one way or another, I just need to try several things first, but given how there are more important things to be worked on (Script, enemy balancing), it's resting at the bottom of things to look at :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on June 05, 2018, 12:50:01 pm
Are you still wanting script help? I just got back from a long vacation and can actually help out now.

Do you know if the line length is actually 10 or 11 characters? It actually would change a lot.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 02:22:58 pm
Are you still wanting script help? I just got back from a long vacation and can actually help out now.

Do you know if the line length is actually 10 or 11 characters? It actually would change a lot.
Any help is welcome :)
You can grab the latest beta from the OP, patch it over a ROM and work with that.
There's a link in the OP as well of the whole script comparison between japanese, english and a proper translation, so we can use that as the base.

Do you know how to start repointing and writing the script?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on June 05, 2018, 04:00:59 pm
Repointing... No. I can hex edit just fine, is there a guide on repointing text pointers?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 05, 2018, 04:47:17 pm
Repointing... No. I can hex edit just fine, is there a guide on repointing text pointers?
I know there should be quite a few, but I always edit pointers manually as well (Hex editing).
I already have the list of pointers, but you can find them here:
https://lemmy.neocities.org/zelda2/bank3_and_7.txt

The text table begins at 0xE390, and the pointer table starts at 0xEFCE.

Take into consideration that the pointers take the NES address and not PC, so for the first text (PLEASE LET ME HELP YOU. COME INSIDE.) you have the "PLEASE L" letters here:

Code: [Select]
bank3_Dialogs_Text_Table                                                       ;
.byt    $E9,$E5,$DE,$DA,$EC,$DE,$F4,$E5; 0xe390 $A380 E9 E5 DE DA EC DE F4 E5  ;

The important bit is the $A380, that's the starting point for the text, and that's what the pointer table uses:

Code: [Select]
bank3_Dialogs_Pointer_Table_Towns_in_West_Hyrule                               ;
.word    bank3_Dialogs_Text_Table      ; 0xefce $AFBE 80 A3

As you can see, the first pointer is a couple of bytes [80 A3], but in reality this is in endian, and the pointer is [A3 80], or in other words $A380.
So all you need to do is, let's say you want to use the next unused space of the ROM for the new text, then you have to edit the pointer at 0xEFCE from A3 80 to what the NES address of where the unused area starts.

For example, there is free space starting at 0xF813, or $B803 in NES address, so you simply modify the [A3 80] for [B8 03], but in the ROM you write it as [03 B8].

I believe you can convert PC Address to NES address by subtracting 0x4010 from the PC address (E390 - 4010 = A380), so if you end up doubting what NES address is the location you want to put your code in, simply grab the PC address from the Hex editor and subtract in hex 4010 from it, and that's the NES address that you should write in the pointer locations.

Once you do that, the text that should be printed will no longer be grabbed from its original location, but rather whatever text  you start typing at B803.

That is what I did to make the Rauru sign's mockup image a few pages ago found here:

(https://imgur.com/kqo663k.png)

Let me know if you have any more questions.
Also, don't forget to close each text table with FF at the end of whatever you write, or else the text will continue to be printed on-screen, and this will end up in a text overflow.

You can grab the TBL file for the text editing from Data Crystal.
As for the question about 10/11 characters, I'm not sure yet, I haven't tried pushing 11 to each line and see if it respects the 11 or if it overflows. Try it yourself if you can :P
10 is the safe number in case anything happens.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 20, 2018, 11:05:56 am
Just for those wondering, nope, this hack is not dead :P
I just won't be able to make progress on it during these weeks due to being on vacations.
I might be able to go back to this maybe mid to late July, or starting in August, but rest assured this thing will be finished for sure ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on June 22, 2018, 09:28:37 am
It would be nice if someone could figure out how to change the music. I just played a Zelda 1 hack where someone changed the dungeon music to the dungeon music from A Link To The Past. Now, that's something I would love to do with the palace music of Zelda 2. If someone can show me how to do that, I'd be indebted to you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on June 22, 2018, 10:02:38 pm
RAM for music is $EB. Look for every place where you have a store command to $EB and you can change the music playing. Music and sound effects in Zelda II are usually formatted as a single bit field, but I've seen codes like C0 too. I think zero means no sound and 80 means mute music. So, try with bytes that have only one bit set, aka powers of 2 (in hex) : 1, 2, 4, 8, 10, 20, 40, 80.

If you want to create new music, then you have to learn the workings of the APU. This is very hard.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on June 23, 2018, 09:52:43 am
I would want to take a song from another game and add it to Zelda 2. I figured that would be very hard.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on June 25, 2018, 12:09:10 am
Talk to Optomon. He made the entire soundtack for Rogue Dawn, the best hack of Metroid to date. He's a pro when it comes to NES music.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: John Enigma on June 25, 2018, 02:14:33 pm
I'm loving this.

Perhaps even more than the Easy Hack for Zelda 2.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on July 30, 2018, 03:36:55 pm
Okay guys.
After almost a month or so of vacations, I'm finally back.
Though, the last two weeks have been shit all around, but nevertheless I will try to fall back in line and finally/hopefully get things done with the new script and pointer stuff to have the reworked script working already.

As always, if you guys have suggestions or anything, please let me know.

With that said, does someone know of a tool or something that could ease up the process of repointing/writing script?
I could do it all through hex editing as I have for previous projects, but given the considerate amount of text in this game, it would be great if there was a tool that could help with this and save time out of doing it entirely in hex.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on July 31, 2018, 07:04:26 pm
My editor Sword II manages text and saves pointers accordingly, at least the townfolks part. Bank 3 does have a lot of unused space (12D1 hex, 4817 decimal, 29% of bank total), so you should not have any problem even with the extra lines of text available. However, the original ROM has the text data preceding the pointers table, and the unused space does not follow immediately. If you intend to keep the same number of dialogs, then your pointer table is fine where it is. But the text data itself should be moved, or at least the excess bytes that will surely result from more meaningful speech from townfolks.

That, I'm not sure my editor will cope. Editors that intend to expand stuff should always have some sort of data manager, where pointers to unused space are kept on the side for when new hack data goes over the current limits of the original ROM.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: UltraEpicLeader100 on August 01, 2018, 12:21:55 am
Why not update the sword on the title screen to match the American box art and the sprites accurate to the artwork?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 01, 2018, 10:47:51 am
My editor Sword II manages text and saves pointers accordingly, at least the townfolks part. Bank 3 does have a lot of unused space (12D1 hex, 4817 decimal, 29% of bank total), so you should not have any problem even with the extra lines of text available. However, the original ROM has the text data preceding the pointers table, and the unused space does not follow immediately. If you intend to keep the same number of dialogs, then your pointer table is fine where it is. But the text data itself should be moved, or at least the excess bytes that will surely result from more meaningful speech from townfolks.

That, I'm not sure my editor will cope. Editors that intend to expand stuff should always have some sort of data manager, where pointers to unused space are kept on the side for when new hack data goes over the current limits of the original ROM.

Doesn't Sword II only work on Mac though?
I unfortunately have no means of getting my hands on a Mac computer, only Windows or Linux sadly :/
I guess I will start reworking the whole script manually (Hex editing), with the help of WindHex32 in the meanwhile, just so I can load the TBL I have and see where the text is and what I have, then I'll update the pointers accordingly manually too.

I heard of Cartographer/Atlas but have zero clue as to how they work or how I would use them for such a project.

Why not update the sword on the title screen to match the American box art and the sprites accurate to the artwork?
That could me made down the road, but right now the focus is on the dialogue, once that and the enemies are done I could contemplate such a thing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on August 01, 2018, 01:19:38 pm
Doesn't Sword II only work on Mac though?
I unfortunately have no means of getting my hands on a Mac computer, only Windows or Linux sadly :/
I guess I will start reworking the whole script manually (Hex editing), with the help of WindHex32 in the meanwhile, just so I can load the TBL I have and see where the text is and what I have, then I'll update the pointers accordingly manually too.

I heard of Cartographer/Atlas but have zero clue as to how they work or how I would use them for such a project.
That could me made down the road, but right now the focus is on the dialogue, once that and the enemies are done I could contemplate such a thing.

There are programs that will allow you to emulate a Mac or basically create a virtual Mac environment to where you can use Sword II like VM Ware. That's how I used Sword I.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 01, 2018, 05:55:27 pm
Trax, you mentioned Bank 3 has a lot of unused space, and in the disassembly I noticed some unused places, but some off them are cut-off by labels which are apparently called in other subroutines.
Are those labels okay to use for new text even if they are labelled and apparently used in other places?

So far I have these four sections as possible candidates for extended text:

0xCBC1-0xD0FA, 0xD144-0xD40C, 0xDD1A-0xE009 and 0xF813-0xFF78.

The last one is the one I used for the PoC for the Rauru's Town text some posts ago.
Repointing the text manually is no issue, I already got the hang of it quite easily and by memory, I just need to make certain that none of these sections are used by some random routine (even though they are all using FF's in there) :v

Are those four sections safe to use for expanded text?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 08, 2018, 05:59:07 pm
Okay already repointed and reworked the entire script.
I found just one odd glitch:

(https://imgur.com/lfJNjS5.jpg)

As you can see, after the word "LEAVING" there's an odd glitchy symbol instead of what should be a comma.
I looked around in the PPU, and this particular tile is supposed to be tile ID $1C, but I just went through the text in a Hex editor, and there's a $9C in there, which is the tile ID for the comma. And the PPU Viewer does show up the comma as $9C as its tile ID.

Why is that tile appearing instead of the comma?
The text doesn't have $1C anywhere, it's just $9C, so I find it odd that it doesn't print out the comma as it should, and it is instead showing that sprite tile in place of the comma.
I tried putting other values there, but no matter what value I replace instead of the 9 in the 9C, it always prints out tiles from within 0-3. Like it is always either 0C, 1C, 2C or 3C, nothing after the 30 row gets printed out no matter what.


Heck even the TBL in Data Crystal shows that 9C=, so I am REALLY confused xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: BlazeHeatnix on August 09, 2018, 04:21:12 am
One thing I would appreciate is something that shows exactly how much magic you have remaining. Like 60/100 or whatever. It's hard to judge how much of your bar is enough to use the Life spell for example.

I also strongly urge you to please use caution when rebalancing enemies. The way this patch is right now, the game is already perfectly fair. Ideally, I'd like this hack, if it aims to become the definitive version of the game, to maintain a pinch of fake difficulty, because Zelda II is one of the all-time classic high-tier challenges for the NES. Near-death situations that demand perfection from the player, but a perfection that stems from practice, not memorization or exploiting. Much like Contra, or Dark Souls. Maintaining that element is key to Zelda II's appeal, and just by rewriting the text, adding checkpoints at the start of Palace's, increasing EXP gain and preventing EXP loss, you've eliminated pretty much all of the bullshit Zelda II had to begin with. So going further, please be sure to consider how it affects the game's difficulty and consider alternate patches for those who still prefer the original challenge.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 09, 2018, 12:02:35 pm
One thing I would appreciate is something that shows exactly how much magic you have remaining. Like 60/100 or whatever. It's hard to judge how much of your bar is enough to use the Life spell for example.

I also strongly urge you to please use caution when rebalancing enemies. The way this patch is right now, the game is already perfectly fair. Ideally, I'd like this hack, if it aims to become the definitive version of the game, to maintain a pinch of fake difficulty, because Zelda II is one of the all-time classic high-tier challenges for the NES. Near-death situations that demand perfection from the player, but a perfection that stems from practice, not memorization or exploiting. Much like Contra, or Dark Souls. Maintaining that element is key to Zelda II's appeal, and just by rewriting the text, adding checkpoints at the start of Palace's, increasing EXP gain and preventing EXP loss, you've eliminated pretty much all of the bullshit Zelda II had to begin with. So going further, please be sure to consider how it affects the game's difficulty and consider alternate patches for those who still prefer the original challenge.  :)

To be honest, I think the enemy rebalancing will be very minimal after this.
I think the only changes so far could be those mentioned in the OP, but out of that I don't think I'll be making any more modifications to the enemies, since I think the most annoying stuff about enemies is already out of the way, like the Bubbles, EXP draining and, the Modafokas, and stuff like that.

Enemy changes should be minimal, if maybe none at all after I am done with the script changes.

I just need to figure out what the hell is going on with the comma not appearing so I can release another beta patch.
I already have all of the new text repointed and inserted into the game, it's just that stupid comma. xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Mister Xiado on August 10, 2018, 05:42:46 am
Why is that tile appearing instead of the comma?
The text doesn't have $1C anywhere, it's just $9C, so I find it odd that it doesn't print out the comma as it should, and it is instead showing that sprite tile in place of the comma.
I tried putting other values there, but no matter what value I replace instead of the 9 in the 9C, it always prints out tiles from within 0-3. Like it is always either 0C, 1C, 2C or 3C, nothing after the 30 row gets printed out no matter what.


Heck even the TBL in Data Crystal shows that 9C=, so I am REALLY confused xD
I noticed the same issue in Metal Gear. When you pick up the mine detector on the west end of building 1's roof, the electric floor switch panels become borked sprites of the mine detector's pickup sprite. The PPU loads the proper sprites in advance, and as soon as the item is grabbed, seems to load the wrong image thereafter. I wasn't able to locate the spot in the code that messes up the table, so for now, that bug remains in place. The real pain seems to be finding how the game assembles a tile table in the first place. Fixing that would prevent the wrong data from being thrown.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on August 11, 2018, 11:59:04 am
Okay already repointed and reworked the entire script.
I found just one odd glitch:

(https://imgur.com/lfJNjS5.jpg)

As you can see, after the word "LEAVING" there's an odd glitchy symbol instead of what should be a comma.
I looked around in the PPU, and this particular tile is supposed to be tile ID $1C, but I just went through the text in a Hex editor, and there's a $9C in there, which is the tile ID for the comma. And the PPU Viewer does show up the comma as $9C as its tile ID.

Why is that tile appearing instead of the comma?
The text doesn't have $1C anywhere, it's just $9C, so I find it odd that it doesn't print out the comma as it should, and it is instead showing that sprite tile in place of the comma.
I tried putting other values there, but no matter what value I replace instead of the 9 in the 9C, it always prints out tiles from within 0-3. Like it is always either 0C, 1C, 2C or 3C, nothing after the 30 row gets printed out no matter what.


Heck even the TBL in Data Crystal shows that 9C=, so I am REALLY confused xD

Go to ROM offset F704 and F705 and change the values to EA. Then you'll get a comma. (EA is a NOP instruction which we're using here to overwrite an AND instruction.)

What is happening with the weird character is that it's code ported over from the Japanese version that sometimes had to put those markings above the Japanese characters. There was a certain signal (via bit 7 and bit 6 of the character code to be printed) that specified whether to do this. If the right combo of bit 7 and bit 6 appeared in the character code, then the game would do its special thing, and then AND mask the character code to clear bits 6 and 7. In your case, 9C became 1C.

I figured this out when I was researching a method to add accent support to my Zelda 2 dialog editor. It came in handy after all :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on August 11, 2018, 08:07:52 pm
ShadowOne. You are strictly in ROM territory, so you can do whatever you want with the unused space in this bank. There is no special loading process to RAM with text anyway. It's up to you to manage the unused space according to how you intend to expand on certain parts of the ROM. If you think you won't touch the data or code in a specific part, then you can insert your new data right after. But if you have any reasonable doubt, you can leave a few 10s of FF bytes of padding, just in case.

There's one nuance that doesn't appear in my disassembly docs, which I just realized while confirming what I'm writing here. There are actually two tables for dialogue pointers, one for West Hyrule towns and one for East Hyrule towns. This makes 34 (52 decimal) dialogs in West Hyrule and 2E (46 decimal) dialogs in East Hyrule. Maybe you have already figured this out. The West Hyrule pointer is EFBE, and the East Hyrule pointer is F026. These two pointers are in a table at F423.

If you intend to have more than the original 98 text strings, then your pointer tables will have to be moved, because they don't have any unused space right after. They are the elements that can't be broken in multiple parts. It's not a big deal to move them around, since you have plenty of unused space to play with. You just have to change the pointers in the table at F423 accordingly.

As for Njosro, he's right on point about accented characters. The code ported to the American version is fully functional, but the letter codes are never supposed to undergo a change of bits. Since you have no intention to add accented characters support, removing that feature is no big deal. Hats off to Njosro for finding THE byte that lets you do that. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 13, 2018, 10:15:37 am
Go to ROM offset F704 and F705 and change the values to EA. Then you'll get a comma. (EA is a NOP instruction which we're using here to overwrite an AND instruction.)

What is happening with the weird character is that it's code ported over from the Japanese version that sometimes had to put those markings above the Japanese characters. There was a certain signal (via bit 7 and bit 6 of the character code to be printed) that specified whether to do this. If the right combo of bit 7 and bit 6 appeared in the character code, then the game would do its special thing, and then AND mask the character code to clear bits 6 and 7. In your case, 9C became 1C.

I figured this out when I was researching a method to add accent support to my Zelda 2 dialog editor. It came in handy after all :)
YES!
That's the bit of code that did the trick, indeed!
Now all commas should work properly :)

And with that...

New Beta!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0


This new patch should have all of the text rewritten and repointed.
And I mean ALL of it.
So this one requires quite a bit of playtesting.
From what I've played through the first minutes of the game, it all seems fine so far.
I only found one typo, which I fixed (a lady in Rauru saying "YOUNG FWLLOW" instead of "YOUNG FELLOW")

If anyone finds any other typos or perhaps something odd regarding any text, please let me know and provide an image so that I can see exactly what the error is and fix it asap.
Another thing, for the person that was asking previously about the character limit per row, it's actually 11 characters and not 10 like I thought it was.
11 is the limit before the text starts overflowing out of the text box.

ShadowOne. You are strictly in ROM territory, so you can do whatever you want with the unused space in this bank. There is no special loading process to RAM with text anyway. It's up to you to manage the unused space according to how you intend to expand on certain parts of the ROM. If you think you won't touch the data or code in a specific part, then you can insert your new data right after. But if you have any reasonable doubt, you can leave a few 10s of FF bytes of padding, just in case.

There's one nuance that doesn't appear in my disassembly docs, which I just realized while confirming what I'm writing here. There are actually two tables for dialogue pointers, one for West Hyrule towns and one for East Hyrule towns. This makes 34 (52 decimal) dialogs in West Hyrule and 2E (46 decimal) dialogs in East Hyrule. Maybe you have already figured this out. The West Hyrule pointer is EFBE, and the East Hyrule pointer is F026. These two pointers are in a table at F423.

If you intend to have more than the original 98 text strings, then your pointer tables will have to be moved, because they don't have any unused space right after. They are the elements that can't be broken in multiple parts. It's not a big deal to move them around, since you have plenty of unused space to play with. You just have to change the pointers in the table at F423 accordingly.

As for Njosro, he's right on point about accented characters. The code ported to the American version is fully functional, but the letter codes are never supposed to undergo a change of bits. Since you have no intention to add accented characters support, removing that feature is no big deal. Hats off to Njosro for finding THE byte that lets you do that. :thumbsup:
You mean the point in which both the West Hyrule pointers end and where the East Hyrule ones begin?
If that's so, yeah I did figure it out, I simply made an hex search using the text bank just to be sure those were the correct pointers for East Hyrule.
Besides, they're right next to each other, so no loss there :P
Thanks for jumping in with the clarification though! Really appreciated.

Also, I changed all of the pointers already, and moved a portion of the text to the B8XX bank.
I wrote all the text right next to each other, so perhaps I should've followed your advice of leaving some bytes in between each line, but I managed to fit all that I wanted nicely :)
I struggled with like a couple pair of sentences, but they came up pretty good at the end.
I noticed even the pointer for the Dragon Quest reference is there, but apparently never called in-game.



Anyway, to anyone who wants to give this new test patch a try, please do so and let me know how it goes!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 13, 2018, 11:21:11 am
Just updated to the new beta and was curious what the new introductory text after the title screen had to say. I also am noting a couple other issues I came across in the first two towns

https://imgur.com/yLOMpKK

A couple issues jumped out at me. I don't think casting a spell "in" someone makes sense. Also the line "another princess Zelda" confused me. I checked into it online and there are theories apparently that this Zelda is different than the one in the original Legend of Zelda. Those seem kinda fringe though, with most people considering Zelda II to be a direct sequel to the first with the same princess Zelda. I checked the original English text and these issues were not present.

https://imgur.com/a/Nz2mB0v

For this text, I found "balance the three levels" to be overly cryptic. Is he talking about the triforce? I think clarification would be in order, even if the comment is designed to be a little cryptic.

https://imgur.com/a/NP1BIaM

Clearly a typo with the missing space between keys and in

Btw, I haven't played this beta since the beginning of this thread, and the difference in quality of how you rendered the life bar hearts between then and now is spectacular. Bravo!  :woot!:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on August 13, 2018, 11:39:06 am
Yeah that title text is a bit sketchy. It would be more accurate if it were along the lines of:

Some time after the fall of Ganon,
a wizard appeared and cast a sleeping
spell upon Princess Zelda. Impa told
Link the only way to break the spell
was to find the Triforce of Courage.

If you had extra characters you could mention the Great Palace, the Prince, the death of the King, etc
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 13, 2018, 11:54:35 am
I agree, actually I've been thinking about the intro quite a bit in the last few days.
The whole "Another Zelda" stuff is really sketchy, I also believe it would work better if it was the same Zelda, why the hell would they have another Zelda somewhere else?

Here's what the japanese translation says for that part:

Quote from: Japanese intro
SEVERAL YEARS AFTER GANNON
WAS DESTROYED,LINK LEARNS
FROM IMPA ABOUT THE ANOTH-
ER SLEEPING PRINCESS ZELDA.
HE IS TOLD SHE CAN ONLY
AWAKEN WITH THE NO.3 TRY-
FORCE SEALED IN THE GREAT
SANCTUARY AT DISVALLEY. TO
REMOVE THE SEAL, CRYSTALS
MUST BE EMBEDDED INTO A
STONE STATUE STANDING IN
6 SANCTUARIS.
LINK SETS OUT ON AN
ADVENTUROUS QUEST…
©1987 NINTENDO

Perhaps I could simply remove the "ANOTHER" reference and keep it simply as the same Zelda from Zelda I, like this:

Quote from: New possible intro text
AFTER GANON WAS DESTROYED,
IMPA TOLD LINK ABOUT A
SLEEPING SPELL CAST BY A
WIZARD TO PRINCESS ZELDA.

As for extra space, I sadly don't have much to work with.
At most I can add like 20 more characters and I'll be hitting the limit for the intro text, so I don't think I can add that much info into it, the way I managed to fit everything was just enough to make it look perfectly readable and not as cramped up as the original.

Oh and the "three levels" thing refers to the actual three levels of the game: Life, Magic and Attack.

------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Patch updated to address the points made by Chicken Knife and Shade Aurion.
Same link. :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on August 13, 2018, 12:20:51 pm
It's canon that Zelda in Zelda II is in fact different than the Zelda from the first game, though. The manual and Hyrule Historia explicitly state as much.

Rewriting that because it's not convenient to explain in the introduction... Doesn't seem like a good reason at all.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 13, 2018, 12:21:49 pm
I like your revision, but I think it would be more proper to render "sleeping spell cast by a wizard on princess Zelda"

Same number of characters

As for the three levels thing, maybe I'm the only one who was confused by that text but maybe not.

Not sure if you have space, but something like "balance your three attributes" would have made it immediately clear

Also, I've looked into it further and Shadic is right. This was a different Zelda from ages prior who has long been asleep. The only thing going against this narrative is the incorrect original translation. I agree with maintaining accuracy to the story even if it's confusing
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 13, 2018, 12:41:04 pm
@Shadic's right, both the manual and Historia do mention this.
The Zelda seen in Zelda II is actually an ancestor of the one in Zelda I.
The whole story mentions why all female descendants are named Zelda too.

So the way I might tackle this is that I will try to rework the intro in a way that says that Impa told Link about the sleeping spell put in an ancestor of princess Zelda (the original Zelda) but how I will rework the intro is still something I'm not sure of.

I will give this a bit of a thought during the week and see what I can come up with.
If anyone else has suggestions as well for this, be sure to drop them by!
The current limit per row in the intro is around 28 characters, with 14 lines to work with (15th is reserved for the "@1987 Nintendo" copyright text).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 13, 2018, 12:46:17 pm
Sounds like the right approach to the intro ShadowOne333.

One other thing: have you thought at all about separating the patches that reduce game difficulty from the rest of the aesthetic and textual improvements?

As I play this, I find myself a little nostalgic for the original difficulty, especially in the fact that I never run out of magic now between the reduced consumption rates and the higher potion drop rates. I agree that the game was overall on the punishing side and this version is probably the ideal way for new players to tackle the game. But as someone who grew up with the original difficulty and mastered it, I find myself sorta longing for that challenge.

* Update to this comment: while I still think choices are good, I definitely find the game to still have a healthy challenge and as I have now gone through the 5th palace. I think the main difference is you don't have to spend time grinding xp to up your ability levels. Overall, I think I will be playing this version's difficulty.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on August 13, 2018, 02:07:31 pm
How about if you did the intro something like this that would definitely fit:

AFTER GANON WAS DESTROYED,
IMPA INFORMED LINK THAT A
SLEEP SPELL WAS CAST ON AN 
ANCESTOR OF PRINCESS ZELDA.
SHE CAN ONLY BE AWAKEN WITH
THE POWER OF THE TRIFORCE OF
COURAGE SEALED IN THE GREAT
PALACE. TO REMOVE THE SEAL,
CRYSTALS MUST BE PLACED IN
STATUES IN 6 WELL GUARDED
PALACES.
LINK SET OUT ON HIS MOST   
ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 13, 2018, 05:51:17 pm
https://imgur.com/a/d6bL1m5

I find this text in Nabooru problematic because it's posed as a question when it's not a question.

I DREW SOME WATER would make more sense and match the way this was handled in Saria when you picked up the mirror from under the table

https://imgur.com/a/0KS6R8z

This is the text from the lady in Darunia who wants you to save her child. It all came out mangled for some reason.

https://imgur.com/a/nW9XF3G

After bringing back the child to the same lady, she invites you to "COME TO MY HOUSE". Sounds awkward when you are standing directly in front of her house. I'd change it to COME IN MY HOUSE

This isn't a text issue, but the following has always felt off to me. When you are walking down a road and knock out a rock with the hammer and walk over the tile, it always triggers a monster encounter. It's just a small annoyance if anything, but I feel like beneath the bolder should be treated the same as the road tiles. Would be a cool little thing to fix if you agree and the programming was easy.

Something that seems to be a minor glitch: on two occasions when battling enemies I saw the HUD information on top of the screen quickly flash with alternating screens of garbage characters. It only lasted a second or two on each occasion. I was unable to do a screen grab in both cases.

Another issue: I just received my seventh spell in the hidden forest town and I see that it still has the hilariously inept original English name of "SPELL". I have to shake my head being reminded of how incredibly terrible our localizations were in the mid to late eighties. I'm curious what the translation of the Japanese is here. Needless to say, I think any name for this spell would be better than SPELL.

Another small thing that always annoyed me: the orange lizalfos gives you 150xp. The red lizalfos is stronger (takes an extra hit to kill) but only gives 100xp. It's the only instance I can think of where the xp doesn't match an enemy type's difficulty progression. I would switch them.

*Update: I finished my playthrough. During my trek through the great palace it was a bit odd that the king bubble enemies did not appear where they were supposed to. I didn't see any of them on my trip and I'm pretty sure I knew where they should have shown up. Also, while there was nothing explicitly wrong, the end game text where Zelda thanks you for saving Hyrule comes across to me as super generic. I'm not sure what I would do with it exactly, but it just doesn't have any of the mystery or epicness I would expect from a Zelda game's closing scene. Felt like one of those old school "thank you for playing" kind of endings.

Overall though, I had a wonderful time going this through. As I said in a post above, I didn't have to grind at all and the difficulty was just right. My power levels capped out at the end of the sixth palace just when they should have. With a few little things yet to be fixed, you have put together an amazing version of the game that addresses everybody's gripes and brings out how brilliant this really was for its time. I eagerly await making another run of the final product!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on August 13, 2018, 11:47:56 pm
A lot of details can be added to NPC lines of text in towns and such throughout the game. Hell, you could even add a sprite for Impa beside Zelda to detail things a bit more. I'd just try and keep the basics. Mention the wizard casting the sleeping spell, mention the prince. Hell you could even add a Prince sprite to the King's grave to explain the wizard took him over.

It's canon that the wizard dies but this could be easily explained away by it fulfilling it's purpose in putting a sleeping curse on Zelda and it being Agahnim or the Shadow of Ganon. The latter being a better option as the Shadow could later morph into Shadow Link.

I'd really consider spreading the story out across NPCs too so you can add more detail, stay canon yet take some liberties.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 14, 2018, 11:10:00 am
@Chicken Knife:

I already went through most of your points, except the last two.
Patch has been updated to reflect the latest changes too.

The issue with the text for the kidnapped kid being parsed wrongly was fixed, turns out it was a wrongly put linebreak.
Easy fix, just took me a while to realize lol

Anyway, I will touch down on the experience given by the Lizalfos once I know the text script is ready to go.

As for the King Bubble...
Now THAT is concerning.

I don't recall modifying much about the King Bubble other than HP, and I have my doubts that it was his HP I touched and not the individual bubbles.
Could you double check, please?
I am worried that I might have fucked up the King Bubble spawn somehow, but I want to be sure.
Did you encounter any at all? Or simply found less of them?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 14, 2018, 08:23:47 pm
@ShadowOne333

RE: King Bubbles, I'm certain that I didn't see any on my path through the great palace. My file saved over starting at the beginning so I can't make the run again atm but I am 100 percent certain they weren't there. Just in case the faq I was following for the route misinformed me of what enemies should be where, I just watched a youtube run where the guy took the same path and I saw multiple King Bubbles in the same rooms I passed with none.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 15, 2018, 05:58:37 pm
You are right.
I didn't want to bump into this, damnit.
I entered some cheat codes and also some RAM hacking to breeze my way up to the Great Palace in less than a minute.

So it turns out that the King Bubble, and maybe even the King Bot (can you check this one as well?) are both borked.
What happens is that, when the game should load one King Bubble, it appears as the split minor versions.

For example, in place of getting the King Bubble, you get two usual Bubbles, as if you just defeated the King Bubble and it already split into the two lesser enemies. I am thinking perhaps the King Bot might be a victim of this as well, although I am not sure, if anyone can also check if that enemy is also screwed, please let me know.

I tried editing back the King Bubble's HP, but it still keeps appearing as the split Bubbles :/
I will see what I can do to fix this. I have zero clue as to what edit I made to the enemies made the King Bubble bork.

Worst case scenario, I might have to undo all of the enemy changes and see if that does it, if not then we are in real trouble.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 15, 2018, 07:38:15 pm
King Bot is good. I definitely came across him where I was supposed to and he popped with one upward sword thrust.

And yes, I did see multiple small bubbles in the rooms where the king was supposed to appear. Strange issue. You'd think that restoring his HP to the former would stop setting off his split routine. Good luck and fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on August 16, 2018, 02:47:44 am
Chicken Knife. About the Japanese translation. I just checked the FDS version of Zelda II, and I can confirm that the spells are exactly the same in the Japanese version. Yes, in English. Go figure.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 16, 2018, 03:53:58 am
@Trax,

Coincidentally I downloaded the fds version today as well and came to the same amusing realization. Judging by the intro text alone, it's clear that the writer's skill with English really doesn't hold up among native speakers.

So the question would be: is it more important to be perfectly faithful to the Japanese or to present a product that comes across as a polished localization? I'd go with the latter every time.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 16, 2018, 02:07:48 pm
Holy crap that was scary.

I managed to fix it, here's the latest patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

That one should have the King Bubble issue already fixed.

So it turns out that indeed the HP editing was what borked the King.
For some reason it seems to only take HP values from C0 and up, else the individual bubbles pop up in his place.

I said before that the HP wasn't the cause because I was testing using save states inside the Great Palace.
I left the room I was in, and re-entered the room to test the Bubble spawn.

The problem here was that I did not take into account that once you enter the Palace, the whole RAM for enemy HP gets replaced, so loading a save state loaded the previous values it had, and not the updated ones.

So I had to do a LOT of testing.
Re-entering the Great Palace and go all the way through the Great Palace until I reached a point in which a King Bubble spawns.
I did this I believe like 50 or more times lol
Testing the values for sure is odd. I think the HPs for both the King Bubble and Bot might have something else going on.

In any case, this one should be okay for a more polished test.
Once I get the green light that the script is working fine and there are no more odd spawns/missing enemies, I will continue with the slight modifications of the Lizalfos that Chicken Knife mentioned, and the ones at the OP, and that should be it for the enemies so far.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:
I also noted that the Bubbles in the Great Palace seem to drain Magic from Link when touched.
Is there a way to disable this?
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere before if my memory serves me right.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on August 16, 2018, 09:02:22 pm
Quote
I also noted that the Bubbles in the Great Palace seem to drain Magic from Link when touched.
Is there a way to disable this?

Try changing the value at A08C from 01 to 00. This might stop magic from draining. I'm looking through code and haven't tried it. Hope it works!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 17, 2018, 10:28:50 am
Try changing the value at A08C from 01 to 00. This might stop magic from draining. I'm looking through code and haven't tried it. Hope it works!
A08C in PC address?
It seems like that particular bank is reserved for pointers and stuff for the Maze Island.
0xA08C has values [BA A2] in there.

However, upon further inspection of the code, I noticed that you were actually referring to PC address 0x01609C, which the game reads as $A08C in NES address.

And indeed, that one address seems to be the one which modifies the subtraction of the Magic meter.

Code: [Select]
[E9 01] = SBC $01
This means that every time you get a hit from a Bubble, the Magic meter is subtracted one point from it.
By changing the value to 00, we are effectively changing it so that, even if hit, the subtraction would be 0, which means no more Magic drained.

Thanks, njosro!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 18, 2018, 08:11:32 am
I just checked and it's not just bubbles from the great palace that drain magic. Bubbles from the first palace do the same.

But do you really want to eliminate this? I thought of it as a Zelda tradition carrying forward in Link to the Past.

* EDIT

I also came across what seems to be a new issue

https://imgur.com/a/QTz9Aaz

I DREW SOME WATER seems to be added to the end of this text in Ruto where it should not appear. Interestingly, the word DREW remains on the brick after the dialogue box is closed.

I haven't made it back to Nabooru yet but I'm wondering if the text for drawing the water there is correct or not.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on August 18, 2018, 04:41:31 pm
Quote
By changing the value to 00, we are effectively changing it so that, even if hit, the subtraction would be 0, which means no more Magic drained.
Thanks, njosro!

You're welcome! Yeah normally I'd give you a PC address but I did it really quickly on the side and didn't check.

By the way, I wasn't active here for a little while, but if I had known you were going to do extensive text editing, I would have changed my editor right away for you so it could show a preview of text that doesn't skip lines :)
The editor makes it super easy to view pointers and see what text they point to, edit text in a hex-editor sort of interface (with the game's characters showing up in place of hex values), and do search functions. Like, you can put the cursor inside a chunk of text and have the program reveal the pointer that leads to that text.

Am I shamelessly promoting my editor? Yes I am :P


Quote
I DREW SOME WATER seems to be added to the end of this text in Ruto where it should not appear.

I took the liberty of fixing it, since it's just missing an FF end marker.
fixed patch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei1vd7032n6a15p/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei1vd7032n6a15p/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vftrxhnw84tj11/Untitled.png?dl=1)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 20, 2018, 10:36:27 am
I forgot you were the one that made that editor, njosro :P
I even downloaded it at one point but didn't even make the connection xD

And yes, it was a simple missing end-line command.
Added it back, and repointed the text accordingly, here's the latest patch with that fix implemented:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

As always, let me know if something else comes up :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on August 20, 2018, 02:29:52 pm
Look at Njosro with the sales pitch for his editor. LOL! I think I told you a while back anyway that you should do a video tutorial on your editor.

My life has gone through some major changes, so I've only been able to peek in from time to time. It's good to see everyone still giving Zelda 2 some love.

@ShadowOne - I'll download your newest update and check it out. I'm sure your work with the text will help me out with my hack once I'm able to return to work on it.

@Njosro - Do you have anymore surprise Zelda 2 projects you're working on? Also, were you ever able to make some progress on creating that mid air jump?

@Trax - How far along are you with your latest hack and newest Sword II editor?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 24, 2018, 05:47:25 pm
Something that seems to be a minor glitch: on two occasions when battling enemies I saw the HUD information on top of the screen quickly flash with alternating screens of garbage characters. It only lasted a second or two on each occasion. I was unable to do a screen grab in both cases.

I decided to check this out myself, and managed to reproduce it quite consistently now.

However, guess what?
It's not a bug from the hack, it's a bug from Zelda II present in the original as well.

Here are some images I gathered:
https://imgur.com/a/dFY5KvS

What happens is that the HUD tends to move left or right in an exaggerated manner at times (this happens in a 1 frame only lapse), and doesn't stay static like it should.
I struggled a bit to take the pics in the exact moment the glitch happens, as the HUD glitch only happens in a 1 frame time-lapse, so I had to go around doing frame-by-frame movements to catch it.

Here's how to reproduce it (sort of):

By following that, you can get the glitch to appear every once in a while.
It's not as consistent as I'd like, but I manage to get it to present itself by doing that for a while, you'll see the HUD moving around eventually.

This is certainly odd, I never heard something about this glitch before, so it beats me as to what it could possibly to even attempt a fix for it in Redux.
If someone does know, please be sure to drop by any info that could fix it, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 24, 2018, 05:59:41 pm
Your thoroughness does not cease to amaze.  :thumbsup:

As I continue to play around with your latest patch, there's something I wanted to toss out there.

Suicide to save the game is annoying. Adding some kind of menu based save functionality would probably be a mighty challenge from a coding perspective but I believe it would fit your overall objective of removing annoyances. Have you given it any thought?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on August 25, 2018, 07:21:54 pm
if you lag the game out the hud does this to my recollection.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 25, 2018, 08:05:13 pm
Your thoroughness does not cease to amaze.  :thumbsup:

As I continue to play around with your latest patch, there's something I wanted to toss out there.

Suicide to save the game is annoying. Adding some kind of menu based save functionality would probably be a mighty challenge from a coding perspective but I believe it would fit your overall objective of removing annoyances. Have you given it any thought?

???
Up+A after pressing Start saves the game.
This has been a feature since way back in the first release.
Also, this save doesn't count towards the death counter in the Save Selection screen
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 25, 2018, 11:07:29 pm
At the beginning of this thread I actually knew this was a feature. Over the last few weeks that I've been playing it actively, I wasn't  remembering whether or not it was added, so I played around with button combinations in the menu trying to find it and came to the conclusion that it wasn't there and I was thinking of another hack. I'm just wondering  if it would serve the project to make the function easier to stumble upon naturally--say simply pressing select with no direction required after hitting start. Not all users are going to comb through the features--or may forget about it like I did.

*EDIT

I now realize that it functions exactly like dying where continue causes you return to the beginning temple or the start of a dungeon. Unless you could make continue cause it to cancel in this specific case, I definitely would not make it easier to access.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on August 26, 2018, 02:40:57 pm
I have been playing Adventure of Link since the console release and I never knew I could Up + Start to save it D=
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on August 26, 2018, 06:26:41 pm
I started working on the skeleton of my hack (possible name : Dark Fortress), the ROM is now expanded to 16 PRG banks and 16 CHR banks, and the banks have their assignments as to what they will contain. However, we just entered into a very important election campaign, so I'll be super busy until the beginning of October.

ShadowOne, I don't think I can let you say "chu-chu like enemy sprites", that's blasphemous especially from someone who should know the game by heart. >:( Are you referring to Demon Shadows on the Overworld map? My first thought was the enemy called Lowder (they kinda look like Chuchus), but they are usually found in caves.

Itemdrop is right about lag causing the HUD to jitter and show garbage for a frame duration. The original game is actually easy to choke, to my dismay. Having more than 2 projectile generating enemies at the same time on screen is enough to cause lag, and the aforementioned artifact effects.

Also, the Up+A command only works if done on the second controller (and the game must be paused), so Chicken Knife comment about discoverability may be justified. However, it would take some amount of reprogramming to create a dedicated menu. Also, I wouldn't want to accidentally call this command in the middle of the game, especially if you can't cancel it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on August 26, 2018, 11:35:02 pm
That's one of the features with ShadowOne's hack. You can use Up and A on controller 1 to save. No need to switch to controller 2. He also has Njosro's continue from the palace feature too.

@Trax - Dark Fortress would be a pretty cool name. I also seem you've managed to find a way expand the game safely to 16 PRG banks & 16 CHR banks. In time, I must know your secret. LOL

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 27, 2018, 01:49:33 am
Ah I see where the confusion is coming from now.

Okay, let me explain:

Zelda I and Zelda II have some sort of "debugging" feature implemented into them.
Said feature is that when you connect a 2nd controller into the console, if you press Start and the hit Up+A on the 2nd controller, then the game will prompt up the save screen.
Take into consideration that this is something already implemented into both z Zelda games on the NES.

What I did for Redux, is change this feature to make it play in favour of the player by:

This feature alongside njosro's Restart at Current Palace can make it so you can save and begin at the palace after said manual save was done, just remember that if you do so on the Overworld, you will be put back at Zelda's Palace (I think). Loading a save from a reset however still works as usual.

Changing how the saving works would require some heavy rewrite of the code as it is, and imo it's not worth such hassle. Although I do agree that not being able to cancel it and possibly hitting the combo by mistake is odd.

One thing I did try,was to make so that pressing Start and then hit Select would save the game, but for some reason said combo didn't work for me on my tests :/
I could go back to that and see if I was being clumsy or if it was the game.


@Trax sorry :p
I do know the names of the jelly creatures (Bots), but I assumed most people would understand better if I referred to them like that haha.
And thanks for explaining that!
So it's a problem due to enemy item drops and projectiles? That's a really weird side effect for sure.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: ShadowOne333
One thing I did try,was to make so that pressing Start and then hit Select would save the game, but for some reason said combo didn't work for me on my tests :/
I could go back to that and see if I was being clumsy or if it was the game.

Turns out it was me being clumsy.
I managed to put whatever button combo I want to save the game.

So now the question is, what button(s) should one press to save the game?
Take into consideration that you first need to have the game Paused (Press Start) and then do the button combo in order to save.

Right now as it is, I have to so that you pause and then hit Up+A to save.
I managed to change it so that you pause the game, and then press Select to bring the save screen up.

Is Pause -> Select okay for saving? Or do you guys have any other suggestions for ease of access?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 27, 2018, 06:33:23 pm
As I noted in my edit to my last comment, once I realized that there is no going back from that menu without restarting from the beginning of the game or dungeon entrance I essentially pulled back my recommendation for a simpler input. Start plus select is particularly dangerous because people can be in a rush to fire off a spell with select and hit it by mistake.

If the menu could be made cancel-able somehow...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on August 28, 2018, 10:53:34 pm
I feel like Start and then Select would be ideal. Isn't that how you saved in Link to the Past? I can't remember but it's more obvious the Up+A IMO

Also I mentioned this hack to both Revility and Falchion22. Been meaning to for awhile since I mentioned their hacks earlier in thread. Maybe they can help out with other features you're trying to configure and tweaks you're trying to make. Especially sprite work since both hacks seem to deal with it a bit. Perhaps you could end up having the FDS version of King's Tomb after all. It's not necessary to go to King's Tomb to progress so changing it would just be nicer for aesthetics and maybe adding to story. Revility has added and changed sprites in the past so maybe he could help. Maybe add a remorseful Prince into the FDS version of King's Tomb to add to the story instead of some random old lady being all "This.. is.. King's Tomb.." XD Heck, you could probably actually add an Impa sprite to Hyrule Castle to speak a few lines of dialog to free up some space to further explain the back story in the intro. And who knows, maybe either Revility or Falchion22 might know how to help you in re-adding that Dragon Quest reference. Revility also made a lot of positive changes to towns, house backgrounds and stuff like that too which might be worth incorporating or considering adding to this hack. His sprite edits were pretty damn great and had my favorite Link sprite of all.

I just re-played LTTP Redux with MSU again the other day too and it made me all warm and fuzzy thinking of another Redux Zelda game :3
I took the opportunity to re-record episodes 2 and 3 of the youtube series I did on it that Nintendo took down. They're cool with the re-uploads  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 29, 2018, 10:40:54 am
I'll keep it as Up+A for the time being.
I could change it to something else later one, it's a simply byte change in two addresses to make the change, and I already have everything in notes ready, as well as what values correspond to each button input, to just open in a Hex editor and change it at will.
I don't think I can manage to do a whole new menu and stuff just to make the save stuff cancel-able, so sadly I don't think I can include that.
Besides, being able to save all in itself already at any point is already a great improvement, more so given that it doesn't count as a death anymore. Sure going back to the entrance of wherever you are is bad, but at least you won't go all the way to the beginning anymore, nor have to die to save as well.



Also, @Shade Aurion, that's awesome!
The more people that can help, the better!
More so with the stuff I really need help for, which are the water animated tiles in the OW, the Dragon Quest reference and perhaps adding a PAUSE message in the OW when you pause the game. Having it simply go still feels really awkward.

Interesting bit of trivia, the text for the Dragon Quest reference is still in the game.
Well, not the text itself, but a dummy version of it, the pointer for it is still there, and there is dummy text where the Dragon Quest reference should have been.
I actually already repointed and added the text for the reference back, I just need a hotspot in the game so that said text gets activated in the exact place I need it.
If I can manage to get help to restore this reference and the animated water tiles, that'd be ideal. I could live without the Pause message.



Also, I think Revility's hack should be compatible with mine, as far as new sprites go.
I am not sure what other changes Revility did to his hack, but I think you can simply copy the GFX section of the ROM from Revility's and paste it into mine to have Revility's graphics into Redux.

I am slowly going over the enemies in the OP, I think Moblin and another one are already done, once I am done with those, I might need some help to figure out if I should rename the Spell spell, and to what should I rename it to, because apparently even the Japanese version called it Spell too.
Reveal was my first thought, but it also has a secondary effect in battles, so that won't work.

Once the remaining enemies and the Spell stuff is done, then I will really need to figure out the animation and Dragon Quest reference stuff, which is where help will really be needed, since that kind of stuff is completely out of my league at the moment, I haven't done anything like that before in any hack.

So yeah, we are almost at the finishing line I feel.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on August 30, 2018, 09:08:55 am
Also, I think Revility's hack should be compatible with mine, as far as new sprites go.
I am not sure what other changes Revility did to his hack, but I think you can simply copy the GFX section of the ROM from Revility's and paste it into mine to have Revility's graphics into Redux.

Rev Edition Ver.1.6 (Revility) + Zelda II Redux (You) + New Link Sprites (Falchion22) =

(http://i67.tinypic.com/18eico.jpg)  (http://i68.tinypic.com/2d0zblz.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/288w9w2.jpg)  (http://i66.tinypic.com/11jusjm.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2hf2o0p.jpg)  (http://i65.tinypic.com/2ba33m.jpg)

(I edited the Link's colors because I prefer the original.)


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on August 30, 2018, 10:38:29 am
Rev Edition Ver.1.6 (Revility) + Zelda II Redux (You) + New Link Sprites (Falchion22) =

(http://i67.tinypic.com/18eico.jpg)  (http://i68.tinypic.com/2d0zblz.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/288w9w2.jpg)  (http://i66.tinypic.com/11jusjm.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2hf2o0p.jpg)  (http://i65.tinypic.com/2ba33m.jpg)

(I edited the Link's colors because I prefer the original.)


While I have a few minutes, let me respond. If you check out my hack, I combined ShadowOne's hack and Revility's hack into the hack I created, so feel free to check it out. http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/ (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3931/)

I think Revility's work was really good. It would be good to see someone build upon what he has done. Falchion22 work was good as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 31, 2018, 01:26:25 pm
Rev Edition Ver.1.6 (Revility) + Zelda II Redux (You) + New Link Sprites (Falchion22) =

(http://i67.tinypic.com/18eico.jpg)  (http://i68.tinypic.com/2d0zblz.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/288w9w2.jpg)  (http://i66.tinypic.com/11jusjm.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2hf2o0p.jpg)  (http://i65.tinypic.com/2ba33m.jpg)

(I edited the Link's colors because I prefer the original.)

That's awesome :)
Will you be willing to provide a base patch, so that other people can include Revility's and Falchion's graphical patches over Redux once it's out?
I feel like this could be really well accepted by most people, and it could be implemented as an optional patch inside Redux. Giving proper credits of course to both Revility and Falchion, and you as the creator of the optional patch as well. :)



Aside from that, I found something quite interesting when rebalancing the remaining enemies.
Regarding the Orange and Red Lizalfos, it seems like the problem with the Orange Lizalfo giving out more EXP than the Red one was a bug in the original game.

For some reason, the Lizalfos seem to be one of the few instances where the Red variant is stored before the Orange one, and the programmers did put the HP correctly for the three variants (89, 4A and CB), but they didn't take into consideration that the Red Lizalfos was stored first before the Orange one, so that's why the orange one gave 150 and the Red one 100, because they were switched in the attribute table compared to the rest of the enemies.
I left them as 8A, 49 and CB in the game's code, so they should be good now ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on August 31, 2018, 04:23:08 pm
Great work with the Lizalfos. It was a bug after all. You've answered a question that has been gnawing at me for 30 years.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on August 31, 2018, 06:26:03 pm
Great work with the Lizalfos. It was a bug after all. You've answered a question that has been gnawing at me for 30 years.
Dont you mean something that's been "bugging" you for 30 years? ;)

And here's something I've been working on just for shits and giggles:
(https://i.imgur.com/jZw2FaR.png)

Hopefully someone can try to piece out together what I'm attempting here.
It's a real fucking mess xD

Right now I'm stuck at trying to move the red square which gets moved to the left when you get attacked (Life meter).
However, I found out that it can only move in that very same row of tiles, and not on the one above, which is where I need it to.

This is the related piece of code that seems to move those ones around:
Code: [Select]
.byt    $20,$68                        ; 0x169b $968B 20 68The [20] is for the Magic meter tile, which I moved to [08] so it works properly with the Magic meter that I moved.
However, moving the [68] to something else simply makes it move to the left or right, but not above.
I am trying to figure out how to move that one and the [L] tile above.
If I need space for new arrangements, I might move that table to 0x2A50, but I want to see what I can do with the limited space.

After that, I have to tackle the 0000 for the Experience, and then the Level numbers [1, 1, 1] to be written above, to the right of the Life meter.
I hope I can pull this off, no guarantees though as this is all really experimental.
I will also see if I can reverse-hack the water animation from Shadow of Night (which is what gave me the inspiration for this).

Baby steps, I just hope I don't fall down the stairs, break my legs and fuck it all up.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on August 31, 2018, 10:13:15 pm
The only tile you can't move is the blue "L" tile before the life meter. This tile is used to sync the Sprite Zero and is essential to the game's timing and the HUD's drawing process.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 01, 2018, 09:53:08 am
The only tile you can't move is the blue "L" tile before the life meter. This tile is used to sync the Sprite Zero and is essential to the game's timing and the HUD's drawing process.
No wonder I couldn't move that one then :p

Given that problem, would there ba way to maybe flip the Magic and Life meters then?
So that the L and that stuff remains there, but the life stuff gets printed out in the Magic meter one, and the Magic meter stuff into the Life one.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on September 01, 2018, 10:54:47 pm
Personally I much prefer Revility's Link sprites for both the sword shield edits and the overall feel/canonical resemblance (Dat bad timeline yellow hat stripe)
(https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/nes/images/3795screenshot2.png)

Plus that illusion of sword reach
(https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/nes/images/3795screenshot1.png)

Being able to dissect these into add-ons would give options and errrrybody love options. That said, Falchion22's title screen is top notch though. Revility edited overworld tiles too so he'd be a good bet for being able to help restore animated ocean tiles ;)

I wonder if changing the order to New Link Sprites (Falchion22) + Rev Edition Ver.1.6 (Revility) + Zelda II Redux (ShadowOne333) would keep the title screen from Falchion, all the Revility sprite edits and then all the changes from ShadowOne333
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on September 02, 2018, 03:06:40 am
ShadowOne. Don't change the L sprite position or graphics, at all. It's non-negotiable. If you do, cute kittens will die and you will be sent straight to the depths of Hell, no questions asked. Check this page (https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php?title=PPU_OAM&redirect=no#Sprite_zero_hits) for more details. It's all about timing.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 05, 2018, 11:10:44 am
ShadowOne. Don't change the L sprite position or graphics, at all. It's non-negotiable. If you do, cute kittens will die and you will be sent straight to the depths of Hell, no questions asked. Check this page (https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php?title=PPU_OAM&redirect=no#Sprite_zero_hits) for more details. It's all about timing.
Very well then, I'll take that into consideration, thanks for the heads up :)




By the way, guys, I forgot to tell you, the patch has been updated ever since the beginning of the week with all of the text and enemy changes already done to it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

So with that said, where does that leave us?
Well, as you can see, I updated the OP some days ago to reflect the latest changes.
Only main stuff remaining is the following:

HELP NEEDED FOR:

Aside from that:


Most stuff remaining is somewhat out of my grasp, as I have never attempted doing such things for any other game.
What I've been trying to do this week, is try to rework the HUD (as you saw with the images I posted, to no avail so far), and also try to restore the Dragon Quest reference.

I stumbled upon the Side-view Editor for Zelda 2 and thought I could perhaps use that one to push the text box hotspot in the correct place as if it were a signpost (like those found at the entrance of each town), but sadly I cannot find a way to put the DQ reference back using said editor.

So yeah, right now things might be slower due to the fact that I have no clue so far on how to achieve these remaining things.
Any kind of help is appreciated as always!

In the meanwhile, feel free to do a playthrough of the game and test it out thoroughly.
It should more or less now be complete without the slight retouches I want to apply to it.
(Side note: I might include Revility's graphical changes as an optional hack, but that will have to wait until all points are done and out of the way)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on September 08, 2018, 11:20:35 am
The tile mappings for the Pause Pane are at 1C1A. They include the spell names. And there's filler with period tiles, so it's super easy to modify. The "SPELL" spell's exact offset is 1C7E.

As for the Dragon Quest reference, I find this intriguing. Is it something specific to the Japanese version? I know there is one string of text in the US version that is never seen in the game. It's index 5F, and goes like this: "THE TOWN IS DEAD. LOOK EAST IN WOODS." One would expect to see that in old Kasuto, referring to Hidden Kasuto. It's possible that the invisible dialog object is present in the Side View data, but the room is unreachable in-game.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 08, 2018, 11:24:30 am
The tile mappings for the Pause Pane are at 1C1A. They include the spell names. And there's filler with period tiles, so it's super easy to modify. The "SPELL" spell's exact offset is 1C7E.

As for the Dragon Quest reference, I find this intriguing. Is it something specific to the Japanese version? I know there is one string of text in the US version that is never seen in the game. It's index 5F, and goes like this: "THE TOWN IS DEAD. LOOK EAST IN WOODS." One would expect to see that in old Kasuto, referring to Hidden Kasuto. It's possible that the invisible dialog object is present in the Side View data, but the room is unreachable in-game.
Thanks for the info on the Pause pane :)

As for the Dragon Quest reference, yes, it's Japan-specific.
If you go to the crosses in Saria, you can't trigger the textbox in the US release.

HOWEVER...
The text and its pointer ARE STILL in the game, but they simply dummied out.
I believe it's the text with a bunch of 22222 in it.
That's supposed to be the US couterpart of the Dragon Quest reference, if you follow the pointer/text arrangement of the Japanese release, those 2s is where the reference should be in the US ROM.
Only thing is that the text cannot be triggered, it seems like they removed the hotspot which makes that spot popup a text box.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darkanx on September 09, 2018, 05:23:46 am
Very nice work. I was trying something similar a long while back, but didn't get too far in. I always thought the tileset was way too simple and was trying my best to spruce things up. Keep it up! I am eager to see how it turns out! Would love to see more visual variety in the temples and such.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/mavhihfy1mlymzd/z2%202-180909-052124.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on September 09, 2018, 09:51:04 am
ShadowOne, you can indeed reinstate the lost dialog with the sideview editor.

The only limitation, however, is that you need to change one of the other "enemies" in that scene to take over the role of the lost dialog trigger. Enemies in towns are everything from bats to people to signs. I haven't figured out a way to make the editor append enemies to scenes without causing errors. I've tried other editors to see what they've done, but none have been able to do it without errors! So what we're going to do here is change the random townsfolk generator in this scene. (Who cares if random people don't spawn right away when you enter from the left).

So here's what I've done, and you can do the same:

1. Load up the sideview editor and go to scene 7 of town set A in west hyrule.
2. Click the "Edit Enemies" radiobutton at the bottom of the editor.
3. Click the enemy that generates random townsfolk, and move it to the crosses.
4. Change it to be an invisible dialog starter by clicking on the icon next to the sleeping blob option.
5. Save!

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkar7oq4ikl2r3c/town%20hidden%20dialog.png?dl=1)

Each "enemy" that you see listed in the editor, from the sleeping bat to the random townsfolk, are dialog triggers. The current town id dictates what each one will say.

#00 - sleeping bat
#01 - sleeping blob
#02 - first invisible dialog. The enemy that had this id was removed from the Saria town graveyard in the US release. It triggers dialog number 31 (1F in hex). If you want to get fancy, you can change which dialog it points to by right-clicking it, but I don't think you'll need to do that.

And I see you already reinstated the original text :) Here's how it is when I test it out.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/krqbi1srte3sggs/loto.png?dl=1)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on September 10, 2018, 03:42:19 am
The "22222" dialog is actually ".....", and it's what the sleeping Ache in Nabooru says three times before telling you about a Heart Container at the fourth attempt.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 10, 2018, 11:16:27 am
ShadowOne, you can indeed reinstate the lost dialog with the sideview editor.

The only limitation, however, is that you need to change one of the other "enemies" in that scene to take over the role of the lost dialog trigger. Enemies in towns are everything from bats to people to signs. I haven't figured out a way to make the editor append enemies to scenes without causing errors. I've tried other editors to see what they've done, but none have been able to do it without errors! So what we're going to do here is change the random townsfolk generator in this scene. (Who cares if random people don't spawn right away when you enter from the left).

So here's what I've done, and you can do the same:

1. Load up the sideview editor and go to scene 7 of town set A in west hyrule.
2. Click the "Edit Enemies" radiobutton at the bottom of the editor.
3. Click the enemy that generates random townsfolk, and move it to the crosses.
4. Change it to be an invisible dialog starter by clicking on the icon next to the sleeping blob option.
5. Save!

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkar7oq4ikl2r3c/town%20hidden%20dialog.png?dl=1)

Each "enemy" that you see listed in the editor, from the sleeping bat to the random townsfolk, are dialog triggers. The current town id dictates what each one will say.

#00 - sleeping bat
#01 - sleeping blob
#02 - first invisible dialog. The enemy that had this id was removed from the Saria town graveyard in the US release. It triggers dialog number 31 (1F in hex). If you want to get fancy, you can change which dialog it points to by right-clicking it, but I don't think you'll need to do that.

And I see you already reinstated the original text :) Here's how it is when I test it out.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/krqbi1srte3sggs/loto.png?dl=1)

AH!
So I was on the right track!
I simply couldn't make much sense of the editor as to why it didn't let me input a new message window, now I see that it was because I had to rework an existing one into the new one. Thanks for this!
I will implement it asap :)

Btw, how does it work that I don't need to change the First/Second Dialog that the Invisible Dialog starter does?
I just checked it and it does load the proper text, but without changing anything related to that?
Just wondering how it works :P

The "22222" dialog is actually ".....", and it's what the sleeping Ache in Nabooru says three times before telling you about a Heart Container at the fourth attempt.
Oh you're correct.
I got confused. The "22222" dialogue I did translate it as "....." in Redux.
What I was actually referring to is an unknown/empty pointer to [A7 53] located at 0xF00C ($AFFC).
This is the actual pointer to the Loto reference, which seems to go unused (I think?).
Is dialogue #31 (or 1F in hex as @njosro pointed out), I found that out when repointing and re-writing the whole script some weeks back :)



Here's the updated IPS with the now restored Dragon Quest/Loto reference thanks to njosro!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

As always, let me know if you guys find anything out of place or something :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on September 10, 2018, 12:23:56 pm
Restored Dragon Quest reference..

You guys sure know how to get me to play through this again. :beer:

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mariosmentor on September 12, 2018, 11:27:55 am
Nice! Although you might want to know that DQ games don't use the name Loto anymore (at least in America, anyway). Nowadays, Square Enix localizes it as Erdrick.

https://youtu.be/BmEhsRlmcD4?list=PLJvt28QwCzbs_G8BTV-aJtHZmXeYZxO2o&t=30

But, that's just nitpicking, at best.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 12, 2018, 05:37:05 pm
Yeah I did think about that when making the line.
I am unsure yet if I should continue with Loto or Erdrick.
I'll see what I end up doing, given how this will be played in US releases perhaps I'll go for Erdrick instead, but we'll see.

I haven't touched anything related to this hack lately, but next on the list I think should be either trying to restore the water animated tiles or attempting to make a "PAUSE" message on pause on the Overworld.
I read something about changing the mapper to the ROM itself to make use of VRAM for the animated tiles, but I am not sure how feasible or if this is even true at all.

As far as I know, the water tiles should be doable with the current mapper of Zelda 2, since I believe Shadow of Night does this as well without changing mappers (unless I am wrong).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Prince Valmont on September 12, 2018, 05:40:04 pm
Yeah I did think about that when making the line.
I am unsure yet if I should continue with Loto or Erdrick.
I'll see what I end up doing, given how this will be played in US releases perhaps I'll go for Erdrick instead, but we'll see.

Since even newer DQ games refer to the hero as Erdrick, I would vote for that too.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: lexluthermiester on September 12, 2018, 05:56:16 pm
Since even newer DQ games refer to the hero as Erdrick, I would vote for that too.
Same here.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on September 12, 2018, 06:57:18 pm
I agree with Erdrick.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on September 12, 2018, 11:54:18 pm
Never liked Erdrick, or the forced sounding medieval language we got in general. Doesn't jive with the spirit of DQ for me.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: lexluthermiester on September 13, 2018, 07:46:25 pm
Never liked Erdrick, or the forced sounding medieval language we got in general. Doesn't jive with the spirit of DQ for me.
I loved it! A serious part of what made the atmosphere of the game so charming.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on September 13, 2018, 07:59:00 pm
Yeah, I've heard that feedback from a ton of people and I'm sure that's why they reverted back with mobile releases after they went my way with the GB versions. Ok, no more arguments from me about Dragon Quest on a Zelda thread. I have a Dragon Quest project thread for that  :laugh:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on September 19, 2018, 03:58:52 pm
AH!
So I was on the right track!
I simply couldn't make much sense of the editor as to why it didn't let me input a new message window, now I see that it was because I had to rework an existing one into the new one. Thanks for this!
I will implement it asap :)

You're welcome! Yeah, the dialog system is a bit strange if you've never been exposed to it before. The sideview editor only lets you change the dialog starter's pointer. You need the dialog editor (or a hex editor, as you did it) to change the actual text.

Btw, how does it work that I don't need to change the First/Second Dialog that the Invisible Dialog starter does?
I just checked it and it does load the proper text, but without changing anything related to that?
Just wondering how it works :P

Good question.
Short answer: The dialog starter was already set up to point to the special text, but was removed from Saria town in the US release.

Long answer: If you want to see the correct values for dialog starters in the editor, you need to change the "test ofs" (test offset) setting located at the top-right of the editor. For Saria town this would be a value of 2. It's dumb that you need to do this, I know, but I never got around to doing anything about it. I think I will now! When you right-click a dialog starter and choose to change its dialog, I'm going to make it ask for a town number.

Some explaining:
If the game is in Town Set A, then the dialog starters pull from the Town Set A primary dialog index table (E248 in PC ROM). Likewise for Town Set B. (The dialog starters pull from secondary index table if certain conditions are met.) In the original game, they made all the towns in West Hyrule use Town Set A, and all the towns in East Hyrule use Town Set B.
The town index tells the dialog starters which column of the dialog index table to use.

For example, let's find out which dialog the wise man uses in the town of Ruto.
Ruto is designated as being part of town set A, so we look at the Town Set A primary dialog index table (E248 in PC ROM). Each row in this table has 4 entries; one for each town in the town set.
"Wise Man" is the 5th dialog starter after the sleeping bat, so we jump ahead 5 rows. (E248 + (4*5) = E25C).
Ruto is town 1 in town set A (Rauru is town 0), so we move ahead 1 column. (E25C + 1 = E25D).
At E25D, we find this value: 18
18 in decimal is 24. If we look up the dialog pointer at index 24, we find that it points to this text: "WITH THIS YOU CAN JUMP VERY HIGH."

The sideview editor does all these calculations automatically when you are prompted to change the dialog index.

For reference:
TOWN        SET   OFFSET
Rauru       A     0
Ruto        A     1
Saria       A     2
Mido        A     3
Nabooru     B     0
Darunia     B     1
New Kasuto  B     2
Old Kasuto  B     3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on September 19, 2018, 05:17:28 pm
So the software itself calculates the intended dialogue starter by itself according to the data you mention.
Quite interesting :)
Congrats on making all for the Side View Editor, njosro, it's quite an accomplishment!
You helped to restore one of the things which were completely out my reach :P
Thanks!


Now only the Water Tiles Animation and perhaps the PAUSE message on the overworld are missing to make a full release of the hack :)
If someone has any insights of info that might help with those two, please let me know!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on October 20, 2018, 03:55:37 pm
It might be worth contacting other Zelda 2 hackers directly for that one.
It might also be worth working with Trax on his Zelda 2 extension project ^_^

I'm sure you already considered the former so this is more to bump this project back to the first page but still, if animating water tiles is all that is left, keeping this front page might see this project to completion. It might also be worth making compatibility with retroachievements https://retroachievements.org/ <3

Also, really enjoying your localization/title screen hack for Castlevania 3 atm. Running it with Dragonsbrethren's bugfixes and NaOH's improved controls and it's very enjoyable and so far all hacks are fully compatible. I wonder how many of your hacks i'll end up using XD
(here's the playlist if you wanna see me rage at how much harder 3 is then 1 or 2 lmao - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACiJulsjO0&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9uNjvijOXkdmM0_LXRD4KK3 )
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: dACE on October 20, 2018, 05:47:39 pm
...keeping this front page might see this project to completion.

Soooooo... you are helping.... by bumping this thread.... so others (with skills) can see it.... and help?


EDIT: Just realized - I'm helping too because i bumped the thread :-)

/dACE
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on October 21, 2018, 03:09:02 pm
Umm, yeah? It's been a month since the last post, this hack is nearing completion and ShadowOne333 is seeking help specifically with animating tiles.. >_>
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 21, 2018, 03:12:43 pm
What the heck just happened here? Lol

But yeah, basically what's left to be done is just the animates water tiles as priority.
The PAUSE message on Overworld could be a nice bonus, but optional.

Once the water tiles animation is done, it should be ready for a proper release
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on October 21, 2018, 03:25:45 pm
lol I don't even know dude. Again it might be worth tracking down specific Zelda 2 hackers and seeing if they can help. Trax, Revility, etc might be able to help you out. I'm sure its something really simple too.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 24, 2018, 10:35:04 am
I already sent some PMs, I'm holding off to see if someone can help with those :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on October 24, 2018, 08:42:58 pm
You can stop holding your breath, guys, I took a look at Shadow of Night, and I saw how it is done. Clever hack, but not the most efficient. The game simply toggles between various CHR banks with the animated tiles that change every bank. The original Zelda II ROM has 14 CHR banks. The last one is just empty, so you can say it's free to use. Expanded to 16 banks, the 3 extra banks are used to store the different tiles to be animated on the Overworld. The code that does the swap is very simple.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 24, 2018, 09:13:35 pm
You can stop holding your breath, guys, I took a look at Shadow of Night, and I saw how it is done. Clever hack, but not the most efficient. The game simply toggles between various CHR banks with the animated tiles that change every bank. The original Zelda II ROM has 14 CHR banks. The last one is just empty, so you can say it's free to use. Expanded to 16 banks, the 3 extra banks are used to store the different tiles to be animated on the Overworld. The code that does the swap is very simple.
Interesting.
So it is changing banks after all.
With that said, then using the last unused bank for the animated tiles, and adding the code, should make the desired effect?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on October 25, 2018, 01:35:31 am
Yes, one CHR bank per frame, actually. The code adjusts the speed of frames using RAM $12, which is a permanent ascending counter.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 25, 2018, 01:38:17 pm
Yes, one CHR bank per frame, actually. The code adjusts the speed of frames using RAM $12, which is a permanent ascending counter.
So the code uses RAM address or value $12?
Also, you mentioned something about expanded banks from 14 (original) to 16.
Does Shadow of Night use the original 14 CHR banks or is it expanded to 16?
And if it's the former, does it use each CHR bank for the animation, or only two (being the 14th the one for the animation)?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on October 25, 2018, 05:54:29 pm
way to go, trax!  :thumbsup: I always wondered how it was done.

ShadowOne, my interpretation is that Shadow of Night expands it to 16 CHR banks, because if it's 1 bank per frame, and Shadow of Night has 4 animation frames if I remember correctly, that's 4 extra banks.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on October 27, 2018, 12:15:18 pm
That's how it's done. It's not elegant, but it works. The original CHR bank is 8, part 1000-1FFF. This bank contains the first frame. Bank D already exists, but is empty. In the hack, it contains a copy of bank 8, with the tiles to animate changed, for second frames. Banks E and F are added through expansion, and are also copies of bank 8, with third and fourth frames changed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: azul120 on October 29, 2018, 02:05:02 am
Interesting stuff here.

Can't help but wonder what could be done with a mapper conversion. First things first of course.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 29, 2018, 12:01:04 pm
That's how it's done. It's not elegant, but it works. The original CHR bank is 8, part 1000-1FFF. This bank contains the first frame. Bank D already exists, but is empty. In the hack, it contains a copy of bank 8, with the tiles to animate changed, for second frames. Banks E and F are added through expansion, and are also copies of bank 8, with third and fourth frames changed.
Interesting.
Is there a way to make the expansion to 16 CHR banks? (Is it the MMC1 to MMC3 hack or is it something to do with the free space available near the end of the ROM?)
Afaik, for Zelda 2 Redux I might only require 3 frames of animation to make it work and behave as it does on Link no Bouken (Japanese release), I don't know if having the 4 frames could make things easier/harder, but that'll come in due time.
What address in Shadow of Night does the code for this animation start at to take a peek at it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on October 29, 2018, 02:54:42 pm
So.. I know that the animated tiles are all thats left and all, but looking over the differences betweend the fds version and the nes version ( https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences ) a few other things might be easy additions and cool:
- reverting the River Devil
- reverting the church
-reverting King's Tomb (although maybe removing the enemies and keeping the woman and have her drop some lore. This would be a good place to add in a prince sprite full of remorse if you were ever going to)
- reverting kasuto's secret building
- maybe revert one of the river guards to give more variety?

I dunno, just some ideas. I'm super excited either way to replay Zelda 2 eitherway ^_^
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 29, 2018, 04:35:28 pm
So.. I know that the animated tiles are all thats left and all, but looking over the differences betweend the fds version and the nes version ( https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences ) a few other things might be easy additions and cool:
- reverting the River Devil
- reverting the church
-reverting King's Tomb (although maybe removing the enemies and keeping the woman and have her drop some lore. This would be a good place to add in a prince sprite full of remorse if you were ever going to)
- reverting kasuto's secret building
- maybe revert one of the river guards to give more variety?

I dunno, just some ideas. I'm super excited either way to replay Zelda 2 eitherway ^_^
I did take all these Regional differences into consideration for Redux.
Most of them though, feel like really minor changes and/or look better to me in the NES version.
For example, the Kasuto building does look better to me compared to the full green bricks, same for the guards (you change one, most likely all the others will change too). The Church new cross does look way better in the NES version for sure, FDS one looks too simple.

The only ones I did consider seriously are the River Devil, the spawn sprites and the King's Tomb area.
The River Devil I am looking for official artwork to see which one of the two sprites between versions is the closest to the original artwork. The Spawn sprites I might add some color to the NES ones (like making the Bot spawn sprite blue and the monster one perhaps brown or some red/orange color).
The Tomb's area I am really not sure what I will do for it. I do like the original FDS setting, but if I restore that one I would have to get rid of the enemies and put back the NPC there instead. I'll see what happens once the water animation is done.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on October 29, 2018, 11:42:39 pm
Going from MMC1 to MMC3 is not a piece of cake. It involves a different way of loading graphics. You can probably use the same CHR swap as the original, i.e. swap 0x2000 bytes at PPU 0x0000 or 0x1000 in one shot. But the advantage of MMC3 is that you can individually swap smaller chunks of the PPU at any given time. I think the smallest is 0x400 bytes, which is a quarter of 0x0000 or 0x01000, or 64 tiles. That would make tile animation a lot easier and less "hacky".

As far as I know, MMC1 allows a maximum of 16 banks, so the expansion of banks is possible with MMC1. Just change the ROM's header, and then make sure the correct banks are swapped as needed. As for Zelda II specifically, you have to take bank 7 and move it to 15. I think the rest can be left where it is.

In Shadow of Night, the code for the Overworld bank swapping is at 0x2A40.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 30, 2018, 04:55:18 pm
Going from MMC1 to MMC3 is not a piece of cake. It involves a different way of loading graphics. You can probably use the same CHR swap as the original, i.e. swap 0x2000 bytes at PPU 0x0000 or 0x1000 in one shot. But the advantage of MMC3 is that you can individually swap smaller chunks of the PPU at any given time. I think the smallest is 0x400 bytes, which is a quarter of 0x0000 or 0x01000, or 64 tiles. That would make tile animation a lot easier and less "hacky".

As far as I know, MMC1 allows a maximum of 16 banks, so the expansion of banks is possible with MMC1. Just change the ROM's header, and then make sure the correct banks are swapped as needed. As for Zelda II specifically, you have to take bank 7 and move it to 15. I think the rest can be left where it is.

In Shadow of Night, the code for the Overworld bank swapping is at 0x2A40.
Okay, so I will stick to MMC1 (CHR) to avoid any unwanted trouble with graphics.
Now unto more detailed questions:


Code: [Select]
A5 12      LDA $12
29 30      AND #$30
4A         LSR A
4A         LSR A
4A         LSR A
4A         LSR A
A8         TAY
B9 70 AA   LDA $AA70,Y
8D 00 A0   STA $A000
B9 80 AA   LDA $AA80,Y
8D 00 A0   STA $A000
B9 90 AA   LDA $AA90,Y
8D 00 A0   STA $A000
B9 A0 AA   LDA $AAA0,Y
8D 00 A0   STA $A000
B9 B0 AA   LDA $AAB0,Y
8D 00 A0   STA $A000

And then, from 0x2A80 up to 0x2AB4 I am getting something that looks like a table of sorts:
Code: [Select]
10 10 10 10
08 01 00 01
04 00 01 01
02 01 01 01
01 01 01 01

I'm still unsure what the table does, wanted to make sure first that I'm on the right track.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on October 30, 2018, 05:54:41 pm
The original game has values 08 0E, which translates to 8 PRG banks and 14 CHR banks. Your header already has 16 CHR banks (10 in hex), so you don't have to do anything.

As for the code, I always express my pointers as real addresses, not file addresses, so you have to add 0x10 to compensate for the file header. The code you pasted here is correct. And yes, the table is related, and should be kept that way. The values are a little weird, but basically, it will load a different bank every 0x10 frames, in that order: 08, 0D, 0E, 0F. For speed, it's 16 / 60 = 0.27 seconds per frame, so about 4 frames per second. If you want to have a different animation speed, you need to modify the code slightly.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on October 30, 2018, 09:11:33 pm
Will this modify the bank loading for every graphic in the game, then?

If so, that would allow for all sorts of BG animation. Obviously you wouldn't want to go overkill on it, but it can be done tastefully - grass to softly blow in the wind, water to actually ripple, etc. I've seen it before in SMB hacks.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on October 31, 2018, 01:11:32 pm
The original game has values 08 0E, which translates to 8 PRG banks and 14 CHR banks. Your header already has 16 CHR banks (10 in hex), so you don't have to do anything.

As for the code, I always express my pointers as real addresses, not file addresses, so you have to add 0x10 to compensate for the file header. The code you pasted here is correct. And yes, the table is related, and should be kept that way. The values are a little weird, but basically, it will load a different bank every 0x10 frames, in that order: 08, 0D, 0E, 0F. For speed, it's 16 / 60 = 0.27 seconds per frame, so about 4 frames per second. If you want to have a different animation speed, you need to modify the code slightly.
I started copying the banks and all.
I copied range/bank 0x030010 up to 0x03200F (using YY-CHR) three times starting at offset 0x03A010 and ending at 0x04000F.
I modified the tile related to the water (which is $6E) in each new frame/bank, and I also added some extra/dummy tiles as visual reference to know if the bank switching is working through FCEUX's PPU Viewer.

Then, went ahead and introduced the code from Shadow of Night found at 0x2A50 into Zelda 2.
However, the banks aren't switching yet, I am getting the same static bank/frame as in original Zelda 2.
Am I still missing something else?

Will this modify the bank loading for every graphic in the game, then?

If so, that would allow for all sorts of BG animation. Obviously you wouldn't want to go overkill on it, but it can be done tastefully - grass to softly blow in the wind, water to actually ripple, etc. I've seen it before in SMB hacks.
It's possible without a doubt.
Shadow of Night doesn't only make this bank switching thing to just animate the water, it also does this for animations related to other overworld tiles, like the town tile which has a little smoke animation, and also for grass movement and another one which seems similar to the water tile but I haven't seen in the overworld yet, so yeah it should be possible to add animation to the whole overworld once this is working.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 01, 2018, 02:30:16 am
It's because the new code is never executed. It doesn't simply execute after the preceding code, which is unrelated. You have to hook it up somewhere in the original code. Shadow of Night does it exactly at $1C182, which is straight into the NMI routine. It replaces the operation to increase $12 (permanent timer that is increased by 1 every frame), replaces it with a JSR (Jump to SubRoutine) that points to another routine stored in the VERY limited unused space of Bank 7 (which is a shame, because expanding in Bank 7 is quite important if you want to create new code), at $1FF4C. This routine reads like this:

Code: [Select]
1FF4C: AD 6807 LDA $0768
1FF4F: D0 03 BNE $1FF54
1FF51: 20 40AA JSR $AA40
1FF54: E6 12 INC $12
1FF56: 60 RTS

It reads $0768 (I don't even know exactly what this variable does), if it's 0, executes the code at $AA40 (translates to 2A40 in Bank 0, the code that does the actual bank switching), then increases $12 as usual and returns. Whew. Don't you think ASM is funny?

So, copy the code at $1FF4C like above (it's supposed to replace a bunch of FF values), and then replace the operation at $1C182 [EE 12 00] with [20 4C FF]. You should be good to go.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 01, 2018, 11:50:52 am
Thanks, Trax!
That did the trick :D
I managed to get overworld animation working!

I also went a little bit overboard with it already hahah
Just take a look:

(https://i.imgflip.com/2lhcoj.gif)

I already animated the grass, River Devil and the water :)
I am thinking if I should animate the towns too, to something similar to Shadow of Night, I will see.
Any suggestions about the sand?
Should I animate that too? Or leave it as it is?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:
Oops, I just noticed a side effect by watching the GIF, take a look at the lower-left corner.
Turns out the tile used for the water is also the same one used for the rock-like terrain near the labyrinth at the Great Palace.

No biggie though, what I can do is make use of one of the empty tiles in that bank, and simply make it repeat the same tile in each frame of animation, all I need to do is just find where in the ROM is the routine that tells the game what tile to load for that particular terrain, and change it from $6E to whatever I choose it to be.
I already went ahead and added the tile to the corresponding banks, that tile should be $8E, so I just need to find where in the ROM is that routine to change the tile loading from $6E to $8E.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on November 01, 2018, 01:08:14 pm

Oops, I just noticed a side effect by watching the GIF, take a look at the lower-left corner.
Turns out the tile used for the water is also the same one used for the rock-like terrain near the labyrinth at the Great Palace.
 

No no no. This is not a side effect but a lava river and it's also animated in the FDS version as seen in this video (start from 1:28:58):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-DVpDh_tko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-DVpDh_tko)

Other areas also contain this lava effect so I suggest you use the video to identify them, okay?

(See the video at 1:48:02 for example.)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 01, 2018, 01:15:37 pm
No no no. This is not a side effect but a lava river and it's also animated in the FDS version as seen in this video (start from 1:28:58):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-DVpDh_tko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-DVpDh_tko)

Other areas also contain this lava effect so I suggest you use the video to identify them, okay?

Oh you're right.
I thought that was a path of some sort, not actual "lava". :P
Thanks for pointing it out!

As far as I can tell, only the water and the lava-like thing are animated on the Overworld for the Japanese release.
If someone finds something else that's animated in the overworld and I haven't noticed yet, please let me know!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on November 01, 2018, 04:55:29 pm
This looks great! Good job.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 01, 2018, 05:35:17 pm
Mmmmm weird.
I seem to have a complete mess of files in my PC.

I cannot seem to find the latest version of Zelda 2 Redux I posted which has the Loto reference restored.
Anyone here has it? Could you share it please?
I have a lot of IPS and I am not sure which one is the correct one anymore lol
And the one I linked seems to not have the Dragon Quest reference neither. :/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on November 01, 2018, 06:44:38 pm
ShadowOne, Is this the one you're talking about?

Quote
Here's the updated IPS with the now restored Dragon Quest/Loto reference thanks to njosro!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

As always, let me know if you guys find anything out of place or something :P

If it's not the patch you're looking for, you can send me the current patch you've got and I'll put in the Loto dialog starter for you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: FCandChill on November 01, 2018, 06:52:19 pm
I just wanted to say that I really like what you're doing with the hack. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on November 02, 2018, 08:16:50 pm
I love how this hack keeps evolving in strange and unusual ways. Nice work on the animated tiles, they look great <3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 02, 2018, 10:57:36 pm
Thank you all for the positive comments :)
And thanks to all of those that have helped along the way!

ShadowOne, Is this the one you're talking about?

If it's not the patch you're looking for, you can send me the current patch you've got and I'll put in the Loto dialog starter for you.

I'm not in town at the moment, so I can't try out the link you posted @njosro, but from what I can remembee, I think i tried that one past thursday and I couldnt get the Loto reference to pop up.

Can anyone try that one and let me know if you can, please?

If someone does have the latest Redux patch with the Dragon quest reference at hand, please post it here just in case.

I won't be able to test anything until Monday, but any patch/help posted would be amazing.
Thanks again, everyone!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Zanemato on November 05, 2018, 10:03:55 am
This is one of the most beautiful hack I've seen so far on a Zelda game . I can't wait to see the result of the final patch . Thank you so much to everyone working hard on this project !  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 05, 2018, 11:59:33 am
Mmmm okay I had to re-implement the Dragon Quest reference for the version I had, since I couldn't find the patch that already had it. Btw, to restore the reference, it takes nothing more but a 2 byte change in the ROM, just so you guys know :P.
To manually restore the Dragon Quest reference, all you have to do is go to offset 0x00C8E9 and put [7B 8C] in there. (At least for Redux, I'm unsure if this works for vanilla Zelda 2 as well).


Here's the latest beta:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0



What's included in this beta?
I am thinking of maybe redoing the Sword to be more similar to the one in the boxart (like Rev's hack does).
And maybe changing up the HUD to something akin to Shadow of Night, but let's see if I end up doing that or not.

Please, let me know if you find anything odd or out of place with this beta, as I'm unsure if the Dragon Quest reference was the only thing missing from the build I had.

---------------------------------------------------------

Edit:
Also, how's this for a little spicy change to the overworld enemies?
https://imgur.com/a/xUCMcNp

(https://i.imgur.com/kN0DOtE.png)

I tried to grab the best of both the japanese and english releases, and came up with this.
This way they don't look as bland blobs like in the Japanese release nor as bland in color as the English one, so now each one has their palette colour and unique sprite, merging the best of both releases imo.
Let me know what you guys think, I am really opening up to the possibility of touching up slight parts of the graphics.

Btw, I think I can also add more animation to the enemy/fairy sprites on the overworld as well.
But I think that'd be overkill lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on November 05, 2018, 05:23:48 pm
Wow that looks great. I'll give it a go this afternoon. And grabbed it just in case you lose the latest beta again :p
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on November 05, 2018, 09:12:09 pm
Unfortunately it is not compatible with Rev Edition, as the author has modified several graphics in the overworld, they appear simultaneously with the originals ruining everything. (I just wanted the moving waters and lava to be the ultimate version.) :'(
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 06, 2018, 10:26:39 am
Unfortunately it is not compatible with Rev Edition, as the author has modified several graphics in the overworld, they appear simultaneously with the originals ruining everything. (I just wanted the moving waters and lava to be the ultimate version.) :'(
That can be somewhat easily fixed.
What hack are you applying first, Redux or Rev?
I need to know in what order you are applying them, so that I can give you the proper instructions on how to fix them.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on November 06, 2018, 11:30:26 am
1) Rev Edition v1.6
2) Redux
3) New Link Sprites
3) Restart from Palace at Game Over
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 06, 2018, 11:47:32 am
1) Rev Edition v1.6
2) Redux
3) New Link Sprites
3) Restart from Palace at Game Over

I think this patch should pretty much give the desired result:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b7d68m92bry3dz/Redux%2BRev%2BNewLink.ips?dl=0

Should be what I have of Redux so far, alongside Rev Edition v1.6 and the New Link sprites.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on November 06, 2018, 12:01:20 pm
The New Link Sprites patch is only for the new title screen (which I think is the most beautiful of all), because the Link design that will prevail is that from the Rev Edition. In fact most of them (overworld, monsters, items, npcs, menus, cities, palaces, etc) will come from the Rev Edition.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on November 07, 2018, 09:09:57 am
1) Rev Edition v1.6
2) Redux
3) New Link Sprites
3) Restart from Palace at Game Over

Would it be possible to get Rev Edition updated character sprites instead but keep the New Sprites title screen by applying them in a different order do you think?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on November 07, 2018, 12:01:23 pm
Would it be possible to get Rev Edition updated character sprites instead but keep the New Sprites title screen by applying them in a different order do you think?

The New Link Sprites patch is only for the new title screen (which I think is the most beautiful of all), because the Link design that will prevail is that from the Rev Edition. In fact most of them (overworld, monsters, items, npcs, menus, cities, palaces, etc) will come from the Rev Edition.

But that's exactly what this patches order does, if you want the New Sprites title screen, this should always be applied last, otherwise it will always be that coming from the Rev Edition.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on November 07, 2018, 07:25:23 pm
Awesome! Now all that is left is to wait to see if ShadowOne333 adds anything else and releases a final patch and BAM! ultimate version of Zelda 2 before Trax takes it next level XD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 10, 2018, 12:12:46 am
@Trax - Is there a way to change the order in which you get magic? For example, is there a way to put reflect magic in Western Hyrule in the 1st town Rauru and get the Shield magic in Eastern Hyrule? I've been trying to find a way to change the order you receive magic, but I have been unsuccessful.

@ShadowOne - Great work with the hack. Now if someone can figure out how to change Jump magic to do a double jump instead of just jumping higher, that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 10, 2018, 01:48:09 am
Isshh... Spell learning seems to be linked to Town Code, RAM $056B. Switching Town Codes within the same region is easy, but between regions, I'm not sure. It could break other game mechanics.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 10, 2018, 10:51:25 am
Isshh... Spell learning seems to be linked to Town Code, RAM $056B. Switching Town Codes within the same region is easy, but between regions, I'm not sure. It could break other game mechanics.

Is there a way to change the Magic level requirements to learn a spell? For example, Fire and Reflect require your magic level to be at 4 in order to learn the spells. Can it be changes to 1 or 2 to learn them much quicker?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 10, 2018, 10:42:21 pm
Well, the code says that you need as many Heart Containers as the rank of the spell, which corresponds to the Town Code, plus one. Town Code for Rauru is 00, so you need 1 Magic Container to get the Shield spell. So on, up to Thunder, which requires 8 Magic Containers. Town Code for Kasuto is 07.

EDIT: Magic Containers, not Heart Containers.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on November 11, 2018, 11:29:35 am
do you mean magic container trax ?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 11, 2018, 12:47:34 pm
Is there anyway of changing that formula so I can do something like make you get the Reflect spell 1st instead of Shield Magic?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 11, 2018, 04:14:34 pm
Yes, Itemdrop, I meant Magic Containers.  :laugh:  I corrected the post.

Ultimaweapon. You can change the spells names and their effect accordingly. This way, you won't touch the code and avoid potentially breaking the game. You also have to swap the dialogs for the Wise Man. You may want to make sure the spell magic requirements are correct, in table at $0D7B. Spell effects, one bit per spell, are at $0DBB. To change the spells names, it's in the Pause Pane tile mappings, at $1C1A.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 12, 2018, 03:27:07 pm
I haven't received any bug/glitch feedback from the newest beta, so I will assume it is going smooth for now. :P
So with that, animations on the overworld should be working, and crossed off the list thanks to Trax and the info he provided!

Now, there are still a couple more things I want to attempt to do, but in the meanwhile please be sure to try the latest beta I uploaded and give it a rough test, beginning to end, to ensure it is working properly.

Last things I want to do (beside the Pause message on the overworld) are nothing more but fancy things that I do hope I can implement, still I want to see if I can achieve them before even saying what they are, so enjoy the beta meanwhile :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: azul120 on November 13, 2018, 01:29:29 am
Going from MMC1 to MMC3 is not a piece of cake. It involves a different way of loading graphics. You can probably use the same CHR swap as the original, i.e. swap 0x2000 bytes at PPU 0x0000 or 0x1000 in one shot. But the advantage of MMC3 is that you can individually swap smaller chunks of the PPU at any given time. I think the smallest is 0x400 bytes, which is a quarter of 0x0000 or 0x01000, or 64 tiles. That would make tile animation a lot easier and less "hacky".

As far as I know, MMC1 allows a maximum of 16 banks, so the expansion of banks is possible with MMC1. Just change the ROM's header, and then make sure the correct banks are swapped as needed. As for Zelda II specifically, you have to take bank 7 and move it to 15. I think the rest can be left where it is.

In Shadow of Night, the code for the Overworld bank swapping is at 0x2A40.

There already is a MMC1 to 3 hack, but of course there's the issue of it possibly not working on Everdrive or Retrocart.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 21, 2018, 11:19:02 am
How do you edit the text without using an separate text editor?

How do you edit the palettes for the final room after you beat Dark Link and wake up princess Zelda without an editor?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 21, 2018, 11:24:52 am
How do you edit the text without using an separate text editor?

How do you edit the palettes for the final room after you beat Dark Link and wake up princess Zelda without an editor?
Hex editing?

That's how I did the entire repointing and re-translation of the script.
Same for palette changes and such.
Editors are just the easy way of handling stuff, with them you most likely won't ever have to touch ROM addresses at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Out of that, I've been thinking about something quite neat, but I'm not sure if it would be well received.

What do you guys think about implementing a Blue tunic into the game?
Take the Shield spell as an example, once you use it, Link's tunic changes to Red.
I want to do something similar but for a Blue tunic.

I'm thinking one of two things.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on November 21, 2018, 06:42:35 pm
I'm a fan of the first option.

Also, I feel like the Fire spell should really be buffed in some way. Travel faster, do more damage (if feasible?), and definitely hurt all enemies.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 21, 2018, 09:47:41 pm
I think the final scene with Link, Zelda and the Triforce uses the same data as North Castle. If it's the case, then changing palettes could be tricky.

As for the tunic's color, the Shield spell puts the value #$16 in RAM $69DE (used for when Link flashes) and $070F (used for Link's color per se). RAM $070F is also used as the condition for Shield spell's effect, which is to half the damage received from enemies. If this variable is anything other than 0, then Shield is in effect. So, changing that color is a breeze, but having two types of tunics would require a bit of ASM.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 21, 2018, 09:52:23 pm
I think the final scene with Link, Zelda and the Triforce uses the same data as North Castle. If it's the case, then changing palettes could be tricky.

As for the tunic's color, the Shield spell puts the value #$16 in RAM $69DE (used for when Link flashes) and $070F (used for Link's color per se). RAM $070F is also used as the condition for Shield spell's effect, which is to half the damage received from enemies. If this variable is anything other than 0, then Shield is in effect. So, changing that color is a breeze, but having two types of tunics would require a bit of ASM.
Yep, that's what I suspected.
I was thinking of something like:

Code: [Select]
Shield routine:
    Jump on colour original opcode -> Is life level <5? -> Branch to blue color -> Else go to original code
Should be fairly easy to do, it's just that work and New MaternalBound have been taking all of my time recently to try it out soon enough.

Btw Trax, have you tried to do something like parsing text on the overworld pause screen by any chance?

I'm a fan of the first option.

Also, I feel like the Fire spell should really be buffed in some way. Travel faster, do more damage (if feasible?), and definitely hurt all enemies.

Is the Fire spell really that weak?
I have never used it in any playthrough to be honest (like 50+% of almost all spells lol)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Jeville on November 22, 2018, 03:49:18 am
Why Fire isn't useful is because it's generally better to just bypass the Fire-required enemies via downthrusting over them instead of killing them. Fire would have use if sword collision is removed on enemies that need Fire for the downthrust bypassing to fail.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 22, 2018, 08:20:11 pm
That's a good observation, Jeville. As far as I know, there are 2 enemies that absolutely require Fire to be killed: Tektite and Zora. Not even one boss. The spell is the most skippable of all. What makes Fire weak is that, other than the two aforementioned exceptions, it doesn't damage enemies more. Any enemy immune to the Flying Blade will also be immune against Fire. The advantage of Fire is that it goes through enemies and has unlimited range.

ShadowOne, keep in mind I'm not positive on the Ending Scene thing. Maybe there's a specific block of data in Bank 5. As for Shield, yes, it's the basic logic, so it's not complicated. And for the Pause thing, I don't really have time to check it out, mostly because I'm struggling with my own Overworld things, for my hack. I do know that RAM $79 and $7A are supposed to be the offset in the Name Table(s) for Overworld redrawing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 23, 2018, 06:39:19 pm
Well guys, I wanted to make a little challenge and attempt to do the tunic stuff today.
This is how it turned up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gHCbqnKAiQ

Just be careful...
The FPS are dreadful ;D

So in short words, if Link's life level is between 1 and 4, the Shield spell will turn Link's tunic to blue.
If it's 5 and above, the Shield spell will instead turn Link's tunic to red.

Let me know what you guys think :)
(Don't pay attention to any delays in the flashing or any slowdowns, the game works fine, it's just my Linux computer being absolute shit handling multiple Wine instances at once).

ShadowOne, keep in mind I'm not positive on the Ending Scene thing. Maybe there's a specific block of data in Bank 5. As for Shield, yes, it's the basic logic, so it's not complicated. And for the Pause thing, I don't really have time to check it out, mostly because I'm struggling with my own Overworld things, for my hack. I do know that RAM $79 and $7A are supposed to be the offset in the Name Table(s) for Overworld redrawing.
I'm a bit confused, I didn't mention anything about changing the Ending scene (that I recall :P).
Out of that, I will see if I can come up with something for the PAUSE message on pause in the overworld.

One more thing, Trax, do you happen to know how I would go about changing the "MAGIC", "LEVEL" and the Sword icon in the HUD/HUB?
I think the tile mapping at $962E only modifies the bars themselves and the numbers which change each level, but not those words nor the sword icon.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 23, 2018, 11:20:33 pm
@Trax - You are right about the final scene with Link, Zelda, and the Triforce. It does use the same palettes as the North Castle which is why it's proving to be a challenge to change. I'm going to look into your suggestion.

@ShadowOne - To be more precise, where in the hex editor do I go to modify text? I'm having a lot of trouble locating where to go.

Everyone is right about the Fire Spell, so I'm aiming to change that with my next hack and give the Fire Spell much more meaning and if possible change when you get the downward thrust so you have to fight more of the enemies that require fire.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 25, 2018, 02:51:36 am
ShadowOne, the ending thing was aimed at Ultima, but I used the wrong name. Anyway, good job with the tunic, it seems you can actually do ASM, right? :P

As for the HUD (stands for Heads Up Display) thing (you said $962E, but it's actually $162E in the ROM), there is another part in Bank 7, starting at $1D0D1. There, you have MAGIC, LIFE, NEXT, the sword tile, the magic bag tile, and the /0000 that is subsequently overwritten by whatever needs to be there. As a guide, PPU macros always use the same pattern:

AABB CC

AABB is the address to write to, big endian (AA is the most significant byte). Usually in the 2xxx range, because it's for the PPU.
CC is the number of bytes to process. Bits 6 and 7 can be used to denote either a repetition of a single byte, or whether the tiles should be layed down horizontally or vertically.

What follows is the actual bytes. All that is usually ended with FF, just to be sure.

In this specific case, there doesn't seem to be any FF, so I guess they must be processed one after the other, in one shot. The top-left corner of the screen is address $2000. Each horizontal line has 0x20 tiles (decimal 32), so the next line is $2020, then $2040, etc. Also, be careful because the level digits will not follow the tiles if you decide to change their locations.

Ultima, if you're talking about the text dialogs in Towns, the actual text data starts at $E380. Keep in mind that ShadowOne may have changed the location of at least some of the text because certain dialogs are now longer.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 27, 2018, 10:24:35 am
Oh yeah it's in 162E :P
Sorry got confused for a bit haha.

That explanation you gave was really awesome, Trax, thanks for that.
It really helped to understand how things are written and parsed into the screen, and it helped a lot to reallocate and rework the HUD with almost no issues:

(https://i.imgur.com/eMQw4ih.png)

That's what I have right now :)
I'm missing the diagonal slash that separates the earned experience from the next level experience, but that was just an oversight on my part I bet.
EDIT: Indeed, oversight on my part. Already fixed it, the diagonal dash is already there.


The only problem I have right now, is that white square you see next to "-LEVEL-" is not in the position I want it to.
That's the Magic tile which lowers when magic is used.
I just need to find a way to move that very tile to the correct position on top of the life meter.

Do you have any clues as to how I would go about moving that one to the correct position?

The horizontal position for those two is located at $168B and $168C.
$168B handles the Magic white bar, while $168C handles the Life red bar.
Right now I have the value at $168C set to [58], and the Life meter works properly now.
I just need to find a way to move the Magic meter bar to the above row, and that should be it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on November 27, 2018, 06:59:53 pm
Wow, that is a really nice HUD. Nicely done.

I was messing around with HD packs today and I wonder if when this project is complete, if it could be extended into the realms of HD graphics. The Mesen core means it'd work fine in Retroarch too. I mean the core controls and mechanics are pretty tight. There are pretty easy to understand tools to do such things and i'd be willing to donate some time to making more HD sprites if you wanted to push it past the point of perfection =P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on November 28, 2018, 01:18:45 am
Don't touch the L tile in the HUD.

This tile, as innocent as it may seem, is used to synchronize Sprite Zero, which is crucial for the timing of the HUD vs. the rest of the viewport, especially when it comes to scrolling. In the screenshot above, the L tile has been moved 2 tiles to the left. If you play the entire game and are absolutely certain that noting weird happens with vertical alignment of sprites or background tiles and scrolling, then you get a pass, but it's at your own risk.

As for the white Magic square, it's actually a sprite that is drawn in the background (there's a sprite attribute for that), and serves as the last container that is not full or empty. Full and empty containers are drawn as background tiles. Same for the Life square. These sprites move leftward as you take damage or consume magic, and rightward as you gain them.

I checked the code starting from the offset you gave me, and the code that sets the two sprites is a little further, starting at $17BB. There are 4 values written in sequence starting from $02F8 (this address is in a 2-byte table just before this routine, at $17B9), using the command STA ($00),Y. First value is 0F, which is the Y position of the sprites. This is your problem. The original game uses the same Y position for both. Your setup doesn't.

Second value is the tile code, taken from $1689 (70) or $168A (6E), depending of whether you're drawing Life or Magic. Third value is 0x21, which is the sprite attributes, and it sets the palette to 01 and activates the flag to draw the sprite in the background. Fourth value is the X position, taken from $168B or $168C, plus the value of the last unit of the meter.

Ideally, you'd have to rewrite the routine in a way that swaps the operations for X and Y positions. Your case has X position the same for both, so it would be hard-coded, and Y position different for each meter, so it would be taken from the table.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on November 30, 2018, 12:08:09 pm
Don't touch the L tile in the HUD.

This tile, as innocent as it may seem, is used to synchronize Sprite Zero, which is crucial for the timing of the HUD vs. the rest of the viewport, especially when it comes to scrolling. In the screenshot above, the L tile has been moved 2 tiles to the left. If you play the entire game and are absolutely certain that noting weird happens with vertical alignment of sprites or background tiles and scrolling, then you get a pass, but it's at your own risk.
I believe Shadow of Night also moves the L to the left a bit, but from what I've tested I haven't seen any particular issues so far related to sprites or backgrounds and scrolling.
Is there any particular thing I should look out for?
Like some sort of behaviour if the issue does pop up?

As for the white Magic square, it's actually a sprite that is drawn in the background (there's a sprite attribute for that), and serves as the last container that is not full or empty. Full and empty containers are drawn as background tiles. Same for the Life square. These sprites move leftward as you take damage or consume magic, and rightward as you gain them.

I checked the code starting from the offset you gave me, and the code that sets the two sprites is a little further, starting at $17BB. There are 4 values written in sequence starting from $02F8 (this address is in a 2-byte table just before this routine, at $17B9), using the command STA ($00),Y. First value is 0F, which is the Y position of the sprites. This is your problem. The original game uses the same Y position for both. Your setup doesn't.

Second value is the tile code, taken from $1689 (70) or $168A (6E), depending of whether you're drawing Life or Magic. Third value is 0x21, which is the sprite attributes, and it sets the palette to 01 and activates the flag to draw the sprite in the background. Fourth value is the X position, taken from $168B or $168C, plus the value of the last unit of the meter.

Ideally, you'd have to rewrite the routine in a way that swaps the operations for X and Y positions. Your case has X position the same for both, so it would be hard-coded, and Y position different for each meter, so it would be taken from the table.

Tried looking at the code.
I haven't come up with anything yet for it, I am trying to wrap my head around it first and see what I can do about it.
In the meanwhile, I tried looking at the same portion of code from Shadow of Night, to give me an idea on how that hack does it, but I couldn't find any difference in that particular part of the code, it seems the same as in vanilla Zelda II, so perhaps SoA does it in a different way.
I will try to continue studying the code and also try to find how SoA does it, whichever of the two ways manages to work or comes first :P



As for a little side-track, I tried to jump the gun and attempted to completely redraw the HUB yet again to something much more nice to the eye (and more close to the rest of the series).

This is a quick comparison of what I could do in-game compared to what my mockup was:

                       In-game                             /                         Mockup

(https://i.imgur.com/l3yZ286.png) (https://i.imgur.com/RjZWRoy.png)


Now there are some particular problems in this:

I tried to locate the part of the code where it loads the tables for the tile mappings, and found it at $16BD and $172E.
So, went ahead and reimplemented the tilemaps for those two in free-space, and tried separating them into proper tile maps in the AA BB XX format for each section, but i think this goes way beyond that, since the code I believe expects them to be right next to each other and with a set number of bytes, otherwise they won't be separated from each other.

Now, I will not continue with this attempt for a HUB redraw, I will only continue trying to move the magic square that keeps track of the magic number for the current HUB I showed a couple of post back.
No biggie here, I am not attempting this after this test since it is SO much work assembly-side, it's not even worth it, I just wanted to do it for fun and see how far I could go.

I am happy with just implementing the one I showed previously haha.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now with that said, guys, I decided to finally jump into the sprite editing stuff and redo some graphics for the game while still retaining their original look.
For example, I tried to be faithful to Link's original design, but retouch it in a way that makes it look much better than in vanilla Zelda II. He now has his yellow-ish stripe on his hat, his clothes closely resemble his original artwork and his sword no longer looks like a chicken drumstick.

For starters, I redid the title screen sword:

(https://i.imgur.com/WiJL47p.png)

I took inspiration from the one in the "New Link Sprite" hack, but I redid it in a way that is much more close to the original artwork (original had 4 red gems in the hilt, with a big one on top).
Now there is one more think I am thinking about doing to the title screen, and that is perhaps changing the grey hue of the stones to something like Rev Edition, with a more deep brown, I feel like that colour scheme is better to the eyes than the dull grey the game uses by default. This would also make the sword stand out and pop out a lot more.
What do you guys think?


For Link, I already retouched his whole sprite sheet, all I need now is to define a shield design for Link.
I tried to go for the original Link's artwork shield design, but it looks odd when implemented into the game (image #2).
All in all, I did 3 different designs for the shield:

(https://i.imgur.com/E4jBUBM.png) (https://i.imgur.com/IylKLCT.png) (https://i.imgur.com/KHNacTX.png)

I would like to know which shield you guys like the most.
I'm leaning towards the first one (brown shield with beige cross), the second one is the closest I could get to the original artwork (but doesn't look as good to me), and the third one who the fuck knows, I just did it for giggles.

So please, let me know what do you guys think about the possible changes to the title screen palette and to Link's shield.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Sara-chan on November 30, 2018, 12:34:58 pm
Personally think the first shield looks best.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on November 30, 2018, 01:02:32 pm
@ShadowOne

The title screen does look good. Any other changes to it would be an added bonus.

Your mock up of the HUD is be excellent if you can successfully make it happen.

The 1st shield is the best looking one.


@Trax

Thanks to your disassembly, I was able to find the palettes for the final room where you wake up Zelda.


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: jimstrom on November 30, 2018, 03:13:43 pm
I have to agree the first one look awesome!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mariosmentor on November 30, 2018, 03:32:50 pm
I'm all for the first shield as well. It's (somewhat) consistent with Zelda 1 that way.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Zanemato on November 30, 2018, 04:51:02 pm
The first shield is awesome, and is it possible to keep the title screen in golden color? Like the New Link Sprites Title Screen?

Thanks for this amazing work !!! This is going to be the most beautiful Zelda II hack ever, the "remake" I've always desired !
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on December 01, 2018, 07:11:13 pm
Wow, I love that HUD and title screen. Well done!
As for sprite edits, i'm partial to #1 but i'd advise basing your edits on Rev editions, sprites as the sword and face look much nicer.
You're taking this places I really didn't expect. This is a really nice update ^_^

One thing Revility tried to do was tie the series in more cohesively, changing the hammer to bombs, the fireball spell to the boomerang, etc. It might be worth considering doing similar ;) Til then, everyone can always patch Rev Edition with yours but the new title screen means the New Sprites hack is no longer necessary to stack on top (though great work of course)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 03, 2018, 06:03:52 pm
Seems like Shield #1 wins then :P
That's the one I implemented as default too :D

Well, with that, I think only thing remaining before the next beta is to flip the Magic white bar (the one that keeps track of how much Magic has been used) to one row up, and keep the Life bar (red rectangle keeping track of life) to its current row, which is what Trax's info was for.
I am still looking around the game's code to see how to flip it, and also trying to RE Shadow of Night to see how that one did it.

Once that is done, only two things shall remain:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on December 04, 2018, 06:09:35 pm
Enigma is good though, or straight up Polymorph XD

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: jimstrom on December 04, 2018, 06:16:20 pm
Reveal?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 04, 2018, 06:17:31 pm
Reveal?
Can't be Reveal, because it also has a secondary effect, in which it changes enemies to other types of enemies when in battle.

The options I have right now are Enigma, Expose, Emerge, Rise and Sight.
Reveal and Unveil could work, but it's that secondary effect which somewhat kills those, unless you count Reveal/Unveil as "Revealing the true nature of the enemy" or some shit like that xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mariosmentor on December 04, 2018, 09:21:51 pm
I got one. Presto! Complete with the exclamation point. Magicians say that all the time when pulling off various magic tricks. Think about it:

Watch me as I make a building appear from nowhere! Presto!

Watch me as I turn this monster into a Bot! Presto!

What do you think?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on December 04, 2018, 11:56:54 pm
I have to show my opposition to "Reveal" only because it's exactly the name of one of my spells in my future hack. But hey, nothing personal. :crazy:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on December 05, 2018, 11:18:00 am
How about "Expose?"

It both exposes enemies, making them into Bots, and exposes the secret in New Kasuto with the Magic Key.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 05, 2018, 12:06:07 pm
Current proposals for "Spell" spell's new name:
Added a poll to the topic, so please vote!

For the name, we should take into consideration the official instruction manual description for the "Spell" spell:
"Magic to cast eerie spells.  Its effect is still not fully known.  It is also said that it'll make the enemy tremble in fear."
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on December 09, 2018, 09:22:02 am
As far as the spell name, I like Expose.

I also like what you did with the Shield spell ShadowOne.

Here's an idea. How about changing the palette when the Reflect spell is cast? Change Link to either a whitish or golden color w/ red like the Mirror Shield from Ocarina Of Time.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: # on December 09, 2018, 03:17:17 pm
Current proposals for "Spell" spell's new name:
  • Reveal
  • Unveil
  • Enigma
  • Expose
Added a poll to the topic, so please vote!

For the name, we should take into consideration the official instruction manual description for the "Spell" spell:
"Magic to cast eerie spells.  Its effect is still not fully known.  It is also said that it'll make the enemy tremble in fear."
Taking the manual into consideration only Enigma fits the bill. The other names don't fit for its other use either.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 10, 2018, 10:49:25 am
Thanks to all the people that have been voting so far!
I plan on closing the poll by Friday (my b-day :P) to settle on a name.

Still though, I want to give people the option to rename the spell if they do want it to be something else.
I don't know if you guys noticed, but ALL of the names in the poll have exactly 6 letters each.
This will help a lot if any of you want to rename the spell.

I will explain how to do the edit in a hex editor. Should be as simple as going to the correct offset, and copy-pasting some bytes I will write.
But more details on that later this week. :)

In the meanwhile, I am still trying to switch the Magic tile which handles the magic meter.
Haven't been able to do much progress on that forefront yet, but I hope I can get it to work soon enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on December 13, 2018, 01:41:54 pm
Does anyone know how to rip this game apart to its individual components? I would like to swap some of the music and sounds out and replace it with other Zelda music and sounds.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on December 13, 2018, 08:35:35 pm
Does anyone know how to rip this game apart to its individual components? I would like to swap some of the music and sounds out and replace it with other Zelda music and sounds.

I would like to do something with the music with my hack id be interested as well if anyone knows

most i want to do something simple such as add LoZ nes dungeon music to 3 out of 6 of the palaces

and maybe add one sound effect from z2 some place else in z2
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 14, 2018, 01:50:34 pm
Well guys!
It's December 14th, and today we wrap up the poll voting for the "Spell" spell's name!
And the winner is...

Enigma spell!

Thank you for all of those that voted and gave their ideas for the name.
Enigma will be the final name used for the spell in Redux :)

But fear not!
I will not leave those that want a different name in the dark!
If you want to change the name to something else, here's how to do it:

And that's it!
That's all you have to do to rename Spell to whatever name you want.
Just take into consideration that you should only replace 6 bytes, no more!
You can have a bit more letters for the spell name, but if you are not really adept in hacking, I recommend you not to add more than 6 letters, 7 tops.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So with this, I believe this will be my last update for 2018.
I will go on vacations this Monday, so I won't be able to work on Redux until January 2019.

Here's the latest beta of Zelda 2 Redux!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvdifz01ub13ywz/Zelda2ReduxBeta2.ips?dl=0


You can see the new Link sprites I made in action, as well as the new HUD, new title screen sword!
Only thing is that I still haven't figured out how to move the white square which moves when you consume magic to the above row where the Magic meter is located, but out of that everything else should be working :)

If anyone does manage to find a fix to move the white square to the top, please let me know!

ENJOY! :D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on December 16, 2018, 04:32:13 pm
Here are my observations so far:

- The JUMP spell in the Pause pane has a bad tile mapping.
- I think spells should never have odd numbers for magic consumption. Ex.: LIFE spell at 25 magic cost. My rationale is, we should be able to tell the difference on screen.
- A Bot in the first palace deals a whole heart of damage at Life level 2. Is that intentional? I think it's excessive.
- Bubbles (flashing skull heads in palaces) should definitely be worth less than 50 points, especially when they can be killed with very few hits. I suggest 20. Maybe a bit more for Fast Bubbles?

- Correct the White Magic Square in the HUD, but that's already acknowledged by ShadowOne.

Other than that, it's very good. The Intro story makes sense, the dialogs are WAY better. The Overworld animations are a nice touch. I don't really like the longer sword, not because I think the sword shouldn't be lengthened, but because the hitboxes are the same (as far as I know), so it's basically a visual illusion.

And to answer UltimaWeapon and ItemDrop on the subject of music, you could do it by studying how the music is coded. Most likely, you'd have to do it by hand. Music is in Bank 6. I think Bank 6 is entirely dedicated to music, and it has unused space left. I already decoded the basic processes for music, even though I didn't disassemble the entire bank. Check out my diassembly of Bank 6 (http://www.bwass.org/romhack/zelda2/zelda2bank6.txt) and look for offset 1853F. This is where the Intro song notes are stored. At least, part of it.

The code is very simple, however the tedious part is the process of converting notes from, say, sheet music to these codes. You also have to convert offsets if you intend to add or delete notes from certain music tracks. Here's the basic rules:

- Bit 7 set means it's a note length change. Bits 0-6 set the new length code. I presume there is a limited number of note lengths to choose from.
- Bit 7 clear means bits 0-6 set the note pitch. For example, value 42 is note A4.
- Odd numbers for note pitch don't seem to work.
- 02 is a silence, with current length value.
- 00 denotes the end of the part.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on December 17, 2018, 02:21:07 am
@Trax - This looks like for adjusting the songs tones and pitch that are already there making them higher or lower or faster, etc. While this is good info, I want to be able to completely remove some songs and replace them with others. For example replacing the current palace music with Super Mario Bros 2 dungeon music.


After further discussion, with NES files, everything is basically hard coded into the one file. So to my further understanding, not only will the coding have to be modified in hex, but some ASM(which I completely don't know) would also have to be used if I want to change some of the music and sounds?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on December 17, 2018, 12:49:41 pm
I don't really like the longer sword, not because I think the sword shouldn't be lengthened, but because the hitboxes are the same (as far as I know), so it's basically a visual illusion.

I find the New Link Sprites hack version much better:

(http://i66.tinypic.com/v2xxdc.jpg) (http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly52yh.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2wn6b6r.jpg) (http://i63.tinypic.com/23mu594.jpg)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on December 18, 2018, 09:28:28 am
I prefer the original link sprite a lot more. I commend the attempt to change it but it's just not my thing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on December 18, 2018, 02:56:00 pm
The New Link Sprites are good. I like Revility's Rev Edition sprites even better.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on December 18, 2018, 07:19:25 pm
I second Revility's sprite. A longer sword is fine once you get a feel for the hit boxes and it overall looks much better and more inline with other Links in the series. All the other swords kinda look like little knives, daggers or gladius' and I prefer Link with what looks like more of a sword.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on December 19, 2018, 12:29:59 pm
 
"Rev Edition 1.6.00" + "Redux Beta2" + "New Link Sprites" + "Restart from palace at game over" =


 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zyeg9kn0ymz766v/Zelda%20II%20-%20The%20Adventure%20of%20Link%20%28U%29%20%5BHacks%5D.ips?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zyeg9kn0ymz766v/Zelda%20II%20-%20The%20Adventure%20of%20Link%20%28U%29%20%5BHacks%5D.ips?dl=0)

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on December 20, 2018, 06:49:02 pm
@darthvaderx:
Thanks for that!

Though correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all of the Redux betas should already include the "Restart from palace at Game over", don't they?

That was one of the features right from the start, can anyone please check if both the normal beta in OP and the newest Beta 2 in page 17 have said feature, please?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on December 21, 2018, 08:45:24 am
I'll have to redownload the beta 2, but all the other versions did have the restart from the palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on December 21, 2018, 11:17:12 am
@darthvaderx:
Thanks for that!

Though correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all of the Redux betas should already include the "Restart from palace at Game over", don't they?

That was one of the features right from the start, can anyone please check if both the normal beta in OP and the newest Beta 2 in page 17 have said feature, please?

I just tested it now and both hacks already have this feature, I'm sorry.
But the last patch with the three hacks provided above has a glitch in the swamp areas, it's the same conflict of different graphics that you solved with Redux + Rev + NewLink.ips and that I had not checked so far.

Here in this link the fix if you are going to use Redux beta2 and Rev Edition together but still with the swamp areas problem, if you can work on it after your vacation I will be very grateful, this patch can be applied in all the updates of the other hacks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9e87uzaxd8r4z2x/Redux%2BRev%2BNewLinkFix.ips?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9e87uzaxd8r4z2x/Redux%2BRev%2BNewLinkFix.ips?dl=0)

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 08, 2019, 03:51:01 pm
Guess who's back?
Back again.
Shadow's back
Tell a friend. 8)

Time to continue development on Zelda II Redux, let's hope the last points can be cleared out before Q1 2019 ends :P

Here are my observations so far:

- The JUMP spell in the Pause pane has a bad tile mapping.
- I think spells should never have odd numbers for magic consumption. Ex.: LIFE spell at 25 magic cost. My rationale is, we should be able to tell the difference on screen.
- A Bot in the first palace deals a whole heart of damage at Life level 2. Is that intentional? I think it's excessive.
- Bubbles (flashing skull heads in palaces) should definitely be worth less than 50 points, especially when they can be killed with very few hits. I suggest 20. Maybe a bit more for Fast Bubbles?

- Correct the White Magic Square in the HUD, but that's already acknowledged by ShadowOne.

Other than that, it's very good. The Intro story makes sense, the dialogs are WAY better. The Overworld animations are a nice touch. I don't really like the longer sword, not because I think the sword shouldn't be lengthened, but because the hitboxes are the same (as far as I know), so it's basically a visual illusion.
Thanks for those points, Trax!


As for sword, the only thing I did was rework Link's sprite so that his arms don't take as much tile-space as they used to before, and the sword is simply narrower to make it look like a proper sword instead of making it look like Link is holding a chicken drumstick ;D

I will try to address those issues this week, might have a new beta ready by Friday hopefully.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on January 09, 2019, 04:04:30 am
@ShadowOne - Each magic container is a total of 16 points for an overall total of 128 with all 8 containers. To take the magic use see balanced, you should use multiples of 4, 8, and 16 for your spell usage and not 0 or 5 unless the zero falls into one of the multiples like 20, 40, or 80. If 1 magic container is 16, then 2 is 32, 3 is 48, 4 is 64, 5 is 80, 6 is 96, 7 is 112, and all 8 is 128. Now, if you find a way to increase the max number, I'm all ears! LOL!

Also, you still need to fix the HUD display as well. I know that's at the top of you list.

As a suggestion you or Trax can try is to implement a map of the overworld you are in when you pause the game on the overworld. That would be great.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: XianJip on January 09, 2019, 12:04:54 pm
This looks nice!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: niuus on January 12, 2019, 12:04:23 pm
Awesome hack, ShadowOne333. Eager to play this when it's finished.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 14, 2019, 11:42:01 am
@ShadowOne - Each magic container is a total of 16 points for an overall total of 128 with all 8 containers. To take the magic use see balanced, you should use multiples of 4, 8, and 16 for your spell usage and not 0 or 5 unless the zero falls into one of the multiples like 20, 40, or 80. If 1 magic container is 16, then 2 is 32, 3 is 48, 4 is 64, 5 is 80, 6 is 96, 7 is 112, and all 8 is 128. Now, if you find a way to increase the max number, I'm all ears! LOL!

Also, you still need to fix the HUD display as well. I know that's at the top of you list.

As a suggestion you or Trax can try is to implement a map of the overworld you are in when you pause the game on the overworld. That would be great.

Well I already have the magic consumption that way, in multipliers of 4.
Every magic has some number which is a direct multiply of 4, so that's how it already is.

What Trax meant is using odd numbers to see the difference on-screen
Odd numbers are basically those that don't end with a reminder of 0 when divided by two.
In other words, any number which ends in a 1, 3, 5, 7 or 9.

I already fixed the wrong tile in the JUMP spell tiles, next up should be the Bot which apparently gives a whole heart of damage in the First palace.
Anyone knows which Bot this is specifically? I still haven't found that enemy yet.


Awesome hack, ShadowOne333. Eager to play this when it's finished.

Thanks, dude! :D
I'm in the finishing touches of the hack, hopefully I can get this done before March haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on January 14, 2019, 06:51:14 pm
It's not a specific Bot, just the enemy type itself. For enemies such as Bots and Bits, I'd expect a half heart of damage at most.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on January 27, 2019, 02:30:04 am
Do you still need to separate the EXP from the health bar?  I was looking through my notes, but I couldn't find anything on the HUD.  I think the notes for that might be on my old computer, which I used to hack Zelda II back then.  Anyway, I opened a clean rom and did some testing to re-create the HUD I made in Shadow of Night, and I remembered how I separated the exp from the health bar.  (something you needed help with, right?)

Well, here is a screenshot to help me explain:

(https://i.imgur.com/iqejmr0.png)

There are 3 parts to the exp counter.  Part 1 and 2 are the green highlighted portion, and part 3 is the red.  The yellow highlighted portion is what you see in game, and purple is what I did for Shadow of Night.


Part 1 is at 0x1655.

20 6E 10 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 D0 D0 D0 D0 CE D0 D0 D0

This line of code is the entire green portion of the screenshot.  6E is the position in the HUD, and 10 (16) is the length of tiles.  So without having any digits in the exp counter, you would only see 0000/000.  Those are static tiles.

Part 2 is the actual position of each digit within the above range of tiles.

0x1769   - Position of tens digit for current xp value.
0x176E   - Position of hundreds digit for current xp value.
0x1773   - Position of thousands digits for current xp value.
0x1777   - Position of ones digit for current xp value.

0x1789   - Position of tens digit in required xp value.
0x178E   - Position of hundreds digit in required xp value.
0x1793   - Position of thousands digit in required xp value.

The tens digit in the required exp is the LAST digit within the counter.  There is no ones digit since it is never used.  If you try to move a digit outside of the counter's range of tiles, it won't be visible.

Part 3 is at 0x1D101.

20 7A 05 CE D0 D0 D0 D0

This line of code is the red potion of the screenshot.  It is a static string of tiles, and its only purpose is to have a ones digit in the required exp.  It sits behind the actual exp counter, and looks like this /0000 in game.  7A is the position, and 05 is the length of tiles.

What I did for Shadow of Night is the purple highlighted area in the screenshot.  In that hack, I never used the ones digit OR tens digit for required exp.  I sacrificed the tens digit by moving it out of Part 1's available range of 10 (16) tiles.

You probably don't want to do that, since Zelda II uses the tens digit for required exp, so your only option is to relocate the data in Part 1, and extend its range of tiles to 11 (17).  Then you could freely moves all digits of the counter one space over.

As for the white tile in the magic meter, if I remember correctly, all I did was open Tile Layer Pro and moved the actual white square up one space.  It made the boss health bars have an "empty" space between their remaining red bars and the white bars.  It wasn't too big of a deal so I just left it, ha ha.  I'm pretty sure that's how I did that, but I'll check to make sure.  There is definitely a better way to do that.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 28, 2019, 05:01:29 pm
Do you still need to separate the EXP from the health bar?  I was looking through my notes, but I couldn't find anything on the HUD.  I think the notes for that might be on my old computer, which I used to hack Zelda II back then.  Anyway, I opened a clean rom and did some testing to re-create the HUD I made in Shadow of Night, and I remembered how I separated the exp from the health bar.  (something you needed help with, right?)

Well, here is a screenshot to help me explain:

(https://i.imgur.com/iqejmr0.png)

There are 3 parts to the exp counter.  Part 1 and 2 are the green highlighted portion, and part 3 is the red.  The yellow highlighted portion is what you see in game, and purple is what I did for Shadow of Night.


Part 1 is at 0x1655.

20 6E 10 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 D0 D0 D0 D0 CE D0 D0 D0

This line of code is the entire green portion of the screenshot.  6E is the position in the HUD, and 10 (16) is the length of tiles.  So without having any digits in the exp counter, you would only see 0000/000.  Those are static tiles.

Part 2 is the actual position of each digit within the above range of tiles.

0x1769   - Position of tens digit for current xp value.
0x176E   - Position of hundreds digit for current xp value.
0x1773   - Position of thousands digits for current xp value.
0x1777   - Position of ones digit for current xp value.

0x1789   - Position of tens digit in required xp value.
0x178E   - Position of hundreds digit in required xp value.
0x1793   - Position of thousands digit in required xp value.

The tens digit in the required exp is the LAST digit within the counter.  There is no ones digit since it is never used.  If you try to move a digit outside of the counter's range of tiles, it won't be visible.

Part 3 is at 0x1D101.

20 7A 05 CE D0 D0 D0 D0

This line of code is the red potion of the screenshot.  It is a static string of tiles, and its only purpose is to have a ones digit in the required exp.  It sits behind the actual exp counter, and looks like this /0000 in game.  7A is the position, and 05 is the length of tiles.

What I did for Shadow of Night is the purple highlighted area in the screenshot.  In that hack, I never used the ones digit OR tens digit for required exp.  I sacrificed the tens digit by moving it out of Part 1's available range of 10 (16) tiles.

You probably don't want to do that, since Zelda II uses the tens digit for required exp, so your only option is to relocate the data in Part 1, and extend its range of tiles to 11 (17).  Then you could freely moves all digits of the counter one space over.

As for the white tile in the magic meter, if I remember correctly, all I did was open Tile Layer Pro and moved the actual white square up one space.  It made the boss health bars have an "empty" space between their remaining red bars and the white bars.  It wasn't too big of a deal so I just left it, ha ha.  I'm pretty sure that's how I did that, but I'll check to make sure.  There is definitely a better way to do that.

That write up is really nice, IcePenguin!
Thanks!

I think I tried to do something in the vein of relocating the data found at Part 1 (0x1655) to some other place.
However, I think the only pointer or call to that particular section of the ROM is located at 0x173E, with [BD 41 96] or LDA $9641.
I tried to move the data around to some other place where I could write additional entries for that code, with something like [20 6C 11 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 CE F4 F4 F4],  but for some reason I kept getting glitched tiles when trying to place the data somewhere else and changing the [BD 41 96] correspondingly.
Maybe I didn't make the repointing as it should have been, but I'll try again just in case.

I'll also add a data comparison between both the Original Zelda II and Shadow of Night. Maybe this can help for others.

Code: [Select]
* Part 1 (0x1655) -
Original:
[20 6E 10 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 D0 D0 D0 D0 CE D0 D0 D0]

Shadow of Night:
[20 6C 10 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 CE F4 F4]

* Part 2:
0x1768 - Original: [99 13 03] / SoA: [99 14 03]
0x176D - Original: [99 12 03] / SoA: [99 13 03]
0x1772 - Original: [99 11 03] / SoA: [99 12 03]
0x1776 - Original: [99 14 03] / SoA: [99 15 03]

0x1788 - Original: [99 18 03] / SoA: [99 1A 03]
0x178D - Original: [99 17 03] / SoA: [99 18 03]
0x1792 - Original: [99 16 03] / SoA: [99 17 03]

* Part 3:
Original: [20 7A 05 CE D0 D0 D0 D0] / SoA: [20 7C 05 D0 D0 F4 F4 F4]

As for the white tile for the Magic meter, it was just through tile editing?
I opened both SoA and Redux in YY-CHR and the white tile is basically the same in both, so I'm not sure if that one is entirely all just tile editing, it could be something else, maybe one opcode which determines the Y position of said tile.


Thank you so much for dropping this info, IcePenguin, even though you didn't have the notes at hand, you took your time to recreate the hack. I really appreciate it, thanks!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on January 29, 2019, 12:18:43 am
Here is a solution.  Pulled it off with no glitches, and seems to work fine!  You can test it more thoroughly if you wish.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/Y6eAbHT.png)

Copy this:

20 52 01 D1 20 6E 11 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 D0 D0 D0 D0 CE D0 D0 D0 FF

To 0x28C0.

Change the pointer at 0x173F from 41 96, to B0 A8.

At 0x1747, change the value from 18 to 19.  This is probably why you were experiencing issues with simply increasing the range of tiles from 10(16) to 11 (17).  The Life counter was taking into consideration the length of bytes from 0x1651 to 0x1668.  (which is the life counter, health, and exp)  So you have to extend that, as well.  I could be wrong on if that's actually what the game is doing, but just from looking at it, I'm pretty sure it is.

After that, move all digits in the exp counter one space to the right.  Oh, and also move the static string of tiles at 0x1D101 one space to the right.   :woot!: 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 29, 2019, 10:44:15 am
Here is a solution.  Pulled it off with no glitches, and seems to work fine!  You can test it more thoroughly if you wish.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/Y6eAbHT.png)

Copy this:

20 52 01 D1 20 6E 11 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 D0 D0 D0 D0 CE D0 D0 D0 FF

To 0x28C0.

Change the pointer at 0x173F from 41 96, to B0 A8.

At 0x1747, change the value from 18 to 19.  This is probably why you were experiencing issues with simply increasing the range of tiles from 10(16) to 11 (17).  The Life counter was taking into consideration the length of bytes from 0x1651 to 0x1668.  (which is the life counter, health, and exp)  So you have to extend that, as well.  I could be wrong on if that's actually what the game is doing, but just from looking at it, I'm pretty sure it is.

After that, move all digits in the exp counter one space to the right.  Oh, and also move the static string of tiles at 0x1D101 one space to the right.   :woot!: 

Success! :woot!:

(https://i.imgur.com/O4JKUNM.png)

The byte at 0x1747 is the one that was giving me issues, that's why I couldn't get the tens digit to show up.
I also had to change the byte at 0x1788 from 0x1B to 0x19 so that the number in the tens shows up properly too.
Also, I had to change the pointer to somewhere else in the ROM, somewhere near the tunic changing routine I made, at $AB50, or PC address 0x2B60.
Now it's all working nicely :D



Now here's the last thing that needs to be done:
(https://i.imgur.com/CLWtVIl.png)

To move that white tile (which is the one that moves when you use magic, the tile that tracks the magic consumption) up one row, while retaining the red one for the hearts in the same row.

Once that is done, the whole new HUD should be ready to go :)

Thank you SO much for your help, IcePenguin, it is really appreciated that you take your time to recreate all of this from scratch.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on January 29, 2019, 05:26:54 pm
Happy to help when I can!  :)  Took another look at the white magic tile, and for Shadow of Night, I simply moved the tile up through tile editing, and also moved it with its X position value.  The side effect is having that "empty" space in boss health bars.  If you fight a boss in Shadow of Night, you'll see what I mean.

Here is what I did:

(https://i.imgur.com/1GLib81.png)

The top row of tiles is original Zelda II.  The bottom row is what I did in Shadow of Night.

Then I changed its X position to the same as the health:  (so it's right above)

0x1699 - Tile used for sliding magic tile.
0x169A - Tile used for sliding health tile.
0x169B - X position for sliding magic tile.
0x169C - X position for sliding health tile.

That is one solution, but comes with the empty space side effect in boss health bars.  I'm positive that is the only side effect, and for me, doesn't seem like such a bad thing.  The obvious better option is to locate the Y position for this tile, but I'm willing to bet that the sliding magic tile and health tile share the same Y position.


Edit:
If you have any extra gfx tiles to use, you could make a new white tile for the boss health bar and have it use that instead of sharing one with Link.  Or just make a new one for Link.  Either way.  :P

Here is some data on the boss health bar.  It would be a good solution and have no side effects.

0x11C64  - Y position for boss health bar.
0x11C68  - Tiles for empty white tiles in boss health bar.
0x11C6D  - Tiles for red tiles in boss health bar.
0x11C72  - Palette used for boss health bar.
0x11C77  - X position for boss health bar.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 31, 2019, 12:24:01 pm
Happy to help when I can!  :)  Took another look at the white magic tile, and for Shadow of Night, I simply moved the tile up through tile editing, and also moved it with its X position value.  The side effect is having that "empty" space in boss health bars.  If you fight a boss in Shadow of Night, you'll see what I mean.

Here is what I did:

(https://i.imgur.com/1GLib81.png)

The top row of tiles is original Zelda II.  The bottom row is what I did in Shadow of Night.

Then I changed its X position to the same as the health:  (so it's right above)

0x1699 - Tile used for sliding magic tile.
0x169A - Tile used for sliding health tile.
0x169B - X position for sliding magic tile.
0x169C - X position for sliding health tile.

That is one solution, but comes with the empty space side effect in boss health bars.  I'm positive that is the only side effect, and for me, doesn't seem like such a bad thing.  The obvious better option is to locate the Y position for this tile, but I'm willing to bet that the sliding magic tile and health tile share the same Y position.

WHAT KIND OF DARK MAGIC IS THIS?!
Holy shit, like really I didn't expect the solution to that to just be a simple tile edit. xD
The HUD is now working properly :)
The only issue remaining is indeed the Boss' HP meter, which behaves oddly when hit:

                    Original Zelda II                                Zelda II Redux (New HUD)
(https://i.imgur.com/W6y1WSf.png) (https://i.imgur.com/lamaq4a.png)

So what happens is that when the first red rectangle of health is deplenished, the white tile appears one tile above where it should. That's all.

Edit:
If you have any extra gfx tiles to use, you could make a new white tile for the boss health bar and have it use that instead of sharing one with Link.  Or just make a new one for Link.  Either way.  :P

Here is some data on the boss health bar.  It would be a good solution and have no side effects.

0x11C64  - Y position for boss health bar.
0x11C68  - Tiles for empty white tiles in boss health bar.
0x11C6D  - Tiles for red tiles in boss health bar.
0x11C72  - Palette used for boss health bar.
0x11C77  - X position for boss health bar.

Interesting.
Though I think that means that I'll have to search for two available tiles (one blank, one with the white rectangle) in every instance where the HUD graphics are used, and I think the game uses like a lot of banks for this :P
I'll see if I can manage to find some suitable empty tiles for each one, hopefully that doesn't change anything else graphics-wise in the game once re-implemented.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: dACE on January 31, 2019, 01:00:05 pm
What would happen if you moved the boss health-bar up by one tile (Y-8)?
Wouldn’t that solve it?

/dACE
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 31, 2019, 01:02:06 pm
What would happen if you moved the boss health-bar up by one tile (Y-8)?
Wouldn’t that solve it?

/dACE
Tried that, but if you move the Y position of the health bar, the WHOLE health bar moves, that means both red and white tiles as a single object.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on January 31, 2019, 05:38:10 pm
Here is what I recommend.  If you are willing to adjust enemy exp, this will work.  Also, I think the exp values are more accurate this way because the blue fokka in the great palace should have more than 100 exp.  It's the toughest enemy!  :P

So here is my solution.  Only 3 enemies in the game use the "7" in the tiles for the pop up exp after being killed.  Blue Stalfos Knight, Red Fokka, and Barba Boss.  If you made the following changes, it would free up the "7" tiles highlighted with red in the image:

(https://i.imgur.com/8tQr4yc.png)

Then change Barba to give 1000exp, and Thunderbird 1500exp (should be higher than Barba, I think), and then update the pop up exp tiles accordingly for all of these enemies.  I'm sure no one would mind getting more exp, ha ha.  Anyway, that's just one solution.  It's simple, and comes with positives.  (extra exp)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on January 31, 2019, 06:49:20 pm
:pops head in:
Or you could just eliminate the pop up numbers entirely?
:runs back home:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on January 31, 2019, 10:04:44 pm
The white bar trick is not dark magic, it's just because sprites always use two tiles, n and n+1. What IcePenguin did is, he set the white box graphic as the top tile (the n tile) and an empty (transparent) graphic as the bottom tile (the n+1 tile). It's clever, it works for the HUD, but since it has a side effect elsewhere, it's not ideal. The reason the Boss Meter is displaced is because it's made of sprites, and not part of the background. The white meter portion uses the same offset as the magic box, so it's shifted up.

The original code lays out the red and white boxes as the same Y position, but different X positions. What we want here is exactly the opposite: same X, different Y. Likely, the code could be modified without even having to bridge.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on January 31, 2019, 11:36:36 pm
:pops head in:
Or you could just eliminate the pop up numbers entirely?
:runs back home:

That would certainly create a lot of free space!   :laugh:


The white bar trick is not dark magic, it's just because sprites always use two tiles, n and n+1. What IcePenguin did is, he set the white box graphic as the top tile (the n tile) and an empty (transparent) graphic as the bottom tile (the n+1 tile). It's clever, it works for the HUD, but since it has a side effect elsewhere, it's not ideal. The reason the Boss Meter is displaced is because it's made of sprites, and not part of the background. The white meter portion uses the same offset as the magic box, so it's shifted up.

The original code lays out the red and white boxes as the same Y position, but different X positions. What we want here is exactly the opposite: same X, different Y. Likely, the code could be modified without even having to bridge.

Do they have a Y position value?  I'm not doubting you, or anything, since you're extremely knowledgeable when it comes to Zelda II.   In an earlier post I made, I even mentioned something about the magic tile and health tile sharing the same Y value, but I'm not so sure it works that way.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  :)

With every element in the HUD, there has only been data to indicate an X position.  For things like the life stat, magic meter, etc.  if it goes beyond a certain X position, it is shifted down to the next line in the HUD.  However, with the magic tile and health tile, it simply wraps to the other side of the screen without shifting down.  So I'm thinking there may be no Y position in the traditional sense, and they would instead have to be changed to work the same way as everything else, and shift down when exceeding a certain X position.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 01, 2019, 12:02:43 am
Do they have a Y position value?  I'm not doubting you, or anything, since you're extremely knowledgeable when it comes to Zelda II.   In an earlier post I made, I even mentioned something about the magic tile and health tile sharing the same Y value, but I'm not so sure it works that way.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  :)

With every element in the HUD, there has only been data to indicate an X position.  For things like the life stat, magic meter, etc.  if it goes beyond a certain X position, it is shifted down to the next line in the HUD.  However, with the magic tile and health tile, it simply wraps to the other side of the screen without shifting down.  So I'm thinking there may be no Y position in the traditional sense, and they would instead have to be changed to work the same way as everything else, and shift down when exceeding a certain X position.

Oh the 7 exp number sure is an interesting idea, and quite feasible, although it sacrifices some balancing.
I'll keep it in mind :)
I will play around with it next week for sure!

As for what Trax mentioned, he did make a post about it some pages ago, here:

As for the white Magic square, it's actually a sprite that is drawn in the background (there's a sprite attribute for that), and serves as the last container that is not full or empty. Full and empty containers are drawn as background tiles. Same for the Life square. These sprites move leftward as you take damage or consume magic, and rightward as you gain them.

I checked the code starting from the offset you gave me, and the code that sets the two sprites is a little further, starting at $17BB. There are 4 values written in sequence starting from $02F8 (this address is in a 2-byte table just before this routine, at $17B9), using the command STA ($00),Y. First value is 0F, which is the Y position of the sprites. This is your problem. The original game uses the same Y position for both. Your setup doesn't.

Second value is the tile code, taken from $1689 (70) or $168A (6E), depending of whether you're drawing Life or Magic. Third value is 0x21, which is the sprite attributes, and it sets the palette to 01 and activates the flag to draw the sprite in the background. Fourth value is the X position, taken from $168B or $168C, plus the value of the last unit of the meter.

Ideally, you'd have to rewrite the routine in a way that swaps the operations for X and Y positions. Your case has X position the same for both, so it would be hard-coded, and Y position different for each meter, so it would be taken from the table.

His idea about swapping the X position in the code for the Y position instead is pretty interesting, but I couldn't follow on with that one due to my limited knowledge in assembly :/
But it would be a nice thing to revisit for sure!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 01, 2019, 01:43:12 am
Thanks for re-posting Trax's post.  Now I understand.  The solution is simple!

At 0x17DF you have this data:

AA A9 0F

This is using the immediate value of 0F for both Y positions.  So let's change that, and point the data elsewhere.  Something you've probably done many times now, ha ha.

Replace it with BD B0 A8 (or any other address with free space).

For my example, I'm pointing to 0x28C0 and adding:

08 0F

Both tiles will have their own Y position.  The first byte is used by the magic tile, and the second is used by the health tile.  Thanks to Trax for the great info!   :)

Here is an image to show the result.  (no tile editing done)  I used Y positions 08 0C in the screenshot, but you'll want to use 08 0F which is the desired position you are looking for.
(https://i.imgur.com/ItjWeUE.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 01, 2019, 12:11:56 pm
That...
Worked :D

(https://i.imgur.com/zL7BQ45.png)

Thank you so much, Trax and IcePenguin!

I never would have thought about making that one a BD opcode, that was nice :)
I moved the position values to address 0x2B80 (or $AB70), alongside the new repointed table for the HUD Exp stuff.

All in all, everything should be working properly now :)
So with that said...

Here's the latest beta patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0


This might be one of the very last betas before release.
Hopefully nothing goes out of place. :P

As always, let me know if there's something off or anything, so I can take a look at it and fix it asap.
With the latest changes done to the HUD, as like the white/red tiles positions, and the repointing of something like the Life meter + Exp counter, I think redrawing the HUD yet again might be now feasible.
I will try to do what I tried to do some months ago:

This is a quick comparison of what I could do in-game compared to what my mockup was:
                       In-game                             /                         Mockup
(https://i.imgur.com/l3yZ286.png) (https://i.imgur.com/RjZWRoy.png)


Now there are some particular problems in this:
  • The same issue with one of the meter bars moving only in an X position
  • The PPU tilemap for the life meter is tied with the Exp zeroes. This is why they always tend to show up right next to each other.
  • The PPU tilemap for the magic meter is tied with the number for the Life level, hence why the magic bar begins at the very edge of the screen in my test.
  • Given the previous issue with the Magic meter, the "M" might disappear due to overscan and on CRT monitors.

I tried to locate the part of the code where it loads the tables for the tile mappings, and found it at $16BD and $172E.
So, went ahead and reimplemented the tilemaps for those two in free-space, and tried separating them into proper tile maps in the AA BB XX format for each section, but i think this goes way beyond that, since the code I believe expects them to be right next to each other and with a set number of bytes, otherwise they won't be separated from each other.

Hopefully this time I will be able to replicate the mockup :)

In the meanwhile, enjoy the beta!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: darthvaderx on February 01, 2019, 12:45:22 pm
Here's the latest beta patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0


Opss, wrong patch, the rom remains unchanged.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 01, 2019, 12:48:06 pm
Opss, wrong patch, the rom remains unchanged.
Oops, I used the hacked ROM as the base and the clean ROM as the target.
Sorry ;D

Download it again from the same link, it should be the proper patch now.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 01, 2019, 02:37:39 pm
Your mock up looks really cool!  However, if you're doing what I think you're doing, you may need to extend the block of code for the magic meter and attack stat as well.

This is a quick comparison of what I could do in-game compared to what my mockup was:

                       In-game                             /                         Mockup

(https://i.imgur.com/l3yZ286.png) (https://i.imgur.com/RjZWRoy.png)


Now there are some particular problems in this:
  • The same issue with one of the meter bars moving only in an X position
  • The PPU tilemap for the life meter is tied with the Exp zeroes. This is why they always tend to show up right next to each other.
  • The PPU tilemap for the magic meter is tied with the number for the Life level, hence why the magic bar begins at the very edge of the screen in my test.
  • Given the previous issue with the Magic meter, the "M" might disappear due to overscan and on CRT monitors.

I'm assuming you'll use the screen wrap to get the attack stat on the opposite side of the screen from the magic meter?  They are connected by default, similar to the health and exp counter.  So I'll just preemptively post this, just in case that's what you are doing.  If it isn't just ignore me.  Ha ha.

Edit:  I didn't scroll far enough in your quote to see that you attempted to re-locate them and separate them.  Oops!  So again, if you found a solution already just ignore me.  :P  I will still leave this info here, in case others want to use it.

(https://i.imgur.com/caH2Ogf.png)

So with this screenshot, you have to extend the range of tiles for the attack stat and magic meter, then shift the magic meter over 1 space.  At 0x16D6, change 13 to 14, and then move the position of the magic meter from 0C to 0D.  Now being 2 spaces apart, this will allow you to get the screen wrap without the magic meter being right on the edge and be affected by overscan.  With the health meter and exp counter re-located, you should be able to extend it at its original location with no issue.  :)

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 01, 2019, 02:58:01 pm
Right as you posted I was about to post this image in-game :D

(https://i.imgur.com/4Kmp4Sn.png)

I did manage to figure it out on my own, based on the previous positions of the Life meter and your explanation of it, it went rather smooth I gotta say :)
But still, the info you shared might help others if they want to implement it too! Thanks!

The game locks-up if you have no tile with pixels at position 6D.
You can move around the "L" for the Life, as long as you have another tile with pixels in position 6D.
It looks off-center, but that's because the dash from the "-EXP-" needs to go at 6D, otherwise the game locks.

I know Trax has told me several times not to move that tile, but I just want to mess around with it and see if I can pull a full playthrough of the game this way. ;D

Also, another side effect of this, is that after the red line below the "-EXP-", every blue pixel from below the letters "EXP" tend to move to the left when walking. It's pretty minor, but I assume it has to do with the Sprite Zero synchronization Trax told me about.
I can work around this issue by making a custom font that leaves the very last row of pixels free.
Something like this 7 pixels font I made:
(https://i.imgur.com/ImgYMsW.png)

I will see if I can manage to get the "-EXP-" working somehow so it looks centered, but so far it's looking pretty damn amazing :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 01, 2019, 03:33:09 pm
Looks great for sure!  Here is a simple solution to the sprite zero.

Tile edit it!  It's what I did in Shadow of Night.  I just tested your new HUD with it (quickly recreated it), and it works.

Simply reduce sprite zero to 1 pixel.  It will still overlap with the "E" in your "-EXP-" so it works as intended, all while being hidden.  Again, I did this in Shadow of Night, and there were no negative side effects.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/o72IB0c.png)

Edit:  Just to clarify a bit on what you said, you don't necessarily need anything in position 6D.  As long as something in the HUD has collision with sprite zero it will work.  So luckily, sprite zero is positioned in such a way to be in position 6D and 6E.  I'm sure there is an X position for sprite zero, but I think it'd be risky to move it as Trax said not to.  So a simple tile edit will get the job done, without all that extra work and testing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 01, 2019, 05:53:20 pm
Looks great for sure!  Here is a simple solution to the sprite zero.

Tile edit it!  It's what I did in Shadow of Night.  I just tested your new HUD with it (quickly recreated it), and it works.

Simply reduce sprite zero to 1 pixel.  It will still overlap with the "E" in your "-EXP-" so it works as intended, all while being hidden.  Again, I did this in Shadow of Night, and there were no negative side effects.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/o72IB0c.png)

Edit:  Just to clarify a bit on what you said, you don't necessarily need anything in position 6D.  As long as something in the HUD has collision with sprite zero it will work.  So luckily, sprite zero is positioned in such a way to be in position 6D and 6E.  I'm sure there is an X position for sprite zero, but I think it'd be risky to move it as Trax said not to.  So a simple tile edit will get the job done, without all that extra work and testing.

Oh neat!
I didn't know the Sprite zero thing had its own tile ID, I couldn't even see it because it kinda meshed with the "5" :P
I already changed it to one pixel, and seems to work fine!

As for your edit, you are correct.
As long as the pixel itself has collision with another pixel from another tile, it should work fine.
I can move the "-EXP-" to 6E just fine if I replace the dash "-" with some other tile that has a pixel colliding with the Zero sprite. Interesting stuff indeed.

Here's the latest beta yet again with the latest changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0


I will try and see if I can still center the "-EXP-" by one tile to the right, if not, I might leave it like that.
It doesn't hurt at all like it is, and doesn't look bad if we compare it to how horrible the original HUD was. xD

(https://i.imgur.com/FVG3PkI.png) (https://i.imgur.com/DpZU8Sx.png)

This is getting close to completion!
As it is, it can be released right now.

However, I do want to hold off to see if I can somehow add the "PAUSE" message on the overworld.
The simple letters might do, just to make sure the player can have some visual feedback when the game is paused in the overworld.
I will also attempt to replicate the Pause Pane menu from Shadow of Night, but that is not priority, just for shits and giggles if I can. :P

Here's a comparison for those curious:
Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/BYEB2DY.png) (https://extralifereviews.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/zelda-ii-magic-menu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/4GZoTb4.png) (https://extralifereviews.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/zelda-ii-level-up.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 01, 2019, 07:56:17 pm
If you do plan to re-create the inventory screen from Shadow of Night, you'd be able to free up the gfx tile that uses the "x" for lives, keys, and crystals.  Then you could possibly design a fancy symmetrical border (instead of just using a "-") that could surround the "EXP" and "LEVEL" in the HUD, while retaining collision with the zero sprite.  Oh, and it could be centered as you wanted.

I whipped up some examples just for fun, haha.  Hope you don't mind!  There's so much you could do to cover up the zero sprite, while making it look nice and clean.  Of course if you plan to keep the "-" tile, still looks good that way.  Just a thought...   :)

(https://i.imgur.com/MCkuFAF.png)

About the pause display, I can look into it.  Back in the day, JaSp created something similar in his SMB3 hack.  At the time, he was helping me implement that into a Zelda II hack I was working on.  If I can find it, I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 05, 2019, 06:03:47 pm
Thanks for the idea, IcePenguin!
I managed to make some workaround for it, and made a couple of triangles which point to each other (first image is where you can see it as it is right now, the second and third image were captured before I changed the tile mapping :P)

Managed to revamp the whole Pause panes, both for the Spell menu and the Level Up menu, now they look really nice :)
I also went ahead and covered some points Trax made a while back about some spells consuming odd numbers for magic, now they should all consume amounts in multiples of 4. (4, 8, 12, 16, 20, etc).

Some screenshots:
(https://i.imgur.com/PvInDG6.png) (https://i.imgur.com/TqE1QC7.png) (https://i.imgur.com/6ndIQ2N.png)

Here's the latest patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0



So what's left?

As always, let me know if there is something odd!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 05, 2019, 07:06:18 pm
One thing I noticed in your latest update is the shield icon (life) in the file select menu is different than the one in the game.  Didn't notice that in previous builds.  Is this intended?  Seems odd, but it's not a big deal.

Also, I have one major recommendation for your hack.  It's simple enough to change, but it makes a huge difference.  Increase the speed of the sword beam and fire spell.  They share the same data for speed, so you'd have to increase both - which is great thing.

The data for this is at 0x1829.

20 E0

20 is the right-directional speed, and E0 is the left-directional speed.  I suggest changing it to 30 D0.  It'll move much faster, and as a result travel a bit farther.  A much desired improvement, I believe.  :)

Also, live the new triangle tile for the "-" in the HUD.  Fits well!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on February 05, 2019, 07:36:37 pm
Great work! I noticed in the second two screenshots that the arrows surrounding EXP and LEVEL both point to the right. Not sure if that matters. Edit: Oh I see IcePenguin has spotted it too!

As for the cursor on the file select screen, I looked at the code in that area, and it looks like you'd need to jsr to free space if the up button is detected and copy the existing section of code into the free space but tweak it so that it moves the cursor up. I say this because the code to move it down contains instructions for skipping inactive files, wrapping back to the top after the elimination mode option, etc. It's all for the downward direction. With the space limitations, it's easier to add separate code for up than to add additional branching paths to the existing code. Imho, it's more effort than it's worth, but maybe someone could find a different approach...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 06, 2019, 11:10:09 am
One thing I noticed in your latest update is the shield icon (life) in the file select menu is different than the one in the game.  Didn't notice that in previous builds.  Is this intended?  Seems odd, but it's not a big deal.

Also, I have one major recommendation for your hack.  It's simple enough to change, but it makes a huge difference.  Increase the speed of the sword beam and fire spell.  They share the same data for speed, so you'd have to increase both - which is great thing.

The data for this is at 0x1829.

20 E0

20 is the right-directional speed, and E0 is the left-directional speed.  I suggest changing it to 30 D0.  It'll move much faster, and as a result travel a bit farther.  A much desired improvement, I believe.  :)

Also, like the new triangle tile for the "-" in the HUD.  Fits well!

Oh you're correct.
I forgot to copy the new shield graphic to all banks.
Just did that, the new graphic should now appear in all banks.

Also, thanks for that tip!
I really didn't even think about that one. I made the change already :P
Thanks for that!

Great work! I noticed in the second two screenshots that the arrows surrounding EXP and LEVEL both point to the right. Not sure if that matters. Edit: Oh I see IcePenguin has spotted it too!

As for the cursor on the file select screen, I looked at the code in that area, and it looks like you'd need to jsr to free space if the up button is detected and copy the existing section of code into the free space but tweak it so that it moves the cursor up. I say this because the code to move it down contains instructions for skipping inactive files, wrapping back to the top after the elimination mode option, etc. It's all for the downward direction. With the space limitations, it's easier to add separate code for up than to add additional branching paths to the existing code. Imho, it's more effort than it's worth, but maybe someone could find a different approach...

Oh that is just because I took the 2nd and 3rd pic before I made the appropriate change for the arrows.
If you check the 1st image (in Zelda's Chamber) you will notice the two arrows are pointing correctly, I just forgot to take new pics for the new menus with the fixed arrows :P

I did try to kind of JSR to free space (there's quite a bunch of unused space at 0x17DB1, or $BDA1), but couldn't really make up how to make the branches work properly once the jump is done, I got confused there.
I will try to leave the code as it is for both the Select and the DOWN button, but for UP I'll have to implement new code. I will try again to see if I can somehow make it work in free space, I just need to figure out where to put the JSR and how to handle the branches within the existing code in the new range.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It will require quite some ASM to get it working for the UP button for both the File Selection screen (0x17313) and the Register Your Name screen (0x176BC) too. I still have yet to figure out how to make UP/DOWN to register as inputs in the Game Over screen, even if I change the 29 30 to 29 3C at 0x1CA95, it still only registers Select as the only input to change the cursor.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Out of that, I found something that could help towards making a PAUSE message appear on the OW.
It seems like there is a certain byte in memory that defines whether you are in Sidescroll or Overworld mode.
This byte is located at RAM address $0736, and seems like $0737 is a mirror of it (?).
If it's set to $0B, then the game is in Sidescrolling mode, and it seems like $05 is the value for the Overworld mode.
I think part of the code involved on checking this is between 0x1DDD and 0x1FCC, at least from what I've seen, I could be wrong :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 07, 2019, 03:20:30 am
This is unrelated to anything you had planned, but I made a little hack that addresses a common complaint about Zelda II - Losing all your exp when you get game over.  This hack will keep your current exp if you game over, and you choose the "continue" option.  However, if you choose the "save" option, it will wipe any exp you may have.  Works similar to the restart in palace hack.

Info you'll want to know beforehand:
1. In RAM, the player's current exp is at $775 and $776.
2. In RAM, the gained exp counter is at $755 and $756.  Gained exp is loaded here first, then added to your current exp.
3. In RAM, the position of the cursor in the game over screen is at $488.  00 is positioned on "continue" and 01 is positioned on "save".
4. The game wipes your exp at 2 different times.  Exact moment of game over, and when you choose "continue" in the game over screen.


With that knowledge, here is the hack:


At 0x1CA6D you have the following data:

A9 00 8D 75 07 8D 76 07

This bit of data wipes your current exp the exact moment you get a game over.  It loads the immediate value of 00 into the high and low byte for current exp, thus reducing it to zero.  So our first step is to change this.  Let's change it so it loads that 00 into the gained exp counter instead.  So change the code to:

A9 00 8D 55 07 8D 56 07

Next, let's go to address 0x1CAC7 to find the following data:

AD 88 04 F0 08 A9 40 8D B0 07 4C 05 CF 8D 75 07 8D 76 07 8D 56 07 8D 55 07

The first 5 bytes is checking RAM address $488 - the position of the cursor in the game over screen.  If it's equal to 0, it branches to the code in bold at 0x1CAD3, which is the code to wipe exp when choosing the "continue" option.  If it's not equal, it goes to the underlined code at 0x1CACC, which is for choosing the "save" option.

So what we wanna do is change how far it branches if the cursor position is on the "continue" option.  At 0x1CACB you'll find 08.  If the cursor is on "continue", it will branch ahead 08 bytes, skipping over the length of the underlined code.  Change this value to 14.

At 0x1CAC7 paste the following code:

AD 88 04 F0 14 A9 00 8D 75 07 8D 76 07 EA EA EA EA A9 40 8D B0 07 4C 05 CF

With this, it branches ahead 14 bytes, to the data in bold CF.  The data after this is related to how "continue" option works, but it's not relevant now.  The new underlined code will now wipe your exp when you choose the "save" option.  And selecting "continue" won't wipe it anymore.

Anyway, that's it.  Feel free to use this, or anyone else who is interested.  :)



February 07, 2019, 05:31:10 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
As an extension to that hack, here is an another way to do it. 

This way works the same, but in addition, when you get a game over and choose the "continue" option, you will always start on the screen you died on - be it on the world map, caves, towns, dungeons.

I know you have the "restart in palace" hack, but this could be an alternative to that, being able to continue on the screen you died on.  (even boss rooms!)  Plus, you wouldn't have to go all the way back to Zelda's Palace if you died in a cave somewhere.  :P

At 0x1CA6D paste the following code: (this is explained above)

A9 00 8D 55 07 8D 56 07

Next, at 0x1CAC7 paste the following code:

AD 88 04 F0 10 A9 00 8D 75 07 8D 76 07 A9 40 8D B0 07 4C 05 CF A9 03 8D 00 07 20 30 CF C9 0F F0 07 A9 06 A0 01 4C F0 CA 20 58 C3 EA EA A9 00

This difference here is the code in bold.  Your current exp is still saved, but now when you choose "continue" it will set your lives to 03 (with A9 03 8D 00 07), without resetting your location.  Resetting lives was needed, because without it, your lives would just keep counting down to 0, then to FF and so on.

With A9 06 (the part that is underlined), it prevents the game state from resetting your location.  I'm not sure on how to explain this part, ha ha.  You'll basically remain where you are in the world without it sending you back to Zelda's Palace.

I tested all this up though palace 1, and it worked fine.  More thorough testing could be done, but I believe it works with no issues.

Video:
https://youtu.be/-eYl_p-g_Uc

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 07, 2019, 01:38:23 pm
Oh nice, IcePenguin!
So basically this allows for:
Am I correct?

If that's so, not to sound rude nor ungrateful, but I have a little shadow of a doubt about implementing it.
I still want players to get somewhat punished for getting a Game Over, and starting at the very screen they died in after a full Game Over seems like quite a push on the easier side (not a life-loss, for a single life spawning on the same screen is acceptable). Same for the experience loss after Game Over. I feel like the restart at the beginning of the palace is a good balance between making it just the right amount of difficulty.

Only thing about the Experience loss is that if it's applied only during a Game Over, it's fine, as long as they maintain the experience only after a life loss, not a Game Over. :P


Still though, if I get feedback towards it, I might change my mind and actually implement it.

But know what?
I think at the moment I will have this hack as an Optional patch for those that want an easier time on Zelda II for sure. So this will still get implemented, but not obligatory for those that still want a challenge :)

I really appreciate all of your help, IcePenguin! And from all of those that have been involved during the development of this hack. Time is nigh, we are almost there for a full release! :D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 07, 2019, 01:41:49 pm
I agree with ShadowOne333 that a penalty for loss of life is important, especially since restarting in palaces was implemented. Based on my last playthrough of this hack, I found myself hitting max levels before the end with very little grinding so I would be weary about anything that would cause experience to accumulate at a faster rate still.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 07, 2019, 02:56:43 pm
Would it be possible to have a middle ground, like losing half your EXP if you game over? That could be a nice compromise.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on February 07, 2019, 05:11:01 pm
I really hate losing XP as a penalty.
I find it extremely annoying and almost as bad as loosing a save file.
In fact it's one of the things that has always turned me off to Zelda II.

I don't mind having to start at the first screen of the Palace, that's not unlike some later games in the series, but an XP loss on top would really chap my a$$.

So if it is in as an optional patch, I will definitely use it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 07, 2019, 05:31:02 pm
If that's so, not to sound rude nor ungrateful, but I have a little shadow of a doubt about implementing it.
I still want players to get somewhat punished for getting a Game Over, and starting at the very screen they died in after a full Game Over seems like quite a push on the easier side (not a life-loss, for a single life spawning on the same screen is acceptable). Same for the experience loss after Game Over. I feel like the restart at the beginning of the palace is a good balance between making it just the right amount of difficulty.

Hey no worries!  :)  Something like that would be good as an option since I'm sure there would be plenty of people who'd like to keep their exp.  (like Vanya!  lol)  It is also good to have some penalty, and I actually prefer more challenge myself, ha ha.  It's just that over the years, I've heard people mention taking issue with that, and wondered if it'd be possible to do anything about it.  I supposed I could make an ips patch with those changes, but if you did, then I wouldn't have to!   :laugh:

Also, just to be clear, I love the balance of the restart in palace hack.  njosro did good with that one.   :thumbsup:

Would it be possible to have a middle ground, like losing half your EXP if you game over? That could be a nice compromise.

It'd be easy to have an decremented exp penalty upon game over, since the game can already reduce the exp from touching certain enemies.  Upon game over, simply load a value into the RAM address $5E8, which subtracts from the current exp.  Since it's single byte value, up to FF or 255 exp penalty.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 07, 2019, 05:56:59 pm
As promised, here are the optional patches in the meanwhile, they will be packaged alongside the main hack once it's out :)
They should be compatible with a Zelda 2 Redux patched ROM, so it doesn't matter if you already have your ROM patch, applying any of these two over it should work nicely :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 07, 2019, 06:55:19 pm
Very speedy!  One thing I didn't test with my restart in room hack, is if njosro's restart in palace hack conflicts with it.  If mine is patched over that, is still works fine?

Also, I have yet another suggestion.   :laugh:  It's a simple one, though, but makes a casting magic a little less... tedious?

By default, you have to open the inventory menu every time you want to cast a spell.  Even if the spell you want to cast is already selected!  One spell in particular, that this is quite troublesome, is the life spell.  When you are low on health, you'd have to:  Pause > Heal > Pause > Heal, etc.  Even when entering a new screen, you'd have to open the menu again, just to cast a spell.

At 0xDE4, change F0 to E0.

This will allow you to cast your selected spell repeatedly, without having to pause it every time.  You'll just need to be aware of the spell you have selected, so you don't waste magic casting stuff like shield twice, ha ha.

I used this in Shadow of Night, and it worked with no issues.



February 08, 2019, 02:15:11 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

I looked into the pausing display for the world map, and found a solution.  It doesn't add a text display, but it changes the palette to black and white, when you pause.  (I linked a video below, so you can see it)  I hope you still have some free space to use.   :P

First, let's go to 0x2277.  You'll find the following code:

EE 24 05 60

This increments the status of the pause menu at RAM address $524.  For the world map, it is set to 02.  Let's go to some empty space so we can enter our new code.  Let's do a jump.  Change it to:

4C B0 A8 60

At 0x28C0 paste the following code:

EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 19 8D FE 00 60

Notice how we still keep the increment for the pause status (EE 24 05).  Plus, we are gonna do a branch by checking the status at RAM address $727.  00 is for world map, 01 is for side scroll areas.  If it is equal to 01, nothing happens and it returns from subroutine.  If it is equal to 00, it changes the palette of the world map.  (to put it simply)  At RAM address $FE, changing this value to 19 makes everything black and white.

Next, let's go to 0x2348.  There you'll find:

A9 00 8D 4C 07 8D 25 05 8D 24 05 8D 67 05 60

This is part of the code for un-pausing the game.  We are gonna relocate this code to some empty space so we can add onto it.  Let's do another jump!   Change it to:

4C D0 A8 EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA 60

At 0x28E0, paste the following code:

A9 00 8D 4C 07 8D 25 05 8D 24 05 8D 67 05 A9 18 8D FE 00 60

With this, we just added a bit of code at the end (A9 18 8D FE 00) to revert the palette back to normal when he game is un-paused.  Posted a video to show it in action.  If you don't like the black and white effect, I suppose you could use this hack as a base for implementing a text display.  Up to you!  :)

Hope you like it!

Video:
https://youtu.be/b5JgZJnPbWI


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: TheZunar123 on February 08, 2019, 11:27:32 am
Oooh, I like that ^

Reminds me of that section in Wind Waker where everything is frozen in black and white, then turns to color after getting the Master Sword.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 08, 2019, 12:51:08 pm
Oh wow that's a really nice!
Gotta say that such idea is amazing, and it could really help to differentiate between Pause and non-Pause in the Overworld. Also, that code could help to make a jump or branch to a text parsing routine for the letters down the line, perhaps :P

I already implemented it, but for some reason I do not get the same grey colours you are getting.
I am getting some really vibrant white instead of the more toned down grey shades you get in the video.

You can see a comparison here:
(https://i.imgur.com/LQgtPjP.png) (https://i.imgur.com/3WrIswE.png)

I even tried to make a quick test by changing RAM address $FE from $18 to $19 in a clean ROM, and I get the exact same result.
What could be the reason I get those colours instead of the greys?
I would like it to have the same shades of grey instead of the vibrant white, like in the vid.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 08, 2019, 01:42:37 pm
I already implemented it, but for some reason I do not get the same grey colours you are getting.
I am getting some really vibrant white instead of the more toned down grey shades you get in the video.

Hmm, that's interesting.  Perhaps it's an emulator thing.  Which emulator do you use for testing?  I can look into an alternate solution, that won't have such a differing result. 

Also, I didn't explain this in the last post, but RAM address $FE acts as sort of a filter for the entire game.  Think of Pokemon Red and Blue.  One has a red tint, and one has a blue tint.  In the case of Zelda II, 18 is the default.  38 = red tint.  58 = green tint.  78 = orange tint.  98 = blue tint, etc...  For testing, change these to 19, 39, 59, 79, or 99, to easily see the difference between them.  This affects the entire game, not just the world map.


Oh, and I have some "constructive" criticism for your grass animations on the world map.  When animating with such few pixels, it is good to not have more, or less, quantity of certain pixels, to avoid a "flashing" effect.  While subtle, your grass does have this because the last 2 frames use less pixels than the first two, making the lighter color more dominant.  It may go unnoticed, but for me it is quite noticeable.  Honestly, this is such a minor detail. 

I whipped up an animation that alternates between which blades of grass move, but still keeping an equal number of pixels, to avoid any "flashing" effect.  The alternating blades of grass also gives it a bit more fluidity.  You may be happy with your current animation, and that's totally cool, but I just wanted to give some feedback on that.  ;)  In the screenshot, the top row is your animation, and the bottom row is my example:

(https://i.imgur.com/HGeAxpZ.png)


Oooh, I like that ^

Reminds me of that section in Wind Waker where everything is frozen in black and white, then turns to color after getting the Master Sword.

Oh yeah!  That's one of my favorite moments in all of Zelda!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 08, 2019, 02:56:43 pm
I'm using FCEUX 2.2.3 for Linux. :)
I do get a strong white colour, but I think I found a nice workaround for this.

Maybe I can go for either B8 or F8 instead of 19.
It might not be the desired effect, but it can work.
By changing it to either B8 or F8 (I think F8 looks the best), it creates some sort of darkened image of the original palette, and this can work as a way to tell the player that the screen is paused, instead of the grey one (since it looks too bright in my tests).

What emu are you using?
Also, just edited the grass with the animation you suggested :)
Looks quite good! I'll leave it like that.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 08, 2019, 03:50:06 pm
I'm using FCEUX 2.2.3 for Linux. :)
I do get a strong white colour, but I think I found a nice workaround for this.

Maybe I can go for either B8 or F8 instead of 19.
It might not be the desired effect, but it can work.
By changing it to either B8 or F8 (I think F8 looks the best), it creates some sort of darkened image of the original palette, and this can work as a way to tell the player that the screen is paused, instead of the grey one (since it looks too bright in my tests).

What emu are you using?
Also, just edited the grass with the animation you suggested :)
Looks quite good! I'll leave it like that.

Tried out the B8 and F8.  F8 is the same as 18, do you mean D8?  I think B8 looks the best since everything is slightly darkened.  With D8, most things become darker, but the grass stays the same.

Well, here is another way you can do it.  With this, the screen will turn all black when you pause the game, instead of black and white.  It uses the RAM address $726, which is used for making the screen turn black when transitioning from world map to side scrolling.

Looking back on the code I posted before, make the following changes.

At 0x28C0 paste the following code:

EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 19 8D FE 00 60

Instead of A9 19 8D FE 00, enter A9 01 8D 26 07 instead.  Same for the last part, too.

At 0x28E0, paste the following code:

A9 00 8D 4C 07 8D 25 05 8D 24 05 8D 67 05 A9 18 8D FE 00 60

Instead of A9 18 8D FE 00, enter A9 00 8D 26 07 instead.  This will turn the screen black when you pause.  Might be a more desired result instead of the bright white - at least until we can find a way to make the grey work consistently, or something.  Which I hope there is a solution, cause I quite liked the grey.  I think the black screen is pretty good, too, though.  :)

I used Jnes for testing and recording that video.  Just downloaded your emulator, and I had the same result you did.  So it must be something to do with the emulators render the graphics.

Also, I'm glad you like the grass!

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 08, 2019, 05:40:20 pm
Oh my, that black screen is nerve wrecking. :laugh:
It makes me think the game crashed or something haha.
Seeing the full screen go all-black is sure a nice touch, although I feel as if B8/D8/F8 still look better to give a darkened look for a pause screen.

F8 is quite dark compared to 18, maybe it's the differences in emulator screwing us yet again :P
I will keep this hack on the backlog for sure, but at the moment I'll keep the pause with B8, that one should work nice while we figure out how to parse text on-screen with it. :D

Many, many thanks, IcePenguin!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 08, 2019, 06:09:20 pm
The F8 value works now.  I just made a dumb mistake when I went to test it earlier, ha ha.  It is quite dark!  Think it works well.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find that "pause" display hack JaSp did many years ago.  It might be on my old computer like all my old hacking stuff.  (its in storage  :()  Anyway, glad to help!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 08, 2019, 08:39:03 pm
The F8 value works now.  I just made a dumb mistake when I went to test it earlier, ha ha.  It is quite dark!  Think it works well.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find that "pause" display hack JaSp did many years ago.  It might be on my old computer like all my old hacking stuff.  (its in storage  :()  Anyway, glad to help!   :thumbsup:
Ah glad you liked it!
Using F8 does look nice :)
I'll use that one in the meanwhile.

Hope you can find those old notes somewhere, and if not, I know there can be a way to do so, I just need to study the code a bit for the sidescroll pause to rework it for letters :p

I have updated the IPS for download, it's in the same link as always if you want to try it out with the latest changes :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 08, 2019, 08:50:01 pm
Does this count?   :laugh:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/3VBArjR.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 08, 2019, 08:51:10 pm
Does this count?   :laugh:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/3VBArjR.png)
Haha indeed!
The Adventure of Pause! ;D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 09, 2019, 01:03:21 am
If you want to draw on screen, your best bet is to use the game's mechanisms for writing to the PPU. What I call "PPU Macros" are sequences of bytes written in RAM $302, $363 or $3A4. The data model is:

AAAA NN DD ... FF

AAAA = PPU Address
NN = Number of bytes to process
DD = The data itself
FF = End byte (I think you can chain more than one command)

In the case of the "PAUSE" drawing, NN would be 05, followed by the 5 bytes for the text tiles. Then, you have to find where exactly you want to print those tiles, in the correct name table offset, which is the AAAA part of the macro. This one likely involves some convoluted arithmetic, because of the scrolling and whatnot. RAM addresses $79-$7A are used to draw the Overworld tiles, so they may come handy.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 09, 2019, 03:36:16 am
So, I had this idea...  The final boss of Zelda II is Shadow Link, right?  So why not make him subtly more relevant (what? ::)) during the game?  This was just a silly thought at first, but it turned out pretty cool, haha.  All I did was add an extra visual cue for when you pause the game.  Link cannot escape his shadow!

Pausing gif:
Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/kgjvFb8.gif)

If you wanna use it, just change the following code from my previous post:

At 0x28C0 paste the following code:

EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 19 8D FE 00 60

Paste this code instead:

EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 AD 02 02 F0 06 A9 41 8D 02 02 60 A9 01 8D 02 02 60

Basically it adds another branch, checking the direction that Link is facing using the sprite priority, and then changing his palette black.  It has to do this check, so he faces the correct direction when pausing.


If you want to draw on screen, your best bet is to use the game's mechanisms for writing to the PPU. What I call "PPU Macros" are sequences of bytes written in RAM $302, $363 or $3A4. The data model is:

AAAA NN DD ... FF

AAAA = PPU Address
NN = Number of bytes to process
DD = The data itself
FF = End byte (I think you can chain more than one command)

In the case of the "PAUSE" drawing, NN would be 05, followed by the 5 bytes for the text tiles. Then, you have to find where exactly you want to print those tiles, in the correct name table offset, which is the AAAA part of the macro. This one likely involves some convoluted arithmetic, because of the scrolling and whatnot. RAM addresses $79-$7A are used to draw the Overworld tiles, so they may come handy.

Hmm, interesting.  Thanks for the info Trax!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on February 09, 2019, 04:56:36 am
So, I had this idea...  The final boss of Zelda II is Shadow Link, right?  So why not make him subtly more relevant (what? ::)) during the game?  This was just a silly thought at first, but it turned out pretty cool, haha.  All I did was add an extra visual cue for when you pause the game.  Link cannot escape his shadow!

Pausing gif:
Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/kgjvFb8.gif)

If you wanna use it, just change the following code from my previous post:

Paste this code instead:

EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 AD 02 02 F0 06 A9 41 8D 02 02 60 A9 01 8D 02 02 60

Basically it adds another branch, checking the direction that Link is facing using the sprite priority, and then changing his palette black.  It has to do this check, so he faces the correct direction when pausing.

That was the best one yet Ice Penguin. I think I even want to use that one.

I like all the ideas being shared back and forth.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DannyPlaysSomeGames on February 09, 2019, 10:18:02 am
This is pretty rad. Graphics are a nice revamp and the whole feel of it is really nice, yet it does stay somewhat faithful to the original game. The only issue so far is that there's a redundancy:
(https://i.imgur.com/J2wHJwS.png)

Town Town is my favorite Zelda town

Still though, great work!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on February 09, 2019, 11:38:48 am
IcePenguin, that's a creative alternative to PAUSE text! Nice idea.

For gameover stuff, I'm glad restarting from the palace is a good balance. One alternative I had right after I made that hack was to make it cost EXP at the gameover screen to continue exactly where you were, and if you didn't have enough points you could only save. It would read your highest stat, and lookup the point requirements for LIFE at that level. For example, if your highest stat was at level 4 (let's say attack for example), it would cost you 400 points to continue because that's how much is required to bring LIFE to level 4. By the time something was leveled up to 8, it would cost 4000 points to continue.

In the end, I decided it was a complicated system and dropped it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on February 09, 2019, 01:41:03 pm
IcePenguin, that's a creative alternative to PAUSE text! Nice idea.

For gameover stuff, I'm glad restarting from the palace is a good balance. One alternative I had right after I made that hack was to make it cost EXP at the gameover screen to continue exactly where you were, and if you didn't have enough points you could only save. It would read your highest stat, and lookup the point requirements for LIFE at that level. For example, if your highest stat was at level 4 (let's say attack for example), it would cost you 400 points to continue because that's how much is required to bring LIFE to level 4. By the time something was leveled up to 8, it would cost 4000 points to continue.

In the end, I decided it was a complicated system and dropped it.

That would have been a pretty cool system to use had you been able to work all the kinks out.

The most challenging thing I've come across even with Trax's disassembly and Optomon's notes is how to change the music. Why did Nintendo have to use such a complicated format? LOL!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DannyPlaysSomeGames on February 09, 2019, 02:05:55 pm
Actually, I ran into another bug: if you save from the overworld via Up+A on the pause menu, the screen doesn't undim until you pause again in the overworld, which is a bit annoying. It's nothing game breaking really, but it's still a bit of an issue.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 09, 2019, 03:00:08 pm
IcePenguin, that's a creative alternative to PAUSE text! Nice idea.

For gameover stuff, I'm glad restarting from the palace is a good balance. One alternative I had right after I made that hack was to make it cost EXP at the gameover screen to continue exactly where you were, and if you didn't have enough points you could only save. It would read your highest stat, and lookup the point requirements for LIFE at that level. For example, if your highest stat was at level 4 (let's say attack for example), it would cost you 400 points to continue because that's how much is required to bring LIFE to level 4. By the time something was leveled up to 8, it would cost 4000 points to continue.

In the end, I decided it was a complicated system and dropped it.

Thanks njosro!  I'm just glad ShadowOne liked it, since it's up to him, ha ha.   :laugh:  I'm sure he'll figure out the "pause" text, but if worse comes to worse, the palette change it a suitable alternative.  The visual cue is great enough to know it's paused.  (I hope he likes Link's Shadow effect, as well!)

Your idea about spending exp to continue is very interesting!  It does seem really complicated, as you said, but it would make for some really intense game play!  Dying while try to get those high levels would become very nerve-wracking!

Actually, I ran into another bug: if you save from the overworld via Up+A on the pause menu, the screen doesn't undim until you pause again in the overworld, which is a bit annoying. It's nothing game breaking really, but it's still a bit of an issue.

Ah, I didn't consider that.  I did all the testing on a clean rom, so I didn't remember ShadowOne had implemented that save feature.  Good thing that'll be easy enough to fix.  He will just have to add a bit of code (A9 18 8D FE 00) to the moment UP+A is pressed to save the game.  Thanks for reporting that.   :)

Edit:
Actually, ShadowOne, the moment you press UP+A, you'd have to do a branch, to check if Link is on the world map or side-scrolling area using RAM address $727.  00 = world map, 01 = side scroll area.  So the code would look something like this:

AD 27 07 F0 XX (1st save code here) FF A9 18 8D FE 00 (2nd save code here) FF

If Link is on the world map (00), it will skip over the "1st save code" and reset the palette to normal while opening the save menu with the "2nd save code".  If Link is in a side scroll area (01), it will use the "1s save code" and only open the save menu.  XX = the length of bytes to branch over the 1st save code.  Hopefully I explained that easily enough.   :-\


Also, I wanna report a "bug" as well.  Currently the scrolling health tile and magic tile in the HUD is set to 09 x-position.  When you run out of magic, it still appears to have a sliver of magic left.  You should position the magic tile to 08 x-position.  The health bar is fine, since the tile is covered by the new heart gfx.   However, on a normal health bar it would similarly have this same problem.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 09, 2019, 09:55:47 pm
Technical notes on the color changes used for the Pause, which is a cool idea, by the way. RAM address $FE is used to modify Register $2001, which controls how the PPU displays things. Bit 0 sets everything to black and white, effectively replacing every color (background and sprites) with color codes 00, 10, 20 or 30. Bits 5-6-7 create an emphasis on the red, green and blue channels, respectively. Mixing bits 5-6-7 with bit 0 set to 1 will effectively produce different variations of black and white. Make sure you don't touch the other bits as they are crucial to how the image is displayed. Check this page for all the details: https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/PPU_registers

As for the "PAUSE" string, I think using sprites would be easier than using background tiles. There's only 5 letters, so it would be okay, unless there are already other sprites on the same scanline. That would produce flicker or tiles that don't display at all.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 10, 2019, 03:30:52 am
Behold!

Pause display on world map:
(https://i.imgur.com/pXOMDRQ.gif)


Finally got it.  Thank you Trax for the good info, helped me in figuring this out.  :)

First thing you'll want to do is make some new tiles for the "PAUSE!" letters.  I added an exclamation so it's centered above Link.  Here is a screenshot showing where the tiles should go:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/1DQ8qEB.png)

Next, here is the code.

This a new version of the hack, so remove the old one first!

I had to slightly modify the location of the jumps, because I didn't realize the Flute uses the pause mechanic, as well.  So the jump is now located to where it only affects the pausing, and not the flute and pausing both.  (the previous hack did affect the flute, but we just didn't realize it)  I also cleaned the code a bit, so it uses space more efficiently.

At 0x2273, you will find the following code:

C5 00 F0 03 EE 24 05 60

Replace it with:

4C 50 AA EA EE 24 05 60

At 0x2A60, paste this code:

C5 00 F0 03 EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 40 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 02 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 40 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 02 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 40 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 02 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 40 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 02 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 40 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 02 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 40 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 02 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 AD 24 05 D0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

The big chunk of code is where the "PAUSE!" text is drawn.  In RAM, the section starting at address $200 is where all the sprites are loaded, with 4 bytes each.  They are structured like this:

AA BB CC DD

AA is the Y position.  BB is the tiles used.  CC is the palette.  DD is the X position.  So with this, the big chuck of code is loading all necessary info to draw the word "PAUSE!".  It's starts just after the section where the game draws the right black border on the world map - At RAM address $244.

Actually, I ran into another bug: if you save from the overworld via Up+A on the pause menu, the screen doesn't undim until you pause again in the overworld, which is a bit annoying. It's nothing game breaking really, but it's still a bit of an issue.

Just a reminder, ShadowOne, you'll still want to fix this bug that Danny reported.  It should be quite easy to do, and I explained a possible solution in my last post.  :)

Anyway, I hope you like it!


Technical notes on the color changes used for the Pause, which is a cool idea, by the way. RAM address $FE is used to modify Register $2001, which controls how the PPU displays things. Bit 0 sets everything to black and white, effectively replacing every color (background and sprites) with color codes 00, 10, 20 or 30. Bits 5-6-7 create an emphasis on the red, green and blue channels, respectively. Mixing bits 5-6-7 with bit 0 set to 1 will effectively produce different variations of black and white. Make sure you don't touch the other bits as they are crucial to how the image is displayed. Check this page for all the details: https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/PPU_registers

As for the "PAUSE" string, I think using sprites would be easier than using background tiles. There's only 5 letters, so it would be okay, unless there are already other sprites on the same scanline. That would produce flicker or tiles that don't display at all.

Thanks for the technical info, Trax!  That's something I'm just not good at doing, ha ha.  Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing half the time.   :laugh:  It helps to know what $FE is really up to!  :)



February 10, 2019, 06:50:17 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

I made another little hack that displays the extra lives correctly in the inventory menu.  I always wondered why the black screen that shows your name, Link, and current lives always displayed lives in decimal, but then the inventory screen showed them in hexadecimal.  Displaying zero lives just makes no sense, ha ha.  :P

At 0x2173 you find the following code:

AD 00 07

Replace it with a jsr:

20 B0 A8

Next, go to 0x28c0 and paste the following code:  (or to any free space)

EE 00 07 AD 00 07 CE 00 07 60

Now there is probably a better way to do this, but this works perfectly fine.  It increments the value of the extra life counter by one, displaying the correct number.  The decrement just cancels it out, preventing it from actually increasing.  The result is a constant, accurate display of how many lives you have remaining.  Just to clarify, it's not actually changing your number of lives.

Again, the lives remaining screen already displays an accurate number, so I think the inventory menu should, as well.   :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Jeville on February 10, 2019, 02:40:29 pm
I don't know if any changes are made to the Link doll, but the idea that was brought up before is to make them give a permanent increase to starting lives. The 1-up from leveling should be left temporary as is.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 10, 2019, 09:10:08 pm
Nice work on the PAUSE string, IcePenguin, but that code could use a loop! Anyway, if it works, it's not a big deal. As long as unused space is plenty.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 11, 2019, 03:59:17 am
Nice work on the PAUSE string, IcePenguin, but that code could use a loop! Anyway, if it works, it's not a big deal. As long as unused space is plenty.

Thanks Trax!  I was really happy to finally get it.  I'm not too familiar with loops.  I've done them in C++, but not assembly.  I wouldn't even know how to set it up, ha ha.  :P  Perhaps I should learn to because my next hack (below) could probably benefit from having loops.

Here is my latest hack!

ShadowOne, I know you made the heart tiles for the health meter, but I decided to take it a bit further and actually make traditional Zelda hearts!  No more sliding bar.  It's not quite done, yet, but when it is I will post all the details.  If you like it, feel free to use it for your hack, or anyone else.  ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/gYQgBd1.png)

Just so you know, health will work exactly the same way.  I just changed how the game displays the health.  So shield, life levels, and all that won't be affected.

Here is a video showing the new hearts:  :)

https://youtu.be/eLt_EgASRd8

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on February 11, 2019, 07:23:38 am
I've learned that loops in asm aren't that bad as long as they're not too complicated!
I looked at your code IcePenguin. Here is a way to use a loop:

Instead of doing LDA/STA repeatedly, put in a table of values for the desired LDA values:
$2A6D: 40 89 02 70 40 8B ... etc.

Then, (assuming register X isn't being used for something else) do this:
Code: [Select]
LDX #$0
loopstart:
LDA $2A6D, X
STA $0244, X
INX
CPX number of iterations
BNE loopstart

There's a way to optimize that further by starting from the last entry and looping backwards, but it saves only 1 instruction and is a little bit confusing to keep track of (in my opinion).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 11, 2019, 12:23:25 pm
Oh wow, there was a lot of progress this weekend.

First off, let me apologize for my absence these past days.
I went through a personal problem which really got a hold of me hard to a breaking point.
It has me completely depressed and drained of all motivation at the moment, and it all happened during the weekend.

Out of that, I really want to give you guys some proper recognition, the work put into those hacks has been incredible, nothing less of amazing.
Trax, IcePenguin, njosro, all of your help has really helped to bring this hack to life in such a great way, I am really grateful for all of your help so far.

I have successfully implemented the Pause message in the Overworld thanks to all of you guys' help.

(https://i.imgur.com/l027C9D.png)

Now two things to point out:

I already implemented and addressed most of the issues, bugs and other stuff that has been brought up during these days, like the redundancy in a text, the life and magic tile changed to 08, the life counter, etc.

-------------------------------------------------

@njosro:
That loop code that Trax suggest could really save up some space for sure, I am really interested in it.
The way you wrote it seems perfect, though as you say, I am not sure if register X is free for use there.
If I made the transcription correctly, this should be the code you wrote into Hex format:
[A2 00 BD 6D 2A 9D 44 02 E8 E0 06 D0 F5]
I have my doubts about the E0 06 (CPX) and the D0 F5 (BNE). I am still not sure how branches to labels before the branch opcode are handled in Hex, and also I am not sure how many iterations should the CPX count, I assumed 6 since that's the number of tiles for "PAUSE!". Any clarification on this would be really helpful.

As for the table, I think this is how the attribute table for the "PAUSE!" message would look:

Code: [Select]
40 89 02 70
40 8B 02 78
40 8D 02 80
40 8F 02 88
40 91 02 90
40 93 02 98

Let me know if that's correct or if I missed something.


@IcePenguin:

Oh you managed to get the heart meter working without the blue overlay?
That's awesome! The reason why I kept the blue border around the hearts was to hide the Life tile moving down as you get hit. That's quite impressive. I'd be interested in knowing how you did it. Best of luck with it!

---------------------------------------------------

The updated patch is found in the same link as always, for those that want to try out the latest changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 11, 2019, 12:59:26 pm
njosro, thanks for the helpful explanation!  I'll have to do some experiments with it.  I did try to make a loop for my hearts hack, but it was complicated enough trying to them to work, ha ha.  Those things are pesky!   >:(

By the way, I finished creating the new hearts!  I ended up doing an all night-er, cause I was too focused on getting it to work.  Let's just say, I need a break, ha ha.  With this hack, the health meter has been replaced with a traditional heart gauge from the Zelda series!  Currently, it is set to half hearts, but it could be reworked into using quarter hearts.  For now, let's just stick to the easier one.  :P

NOTICE:  To anyone who wants to use this heart hack:
Feel free to use this, but keep in mind that is was intended for use with ShadowOne's Redux HUD.  You'll need to adjust some data to fit your preferences, or whatever layout you may have for your HUD.

With that out of the way, let's get started!

First thing, here is a screenshot of where the half heart tile should go.  I replaced the "L" in the life meter because the new hearts looks better without it, I think!  :)

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/JLCxzPs.png)

Next, you'll want to remove the sliding health tile since it is no longer used.  You could simply change its X position to FF and it'll go off screen, or you can remove it by modifying its code.  Up to you!

Also, you'll want to remove the "L" tile from the screen.  A simple F4 to make it invisible is what I suggest.  Next up, is the code!

At 0x17AC you'll find the following code:

AD 74 07 8D 65 05 4A 4A 4A 4A 4A 85 00 C6 00 30 09 A9 C7 99 09 03

Replace it with:

20 10 B0 EA 20 A0 B0 EA 20 00 B0 85 00 C6 00 30 09 EA EA EA EA EA

There are 3 jsr here, which all point to the new code.  There are 3 different parts, but I bunched them all together.  First part is 7 bytes, second part is 141 bytes, and the third part is 105 bytes.

At 0x3010, paste this code:

Spoiler:
AD 74 07 8D 65 05 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF A9 00 CD 74 07 D0 01 60 A9 80 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 09 03 A9 C7 99 0A 03 A9 C7 99 0B 03 A9 C7 99 0C 03 A9 80 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0D 03 A9 90 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0D 03 A9 A0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0E 03 A9 B0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0E 03 A9 C0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0F 03 A9 D0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0F 03 A9 E0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 10 03 A9 F0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 10 03 60 FF FF FF A9 00 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 09 03 A9 10 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 09 03 A9 20 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0A 03 A9 30 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0A 03 A9 40 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0B 03 A9 50 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0B 03 A9 60 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0C 03 A9 70 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0C 03 60

This code probably could've been done more efficiently, but it works!  Basically, I removed the old health meter with a bunch of NOP (EA), and made all this new code that constantly checks your current health, and then displays the necessary amount of hearts.  The first large chunk of code is for hearts 5-8, and the second chunk is for hearts 1-4.  It turned out to be more complicated than I originally thought, so the code could probably be shortened, but I found it was a good idea to separate the hearts into two parts.  It just works better than way, and is less confusing.  I dunno, I'm too tired to think about that, ha ha.

If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can.  Also, I might have missed something.  As I mentioned, I'm quite tired, so I could've forgotten to include something.  Hopefully not, and you get it working ok.  :)

About the bug you experienced with the pause display - I couldn't replicate this.  Try adding the hack to a clean rom, to see if you can get it working.  There may have been an oversight somewhere, but we'll figure it out!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 11, 2019, 03:03:58 pm
About the bug you experienced with the pause display - I couldn't replicate this.  Try adding the hack to a clean rom, to see if you can get it working.  There may have been an oversight somewhere, but we'll figure it out!

I was able to replicate it in vanilla Zelda 2 as well, copy-pasting the code you wrote.

Here's a video which shows the problem in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hhmb3zapss

(CHANGE THE VIDEO SPEED TO 0.5 TO PLAY IT NORMALLY)

In there, you can see I start walking to the right normally, and while walking right (holding D-Pad Right) I pause the screen (overlay activated). Then I unpause it and you can see Link continues to walk, but the overlay is still active.
Then I proceed to stop Link, pause-unpause the screen again to get the overlay off properly.

Hopefully that helps to explain how to recreate the bug.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 11, 2019, 03:29:46 pm
I don't know if any changes are made to the Link doll, but the idea that was brought up before is to make them give a permanent increase to starting lives. The 1-up from leveling should be left temporary as is.

Done!  I made a small hack that make extra lives a permanent upgrade.  I actually really like this idea because the life dolls are so pointless in the original game.  It gets my vote for being in Redux!  ;)  It would seriously improve the value of the life dolls.

Here's the code:

At 0x1E82A, you'll find the following code:

EE 00 07

Replace it with:

20 50 FF

Next, go to 0x1FF60 and paste this code:  (there's a bit of free space here)

EE 00 07 EE 95 07 60

Next, go to 0x1C368 to find the following code:

A9 03 8D 00 07

Replace this with:

20 A0 D3 EA EA

Finally, go to 0x1D3B0 and paste the following code:

A9 00 CD 95 07 F0 07 AD 95 07 8D 00 07 60 A9 03 8D 95 07 8D 00 07 60

For this hack we are using an unused location in memory.  RAM address $795.  This location was never utilized by the original game, so we will use it to keep track of extra lives collected.  When the game loads for the first time, it initiates this variable ($795) by setting it to 03.  Whenever you collect a life doll, it increments both the normal counter for lives at $700, and the new one we made at $795.  Then when you get a game over, the game uses the new variable to reset the counter, thus having permanent life upgrades!  :)

Great idea Jeville!


ShadowOne, that's strange indeed!  Maybe you could send me a copy of it so I can compare the two.  I will try to replicate it again and re-examine the code to see if I made a mistake somewhere.

Edit:

I did some testing with it, but I still couldn't get the glitch to happen.  Hmm...  Kinda wish it would so I could fix it, ha ha.  It could be some code with bad logic.  The newest version of the hack was slightly different, so it might have a mistake.  Anyway, if you can, PM me a link to the hack.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 11, 2019, 04:11:47 pm
These are the only changes I made to a clean ROM:

Quote
At 0x2273, you will find the following code:

C5 00 F0 03 EE 24 05 60

Replace it with:

4C 50 AA EA EE 24 05 60

At 0x2A60, paste this code:

C5 00 F0 03 EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 40 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 02 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 40 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 02 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 40 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 02 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 40 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 02 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 40 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 02 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 40 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 02 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 AD 24 05 D0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

That's all I did, and with that I could recreate it in FCEUX.
Here's an IPS patch just in case it helps as well:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jdv9bjj0b2boyu/pausetest.ips?dl=0

Should be applied to a clean Zelda 2 ROM, that should make it so that you can replicate the problem.
The way I can get it to consistently replicate it, is by walking right, hold D-Pad Right and while still holding it, press Start to pause, while STILL holding down Right on the D-Pad, then unpause with Right still being held, and you shall be able to see Link walking again, but with the overlay still applied.
In short words, just don't let go of the Right on the D-Pad, and pause/unpause at will, that should do it.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 11, 2019, 04:41:38 pm
I still couldn't get it to happen lol.   :laugh:  No worries, let's try changing some of the code.  Instead of using this:  (for the last bit of code in the big chunk)

AD 24 05 D0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

Try this:

AD EA 00 F0 06 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60 A9 18 8D FE 00 60

It's basically the same, but it's using a different indicator to determine if pause is pressed.  The branch used before was expecting a 0 or 1, but instead got an incremented value from 0 to 2.  Now it's using RAM address $EA which is 0 or 1 depending on if the game is paused.  I'm not sure if that's what was causing it, but it could be.  Let me know if the new code helps.  :)  If not, more testing shall be done!

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on February 11, 2019, 04:48:26 pm
Just want to say that the Heart Meter is awesome! Though I definitely think it needs to support 1/4 hearts to really show life totals - Even the bar in vanilla Zelda II will show you at "Empty" while still alive.

The Pause screen is great, as well!

Also I love the Extra Lives idea! Right now you want to avoid them until you're ready to tackle the Great Palace, but having them permanently increase your maximum is genius.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 11, 2019, 04:57:25 pm
I still couldn't get it to happen lol.   :laugh:  No worries, let's try changing some of the code.  Instead of using this:  (for the last bit of code in the big chunk)

AD 24 05 D0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

Try this:

AD EA 00 F0 06 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60 A9 18 8D FE 00 60

It's basically the same, but it's using a different indicator to determine if pause is pressed.  The branch used before was expecting a 0 or 1, but instead got an incremented value from 0 to 2.  Now it's using RAM address $EA which is 0 or 1 depending on if the game is paused.  I'm not sure if that's what was causing it, but it could be.  Let me know if the new code helps.  :)  If not, more testing shall be done!
I think that made it worse on my side :/
Now the screen tends to flicker randomly at times, and the dim screen works rather odd as well.

I'd recommend that you try pausing and unpausing the game consistently while walking around (it can happen while standing still too), you might hit it eventually. Just look deeply into the PAUSE message and when Link moves to know when it happens.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 11, 2019, 06:30:52 pm
I finally got the bug, but just once.  It was very exciting.  :P  Try this code instead:

Spoiler:
C5 00 F0 03 EE 24 05 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 40 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 02 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 40 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 02 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 40 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 02 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 40 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 02 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 40 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 02 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 40 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 02 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 A9 F8 8D FE 00 AD EA 00 F0 01 60 A9 18 8D FE 00 60

With this code I haven't been able to get the bug again, but doesn't really say much since I couldn't before.  I hope it fixes it...  Trying to fix what you can't see is quite difficult.  Let me know how it goes!

Just want to say that the Heart Meter is awesome! Though I definitely think it needs to support 1/4 hearts to really show life totals - Even the bar in vanilla Zelda II will show you at "Empty" while still alive.

The Pause screen is great, as well!

Also I love the Extra Lives idea! Right now you want to avoid them until you're ready to tackle the Great Palace, but having them permanently increase your maximum is genius.

It'd be totally possible to make them 1/4 hearts.  It all depends on if there is enough space for the extra gfx tiles.  There would have to be 2 extra tiles.  (4 total)  There is definitely enough free space for the code.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on February 11, 2019, 07:05:44 pm
You could get rid of the 'M' before the magic meter, yeah? OOT/MM didn't use one.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 11, 2019, 07:31:57 pm
Could you stop fiddling with the "L" tile before someone gets hurt? It is important for timing the split scrolling.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 12, 2019, 01:35:50 am
Could you stop fiddling with the "L" tile before someone gets hurt? It is important for timing the split scrolling.

I don't wanna get hurt.    :(  For the "L" tile, I realize its importance.   I even remember you telling me about it back in the day when working on Shadow of Night.  However, couldn't another tile in the HUD take the role for the timing of the split scrolling?  Is this what allows the HUD to remain stationary, right?   As long something has collision with sprite zero, everything runs as normal.  I don't fully understand, but in all my tests I've never seen anything out of the ordinary.


February 12, 2019, 04:31:07 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

I made the hearts into 1/4 hearts, as suggested by Shadic.

(https://i.imgur.com/hWVNS3U.png)

The tiles that were used for the extra hearts were the "-" and "x" so if you want to keep those, you'll have to get creative and find other tiles to replace.  I just went with these to make it simple, and honestly, the "NEXT" and "LEVEL" in the HUD don't look too bad without the "-" or triangle shape you made.  Just a thought.  :)

Anyway, here is a screenshot showing where I put the new heart tiles:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/4LB4CD7.png)

You can ignore the magic meter, I was doing some tests with it, to see if I could find a way to remove the "M" and still hide the sliding white tile.  Nothing yet...

Here is the code for the new 1/4 heart gauge.  There is a lot more code, but luckily there is plenty of free space!  :P

First, go to 0x1D4E2 and replace 65 05 with 74 07.  This is the low health beeping, so were pointing to Link's health at RAM address $774.  If you want to remove the health beeping, you could always point this to a location in RAM that is a constant FF, or just use a NOP.

Next, at 0x17AC, you will find the following code:

AD 74 07 8D 65 05 4A 4A 4A 4A 4A 85 00 C6 00 30 09 A9 C7 99 09 03 C8 4C A9 97

Replace it with:

20 00 B0 EA 20 00 B1 EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA

This time there are only 2 jsr.  One for hearts 1-4 and one for hearts 5-6.  They both work differently, so it was just easier to keep them separate.

At 0x3010, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A9 00 CD 74 07 D0 01 60 A9 80 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 09 03 A9 C7 99 0A 03 A9 C7 99 0B 03 A9 C7 99 0C 03 A9 80 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0D 03 A9 88 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0D 03 A9 90 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0D 03 A9 98 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0D 03 A9 A0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0E 03 A9 A8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0E 03 A9 B0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0E 03 A9 B8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0E 03 A9 C0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0F 03 A9 C8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0F 03 A9 D0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0F 03 A9 D8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0F 03 A9 E0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 10 03 A9 E8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 10 03 A9 F0 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 10 03 A9 F8 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 10 03 60

At 0x3110, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A9 00 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 09 03 A9 08 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 09 03 A9 10 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 09 03 A9 18 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 09 03 A9 20 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0A 03 A9 28 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0A 03 A9 30 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0A 03 A9 38 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0A 03 A9 40 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0B 03 A9 48 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0B 03 A9 50 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0B 03 A9 58 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0B 03 A9 60 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F6 99 0C 03 A9 68 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 F7 99 0C 03 A9 70 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 FC 99 0C 03 A9 78 CD 74 07 30 01 60 A9 C7 99 0C 03 60

That's it!  Another solution to hiding the sliding health tile is to place it behind the "M" on the magic meter.  Now that it no longer functions, it will just sit there, hidden.

While using the quarter heart hack, bits and bots will deal 1/2 a heart in damage at life level 1.  At life level 5, they will deal 1/4 heart of damage.  At life level 8, it will take two hits for bits and bots to deal 1/4 heart of damage.  As I said before, the health system still functions the same way.  Nothing has been change with how much damage Link receives, or how strong enemies are.  This is just an aesthetic hack.

Hope you like it!  So you have a choice of either 1/2 heart gauge, or 1/4 heart gauge - with the 1/4 hearts more accurately displaying your health.

Edit:

One thing we forgot to consider, when replacing the "-" tile is that it's used by the register name alphabet.  Simple solution is to just change its value to something else, like the "/" character.  It could be any tile, really, even a heart if you want to let players put a heart in their name, ha ha.  For quick reference, CE = / and F8 = heart.

Here is some data on this:

0x17D4B - tile displayed for "-" in aplhabet selection.
0x17D4D - tile displayed for "." in aplhabet selection.

0x17D9F - real value of "-" in alphabet selection.
0x17DA0 - real value of "." in aplhabet selection.

I'm currently looking into the file selection movement.  Hopefully it's not too troublesome to get that up direction working.   :-\  Like njosro mentioned before, I think this would be more trouble than it's worth, and if it's just a partial implementation, it'd be better to not have it at all, just to retain consistency.  Still, though, I'll see if I can figure anything out.


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 12, 2019, 11:46:44 am
Thanks for all this work, IcePenguin.
It's really appreciated.

I gotta say I am really interested in that 1/4 hearts hack.
Although, I feel sacrificing the triangles to be a bit much, but I can think of a nice workaround.
Maybe replacing the left triangle with an arrow like "" could help, and simply remove the triangle found at the right side of the "EXP" and "LEVEL" words.
That could free-up space for where the "X" was located for one heart tile.
If you can find a way to remove the M, then I can replace both the "L" and "M" tiles with the remaining two heart tiles so that we can have all three new heart tiles in there, without sacrificing the centering of the EXP and LEVEL words, with their fancy new "" arrow.

As for the File Selection stuff, if it's really TOO much trouble to get the "UP" input to move the cursor up, I think having it so that both UP and DOWN move the cursor down could work as it is right now.
The current beta patch has it so that both the File Selection and Elimination Mode respond to Up and Down inputs, and they do move the cursor down.
Only one remaining would be the "Game Over" screen, which I couldn't get the Up and Down inputs to make anything in that one.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 12, 2019, 05:05:01 pm
i think the little "M" for magic should be placed under the 1st (farthest left) heart.

like directly, if possible. maybe move the whole row of hearts left one space.

i realize this stuff can be tricky, and i know nothing about coding.

i am just still a little bummed that the Magic meter can't be green and have NO little "M" (hearts look better without the little "L" too, btw)

thanks for all you guys' great work so far, this will be the DEFINITIVE version of Link's Adventure, easily
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 12, 2019, 05:26:07 pm
i think the little "M" for magic should be placed under the 1st (farthest left) heart.

like directly, if possible. maybe move the whole row of hearts left one space.

i realize this stuff can be tricky, and i know nothing about coding.

i am just still a little bummed that the Magic meter can't be green and have NO little "M" (hearts look better without the little "L" too, btw)

thanks for all you guys' great work so far, this will be the DEFINITIVE version of Link's Adventure, easily
Might be feasible to change the magic meter to green.
I know I can change the magic tile which moves to green with no issues, but the problem is the static magic tiles, which use the very first palette, with the white that is shared with all the HUD.
If we can find a way to locate the attribute table for only THOSE tiles in particular, and change them so they used another palette instead,  it could be possible, but I couldn't find anything in a quick search through RAM/PPU. I could be looking wrongly though.

As for the M being placed under the first heart, I don't think that would look good.
If at all, it would make the Life and Magic meters to be displaced, and not aligned with one another.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Jeville on February 12, 2019, 05:38:27 pm
Spoiler:
Done!  I made a small hack that make extra lives a permanent upgrade.  I actually really like this idea because the life dolls are so pointless in the original game.  It gets my vote for being in Redux!  ;)  It would seriously improve the value of the life dolls.

Here's the code:

At 0x1E82A, you'll find the following code:

EE 00 07

Replace it with:

20 50 FF

Next, go to 0x1FF60 and paste this code:  (there's a bit of free space here)

EE 00 07 EE 95 07 60

Next, go to 0x1C368 to find the following code:

A9 03 8D 00 07

Replace this with:

20 A0 D3 EA EA

Finally, go to 0x1D3B0 and paste the following code:

A9 00 CD 95 07 F0 07 AD 95 07 8D 00 07 60 A9 03 8D 95 07 8D 00 07 60

For this hack we are using an unused location in memory.  RAM address $795.  This location was never utilized by the original game, so we will use it to keep track of extra lives collected.  When the game loads for the first time, it initiates this variable ($795) by setting it to 03.  Whenever you collect a life doll, it increments both the normal counter for lives at $700, and the new one we made at $795.  Then when you get a game over, the game uses the new variable to reset the counter, thus having permanent life upgrades!  :)

Great idea Jeville!
Thanks! I will make use of it whenever I find the motivation to make a small-scale hack.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 12, 2019, 05:39:44 pm
The Blue used as a shadow for the text could become green, and then use that colour for the magic bar
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on February 12, 2019, 05:41:05 pm
I love the idea of making the magic meter green.
I thought about commenting on it before.

If it were up to me I'd remove the text for NEXT and LEVEL altogether and the M on the magic meter.
It would make the whole thing look much cleaner.

The 1/4 heart hack is sick and is a must have in my opinion.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 12, 2019, 06:14:21 pm
Argh... Well, I have good news and worse news.  Good news, I managed to get the cursor on the file select to move up and down.  The worse news is it would take a ton of time and code to get it working, and worst of all, it hurts my brain.
:crazy:
There are 8 different cursor movement combinations.  At RAM address $1A:

Combinations:
00 = all 3 files
01 = file 2 & 3
02 = file 1 & 3
03 = file 3
04 = file 1 & 2
05 = file 2
06 = file 1
07 = no files

To get the up and down movement working, you would have to make code for each individual combination, since the game skips rows with no file, or skips over the "register name" when all 3 files are there.  It would take some serious dedication to write all that code, ha ha.

The data starts at 0x17313.  If you wanna do some tests with it, here is what I did:

At 0x17349, you'll find this code:  (use a clean rom)

A9 1C 8D 4D 00

Replace it with:

20 D0 BD EA EA

Next, go to 0x17DE0 a paste this:

A9 1C 8D 4D 00 EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA A9 00 CD 1A 00 F0 09 EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA 60 A9 00 CD 19 00 F0 04 EA EA EA 60 A9 08 CD 44 07 F0 04 EA EA EA 60 A9 04 8D 19 00 CE 45 07 60

Keep in mind that this code is just experimental.  It works, but it ONLY for the combination that has all 3 files entered (00), and it lets you move up from file 1, to "elimination mode".  As you can see, it would take some time to write code for every possible movement and for every combination.

Also, the reason for all those EA (NOP) bytes in the code is because I was trying to keep things organized and easy to follow.  My thought process was to check which combination of files that is loaded at $1A, then check which position the cursor is at using $19:

Cursor position:
00 = file 1
01 = file 2
02 = file 3
03 = register name
04 = elimination mode

With those checks, you could assign the new position accordingly, when you press up.  Anyway, if you, or someone more experienced than me, want to have a go at it I hope this info helps.

By the way, did that code fix the pausing bug?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on February 12, 2019, 11:59:10 pm
Before Trax kills us all, here's a mockup of the HUD that I was thinking, now that some more magic seems to be possible. There's two versions, one with a line separating each bar of magic, and one without. Thoughts?

Without bars:
Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/FyAiZGF.png)
With bars:
Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/eoD3U90.png)

I'm partial to without, myself.

I see "Next" as a pretty non-standard way of just saying experience, which happens to have a nice 3-letter abbreviation that allows you to center it on the HUD. And "Level" just... Doesn't feel necessary?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on February 13, 2019, 01:26:32 am
Without! To hell with the bars!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 13, 2019, 01:54:09 am
Before Trax kills us all...

 :laugh: I laughed WAY too hard at that!

Look, if the game works without a hitch, fine, but I still find it bizarre that nothing serious is happening (not that I want to). But I clearly remember, in the past, people tried to change the L tile and couldn't understand why the game would glitch heavily or even crash just because of a simple graphics modification. The usual explanation was that the tile was involved in the mechanism that makes the screen have a partial scroll. The engine starts drawing the HUD, and on a precise scanline, the L tile is supposed to trigger a hit with the first sprite, called "Sprite Zero". That hit triggers a bit change in one of the PPU registers and that allows to make the rest of the screen scrollable.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong about the potential effects of moving or modifying the tile, maybe the game has a tolerance for timing, maybe it's absolutely not related to background tiles at all, I don't know. From what I see in screenshots, the L tile is either way out of place, or removed completely, and the game still runs fine. Alleluia, then. However, if you suddenly experience weird visual tearing, at least you'll know it's probably caused by a bad timing of the split screen mechanism.

That said, I like where the HUD is going. It feels less cluttered, and just seems to make more sense. The hearts bar grew on me too, but I still have a bit of "not Zelda II" vibe coming from it. As for the magic bar, I prefer having the box separators. I want to know how much magic I have remaining at a quick glance, and the squares help with that (1 square = 16 magic units). Because you can actually associate magic amounts with spells, you can quickly evaluate if you have enough based on a numeric value.

As for the green color, the problem is that we would need a 5th background color. Not that it's not possible, but it means it's another color that could not change through the entire game. Right now, the background colors that are used for the HUD are white, dark blue and red, which never change. After that, the current background of the area you are in, which is usually clear blue sky, black for caves and forests or dark blue for graveyards and some towns. Having an extra color in the HUD would hinder all other colors in the game itself. You'd have to impose green everywhere in the game. I understand the green color is for matching the other Zelda games, but I think leaving it white is fine.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 02:37:12 am
I love the green magic bar, but as Trax said, it would be a challenge to actually get it in the game.  I'm still working out a solution for removing the "M" tile, so if I manage to get something, I'll post a screenshot.  For those that don't know, the way it works is the "M" acts as a mask for the sliding white tile in the magic meter.  So when you are empty, you won't see the magic tile sliding outside of the meter.

Trax, I appreciate the explanation.  I think back on Journey of a Day, we were messing around with it, and I was all confused why the game froze, ha ha.  So far, in all of these modifications, there haven't been any unusual graphical glitches.  There is still scrolling lag when too many monsters are on screen, but that's normal for Zelda II.  I'm glad you like the hearts bar!  It definitely is a stray from what were used to in Zelda II, but it's actually quite nice in action.  One reason I like it more over the health meter, is that now you will die when it's empty.  The original meter could be empty, but you'd still be alive.

ShadowOne, I came up with a possible solution for the heart tiles.  Now this whole process isn't ideal, but it's a good work-around to getting enough tile space for the hearts without sacrificing anything major.  The game uses the arrow tile for only two menus, the level up menu and game over screen.  So what I did for the level up menu was replace it with Link's extra life icon.  (screenshot at the bottom of post)  It still makes sense using this as a cursor, because you are leveling up Link. 

For the game over screen, that uses the same gfx as towns, so there is plenty of stuff you could use for that.  I saw an empty tile by the "?" tile in towns.  The value of this tile is 32, and if you do change this, you'll also want to change it on the title screen, as well.  If you don't, you will see it change gfx when you select "save" because it loads the title screen gfx before that game resets.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/jVTooIR.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WoCYk9V.png)Move this tile to make room for the arrow.

Then go to 0x16FA2 to change it from 32 to 19.  This will restore the title screen logo after moving that tile.  Also, I noticed in Redux, that you used the arrow tile for the magic select cursor, so you'd have to change that back to the magic jar tile.  Again, this is just one possible solution you could do.  :)

Some data:

0x1F49  - Tile for arrow in level up menu, when moving it.
0x268C  - Tile for arrow in level up menu, upon open.
0x1CB23 - Tile for arrow in game over screen, when moving it.
0x1FDE6 - Tile for arrow in game over screen, upon open.

I took some screenshots using Redux, with the new HUD and I even changed the font a bit.  This font, just like yours, is still the Zelda II font, but I reduced the width by 1 pixel.  It seems you reduced the height by 1 pixel, so overall, it looks the same but smaller.  (there is a GIF comparison below)  If you don't want to use the font, no worry, it's just something I did for fun as I was thinking of possible ways to fit the new heart tiles.

Here are 6 screenshots:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/XJpSdNQ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/FxvPIdh.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ninhyBo.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/oTMn4CU.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/SQGz0mj.gif)GIF comparing the smaller font to the original font:

(https://i.imgur.com/5DXQEvA.png)



Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 13, 2019, 06:12:42 am
That smaller font is much more pleasing on the eye, and just makes the top feel lighter.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 07:29:28 am
Sorry about all the super long posts!  Here's another one...   ::)

This is a solution to get the pause text to use palette 01 instead of palette 02.  Palette 01 is reserved for the black screen borders, so that's why it's all black.  Let's change that, allowing the pause letters to display properly with a normal font and black background.  Like so:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/1lBTv7H.png)

First, let's change palette 01's colors.

At 0x1C47F, you'll find palette 01 for world map.  0F 0F 0F 0F.  Replace it with:

0F 30 12 0F

Next, go to 0x79D.  This byte is the tiles to use for the right black screen border, which uses palette 01.  The left one works differently and is unaffected.  Change the tiles from FF to 9C.

Next you'll have to draw these new tiles for the border.  Use the last color in the palette so it uses the black in palette 01.  The tiles should go here, and you'll have to draw them in each bank of the world map animation:  (right after the magic key)

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/SK1Y6uS.png)

Next, change the palette of the "PAUSE!" text.  In the code I posted for the pause hack, look for six instances of A9 02.  Change all of them to A9 01.

Finally, draw the new tiles for the pause display:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/Cc1RJO8.png)

That should do it!  Now you can have the pause display with the black background.  :)


That smaller font is much more pleasing on the eye, and just makes the top feel lighter.

Hey, glad you like it!  It will ultimately be up to ShadowOne's decision.  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 13, 2019, 10:51:38 am
Oh wow IcePenguin, I love those changes you've done!
And the triangles do look a lot nicer that way!

You managed to get them working without sacrificing the centering of the words, that's fantastic.
Every bit of change you have done looks great, everything from the reworked HUD with the 1/4 hearts, the new PAUSE message with the new palette and without the overlay (which btw forgot to say, the code you sent me last time didn't work for me, it was causing flickering at random, so leaving it like it is in your image looks perfect!), the new reduced font, the arrow changes and all, everything looks great.

Have you been implementing the changes over the latest IPS provided in the OP?
If you have, would you be kind enough to provide the IPS with the changes you have applied so far in here?
I think since the last time I have updated the OP patch, the only change that I have done is change the "-" symbol in the character entry to the diagonal symbol "/" (CE in hex I believe). You can change if that one is already applied, if not, please apply it over your changes.

Are there any other changes you have applied over the latest Redux that I didn't mention here?

Thank you so much, honestly.
Without your help, and the help of Trax, njosro, and the beta testers, this hack wouldn't have been possible at all.
I am really thankful for all of you that have been following this hack, and more so to those of you that have helped throughout the development of this hack.

Really makes me love the hacking community, and makes me happy and pushes me to continue pursuing romhacking as a whole.
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 11:12:48 am
I am happy to help out!  It's been a lot of fun.  ;)  Sure I'll make an IPS patch.  If you PM me your email, I'll send it to you.  I have no means for easy uploading at the moment.

Before I do that, however, I'm trying to finish a new hack.  I was going through your entire topic, reading people's comments to see if there is anything I can do.  One thing I saw brought up a few times by a couple of people, was the issue of wasting EXP by placing the crystal in the palace.

So I'm wondering, is this something that you'd want to implement?  If so, should it be a fixed value like say 500 exp per palace?  What are your thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 13, 2019, 11:37:28 am
Sent a PM with email and other stuff, thanks!

I do remember someone mentioning that, but I think limiting the palace Exp to 500 could be really something that would impact the game negatively. As it is right now, it would require some good strategy for a player to make sure to level up before putting the crystal in, that way they gain two levels in a short spawn of time. It's a system that can be abused, but perhaps makes for a more free experience.

I am not sure, what do you think?
Maybe as an optional patch, perhaps?
Alongside the other two I posted.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 11:51:56 am
Hmm, well for me personally, I quite agree with the original comments on it.  One thing I never liked about the original game was feeling "forced" into not completing a palace because your were so close to leveling - plus adding risk to losing all of it by killing more stuff.  So in a way, it was more restricting than free, as you put it.   While it was nice to get a free level, I wouldn't miss it, ha ha.  EXP is aplenty, so I don't think it would have any negative impact on the game.  :P

It could be balanced since bosses give a huge chunk of exp already, so combined with a fixed value from the crystal, it'd be a good reward still.  It'd just need to be a reasonable amount of exp.

You have to consider this, the main problem with the current system is at higher levels.  You could be a couple thousand EXP away from leveling, and if you want to gain the most from a crystal, you basically just have to grind exp.  That kind of thing is why I think the original suggestions were made.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 13, 2019, 12:16:06 pm
You do bring up some good points.

I say we do it, but as an optional patch, do you agree?
That way, those that still want that Experience treat from the original can still have it, and those that want the new one can have it if they so desire.

Although I gotta say 500 Exp seems too little to me, perhaps 1000?
Or maybe I'm not taking into consideration how it would affect the earlier stages of the game, I'm mainly thinking on later on.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 12:31:07 pm
Well it's your call, ha ha.  More options is always a good thing!   8)  I'll just post the hack here for future reference.  It was actually a really simple hack.

At 0x11B77, replace 8D 56 07 with this:

20 F0 9E

Same thing again, at 0x11B80, replace 8D 55 07 with this:

20 00 9F

Next go to 0x11F00 and paste the following code:

A9 F4 8D 56 07 60

And at 0x11F10 paste:

A9 01 8D 55 07 60


All this does is load a value we choose (1F4, or 500 in this example) into the earned exp counter, when placing a crystal.  By default, the game just increments this value with no limit, then stops when you level up.  With a fixed value in there, the full amount will be given, regardless if you level or not.  It's basically like receiving EXP from every other source.


With that done, I'll get to work on making that IPS patch for you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on February 13, 2019, 12:35:55 pm
I don't see anything wrong with a major power boost at the end of a Temple. Other games give you a Heart Container, anyways.

I think 1000 EXP sounds just fine at lower levels.

I'd definitely mix that in with the "1-Up Doll increases max lives," though. I've always waited to finish the Temples until I'm almost at The Great Palace to round up all those extra lives you get when you're at max levels. You can "fix" two ways of cheesing the game at once that way.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 13, 2019, 12:41:50 pm
Done :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x5wl162zhhtz7z/StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips?dl=0

That patch alone should make it so a Palace Crystal gives you a set/static amount of Exp, instead of rolling all the way up until you level up.
I am keeping all the optional patches in a folder, so once Redux is done, I simply download them and put them all together in the ZIP for download, alongside Redux :)

Thanks yet again, IcePenguin!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:
If someone wants to change the amount of Exp you gain at a Palace, simply go to address 0x11F00, you will find [A9 F4 8D 56 07 60], and at 0x11F10 you will find [A9 01 8D 55 07 60]

The important bits are the parts in bold.
If you want to make it so that putting a crystal gives you 1000 EXP instead of 500 (like it is right now), change the 01 for a 03, and the F4 for an E8. That should do it.

We are basically changing the Exp from 01F4 (500 in decimal) to 03E8 (1000 in decimal).
For those interested.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: 8.bit.fan on February 13, 2019, 01:44:48 pm
Just popping in to say GREAT WORK!! :D
Zelda II is actually my favorite Zelda game so this is a great treat! :)

Keep up the great work and look forward to a release!

Btw, any chances of making a separate patch for the Japan FDS version?

Cheers!!  :thumbsup: :beer:

8-bit fan
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 04:07:36 pm
I think 1000 exp could be a good default.  500 does seem quite low.  It was just the first number that popped into my head when making it, ha ha.  1000 seems like it'd be a good base, as it will help a lot at low levels, while still feeling significant at high levels.  :)

Anyway, let me know if there is anything else that can be done.  If things can still be added or improved, let's give it a shot!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DarkSamus993 on February 13, 2019, 04:10:39 pm
Argh... Well, I have good news and worse news.  Good news, I managed to get the cursor on the file select to move up and down.  The worse news is it would take a ton of time and code to get it working, and worst of all, it hurts my brain.
I got the file select fully working (UP and DOWN/SELECT), and actually ended up using less code than the original routine ($BB bytes vs the orignal $CC bytes), however the data table I used takes up $30 bytes so I had to put that in some freespace. Here is a video of it in action (you can see the input display): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF4UJlQ0_1s

[DOWNLOAD] (http://www.mediafire.com/file/rp7o04ylaknhkoe/Zelda2_cursor_asm.zip/file) <-- source code

I'll try and take a peek at the other locations too:
File Select Screen (0x17313), Register Your Name (0x176BC) and in Game Over Screen (0x1CA95).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 13, 2019, 04:20:30 pm
I got the file select fully working (UP and DOWN/SELECT), and actually ended up using less code than the original routine ($BB bytes vs the orignal $CC bytes), however the data table I used takes up $30 bytes so I had to put that in some freespace. Here is a video of it in action (you can see the input display): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF4UJlQ0_1s

[DOWNLOAD] (http://www.mediafire.com/file/rp7o04ylaknhkoe/Zelda2_cursor_asm.zip/file) <-- source code

I'll try and take a peek at the other locations too:

Awesome!  :D  That is so cool.  Thanks for sharing your code, I can't wait to see how you did it.  I just couldn't wrap my brain around it, ha ha.  I'm still learning ASM, so lots of things just hurt my brain...   Anyway, most excellent work, DarkSamus!   :thumbsup: :woot!:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 13, 2019, 04:45:11 pm
It is definitely an improvement, but it is a shame you can't simplify it further, remove the register option, and just allow selecting the empty file and pressing start to enter the name entry screen.

I would replace the fairy with an arrow cursor, just to make it clearer what is currently focused - oh and change Elimination mode to "Delete Save File", perhaps with a palette change to show something destructive is about to happen.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 13, 2019, 05:39:36 pm
Oh wow!
I wasn't expecting DarkSamus993 to drop by here!
And what an awesome thing you brought!
I never expected the actual code for the menu to be able to be written in less bytes than the original had.
I guess it goes to show just how poorly optimized the code of Zelda II really is.

Thanks for the help, DarkSamus!
If you happen to find a way to do so for the Elimination mode, and for the Game Over screen (Continue - Save), please let us know!

Also, I tried compiling it in my Linux PC, but for some reason I keep getting something like "xas.exe" (yes, xas) doesn't recognize the .asm and .nes file, and also it fails with the nes.cpu command (and everything after).

Can someone post the Hex values for the code here and/or the IPS so I can implement it?
Or maybe I should wait to see if the other modes can be implemented as with the File Selection menu DarkSamus posted.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 13, 2019, 05:49:36 pm
About the EXP bonus at the end of palaces, I think the original way is fine, it's relatively proportional to the progression of the player. If we decided to have a fixed amount given to the player, I think it would be a good idea to make the amount higher as you progress. Say, 300 multiplied by the palace number. First palace would reward you with 300 points, and the sixth palace would give a bonus of 1800 points. Or any other table with arbitrary values.

However, when I think about it, the bosses are already doing that, in a way, with the points you get when you defeat them. So, I don't know...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 14, 2019, 05:00:01 am
Tried out that cursor movement hack, by DarkSamus.  This blows my mind!  It's so simple, yet so amazing.  After spending all that time trying to figure it out, and then to have it working is quite surreal.   :laugh:  I am very impressed with how you did it, and to do it in LESS code than the original game.  Nicely done, DarkSamus!

About the EXP bonus at the end of palaces, I think the original way is fine, it's relatively proportional to the progression of the player. If we decided to have a fixed amount given to the player, I think it would be a good idea to make the amount higher as you progress. Say, 300 multiplied by the palace number. First palace would reward you with 300 points, and the sixth palace would give a bonus of 1800 points. Or any other table with arbitrary values.

However, when I think about it, the bosses are already doing that, in a way, with the points you get when you defeat them. So, I don't know...

I feel that the free level up always made boss EXP redundant, and not very exciting.  Sure you get 700 exp from Barba, but doesn't matter because you'll level up regardless of how much exp you have.  It's definitely a system that needs improvement.  Your idea about scaling the EXP is very interesting!  If balanced right, something like that would complement Redux very well.


February 14, 2019, 08:24:14 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Trax's scaling idea was quite interesting, so I made a version that gives exp depending on the palace you're in.  I increased the exp bonus by 500 for each palace.

Palace 1 = 500 exp
Palace 2 = 1000 exp
Palace 3 = 1500 exp
Palace 4 = 2000 exp
Palace 5 = 2500 exp
Palace 6 = 3000 exp
Total    = 10500 exp

This could be balanced further, but seems ok.  It doesn't have to be increments of 500 either, Trax suggested 300 which could work, as well.  Or it could be an increase in return per palace.  (500, 1200, 2000, 2900, etc.)  Overall, I feel like a system similar to this would be an improvement over the original.

Here is the code.

At 0x11B77, replace the 8D 56 07 with:

20 F0 9E

At 0x11B80, replace the 8D 55 07 with:

20 40 9F

Finally, at 0x11F00, paste the following code:

Spoiler:
A9 0D CD 61 05 F0 42 A9 22 CD 61 05 F0 35 A9 0E CD 61 05 F0 28 A9 1C CD 61 05 F0 1B A9 29 CD 61 05 F0 0E A9 3A CD 61 05 F0 01 60 A9 B8 8D 56 07 60 A9 C4 8D 56 07 60 A9 D0 8D 56 07 60 A9 DC 8D 56 07 60 A9 E8 8D 56 07 60 A9 F4 8D 56 07 60 FF A9 0D CD 61 05 F0 42 A9 22 CD 61 05 F0 35 A9 0E CD 61 05 F0 28 A9 1C CD 61 05 F0 1B A9 29 CD 61 05 F0 0E A9 3A CD 61 05 F0 01 60 A9 0B 8D 55 07 60 A9 09 8D 55 07 60 A9 07 8D 55 07 60 A9 05 8D 55 07 60 A9 03 8D 55 07 60 A9 01 8D 55 07 60

Instead of checking the dungeon, it checks the room # for the boss room.  0D = Horsehead boss.  22 = Helmethead boss.  0E = Rebonack boss.  1C = Carock boss.  29 = Gooma boss.  3A = Barba boss.  I couldn't find a reliable way to check the dungeon currently loaded, so decided to base this on the room instead.  With this, the EXP gained from placing a crystal scales accordingly.

Anyway, just trying to address the concerns of those who bought it up in early posts from this topic.  ;)

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 14, 2019, 10:57:27 am
Oh nice!
I wasn't expecting it to be actually implemented into the game, that's great!

So would it be okay if I replace the Static Exp at Palace Crystal hack with this new one, IcePenguin?
So I can get to it asap and put the IPS ready for download.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 14, 2019, 11:04:36 am
Oh nice!
I wasn't expecting it to be actually implemented into the game, that's great!

So would it be okay if I replace the Static Exp at Palace Crystal hack with this new one, IcePenguin?
So I can get to it asap and put the IPS ready for download.

Sure!  The first iteration of that hack has no point anymore, really.  Scaling exp is much better, so thanks to Trax for that idea, ha ha.  Can you think of anything else that might possibly need improvement?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 14, 2019, 11:14:44 am
Done :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x5wl162zhhtz7z/StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips?dl=0

That should have the latest hack made by IcePenguin about each palace giving a different amount of Exp once you put the Crystal in it.

As for other improvements, I'm not sure to be honest.
I think most of my concerns with Zelda II have been addressed, so I can't think of anything else right now.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 14, 2019, 11:22:03 am
Actually, one thing I think would be good is to reduce the limit of re-spawnable enemies on screen at a time, to reduce lag in areas where these enemies are.  For example the orange moblins in forests.  I'm sure it would be a simple byte change unless the original game doesn't have a limit?

If lag could be reduced, that would be huge!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 14, 2019, 11:56:41 am
Actually, one thing I think would be good is to reduce the limit of re-spawnable enemies on screen at a time, to reduce lag in areas where these enemies are.  For example the orange moblins in forests.  I'm sure it would be a simple byte change unless the original game doesn't have a limit?

If lag could be reduced, that would be huge!
I believe that's easily done.
I removed the re-spawn for the Bubble enemies so people didn't abuse the easy 50 Exp on respawn, since I made them weaker (you can kill them in like 10 sword stabs).
It's a simple bit change, it's one of the attributes from the enemy tables.

For the Moblin you mention, I believe that can be found here:
https://lemmy.neocities.org/zelda2/bank1_and_7.txt

Label "bank1_Enemy_Routines1_Dumb_Moblin_Generator"

As for the actual one-bit change, I can't recall, but I believe its the "Regenerate" attribute in some of the Enemy_Attributes labels. Maybe you can find it there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:
I forgot to mention, that the "Register Your Name" (0x176BC) screen doesn't need the remapping for the Select button at all, since if you modify this one, you will end up changing which File you have selected when registering the name alongside the D-Pad, so this one can be left alone

The one that requires it is the Elimination mode, which I believe the button inputs for this one starts at 0x174B6.
That one is the one that needs something similar to the File selection one (where Up/Down move the Fairy cursor up or down).

For the Game Over screen (0x1CA95), I only need it to register Up/Down as inputs alongside Select, this one doesn't matter if they can't move the cursor up, since there's only two options, and pressing either Up or Down will get you to the next one anyways.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 14, 2019, 02:48:04 pm
Ah, thanks for the link!  I was looking for this line here:

Quote
ldx      #$05                          ; 0x5b4b $9B3B A2 05                    ; X = 05

This appears to be the limit to how many regenerating enemies can appear on the screen at one time.  The default is 05.  The most I've seen at one time is 4 orange moblins, and there usually is some serious lag to go with it.  Even 2 o 3 can generate lag.  If you change this value to 00, regenerating enemies will only appear 1 at a time.  Could be a good change, to cut back on lag for some screens!  :)

I only tested this with orange moblins, so I don't know if this is a global value for all regenerating enemies or just orange moblins.

I recommend setting it to 00 or 01.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 15, 2019, 12:31:20 pm
Ah, thanks for the link!  I was looking for this line here:

This appears to be the limit to how many regenerating enemies can appear on the screen at one time.  The default is 05.  The most I've seen at one time is 4 orange moblins, and there usually is some serious lag to go with it.  Even 2 o 3 can generate lag.  If you change this value to 00, regenerating enemies will only appear 1 at a time.  Could be a good change, to cut back on lag for some screens!  :)

I only tested this with orange moblins, so I don't know if this is a global value for all regenerating enemies or just orange moblins.

I recommend setting it to 00 or 01.
That is quite interesting!
Indeed, reducing it to at least 01 does avoid the lag, and I think this is a good countermeasure to balance the fact that the Moblins now also give you 2 Exp, instead of like before, where they didn't give you anything.

I made the change, and it seems to work so far, although I am not sure if this change does also affect other things.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 15, 2019, 12:32:13 pm
Here is another hack that would make a great optional feature.  So, you know how a popular thing to do among Zelda II enthusiasts is playing a low level challenge?  Why not make it easier for them to do this?  With this hack, any time they select "cancel" in the level up menu, it will delete their EXP.  You can still level up if you wish, but now you can avoid leveling up completely!  :P

Here is the code:

At 0x1ECA, replace 20 CE A0 with:

20 D0 A8

Next, go to 0x28E0 and paste this code:  (or any available free space)

A2 02 A9 00 95 02 8A EA EA EA 7D 77 07 A8 AD 71 07 38 F9 70 96 AD 70 07 F9 58 96 B0 02 F6 02 CA 10 E0 A9 03 CD 4E 07 F0 01 60 A9 00 8D 75 07 8D 76 07 8D 55 07 8D 56 07 60

If you select the "Cancel" option in the level up menu, it will wipe your exp and keep the focus on your current stat without shifting to the next stat in the rotation.

Anyway, this could interest those who like doing low level challenges.  :)

Edit:
Actually, after giving it some thought, this is a pretty terrible idea, ha ha.  It would get rather annoying having to cancel a level up every time you gained 50 exp.  Oh well...


That is quite interesting!
Indeed, reducing it to at least 01 does avoid the lag, and I think this is a good countermeasure to balance the fact that the Moblins now also give you 2 Exp, instead of like before, where they didn't give you anything.

I made the change, and it seems to work so far, although I am not sure if this change does also affect other things.

After looking through that document, I'm pretty sure it's for all generating enemies.  At least that's what the information given suggests.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DarkSamus993 on February 15, 2019, 02:10:54 pm
Also, I tried compiling it in my Linux PC, but for some reason I keep getting something like "xas.exe" (yes, xas) doesn't recognize the .asm and .nes file, and also it fails with the nes.cpu command (and everything after).

Can someone post the Hex values for the code here and/or the IPS so I can implement it?
Or maybe I should wait to see if the other modes can be implemented as with the File Selection menu DarkSamus posted.
That's odd, it's working fine for me with Wine on Linux Mint 19.1 in VirtualBox.

[DOWNLOAD] (http://www.mediafire.com/file/rp7o04ylaknhkoe/Zelda2_cursor_asm.zip/file) <-- source code + ips patch

Nothing big changed in this build, just restructured my build folder, added my current notes/documentation, and changed "ELIMINATION MODE" to "DELETE SAVE FILE":
(https://i.imgur.com/AgSCTij.png)    (https://i.imgur.com/5k49SHV.png)

----------------------------------------

It is definitely an improvement, but it is a shame you can't simplify it further, remove the register option, and just allow selecting the empty file and pressing start to enter the name entry screen.
If ShadowOne333 is alright with this, I'd like to try and simplify the file select menu as suggested, perhaps even add a "COPY SAVE FILE" mode. I'll save that until after I get the other menus functioning since those require less work.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 15, 2019, 02:12:38 pm
Here is another hack that would make a great optional feature.  So, you know how a popular thing to do among Zelda II enthusiasts is playing a low level challenge?  Why not make it easier for them to do this?  With this hack, any time they select "cancel" in the level up menu, it will delete their EXP.  You can still level up if you wish, but now you can avoid leveling up completely!  :P

Here is the code:

At 0x1ECA, replace 20 CE A0 with:

20 D0 A8

Next, go to 0x28E0 and paste this code:  (or any available free space)

A2 02 A9 00 95 02 8A EA EA EA 7D 77 07 A8 AD 71 07 38 F9 70 96 AD 70 07 F9 58 96 B0 02 F6 02 CA 10 E0 A9 03 CD 4E 07 F0 01 60 A9 00 8D 75 07 8D 76 07 8D 55 07 8D 56 07 60

If you select the "Cancel" option in the level up menu, it will wipe your exp and keep the focus on your current stat without shifting to the next stat in the rotation.

Anyway, this could interest those who like doing low level challenges.  :)

Edit:
Actually, after giving it some thought, this is a pretty terrible idea, ha ha.  It would get rather annoying having to cancel a level up every time you gained 50 exp.  Oh well...


After looking through that document, I'm pretty sure it's for all generating enemies.  At least that's what the information given suggests.

It's still a cool idea. Perhaps you can rework your code into a challenge version of Redux where you simply don't get exp at all. Now that would be difficult but I guess there would be item and overworld upgrades to help offset it :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 15, 2019, 02:35:35 pm
That's odd, it's working fine for me with Wine on Linux Mint 19.1 in VirtualBox.

[DOWNLOAD] (http://www.mediafire.com/file/rp7o04ylaknhkoe/Zelda2_cursor_asm.zip/file) <-- source code + ips patch

Nothing big changed in this build, just restructured my build folder, added my current notes/documentation, and changed "ELIMINATION MODE" to "DELETE SAVE FILE":
(https://i.imgur.com/AgSCTij.png)    (https://i.imgur.com/5k49SHV.png)

Oh thanks for that! Having the IPS handy is really helpful. An IPS in the zip can really help when my PC just doesn't want to cooperate with me, sometimes Wine works strangely for me, but I blame my Gentoo setup for it hehe.
I did get it to work eventually, just some weird stuff on my side, but it's okay now :)

If ShadowOne333 is alright with this, I'd like to try and simplify the file select menu as suggested, perhaps even add a "COPY SAVE FILE" mode. I'll save that until after I get the other menus functioning since those require less work.
That sounds really good actually, I'm more than on-board with it.
Thanks for your help, DarkSamus!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 15, 2019, 02:50:20 pm

It is definitely an improvement, but it is a shame you can't simplify it further, remove the register option, and just allow selecting the empty file and pressing start to enter the name entry screen.

If ShadowOne333 is alright with this, I'd like to try and simplify the file select menu as suggested, perhaps even add a "COPY SAVE FILE" mode. I'll save that until after I get the other menus functioning since those require less work.

This would be rad!  It'd be like the Link's Awakening file select screen.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!  :)

It's still a cool idea. Perhaps you can rework your code into a challenge version of Redux where you simply don't get exp at all. Now that would be difficult but I guess there would be item and overworld upgrades to help offset it :3

Haha, thanks.  I thought about letting EXP build up, and cap it a 9999.  Then whenever you feel like spending it, open the menu to level up.  That would require a bit more coding, but could be very interesting.


February 15, 2019, 07:43:49 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Here is a new hack!   :happy:

This video shows it in action:

Video:
https://youtu.be/Ps7TyGBcRXI

This one changes how the EXP and leveling work.  It is more streamlined, and allows for more freedom - all while staying true to the original game.  Here is how it works.

Whenever you gain the required EXP to level up (50 exp for Level 2 Life), the game no longer prompts you to level up.  Instead, now you can continuously gain exp without ever seeing the level up menu.  I've set an EXP cap of 9999.  This will allow the possibility of doing a low level game, or leveling up as you normally would!

To level up, you'll have to open the level up menu manually.  You can do this at anytime by pressing UP then START.  Simple!  If you don't have enough Exp for a level, you can still open the menu to check how much exp you need, but you can't select anything to level up.  Also, the game will still display the smallest required Exp in the HUD.

Here is the code for this hack.



At 0x169D, you'll find the following code:

AD 76 07 38 ED 71 07 AD 75 07 ED 70 07 90 05 A9 01 8D 4C 07

Replace it with:

20 B0 A8 EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA

In the original game, this code here is constantly checking your current EXP, and if you have the required amount for a level, it will open the leveling menu.  You can then choose to level or cancel, etc.  We are removing this, so the game never prompts you to level up.

At 0x28C0, paste the following code:  (or any free space by changing the jsr above)

A9 27 CD 75 07 F0 01 60 A9 0F CD 76 07 30 01 60 A9 27 8D 75 07 A9 0F 8D 76 07 60

This is setting the Exp cap to 9999.



At 0x11B77, you'll find the following code:  8D 56 07

Replace it with:  20 F0 9E

At 0x11B80, you'll find the following code:  8D 55 07

Replace it with:  20 00 9F

At 0x11F00, paste this code:  AD 71 07 8D 56 07 60
At 0x11F10, paste this code:  AD 70 07 8D 55 07 60

This bit of code changes the functionality of Crystal Exp.  Now it will give you Exp equal to your required Exp, so you will always gain enough to level up, no matter what.



At 0x20DE, paste the following code:

EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA 60

The original code here determines what happens when you choose the "Cancel" option.  Normally, it will shift the accumulator, selecting the next level in the rotation.  Or it will prevent you from canceling if you can level all three levels.   We are removing this functionality completely, hence all the EA (NOP) opcodes.



Next, at 0x1DB7, you'll find the following code:  EE 24 05

Replace it with:  20 D0 A8

At 0x28E0, paste the following code:

A5 F7 29 08 D0 04 EE 24 05 60 A9 01 8D 4C 07 A9 03 8D 4E 07 60

This bit of code lets you open the leveling up menu, by pressing UP then START.  It's simple to do, and you can't accidentally open it, interrupting game play.  Wouldn't want an accident during battle, right?  :P

That's it!  With this new system, leveling up is more free, and allows you to level up at your own pace.  You can still level up at the same pace as the original game, or choose not to completely!  The choice is now yours.  Keep in mind, the EXP cap is now 9999, so if you reach that amount, you won't be able to gain anymore.

Also, placing a crystal in a palace works the same way.  Whatever your required Exp is in the HUD, it will give you that amount.  So if you want more exp, save the crystals for the higher levels, as normal.  You can then manually open the level up menu to claim your free level.  :)


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 15, 2019, 08:04:23 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/UxOU1GW.png) (https://i.imgur.com/7OwNfTL.png)

Just some font ideas, smaller text and shared font design between Zelda 1 and 2

As for the frame around the letters, all that needs is the flipped bit to be set to fix those edges
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 15, 2019, 09:47:49 pm
I gotta say, the chubby Link Sprite might be a better overworld sprite. It might be worth changing. Speaking of last minute changes, ItemDrop is doing a winter themes AoL hack and was talking about some fundamentals. When I mentioned the health bar being hearts, he mentioned something in response I don't think anyone has that is so simple it might just work. Magic Bar being jars.. It would probably be easy and look fine too XD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 16, 2019, 01:32:28 am
I gotta say, the chubby Link Sprite might be a better overworld sprite. It might be worth changing.

Ha ha, chubby.  Having it side by side with the sprite from Zelda II certainly does make it seem that way.  Never crossed my mind before!   :laugh:

As for using it, not so sure that would be a good idea.  That'd be like using toon Link, from Wind Waker, in a more realistic game like Twilight Princess.  While that may be a bit of an exaggeration, seeing how these are a few pixels, the art style is just too different.  Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it.  Still, though, it would be quite amusing!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on February 16, 2019, 12:05:01 pm
Ha ha, chubby.  Having it side by side with the sprite from Zelda II certainly does make it seem that way.  Never crossed my mind before!   :laugh:

As for using it, not so sure that would be a good idea.  That'd be like using toon Link, from Wind Waker, in a more realistic game like Twilight Princess.  While that may be a bit of an exaggeration, seeing how these are a few pixels, the art style is just too different.  Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it.  Still, though, it would be quite amusing!

I agree with IcePenguin. While I'm not a big fan of Link's overworld sprite in Zelda II, using the Zelda 1 Link would feel too out of place. I tend to think of the Zelda 1 Link sprite as representing "child Link" while the Zelda II sprite is "adult Link."
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 16, 2019, 12:46:18 pm
Here is another little "bug" fix you could do.  The alphabet cursor in the register name screen overlaps with the bottom most border.

(https://i.imgur.com/TlqnU2d.gif)

At 0x1787D, change the value from FF to C7.  This is the tiles used for the cursor.

Then tile edit these unused tiles in bank 1. 

(https://i.imgur.com/fMAdFua.png)

This is what it will look like after.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/VxlyBBN.gif)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on February 16, 2019, 07:09:36 pm
damn that's a nice "bug" fix. very clean.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 17, 2019, 05:17:46 am
Actually, I ran into another bug: if you save from the overworld via Up+A on the pause menu, the screen doesn't undim until you pause again in the overworld, which is a bit annoying. It's nothing game breaking really, but it's still a bit of an issue.

Found a solution to the dimming bug when pausing, as well as the bug reported by Danny.  Now the dimming effect should be fully functional!  I did a lot of testing with this new version, and I couldn't replicate the bug at all.   :woot!:  First, we are going to modify the saving code a bit, so the dimming effect is reset when you save on the world map.  (thanks for providing your notes on this!  it helped a lot!)  Second, we are going to replace the code from the old pausing hack.



At 0x21C3, paste the following code:  20 A0 A8 EA EA

We are relocating the data here so we can add onto it.

At 0x28B0, paste the following code:  A9 1E 8D FE 00 A9 05 8D 36 07 60

This is resetting ($FE) the dim effect when you open the save menu on the world map.



At 0x226D, paste this code:  20 A0 AB EA EA EA EA EA EA 60 EE 24 05 60

At 0x2BB0, paste the following code:

Spoiler:
A5 F7 29 10 F0 07 C5 00 F0 03 4C B0 AB 60 FF FF A9 00 CD 27 07 F0 04 EE 24 05 60 A9 58 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 01 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 58 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 01 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 58 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 01 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 58 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 01 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 58 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 01 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 58 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 01 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 EE 24 05 A9 18 CD FE 00 F0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

This is new chunk of code will replace the old "PAUSE!" hack.   We are using the same space as before, but now it should work proper!

That's it!  Let me know how it goes.   :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 10:54:00 am
Oh wow.
I really should pop in more consistently, at least once during weekends.
I tend to not get online during weekends, so that's my reason why you mostly don't see me posting once a Friday afternoon arrives :P

With that, said, let's get this going:

If ShadowOne333 is alright with this, I'd like to try and simplify the file select menu as suggested, perhaps even add a "COPY SAVE FILE" mode. I'll save that until after I get the other menus functioning since those require less work.


This would be rad!  It'd be like the Link's Awakening file select screen.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!  :)

Haha, thanks.  I thought about letting EXP build up, and cap it a 9999.  Then whenever you feel like spending it, open the menu to level up.  That would require a bit more coding, but could be very interesting.


February 15, 2019, 07:43:49 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Here is a new hack!   :happy:

This video shows it in action:

Video:
https://youtu.be/Ps7TyGBcRXI

This one changes how the EXP and leveling work.  It is more streamlined, and allows for more freedom - all while staying true to the original game.  Here is how it works.

Whenever you gain the required EXP to level up (50 exp for Level 2 Life), the game no longer prompts you to level up.  Instead, now you can continuously gain exp without ever seeing the level up menu.  I've set an EXP cap of 9999.  This will allow the possibility of doing a low level game, or leveling up as you normally would!

To level up, you'll have to open the level up menu manually.  You can do this at anytime by holding START when you close the inventory menu.  You can also open it by holding START when closing the level up menu, so you can level up multiple times in succession.  Simple!  If you don't have enough Exp for a level, you can still open the menu to check how much exp you need, but you can't select anything to level up.  Also, the game will still display the smallest required Exp in the HUD.

Here is the code for this hack.



At 0x169D, you'll find the following code:  AD 76 07

Replace it with:  20 B0 A8

At 0x16A4, you'll find the following code:  AD 75 07

Replace it with:  AD 97 07

In the original game, this code here is constantly checking your current EXP, and if you have the required amount for a level, it will open the leveling menu.  You can then choose to level or cancel, etc.  We are removing this, so the game never prompts you to level up.  We are loading RAM address $797 into the accumulator, because it is never used and is always 0.

At 0x28C0, paste the following code:  (or any free space by changing the jsr above)

A9 27 CD 75 07 F0 01 60 A9 0F CD 76 07 30 01 60 A9 27 8D 75 07 A9 0F 8D 76 07 60

This is setting the Exp cap to 9999.



At 0x11B77, you'll find the following code:  8D 56 07

Replace it with:  20 F0 9E

At 0x11B00, you'll find the following code:  8D 55 07

Replace it with:  20 00 9F

At 0x11F00, paste this code:  AD 71 07 8D 56 07 60
At 0x11F10, paste this code:  AD 70 07 8D 55 07 60

This bit of code changes the functionality of Crystal Exp.  Now it will give you Exp equal to your required Exp, so you will always gain enough to level up, no matter what.



At 0x20DE, paste the following code:

EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA 60

The original code here determines what happens when you choose the "Cancel" option.  Normally, it will shift the accumulator, selecting the next level in the rotation.  Or it will prevent you from canceling if you can level all three levels.   We are removing this functionality completely, hence all the EA (NOP) opcodes.



Next, at 0x1D3FC, you'll find the following code:  20 C3 8D

Replace it with:  20 B0 FE

At 0x1FEC0, paste the following code:

20 C3 8D A9 10 CD 44 07 F0 01 60 A9 01 8D 4C 07 A9 03 8D 4E 07 60

This bit of code lets you open the leveling up menu, by holding START when you close the inventory menu.  It's simple to do, and you can't accidentally open it, interrupting game play.  Wouldn't want an accident during battle, right?  :P

That's it!  With this new system, leveling up is more free, and allows you to level up at your own pace.  You can still level up at the same pace as the original game, or choose not to completely!  The choice is now yours.  Keep in mind, the EXP cap is now 9999, so if you reach that amount, you won't be able to gain anymore.

Also, placing a crystal in a palace works the same way.  Whatever your required Exp is in the HUD, it will give you that amount.  So if you want more exp, save the crystals for the higher levels, as normal.  You can then manually open the level up menu to claim your free level.  :)

Holy shit, this is by far the most extensive ASM hack I've see you done for Redux, IcePenguin, this is quite something!
I'll keep tabs on this, as I think it might take me a while to add it.
Just as a thought, have you given a thought about changing the button input for changing to the Level Up menu from Holding start to pressing Select once in the Spell menu? I believe Select is not used in the menus, is it?
If not Select, you can make use of the Left/Right inputs from the D-Pad to switch between menus, too. That could make it feel more natural. Either Select or the Left/Right options I feel might be better than holding Start, but let me know what do you think.

Here is another little "bug" fix you could do.  The alphabet cursor in the register name screen overlaps with the bottom most border.

(https://i.imgur.com/TlqnU2d.gif)

At 0x1787D, change the value from FF to C7.  This is the tiles used for the cursor.

Then tile edit these unused tiles in bank 1. 

(https://i.imgur.com/fMAdFua.png)

This is what it will look like after.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/VxlyBBN.gif)

Ah this is something I did notice when trying to make the Button remapping for the menus, I just didn't mention it here.
Nice little bugfix, IcePenguin, added too :)

Found a solution to the dimming bug when pausing, as well as the bug reported by Danny.  Now the dimming effect should be fully functional!  I did a lot of testing with this new version, and I couldn't replicate the bug at all.   :woot!:  First, we are going to modify the saving code a bit, so the dimming effect is reset when you save on the world map.  (thanks for providing your notes on this!  it helped a lot!)  Second, we are going to replace the code from the old pausing hack.



At 0x21C3, paste the following code:  20 A0 A8 EA EA

We are relocating the data here so we can add onto it.

At 0x28B0, paste the following code:  A9 1E 8D FE 00 A9 05 8D 36 07 60

This is resetting ($FE) the dim effect when you open the save menu on the world map.



Next, at 0x2273, paste the following code:  C5 00 F0 03 4C A0 AB 60

At 0x2BB0, paste the following code:

Spoiler:
EE 24 05 A5 F7 29 50 D0 01 60 A5 F7 29 D0 D0 01 60 A5 F7 29 F0 D0 01 60 C5 00 D0 01 60 AD 27 07 F0 01 60 A9 58 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 01 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 58 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 01 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 58 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 01 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 58 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 01 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 58 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 01 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 58 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 01 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 A9 18 CD FE 00 F0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60

This is new chunk of code will replace the old "PAUSE!" hack.   We are using the same space as before, but now it should work proper!

That's it!  Let me know how it goes.   :)

This, as well, has been implemented.
I tested it for a while and it seems like it doesn't suffer from the same bug as before.
So far, so good :)
Not even the previous bug appeared so far, even better! I will keep this as-is, hopefully this should be it for the PAUSE screen on the overworld.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 11:37:54 am
Ah, I'm happy to know that bug fix worked for you.  That bug was about to drive me crazy, ha ha.  And, yes, I think it's safe to say that the pause display is final!  :)

Just as a thought, have you given a thought about changing the button input for changing to the Level Up menu from Holding start to pressing Select once in the Spell menu? I believe Select is not used in the menus, is it?
If not Select, you can make use of the Left/Right inputs from the D-Pad to switch between menus, too. That could make it feel more natural. Either Select or the Left/Right options I feel might be better than holding Start, but let me know what do you think.

I did some different tests with other button combos, but found that Start was just the easiest to implement, coding wise.  The level up menu can't be opened until the inventory menu is closed, otherwise it glitches the menu.  The reason I settled on Start is because it already closes the menu, and since you have to push Start to close it, just holding it seems to be the simplest way to open the level menu.  Once you try it yourself, you'll see how simple it really is.  Plus, the Start button is already associated with opening the menu, so it's easy to remember.

However, another button could be possible.  It would be challenging to implement, though.  Some things would need to be considered first - For example:

If you wanted it to be Select, I'd have to add functionality to the Select button to close the menu first (this would fairly easy actually), then open the leveling menu.  Then I'd have to add condition checks for the Select button to not open the leveling menu during game play, because you'd end up opening the menu while casting magic.  Same is applied for a directional button inputs.

With the Start button, all those conditions checks aren't necessary since it's only purpose is for opening the menu.

I'll send you an IPS patch for it, so it'd be easier for you to try out.  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 11:59:15 am
Yeah I just saw your mails :P
Sorry!
I am going through them and implementing stuff as I go along.

Thanks for the patches, seriously!
All of the bug fixes you have posted have been included so far, only thing remaining should be the New Exp system you made.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 12:08:35 pm
No problem!  :)  Let me know what you think of the Start button opening the level menu.

Also, I wanted to ask you...

Since extra life upgrades are now permanent, that will give players 9 lives after collecting them all.  If a life is gained after that, using the level up menu, it'll temporarily increase beyond 9, showing glitched tiles.  Like most NES games do when a counter goes beyond a certain limit.  So should the extra life from leveling up past Level 8 be removed?  Or possibly changed to something else?  What are your thoughts on that?  It's fine by me either way, but if it could be improved, I'm willing to look into it! 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 12:14:21 pm
Do I understand correctly that every link doll is going to give a player an extra permanent life every time they boot up the game? This seems like another change that would make the game vastly easier. While I've been incredibly excited about this project since the beginning, if the balance of the game shifts too far in the direction of easy it would discourage me greatly. Would it be possible to make an easy mode and a hard mode that would align closely to the original challenge while providing all the other great improvements?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 12:35:36 pm
Do I understand correctly that every link doll is going to give a player an extra permanent life every time they boot up the game? This seems like another change that would make the game vastly easier. While I've been incredibly excited about this project since the beginning, if the balance of the game shifts too far in the direction of easy it would discourage me greatly. Would it be possible to make an easy mode and a hard mode that would align closely to the original challenge while providing all the other great improvements?

Hmm, I wouldn't say it makes things any easier, only more convenient.  Like the restart in palace hack, it just prevents the tedium of having the travel long distances regularly.  The Link dolls do provide the same effect as the original, but not just limited to a one time use.  As Shadic said in an earlier post, he would collect all the Link dolls at the end of the game, before tackling the Great Palace.  It's somewhat the same thing, but with them being permanent, makes them more meaningful for the entire game.

I do see how it could be a controversial change, but overall, it feels like a much needed improvement.  And for those wanting more challenge, they could be avoided as they usually are.  I always say more options is a good thing, but of course, it's up to ShadowOne.  Anway, that's my thoughts on it.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 12:42:43 pm
Hmm, I wouldn't say it makes things any easier, only more convenient.  Like the restart in palace hack, it just prevents the tedium of having the travel long distances regularly.  The Link dolls do provide the same effect as the original, but not just limited to a one time use.  As Shadic said in an earlier post, he would collect all the Link dolls at the end of the game, before tackling the Great Palace.  It's somewhat the same thing, but with them being permanent, makes them more meaningful for the entire game.

I do see how it could be a controversial change, but overall, it feels like a much needed improvement.  And for those wanting more challenge, they could be avoided as they usually are.  I always say more options is a good thing, but of course, it's up to ShadowOne.  Anway, that's my thoughts on it.  :)
Convenience and ease of play are one and the same. That seems to be the general trend these days for all video games, and it is a far cry from what I would describe as the good old days of challenge. But thank god for hard modes because I couldn't enjoy most games released today if those options didn't exist. Old fashioned gaming is all about using every tool the game gives you to its greatest possible benefit. I can't respect or enjoy a game where I have to actively avoid power ups or equipment. I know my thinking is against the current trends but we are talking about retrogaming here. I never found Zelda 2 to be overly difficult to begin with and I can't be the only one who feels this way.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 01:02:10 pm
Convenience and ease of play are one and the same. That seems to be the general trend these days for all video games, and it is a far cry from what I would describe as the good old days of challenge. But thank god for hard modes because I couldn't enjoy most games released today if those options didn't exist. Old fashioned gaming is all about using every tool the game gives you to its greatest possible benefit. I can't respect or enjoy a game where I have to actively avoid power ups or equipment. I know my thinking is against the current trends but we are talking about retrogaming here. I never found Zelda 2 to be overly difficult to begin with and I can't be the only one who feels this way.

No worries, if you still want the game to behave the same way as it did before for the Dolls, all you have to do is reinsert the original bytes to the following two locations:

Quote from: IcePenguin
At 0x1E82A, you'll find the following code:
EE 00 07

Next, go to 0x1C368 to find the following code:
A9 03 8D 00 07

One of the things I like about this hack is that most changes have been documented throughout the thread, so if there is one particular change one person is not too fond of, one can simply search for it in the thread and undo it.



No problem!  :)  Let me know what you think of the Start button opening the level menu.

Also, I wanted to ask you...

Since extra life upgrades are now permanent, that will give players 9 lives after collecting them all.  If a life is gained after that, using the level up menu, it'll temporarily increase beyond 9, showing glitched tiles.  Like most NES games do when a counter goes beyond a certain limit.  So should the extra life from leveling up past Level 8 be removed?  Or possibly changed to something else?  What are your thoughts on that?  It's fine by me either way, but if it could be improved, I'm willing to look into it! 

Interesting point you bring up.
I didn't even know there were that many Link Dolls spread around in Zelda II.
I can think of two things:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 01:09:29 pm
Convenience and ease of play are one in the same. That seems to be the general trend these days for all video games, but it is a far cry from what I would describe as the good old days of challenge. But thank god for hard modes because I couldn't enjoy most games released today if those options didn't exist. Old fashioned gaming is all about using every tool the game gives you to its greatest possible benefit. I can't respect or enjoy a game where I have to actively avoid power ups or equipment. I know my thinking is against the current trends but we are talking about retrogaming here. I never found Zelda 2 to be overly difficult to begin with and I can't be the only one who feels this way.

On the convenience part I'd argue against that, but everything else, I feel the same way you do.  :P  I love having challenge in video games, and I think, like you, actively avoiding power-ups to make it harder isn't the best choice for design.  Though some people do enjoy that for challenge runs - like avoiding leveling to do low level runs.  As for Zelda II, it has never been that challenging for me, as well.  That's one of the reasons my Zelda II hacks are so hard, ha ha.

Interesting point you bring up.
I didn't even know there were that many Link Dolls spread around in Zelda II.
I can think of two things:
  • Make it so the Exp counter simply stops once you have maxed out all of the levels to avoid gaining extra lives.
  • Add a hack to implement >9 lives in the counter. However, I feel as if this would be really obnoxious. Perhaps only keeping track of the counter in RAM instead of having to depict anything above 9 in the "xlives" counter and also in the Spell menu. One workaround could be to still let the game have additional lives (>9) but letting the counter cap at a maximum of 9, and only go lower once the counter in Ram does hit 8. (I believe some games did this to avoid handling numbers above 9)

Hmm interesting, setting a visual cap on the counter could work.  Good idea!  :)  I'll do some tests with it, and see if anything happens. 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 01:15:57 pm
No worries, if you still want the game to behave the same way as it did before for the Dolls, all you have to do is reinsert the original bytes to the following two locations:

One of the things I like about this hack is that most changes have been documented throughout the thread, so if there is one particular change one person is not too fond of, one can simply search for it in the thread and undo it.
I appreciate you providing the location I need to switch with the original bytes, but I hope this kind of thing doesn't become the norm for your future projects. I've been a fan of your work over the years and have turned many people on to your patches specifically because you always took a conservative approach and improved classic games without taking these kinds of gameplay liberties.

February 18, 2019, 01:16:44 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
On the convenience part I'd argue against that, but everything else, I feel the same way you do.  :P  I love having challenge in video games, and I think, like you, actively avoiding power-ups to make it harder isn't the best choice for design.  Though some people do enjoy that for challenge runs - like avoiding leveling to do low level runs.  As for Zelda II, it has never been that challenging for me, as well.  That's one of the reasons my Zelda II hacks are so hard, ha ha.
With these statements of agreement, now I'm sitting here incredibly confused over why you are making the game easier :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 01:38:13 pm
I appreciate you providing the location I need to switch with the original bytes, but I hope this kind of thing doesn't become the norm for your future projects. I've been a fan of your work over the years and have turned many people on to your patches specifically because you always took a conservative approach and improved classic games without taking these kinds of gameplay liberties.
I do feel your worry over this change.
I also thought that it would perhaps make the game easier, but on closer inspection, it's not that much easier.

First off, you would have to get out of your way to get each one of the Link Dolls, and this would by no means make the beginning portion of the game easier, it would only see a real benefit once you reach the later part of the game, which is where all of the long trips are taken, and where most lives are lost just to get to a certain late-game palace if you start from Zelda's Palace. IIRC, only two dolls are located in Western Hyrule, so that makes you'll get 5 lives tops once you hit Eastern Hyrule, and that's when I believe most lives you get are worth their juice.

Second, and perhaps the most important detail, players doing new runs of Zelda II wouldn't know the Link doll doesn't count towards your total amount of lives. So if they end up getting one Doll during normal play, they will lose it's advantage and the overall meaning of collecting them when they reset or restart the game. This kind of hack makes it so that the Dolls are actually worth getting during your normal play of the game, instead of saving them all for the very end (The very last one is at Great Palace, too).

Taken the whole game into consideration, I think having them be a permanent life addition instead of a temporary one is more of a QoL hack for something that I bet most players will not even know unless they are already experienced Zelda II players.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 01:46:13 pm
I do feel your worry over this change.
I also thought that it would perhaps make the game easier, but on closer inspection, it's not that much easier.

First off, you would have to get out of your way to get each one of the Link Dolls, and this would by no means make the beginning portion of the game easier, it would only see a real benefit once you reach the later part of the game, which is where all of the long trips are taken, and where most lives are lost just to get to a certain late-game palace if you start from Zelda's Palace. IIRC, only two dolls are located in Western Hyrule, so that makes you'll get 5 lives tops once you hit Eastern Hyrule, and that's when I believe most lives you get are worth their juice.

Second, and perhaps the most important detail, players doing new runs of Zelda II wouldn't know the Link doll doesn't count towards your total amount of lives. So if they end up getting one Doll during normal play, they will lose it's advantage and the overall meaning of collecting them when they reset or restart the game. This kind of hack makes it so that the Dolls are actually worth getting during your normal play of the game, instead of saving them all for the very end (The very last one is at Great Palace, too).

Taken the whole game into consideration, I think having them be a permanent life addition instead of a temporary one is more of a QoL hack for something that I bet most players will not even know unless they are already experienced Zelda II players.
I appreciate your very thoughtful response, but I wish I was more convinced by it. I'm curious what the breakdown of new versus existing players is with hacks like this. From my experience chatting about hack projects in facebook gaming groups, it's not typically the young-ins going back to play these thirty year old games or wanting to deal with rom patching in general. Evidence tells me it's primarily those who grew up with them in the first place looking for a reason to revisit. If it would be helpful for you, I have a 30 year old friend who is literally waiting on this being finished to play Zelda 2 for the first time. She is pretty thorough at finding things and I could come back and tell you exactly how many she finds. For me, I know that I'll running on at least 8 lives without looking at any references. With my last playthrough of your patch, I was finding the end section of the game already a lot easier based on the higher XP accumulation rates and the fact I was maxing out all my levels by the 6th palace (I do grind a little admittedly.) I honestly missed the feeling of awe and danger the original game used to give me in the latter stretch. When I think back, you've done a ton of little things to make the game easier. These include lack of XP draining from enemies, higher magic potion and xp bag drop rates, higher xp yield from some enemies, i'm not sure about this one but lower damage in some cases? Also, I'm not certain but lower magic consumption rates? Lower hits required to kill farm-able enemies. Restart in Palace as well. All of those minor changes added up together along with this new change of accumulating a slew of lives makes the game far, far easier.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 01:47:47 pm
With these statements of agreement, now I'm sitting here incredibly confused over why you are making the game easier :P

Fair point, but the Life doll hack does fit within the scope of what ShadowOne is trying to accomplish with Redux.  He mentioned in his original post about improving upon the mechanics of the original (or obnoxious things) to make it an overall more enjoyable experience.  The Link doll thing was mentioned a few times by other users throughout the topic, which frankly, fits along those lines.  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 01:49:52 pm
Fair point, but the Life doll hack does fit within the scope of what ShadowOne is trying to accomplish with Redux.  He mentioned in his original post about improving upon the mechanics of the original (or obnoxious things) to make it an overall more enjoyable experience.  The Link doll thing was mentioned a few times by other users throughout the topic, which frankly, fits along those lines.  :P
I suppose that means you are thoroughly absolved and Shadowone333 is the individual to be complaining to.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 01:58:42 pm
I appreciate your very thoughtful response, but I wish I was more convinced by it. I'm curious what the breakdown of new versus existing players is with hacks like this. From my experience chatting about hack projects in facebook gaming groups, it's not typically the young-ins going back to play these thirty year old games or wanting to deal with rom patching in general. Evidence tells me it's primarily those who grew up with them in the first place looking for a reason to revisit. If it would be helpful for you, I have a 30 year old friend who is literally waiting on this being finished to play Zelda 2 for the first time. She is pretty thorough at finding things and I could come back and tell you exactly how many she finds. For me, I know that I'll running on at least 8 lives without looking at any references. With my last playthrough of your patch, I was finding the end section of the game already a lot easier based on the higher XP accumulation rates and the fact I was maxing out all my levels by the 6th palace (I do grind a little admittedly.) I honestly missed the feeling of awe and danger the original game used to give me in the latter stretch.
Oh that's nice, I didn't know you she was waiting on this hack to make her first playthrough of Zelda II.
It would be interesting for sure to know what she thinks of it, and how well or how poorly balanced the game is with these new changes.

The main thing I take into consideration when making a change for this hack is:
How much would this change have made me enjoy Zelda II a lot more if I first played it with it implemented?

That's my basis, and I clearly remember that the Link Doll thing was one of my gripes with the game when I first played it (my first playthrough of it was in the Zelda Collection for GC btw).
I believe the very first problem I had was the saves count as deaths, that gave me cholera, and a close second was the Link Dolls, because at the point I realized I couldn't get them back, I already took like 4 of them, before even getting to the 6th palace.

But I think it's a fair point you make.
Still, if you don't like it, and others also don't feel like this change is worth having, I could make it an optional patch. :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 02:01:09 pm
I suppose that means you are thoroughly absolved and Shadowone333 is the one to be complaining to.  :thumbsup:

Haha, of course not!  It's pretty much my fault since I was the one to make the hack.   :laugh:  Ah, ShadowOne beat me to it, but it would be easy enough to make an optional patch to keep the old functionality, or have the new one.  There are already optional patches for some other things.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 02:04:45 pm
Oh that's nice, I didn't know you she was waiting on this hack to make her first playthrough of Zelda II.
It would be interesting for sure to know what she thinks of it, and how well or how poorly balanced the game is with these new changes.

The main thing I take into consideration when making a change for this hack is:
How much would this change have made me enjoy Zelda II a lot more if I first played it with it implemented?

That's my basis, and I clearly remember that the Link Doll thing was one of my gripes with the game when I first played it (my first playthrough of it was in the Zelda Collection for GC btw).
I believe the very first problem I had was the saves count as deaths, that gave me cholera, and a close second was the Link Dolls, because at the point I realized I couldn't get them back, I already took like 4 of them, before even getting to the 6th palace.

But I think it's a fair point you make.
Still, if you don't like it, and others also don't feel like this change is worth having, I could make it an optional patch. :)
Zelda 2 was an admittedly divisive game. I suppose you are coming from the perspective of someone who was turned off by it (there are many like you) and I'm coming from the perspective of someone who loved it from the beginning in spite of its at times brutal nature--even more so than Zelda 1 in fact. I'm just a guy who wants a spiffier version with a cleaner UI, touches of graphical polishing, a real pause screen, a way to save without dying, and much needed translation improvements--particularly with things like the "spell" spell. I think the problem with death counters is one of the few things we can totally agree on as it had no other function but to annoy you.

There are more of you than there are of me out there as far as Zelda 2 players so I have to remind myself of this in order to feel better about the situation.  :P And it is your hack after all. I'm just a backseat driver here.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 02:09:24 pm
Zelda 2 was an admittedly divisive game. I suppose you are coming from the perspective of someone who was turned off by it (there are many like you) and I'm coming from the perspective of someone who loved it from the beginning in spite of its at times brutal nature--even more so than Zelda 1 in fact. I'm just a guy who wants a spiffier version with a cleaner UI, touches of graphical polishing, a real pause screen, a way to save without dying, and much needed translation improvements--particularly with things like the "spell" spell. I think the problem with death counters is one of the few things we can totally agree on as it had no other function but to annoy you.

There are more of you than there are of me out there as far as Zelda 2 players so I have to remind myself of this in order to feel better about the situation.  :P And it is your hack after all. I'm just a backseat driver here.
It's okay :)
I will add it as an optional patch for sure, so don't worry about it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:
Patch added :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iryxgegnyfidey9/OriginalLinkDolls.ips?dl=0
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 02:19:54 pm
Amongst the constuctive discussion, I was doing some tests with the life counter.  It didn't occur to me that the tiles for the numbers are located right before the alphabet, so if the player does exceed 9, it'll show A, B, C, etc.  Thinking on it, I actually quite like that, ha ha.  It has a certain... charm to it.  I could still try to implement a visual cap for the counter, but just wanted to express my thoughts on that before going further.  What do you think?  Would you rather it not display above 9?

I'm just a backseat driver here.

Nah, you're just a hardcore Zelda II fan!  ;)  Not enough people like that in this world.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 02:21:54 pm
Amongst the constuctive discussion, I was doing some tests with the life counter.  It didn't occur to me that the tiles for the numbers are located right before the alphabet, so if the player does exceed 9, it'll show A, B, C, etc.  Thinking on it, I actually quite like that, ha ha.  It has a certain... charm to it.  I could still try to implement a visual cap for the counter, but just wanted to express my thoughts on that before going further.  What do you think?  Would you rather it not display above 9?
So it does keep counting properly?
That's neat.
However, I do feel that will screw us up with the counter at the Spell menu.
That one's one digit only, it would require a rewrite of the menu to be able to accommodate two digits for lives.
I say let's go for the cap at 9, it's the most proper solution without sacrificing other stuff atm.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 02:29:48 pm
I have a possible compromise to throw into the arena since I am sympathetic to your desire to provide the dolls with lasting value of some kind. Since there are 6 dolls in the game, what if it took 3 dolls acquired to give you one permanent extra life? That would limit your max lives to 5 for completionists and 4 for the average player. 3 is a magical number in Zelda after all. The dolls could also provide a temporary increased life as they did before.

Thank you for the optional patch btw!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 02:40:47 pm
I have a possible compromise to throw into the arena since I am sympathetic to your desire to provide the dolls with lasting value of some kind. Since there are 6 dolls in the game, what if it took 3 dolls acquired to give you one permanent extra life? That would limit your max lives to 5 for completionists and 4 for the average player. 3 is a magical number in Zelda after all. The dolls could also provide a temporary increased life as they did before.

Thank you for the optional patch btw!
If I understand correctly, you mean getting the Dolls as if they were pieces of heart in theory?
Like:
4 Pieces of Heart = 1 Extra Heart
3 Dolls = 1 Extra Life
Like that?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 02:50:27 pm
If I understand correctly, you mean getting the Dolls as if they were pieces of heart in theory?
Like:
4 Pieces of Heart = 1 Extra Heart
3 Dolls = 1 Extra Life
Like that?
Precisely. It would make the dolls a much more important discovery plus it wouldn't imo break the game.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 03:06:41 pm
Precisely. It would make the dolls a much more important discovery plus it wouldn't imo break the game.

Interesting idea.  Well, the current Link doll hack is already half-way set up for something like this.  I'd just need to use a second byte in memory that keeps track of Link dolls collected, then adds 1 to the permanent value when you get 3.  So in total, it would use 3 bytes in RAM.  The problem is finding a way to keep track of the link dolls separately from your lives in-game.  It would be a lot of work to make an entirely new number counter, and then to find room for it in the inventory menu...   :o  I could get it working, but might have trouble with creating a whole new counter in the menu.

Trax has done it for his hack, so it is possible.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 18, 2019, 03:14:29 pm
If it is collected like a piece of heart.

And if it acts like a piece of heart.

Replace the sprite with a piece of heart.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on February 18, 2019, 03:19:42 pm
If it is collected like a piece of heart.

And if it acts like a piece of heart.

Replace the sprite with a piece of heart.
Hmm. Heart containers do exist in the game already. Those extend your life bar as opposed to adding a permanent extra life--two different things. I vote to keep them as dolls.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 18, 2019, 03:29:46 pm
Hmm. Heart containers do exist in the game already. Those extend your life bar as opposed to adding a permanent extra life--two different things. I vote to keep them as dolls.

Heart Containers and Pieces of Heart.  But whatever you do, maybe change the sprite to be something less, silly.

Could be something like Crazy Tracey's magic bottle.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 18, 2019, 04:57:54 pm
i almost think an alternate reward for the final leveling up that just a 1-up would be cool

i am not sure what that could be at all. but to max every score and have every life, then get a super reward would be cool.

maybe a (just ideas) something like a tunic color change?, or change the color of his sword, or something visual, or change the HUD to not show levels anymore just "MAX POWER", or something?


also, i still feel like that ugly little "M" sitting there is not a good thing. could it be changed to "Magic" written out and also leave the "L" but changed out to "Life"?

i know that everybody knows Hearts are life, but it seems a little weird for one to be labeled and not the other


and lastly, i LOVE LOVE LOVE the thought of having the level up screen not pop up on it's own. that is really really cool, but are you saying, to get to it, you basically hold start longer when you leave the magic menu? that is a true keeper, i love it.

yeah, i think Left and right to switch between them would be a smidge more natural, like "Z" and "R" switches submenus in OoT. but it would still be fine.

most of these single patches make me want to replay Z2:AoL, but to think of them all together is gonna BE LIT!


---edit---
there was a whole other page that i failed to read before this post, lol. sorry

i think most of us are all for the Doll change tbh. it seems like a screw-up from Nintendo. they should clearly be saved over a save/reset cycle. especially if you had to suicide (losing all dolls) to just save the game.

that would be like giving Mario a mushroom, but then not letting him use it until 8-4. lol


also, Crazy Tracy's bottle, or a bottled fairy item could be cool for newbs. you could make it where you have to go collect it every time to use it? blah, that would ramp up the easy though. effectively doubling your life.

also, did i recall correctly? are hearts added in the game? some enemies drop them? becase changing the life bar to hearts would not really be essential unless you could pick up life hearts?

and, just one more last suggestion, i would slightly (slightly!) alter the square where Bagu lives, to be just a tiny bit different than the surrounding tiles, i always had trouble with this one as a kid, i actually thought it was randomized back then. lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 05:33:20 pm
also, i still feel like that ugly little "M" sitting there is not a good thing. could it be changed to "Magic" written out and also leave the "L" but changed out to "Life"?

i know that everybody knows Hearts are life, but it seems a little weird for one to be labeled and not the other

also, did i recall correctly? are hearts added in the game? some enemies drop them? becase changing the life bar to hearts would not really be essential unless you could pick up life hearts?

The "M" tile is a bit tricky.  It could be reworked into something similar to hearts, but it wouldn't be a truly accurate representation for your magic total.  Then on the other hand, if it stays as a meter, there is an issue with the "active" magic tile, which slides down the meter, going outside of the magic display when empty.  The "M" covers this up so you'd never see this in-game.  Honestly, it will probably just stay that way.  It'd be easy to add some text above the heart gauge that says "-Life-" kinda like in ALttP, but only if there is enough free tiles left for gfx - which there probably aren't, ha ha.  :P

There are no heart pick-ups.  Just a new heart gauge.  This is something that's been desired in Zelda II for a very long time, and although just an aesthetic change, definitely fitting for a Zelda game.  It is quite a change from what were used to in Zelda II, but it works pretty well.

Adding heart drops would be cool.  That's something I can look into.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 05:41:44 pm
Adding heart drops would be cool.  That's something I can look into.  :)

Careful though, that could break the game in half since we have the Life/Heal spell in there :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 05:50:18 pm
Careful though, that could break the game in half since we have the Life/Heal spell in there :P

Ah!  Indeed it would.  Well, that idea was short-lived, ha ha.  Thanks for pointing that out before it was too late!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 18, 2019, 05:59:05 pm
(https://ibb.co/x1gYN61)
here is my (very) shoddy mockup you can see what you think.

https://ibb.co/x1gYN61

heart drops are no biggie, i believe someone mentioned changing to only one size magic jar, and using the other for heart. it's all kind of redundant, because most of the time i get a jar i am using the life spell with it, and it's the same difference, it would just be seamless adding without having to cast the spell,

also, what did you think of changing the Bagu tile slightly?

---edit---
you could make it where a "heart item" just instanlty cast a low level "life" spell

that would actually make the game harder for people who are so good that they never lose life, because now they wouldnt have as much magic. balancing issues are hard, you guys are doing a great job, btw
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 18, 2019, 06:02:21 pm
also, what did you think of changing the Bagu tile slightly?
What exactly do you mean with this?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 18, 2019, 06:05:11 pm
What exactly do you mean with this?

the warp tile that takes you to Bagu, alter the pixels slightly, or maybe mirror it, so Bagu's secret "house" looks slightly different from all the trees around it

you know, maybe just add a tiny visual cue that that tile is special, but also not hardly enough to even notice it
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 18, 2019, 07:34:01 pm
here is my (very) shoddy mockup you can see what you think.

https://ibb.co/x1gYN61

also, what did you think of changing the Bagu tile slightly?

Not sure that mock-up would work.  Definitely not enough space in the HUD to fit that many letters there.  There is a whole row of space at the top that could be utilized, but again, it comes down to how many gfx tiles are available to work with.  Most everything has a purpose, and finding ways to get extra gfx tiles can be quite a challenge.

As for Bagu's tile, it just uses a normal forest tile like any other.  The world map is restricted to 16 unique terrain types, so to give Bagu his own type, another would have to be sacrificed, or the data would have to be expanded to allow more than 16.  It'd be more trouble than it's worth, to be honest.  Trax has done this expansion for his own hack, but the scope of that goes far beyond any Zelda II hack, yet. 

Sorry to crush your ideas like that.  :P  It's just there are many limitations to what can be done without extensive ASM changes to the game.  And expanding things can get tricky.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 18, 2019, 07:54:10 pm
https://ibb.co/n3m8NGC

here was a mock-up for Bagu's house. probably not worth the effort as you say.


https://ibb.co/1v5H5sb

here was an idea for another more streamlined hud, especially if the level up menu is "reachable" at any time, if you wanted to check your levels just go to the menu

---edit--- also do away with the "L" for life in it too
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on February 18, 2019, 09:12:11 pm
im getting bad getaway on the links
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 18, 2019, 09:34:16 pm
my bagu idea
https://imgur.com/HD3lmDJ

trimmed Hud
https://imgur.com/Pp9xco4

sorry about that, i used to post and it would let the pic show in the actual post.

February 19, 2019, 12:28:20 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
i had a kind of neat idea.

if you were standing near the warp tile to Bagu's place and paused the game, when playing it could be a forest tile and when paused if it could be replaced by a town tile.

thats just a rando thought, lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 06:15:48 am
Here is a hack to add a [visual] cap to the life counter in the inventory menu, as well as the counter on the lives remaining splash screen when you die.  You can still gain more than 9 lives, but the counters will only ever display 9 in the menu.  This is to prevent tile oddities when going beyond the counter's limit.

This hack will replace the previous one that displays the inventory menu life counter in decimal rather than hexadecimal.  So remove that one first, because this new one will need more space, and the old code would just be wasted space.



At 0x2172, paste this code:  20 60 AC

At 0x2C70, paste this code:

AD 9E 07 AD 00 07 8D 9E 07 A9 09 CD 9E 07 10 06 A9 0A 8D 9E 07 60 EE 9E 07 AD 9E 07 CE 9E 07 60

This is setting up a new unused byte in RAM at $79E, to act as the visual cap for the counter in the inventory menu - and later on the splash screen.  When the real value of lives ($700) goes to 9, or above, the menu counter will visually stay at 9 by using the value at $79E.  It also displays the counter the correct way in decimal, instead of hexadecimal.



Next, we have to move a portion of the permanent Link doll hack 2 bytes to the left.  We need the extra space, so let's do that first.  If you are using a clean rom, you can skip this part, but for Redux you'll have to do it.

At 0x1E828, paste this code:  20 57 FF

At 0x1FF67, paste this code:  EE 00 07 EE 95 07 60



Finally, is the visual cap for the splash screen life counter.

At 0x1C3E4, paste this code:  20 5E FF

At 0x1FF6E, paste this code:

AD 9E 07 A9 09 CD 00 07 10 01 60 AD 00 07 8D 9E 07 60

As you can see, there wasn't much free space here, but there was enough to fit this new code.  Since we already initialized a byte in RAM ($79E) for the inventory screen, we will use that here, as well.  Like before, if the real value of lives ($700) is at 9, or above, it will load the value at $79E, which has already been capped, and that's it.  If it is below 9 lives, it loads the value at $700, and stores it in $79E.  This is required to keep the values updated between deaths or upon loading the save file.

That's it!  :)


my bagu idea
https://imgur.com/HD3lmDJ

I actually like the "possible #1" design you made.  A single tiny house makes a lot of sense!  :P

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 11:53:13 am
Nice, dude!
Just added the Life cap hack into Redux. :)
So many nice hacks, for sure I will never go back to vanilla Zelda II once this is done, I can tell you that :laugh:

I think all that's left is just the Elimination Mode Up/Down inputs, and Game Over one too, and then Zelda II can be released as a proper hack, alongside all it's optional patches :)


Oh also, I will put some additional info that IcePenguin sent me regarding some title screen changes, just so we have almost all the changes and hacks made to Zelda II Redux documented in this thread:

Here's a thought...  For Shadow of Night, I made a moon for the title screen.  Really adds life to it, I think.  If you want to use it, you totally can!  I added it to show you what is looks like.  If you do add it, the grey color in the mountains work wells with the moon.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/3FV4d8i.png)

If you want to use it, here are the tiles:

(https://i.imgur.com/QIGhm7U.png)

Then go to 0x167D5 and paste:

2F 03 22 28

And at 0x167F5 paste:

2F 05 22 30

I changed the sprite priority so it will appear behind the logo and scroll text.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 19, 2019, 12:01:16 pm
Awesome! I feel one more thing should be added to your list though ShadowOne333.
The death flash. If you removed the flash and made it a plain red screen to people with epilepsy didn't have seizures triggered I feel like that would be a really nice addition too ;)

That title screen and the tiles for the logo look great :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 12:04:17 pm
Awesome! I feel one more thing should be added to your list though ShadowOne333.
The death flash. If you removed the flash and made it a plain red screen to people with epilepsy didn't have seizures triggered I feel like that would be a really nice addition too ;)

That title screen and the tiles for the logo look great :3

I think changes like those were implemented for one of Zelda II's re-releases through Virtual Console.
Although, I can't remember which one implemented them.
I also think those very changes have been documented, if someone find them, be sure to post them so I can take a look at them. Anything that makes Zelda II a more enjoyable experience for everyone is welcome, and changes like this that avoid epilepsy is something worth taking note of.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 12:10:05 pm
Exciting!  Seems to be nearing completion - maybe days!   :woot!:

I did some testing with the game over menu, but it stumps me at every turn.  I'm still very curious what DarkSamus decides to do with the menu, since he showed interest in simplifying them.  The hack he did for the File Select screen was awesome!

Oh, if you want, I can help play test the hack.  Possibly work out any missed bugs, or anything else that pops up.


Awesome! I feel one more thing should be added to your list though ShadowOne333.
The death flash. If you removed the flash and made it a plain red screen to people with epilepsy didn't have seizures triggered I feel like that would be a really nice addition too ;)

Great idea!  I was just thinking about this actually.  Doing a lot of tests with the game over inputs, I had to watch that screen like a million times.   :'( 


February 19, 2019, 12:18:34 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Found the data on the death flashing.

At 0x1C9FA is the palette.  12 16 2A 16

It cycles between 12 blue, 16 red, 2A green, then 16 red.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 12:26:26 pm
I found a hack that apparently removes the flashing:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/740/
This also includes modifying not only the death flash, but also the flashes for when you learn a spell and when you kill a boss.
Can someone test that one out and let me know exactly what it does on those flashes?

I am not too sure about completely removing the flashes though.
I would much rather have it be similar to what the GameCube version did, with flashes of red instead of different colours, like this:
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=771541

(https://www.schnittberichte.com/pics/SBs/200/771541/zelda_gc.gif)

And this is the original for comparison:
Spoiler:
(https://www.schnittberichte.com/pics/SBs/200/771541/zelda_nes.gif)

Shouldn't be too hard to re-implement from scratch, but I know there should be some documentation as to what bytes does the Virtual Console releases change, so we can more easily look into it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 12:32:23 pm
Yikes, put those things in spoilers, ha ha.   :laugh:

Just change the flashing palette at 0x1C9FA to 16 16 06 06.  It will be a subtle flashing between red and dark red.  Doesn't hurt the eyes.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 12:33:42 pm
Yikes, put those things in spoilers, ha ha.   :laugh:

Just change the flashing palette at 0x1C9FA to 16 16 06 06.  It will be a subtle flashing between red and dark red.  Doesn't hurt the eyes.

Look what I found :P
The patches that are applied for the NES Mini.
Reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nesclassicmods/comments/699hgj/nintendo_patches_games_inmemory_even_on_the_nes/

Patches:
http://www.rendezvo.us/nes/nesce_mempatches.zip

The one for Zelda II is called "CLV-P-NAASE.ips".
Could you try applying it over vanilla Zelda II and see what addresses the patch modifies for me, please?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 12:39:49 pm
Here is what it changes:

0x2A00:  02 03 02 03  (darker magic flash)

0x169C8:  ED E1 DE F4 ED E1 E2 EB DD  ("THE THIRD")

0x1C9FA:  35 36 35 36  (Bright pink death flash)

0x1FDF7:  FF (not sure)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 12:45:11 pm
Here is what it changes:

0x2A00:  02 03 02 03

0x169C8:  ED E1 DE F4 ED E1 E2 EB DD

0x1C9FA:  35 36 35 36

0x1FDF7:  FF
Oh so it does modify the flashes!
Nice! :D

0x2A00 and 0x1C9FA seem to be related to flashes.

0x169C8 seems to be a change of text in the Introduction text at the title screen, and 0x1FDF7, I'm not too sure, but I think it changes something related to the tilemapping of a certain tile in the Continue/Save screen.

What about the hack found here:
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/740/

Can you tell me which addresses it changes, please?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 12:49:30 pm
Here is what it changes:

0x2A00:  12 12 12 12  (blue magic flash)

0x1C9FA:  16 16 16 16  (red death flash)

That's it!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 12:51:12 pm
Here is what it changes:

0x2A00:  12 12 12 12  (blue magic flash)

0x1C9FA:  16 16 16 16  (red death flash)

That's it!
Nice!
I'll go for the official ones instead, which should be these ones:
That should cover the seizure-inducing flashes with more toned-down versions, so people who are photo-sensitive can also enjoy this hack without worries :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 01:01:36 pm
0x1C9FA:  35 36 35 36

For this one, I recommend using 05 06 05 06 instead.  It's a dark red.  The official bright pink doesn't really fit well with dying, ha ha.  But either work.  There is no more flashing at least.  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 01:15:38 pm
For this one, I recommend using 05 06 05 06 instead.  It's a dark red.  The official bright pink doesn't really fit well with dying, ha ha.  But either work.  There is no more flashing at least.  :P
I managed to fully replicate the one in the Gamecube version with 07 26 07 26. :)
Try it out, I quite like it!
I think 02 03 02 03 at 0X2A00 is actually quite good for spells and the boss flash, what do you think?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 01:22:35 pm
I managed to fully replicate the one in the Gamecube version with 07 26 07 26. :)
Try it out, I quite like it!
I think 02 03 02 03 at 0X2A00 is actually quite good for spells and the boss flash, what do you think?

Ah, cool!  The flashing is easy on the eyes with the Gamecube palette.  For the magic flashing, if you slightly change it to 02 02 03 03, you'll get a bit more of the flashing effect.  Can't really see it otherwise.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 19, 2019, 03:03:30 pm
God damn you guys work fast. I'd say you're pretty close to a definitive edition of Zelda 2 :3
I might have to redo my lets play haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 05:33:17 pm
Updated the new Exp leveling system.  The original post (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26001.msg370921#msg370921) has details and code for the new changes.  Biggest change is this:

To open the level menu, press UP then START.  This way, you don't have to go into the inventory menu at all, making it way more accessible.  Feel free to spend those Exp at anytime!  Or not at all, if you are feeling dangerous.   8)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DarkSamus993 on February 19, 2019, 05:35:19 pm
Getting there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWoZ7hwtx1Q

The 'copy save' menu is not finished yet, which is I didn't show that off. The copy menu is effectively the 'erase save' menu, but with a flag set to copy data instead of erasing it (also a title bar change so you know what menu you're on).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 19, 2019, 05:44:49 pm
Updated the new Exp leveling system.  The original post (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26001.msg370921#msg370921) has details and code for the new changes.  Biggest change is this:

To open the level menu, press UP then START.  This way, you don't have to go into the inventory menu at all, making it way more accessible.  Feel free to spend those Exp at anytime!  Or not at all, if you are feeling dangerous.   8)

Awesome!
I'll grab the IPS and try it out tomorrow :)
Thanks, bud!

Getting there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWoZ7hwtx1Q

The 'copy save' menu is not finished yet, which is I didn't show that off. The copy menu is effectively the 'erase save' menu, but with a flag set to copy data instead of erasing it (also a title bar change so you know what menu you're on).

Oh wow, it's coming along really nice!
I can see that now the cursor goes into every position, including the empty save files, and that pressing Start on an empty save file, gets you directly into the Register Name screen, which is amazing!
So many details, it's coming off great! :)
Thanks for giving this a try and showing off the results, it's really appreciated!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 19, 2019, 06:14:30 pm
Getting there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWoZ7hwtx1Q

The 'copy save' menu is not finished yet, which is I didn't show that off. The copy menu is effectively the 'erase save' menu, but with a flag set to copy data instead of erasing it (also a title bar change so you know what menu you're on).

Awesome work, DarkSamus!  That menu is 1000x better than the original.  :D


Here is another little thing that could be fixed.  On the title screen, there is a star in the sky that overlaps with the game logo.  This isn't normal behavior for stars in the sky.  This odd star is actually grouped together with stars in the ocean.  An odd little bug that is probably unknown.

(https://i.imgur.com/wCg2o8c.png)

Changing its sprite priority doesn't place it behind the logo, much like the other stars in the ocean.  I believe they have this unique behavior because they are supposed to appear over the tiles in the ocean, which is a different background layer than the sky.

At 0x168C9, this is the data for this star.  If you change the 78 to 90, it will place this star in ocean to be with its other fellow stars.  This would be the most minor of changes, but I thought some people might like to know this little bit of info.  :)

Edit:

There is an error in the title screen text.  There is no space between the "," and the word "CRYSTALS".

"TO BREAK THE SEAL,CRYSTALS"

Edit:

In the bank used for town gfx, the "," to the left of the "?" tile should be blank.  Random commas appear in dialog when talking to NPCs.  This one is my fault.  I accidentally placed it there when adding that smaller font.  Sorry about that!  :P

Edit:

I have a question about Bagu's (Bug's) new text.  He says: "Show this letter to the ferry landing man", so is this more closely in line with the japanese version?  It doesn't really make sense, as there is no indication that the game has a ferry landing - except maybe at Mido, but at this point in the game you wouldn't know about Mido.  I'd suggest something like "Show this letter to a guard at Saria Bridge."  I tested it to make sure it would fit, and you'd need to repoint the line of text to fit the 3 extra characters.  Anyway, makes a lot more sense.

Edit:

Link now has a Blue and Red tunic! Upon using the Shield spell with a Defense level between 1-4, you'll get the Blue tunic. Once you get up to level 5-8 of Defense, you will get the Red tunic

Another bug report:  In your current version, it's set to check Link's sword level, not defense level.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on February 19, 2019, 08:49:12 pm
Getting there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWoZ7hwtx1Q

The 'copy save' menu is not finished yet, which is I didn't show that off. The copy menu is effectively the 'erase save' menu, but with a flag set to copy data instead of erasing it (also a title bar change so you know what menu you're on).
Looking great!  I have a couple of thoughts...

Can you change the palette for the Erase and Copy screens?  Erase would be in shades of Red, Copy maybe Green?  I think this would really emphasise the danger of the Delete screen.

Instead of Copy Save and Erase Save, perhaps change them to Copy File, and Delete File.

I would still change the cursor from the fairy to an animating Arrow.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 20, 2019, 01:01:12 am
Updated the new Exp leveling system.  The original post (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26001.msg370921#msg370921) has details and code for the new changes.  Biggest change is this:

To open the level menu, press UP then START.  This way, you don't have to go into the inventory menu at all, making it way more accessible.  Feel free to spend those Exp at anytime!  Or not at all, if you are feeling dangerous.   8)

AWESOME. this is gonna be my favorite thing yet. it's so pesky to try to level one stat and not the other with it always popping up that i usually go the direct route. this is a godsend! (a icepenguinsend really!)

also, everyone knows button combos arent ideal, but they are better than changing the length the button is held (which is how i understood it to work).

that way my controller wont shut off (from holding start for a few seconds) lol

also, i'm def ready for a playtest, so flippin excited! the ips i downloaded other day had a moon in the sky and altered graphics though, looked real nice, but are the graphical styles gonna be optional patches too?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 20, 2019, 10:41:13 am
@IcePenguin, every little bug you mentioned was fixed :)
The "SEAL,CRYSTALS" one I believe left it in intentionally, because if I add a space between the comma and CRYSTALS, the word "CRYSTALS" would be placed too much to the right, and you could only read it once it gets out of the mountain's view.

With that said, let's touch on a couple details you mentioned:

I have a question about Bagu's (Bug's) new text.  He says: "Show this letter to the ferry landing man", so is this more closely in line with the japanese version?  It doesn't really make sense, as there is no indication that the game has a ferry landing - except maybe at Mido, but at this point in the game you wouldn't know about Mido.  I'd suggest something like "Show this letter to a guard at Saria Bridge."  I tested it to make sure it would fit, and you'd need to repoint the line of text to fit the 3 extra characters.  Anyway, makes a lot more sense.

Interesting point you bring here.
This is the direct translation from the Japanese text that I took as reference:

BAGU IS MY
NAME. SHOW
MY NOTE TO
RIVER MAN.
| オレノナハ バグ ダ
| ワタシバノ オトコニ
| コノテガミヲ ミセロ{END}
| My name is Bug.
| Show this letter to
| the ferry landing man.

I could probably change it to something like "Show this letter to the Saria ferry man." or "to the ferry man in Saria", something similar.
What do you think?

Another bug report:  In your current version, it's set to check Link's sword level, not defense level.

Dumb me, for some reason I swapped the addresses that I had to read.
I'll make the change real quick, thanks for pointing it out!
Should be a matter of changing the LDA $0777 to LDA $0779 at around $2B00 (or somewhere around that, can't recall where I placed that routine)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 20, 2019, 10:52:59 am
Reduced the amount of HP the Bubble (and Giant Bubble) enemies have. Should now go down with like 10 Sword swings instead of a damn million (having FF in their lives was really something stupid for such a meaningless enemy), and they have also been made non-respawnable to avoid abusing grinding of these enemies, since their EXP hasn't been modified.

Something doesn't feel right about this.  I've been playing through the game, testing things, and one thing that stands out as a glaring issue, is how much weaker these Bubble enemies are while still granting the same 50 Exp.  I know they aren't re-spawnable, but there are so many of these enemies in dungeons, that you gain massive amounts of Exp with little effort.  That one room in Palace 1 has like 6 of these enemies.  That's wildly unbalanced.  :P  In the original, only someone willing to spend a few minutes killing those would get that Exp, but now it can be done with ease.

Then there are those Skull enemies, doing that wavy pattern, who are now much stronger, but give less Exp than the Bubble.  I don't think you changed these enemies, but in comparison to the new Bubble, it makes them feel a lot strong with less reward.

These two enemies should be about on par with each other.  I'd suggest increasing the Bubbles health to around the same as the Skull enemy, and give about the same 20 Exp.  A player could still use the Bubbles to grind a ton of Exp just by leaving palace.  Making them not respawn isn't enough to balance their low health.  I suggest making some improvements here.  :)

@IcePenguin, every little bug you mentioned was fixed :)
The "SEAL,CRYSTALS" one I believe left it in intentionally, because if I add a space between the comma and CRYSTALS, the word "CRYSTALS" would be placed too much to the right, and you could only read it once it gets out of the mountain's view.

It works fine on my end.  I did some testing to make sure it wasn't a line space limitation, but the word CRYSTALS appears with no issue.

About Bug's text, that's pretty cool that you used the Japanese version.  I wonder if any other text has mention of the ferry?  Interesting.  :)  I do like this one:  "to the ferry man in Saria."  Just having the town name in there makes it much better.

Edit:

I see you fixed the Shield spell to check Defense.  Cool!  This little hack is nice, I like it a lot.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 20, 2019, 11:49:46 am
Something doesn't feel right about this.  I've been playing through the game, testing things, and one thing that stands out as a glaring issue, is how much weaker these Bubble enemies are while still granting the same 50 Exp.  I know they aren't re-spawnable, but there are so many of these enemies in dungeons, that you gain massive amounts of Exp with little effort.  That one room in Palace 1 has like 6 of these enemies.  That's wildly unbalanced.  :P  In the original, only someone willing to spend a few minutes killing those would get that Exp, but now it can be done with ease.

Then there are those Skull enemies, doing that wavy pattern, who are now much stronger, but give less Exp than the Bubble.  I don't think you changed these enemies, but in comparison to the new Bubble, it makes them feel a lot strong with less reward.

These two enemies should be about on par with each other.  I'd suggest increasing the Bubbles health to around the same as the Skull enemy, and give about the same 20 Exp.  A player could still use the Bubbles to grind a ton of Exp just by leaving palace.  Making them not respawn isn't enough to balance their low health.  I suggest making some improvements here.  :)

Mmmm interesting.
I remember the Bubble and Giant Bubble giving me a lot of troubles, mostly the Giant bubble, because for some reason if I modified its health just a bit much, the Giant bubble won't show up, only the small Bubbles will. So I left his health at just the breaking point where the Giant bubble still appears. I think the Hex value is somewhere around E0 or something like that for his health.

Right now, I left it so the Bubbles of all kind give 30 exp instead of 50, how does that sound for balancing?
If that still doesn't cut it, here are the exact addresses for HP and Experience values for all the Bubble enemies (the ones that say Blue/Orange Skull Head I assume is the one you refer to with the wavy movement):

Code: (Health bytes (Convert to decimal to get the full health value)) [Select]
HP:

Temple A/B
0x011437 - HP for Slow Magic Stealing Skull = FA
0x01143F - HP for Fast Magic Stealing Skull = FA
0x012937 - HP for Slow Magic Stealing Skulls = FA
0x01293F - HP for Fast Magic Stealing Skulls = FA

Great Temple
0x015445 - HP for Slow Magic Stealing Skull = FF
0x015446 - HP for Fast Magic Stealing Skull = FF
0x015448 - HP for Large Magic Stealing Skull = FF


Temple A/B
0x01143B - HP for Blue Skull Head = 38
0x01293B - HP for Blue Skull Head = 08

Great Temple:
0x015447 - HP for Orange Skull Head = 60

For the EXP, only the second nibble of the byte is the one that modifies the Exp:
.... xxxx   Experience Code (0-F)
So for example, you can see that the Bubbles (Magic Stealing Skull) has a value of 87, which means the 7 from it determines its Exp value. So in this case, 7 is the value for giving out 50 Exp. Right now, I changed the 87 to 86 so it gives 30 Exp instead.
You can check the whole table for Exp values in here:
https://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link:Enemy_Data#Enemy_Bits

Code: (EXP bits) [Select]
EXP:
Temple A/B
0x0114EB - Bits for Slow Magic Stealing Skull = 87
0x0114F3 - Bits for Fast Magic Stealing Skull = 87
0x0129EB - Bits for Slow Magic Stealing Skull = 87
0x0129F3 - Bits for Fast Magic Stealing Skulls = 87

Great Temple:
0x0154F9 - Bits for Slow Magic Stealing Skull = C5
0x0154FA - Bits for Fast Magic Stealing Skull = C5
0x0154FC - Bits for Large Magic Stealing Skull = C0


Temple A/B
0x0114EF - Bits for Blue Skull Head = D5
0x0129EF - Bits for Blue Skull Head = CC

Great Temple
0x0154FB - Bits for Orange Skull Head = 55

Let me know if giving the Bubbles 30 Exp is okay, or if I should change something else.

About Bug's text, that's pretty cool that you used the Japanese version.  I wonder if any other text has mention of the ferry?  Interesting.  :)  I do like this one:  "to the ferry man in Saria."  Just having the town name in there makes it much better.

Had to leave it as "Show this letter to the Saria ferry man." due to space limitations. :P
If that still sounds odd, let me know, I think I can move the string somewhere else to have some more room to work with.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Prince Valmont on February 20, 2019, 12:20:01 pm
Had to leave it as "Show this letter to the Saria ferry man." due to space limitations. :P
If that still sounds odd, let me know, I think I can move the string somewhere else to have some more room to work with.

Isn't it usually spelled "ferryman"? By combining that into one word, does it leave you any additional space to adjust?
What about "Show this letter to the Sarian ferryman."?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 20, 2019, 01:08:29 pm
Temple A/B
0x01143B - HP for Blue Skull Head = 38
0x01293B - HP for Blue Skull Head = 08

Temple A/B
0x0114EF - Bits for Blue Skull Head = D5
0x0129EF - Bits for Blue Skull Head = CC

Just have to point out, that this info on datacrystal, for Temple B, is incorrect.  The Blue Skull head HP in Temple Type B (3, 4, 6) is at 0x12940, and its bits are at 0x129F4.

The values that are listed on datacrystal are actually associated with the Riding Blue Iron Knuckle.  The 08 doesn't do anything if I remember correctly, because its HP is located elsewhere, but CC is indeed its bits.  The data structure for enemy HP and bits is not organized very well in the rom, so it's not surprising that there could be some errors.  :P

As for the balance of Bubbles, it might be good to consider the properties of other enemies in deciding the their balance.  The Blue Skull Head, for example, now has more HP than the Bubble, and is definitely more challenging, so shouldn't it have more Exp than a Bubble?  In that case, I'd give Bubbles 10 Exp.  Still sufficient for gaining Exp at low levels due to their quantity, but not totally unbalanced.  As they are now, they are lesser than Ropes or Octoroks, so should offer less Exp.

If the Bubble HP has issues when changing it, it'd be fine to leave as it is, as long as the Exp is balanced sufficiently.  I recommend Bubbles give 20 exp, and then increase the Blue Skull Head to 30 Exp.  Those things are a pain, ha ha.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 20, 2019, 02:14:16 pm
Just have to point out, that this info on datacrystal, for Temple B, is incorrect.  The Blue Skull head HP in Temple Type B (3, 4, 6) is at 0x12940, and its bits are at 0x129F4.

The values that are listed on datacrystal are actually associated with the Riding Blue Iron Knuckle.  The 08 doesn't do anything if I remember correctly, because its HP is located elsewhere, but CC is indeed its bits.  The data structure for enemy HP and bits is not organized very well in the rom, so it's not surprising that there could be some errors.  :P

As for the balance of Bubbles, it might be good to consider the properties of other enemies in deciding the their balance.  The Blue Skull Head, for example, now has more HP than the Bubble, and is definitely more challenging, so shouldn't it have more Exp than a Bubble?  In that case, I'd give Bubbles 10 Exp.  Still sufficient for gaining Exp at low levels due to their quantity, but not totally unbalanced.  As they are now, they are lesser than Ropes or Octoroks, so should offer less Exp.

If the Bubble HP has issues when changing it, it'd be fine to leave as it is, as long as the Exp is balanced sufficiently.  I recommend Bubbles give 20 exp, and then increase the Blue Skull Head to 30 Exp.  Those things are a pain, ha ha.

Ah yeah, just saw that indeed the info in DC was wrong for Temple B.
I did change the D5 to C6 (because enemies should no  longer steal experience), so the Skull head now gives 30 Exp, and the Bubbles I changed the slow ones to 20 Exp, and the fast ones to 30 Exp.
How does that sound?

EDIT:
Modified the Data Crystal page to reflect the proper entries for the Blue skull head and the Riding Blue Iron Knuckle :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 20, 2019, 02:49:29 pm
Ah yeah, just saw that indeed the info in DC was wrong for Temple B.
I did change the D5 to C6 (because enemies should no  longer steal experience), so the Skull head now gives 30 Exp, and the Bubbles I changed the slow ones to 20 Exp, and the fast ones to 30 Exp.
How does that sound?

EDIT:
Modified the Data Crystal page to reflect the proper entries for the Blue skull head and the Riding Blue Iron Knuckle :)

Oh nice, that actually sounds nicely balanced.  I didn't consider there being 2 types of Bubbles, even though it's always been that way, and you just posted the info, ha ha.   :P  That is quite reasonable to give more Exp for the fast ones, since they are more trouble than the slow ones.  Plus, the fast ones are rarer, so not as easily used for grinding.  Good idea!  Those changes along with the increase to the Blue Skull Heads seems perfect!

Edit:

Just to clarify a bit on the Riding Blue Iron Knuckle.  Each of the 2 phases for the boss has separate HP and bits.  Some for the mounted Iron Knuckle and some for the walking Iron Knuckle.  So the bits I mentioned I believe are for the mounted one.  It's all sorts of confusing, and I recall having issues with it in the past.  I've long forgotten exactly how it works, though.


Isn't it usually spelled "ferryman"? By combining that into one word, does it leave you any additional space to adjust?
What about "Show this letter to the Sarian ferryman."?

That is true!  It is spelled "ferryman".  Though I think it could work either way...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 20, 2019, 02:58:54 pm
Oh nice, that actually sounds nicely balanced.  I didn't consider there being 2 types of Bubbles, even though it's always been that way, and you just posted the info, ha ha.   :P  That is quite reasonable to give more Exp for the fast ones, since they are more trouble than the slow ones.  Plus, the fast ones are rarer, so not as easily used for grinding.  Good idea!  Those changes along with the increase to the Blue Skull Heads seems perfect!

Very well then, so it will stay that way :)
Thanks for the feedback.

That is true!  It is spelled "ferryman".  Though I think it could work either way...

I ended up having the line as: "Show this letter to the ferryman in Saria."
Everything brought up to this point should now be in same link as always.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 20, 2019, 03:28:56 pm
I ended up having the line as: "Show this letter to the ferryman in Saria."
Everything brought up to this point should now be in same link as always.

That's a lot better than before.  It uses the Japanese version as its source, but adds more to it.  Very nice!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 20, 2019, 03:52:30 pm
That's a lot better than before.  It uses the Japanese version as its source, but adds more to it.  Very nice!  :)
Oh dude, I forgot to tell you, the New Exp hack (and your other "secret" hack you sent me) will be added as Optional patches into Redux :)
They're just too good hacks to not include them there somehow. I already have them saved up and ready to be zipped once Redux is finished!

Is it okay?
I want to give people the option to choose between the original Exp and the New Exp, and an optional patch is perfect for that.

How is your playthrough going? :P :thumbsup:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, for everyone reading this, can you guys help me out?
I am trying to remember exactly what changes have been put into Redux to add into the OP.
I thought of two this morning I was missing, but completely forgot them by the time I was about to add them lol
If you see something that was added/mentioned and is not on the OP list, please let me know so I can add it to the final list of changes made to the hack!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PowerPanda on February 20, 2019, 04:16:26 pm
This is great. I just patched my rom, and toyed around with the new additions. Well done.

With the hearts for the life meter, is it possible to also have jars for the magic meter? I believe I posted a picture of a mockup I did over on njsoro's original thread.

Also, the ONE thing that I would add to Zelda II, to the point where I almost did a hack myself, would be to change either "Fairy" or "Spell" into "Dash", doubling your movement speed. This was added in the Shadow of Night hack, so I know it's possible. I also did some basic research on this in njsoro's thread, measuring out the jumping distance for no spell, jump, dash, and jump+dash. Basically, you could gate off areas of the game by making pits that have to be jumped over with a jump+dash combo, eliminating the need for either Fairy or Spell. Anyway, one thing that always bothers me in replays is how slowly Link moves when I have to backtrack. Being able to move faster would be a very welcome addition.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 20, 2019, 04:52:55 pm
Oh dude, I forgot to tell you, the New Exp hack (and your other "secret" hack you sent me) will be added as Optional patches into Redux :)
They're just too good hacks to not include them there somehow. I already have them saved up and ready to be zipped once Redux is finished!

Is it okay?
I want to give people the option to choose between the original Exp and the New Exp, and an optional patch is perfect for that.

How is your playthrough going? :P :thumbsup:

Sounds good!  :)  The playthrough is going well.  There are some dialog texts that seems weird to me, but other than that nothing out of the ordinary! 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 21, 2019, 12:37:05 am
So, its been awhile since I checked the OP and wow. There is stuff in there I didn't read about anywhere. Even a blue tunic.. Jeez ShadowOne333, you went all out. Well done man <3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 21, 2019, 07:32:27 am
i think adding a "dash" or "speed" spell would make it feel too much not like Zelda 2 anymore.

that said, i think a "double jump" spell would be cooler than the weird floaty high jump spell.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 21, 2019, 08:31:45 am
I second this. A double jump would be more versatile and would make it feel similar to a metroidvania which would probably be a good thing and suit the battle system while giving the player more control. Maybe turn the fairy spell into something better too. A simple name change and sprite change would do. Maybe a Deku Scrub or something. An owl? I dunno but the fairy seems a bit off and always did. Did the FDS version of King's Tomb make it in? I really do think a grieving prince dropping some booklet exclusive lore would help the game overall. Perhaps feeling bad for falling under the magician's spell or what happened to Zelda and urging the player to head to the eastern continent. There isn't much story but what there is could be strewn around the worlds NPCs to make talking to them worthwhile as plenty have nothing of substance to say.

Aside from that i'm all out of ideas. At this point it'd like polishing something already glowing. Ya done gud son!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 21, 2019, 09:04:09 am
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZHXnpD5.png)

At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0A 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.



Finally, let's remap the tiles for the white cross in towns, so it uses the tomb gfx instead.  The normal tomb is fixed to a Y-axis, like the "dragon" statues, so we can't use that one.

At 0xC4AE, paste this code:  AF B0 B1 B2

This is the tile mapping for the white cross in towns.  Keep in mind, this will change the crosses in Saria town.  So if you want those to stay as crosses, you'll have to remap a different object, instead.  You just need to find an unused object, and remap its tiles to use the gfx for the tomb.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 21, 2019, 10:30:37 am
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.

(https://i.imgur.com/I8HEdrX.png)

At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0D 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.

Oh man that looks awesome!
Even better than I expected!

I just have a little suggestion.
Could the gravestone be the same one as the original? I think you replaced the gravestone with the cross symbol used for Churches in-game. Or is that one also limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 21, 2019, 10:49:18 am
I just have a little suggestion.
Could the gravestone be the same one as the original? I think you replaced the gravestone with the cross symbol used for Churches in-game. Or is that one also limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues?

Those are limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues. (because it's a town scene)  That's why I went with the one used by the church in Mido.  It could be replaced by the generic cross in graveyards, but that's not really fitting for a King.  :P  You could probably get creative with tile editing, and remapping object tiles to get the normal tomb gfx, but I dunno if you would have to end up sacrificing gfx elsewhere.  Stuff like that can get overly complex.

Edit:

Added a possible fix for the tomb.  All you need to do is remap some tiles.  If there is an unused object, or two, you could easily get the tomb and statues back to their original location.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 21, 2019, 11:21:25 am
Those are limited to the Y-axis like the dragon statues. (because it's a town scene)  That's why I went with the one used by the church in Mido.  It could be replaced by the generic cross in graveyards, but that's not really fitting for a King.  :P  You could probably get creative with tile editing, and remapping object tiles to get the normal tomb gfx, but I dunno if you would have to end up sacrificing gfx elsewhere.  Stuff like that can get overly complex.

Ah interesting, so that's why.
I went ahead and tried to look around in the disassembly for possible code that could be related to that, to hopefully add back the statues and the gravestone.

I found this, maybe it's related or not, I'm not 100% sure, but maybe it can help:
https://lemmy.neocities.org/zelda2/bank3_and_7.txt

Code: [Select]
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Gravestone_07                           ;
ldx      #$00                          ; 0xdcb1 $9CA1 A2 00                    ; X = 00
beq      L9CAE                         ; 0xdcb3 $9CA3 F0 09                    ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Tomb_Decoration__Left_08                ;
ldx      #$01                          ; 0xdcb5 $9CA5 A2 01                    ; X = 01
bne      L9CAE                         ; 0xdcb7 $9CA7 D0 05                    ;
bank3_Tile_Codes_for_Gravestone_and_Decorations                                ;
.byt    $95,$96,$97                    ; 0xdcb9 $9CA9 95 96 97                 ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;
bank3_SmallObjectsConstructionRoutines_Tomb_Decoration__Right_09               ;
ldx      #$02                          ; 0xdcbc $9CAC A2 02                    ; X = 02
L9CAE                                                                          ;
lda      $0730                         ; 0xdcbe $9CAE AD 30 07                 ; Position of Object Placement
and      #$0F                          ; 0xdcc1 $9CB1 29 0F                    ; keep bits .... xxxx
ora      #$90                          ; 0xdcc3 $9CB3 09 90                    ; set  bits x..x ....
sta      $0730                         ; 0xdcc5 $9CB5 8D 30 07                 ;; Position of Object Placement
tay                                    ; 0xdcc8 $9CB8 A8                       ;
jsr      bank7_Set_RAM_Address_for_Object0E0F; 0xdcc9 $9CB9 20 44 C9           ;
lda      bank3_Tile_Codes_for_Gravestone_and_Decorations,x; 0xdccc $9CBC BD A9 9C;
sta      (L000E),y                     ; 0xdccf $9CBF 91 0E                    ;
rts                                    ; 0xdcd1 $9CC1 60                       ;
                                                                               ;
; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ;

All I managed to do with the debugger was to pinpoint what routine prints the values to PPU so far :P
I'll keep trying though
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on February 21, 2019, 12:02:54 pm
This is great. I just patched my rom, and toyed around with the new additions. Well done.

With the hearts for the life meter, is it possible to also have jars for the magic meter? I believe I posted a picture of a mockup I did over on njsoro's original thread.

Also, the ONE thing that I would add to Zelda II, to the point where I almost did a hack myself, would be to change either "Fairy" or "Spell" into "Dash", doubling your movement speed. This was added in the Shadow of Night hack, so I know it's possible. I also did some basic research on this in njsoro's thread, measuring out the jumping distance for no spell, jump, dash, and jump+dash. Basically, you could gate off areas of the game by making pits that have to be jumped over with a jump+dash combo, eliminating the need for either Fairy or Spell. Anyway, one thing that always bothers me in replays is how slowly Link moves when I have to backtrack. Being able to move faster would be a very welcome addition.

While technically it's possible to come up with jars for the Magic meter, as Trax mentioned, it's not possible to make them green because of the background colors. They would have to be white if jars were to be used.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 21, 2019, 12:14:23 pm
I'm really gonna strain my brain here because you've already done more then I could have imagined so here we go.

I can't remember which palace but to progress you need to just happen to pass through a hidden wall. A hint for the wall in the palace and maybe an NPC in the town prior talking about hidden passages in walls would be a good option I think. Perhaps on that subject have another NPC talking about Bagu the woodsman north of Saria and maybe another speaking about the people of Kasuto fleeing to the east with some sort of hint to using the flute. While its all well and good that I/we remember these things, new players or people that haven't played it in 20 years might not know/remember what to do as back then a lot of hints were in the booklets rather then NPC dialogs.

I believe Rev Edition also has edited NPC/Enemy/Boss sprites so I don't know if you could use both the Rev Edition, original NES versions and the FDS versions all at once but if you could that I think would help with diversity. I think you may be limited though, i'm not sure.

The FDS also has a different battle theme. Perhaps you could make the Eastern continent use that theme to mix things up a bit?

Rev Edition also changed a few items to resemble more well known items in the Zelda series which might be worth replicating even as an optional patch (hammer = bombs, fireball = boomerang, etc) though I doubt Revility would mind if you just used parts of his hack here.

Lastly, that King's Tomb.. well done IcePenguin! I think keeping it enemy free would be best. A prince sprite would be easy enough to do if space allows it and would be as easy as editing one of the townspersons to have a crown and recoloring them and I dunno, maybe get him to drop a P bag or something after you talk to him and hearing about him being upset at his actions and mentioning the magician having him under a spell. Adding an edited woman sprite to Zelda's resting place as Impa would be an opportunity to elaborate on the lore too. Perhaps have them both as static sprites to save on space or make custom if you wanted to go all out.

Spoiler:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/9/90/Prince_of_Hyrule.png/revision/latest?cb=20090927233717)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/b/b8/Sleeping_Zelda.png/revision/latest?cb=20091012015619)

Even something as simple as this would likely do the job and TBH you could probably just use an unedited woman sprite for Impa
(https://i.imgur.com/jwqDTCV.png)
(I didn't put much effort into these, its just for example. Plus I think you have to keep within a limited palette?)

Aside from that.. I don't know.. maybe change the weird little elf creature before Shadow Link with the Triforce piece into.. I dunno, something that makes sense. You could probably alter the story to make the magician that the Prince was friends with into Agahnim/Shadow of Ganon and have him not die and instead have him become or create Shadow Link at end game? Maybe even use the FDS Carock sprite and either recolor it or the boss Carock to differentiate between the two further. I guess you should probably remove the corner exploit on Shadow Link too if you haven't already. I think having a double jump, extra lives and everything else should be enough handholding to make the boss fight much more doable without the exploit.

And that's it. I'm tapped dry on ideas and suggestions. This hack has far exceeded expectations and you guys should be proud of what you've accomplished. If any of my ideas seem doable, go for it. If they're not doable or not worth the effort, forget em. At the end of the day, this is already a definitive edition of Zelda 2 <3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Jeville on February 21, 2019, 03:36:05 pm
I can't remember which palace but to progress you need to just happen to pass through a hidden wall. A hint for the wall in the palace and maybe an NPC in the town prior talking about hidden passages in walls would be a good option I think.
There is that in the game already: "THE PALACE HAS A FALSE WALL." A player can walk against the hinted wall and wouldn't know it's false without doing a jump though. Maybe change it to not require a jump?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on February 21, 2019, 05:50:43 pm
I'm satisfied with this patch as it currently stands. The only suggestion I could think to add is perhaps revert the tektites to be killable without using the Fire spell, like they were in the FDS version. That would bring them more in line with tektites in all the other Zelda games. Besides, I imagine that making them only vulnerable to fire in the NES version was an attempt to make the Fire spell more useful, but this hack already addresses that by increasing that spell's speed and range.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 21, 2019, 06:39:30 pm
ShadowOne, what is that ASM reference you've been using recently? It seems like an assembler-compatible version of all my notes. It's almost a theft of my work, and it's very hard to read, with lots of punctuation and lowercase hex. I recognize many of my own comments in there. I don't agree with that.

About the jump and change of the maps, what I'm seeing is that this hack seems to have no defined boundaries as to what it aims to be. I've said that in the past about another hack (or maybe it was this one). It's not that I'm against improvements, but if you are going to call it "Redux", then maybe it should be just that. If you start playing with game physics and maps, well then after a while it will start being more and more a separate game, rather than bits of improvements of the original here and there. That's my own view.

Also, about the gravestones. In Towns, the Cross object is a "Small Object", code 0x0A, so it has both X and Y positions. The Gravestone, however, for some reason, is a Special Y Object, and is always placed at Y = 9 (third row from the bottom), as it is set arbitrarily in code. You can change this value, but all other objects will follow that change as well. The other Special Y Objects are the Portals and Walls (left and right), Fireplace, Fountain, Sign and Tomb Decorations (left and right). Some ASM could make the Gravestone a Small Object and give us the option of deciding the Y position.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 21, 2019, 06:58:34 pm
ShadowOne, what is that ASM reference you've been using recently? It seems like an assembler-compatible version of all my notes. It's almost a theft of my work, and it's very hard to read, with lots of punctuation and lowercase hex. I recognize many of my own comments in there. I don't agree with that.

Can't tell if it's a joke or not, but just in case it isn't, it's of the very same disassembly you made, and the one we've been using and referencing since the beginning of the hack, and it will be credited properly once the hack is done. I think even you have referenced it before in this very thread. I did a copy-paste of a portion of the disassembly which might help with our current objective. Still though, if there's something you don't want me referencing, let me know and I will avoid doing so.
And if it was a joke, I still just wanted to make things clear to be sure :p

Thanks for your comments, I do appreciate them.
And while we have done some pretty heavy changes, some will be optional, while the current one is an attempt to restore the FDS King's Tomb room into the NES version.
This hack will also attempt to bring back or uncensor changes which were done to the NES version, and while I have tackled most of them before, this one was still one I wanted to try and see if it was possible.

Thanks again for your feedback, Trax!

I'm satisfied with this patch as it currently stands. The only suggestion I could think to add is perhaps revert the tektites to be killable without using the Fire spell, like they were in the FDS version. That would bring them more in line with tektites in all the other Zelda games. Besides, I imagine that making them only vulnerable to fire in the NES version was an attempt to make the Fire spell more useful, but this hack already addresses that by increasing that spell's speed and range.

That one's easy, is a simple one byte change in a couple addresses, I think it's just a matter of removing one bit from their attribute table, and that's it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EDIT:

I noticed that during the side-scrolling areas with enemies, the comma is still loaded in tile ID 9C.
The towns seem to have it in the same place as well.

So, I wanted to ask... Is the comma used anywhere during side-scrolling combat areas?
If it is not, I'd like to replace it with the arrow which gets loaded in tile ID 32 during towns, and put the comma in 32, and the arrow at 9C, so I can use the arrow for the Spell and Level-Up menus.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 22, 2019, 01:59:57 pm
Pretty sure that comma isn't used anywhere.  I can't think of any place that has dialog except for towns, so it seems like a suitable tile for the arrow!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on February 22, 2019, 02:03:31 pm
Here is a hack to make the King's Tomb resemble the much better FDS version.  For those that don't know the difference between FDS and NES version, here is a link so you can see them:

https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#The_King.27s_Tomb

Now, it wasn't possible to make an [exact] replica, just because of the restrictions on gfx, and which tilesets are possible in town scenes vs. environment scenes.  Since the NES King's Tomb is a town scene, it uses a tileset for towns.

Here is an image showing a new King's Tomb.  It closely resembles the FDS version, but keeps the special gfx of the NES version.  Those little "dragon" statues.  They are fixed to Y-axis and can't be moved up and down, so I left them at the edge of the screens.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZHXnpD5.png)

At 0xC5AB, paste this code:  D0 8B

At 0xC629, paste this code:  55 73

At 0xCBE0, paste this code:

24 60 A0 29 F5 09 A0 F1 D4 81 DA 82 53 E3 52 E3 52 E3 83 F6 73 0A 56 E3 52 E3 52 E3 D4 81 DA 80 A2 F1 F1 08 FF 0D 54 8D 37 06 7E 04 7B 04 73 C4 76 C4

What we did here is change the pointer for level data and enemy data to some free space, allowing more detail and enemies.



Finally, let's remap the tiles for the white cross in towns, so it uses the tomb gfx instead.  The normal tomb is fixed to a Y-axis, like the "dragon" statues, so we can't use that one.

At 0xC4AE, paste this code:  AF B0 B1 B2

This is the tile mapping for the white cross in towns.  Keep in mind, this will change the crosses in Saria town.  So if you want those to stay as crosses, you'll have to remap a different object, instead.  You just need to find an unused object, and remap its tiles to use the gfx for the tomb.

Screen 56 which is hidden just southwest of King's Tomb is exactly the same as the FDS version of King's Tomb.

"THE PALACE HAS A FALSE WALL." message refers to the hidden wall in the Island Palace (palace 5) that leads to a key, so you can get the Flute.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 22, 2019, 02:20:51 pm
As far as the crosses go, I believe dungeons have unused spike objects so that may be useable for extra sprites.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PowerPanda on February 23, 2019, 02:41:39 pm
i think adding a "dash" or "speed" spell would make it feel too much not like Zelda 2 anymore.

that said, i think a "double jump" spell would be cooler than the weird floaty high jump spell.

Having played Shadow of Night, I can say it fits in very well with the existing spells. It's a stat buff, just like Jump, Shield, Fire, and Reflect. It's actually really fun to play with.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: dACE on February 23, 2019, 04:02:00 pm
I think ’double jumps’ is the laziest/stupidest feature you could include in a game.

/dACE
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Timbo on February 23, 2019, 05:21:43 pm
I think ’double jumps’ is the laziest/stupidest feature you could include in a game.

/dACE

You know what's worse? A poorly implemented, difficult to control, hi-jump.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 23, 2019, 05:31:04 pm
You know what's worse? A poorly implemented, difficult to control, hi-jump.
This  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 23, 2019, 06:55:35 pm
The high jump is just a temporary modification of the initial Y velocity of the jump. Everything else, including gravity, stays the same.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 23, 2019, 08:25:09 pm
Double jump is a standard ability in many metroidvanias and while Zelda 2 isn't a true metroidvania, it's pretty damn close. A double jump would just give more versatility to the players ability to fight. Especially against Fokkas in the final palace. I don't think it would make it necessarily easy but the high jump has one use really whereas a double jump could be used in many places.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 24, 2019, 04:07:28 pm
i would rather "learn" double jump from a move tutor and it not even cost magic, and re-lable the "Jump" spell "Moonjump"

so if you cast "Moonjump" and knew how to double jump, you could double moon jump.

as it is, i never use Jump, except when i have to.

this would make it totally optional in game and still have both variants.

if you want traditional, dont talk to the move tutor. just like you can play with or without up/down thrust.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: dACE on February 25, 2019, 07:24:15 am
It's just the nonsensical nature of double-jumps that makes them off putting.
And that many piss-poor platformers implemented them because it made an easy upgrade to implement.

/dACE
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on February 25, 2019, 08:55:20 am
More nonsensical then turning into a fairy or shooting fireballs? Fair enough if you don't like them but its a useful mechanic in many many games
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on February 25, 2019, 10:59:48 am
This is getting fairly outside the scope of Redux, don't you all think?

I should have time in the next few weeks to power through the whole game! I'll be happy to post full opinions then.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 25, 2019, 02:22:35 pm
How are the final updates going?  Seems most of everything you planned is complete.  :)  I suppose the last thing is the menu controls?  It'll be awesome to see what DarkSamus does.  That preview he showed of the menu was great.  Let me know if there is anything left that I can help with!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DarkSamus993 on February 25, 2019, 02:28:18 pm
How are the final updates going?  Seems most of everything you planned is complete.  :)  I suppose the last thing is the menu controls?  It'll be awesome to see what DarkSamus does.
I took a break the past several days, so there's still some work to be done. I'll be starting back in on it today or tomorrow. Things are moving along smoothly.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 26, 2019, 09:42:59 am
I took a break the past several days, so there's still some work to be done. I'll be starting back in on it today or tomorrow. Things are moving along smoothly.

Ah, cool!  I can't wait to see it.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 26, 2019, 10:21:02 am
Sorry for my absence :P
Indeed, I believe it's only the menu stuff left to be done to be fully done with Redux :)

I took my time to try to polish the ending sequence of the game.
I worked on this yesterday:

(https://i.imgur.com/AGPxKMh.png)

I managed to get the full credits with the real developer names in the credits. :)
Now it feels like a really polished game thanks to that change lol

Only thing is that I couldn't get the "STAFF" letters to be centered.
If I move them to the right a bit, the last letters don't disappear by the time the triforce appears on screen with the "THANKS A MILLION" message.

The tilemapping part for the STAFF letters is at
0x15068 $9058 21 CB 05 60 61 62 63 63
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 26, 2019, 05:07:35 pm
oh pretty, i kinda like the look of "Staff" being a little off center. gives it a nice presentation, if you ask me.

and i love that the real programmers and developers are getting credit now!  good on them! (and you) so much!!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 02:31:53 pm
Only thing is that I couldn't get the "STAFF" letters to be centered.
If I move them to the right a bit, the last letters don't disappear by the time the triforce appears on screen with the "THANKS A MILLION" message.

The tilemapping part for the STAFF letters is at
0x15068 $9058 21 CB 05 60 61 62 63 63

Will you show an image?  I don't remember the ending sequence all that well.  You might have to move the "THANKS A MILLION" text, as well, so it will cover the new position of the "STAFF" text.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 02:44:21 pm
Will you show an image?  I don't remember the ending sequence all that well.  You might have to move the "THANKS A MILLION" text, as well, so it will cover the new position of the "STAFF" text.

It's something really minimal to be honest.
Here's some images, I changed the tilemap of the "STAFF" letters from 21 CB 05 to 21 CD 05 at 0x15068.

                 Centered STAFF text                                 STAFF text disappears          Triforce appears, but FF from STAFF is still there
(https://i.imgur.com/e7JlrOG.png) (https://i.imgur.com/fU8DWox.png) (https://i.imgur.com/qNZRzaW.png)

I don't think moving the THANKS A MILLION text could help here, since the STAFF text is handled by an entirely different routine I believe. Somewhere around 0x15000 for sure since that's where the text is being read from.
It can be left as it was originally and it wouldn't be an issue, since I already have all the new credits working with the full names in there. I just wanted to make it a little bit more stylized by centering the STAFF, but it's okay as it is :P

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:
Oh I think I fixed it.
At 0x1517E you have [21 CB 45 F4 FF], changing that to [21 CD 45 F4 FF] alongside the change at 0x15068 with [21 CD 05] seems to have done it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 02:55:12 pm
Does the data at 0x1517E do anything?  21 CB 45 F4  Just from looking at it, it appears this bit of code draws 5 tiles (F4) to cover up the "STAFF" text.  Check it out, let me know!

I don't have an easy way to test the ending sequence, but I'll look into it more if you need.

Edit:
Ah, I see you fixed it.  Cool!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 03:01:49 pm
Does the data at 0x1517E do anything?  21 CB 45 F4  Just from looking at it, it appears this bit of code draws 5 tiles (F4) to cover up the "STAFF" text.  Check it out, let me know!

I don't have an easy way to test the ending sequence, but I'll look into it more if you need.

Edit:
Ah, I see you fixed it.  Cool!  :)

Yep haha :P
Just a few mins before you posted.
That went quite smoothly, I'm happy with the results.

I can almost taste the final release :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 03:07:59 pm
What did you decide for King's Tomb?

Final release is soon!  The rush of updates and improvements has calmed down recently, so I imagine there is nothing left to be done.  I'm excited to see the new menu DarkSamus creates!  If you can think of anything else you'd like done, just let me know and I'll see if I can help.  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 03:11:02 pm
What did you decide for King's Tomb?

Final release is soon!  The rush of updates and improvements has calmed down recently, so I imagine there is nothing left to be done.  I'm excited to see the new menu DarkSamus creates!  If you can think of anything else you'd like done, just let me know and I'll see if I can help.  ;)
I made it an Optional patch :)
I have like 7 optional patches now lol

Thanks!
And yeah I'm really intrigued on what methods DarkSamus uses for the new menu stuff.
As for anything I might like to get done, I can't think of anything at the moment to be honest.

I'm really happy with the final result right now.
All I can ask for right now is to simply playtest the hell out of it :)
As soon as I update stuff, I update the patch in the OP as well, so if you guys want to get the latest beta, OP is the place!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 03:17:21 pm
Wow, 7 optional patches?  That's a lot, ha ha.  Well, people love more options, so that's good!  :P  What are all those patches?  I can only think of 1 or 2 I helped with.  Might be good to list them all so people know what the hack offers.

Also, are all the optional patches compatible?  They don't conflict or overwrite any other data?

I just grabbed the latest version and will do some more play testing!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 03:43:55 pm
Wow, 7 optional patches?  That's a lot, ha ha.  Well, people love more options, so that's good!  :P  What are all those patches?  I can only think of 1 or 2 I helped with.  Might be good to list them all so people know what the hack offers.

Also, are all the optional patches compatible?  They don't conflict or overwrite any other data?

As far as I know, they shouldn't overwrite other data.
Still though, it would be nice to check beforehand, you can get them all here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d2iyb368nt409x8/AACaS0GW4RT0S3bMZ8LXUJ25a?dl=0

Do you have a way to check if they conflict between each other and/or with Redux?

As for the list of the Optional Patches and what they do, here:

Let me know if I missed one detail in one of them or something so I can add it to their description!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 05:11:04 pm
You can try the "Patch Checker" utility.  It will find if there is any overlap between patches.

https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1080/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 05:31:46 pm
You can try the "Patch Checker" utility.  It will find if there is any overlap between patches.

https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1080/
Well I did check them all separately against Redux, and also compared them between each other, they all seemed to give 100% compatibility between each other in my tests, so they should be good.
If someone wants to double check, be my guest :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 05:38:58 pm
I was about to edit this into my previous post, then you posted!

The "RestartSameAtScreenGameOver.ips" patch also includes the "KeepExpAtGameOver.ips" patch.  I suppose that could be mentioned in the description.  They both save your Exp upon game over, but this was intended in the original hack.  :P

One thing you should test:  Apply the restart at same screen hack, and see if njosro's restart in palace hack still works.  Those 2 hacks might have some conflicts.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 05:44:56 pm
I was about to edit this into my previous post, then you posted!

The "RestartSameAtScreenGameOver.ips" patch also includes the "KeepExpAtGameOver.ips" patch.  I suppose that could be mentioned in the description.  They both save your Exp upon game over, but this was intended in the original hack.  :P

Ah good to know, I will add that to the ReadMe of the hack. Thanks!

One thing you should test:  Apply the restart at same screen hack, and see if njosro's restart in palace hack still works.  Those 2 hacks might have some conflicts.

I think the Redux hack already has njosro's restart at palace hack included, so if it were to collide with it, it would have said something about incompatibility, but I got 100% compatibility between all of them I think.
Would you please double check just to be sure?
I am already out of work to test it myself :/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 05:49:28 pm
Sure, I'll test it.  Also, something you could add to the description of the "StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips" patch is that it's to prevent wasting Exp by placing the crystal.  That was the main issue some people had with the crystals is wasting a ton of Exp.   Say you had 6000/9000 exp, then you placed a crystal, that 6000 essentially went to waste.

I'll report after I test njosro's restart hack with mine.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 27, 2019, 05:51:29 pm
Thank you, Ice Penguin :)
It's appreciated.

I am working right now on making the "ReadMe.txt" file that will go alongside Zelda II Redux, this is what I have so far.
If I'm missing anything (specially in contributions), please let me know to add it!

Quote from: Zelda II Redux ReadMe
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            ZELDA 2 REDUX
            by ShadowOne333
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you always tried to play through Zelda II and finding out it was either excruciatingly difficulty, unbalanced, too tough or perhaps found that it just has so many quirks that doesn't make the game enjoyable?

This hack tries to address that by rebalancing the game, making some QoL changes and also some visual flare into the game, without compromising the original game's design. Be sure to check the full Changelog inside the ReadMe.txt file for the full list of changes made to this hack, and also don't forget to check the optional patches too!

Want to see the full development of the hack?
Follow it on the Romhacking.net thread:
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26001.msg353908#msg353908

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            COLLABORATORS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Trax - For his amazing disassembly of Zelda 2 which helped with a ton of stuff, and also for a lot of feedback and help in the development of this hack.
* njosro - For his Zelda 2 editor and help towards some hacks for Redux, like the Restart in Palace hack and also the restoration of the Erdrick line.
* IcePenguin - For his incredible and consistent help with a lot of ASM hacks and other nifty stuff. He also helped with a bunch of the Optional patches.
* DarkSamus993 - For his ASM dark magic regarding the Menus revamp for Redux.
* All other users that gave their feedback on possible ways to improve the game over the thread, and those that gave insightful ideas.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            CHANGELOG
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Changes to the Life Meter HUD: Should have hearts now instead of the old bars it had for a life meter
* Reworked HUD to be more in-line with other Zelda titles. It also looks much better to the eye now and is more streamlined
* Added 1/4 heart gauge by IcePenguin. Now the life meter is reduced by 1/4 parts instead of the original sliding bar, effectively letting you know exactly how much health (no longer will the meter show no life with Link still alive)
* Reworked title screen. Now the Sword in it is the same as the one in the original boxart, and also the scrolling text of the title screen has been entirely rewritten to be more in-line with the canon story of Zelda II
* Manual Save Feature: You can now save the game by Pausing and then pressing Up+A on the Pause screen (both in side-scroll pause and overworld pause!)
* Manual saves no longer count towards the Death counter in the Selection screen! Now only Game Overs should increment that counter
* Implemented @njosro's Restart in Current Palace patch (as a bonus) :P
* Link now has a Blue and Red tunic! Upon using the Shield spell with a Defense level between 1-4, you'll get the Blue tunic. Once you get up to level 5-8 of Defense, you will get the Red tunic
* Text boxes now print 6 lines, giving much more space for more and detailed text
* All text has been repointed
* Script has been rewritten entirely and revised with a more proper translation according to the Japanese text
* Enemies no longer steal experience from you. (Don't confuse this with Magic, some still steal magic)
* Reduced the amount of HP the Bubble (and Giant Bubble) enemies have, as well as their Exp. Should now go down with like 10 Sword swings instead of a damn million (having FF in their lives was really something stupid for such a meaningless enemy), and they have also been made non-respawnable to avoid abusing grinding of these enemies, since their low EXP could still be abused.
* Reduced the amount of magic consumption by half for all levels
* More common enemy drops
* All enemies give out Exp
* Enemies rebalanced according to their strength and annoyance factor (Those Modafokkas are no joke)
* Dragon Quest reference restored in the crosses of Saria Town (Erdrick lies here)
* Link's sprite has been edited slightly to better reflect his official artwork, without compromising his original design
* Overworld tile animation (includes water animation, grass, River Devil and others)
* "Spell" and "Life" spells renamed to "Enigma" and "Heal" spells respectively
* Reworked Pause Pane for the Spell menu and also for the Level Up Menu
* Changed the speed and range of the beam/fireball. Now it should have more use in-game, rather than being a slow and rather unused feature
* You can now cast whatever spell you have selected multiple times without having to open up the Spell menu everytime between screens
* Pausing the game on the Overworld now gives a "PAUSE!" message right above Link, like in the GBA port.
* Picking up a Link Doll now adds a life to the total amount of lives you start the game with (restart), making the Link Dolls more useful instead of just having its benefits present until you hit a game over.
* Life counter caps at 9, but you can still gather more lives via the 9000 Exp method, the counter simply won't go past 9.
* Changed the font size to better accommodate the new changes
* Changed the "-" in the file select alphabet to "/"
* Cursor in the "Register Your Name" screen no longer covers portion of the text box
* D-Pad Up and Down now control the cursor in the File Selection and Elimination mode menus
* Modified the flashes when Link dies and when you learn a spell to be closer to the NGC version (Epilepsy free!)
* Rewritten Credits for all the Staff members, now you have the proper names of the developers that made Zelda II, instead of pseudonyms

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            OPTIONAL PATCHES

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* FDSKingsTomb.ips          - This patch restores the layout of the King's Tomb screen to resemble that of the Famicom release of Zelda II.

* KeepExpAtGameOver.ips         - Like its name says, this patch will make it so that even if you get a Game Over, you will keep the Exp you gained.

* NewExp.ips             - A completely revamped Exp system courtesy of IcePenguin! This system makes it so that you will no longer get the Level Up window prompt once you reach the required Exp for a new level. Instead, Experience points will now accumulate, and once you want to Level Up a certain ability, pressing Up+Start will automatically bring up the Level Up menu, even if you don't have enough Exp for a level up. In that case, the only available option will be "Cancel".

* OriginalLinkDolls.ips         - As the name implies, this restores the functionality of the Zelda II Link dolls to be the same as in the original Zelda II, meaning they won't be permanent lives anymore.

* RestartSameAtScreenGameOver.ips   - This patch makes it so that when you get a Game Over, you restart in the same screen that you died on, instead of being brought back to the beginning of the current palace or Zelda's Palace in the case of the overworld.
This patch already includes the "KeepExpAtGameOver.ips" hack into it.

* StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips      - At the end of each palace, where you put the crystal into it, you used to get an undefined amount of Exp, until you leveled up. This patch was made to prevent wasting Exp by placing the crystal, now each crystal put into a palace gives you a determined amount of Exp:
Palace 1 = 500 exp
Palace 2 = 1000 exp
Palace 3 = 1500 exp
Palace 4 = 2000 exp
Palace 5 = 2500 exp
Palace 6 = 3000 exp

* Secret.ips            - ???
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 06:05:47 pm
I'll report after I test njosro's restart hack with mine.  :)

Just tested it, and it works fine.   :thumbsup: 

Nice ReadMe!  Clean and easy to follow.  For a readme, there is nothing worse than opening it, and discover that it has no format to it - no line breaks, massive paragraphs, etc.  So great job!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on February 27, 2019, 06:48:47 pm
I am working right now on making the "ReadMe.txt" file that will go alongside Zelda II Redux, this is what I have so far.
If I'm missing anything (specially in contributions), please let me know to add it!

Perhaps alter the description of the sword on the title screen to specify that it now looks like the sword on the original US box art. When I read "original" box art I assume you're talking about the FDS release.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 27, 2019, 08:19:59 pm
Doing another play through, testing things, and possibly finding stuff to improve.

I have some criticism toward the new dialog.  While this isn't a big issue, it just seems weird to me some of the new lines of dialog.  Given that you re-pointed text for more room, have extra lines, etc., it would seem natural to improve on the game's original lines by writing more coherent sentences - while staying true to its original meaning.  There are many times where I think the original text would've been better, or the attempt for improvement was a bit lacking.  A couple of examples are when learning the Jump spell and Fire spells.

Redux:
"GO AND LEARN THE JUMP MAGIC."

Original:
"WITH THIS YOU CAN JUMP VERY HIGH."

or

Redux:
"MAKE YOUR SWORD SHOOT FIRE."

Original:
"THIS MAGIC WILL MAKE YOUR SWORD SHOOT FIRE."

Also, this may seem kinda nit-picky, but I think you should take into consideration how dialog is printed within the text box.  Having uneven spacing, or sacrificing punctuation to fit words in a limited space, doesn't feel polished.  Anyway, I think a lot of the dialog could still use some work.  ;)


February 28, 2019, 12:17:53 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Here is another QoL hack.  :)

This one makes Saria Bridge automatically draw when you enter the screen.  No more need to always talk to the guards.  You still need to talk to the guard at least once, though!

Now, to get this hack to work properly, I had to add a bridge to the left side of the map.  This may determine if you use this or not, but I'll explain why it was needed.

Since the guard's bridge can now draw from much farther away, due to its new automatic nature, it would also draw a copy of the bridge at the location of the new bridge.  (this is because of Link's X-position when entering from the left)  This is not a bug in this hack, it's just the way this bridge works.  Even trying to move the bridge in the vanilla game will produce similar results.

Here is an image of the bridge I added.  It's the same size and position as the guard's bridge, but located in page 01 instead of page 03.  Then I moved the bushes over to the right a little bit.  Just so you know, the new bridge is a normal bridge like any other.  It doesn't move.

Image:
(https://i.imgur.com/PAHdNHx.png)

Next, here is the code:

At 0x17B4, paste this code:  20 90 AC  (this location is for Redux, anyone else wanting to implement this for their hack will have to find another location to insert this code.

At 0x2836, replace 8D 96 07 with:

20 00 AD



At 0x2CA0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A9 00 CD 96 07 F0 39 A9 02 CD 96 07 F0 32 A9 04 CD 96 07 F0 2B A9 06 CD 96 07 F0 24 A9 10 CD 96 07 F0 1D A9 12 CD 96 07 F0 16 A9 14 CD 96 07 F0 0F A9 16 CD 96 07 F0 08 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF A9 01 CD 9D 07 D0 25 A9 06 CD 61 05 D0 1E A9 00 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 02 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 01 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 60

At 0x2D10, paste this code:  8D 96 07 A9 01 8D 9D 07 60



At 0xCA8C, replace F8 15 E2 00 6C 22 with:

F4 67 FF 15 6D 22

This bit of code here is the level data.  F8 15 is the bushes.  E2 00 is the skip.  6C 22 is the roof on the left guard house.  For the new data, F4 67 is the new bridge, FF 15 is the same bushes, but moved to the right, etc.  Technically, no objects were added to the scene, just repurposed the "skip" object.

Finally, at 0x1C206, replace 90 with 30.



Here is a quick explanation on how Saria Bridge works.  When you have the letter, and talk to the guard, a bit is set at RAM address $796.  This is also used by the down stab and up stab.  After the bridge draws, the bit set by the guard is cleared, making it so you have to talk to the guard every time.  Unfortunately, it wasn't as simple as keeping this bit set, so I came up with an alternate solution.

Here is how this hack works.  After the bridge draws, the bit at $796 is cleared, like normal, but now it also stores 01 into a new unused address in RAM at $79D.  With this new variable and the right conditions, the game knows to set the bit to draw the bridge as soon as you enter this screen.  A few conditions had to be put into place for this to work, otherwise the bit wouldn't set automatically.

I hope you like it!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on February 28, 2019, 01:17:52 am
Wow, just looking at the list posted by ShadowOne, it really feels like a lot of work has been done. Many details that add up nicely. We've come a long way, my friends.

By the way, for your information, the PPU Macro [21 CD 45 F4 FF] contains a repeater byte. Bytes 21 CD are the PPU address, as usual, then 45 is the value 5 with bit 6 set, which means repeat the next byte as many times. FF is the end byte. It's more compact, and less wasteful, than having the sequence F4 F4 F4 F4 F4. Also, bit 7 of the repeater byte controls whether you want your tiles sequence drawn horizontally (bit clear) or vertically (bit set).
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 28, 2019, 10:56:32 am
Thanks for that, IcePenguin!
I didn't even remember that bridge xD

Just for clarification, address 0x17B0 up to 0x17CF should look like this, right?

20 00 B1 EA 20 90 AC EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA
EA EA EA EA EA EA 4C 0E 97 F8 02 A2 01 AD B9 97

With the [20 90 AC] should be added after the first EA, correct?

Also, thanks for the feedback on the text!
If it's not much to ask, if you find any odd sounding text throughout the game, please let me know about it so I can reword it better. :)
As for the uneven spacing and punctuation changes, I think there's not that many of them, but if you do find some which could be improved, let me know as well, I'm all up for improving the text in any possible way. :)

Wow, just looking at the list posted by ShadowOne, it really feels like a lot of work has been done. Many details that add up nicely. We've come a long way, my friends.

By the way, for your information, the PPU Macro [21 CD 45 F4 FF] contains a repeater byte. Bytes 21 CD are the PPU address, as usual, then 45 is the value 5 with bit 6 set, which means repeat the next byte as many times. FF is the end byte. It's more compact, and less wasteful, than having the sequence F4 F4 F4 F4 F4. Also, bit 7 of the repeater byte controls whether you want your tiles sequence drawn horizontally (bit clear) or vertically (bit set).

Thank you, Trax! :D
It's too much appreciated!
Also, thanks for the explanation regarding the PPU Macro for [21 CB 45 F4 FF], really helps to know how it works and why it printed out sequential F4s without having all 5 of them specified. This could really help for other places as well, right now the main use I can think of it is in the credits names, since I had to use a lot of F4s to clear out an entire row of text so they didn't overlap as they appear.
I'll try that on the credits in the meanwhile, thanks for everything!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 28, 2019, 11:17:31 am
Thanks for that, IcePenguin!
I didn't even remember that bridge xD

Just for clarification, address 0x17B0 up to 0x17CF should look like this, right?

20 00 B1 EA 20 90 AC EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA EA
EA EA EA EA EA EA 4C 0E 97 F8 02 A2 01 AD B9 97

With the [20 90 AC] should be added after the first EA, correct?

Also, thanks for the feedback on the text!
If it's not much to ask, if you find any odd sounding text throughout the game, please let me know about it so I can reword it better. :)
As for the uneven spacing and punctuation changes, I think there's not that many of them, but if you do find some which could be improved, let me know as well, I'm all up for improving the text in any possible way. :)

Yeah, that's correct.  There needed to be an insertion point for the new code, so the game would recognize it, and the 1/4 heart hack was a simple choice for the job.  This could've been done in many different ways, but this works perfectly fine.

I'll do another play though specifically focusing on dialog, and anything I feel could use some improvement, I'll post back to let you know.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 28, 2019, 11:28:35 am
Redux:
"GO AND LEARN THE JUMP MAGIC."

Original:
"WITH THIS YOU CAN JUMP VERY HIGH."


Redux:
"MAKE YOUR SWORD SHOOT FIRE."

Original:
"THIS MAGIC WILL MAKE YOUR SWORD SHOOT FIRE."

Already modified the JUMP spell line :)
Should now be closer to the original "WITH THIS SPELL, YOU CAN JUMP VERY HIGH."

Also, dude for the second one it was a wrong pointer, I had [8F AE] as the pointer, which made it begin printing the text at "MAKE YOUR SWORD", but the full text "THIS MAGIC WILL MAKE YOUR SWORD SHOOT FIRE." was still there.
Correct pointer was [7F AE], fixed now :)

I'll do another play though specifically focusing on dialog, and anything I feel could use some improvement, I'll post back to let you know.  :)

Thank you! That will really help a lot to polish the text of the game :)
Actually, you can check it by opening the game up in a Hex editor with TBL support, and adding the TBL into it, then going to address 0xE390, that's where the text begins. And it continues at 0xF820 after the pointer section.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of that, I noticed that the disassembly page now gives a "404 not found" error now. :/
Any reason why the disassembly is no longer available?
Does anyone have a backup copy of it? Or was the removal intentional?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 28, 2019, 01:43:59 pm
Went through every town and talked to each NPC or point of interest, and here are some improvements you could make.  The dialog in Redux is listed first in bold, followed by what I think would be better.  I tested all of these, and they will fit within the limited space of the text box.  :)


Spoiler:
"BALANCE THE THREE LEVELS AND TRUE POWER WILL BE YOURS!"

Perhaps makes this a more useful hint.  Explain saving with UP+A maybe?



"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO WEST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."

Should be "EAST" instead.



"I LOST THE MIRROR."

I lost my mirror.



"I FOUND A MIRROR UNDER THE TABLE."

"You" instead of "I"



"LET ME BE!  THIS HOUSE MASTER IS AT A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

"THE" instead of "THIS"



"ONLY TOWNSFOLK CAN CROSS THIS RIVER."

Only Saria Townsfolk can cross this river.



"A FRIEND OF BUG, EH!  IN THAT CASE, GO AND CROSS THE BRIDGE."

A friend of Bug, eh?  In that case, you may cross the bridge.



"THE RAFT IS AT THE ISLET TEMPLE TO THE SOUTH."

"Isle" instead of "Islet" to allow for better text spacing.



"PLEASE, MY DAUGHTER IS ILL, SHE LOOKS LIKE AT DEATH'S DOOR."

Please, my daughter is ill, she is at death's door!"



"A SACRED WATER IN A CAVE IN MORUGE SWAMP CAN AID THE ILL"

Missing punctuation.

A cave in the Moruge Swamp has the Sacred Water that heals all.




"SACRED WATER!  MY DAUGHTER IS SAVED!  COME TO MY HOUSE."

The sacred water!  My daughter is saved!  Come to my house.

(This allows for better text spacing.)



"IF YOU HAVE THE SACRED BOOTS, YOU CAN WALK ON THE OCEAN."

Move "ON" to the line above and make the last line "THE OCEAN."

(better spacing)



"I DREW SOME WATER."

You drew some water from the fountain.




"SEE THE WISE MAN AT DARUNIA BEFORE GOING TO MAZE ISLAND"

Missing punctuation.

See the wise man at Darunia before you go to Maze Island.




"YOU ARE STUBBORN!  I SAW A HEART ABOVE THE OCEAN!"

"OVER" instead of "ABOVE"




"THE WALL READS  [pause]  A TEMPLE LIES AT THE FAR EAST OF NABOORU."

The wall reads...  [pause]




"MONSTERS HATE NOISE."

The river monster hates all noise.




"WHEN YOU JUMP, TRY PRESSING UP TO PERFORM AN UPTHRUST."

When you jump, press up to perform an upthrust.




"MY CHILD IS CAPTURED ON MAZE ISLAND.  PLEASE, RESCUE HIM!"

My child is captured!  He's on Maze Island!  Please, rescue him!

(makes her seem more panicked this way.  also has better spacing)



"THANK YOU, HERO.  PLEASE, COME INSIDE."

You are a hero for saving my child.  Please, follow me.



"I WON'T TELL YOU UNTIL YOU ARE READY."

"TEACH" instead of "TELL"



"THIS MAGIC WILL STRENGTHEN YOUR SHIELD!"

This magic will allow your shield to deflect attacks!




"KASUTO... STRANGE... THERE IS NO SIGN OF ANYONE!"

Kasuto... [pause]  Strange... [pause]




"THE TOWN'S IN RUINS.  THE PEOPLE HID IN THE FOREST EAST OF THE CAVE"

Missing punctuation.

Kasuto is ruined.  The people fled to a hidden town in the east woods.




"THE MAGIC KEY READS [pause] TREASURE OF KASUTO."

The magic key... [pause] treasure of Kasuto.




"DO YOU HAVE SEVEN MAGIC CONTAINERS?"

Return when you have more magic capacity.




"THE OLD MAN WHO REMAINS IN KASUTO IS AN AMAZING MAGICIAN!"

The old man who remains in Kasuto is one of the great sages!"




"THE HOLE IN THE TEMPLE IS A NEVERENDING BOTTOMLESS PIT."

A spell was cast on a hole in the temple.  It never ends!

If not that, remove "NEVERENDING" from the dialog.  It's redundant.




"LEARN THIS MYSTERIOUS SPELL."

This spell has some mysterious origins.


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 28, 2019, 01:55:00 pm
Went through every town and talked to each NPC or point of interest, and here are some improvements you could make.  The dialog in Redux is listed first in bold, followed by what I think would be better.  I tested all of these, and they will fit within the limited space of the text box.  :)


Spoiler:
"BALANCE THE THREE LEVELS AND TRUE POWER WILL BE YOURS!"

Perhaps makes this a more useful hint.  Explain saving with UP+A maybe?



"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO WEST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."

Should be "EAST" instead.



"I LOST THE MIRROR."

I lost my mirror.



"I FOUND A MIRROR UNDER THE TABLE."

"You" instead of "I"



"LET ME BE!  THIS HOUSE MASTER IS AT A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

"THE" instead of "THIS"



"ONLY TOWNSFOLK CAN CROSS THIS RIVER."

Only Saria Townsfolk can cross this river.



"A FRIEND OF BUG, EH!  IN THAT CASE, GO AND CROSS THE BRIDGE."

A friend of Bug, eh?  In that case, you may cross the bridge.



"THE RAFT IS AT THE ISLET TEMPLE TO THE SOUTH."

"Isle" instead of "Islet" to allow for better text spacing.



"PLEASE, MY DAUGHTER IS ILL, SHE LOOKS LIKE AT DEATH'S DOOR."

Please, my daughter is ill, she is at death's door!"



"A SACRED WATER IN A CAVE IN MORUGE SWAMP CAN AID THE ILL"

Missing punctuation.

A cave in the Moruge Swamp has the Sacred Water that heals all.




"SACRED WATER!  MY DAUGHTER IS SAVED!  COME TO MY HOUSE."

The sacred water!  My daughter is saved!  Come to my house.

(This allows for better text spacing.)



"IF YOU HAVE THE SACRED BOOTS, YOU CAN WALK ON THE OCEAN."

Move "ON" to the line above and make the last line "THE OCEAN."

(better spacing)



"I DREW SOME WATER."

You drew some water from the fountain.




"SEE THE WISE MAN AT DARUNIA BEFORE GOING TO MAZE ISLAND"

Missing punctuation.

See the wise man at Darunia before you go to Maze Island.




"YOU ARE STUBBORN!  I SAW A HEART ABOVE THE OCEAN!"

"OVER" instead of "ABOVE"




"THE WALL READS  [pause]  A TEMPLE LIES AT THE FAR EAST OF NABOORU."

The wall reads...  [pause]




"MONSTERS HATE NOISE."

The river monster hates all noise.




"WHEN YOU JUMP, TRY PRESSING UP TO PERFORM AN UPTHRUST."

When you jump, press up to perform an upthrust.




"MY CHILD IS CAPTURED ON MAZE ISLAND.  PLEASE, RESCUE HIM!"

My child is captured!  He's on Maze Island!  Please, rescue him!

(makes her seem more panicked this way.  also has better spacing)



"THANK YOU, HERO.  PLEASE, COME INSIDE."

You are a hero for saving my child.  Please, follow me.



"I WON'T TELL YOU UNTIL YOU ARE READY."

"TEACH" instead of "TELL"



"THIS MAGIC WILL STRENGTHEN YOUR SHIELD!"

This magic will allow your shield to deflect attacks!




"KASUTO... STRANGE... THERE IS NO SIGN OF ANYONE!"

Kasuto... [pause]  Strange... [pause]




"THE TOWN'S IN RUINS.  THE PEOPLE HID IN THE FOREST EAST OF THE CAVE"

Missing punctuation.

Kasuto is ruined.  The people fled to a hidden town in the east woods.




"THE MAGIC KEY READS [pause] TREASURE OF KASUTO."

The magic key... [pause] treasure of Kasuto.




"DO YOU HAVE SEVEN MAGIC CONTAINERS?"

Return when you have more magic capacity.




"THE OLD MAN WHO REMAINS IN KASUTO IS AN AMAZING MAGICIAN!"

The old man who remains in Kasuto is one of the great sages!"




"THE HOLE IN THE TEMPLE IS A NEVERENDING BOTTOMLESS PIT."

A spell was cast on a hole in the temple.  It never ends!

If not that, remove "NEVERENDING" from the dialog.  It's redundant.




"LEARN THIS MYSTERIOUS SPELL."

This spell has some mysterious origins.

Those are all great points to bring up :)
One thing worth noting though...

The text boxes allow for a maximum of 6 rows, each one with a maximum of 11 tiles per row.
So basically we have 66 tiles/letters/spaces to work with, 11 characters per row.

That was one of the main reasons why I couldn't add that much info into some of them, one example is the one with the Sacred water one I believe, same with a few others.
I'll see how I can rearrange them to work still :)

Also, I found the address to make the Bot/Bit that appears in towns to give out Exp, it's at 0xD4E9, should be a [C0], I changed it to [C1]
Seems like the whole data bits for enemies that appear in towns starts at 0xD4E5, added that info to Data Crystal.
I could also confirm that with the Moa that appears in the new King's Tomb you made, his bits are at 0xD4EB I believe.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 28, 2019, 02:03:16 pm
I'm aware of the limitations of the text.  My changes should all fit within those.  I did a lot of this for Shadow of Night, which has the same limitations as Redux, so that experience helped out in making these suggestions.  :)

Yeah, the enemy data for towns is a bit more unknown, because there are only 3 different enemy types I believe.  It's good you added it to datacrystal!  I'm surprised it didn't have any, ha ha.


Edit:

Here are some other various suggestions:

1. Basilisk in cave north of Nabooru needs to be moved left a few spaces.  If you enter the cave from the north entrance, this enemy is positioned in such a way that it wraps to the right side of the screen.  Simply moving it will fix this.


2. Moa in Path of Fire entrance needs to be move up a few spaces.  Sometimes there is a forced hit from the Moa because it will spawn right on top of you, and you can't avoid it.


3. The final sign in Old Kasuto has no text.  Perhaps remove the sign, or add text to it.


Edit:

Discovered another condition check that needed to be done for the automatic Saria Bridge.  When you talk to Error's friend in Mido, he also uses RAM address $796.  So that makes 4 things that use it.  Saria Bridge, Down stab, Up Stab, and Error's friend.  I will check if there are any others, but so far, I haven't found anymore.  I updated the original post.  Not much is changed, so it should be easy to update.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on February 28, 2019, 05:24:34 pm
Okay just went ahead and addressed all of the text stuff that you mentioned :)
Repointed a lot of text, but they should now have all proper punctuation and spacing.

If you can, please check it out, it's the same link from the OP, just updated the patch a few seconds ago.
This one also has the fix for the Saria's bridge.

Here are some other various suggestions:

1. Basilisk in cave north of Nabooru needs to be moved left a few spaces.  If you enter the cave from the north entrance, this enemy is positioned in such a way that it wraps to the right side of the screen.  Simply moving it will fix this.

2. Moa in Path of Fire entrance needs to be move up a few spaces.  Sometimes there is a forced hit from the Moa because it will spawn right on top of you, and you can't avoid it.

3. The final sign in Old Kasuto has no text.  Perhaps remove the sign, or add text to it.

Are these related to enemy positioning in the game?
Can this be done with the Editor?
If so, could you please take a look into it with the editor you use? Or maybe even with njosro's

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, one last thing I just remembered that I'd love to get implemented into Redux right before it gets released:
https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link#Palace_Windows

In there you can see that the 4th and 6th palaces (Maze Palace & Hidden Palace) have unused window graphics, which are never seen because those palace layouts don't have any windows in them.
Could these be implemented with the Editor as well somehow?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on February 28, 2019, 05:55:59 pm
SEXY WINDOWS! i'd love to see em in there.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on February 28, 2019, 06:29:01 pm
Dialog looks a lot more polished!   :thumbsup:  There are a few remaining things for dialog that need to be addressed.

Spoiler:
"YOU ARE A HERO FOR SAVING MY CHILD. PLEASE, COME INSIDE."

Uses 7 lines and doesn't fit, glitching the bottom of the text box.  Try "PLEASE, FOLLOW ME." instead.



"I DON'T HAVE MORE TO TELL YOU.  GO, AND TAKE CARE."

"TEACH" instead of "TELL"



"LET ME BE!  THE HOUSE MASTER IS AT A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

"IN" instead of "AT"

I would've mentioned these previously, but didn't notice it.  :P

This enemy placement can be done with an editor.  I can do it real quick, and provide the exact bytes to change.  Also, to add text to the final sign in Old Kasuto, we'll probably just have to expand the enemy data for that screen, so we don't have to replace a Moa.  I'll report back the progress on those.

As for the unused windows, I'll look into it!  Actually, all the stuff mentioned in that link is really interesting.  I've seen the gfx for the spikes while tile editing, but it always confused me.  I had no idea they were spikes, ha ha.  Not sure if they can be inserted easily with an editor, they might need some changes to the tile mappings.  I'll let you know what I find.  ;)

Edit:

Basilisk.  At 0x89DF, replace 70 D8 with 7D 98.  This will move the Basilisk to the left, preventing it from doing that weird screen wrap upon entry.  (the cave north of Nabooru)

Moa.  At 0x8A2F, replace 60 06 with 40 06.  This will move the Moa up, preventing a forced hit on Link.  (Path of Fire entrance, by the graveyard)

Edit:

Repointed the enemy data for the last scene in Old Kasuto.  Added an object for the sign, so now it has text.

At 0xC5DB, replace F0 70 with 90 73.

At 0xCC40, paste: 13 78 06 76 21 5A 06 68 46 5A 46 68 86 5A 86 68 C6 78 C6

76 21 is the new sign object, and all the original Moas are untouched.


February 28, 2019, 08:47:34 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

To add the windows to Palace 4 and 6, you'd simply need to repoint the data for any room you want to have them.  I went ahead and added some windows to two rooms in Palace 4, and more in Palace 6.  Not many, though, since not every room needs windows.  Here is an image from Palace 4 and 6 to see how they look:  (visit Palace 6 to see the rest)

(https://i.imgur.com/vZt0qMw.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/zyDj2OJ.png)

Paste the following code at these addresses: (these are pointers for level data)
0x12022 = 41 A5
0x12052 = 41 A5
0x12060 = 8D A7
0x12066 = 6B A7
0x1207A = 65 A5
0x12088 = 41 A5

Next, at 0x12539, paste this code:

18 60 80 13 45 00 44 00 89 05 4A 00 44 00 07 F1 B0 71 F0 50 48 00 44 00 24 60 00 10 45 00 44 00 D4 0E DC 00 43 00 44 00 63 02 D1 0E 03 F1 B0 71 F0 50 84 05 D1 00 60 01 43 00 44 00 1E 60 0E 10 E1 00 D0 08 60 01 43 00 49 00 63 02 D1 0E D6 08 60 01 43 00 49 00 63 02 D1 0E

Finally, at 0x1276A, paste this code:

11 60 80 12 BF 70 44 00 49 00 B4 70 8D 05 99 0F 05 22 60 00 10 48 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 67 09 80 C2 B3 A3 41 00 67 09 80 C2 44 00 15 B9 2A 60 0E 10 D2 08 46 00 D4 0E D6 80 B2 F7 41 00 B1 71 43 00 45 09 60 71 D2 0E 87 05 D3 0C D2 02 10 2F 20 71 D2 04 D2 06 1C 23

These chunks of code are data for rooms in Palace 4 and 6.  The level design is exactly the same as the original, but now they have windows!  If you want to add more to other rooms, simply change the pointers for level data, and add the new layout to the end of the data in free space.

I recommend using njosro's editor to do this.

His editor has a built in feature to repoint level data, so you can easily add windows to your heart's content!  The ones I added seems like a good amount, but if you'd rather place them elsewhere, or in different rooms, at least you know it's easy to do.   :happy:


March 01, 2019, 02:27:47 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Here is something else that could improve the animation of the lava on the world map.  I noticed the lava was using the same animation as the water, and that just looked weird.  So I made this "boiling/fire" animation, which is much better suited for lava.  :)

Here is an GIF showing it in action:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/XISPEBF.gif)

And here are the tiles you need to make this animation.  You only have to draw 4 tiles, then place them in the right order for each frame.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/YCSSzsn.png)

Next step is to change the tile mapping for the lava.

At 0x7DB, replace 6E 6E 6E 6E with:  A7 A8 A9 AA

Finally, do you remember the fix for the glitchy world map tiles when you saved and returned to the title screen?  We have to do that for this, as well.  In the previous picture, the tiles circled in red should be empty.  This is in the first bank used for the title screen.  I placed the lava in those positions because these are unused and safe to edit.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 11:34:58 am
Oh wow IcePenguin, you really went above and beyond with these changes.

First of all, the text changes are now done :)
Thanks for those last three dialogue changes, the script should be completely done!

I also went ahead and implemented the enemy changes you made for the Moa and the Basilisk, and man those palace windows!
I'm happy with the ones you inserted, I just wanted a couple few rooms to have them, just to have the unused window graphic back in there somehow :) Thank you!

I do have a couple of questions:

Repointed the enemy data for the last scene in Old Kasuto.  Added an object for the sign, so now it has text.

At 0xC5DB, replace F0 70 with 90 73.

At 0xCC40, paste: 13 78 06 76 21 5A 06 68 46 5A 46 68 86 5A 86 68 C6 78 C6

76 21 is the new sign object, and all the original Moas are untouched.

I don't quite get what this change does.
Old Kasuto has a sign that doesn't have any text for it?
What would this change do?
And most importantly, what text would this sign point to?

Here is something else that could improve the animation of the lava on the world map.  I noticed the lava was using the same animation as the water, and that just looked weird.  So I made this "boiling/fire" animation, which is much better suited for lava.  :)

Here is an GIF showing it in action:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/XISPEBF.gif)

And here are the tiles you need to make this animation.  You only have to draw 4 tiles, then place them in the right order for each frame.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/YCSSzsn.png)

Next step is to change the tile mapping for the lava.

At 0x7DB, replace 6E 6E 6E 6E with:  A7 A8 A9 AA

Finally, do you remember the fix for the glitchy world map tiles when you saved and returned to the title screen?  We have to do that for this, as well.  In the previous picture, the tiles circled in red should be empty.  This is in the first bank used for the title screen.  I placed the lava in those positions because these are unused and safe to edit.
Man those lava tiles look awesome :)
I already implemented them without issues into Redux!
I just have one slight suggestion for these ones.
Perhaps adding some sort of left-right animation every 2 frames into the pixels below and above the lava bubble would make it look vivid.
Right now, only the bubbles move, but the rest of the pixels above and below the bubble look kinda flat, perhaps moving them right and then left every two frames could make it look as if it is slowly moving lava.

Let me know what do you think :)
I have some ideas for it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 01, 2019, 12:24:58 pm
For this new line:

"LET ME BE!  THE HOUSE MASTER IS IN A FOREST NORTH OF THE RIVER."

Perhaps "THE HOUSE'S MASTER" or "THIS HOUSE'S MASTER" would sound a little more natural, if there's room. But perhaps the slightly odd phrasing is fitting, since I believe it's a monster that says this line.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 01, 2019, 12:46:33 pm
I don't quite get what this change does.
Old Kasuto has a sign that doesn't have any text for it?
What would this change do?
And most importantly, what text would this sign point to?

I just have one slight suggestion for these ones.
Perhaps adding some sort of left-right animation every 2 frames into the pixels below and above the lava bubble would make it look vivid.
Right now, only the bubbles move, but the rest of the pixels above and below the bubble look kinda flat, perhaps moving them right and then left every two frames could make it look as if it is slowly moving lava.

Let me know what do you think :)
I have some ideas for it.

Glad you like the windows!  Be sure to run through Palace 6 to see the other rooms with windows.  ;)  Also, if I notice any other dialog oddities, I'll report them.

About the sign, the original game had no text for the final sign in Old Kasuto.  Normally, every town has text for it's entry sign, and exit sign.  (the one at the end of the town)  Old Kasuto did not have this.  So the change just adds text to the sign, and it's the same text as you see at the beginning of the town, like normal.

I made some new lava tiles based on your feedback.  I tested a slow moving lava effect, but it didn't look good.  Try these out instead.  Let me know what you think! 

(https://i.imgur.com/IhrImjG.png)

Remember to place them in the right order for each frame.  ;)

Edit:

Here is another suggestion.  Change the palette of the large fences in East Hyrule.  They are the same color as Link's outline and it doesn't look right.  If anything, make them darker, or a different color brown.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/Aqk8mLb.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 01, 2019, 01:22:50 pm
that lava reminds me of Subrosia in Oracle of Seasons, NICE!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 01:56:52 pm
Already implemented the Old Kasuto sign object hack :)

I made some new lava tiles based on your feedback.  I tested a slow moving lava effect, but it didn't look good.  Try these out instead.  Let me know what you think! 

(https://i.imgur.com/IhrImjG.png)

Looks neat!
Although, for the movement of the lava I meant something like 2 frames between each change.
The bubble like it is, is just perfect, the pixels above I tried to make them look like they move slower.
Try it out and let me know if you have any suggestions for it, I feel like it can still be improved a bit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dbq6pl321fj2dh/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Simply enable the walk through all in the overworld code and go directly to it :P

Here is another suggestion.  Change the palette of the large fences in East Hyrule.  They are the same color as Link's outline and it doesn't look right.  If anything, make them darker, or a different color brown.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/Aqk8mLb.png)

AH!
I thought no one would mention this!
Finally someone does :P
I noticed it way earlier, right when I made the palette change for Link, but kinda let it aside.

I have these two mockups at the moment, which one do you guys like the best?
In order:

Original - Mockup #1 - Mockup #2 - Mockup #3

(https://i.imgur.com/Aqk8mLb.png) (https://i.imgur.com/fiLSBjs.png) (https://i.imgur.com/hmPfdpN.png) (https://i.imgur.com/meFj6mv.png)

I cannot go for a darker tone of red or brown, since 06, 07 and 08 are the most dark tones for them.
If you want to give them a quick try, open FCEUX's Hex editor, go to PPU Data and then go to the very last addresses, you will see something like [17 07 08], you can edit those ones to test how they might look without changing the hex addresses directly.
Personally, I kinda like Mockup #3, but I'm all up for suggestions.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 01, 2019, 02:13:49 pm
Your idea looks great for the lava.  I was about to post that I didn't like the new one I did because it was too sporadic for lava.  Bubbling lava shouldn't move too much, and what you did looks great!  Good team effort, ha ha.  :)

For some feedback on your fences, not really a fan of either mock-up for the fence.  The yellow is too bright, and the first one doesn't seem any different.  Have you tried adding black to the palette?  If black is not something you like, I think the yellow mock-up is the best of the two you did.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/z5DoGdq.png)

Edit:

3rd one is good!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 02:15:36 pm
Your idea looks great for the lava.  I was about to post that I didn't like the new one I did because it was too sporadic for lava.  Bubbling lava shouldn't move too much, and what you did looks great!  Good team effort, ha ha.  :)

For some feedback on your fences, not really a fan of either mock-up for the fence.  The yellow is too bright, and the first one doesn't seem any different.  Have you tried adding black to the palette?  If black is not something you like, I think the yellow mock-up is the best of the two you did.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/z5DoGdq.png)

Check the third one I added.
I think it's the best so far.

(https://i.imgur.com/meFj6mv.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 01, 2019, 02:17:32 pm
Ah that looks good!  Didn't see it when I posted last.  :P

Edit:

If you still think the lava needs improvement, try this.  It doesn't move the pixels as you suggested, but it alternates them, giving it the slow lava effect.  The less movement the better for lava.

(https://i.imgur.com/FuUjcQA.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on March 01, 2019, 02:52:15 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/meFj6mv.png)

I vote for this one. It has the best balance of light and shadow.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 02:55:40 pm
The new tiles for the lava look great! They're added now. :)

Also, I just noticed, but if I change the palette for that particular part of the wooden fence, other forest sections get modified as well.

For Western Hyrule, this particular palette is found at 0x4062, and for Western Hyrule it's at 0x8062 with [0F 17 07 08].
If I change it to what I modified it to (27 18 08), then other parts like when you encounter an enemy in a forest get modified too.
Try it in Western Hyrule just above the fence tile, encounter an enemy in a forest tile and you will see the ground is no longer red-ish like it was, it is now brown all around.
I am not sure if I should keep it with the original colour, but invert the pixels of the tiles for the wooden fence, or modify it and sacrifice the red earth xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 01, 2019, 03:17:31 pm
Hmm, interesting dilemma.  I wouldn't invert the pixels of the fence, because that will then affect the trees.  I would say sacrifice the red ground.  You can still make the ground look good, and it's still unique from what exists in West Hyrule, so it's not that big of a deal.  To fix the issue with the fence, it seems worth it.   :thumbsup:

Edit:

Still some issue with the dialog.

"I DON'T HAVE MORE TO TEACH YOU.  GO, AND TAKE CARE."

There is no line break after "TEACH" so the text goes outside the text box, and some of them still say "TELL".  I believe there are 2 instances of this text, used by different wise men?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 04:33:56 pm
Yeah there's two instances of that same text :P
Though I never thought they were used by two different wise man.
It's something good to know.
Perhaps I can save up some space by making both pointers point to the same text, instead of having two pointers for two different texts.

What do you think?
Btw, patch has been updated with the palette changes. :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 01, 2019, 05:09:16 pm
Perhaps they could say something different, to add a bit of variety?  Do all wise men say the same thing in the original game?  Might be something worth considering.

The new palette looks great!  I actually like the ground better than the original.  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 01, 2019, 05:13:52 pm
Perhaps they could say something different, to add a bit of variety?  Do all wise men say the same thing in the original game?  Might be something worth considering.

The new palette looks great!  I actually like the ground better than the original.  :P

In the US release, they do say something different.
However in the Japanese release, they say exactly the same thing:

Quote
I CANNOT | モウオマエニ オシエ          | I don’t have anything
HELP YOU | ルコトハナイ                      | more to tell you. Go,
ANYMORE. | キヲツケテイキナサイ{END}  | and take care of yourself.
GO NOW.  |


YOU KNOW  | モウオマエニ オシエ          | I don’t have anything
ALL I CAN    | ルコトハナイ                      | more to tell you. Go,
TEACH YOU.| キヲツケテイキナサイ{END}  | and take care of yourself.
GO.            |
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on March 01, 2019, 08:22:41 pm
I've always disliked that forest ground sprite I mean its not awful but the lighter fence palette some how make it look better.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on March 01, 2019, 09:40:44 pm
For the Wise Men telling you to GTFO, I'd say more variety in dialog is better for sure.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 02, 2019, 11:26:51 am
Found a "bug" on the title screen.  It appears you made a hole in the mountain, and the scrolling text can appear through it.  I'm guessing you did it to round the corners of the mountain?  Here is an image showing the tile in question.  It's just one tile:

(https://i.imgur.com/BetCw5G.png)

The left most tile has transparent pixels in it.  This tile is used for the corners on the mountain, but there is a single tile in the center that uses it, as well, allowing the text to show.  I'd fill the hole in with black, since it's in the palette.  :)

Edit:

Did one final check for all dialog, for anything missed that could still be improved.  Here are a few more suggestions I think would make the game feel more polished.  Some hints could be a bit more detailed, providing better direction for the player.

Spoiler:
"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO EAST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."

Find the candle in the parapa desert temple. Go north east.

This one is more in line with what the lady says at the town entrance.  About going north to the tunnel.



"USE THIS MAGIC TO SURVIVE THE TEMPLE AT PARAPA DESERT."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"USE TEMPLE KEYS IN TEMPLES WHERE THEY ARE FOUND."

Use keys in the temples where they are found.



"YOU FOUND A MIRROR UNDER THE TABLE."

Move "A" to the next line for better spacing.



"THERE ARE A PAIR OF SACRED GLOVES AT MIDORO SWAMP."

The temple in Midoro Swamp has a pair of sacred gloves.

Normally, there is no clue about which swamp is Midoro Swamp.  By changing this, player's will know which swamp it is, because of the temple.



"ONLY SARIA TOWNSFOLK CAN CROSS THIS RIVER."

"MAY" instead of "CAN" just to have consistency with his follow up text.



"THE RAFT IS AT THE ISLE TEMPLE TO THE SOUTH."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."

Something I didn't notice before.  A lady in Mido town says a bell always tolls, but that contradicts this text.  I believe the original game mentions the bell ringing.  Perhaps make it more in line with that?



"THE WALL READS... A TEMPLE LIES AT THE FAR EAST OF NABOORU."

"TO" instead of "AT"



"EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO."

Perhaps add some lore to this?  Why did they flee?

Everyone fled from Kasuto when the minions of Ganon attacked.



"A HEART CONTAINER IS ON THE SHORE EAST OF TRIPLE EYE ROCK."

"BY" instead of "ON"



"CALL TO THE TEMPLE AT THE THREE EYE ROCKS IN THE DESERT."

This dialog and the previous one, both mention the same place, but with different names.  Make them both the same.  Use either "THREE EYE ROCK"  or  "TRIPLE EYE ROCK"

Edit:

At 0x2836, replace 8D 96 07 with:

20 00 AD

At 0x2CA0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A9 00 CD 96 07 F0 39 A9 02 CD 96 07 F0 32 A9 04 CD 96 07 F0 2B A9 06 CD 96 07 F0 24 A9 10 CD 96 07 F0 1D A9 12 CD 96 07 F0 16 A9 14 CD 96 07 F0 0F A9 16 CD 96 07 F0 08 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF A9 01 CD 9D 07 D0 25 A9 06 CD 61 05 D0 1E A9 00 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 02 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 A9 01 CD 44 07 D0 03 EE 96 07 60

At 0x2D10, paste this code:  8D 96 07 A9 01 8D 9D 07 60

Updated the automatic Saria Bridge hack.  The code is a lot more efficient and uses LESS space!  :)  I changed the original post with the new code, but here is a quote highlighting what's different.  Remove all the old code first at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D70, and paste the new code at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D10.

Edit:

Here is another suggestion:  With the recent changes to the palette for the fence, and trees, it'd be good to redraw the small tree stumps in the forest around Bagu's house.  They are very bright now, and it doesn't look good.  :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on March 03, 2019, 12:31:05 am
The misinterpretation of the sentence on where to go AFTER you get the candle is the kind of thing that should get you Gannon Banned. Come on, it's an old trope. The text is cut into two parts: get the candle in Parapa. THEN, go west. It makes sense. The west is towards the LEFT on a map (assuming North is up). In the Japanese version, the sentence implies that one thing happens after the other:

パラパノ シンデンデ
ローソクヲ トッタラ
ニシノ トンネルカラ
ツギノシンデンニユケ

parapa no shinden de
roosoku o tottara
nishi no tonneru kara
tsugi no shinden ni yuke


Other than that, I wonder if Link is never supposed to talk, as it's been the rule since... forever? Using "I" would then be contraindicated. This means "I found a mirror under the table" is prohibited, and maybe, if we stretch a little, the sign at the entrance of abandoned Kasuto. It's like Link himself is saying "strange... it is deserted", because it would be weird that someone actually wrote this on the sign. It seems like nitpicking, but hey. The Japanese version does about the same thing.

By the way, instead of changing the individual color codes in the palettes for backgrounds to have a better palissade color (with the rock-throwing Lizalfos), can't we just use another set of palettes for this particular area? There are 8 different palettes sets that we can choose from, per region. Well, 9 if we count the one for caves without the Candle.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 03, 2019, 01:04:33 am
The misinterpretation of the sentence on where to go AFTER you get the candle is the kind of thing that should get you Gannon Banned. Come on, it's an old trope. The text is cut into two parts: get the candle in Parapa. THEN, go west. It makes sense. The west is towards the LEFT on a map (assuming North is up). In the Japanese version, the sentence implies that one thing happens after the other:

パラパノ シンデンデ
ローソクヲ トッタラ
ニシノ トンネルカラ
ツギノシンデンニユケ

parapa no shinden de
roosoku o tottara
nishi no tonneru kara
tsugi no shinden ni yuke


Other than that, I wonder if Link is never supposed to talk, as it's been the rule since... forever? Using "I" would then be contraindicated. This means "I found a mirror under the table" is prohibited, and maybe, if we stretch a little, the sign at the entrance of abandoned Kasuto. It's like Link himself is saying "strange... it is deserted", because it would be weird that someone actually wrote this on the sign. It seems like nitpicking, but hey. The Japanese version does about the same thing.

By the way, instead of changing the individual color codes in the palettes for backgrounds to have a better palissade color (with the rock-throwing Lizalfos), can't we just use another set of palettes for this particular area? There are 8 different palettes sets that we can choose from, per region. Well, 9 if we count the one for caves without the Candle.

Ah, I was never aware of that for the candle text.  To be fair, the English text does say: "GET CANDLE IN PARAPA PALACE. GO WEST."  Having no "then" can drastically change its meaning, and I always just read it as directions for where the candle is - also assuming "west" was just a typo in direction.  :P  Now I understand what it was really tying to say! 

You bring up some good points about Link not talking.  Those suggestions were made based on that Link never talks.  So if those changes are implemented, the sign in Old Kasuto should be changed, as well.  However, it could be seen as sort of a narration text.  In Link's Awakening, the sign to the forest reads: "Mysterious Forest (It's a little bit mysterious.)"

About the palette, that's probably the best solution!  Just changing the palette for the scene could make the whole issue with the fence easily resolved.  No need for modifying at palette at all.


March 03, 2019, 08:24:17 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Trax suggested changing the palette of the scene, so I did some experimenting with it.  Doing it this way will have less repercussions and a bunch of things won't be affected by modifying the colors in the palette.  I tested the palette of every scene type (castle, grass, desert, swamp, etc.), but only 1 of them looked good.  It was the graveyard.  Here is an image showing the fence scene using the graveyard palette, instead of the original forest palette:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/TX5oMd2.png)

At 0x8F97, change 60 to 70.

You can try out the various other scene types, but the graveyard was the best I think.  Plus, using the graveyard scene fits well with the location - there IS a graveyard nearby!  If you decide to do this, remember to change the forest palette back to normal.  :P

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 03, 2019, 08:49:51 pm
I dunno about the Graveyard theme. This one looks pretty good..

Check the third one I added.
I think it's the best so far.

(https://i.imgur.com/meFj6mv.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 03, 2019, 09:59:46 pm
I played the latest version for a bit and noticed that the "temples" are occasionally referred to as "palaces" by NPCs. I'd suggest making it temple across the board to keep things consistent.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 03, 2019, 10:45:27 pm
Here is another thing that can be fixed.  On the long bridge after exiting Death Mountain, the red moblin that appears is actually placed above the bridge.   This makes it appear to be falling when you enter the scene.  So here is a fix just like what we did with the basilisk and moa in East Hyrule.

At 0x4931, change 20 to 22.  This will move the red moblin to the right a bit so he doesn't spawn on screen.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 04, 2019, 12:59:25 am
I played the latest version for a bit and noticed that the "temples" are occasionally referred to as "palaces" by NPCs. I'd suggest making it temple across the board to keep things consistent.

This would make it more consistent with the series as palaces are generally castles. Though keeping the final temple called the Grand Palace would be a good idea :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 04, 2019, 11:18:32 am
Found a "bug" on the title screen.  It appears you made a hole in the mountain, and the scrolling text can appear through it.  I'm guessing you did it to round the corners of the mountain?  Here is an image showing the tile in question.  It's just one tile:

(https://i.imgur.com/BetCw5G.png)

The left most tile has transparent pixels in it.  This tile is used for the corners on the mountain, but there is a single tile in the center that uses it, as well, allowing the text to show.  I'd fill the hole in with black, since it's in the palette.  :)

Edit:

Did one final check for all dialog, for anything missed that could still be improved.  Here are a few more suggestions I think would make the game feel more polished.  Some hints could be a bit more detailed, providing better direction for the player.

Spoiler:
"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO EAST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."

Find the candle in the parapa desert temple. Go north east.

This one is more in line with what the lady says at the town entrance.  About going north to the tunnel.



"USE THIS MAGIC TO SURVIVE THE TEMPLE AT PARAPA DESERT."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"USE TEMPLE KEYS IN TEMPLES WHERE THEY ARE FOUND."

Use keys in the temples where they are found.



"YOU FOUND A MIRROR UNDER THE TABLE."

Move "A" to the next line for better spacing.



"THERE ARE A PAIR OF SACRED GLOVES AT MIDORO SWAMP."

The temple in Midoro Swamp has a pair of sacred gloves.

Normally, there is no clue about which swamp is Midoro Swamp.  By changing this, player's will know which swamp it is, because of the temple.



"ONLY SARIA TOWNSFOLK CAN CROSS THIS RIVER."

"MAY" instead of "CAN" just to have consistency with his follow up text.



"THE RAFT IS AT THE ISLE TEMPLE TO THE SOUTH."

"IN" instead of "AT"



"THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."

Something I didn't notice before.  A lady in Mido town says a bell always tolls, but that contradicts this text.  I believe the original game mentions the bell ringing.  Perhaps make it more in line with that?



"THE WALL READS... A TEMPLE LIES AT THE FAR EAST OF NABOORU."

"TO" instead of "AT"



"EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO."

Perhaps add some lore to this?  Why did they flee?

Everyone fled from Kasuto when the minions of Ganon attacked.



"A HEART CONTAINER IS ON THE SHORE EAST OF TRIPLE EYE ROCK."

"BY" instead of "ON"



"CALL TO THE TEMPLE AT THE THREE EYE ROCKS IN THE DESERT."

This dialog and the previous one, both mention the same place, but with different names.  Make them both the same.  Use either "THREE EYE ROCK"  or  "TRIPLE EYE ROCK"

Edit:

Updated the automatic Saria Bridge hack.  The code is a lot more efficient and uses LESS space!  :)  I changed the original post with the new code, but here is a quote highlighting what's different.  Remove all the old code first at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D70, and paste the new code at 0x2CA0 and 0x2D10.

Edit:

Here is another suggestion:  With the recent changes to the palette for the fence, and trees, it'd be good to redraw the small tree stumps in the forest around Bagu's house.  They are very bright now, and it doesn't look good.  :P

Already made all of the changes you specified. :)
The title screen tile, Saria's bridge new code, and also the tree stumps near Bagu's house have been redrawn to better match the new palette:

(https://i.imgur.com/j5x1DLh.png)

Now I just have some doubts about a few lines specifically, let me know what do you think of each rewrite:

The misinterpretation of the sentence on where to go AFTER you get the candle is the kind of thing that should get you Gannon Banned. Come on, it's an old trope. The text is cut into two parts: get the candle in Parapa. THEN, go west. It makes sense. The west is towards the LEFT on a map (assuming North is up). In the Japanese version, the sentence implies that one thing happens after the other:

パラパノ シンデンデ
ローソクヲ トッタラ
ニシノ トンネルカラ
ツギノシンデンニユケ

parapa no shinden de
roosoku o tottara
nishi no tonneru kara
tsugi no shinden ni yuke


Other than that, I wonder if Link is never supposed to talk, as it's been the rule since... forever? Using "I" would then be contraindicated. This means "I found a mirror under the table" is prohibited, and maybe, if we stretch a little, the sign at the entrance of abandoned Kasuto. It's like Link himself is saying "strange... it is deserted", because it would be weird that someone actually wrote this on the sign. It seems like nitpicking, but hey. The Japanese version does about the same thing.

Thanks for that explanation, Trax :)
I will rework the text so that it mentions getting the candle in Parapa, and then go west to the next temple.

I played the latest version for a bit and noticed that the "temples" are occasionally referred to as "palaces" by NPCs. I'd suggest making it temple across the board to keep things consistent.

Sounds good!
I will see what instances of "PALACE" are still in the game and change them to temples.
Having them mixed around is odd for sure, and having them be Temples all around would make them fit with the rest of the series as well. Palaces are more like fancy castles, and I doubt places filled with traps and monsters are anything but palaces ;D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: xttx on March 04, 2019, 11:29:15 am
Nice work ShadowOne! I've been following this for quite some time. This is def Zelda II the way it SHOULD have been :thumbsup:

How often do you update the beta on page 1? I might grab the next one once you upload the current changes!  ;D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 04, 2019, 11:32:54 am
Nice work ShadowOne! I've been following this for quite some time. This is def Zelda II the way it SHOULD have been :thumbsup:

How often do you update the beta on page 1? I might grab the next one once you upload the current changes!  ;D

The beta in the OP is updated with every bit of change I make.
Right now, all of the current changes (and proposed new lines in the last post implemented) have just been updated.
The link is always the same, but the patch is updated often.
So if you want to, try out the new beta patch, it should be the latest.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 04, 2019, 11:34:06 am
Now I just have some doubts about a few lines specifically, let me know what do you think of each rewrite:
  • "THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."
    How about something like "THE DOOR\WILL NOT\OPEN.\ONLY THE\CHURCH BELL\TOLLS..." ?
  • "EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO."
    "EVERYONE\FLED FROM\KASUTO WHEN\GANON'S\MINIONS\ATTACKED." ...?
  • "GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO EAST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."
    "FIND THE\CANDLE IN\THE PARAPA\TEMPLE,\THEN GO TO\THE WEST." ...?

Those sounds good!  For the middle one about Ganon's minions, I think the suggested way "the minions of Ganon" sounds better, plus better spacing, but either one works!  :)  I'll grab the latest version and do some more testing!

Edit:

For that candle text, maybe you could do something like this.  Having the town name in there makes it much better, and adds a bit more sense to the NPC's knowledge of geography - NPC's don't talk about other towns very often in the original game, so having more connections like that would be awesome.  :P

"GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, AND GO WEST TO RUTO."

Edit:

"THE TEMPLE IN MIDORO SWAMP HAS A PAIR OF SACRED GLOVES."

There is no line break after "TEMPLE" making the rest of the text go outside the text box.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 04, 2019, 11:53:06 am
Now I just have some doubts about a few lines specifically, let me know what do you think of each rewrite:
  • "THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."
    How about something like "THE DOOR\WILL NOT\OPEN.\ONLY THE\CHURCH BELL\TOLLS..." ?


Your re-write implies that the church bell tolls constantly, which I don't believe is the intent. From reading a direct translation of the original Japanese lines, I infer that the church bell tolls on the hour (or whenever's typical for church bells of Hyrule) which is mysterious to the townsfolk of Mido since the church is believed to be vacant. That's of course a hint to the player that there's someone still there that Link should try and talk to.

I think the original text, roughly translated as, "The door won't open. It sure is quiet." is meant to invoke a creepy vibe, since a church who's bell still tolls despite being abandoned is definitely eerie. I think the current "awfully quiet" line fails to invoke a creepy vibe mostly because I can't help but think of Elmer Fudd from Looney Tunes.

It's hard for me to suggest a replacement line since I'm not familiar with the text restrictions you must work with.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 04, 2019, 12:07:32 pm
For that candle text, maybe you could do something like this.  Having the town name in there makes it much better, and adds a bit more sense to the NPC's knowledge of geography - NPC's don't talk about other towns very often in the original game, so having more connections like that would be awesome.  :P

"GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, AND GO WEST TO RUTO."

How about "GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN WEST TO RUTO." ?
Or does it sound somewhat engrishy?


Your re-write implies that the church bell tolls constantly, which I don't believe is the intent. From reading a direct translation of the original Japanese lines, I infer that the church bell tolls on the hour (or whenever's typical for church bells of Hyrule) which is mysterious to the townsfolk of Mido since the church is believed to be vacant. That's of course a hint to the player that there's someone still there that Link should try and talk to.

I think the original text, roughly translated as, "The door won't open. It sure is quiet." is meant to invoke a creepy vibe, since a church who's bell still tolls despite being abandoned is definitely eerie. I think the current "awfully quiet" line fails to invoke a creepy vibe mostly because I can't help but think of Elmer Fudd from Looney Tunes.

It's hard for me to suggest a replacement line since I'm not familiar with the text restrictions you must work with.

You do bring up an important point.
I think leaving it in some sort of mention to the silence might be good, and only when the NPC mentions that the bell tolls, that's when the hint should be given to search the church.

If you want to suggest a line, take this restrictions into consideration:
We can work with 6 lines of 11 characters each.
Commas, dots and spaces are considered towards that 11 character count as well.
So something like "The door won't open." Must be split like this:

THE DOOR
WON'T OPEN.

"THE DOOR" takes up 8 characters of length, and "WON'T OPEN." takes up the full 11 characters of the row, including the apostrophe.
With that said, "THE DOOR WON'T OPEN." takes 2 lines, we still have 4 more (of 11 characters each) before we hit the limit of the text box.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 04, 2019, 12:17:23 pm
How about "GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN WEST TO RUTO." ?
Or does it sound somewhat engrishy?

Yeah, that doesn't sound right.  If you mentioned the direction of the candle it would work better, though.  "Go east to get the candle, then west to Ruto."  But that's just an example of how that specific one would work.  Maybe try something like this:

"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN TRAVEL TO RUTO."
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 04, 2019, 12:18:54 pm
Yeah, that doesn't sound right.  If you mentioned the direction of the candle it would work better, though.  "Go east to get the candle, then west to Ruto."  But that's just an example of how that specific one would work.  Maybe try something like this:

"GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN TRAVEL TO RUTO."

I left it like you wrote it first :P
"GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, AND GO WEST TO RUTO."

What do you think about Adam's suggestion?
I think he does bring up a legit point towards that line.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: mdtauk on March 04, 2019, 12:22:58 pm
Quote
GET THE CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN WEST TO RUTO.

FIND THE
CANDLE IN
PARAPA
TEMPLE,
AND GO WEST
TO RUTO.



Quote
THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET.

THE DOOR IS
SHUT. THE
SAFETY BELL
IS SILENT.



Quote
EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO.

WHEN THE
MONSTERS
ATTACKED,
EVERYONE
FLED KASUTO.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 04, 2019, 12:36:39 pm
Well, the lady who mentions the bell says "THE CHURCH IN TOWN HAS NO PRIEST, BUT A BELL ALWAYS TOLLS."  I think the new text for the door works knowing that.  However, it isn't a constant thing like Adam said, but instead something on the hour.  Here some new suggestions:

Lady: "THE CHURCH IN TOWN HAS NO PRIEST, BUT THE BELL DOES TOLL..."

Door: "THE CHURCH IS EMPTY, BUT YOU HEARD THE BELL TOLL..."

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 04, 2019, 12:45:29 pm
Ice Penguin's suggestion could definitely work. I wrote my own before reading his, so I'll post it anyway in case you want a more literal translation:

Door:
THE DOOR
WON'T OPEN.
IT'S EERILY
QUIET.

March 04, 2019, 12:49:00 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Lady: "THE CHURCH IN TOWN HAS NO PRIEST, BUT THE BELL DOES TOLL..."

My take on the lady's text:

THE CHURCH
IN TOWN HAS
NO PRIEST,
AND YET THE
BELL TOLLS.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DannyPlaysSomeGames on March 04, 2019, 05:32:19 pm
Now I just have some doubts about a few lines specifically, let me know what do you think of each rewrite:
  • "THE DOOR WILL NOT OPEN.  IT'S AWFULLY QUIET."
    How about something like "THE DOOR\WILL NOT\OPEN.\ONLY THE\CHURCH BELL\TOLLS..." ?
  • "EVERYONE FLED FROM KASUTO."
    "EVERYONE\FLED FROM\KASUTO WHEN\GANON'S\MINIONS\ATTACKED." ...?
  • "GET THE CANDLE IN PARAPA, GO EAST TO THE NEXT TEMPLE."
    "FIND THE\CANDLE IN\THE PARAPA\TEMPLE,\THEN GO TO\THE WEST." ...?

Here's my take on each line:
"THE DOOR IS LOCKED SHUT. THE ONLY SOUND IS THE BELL'S TOLL."
OR
"THE DOOR WON'T OPEN. ONLY THE BELL'S TOLL CAN BE HEARD."

"EVERYONE FLED OLD KASUTO WHEN GANON'S MINIONS SIEGED IT."

"FIND A CANDLE IN THE PARAPA TEMPLE, THEN GO WEST TO RUTO TOWN."

Also did you fix Town Town?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 04, 2019, 05:54:30 pm
@IcePenguin, just updated the beta IPS with the latest points you mentioned in PM. :)
Be sure to check them out!

Also, yes Danny, the TOWN TOWN thing was fixed long ago I believe :P
Right the next day you mentioned it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 04, 2019, 08:39:21 pm
Got the latest version and tested all dialog again.  Everything looks solid, and makes the game feel more polished all around!  Very nice!   :thumbsup:  I'll do one last play through, testing other areas of the game, like dungeons, enemy placement, etc., and let you know if anything comes up!

There is one last suggestion I have for dialog, but it's not really that important.  The text you have in place now works perfectly fine, but an added pause would make it easier to read.  In-game, the words, along with the commas and apostrophe, make it a bit awkward to read.  Not really a big issue, but thought I'd suggest it as my final test for dialog.

Spoiler:
"PLEASE, MY DAUGHTER IS ILL, SHE IS AT DEATH'S DOOR!"

Please, my daughter is ill... [pause] she is at death's door!

Edit:

There is a red iron knuckle in Palace 4 that has a very high Y-position.  When you enter the screen, it falls pretty much the entire height of the screen.  Here is a fix:

At 0x10B74, change 09 to 79.  This will place the red iron knuckle on the ground.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on March 04, 2019, 09:05:39 pm
By the way, about the West thing. You don't need to translate exactly, but the original Japanese roughly translates to:

"After getting the candle in Parapa Temple, from the West tunnel you can go to the next temple."

That's right, all that information within 4 lines. The word shinden means temple, and kyuuden would refer to a palace. I prefer to use the term "palace", probably because I expect palaces to contain knights and skeletons. Temples are more like sacred places. And dungeons are dark and damp.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 05, 2019, 10:20:39 am
@IcePenguin, suggestion taken and implemented. :)
Good thing I had a few free bytes at the end of that dialogue for the extra dots lol

Patch has been updated in the usual link, as always :)


@Trax, so the original Japanese release also tends to shift around the wording between Palace and Temple?
Just to make it confusing enough :P

I think even the Smash Bros games have renamed the palaces to temples.
One example is the "Great Temple" track in the Smash series, they renamed it from Great Palace.

Still, if some people prefer them to be named "Palaces" instead of "Temples", I could make an additional patch that renames all references from temples to palaces.
Just let me know what do you guys think.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 05, 2019, 11:42:29 am
Considering that Zelda 1 and 2 are sequels to the bad ending of Ocarina of Time it makes more sense to call them temples. Plenty of stalfos and knights in other Zelda Temples afterall ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 05, 2019, 12:42:52 pm
@Trax, so the original Japanese release also tends to shift around the wording between Palace and Temple?
Just to make it confusing enough :P

No, it doesn't. In Japan they're always referred to as "shinden" which could be translated into English as something like holy sanctuary, shrine, or temple. Most localized Zelda games translate it as "temple." Trax was merely saying that in spite of this, he personally prefers the use of "palace." I, on the other hand, prefer the more accurate "temple."

On an unrelated note, if the title screen is going to be modified, I'd personally prefer it to look more like the original art from the FDS version's manual:
(https://i.imgur.com/TO6KvL5.jpg)

I think that sword looks a lot more fitting for a Zelda game than the rather gaudy sword that's on the US boxart.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 05, 2019, 02:11:56 pm
Guess what!  I updated the pause hack.  :P  So it turns out I accidentally set it up in such a way that would allow you to pause the game while playing the flute - but you had to press certain buttons first.  So here is an updated version, and it even uses less code!

This new code will overwrite the location where you put the old pause hack in Redux, so no need to relocate it.

At 0x226D, paste this code:  20 A0 AB EA EA EA EA EA EA 60 EE 24 05 60

At 0x2BB0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
A5 F7 29 10 F0 07 C5 00 F0 03 4C B0 AB 60 FF FF A9 00 CD 27 07 F0 04 EE 24 05 60 A9 58 8D 44 02 A9 89 8D 45 02 A9 01 8D 46 02 A9 70 8D 47 02 A9 58 8D 48 02 A9 8B 8D 49 02 A9 01 8D 4A 02 A9 78 8D 4B 02 A9 58 8D 4C 02 A9 8D 8D 4D 02 A9 01 8D 4E 02 A9 80 8D 4F 02 A9 58 8D 50 02 A9 8F 8D 51 02 A9 01 8D 52 02 A9 88 8D 53 02 A9 58 8D 54 02 A9 91 8D 55 02 A9 01 8D 56 02 A9 90 8D 57 02 A9 58 8D 58 02 A9 93 8D 59 02 A9 01 8D 5A 02 A9 98 8D 5B 02 EE 24 05 A9 18 CD FE 00 F0 06 A9 18 8D FE 00 60 A9 F8 8D FE 00 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF

The extra FF at the end are just to overwrite the excess code of the old version.  I'm still trying to figure out loops, and when I do, I'll be able to shorten this considerably.  Until then, this will have to do, and now it -should- be fully functional.  (like last time, lol  :laugh:)  I tested this new version a ton, but let me know if it works ok for you.

Edit:

Updated the original post with the new code.

Edit:

Finished another full play through of Redux, and I have one last suggestion.  It's regarding enemy Exp in Great Palace.  It is much too low in comparison to other areas in the game, and it's rather underwhelming being the final area of the game and all.  Let's look at some enemies to compare:

Wavy Skull Head
Palace 1-6: 30 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Rope:
Palace 1-6: 20 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Red Iron Knuckle/Red Fokka
Palace 1-6: 100 exp
Great Palace: 70 exp

Blue Iron Knuckle/Blue Fokka
Palace 1-6: 150 exp
Great Palace: 100 exp

Firebird
Palace 1-6:
Great Palace: 200exp

Bubble Slow/Fast:
Palace 1-6: 20/30 exp
Great Palace: 20/20 exp

At this late in the game, it's most likely that the player will be 8-8-8, so they probably wouldn't care about exp, but these enemies should still give more Exp.  I'd say at least 3x more than what they currently give.  Even 2x more exp would be good.  It just surprised me that these much tougher enemies give less exp compared to their weaker variants.  :P  Here is what I suggest:

Wavy Skull Head: 70 exp
Rope: 50 exp
Red Fokka: 200 exp
Blue Fokka: 300 exp
Firebird: 500 exp
Bubble: 50/70 exp (slow/fast)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Vanya on March 05, 2019, 06:12:23 pm
Just my 2 cents, but I prefer the more accurate Temple.
'Palace' always seemed wierd to me.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 06, 2019, 01:25:44 pm
Finished another full play through of Redux, and I have one last suggestion.  It's regarding enemy Exp in Great Palace.  It is much too low in comparison to other areas in the game, and it's rather underwhelming being the final area of the game and all.  Let's look at some enemies to compare:

Wavy Skull Head
Palace 1-6: 30 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Rope:
Palace 1-6: 20 exp
Great Palace: 20 exp

Red Iron Knuckle/Red Fokka
Palace 1-6: 100 exp
Great Palace: 70 exp

Blue Iron Knuckle/Blue Fokka
Palace 1-6: 150 exp
Great Palace: 100 exp

Firebird
Palace 1-6:
Great Palace: 200exp

Bubble Slow/Fast:
Palace 1-6: 20/30 exp
Great Palace: 20/20 exp

At this late in the game, it's most likely that the player will be 8-8-8, so they probably wouldn't care about exp, but these enemies should still give more Exp.  I'd say at least 3x more than what they currently give.  Even 2x more exp would be good.  It just surprised me that these much tougher enemies give less exp compared to their weaker variants.  :P  Here is what I suggest:

Wavy Skull Head: 70 exp
Rope: 50 exp
Red Fokka: 200 exp
Blue Fokka: 300 exp
Firebird: 500 exp
Bubble: 50/70 exp (slow/fast)

Went ahead and modified the following:
I think the Firebird has a good amount of Exp, and it's not that hard to defeat once you get under his fireballs.
Let me know if these are okay :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: wolpak on March 06, 2019, 01:36:49 pm
How feasible or possible is it to make it go 10/10/10?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 06, 2019, 03:29:29 pm
Went ahead and modified the following:
  • 0x0154F5 - Bago Bago bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F6 - Jumping Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F7 - Moving Rope bits - From 85 to 86 (20 -> 30)
  • 0x0154F9 - Slow Bubble bits - From C5 to C7 (20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FA - Fast Bubble bits - From C5 to C8 (20 -> 70)
  • 0x0154FB - Skull Head bits - From 55 to 47 (No longer steals exp, 20 -> 50)
  • 0x0154FE - Red Fokka bits - From 88 to 8B (70 -> 200)
  • 0x0154FF - Blue Fokka bits - From C9 to CC (100 -> 300)
  • 0x015502 - Firebird bits - Left as 8B (200)
I think the Firebird has a good amount of Exp, and it's not that hard to defeat once you get under his fireballs.
Let me know if these are okay :)

That seems good!  Firebird is good at default, I dunno why I suggested 500, that's quite a lot, ha ha!  The new changes to exp are much better than before.   :thumbsup:

How feasible or possible is it to make it go 10/10/10?

It's possible, but would take quite a lot of ASM to pull off.  Then you'd have to do a ton of re-balancing to account for the extra levels, then find room in the HUD to make the 3 extra digits fit.  It's quite limited already.  :P

To add more to the HUD, you'd probably have to sacrifice other elements of it.  If TOO much stuff is added to the HUD, you'll start seeing gfx issues.  I've expanded (health) hearts to 16, but had to greatly revamp the HUD to fit that many extra tiles, and then had change how the game calculates health per (bar) heart.  It was a lot of work just to expand one thing, so expanding the 3 stats, and everything affected by those 3 stats, would require much more.

Something like that would be better for a completely new, full hack of Zelda II.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 07, 2019, 01:40:14 pm
if, and only if, you change all the references to temples/palaces uniform, i like the idea of them being called Temples all except the Great Palace, which in think should stay TGP.

it set's it apart from the others, and leaves it special.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: AdamDravian on March 07, 2019, 02:45:26 pm
if, and only if, you change all the references to temples/palaces uniform, i like the idea of them being called Temples all except the Great Palace, which in think should stay TGP.

it set's it apart from the others, and leaves it special.

I think that would set it too far apart from the others. You spend the game going through these various temples, and then you finish the game in the Great Temple. Makes sense. Calling it the Great Palace disconnects it from the others, making it seem like a different kind of place.

So although I disagree, I understand your attachment to "Great Palace." Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 07, 2019, 05:26:11 pm
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on March 07, 2019, 07:55:18 pm
holy fn that is  :o amazing. insane stuff ice penguin.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 08, 2019, 03:50:21 am
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Nicely done! Jeez, this really is taking Zelda 2 to crazy new heights
You and ShadowOne333 make a great team
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 08, 2019, 10:22:14 am
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

IcePenguin - I've been trying to understand how it works with adding music, so if you share the info, I would be in debt to you.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 08, 2019, 10:24:52 am
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Man I gotta say it one more time, Z2 Redux wouldn't even be half as what it is right now if it weren't for you, Trax's and njosro's help.
I am forever in debt and very grateful to you all for the amazing info and work that you have shared towards this hack.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!

IcePenguin - I've been trying to understand how it works with adding music, so if you share the info, I would be in debt to you.

He said he will document everything once he has it in a more polished state :)
He will first document it all, and then post what he did in here I believe.
But he did said he will make a write up about it, which will greatly help with hacks like yours and maybe even Trax's :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 08, 2019, 10:31:11 am
He said he will document everything once he has it in a more polished state :)
He will first document it all, and then post what he did in here I believe.
But he did said he will make a write up about it, which will greatly help with hacks like yours and maybe even Trax's :)

Yes I know ShadowOne and I am patient. But if you only knew how long I've been trying to figure it out. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: wolpak on March 08, 2019, 02:42:14 pm
ShadowOne asked me about importing the battle theme from the FDS version of Zelda II, so I took a look at the music data for both.  After some experimenting, I successfully expanded music data to allow more songs!  (with help from optomon's music document)  I'm going to write up a detailed explanation of how to do this, but it may take a little more time to do so.  For now, here is a video showing the new battle theme!  For Redux, the FDS battle theme will be played in East Hyrule (as requested by ShadowOne), but I used it in West Hyrule just for the video.   :)
 
https://youtu.be/_htHVzRYjgM

Sick dance moves bro.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 08, 2019, 04:37:13 pm
Edit:
The document was uploaded!  :)  I submitted an update already, version 1.2, so be sure to get that when it's approved.  It adds a bunch of new info that was found over the weekend, and puts the document in a complete state.  It's around 27kb in size.

http://www.romhacking.net/documents/798/

Sorry it took so long to post the details, but I finally finished writing up the explanation for expanding music.   In the end, it turned out to be suuuuuper long!  It's like a full on document, so I ended up submitting it to RHDN for upload.  There was a lot to cover, and I don't think I could go over all of it within a single post, ha ha.  :P

ultimaweapon, I remember you were interested in how to change songs for areas, so this document will help you.  It's not a simple task, but I explained it as best I could.  So hopefully when it is uploaded, you'll find it useful!

ShadowOne, I'll create an IPS patch for Redux that plays the battle theme in East Hyrule.  That way you have it as part of the documentation and progress for Redux.  I'll send the IPS via email.  Be sure to check out the document, as well, if you want to learn more about music.

After spending time experimenting with music data, I think it'd be possible to have a unique song for every area of the game.  There is certainly plenty of free space!  When the file is uploaded, I'll post a link in this topic.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 11, 2019, 12:02:39 pm
Wow IcePenguin :o
The work put into the music hack is outstanding!

Just gave a read to the documentation, and damn it was a lot of work.
Hopefully more Zelda II hacks can make use of it, I know ultimaweapon might be happy :P
Hope this helps Trax's hack as well.

Thank you so much, IcePenguin!

I have already test out the hack and it's working fine so far :)
Updated the IPS in the link in the OP.
That IPS should have the FDS battle theme restored, but it will only be used in East Hyrule, while West Hyrule will keep the original NES battle theme.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 11, 2019, 04:29:08 pm
Thanks!  The document ended up covering a lot more than I thought it would, that's for sure!  It wasn't too much effort, though, because optomon provided most of the data in his document.  Not sure it would've gone so smoothly without his help!  Hopefully someone finds some use from it.

This whole thing kinda makes me wonder about some of the other differences between the FDS and NES versions...
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SpringSonic9187 on March 11, 2019, 05:38:30 pm
This whole thing kinda makes me wonder about some of the other differences between the FDS and NES versions...
Name it your best friend: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: itemdrop on March 11, 2019, 06:17:33 pm
I really think of the FDS version as a beta version. NA version is just overall more complete and well rounded. Not to mention the WAIT factor of the FDS version really hampers the pace of the game.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on March 11, 2019, 07:49:55 pm
I'd like to see the Battle music randomized. Fifty percent chance for each theme. I think the idea of having one for each region is good, too.

By the way, Ice Penguin, a few more details about your music document. I think you may have some offsets that are, well, offset from the ones expected. I know that you use ROM offsets and not "real" ones. In section 4, it reads: "Starting at 0x1A00A, count $55 bytes ahead to reach 0x1A070." But, 0x1A00A + 0x55 = 0x1A05F. You are off by one byte. This makes the data entry more like:

Code: [Select]
18 42 A2 0D 09 15
The first byte is the Note Lengths offset. It's a multiple of 8, and is an offset into the table at 0x1914D (+0x10) :

Code: [Select]
1914D: Table for Music Note Lengths ? (6 * 8 = 30 bytes)

04 0C 08 10 18 20 05 06 ?
04 0F 09 12 1B 24 06 06 Battle
05 0F 0A 14 1E 28 07 06 Boss
06 12 0C 18 24 30 08 10 Overworld, Palace, Item
07 15 0E 1C 2A 38 13 12 Town, House
07 15 0E 1C 2A 38 09 0A ?

For any given song, you basically have 8 choices of note lengths. The bytes that represent the actual notes of the songs refer to these length values.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 11, 2019, 08:29:41 pm
Alternatively (just throwing it out there) you could have different songs for the easy and hard enemies. The FDS battle theme def sounds like a theme for harder enemies haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 11, 2019, 08:48:58 pm
I'd like to see the Battle music randomized. Fifty percent chance for each theme. I think the idea of having one for each region is good, too.

By the way, Ice Penguin, a few more details about your music document. I think you may have some offsets that are, well, offset from the ones expected. I know that you use ROM offsets and not "real" ones. In section 4, it reads: "Starting at 0x1A00A, count $55 bytes ahead to reach 0x1A070." But, 0x1A00A + 0x55 = 0x1A05F. You are off by one byte. This makes the data entry more like:

Code: [Select]
18 42 A2 0D 09 15
The first byte is the Note Lengths offset. It's a multiple of 8, and is an offset into the table at 0x1914D (+0x10) :

Code: [Select]
1914D: Table for Music Note Lengths ? (6 * 8 = 30 bytes)

04 0C 08 10 18 20 05 06 ?
04 0F 09 12 1B 24 06 06 Battle
05 0F 0A 14 1E 28 07 06 Boss
06 12 0C 18 24 30 08 10 Overworld, Palace, Item
07 15 0E 1C 2A 38 13 12 Town, House
07 15 0E 1C 2A 38 09 0A ?

For any given song, you basically have 8 choices of note lengths. The bytes that represent the actual notes of the songs refer to these length values.

Randomized battle theme would be really neat.  I think that could be easily achievable if we used the frame counter.  Since it's always being incremented, a check could be done to determine which song is played.  Though there probably is a better way...

Thanks for the feedback on the music document!  It could definitely use improvement, so any advice is really appreciated.  Yeah, I have a bad habit of using file addresses instead of real addresses.  I understand it's important to use NES address when writing code, or sharing snippets of ASM code.  I just like using file address when giving directions to a location.  I'm sure as I learn more, and get better at ASM my view on that will change.  :P

About your comment on section 4 of the document, from my understanding of how optomon explained it, he does say to count from 0x1A00A, but I always counted from 0x1A00B.  I wasn't sure how to go about explaining this part, so I stuck with what optomon said since he knows better than I do.

The Note Length offset you mentioned, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the last byte in the phrase structure.  That's how it was in the FDS version, and even when porting the battle theme over, it used that same 6 byte structure between the two versions.  The original code from the FDS version was way too fast, so I used this byte to slow it down.  I'm not sure what to think about optomon saying 0x1A00A, to be honest, but I'm confident it's the last byte.

Edit:
I looked at that specific line you quoted from the document: "Starting at 0x1A00A, count $55 bytes ahead to reach 0x1A070."  I made a mistake.  It should be 0x1A060!  That's the start of the battle theme phrase structure.  42 A2 0D 09 15 08

I didn't experiment too much with the actual notation of the music, since composing music, or anything related to that, really confuses me.  Does the table you referenced act as sort of a "global" tempo for any phrase in the song?  I don't quite understand the connection between the Note Length byte and how the table affects note length.  Also, the table sections being labeled as "?, Battle, Boss, etc." how are those related exactly?

Alternatively (just throwing it out there) you could have different songs for the easy and hard enemies. The FDS battle theme def sounds like a theme for harder enemies haha

This would be really neat, too! 


Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 13, 2019, 02:17:22 pm
Seems like we are on the finishing line, guys :)
Everything that I wanted to implement, improve or modify, has been added so far successfully thanks to the help of IcePenguin, Trax, njosro, and many others which have given their thoughts and feedback regarding this hack.

I'll wait for DarkSamus to take his time to finish the menus hack, and I think that should be it for Redux!
:D
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Heaven Piercing Man on March 13, 2019, 04:12:03 pm
There are sidescrolling segments that use the battle theme, will these also fall under the theme randomization? These segments seem a little too peaceful for the FDS battle theme.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 13, 2019, 04:47:39 pm
I was quite intrigued by Trax's suggestion for randomized battle theme, so I made a way to do it.  It uses the frame counter.  If you enter any side-scrolling battle scene when the frame counter is 80, or above, it will play the normal NES battle theme.  If it is below 80, it will play the FDS battle theme.  The frame counter is being incremented constantly, so there is no telling what it will be when you enter a battle.  After playing around with it for a bit, I was able to hear both versions pretty regularly.  If adding this doesn't interest you, no worry, I just made it for fun and to see if I could.  :P

Spoiler:
At 0x600, you'll find this code:  EE 26 07

This code increments ram address $726, which is the black transition screen when loading a battle scene.  It hides the loading gfx.

Add a JSR here, so change it to:  20 F0 A8

At 0x2900, paste this code:  EE 26 07 A5 12 85 F2 60

This is creating a temporary copy of the frame counter at $F2 to determine which song to play.  Since the frame counter is reset to 00 every time the battle scene is finished loading, we will store a copy of it the moment you initiate the loading, hence using the transition routine.

Now we'll just overwrite some old code that plays the FDS battle theme only in East Hyrule, and check the frame counter copy, instead.

At 0x28E0, paste this code:

A6 F2 E0 80 30 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60 FF

At 0x19DD0, paste this code:

A5 F2 C9 80 30 05 A9 04 85 EB 60 A9 08 85 EB A9 00 8D 02 07 60 FF

At 0x1FEC4, paste this code:

A5 F2 C9 80 30 06 A9 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 A9 00 8D 02 07 60 FF

These 3 chunks of code check ram address $F2, which we set up to be a temporary check on the frame counter, and plays either the NES or FDS battle theme.  This will be applied to every area on the overworld.  (caves, secrets, encounters, etc.)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 13, 2019, 04:54:25 pm
I was quite intrigued by Trax's suggestion for randomized battle theme, so I made a way to do it.  It uses the frame counter.  If you enter any side-scrolling battle scene when the frame counter is 80, or above, it will play the normal NES battle theme.  If it is below 80, it will play the FDS battle theme.  The frame counter is being incremented constantly, so there is no telling what it will be when you enter a battle.  After playing around with it for a bit, I was able to hear both versions pretty regularly.  If adding this doesn't interest you, no worry, I just made it for fun and to see if I could.  :P

Spoiler:
At 0x600, you'll find this code:  EE 26 07

This code increments ram address $726, which is the black transition screen when loading a battle scene.  It hides the loading gfx.

Add a JSR here, so change it to:  20 F0 A8

At 0x2900, paste this code:  EE 26 07 A5 12 85 F2 60

This is creating a temporary copy of the frame counter at $F2 to determine which song to play.  Since the frame counter is reset to 00 every time the battle scene is finished loading, we will store a copy of it the moment you initiate the loading, hence using the transition routine.

Now we'll just overwrite some old code that plays the FDS battle theme only in East Hyrule, and check the frame counter copy, instead.

At 0x28E0, paste this code:

A6 F2 E0 80 30 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60 FF

At 0x19DD0, paste this code:

A5 F2 C9 80 30 05 A9 04 85 EB 60 A9 08 85 EB A9 00 8D 02 07 60 FF

At 0x1FEC4, paste this code:

A5 F2 C9 80 30 06 A9 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 A9 00 8D 02 07 60 FF

These 3 chunks of code check ram address $F2, which we set up to be a temporary check on the frame counter, and plays either the NES or FDS battle theme.  This will be applied to every area on the overworld.  (caves, secrets, encounters, etc.)

Can be made into an optional patch if you want to :P
Let me know if you agree!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 13, 2019, 05:03:36 pm
Can be made into an optional patch if you want to :P
Let me know if you agree!

I think having it just in East Hyrule is good.  Gives that section of the game more intensity, and makes it feel more unique when compared to West Hyrule.  Seems more fitting to be in the later parts of the game, because it sounds more dire.  I just did the randomized version as a learning experience.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 13, 2019, 05:12:54 pm
I think having it just in East Hyrule is good.  Gives that section of the game more intensity, and makes it feel more unique when compared to West Hyrule.  Seems more fitting to be in the later parts of the game, because it sounds more dire.  I just did the randomized version as a learning experience.

I agree, it does feel like you are getting near the end of the game, and the stakes are getting high :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 13, 2019, 07:36:33 pm
There are sidescrolling segments that use the battle theme, will these also fall under the theme randomization? These segments seem a little too peaceful for the FDS battle theme.

This crossed my mind before.  The FDS battle theme does seem a bit extreme for single screen areas with a fairy, life doll, heart, etc.  Creating a condition check for every one of those maps could be easily done.  It would be interesting to have a more peaceful track, like maybe the theme played in houses.  That will be left to ShadowOne's decision.  If it's something he is interested in, I can look into it.  The code is set up to use any song, there just needs to be those condition checks for each secret area.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on March 13, 2019, 09:36:19 pm
Or no music at all...

I think there's a unused bit in the level data's headers, so that could be used to setup different songs according to each area.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 14, 2019, 10:33:58 am
This crossed my mind before.  The FDS battle theme does seem a bit extreme for single screen areas with a fairy, life doll, heart, etc.  Creating a condition check for every one of those maps could be easily done.  It would be interesting to have a more peaceful track, like maybe the theme played in houses.  That will be left to ShadowOne's decision.  If it's something he is interested in, I can look into it.  The code is set up to use any song, there just needs to be those condition checks for each secret area.

This sounds kinda neat actually.
For the Fairy one, the house theme sounds good, for the doll/hearts/magic jar, perhaps the original battle theme?
I'm not sure, but that does sound like a neat idea to implement :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on March 14, 2019, 12:18:48 pm
If only inserting/creating music was easier... A mild "encounter" theme could have a lot of uses.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 23, 2019, 04:33:10 am
Did some more testing, and found that the new FDS theme needed an additional condition check.  Currently, if you die in a palace, the music won't play the correct song ID (04) when you die.  Instead, it uses the new code for playing song ID (08) which is the boss music, or in great palace the credits theme. (08 is also the FDS theme while on the overworld)

At 0x28E0, paste this code over the old code:

AE 07 07 E0 00 D0 07 AE 06 07 E0 02 F0 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60

The new condition checks if you are on the world map ($707), or in a palace, so it knows to play the correct song - including the FDS theme in East Hyrule.

Anyway, sorry I haven't been on lately.  I've been busy, so I haven't had time to sit down and do any romhacking stuff.  :(  Still looking forward to the completion of Redux!

Edit:

Also, there is a bridge room in great palace that has no enemies.  This room is along the path you take to the end, so you can't miss it.  Maybe you could change its enemy pointer data to use the enemies from another bridge room.  (bago bago enemies?)  It'd be a simple 2 byte change.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: azul120 on March 23, 2019, 03:33:24 pm
Is there anyone creating vids for these yet? Previews for each patch would be helpful.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on March 24, 2019, 08:42:33 pm
I'll likely do another playthrough when these guys are ready but individual updates are a no go for me sorry
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 24, 2019, 09:05:16 pm
i would like to check out each update too. just to play around, but i want the optional patches too!

Spoiler:
a patch that mirrors the game from beginning to end made a LoZ1 playthrough into a totally new experience, perhaps one for AoL-Redux could work?
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4279/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 25, 2019, 12:00:10 pm
Did some more testing, and found that the new FDS theme needed an additional condition check.  Currently, if you die in a palace, the music won't play the correct song ID (04) when you die.  Instead, it uses the new code for playing song ID (08) which is the boss music, or in great palace the credits theme. (08 is also the FDS theme while on the overworld)

At 0x28E0, paste this code over the old code:

AE 07 07 E0 00 D0 07 AE 06 07 E0 02 F0 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60

The new condition checks if you are on the world map ($707), or in a palace, so it knows to play the correct song - including the FDS theme in East Hyrule.

Anyway, sorry I haven't been on lately.  I've been busy, so I haven't had time to sit down and do any romhacking stuff.  :(  Still looking forward to the completion of Redux!

Edit:

Also, there is a bridge room in great palace that has no enemies.  This room is along the path you take to the end, so you can't miss it.  Maybe you could change its enemy pointer data to use the enemies from another bridge room.  (bago bago enemies?)  It'd be a simple 2 byte change.


Thanks for the update on the code, IcePenguin!
Just updated the patch, link is in the OP as always!

Also, I did notice that bridge room you mention.
I'm all in for the idea of making it use the enemy pointer data from the other bridge room.
What 2 bytes would I need to change to make so?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 25, 2019, 03:32:01 pm
There are actually 2 rooms that have no enemies.  That bridge room I already mentioned, and the room right before it with the elevator.  Here is the data for both:

0x145BC:  Change from 70 00 to 70 5F.  (elevator room)
0x145BE:  Change from 70 00 to 70 0E.  (bridge room)

This will add 2 firebird enemies to the elevator room, using the data from another elevator room, and also add bago bago enemies to the bridge using another bridge.

Also, here is another suggestion that I always thought would make Great Palace a little more non-linear and forgiving.  You know that room near the end where you break the blocks to drop down?  Well, this room basically makes half of the Great Palace useless beyond a first playthrough.  I made a little edit to some of the blocks to open this path, allowing a player to use 3 paths to reach the end.  New players now won't be greeted with a massive dead end if they take the wrong path, and experienced players will have an option to choose another path if they want to change things up.  Just a thought.  If you like this idea, change these bytes:

0x14A96, change 60 9E to A0 3E.

This is what it will look like after:

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/kV7TYA7.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 25, 2019, 04:03:58 pm
Oh the idea about the Great Palace having multiple paths is quite nice!
I kinda like it, and makes it bumping into the very end of the Great Palace only to know that you chose the wrong path quite a nice change.

I like it, and certainly helps a lot with the maze that the Great Palace is already.
Made the change, updated the patch in the OP :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 25, 2019, 05:00:57 pm
Seems like it'll be a good change, especially for newcomers!  In all my times playing this, that side of the Great Palace always intrigued me.  I used to think it was for hiding some super awesome secret. (like the red ring from Zelda 1)  There are about 6 unused rooms in Great Palace, so maybe that could be included as bonus content - like how Nintendo adds bonus content in their remasters, remakes, etc.

At some point in this topic, I think someone mentioned fighting the bosses from each palace somewhere in the Great Palace.  That would be pretty cool.

Anyway, I forgot to point out another suggestion for Great Palace.  The room before the Thunderbird Boss room has 2 red potions in it.  In my opinion, this is a bit too much, so perhaps one of those red potions could be a giant bot?  There aren't enough of those enemies, and the more the better, haha!  Plus, they are fun to fight!  :P

0x149CE, change 77 45 to 17 DE.

This will change one of the red potions into a giant bot and place it in the same position as the giant bot from the room that is similar to this one.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 25, 2019, 06:37:37 pm
Oh nice!
Yeah I know what room you are talking about, that one felt curiously empty for some reason.
I was also expecting a King Bot to appear there, but nothing.
Added that code, wouldn't hurt at all to be honest :P
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Zanemato on March 29, 2019, 04:17:43 am
I tried the new patch, the work is amazing

Is it normal that, when I save and quit in the 1st palace (as soon as I arrive to the palace), it takes me back to Hyrule Castle with the music of the palace looping?

I don't know if this bug is known or not

I hope it's gonna be fixed later somehow

Thanks again for this amazing work !
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on March 29, 2019, 07:59:56 am
Is it normal that, when I save and quit in the 1st palace (as soon as I arrive to the palace), it takes me back to Hyrule Castle with the music of the palace looping?

Thanks for pointing that out!  The code was set up to allow songs to be played from any region, but since this isn't really necessary in Redux, it can be removed.  I should've taken this into consideration... sorry about that!  The reason you experience this bug is because the new byte in memory $702 didn't get reset to 00 when you save and quit.

ShadowOne, to fix this, change this:

At 0x19B91, change 02 to 07.

The new code was set up to use $702 for the world location copy, but it will probably never be used, so it can remain as the default $707.  If in the future we need to use $702 for the world location copy, then we'd have to reset it with new code when you save and quit.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 29, 2019, 11:32:14 am
Oh I didn't notice that before.
Thanks for the quick fix and feedback!
Just fixed it, the updated patch should be in the OP as always. :)

If anyone else finds something out of place, please let us know!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Zanemato on March 29, 2019, 12:12:16 pm
Thanks for pointing that out!  The code was set up to allow songs to be played from any region, but since this isn't really necessary in Redux, it can be removed.  I should've taken this into consideration... sorry about that!  The reason you experience this bug is because the new byte in memory $702 didn't get reset to 00 when you save and quit.

ShadowOne, to fix this, change this:

At 0x19B91, change 02 to 07.

The new code was set up to use $702 for the world location copy, but it will probably never be used, so it can remain as the default $707.  If in the future we need to use $702 for the world location copy, then we'd have to reset it with new code when you save and quit.

Oh, my pleasure. If I find anything else, I'll report it. I'll restart the game with the updated patch and play as much as I can until the end of the game. I'll give my feedback as soon as possible.

Take care everyone !
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 02, 2019, 04:36:06 pm
I should really start a playthrough of my own with the current beta :laugh:
I am assuming everyone else has found zero issues so far with the current beta, so it seems to be worth a full playthrough :)
If all goes well, only DarkSamus' menu hack remains to mark this hack as completed, and up with its proper Hack page!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 02, 2019, 09:05:54 pm
what exactly is this "menu hack" that has yet to be finished? sorry if i skimmed over a post explaining it. thanks

---edit---

just saw this on page 1

"Make it so Up/Down on the D-Pad moves the fairy cursor in the menus accordingly (File Selection and Elimination Mode). DarkSamus993 is currently working on this."

so (if i am right) all this does is make up and down move the selector (which normally only scrolls in one direction with "select" button)

that's not really that big of a deal really, i am just dying waiting to play around with those "optional" extra patches.
like, we need to be testing those buggers out, lol.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 03, 2019, 12:48:13 pm
what exactly is this "menu hack" that has yet to be finished? sorry if i skimmed over a post explaining it. thanks

---edit---

just saw this on page 1

"Make it so Up/Down on the D-Pad moves the fairy cursor in the menus accordingly (File Selection and Elimination Mode). DarkSamus993 is currently working on this."

so (if i am right) all this does is make up and down move the selector (which normally only scrolls in one direction with "select" button)

that's not really that big of a deal really, i am just dying waiting to play around with those "optional" extra patches.
like, we need to be testing those buggers out, lol.

Well aside from moving the cursor with Up/Down, I believe DarkSamus993 also wanted to implement some sort of Copy/Delete file system.
We can already delete a file, but I think he wanted to implement a copy system too.
From what we have so far, the only remaining is Up/Down in the Elimination mode, and the Copy system (if DarkSamus wants to go with it).
I'm fine with only the Elimination mode having Up/Down implemented, but if he wants to add the Copy save file system, that'd be neat too :)

Also, if you want to test the optional patches out, I already posted them some pages ago:

As far as I know, they shouldn't overwrite other data.
Still though, it would be nice to check beforehand, you can get them all here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d2iyb368nt409x8/AACaS0GW4RT0S3bMZ8LXUJ25a?dl=0

Do you have a way to check if they conflict between each other and/or with Redux?

As for the list of the Optional Patches and what they do, here:
  • FDSKingsTomb.ips
    This patch restores the layout of the King's Tomb screen to resemble that of the Famicom release of Zelda II.
  • KeepExpAtGameOver.ips
    Like its name says, this patch will make it so that even if you get a Game Over, you will keep the Exp you gained.
  • NewExp.ips
    A completely revamped Exp system courtesy of IcePenguin! This system makes it so that you will no longer get the Level Up window prompt once you reach the required Exp for a new level. Instead, Experience points will now accumulate, and once you want to Level Up a certain ability, press Up+Start will automatically bring up the Level Up menu, even if you don't have enough Exp for a level up. In that case, the only available option will be "Cancel".
  • OriginalLinkDolls.ips
    As the name implies, this restores the functionality of the Zelda II Link dolls to be the same as in the original Zelda II.
  • RestartSameAtScreenGameOver.ips
    This patch makes it so that when you get a Game Over, you restart in the same screen that you died on, instead of being brought back to the beginning of the current palace or Zelda's Palace in the case of the overworld.
  • StaticExpAtPalaceCrystal.ips
    At the end of each palace, where you put the crystal into it, you used to get an undefined amount of Exp, until you leveled up. With this patch, each crystal put into a palace gives you a determined amount of Exp:
    Palace 1 = 500 exp
    Palace 2 = 1000 exp
    Palace 3 = 1500 exp
    Palace 4 = 2000 exp
    Palace 5 = 2500 exp
    Palace 6 = 3000 exp
  • Secret.ips
    ???

Let me know if I missed one detail in one of them or something so I can add it to their description!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 03, 2019, 04:52:51 pm
i'm crazy, i thought that was a description only, didn't realize it was a link

 :banghead:

lol, so now i have my 5 patches patched and i'm playing great, and from time to time my Exp shoots right up to 9999 when i enter a new screen, is that the "secret" patch?

if not, maybe i patched them in the wrong order, or they are conflicting in some way,

anyways, i LOVE the "new experience" patch so much, with it not constantly popping up on the player, it's so much more freeing
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 03, 2019, 05:00:34 pm
Nope that's not the Secret :P
The Experience shooting up to 9999 at times might be a bug.
Also, as far as I know none of the optional patches should collide, neither with each other nor with Redux, so I know that's not the problem.
Maybe it's a bug with the Experience code or something.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 03, 2019, 06:26:22 pm
from time to time my Exp shoots right up to 9999 when i enter a new screen...

Maybe it's a bug with the Experience code or something.

Ah, sorry about that.  It's not a bug with the exp code, but instead I accidentally overlapped the music code with the exp code in the optional patch, ha ha.   :-[  Both are working fine, I just forgot that the space was already used.  Most of the hacks were done in a clean rom, and it's easy to forget where code is.

All you have to do is move the code for the music.

At 0x28D0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF AD 07 07 8D 02 07 A9 02 85 EB 60 FF FF FF FF FF AE 07 07 E0 00 D0 07 AE 06 07 E0 02 F0 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60

This is just moving the music code down by 0x30 bytes, so it doesn't overlap with the exp code from the optional patch.

Next, update the two JSR that use the music code.

At 0x8A1, replace 20 C0 A8 with 20 F0 A8.

At 0x1C446, replace 20 D0 A8 with 20 00 A9.

Again, sorry about the oversight!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SpringSonic9187 on April 03, 2019, 06:41:53 pm
Ah, sorry about that.  It's not a bug with the exp code, but instead I accidentally overlapped the music code with the exp code in the optional patch, ha ha.   :-[  Both are working fine, I just forgot that the space was already used.  Most of the hacks were done in a clean rom, and it's easy to forget where code is.

All you have to do is move the code for the music.

At 0x28D0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF AD 07 07 8D 02 07 A9 02 85 EB 60 FF FF FF FF FF AE 07 07 E0 00 D0 07 AE 06 07 E0 02 F0 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60

This is just moving the music code down by 0x30 bytes, so it doesn't overlap with the exp code from the optional patch.

Next, update the two JSR that use the music code.

At 0x8A1, replace 20 C0 A8 with 20 F0 A8.

At 0x1C446, replace 20 D0 A8 with 20 00 A9.

Again, sorry about the oversight!
At least I uploaded a private, non-shared save file of mine on my Google Drive, just for fun. All 3 levels at max, no other progress made, everything else untouched, used the one with the overlapped code for that. I'm not sharing the link because I'm kinda scared.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 03, 2019, 06:49:17 pm
ok, cool. came here to report west Hyrule overworld music also glitching out/disappearing. 

so it was an issue with the Exp patch. lol yeah i have a rom with maxxed stats too, for a "hyper easy" mode i guess.

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 04, 2019, 10:43:54 am
Ah, sorry about that.  It's not a bug with the exp code, but instead I accidentally overlapped the music code with the exp code in the optional patch, ha ha.   :-[  Both are working fine, I just forgot that the space was already used.  Most of the hacks were done in a clean rom, and it's easy to forget where code is.

All you have to do is move the code for the music.

At 0x28D0, paste this code:

Spoiler:
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF AD 07 07 8D 02 07 A9 02 85 EB 60 FF FF FF FF FF AE 07 07 E0 00 D0 07 AE 06 07 E0 02 F0 04 8D 5F 07 60 A9 08 8D 5F 07 60

This is just moving the music code down by 0x30 bytes, so it doesn't overlap with the exp code from the optional patch.

Next, update the two JSR that use the music code.

At 0x8A1, replace 20 C0 A8 with 20 F0 A8.

At 0x1C446, replace 20 D0 A8 with 20 00 A9.

Again, sorry about the oversight!

Ah so it was an overlap between the two hacks.
Makes sense, since I remember we did the check for all patches before the music patch was introduced.

Thanks for the fix!
It's already implemented, and the updated patch is in the OP now :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Lazermutt4 on April 04, 2019, 02:35:23 pm
I encountered a problem with one of the extra patches. The "keep EXP at Game Over" patch will not allow you to save, either manually or at Game Over.

The results were slightly different depending on the emulator (none of them all that good):
Best case was QuickNES, where selecting Save did nothing. You could then choose to continue.
Most others, like FCEUX, it hung there forever.
Worst case, on the NES Classic, it threw up a C6 error and wiped my saves.

Picking Continue first works like it should.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 15, 2019, 05:36:23 am
I seem to be having a flash of damaged sprites on every fourth frame of animation on the world map
Is there a way around this?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: NiO on June 15, 2019, 08:09:32 am
Im not much of a fan of the Zelda series, but seems like a lot of love and effort has been put in this hack, seems pretty good all you have change.

Good luck, Im interested on taking a look at the final version of this.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on June 15, 2019, 08:56:07 am
I seem to be having a flash of damaged sprites on every fourth frame of animation on the world map
Is there a way around this?

Do you have a pic of that happening?

Im not much of a fan of the Zelda series, but seems like a lot of love and effort has been put in this hack, seems pretty good all you have change.

Good luck, Im interested on taking a look at the final version of this.

Thanks!
Hopefully the final release is not too far away :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on June 16, 2019, 01:26:57 pm
I'll do you one better. Heres a quick test video via Mesen - https://youtu.be/374YeNbGdL4
It has worse results with Nestopia and I patched this to the same rom I patched everything else with using flips. This is plain Redux beta without the optional patches though ideally, i'd like to get them working too. Although the fairy file select would be nice, i'm itching to do another playthrough haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Mattiac on June 16, 2019, 04:48:21 pm
Can someone please tell me if there's three available tiles? I wish to add the Swedish characters Å, Ä and Ö. I'm using the PAL version. Maybe I can just draw dots on A and O somehow?

It would be great if all your changes were available as patches. I would like to have six lines of text for the NPC for example. Thank you in advance if possible!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: kamikaze55 on June 17, 2019, 10:11:12 am
Hello! I was just turned onto this mod by a friend of mine who also comments in these forums. First, I would like to give a bit of info about myself in relation to Zelda 2 as I feel that it's necessary. I will point blank state here at the beginning of this reply that I am new here and I do not mean for any of this to sound or feel condescending or to be critical for the sake of being critical. Everything written below is with absolute respect!

I have been playing Zelda II since it's original NES release. It's my favorite of the two Zelda's for the NES and it is quite high...almost number one on my all time favorite games list. I play both the NES and the FDS(Famicom Disk System) original frequently. I actually play more of the FDS version than the NES version nowadays. You may or may not know some of what I mention from this point on. I will mention the following things as if you don't know...not that you don't but it's for an explanation's sake.

I have been looking for some time for an "ultimate" version of Zelda II for years. I will point blank state that most mods to this particular game are insulting and downright terrible specifically for purists lol. By "Ultimate" version I basically mean taking the FDS and NES versions and combining them. Taking the good parts of the original FDS and good parts of the NES version and combining them. For instance, the Palace palettes and textures in the NES version are by far superior to that of the FDS version. In the FDS version the textures of the palaces are pretty much identical to the first palace while there are only two colors...Grey and that funky Green...while the NES version has different palettes and textures for each palace.

If this is the case...so why not just play the NES version? Because the FDS version has incredible strengths to it. Some things aren't actually strengths...they are more preferences than anything. The FDS version's music is by far superior to that of the NES version. Both the original Famicom and the NES have only one sound channel. Therefore the music is more of a Mono version. Because the FDS was an addon to the Famicom, it contained an extra sound channel. This of course caused the ability for the Famicom paired with the FDS to have superior sound i.e. Stereo. The original makers of the FDS and games exploited this to the max.

The thing that I view as a "strength" to the FDS version that some might consider to be more of a preference is the leveling system. The leveling system in the FDS version was far more free compared to the NES version. Each time you hit the exp goal...50/100/150/200 etc. you can level any one of the three. There is no restriction to one specific ability. Whereas they changed this for the NES version by restricting access to which ability can be leveled when.

The FDS version is easier in this respect as you can level the Sword all the way to 5 before leaving the first Palace. They also changed the amount of exp required in the end. The max exp to get each ability to 8 is 4000 exp in the FDS version. While in the NES version it's of course, 8000 exp and 9000 gives extra lives.

So after all of this explanation...I've been looking for someone with the vision to basically combine the FDS and NES versions to create the most complete version between the two. However, no one has had the vision for this. If I were code literate...I would do it without question but I'm not. Which when explaining this to a friend...led me to your mod. I didn't know it existed...probably because the plethora of mods I have seen...are insulting, not just to me but to the original makers of the game from a purist perspective. Most mods alter pretty much everything. The end result is a highly tampered with Mod that changes the game entirely. Either making the game incredibly difficult by adding new content entirely or dumbing down everything to make it incredibly easy as if you are playing "Super Link". With this said, I have almost entirely avoided any kind of mod for this game. I do not necessarily look down on making this game easier at all. However, there is a point where the game is so easy...what's the point of playing it?

That is...until my friend led me to your mod of this game. He basically said paraphrasing "what you are describing sounds like this mod". I will entirely admit that I was hesitant.

I have played your mod for Zelda II for the past three weeks or so, Seven times total all the way through to the end of the game. Visually, I'm incredibly impressed. I loved your changes to the title screen and most especially the Link sprite. I almost cried at this. It's not only an accurate representation of the Link sprite in unison with most of the other Zelda games, it's respectful. This is entirely what made me actually care to delve further into the game and play it completely. As I have stated, up to this point...Seven times total all the way through. Most of the things in this mod are great.

There are a few small criticisms. I do not mean to sound disrespectful to you...you have abilities and an obvious incredible talent for modding games. This is the first mod that I have personally ever seen that is respectful to the game and the changes are done incredibly well. If it is okay, I would like to point out just a few small things.

1. Why not use the FDS music score for this game instead of the NES version? I know that you used one of the songs from the FDS version later in the game for the side-scrolling scenes in East Hyrule. I would argue that since the FDS versions music is superior, why not