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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm

Title: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 01:29:52 pm
Some weeks ago user @njosro started a topic about his Zelda II - Restart from Palace hack, which makes it so that the game restarts you at the start of a palace you currently are after a Game over or Continue.
This inspired me to further hack Zelda II to more or less alleviate the most obnoxious things which takes away from making Zelda II a more enjoyable experience.

Here is the patch for the beta (Updated with each release):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

And here's the changelog of the hack compared to vanilla Zelda II so far:


If anyone can give a full run of the game and let me know how the changes feel, please let me know.

I am also seeking out for suggestions and things that could make Zelda II a better experience over all.
If you have any suggestions, please feel free to post them here!
I'll analyze them and try to add them if I feel fit.

One thing worth nothing though, is that I most likely won't be modifying any graphics for sure, nor implement whole new spell behaviours or anything like that.
I'll try to focus on 1) Rebalancing the game, 2) Modify stuff which is already obnoxious in-game, 3) Perhaps rewriting some lines which don't make sense in the game.
Though, if any of you still have some ideas which you think might add to the game and are somewhat doable, please feel free to let me know :)

TODO list:

HELP NEEDED FOR:

Possible enemy modifications:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 15, 2018, 03:36:30 pm
All the things you listed sound great so far, if I could add any one thing to it, I would speed up the NPC text.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 15, 2018, 04:20:56 pm
Nice work. :)

Would be cool to see these things fixed/improved:
-Sword attack is canceled if you swing right before landing or jumping
-Need to reselect spells in every new screen/room before use and after using a spell once you need to reselect it again
-Accumulated exp is wasted when you finish a dungeon and level up instantly
-A smaller world map, less dead space (if possible it would be nice to be able to enter a village from either side - except for the river town)
-More even experience balancing in the early game with tougher/larger enemies giving a bit more exp
-Faster dialogue text (shows the whole message with one press, removes it with the next)
-More uses for tools and rarely used spells in dungeons
-(more out there) Implement the boomerang or the bow
-Shorten the beeping when low on health - 3-4 times is enough
-(a lot of work) redesign the game to be more non-linear in structure, like Zelda 1
-Make MP drops a bit more common overall, or just early on (for example the statue outside the first palace could drop one, like the later ones do)
-(more out there) Implement manual blocking of enemies moving into you with the shield, by pressing a button combo
-Make it possible to see how much you have left to reach each stat level at will instead of just when you level up
-Maybe switch around some dialogue to make clues harder to miss

-You could also remove the ability to jump attack enemies like the knights in the face to skip the duels, though that's more controversial
-Might also be controversial: remove the knockback when hitting enemies (but not the blocks if possible)
-Might also be controversial: make it hard to bounce past enemies using downthrust

I personally didn't mind the exp stealing enemies that much, maybe it could be an optional feature.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 15, 2018, 05:09:44 pm
Oh the text speed is one that I haven't even thought of.
I gave it a try and I think I managed to make it much more fluent and faster.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Give that one a try and let me know what do you think about it.
The only downside with that is that now the Typewriter sound goes way faster and sounds like a raspy thing instead.
I could remove the sound, but it sounds way too empty in between textbox sounds.

If you want to hear how it would sound without the Typewriter noise, open up the ROM in a hex editor and change the byte found at 0xF757 from 60 to 00 (so that it doesn't make any sound).
Other sounds in between are the laser from the sword sound and the death sound.



As for your recommendations PresidentLeever, I am interested in rebalancing some of the Exp points given out by enemies, though I don't know which ones yet as I feel most enemies at the start do offer a considerable amount of Exp given the trouble they give to kill them. If someone has suggestions as to what enemies to change, please let me know.

The beeping for the health is another one I might be interested in, as is the switching around some dialogue and more common enemy drops.
I feel like changing the dialogue would be something I would do last, just so that I can focus only in that exclusively and not many things at once.

One last thing nothing, is that alongside graphics, I don't think I'll be changing the game's layout too much/at all.
The only things I find annoying are the pits when you tend to fall to them by a knockback, but that's all that I can think of.

I'm still open to suggestions, so once I know we have the text speed out of the way I might tackle something else from the suggestions :)

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DavidtheIdeaMan on March 15, 2018, 06:14:04 pm
You know,since we are making changes to Zelda II and make it less frustrating,maybe you can tackle of the Castlevania Nes Games?   
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 11:09:15 am
Nice, yeah I actually talked to someone else who did that with the text speed a while back and had the same issue so that's why I suggested the button press idea. But personally I'm fine with this too.

Alright, I've only played up to the first palace so far but would suggest these exp changes:
Orange moblin - 2-4 exp
Orange goriya - 24-30 exp (or lower the red moblin a little bit)
"wolf" in the palace - 1-3 exp

Edit:
Beat the first palace. I think 6 hits for the skull/bubble is a bit much given the exp they give? But standing and hitting them over and over isn't fun so maybe just reduce the exp they give to 25 or so (and keep 50 for the fast one).

Blue bat - 10 exp
Red goriya - 35-40 exp

I wanted to do an improvement/rebalance hack using the editor earlier and as part of that tried to reduce the overworld size (to make it easier to spot item locations and reduce travel times), but ran into some issue with certain tiles in eastern hyrule. Ran into issues when changing the dialogue as well (there is a retranslation online that I used as reference). I also wanted to do much more, but couldn't, so it's great to see this taking shape now. :)

This was about as far as I got with the OW maps:
https://i.imgur.com/p6xrR7q.png
https://i.imgur.com/DM1QUo9.png
https://i.imgur.com/cTSa7iC.png

I can try to explain the sword swing cancel in more detail, I think that would be a big improvement if fixed.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Ar8temis008 on March 16, 2018, 04:34:52 pm
Now this is a crazy idea and I don't expect you to go through with it, but what if you removed the overworked completely? It adds nothing to the game except needless confusion.

You could add branching path ways in levels that lead to different areas, it would sort of play like Castlevania II (except better).

The manual save feature and less linear design that was mentioned earlier would complement this.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: pocket on March 16, 2018, 06:11:28 pm
Played for a bit, and it's really promising so far. I think the speedy text works great, the sound doesn't bother me at all.

If you want to know about a certain enemy that needs rebalancing, I have a suggestion for Doomknocker. They throw maces that return to them like a boomerang... or at least that's how you expect it to work.  If you kill doomknockers after they throw their maces, the maces will return to where they are and stay there for a bit, before going back into the direction they were thrown.  This really messes with the player's expectations, and given that they've been placed over a few lava pits, this is a really bad move.  If at all possible, i'd like to see that their maces return to the direction they were thrown from and keep going, like you'd expect of a boomerang type weapon.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 06:33:50 pm
ShadowOne333, I'm a fan of all of your hacks and was really excited to see this and apply your prototype patch.

My thoughts so far: if there is a way to totally cut off the sound with the sped up text, I think that would be the right direction. The static sound is a distraction.

Also, with the hearts: I absolutely love the concept of switching out the life bar. However, my first visual impression of the dark blue background surrounding the hearts struck me as aesthetically off. I've gotten used to it the more I play but I think the first impression is important. My suggestion would be to remove the blue background all together, let the hearts stand directly against the area backdrop. When the hearts are emptied, perhaps they could be turned white?

Thanks again for working on this. I'm sure I'll have more feedback as I get deeper in.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 07:58:30 pm
Yes it's not quite perfect. Maybe do something like these suggestions if possible:
(https://i.imgur.com/BYuApRu.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 08:22:49 pm
Both great options. But if the hearts can't switch to white, I think I'd rather see the blue outline than have them disappear altogether. It also gives you that cool Ocarina effect.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 08:43:51 pm
Oh right, something like this then? Either black or blue inside, click to zoom.
(https://i.imgur.com/MjuGq8m.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 16, 2018, 09:08:29 pm
When I mentioned white, I was thinking the solid red hearts could turn solid white when you lose them. As opposed to that, you could leave the blue outline of the heart and have them go black.

However, based on this second image, black center white outline looks very good too. Might be the ideal scenario. I wouldn't have the hearts turn blue. I don't think there is a precedent in the franchise for that and it seems odd visually.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 09:25:37 pm
Well this mimics zelda 3 and link's awakening whereas that would look like zelda 1. But the blue in shadowone's version is probably a layer on top of a simple red meter that drains so it might not be doable. 

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 09:36:42 pm
Thank you, guys!
It's really great to see this kind of suppport and suggestions :)
Really appreciated!

As for the heart meter, PresidentLeever is correct.
While the mockups are nice and pretty, I ended up using the blue "mask" to cover up the effect the game uses to display the health.

It's basically a red rectangle which drains, and it does so in a rectangle shape sadly.
I explained why I used that design in detail here:
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25751.msg352319#msg352319

Quote from: ShadowOne333
I struggled quite a bit because the game uses some kind of background colour for keeping track of the health, which is why I ended up putting a blue colour around the hearts so that this effect is not seen while in gameplay.

So sadly, I am limited by:
1) Four colours. Well actually three (white, blue and red) and a transparency one (background).
2) The background layer which keeps track of the health. It seems to be just one single 8x8 tile repeated several times, so I gotta e careful what to put there, and also make sure it is mirrored perfectly when the health drains, because the tile ends up moving left a bit.
If I use another shape that's not a rectangle, it will overlap or go out of the heart-shape bounds.

So yeah, sadly that's what I could do without having to redo the whole health/damage routines. I'm still thinking about what to do with the Magic meter though, not sure if I will make it one solid bar or keep it segmented as it is.
I also thought about swaping the blue and white for it, making it so that the Magic meter is blue instead of white, but I'll see what I can do :p

Thanks again, guys!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 16, 2018, 10:08:47 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 16, 2018, 10:13:00 pm
Ok got it, yeah it's a shame you can't use a solid black as part of the mask there. But yours is still better than the original. :thumbsup:
Well...
I COULD use black, but that would mean sacrificing either the blue or white.
If I sacrifice the blue for a solid black, the only drawback would be the Sword graphic having no hilt xD
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 01:40:41 am
Here's some of my suggestions if you want to add them to your hack:

Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
(https://tcrf.net/images/c/c3/TAOL_Water.gif)
Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
(https://tcrf.net/images/9/9c/Zelda2-MazePalace.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/f/f6/Zelda2-HiddenPalace.png)
Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
(https://tcrf.net/images/5/5b/TAOL_JP15.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/0/06/FDS_Zelda_II_Kidnapped_Child.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/9/94/TAOL_JP13.png)(https://tcrf.net/images/3/3c/TAOL_JP19.png)
Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 07:45:56 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: NES Boy on March 17, 2018, 08:47:16 am
Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
But which localization should we base this reference on? Depending on the translation, the name in the English Dragon Quest game is either Loto or Erdrick.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 09:39:41 am
As far as i'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:05:15 am
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Also, I came across a bug. In the first temple boss battle, instead of the boss's life bar being divided into distinct sections as before, it all got mashed together into one vertical red bar. However when he loses life, the red bar is replaced by distinct white segments as per the original.
Can you post a pic of it?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 11:33:49 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 17, 2018, 11:45:53 am
I was having some difficulty posting the pic to the forum but hopefully this works:

https://imgur.com/mRA2fnx
Okay I think I know why that happens.
Remember the problem I mentioned with the health bar having a red rectangle as a background?
It's related to that.

It seems the boss' life meter uses the same graphic.
I had to fill the whole 8x8 tile with red so that we could have a full heart in the health meter, so that is why you see a full bar instead of a segmented one.

I will try to see what I can do about it this Tuesday.
I might end up either modifying Link's health bar again or making the Boss' life bar a full non-segmented bar, one of the two. The later most likely.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 17, 2018, 12:47:09 pm
I love those suggestions by SCD. There are lots of advantages of the US localization but combining those with what was cut would make the perfect version of the game.

Thanks, I'm glad that you liked my suggestions.

As far as I'm concerned, It's Erdrick until someone gets around to proper uncensored versions of the original Dragon Quest games. The remakes just don't cut it.

I agree with you, I also think we should go with Erdrick as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 01:33:36 pm
Just finished the 2nd Palace. I really liked how the bubble enemy health was significantly reduced but I think the same thing should be done to the Ras (floating blue dragon heads). I was always one of those OCD players who couldn't help but kill everything no matter how long it took and eliminating the 12 or so required hits would be wonderful.

Btw, I think the cutting of magic consumption by 1/2 is working fine. I still find myself desperately looking for magic potions at times and overall it still feels balanced for the NES era. I wouldn't suggest increasing magic and xp drop rates as I believe it would only cheapen the experience. 
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 17, 2018, 04:30:30 pm
Making the skulls/bubbles go down that quick already is an increase in exp drops in practice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 04:53:28 pm
would this be doable? https://ibb.co/hGD1Nx

the green sword hilt doesnt really bother me, and i dont think the letters need the blue shadow really

also, the enemies that drain exp. are hella annoying, but maybe find a way to make them drain (much) less than they normally do would be better than completely taking away,

also, i think, the point of making the bubble such a "tank" to begin with was that they were such a exp. farm. idk, it might be too easy if they go down in a few hits though. maybe 1/3 would be good?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Chicken Knife on March 17, 2018, 05:40:52 pm
@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 17, 2018, 10:06:28 pm
https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

also, it would only be a visual thing, but the fireball spell could be changed to Bow and Arrow, it would still drain magic, but it might could work (bombs are "magic" items in BotW)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

not sure if you can use something like that, but would look super cool

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 18, 2018, 12:13:21 am
I have a suggestion, which I'll write on this slip of paper and drop in your suggestion box.

Increase the striking range of Link's sword by one tile exactly, please. That isn't a sword, it's a kitchen knife. You'd have to extend the sprite as well, naturally.

Hope it's somehow doable, sometime :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 18, 2018, 04:57:33 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: wolpak on March 18, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Love these ideas.

Anyway to have experience levels go up to level 10 each?  Maybe balance that with more powerful end game enemies.

I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on March 18, 2018, 11:20:02 pm
agreed, lives would be perfect like that!

also, if the "double jump" (ability to jump again in midair) could replace the wierd floaty jump spell would be awesome

and fall in a pit or lava, instead of taking a life, should restart you at the beginning of the room with 1 less heart, and should only kill you (obviously) if you have 1 heart or less. that would be awesome
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on March 20, 2018, 02:55:45 am
Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: DankPotato2600 on March 20, 2018, 11:12:12 am
DO NOT change the 'I AM ERROR'
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 11:31:12 am
Man what a shit weekend I had.
Sorry about not posting.

Now back on track, wow you guys surely have some interesting points.
Let me get back to some of them:

Bagu retranslated as Bug. Yessss?  ;)
This is one of the first re-translations I was gonna make ;)
I want to keep both the Error guy and Bagu, but Bagu will have his proper english name of Bug.
I mentioned in the other thread to rework lives.  Each extra life is added to the max total and not the current total.
This is something I am thinking to implement, however from what I've seen, the game does not save the amount of lives into SRAM at any point, so I have to see if I could somehow make the game save the maximum amount of lives into SRAM and then add +1 to that lives counter for when you find a Link Doll at any point.
This might require some heavy ASM hacking, and SRAM hacking too, which I am a noob at, so it would be tackled down the road to see if I can do it. If someone could help here, it'd be greatly appreciated.

https://ibb.co/idgGNx actually something like this would look even better, and maybe if you implement a sword upgrade or 2, just add sword icons (or a sword that is hilt on the left and a growing blade as it gets powered up)

although this, looks good as well. but i think it uses too many colors? (because black has to count as a color, idk)   https://ibb.co/kKSO2x   this is actually what i would prefer. giving all 3 stats a uniform look. the little L under Life and the little M under Magic is so redundant anyways,

also, if you could add the message in text when pause "press Up + A to save" would be really cool!

That's a really good mockup!
But sadly I still need a colour to overlay the Health/Magic consumption bar.
So that means I need 3 colours for the HUD, one which should be white for the letters, one to mask the consumption effect, and another one for the hearts. So this really doesn't leave any room for the green colour at all.
Either I go for a whole black to cover up the red/white bars (consumption) or change the overlay from blue to green, but it doesn't look pretty. So I am stuck with either leaving the Blue overlay or either making it black completely, but the sword icon won't look good. xD
One more thing, is that I haven't tried to flip around or reorganize the order in which the Sword, Magic and Health are displayed/printed in the HUD.

@IAmCaptPlanet

That's a great look and the green hilt is fine, if this all would work.

As far as Bubbles go, I can see the farming concern because they respawn easily unlike many of the other high xp enemies. I was gaining xp at such a rapid pace that I personally didn't feel the need to farm them, but I would be ok with taking their xp down to 20 to match the Ras.

Well I didn't really see it that way to be honest.
In the first palace you encounter Red Stalfos, which are really easy to kill (go down in like 3 hits I believe) without any effort but simply ducking and stabbing their feet. They give out 30 Exp.
Now compare them with the Bubbles which require around 10~ or so stabs and they give 50 Exp, and I think the comparison is valid if you take into consideration other sword/shield based enemies in the 1st Palace.
I think the damage dealt to them is now way more in balance to how many hits they took to kill them, and at the end they just give out 50 Exp, which is kinda lame compared to the amount of stabs given out in the original to kill them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@SCD sorry I didn't get back to you before.
Let me address your suggestions:


1) Restore the roar sound effect from the FDS port.
Would this be for the Game Over screen or the bosses roar?
I kinda like the Game Over screen sound of the NES one.
Though I can't remember if the NES used any sound for the bosses at all.

2) Make the level system behave more like the one from the FDS port.
How exactly did the level system work for the FDS port?
For what I know, the Level system is way more user friendly in the NES, isn't it?

3) Rename the Trophy & Water of Life back to being called Goddess Statue & Holy Water once again.
This will be done for sure when I tackle rewriting the script.

4) Restore the Dragon Quest reference in the cemetery from the FDS port.
This is one I REALLY want to do, but the NES port completely disabled the text prompt in that particular place in Saria.
If someone knows a way to re-implement this into the NES port, please let me know, as I'd really love to see this one back in the NES one. The text I will be going for (if this gets implemented back) is "The hero Erdrick rests here"

5) Restore the water movement from the FDS port:
This is one I want to put back in as well, but I haven't really researched enough as if it is possible to achieve or not in the NES port. If someone has an insight or knows how to do it, please let me know as well.
I think this will require modifying the mapper of the ROM.

6) Restore the unused windows for both the Maze Palace & the Hidden Palace:
This I might do as well, the windows look neat enough to not have them there :P

7) Restore the FDS sprites of Carock, Kidnapped Child, River Devil & Volvagia:
I think that from all of these, I might only end up doing the River Devil.
Carock and Volvagia's sprites look better to me on the NES release, and the Kidnapped Child has a purpose.
In the original FDS game, the Child's sprite had some sort of multiple ropes which tied him up, and you had to stab it with the sword to free him. However, in the NES release, you can simply pick up the Child, which makes the need of the ropes useless anymore as you don't remove the ropes now.

8) Restore the FDS version of the King's Tomb, but add the unique statues from the NES version on both sides of the grave like this edit that I did:
(http://www.bwass.org/bucket/KT.png)
The mockup looks really cool. Though I'm still unsure about this.
I don't know if this will affect something in-game or not. Is visiting the King's Tomb necessary for progression in the game? I can't recall right now, it's been quite a while since I last did a full playthrough of Zelda 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So right now this is in the TODO list:
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: SCD on March 20, 2018, 01:09:20 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on March 20, 2018, 01:46:15 pm
ShadowOne333,


   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

IamCaptPlanet

   Now that I've completed my hack, A Double Jump is something I'm going to look into as well. I think that would be so much better than the current JUMP spell.


The game currently caps the level progression to 8 and enemy HP to a max of 255. If someone could create a way to go pact those caps,  I'd love to see it. Or at least for attack, include the Master Sword and increase the emeny hp cap to go beyond 255 to 300-350.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 03:10:28 pm
It's alright, it's no big deal.

1.The roar sound effect for the two bosses, Mazura & Volvagia.

2.It was easier to level up in the Japanese version: https://tcrf.net/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link/Regional_Differences#Level_System

3.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going restore their original names.

4.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that.

5.Alright, hopefully someone will help you on that as well.

6.Cool, that's great to hear that you're going to restore the unused windows back to those two palaces.

7.Alright, I'm cool with you restoring only the FDS River Devil sprite, it's no big deal.

Alright, it's no big deal on the child's sprite, it's fine on how it is.

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".
I'll have to take a look and see what I can do about the bosses' roars.
I hope they don't rely on the FDS extra sound channels, or else I'd be screwed.

I'll give the level system a look too once I am out of the Enemy balancing, I want to start focusing on that and in the HUD just to have that settled down and then I'll move into other stuff.

As for the King's Tomb place, I might change it out IF I find out how to bring up the NPC and the same message in the unused area.

   In IcePenguin's Shadow Of Night hack, he has the water movement from the FDS version, but I don't know how he did that. I wish he was around to ask. Trax did help him a lot with that hack, so Trax might know.

So it is possible then, interesting. Good to know. Thanks for the heads up!
I might have to take a peek at IcePenguin's hack and try to track down how he did it.
If Trax could help out in this regard, that would be even better, I'd be really grateful.

----------------------------------------------

Oh also, for the people that are trying the latest patch, please try the following:

Open up the patched ROM in a hex editor, and go to the following address:
0x00F756

Once you do, you should see the following bytes [A9 60].
Try to change the 60 in there for a 00, and reload the ROM in your emulator.

Now try to load up any text and compare them.
This effectively removes the typewriter sound for when text is being printed out.

Let me know what do you guys think of it, if you like it more with the noise of the typewriter being fast, or if I should remove it altogether.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 04:28:00 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 20, 2018, 04:29:47 pm
Is fixing the sword swing cancel something you're not interested in or that you can't do?
I'm all up for fixing it (if it indeed is a bug), but I haven't done any research on it nor do I know what it consists of and what its repercussions are. It for sure will require some ASM so I would most likely take a look at it later rather than sooner.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on March 20, 2018, 05:16:57 pm
Alright, thanks. It happens if you jump right after hitting attack, or attack right before landing from a jump. The expected behavior is that link completes the swing while jumping or landing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Spooniest on March 20, 2018, 08:48:25 pm
A whole tile? I think a couple of pixels is enough.

Well...yeah maybe a whole tile is a lot. But a couple of pixels I think would still be too short to really be a sword. A proper sword should be the length of Link's torso, you'd think. So...I mean, I'm gonna ballpark guess that 4 pixels longer would be enough? Plus, games do things in multiples of 4 a lot, so that should be easy, or so I would guestimate without any real knowledge of the thing.

Like the idea of extending his sword, though sword enemies should get the same benefit.

Indeed, I'd say so. Longer Darknut swords in equal measure. Sauce for the goose.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 23, 2018, 01:42:34 pm
Dropping by to say that I won't be able to work on this project for like a week or two due to vacations.
But still, feel free to post suggestions and things which might make Zelda II a better experience overall.

I'd be taking notes for when I get back to it by the end of March/start of April, so don't hesitate to post your suggestions ;)

Last thing I did was ramp up a bit the enemy drops (from 1/6 to 1/5), so that's the less thing from the TODO list remaining.

Next up might be checking what the heck is going on with the Bosses' life bar.
I am sure it has to do with the new HUD, so I will take a look at those sprites while fighting the first boss in the First Palace.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: zstandig on March 23, 2018, 09:28:59 pm

8.Alright, I just thought it would be cooler for the King of Hyrule to have his FDS tomb than the one they made in the NES port, but you don't have to restore it if you don't want to, it's no big deal.

There's no reason to visit his tomb, the one thing to fix in his NES tomb is change the text "THIS IS KINGS TOMB" to "THIS IS THE KING'S TOMB".

It's been a while since I've played through Zelda II so I might be missing some context, but would "TOMB OF KINGS" work?  I figured since now we know the official timeline and Zelda II is pretty late, so it would be reasonable to have a tomb of many past kings.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 09, 2018, 03:14:56 pm
Back, boys :)
And I bring to you the latest beta:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

This one should have more common enemy drops (but not that common, from 1/6 to 1/5) and it should also fix the issue with the Boss' health bar.

For the later, I had to do some compromises, I had to reduce the height of the Hearts in the Life meter by one pixel.
So right now it should be like 6 pixels tall, and I feel like it still looks really good in the HUD.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/ur1tu.png)

Let me know what do you guys think!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 09, 2018, 04:03:12 pm
That looks great! Glad to see you back, chugging away.  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 09, 2018, 07:37:43 pm
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 07:28:26 am
Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 10:14:22 am
Hi ShadowOne333, I did a Lets Play awhile back on your Redux version of LTTP. It might be worth collaborating with Revility as his Rev version of Zelda 2 is a solid base to work from. Aside from that I love a lot of the changes you have scheduled for this. I'll def be checking back :3

Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed ALttP Redux :)
I will check Revility's hack and see what I can gather from it to accommodate for this one.

Welcome back ShadowOne. I'll check out your changes tonight, so I can update my hack with the changes to the health bar, etc.

BTW, did you get a chance to see Trax's disassembly from the ASM hacking & improvements thread?

Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 11:12:06 am
Sure thing!
As for Trax's disassembly, yeah that is what I am using to verify certain aspects of the game.
However, from his last post I couldn't see anything related to the water tile animations from the Famicom release, or did I miss something?

Oh also, I wanted to ask you @ultimaweapon, how did you remove/fix the glitchy flicking tile in the Title Screen?
You know, the one between the water and the black sky.
I did a quick look at it but couldn't find anything in terms of sprite editing, so I am assuming it might be related to tilemap editing instead.
Do you happen to know how to do that?

As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 12:15:24 pm
As far as the title, I used Revility's hack for the title screen and I just did some minor modifications to it with a tile editor. You'll have to ask him.

I didn't see any info there about the tile animation, but there are things there about pallet color changes, but I can't make heads or tails with it yet. Still reading to understand it all. I plan to change Link's tunic for my current hack. Once I figure out how to change the pallet colors for the overworld and palaces, I have a great idea for a new Zelda hack that will make use of Trax's "Ice Tiles".

Oh I see.
I might have to check out Revility's hack to try to sort that little bug out.

I think I might do a repaletting of Link, as I feel like his colours look washed out and not as vibrant as they should be.

How's this for a change?

(http://i63.tinypic.com/1z4eryb.png)

Or this one

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2me47zr.png)

This are the original colors of Link just for reference:
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Legend_of_Zelda_2_The_Adventure_of_Link_NES_ScreenShot4.gif)

As for the tile animation for the water in the outworld, I'll try to check it out after I am done with this and some enemy editing.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 10, 2018, 02:41:50 pm
I like both of those.

I would like to make Link's Tunic either blue or gold.

As far as the moving water, do you think you can find the solution looking at the FDS version and maybe transferring that info over?

Also, IcePenguin emailed me a day ago, so he might be back. If so, he may also be able to answer that question as well as the tell you about that DASH spell.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 07:38:43 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 10, 2018, 09:00:51 pm
A shade brighter on the brown would be better since it now blends with the background.

I think something like this would be optimal but I guess it's not doable without multiple sprites like in the mega man games or batman: rotj.
(https://i.imgur.com/j7hQHOm.png)

That's a pretty darn good mockup!
Unfortunately, you are correct.
We are currently limited to 3 main colors for Link, which are brown, green and beige.
4th colour is used for transparency, sadly.
The only way to achieve your mockup would be to do a mask sprite ala Megama indeed.

Also for the brown being TOO dark...
That's the only other shade of brown below the one used by default.
You can check here, this is the whole colour palette the NES uses:
(http://gamester81.com/wp-content/uploads/nes-color-palette.jpg)

Link uses colours 18 for brown, 2A for green and 36 for beige in vanilla Zelda II.
I changed them to 08 brown, 1A or 19 green and 37 beige.
I'm tempted to use color 07 instead of the brown, but not sure how well received that'd be.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 10, 2018, 10:11:31 pm
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 11, 2018, 07:29:08 am
The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 10:20:30 am
Right, yeah what I used was actually 17 there although the palette I had is slightly different.

Another palette I have is supposedly a palette based on real hardware colors ("kizul's definitive nes palette") if you want to take that into account. Here the yellows column is more "pure" yellow (almost greenish actually) and the reddish orange more orange/brown in tone.
(https://i.imgur.com/ham5WdG.png)

Edit: town? I meant tone, lol. I need to get some sleep I think.

It does seem more accurate if you check this example (3:52) though it's not quite perfect perhaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDBfNTf4ORY&t=3m52s

17 still looks way too bright imo.
One way to check it out would be to load any game, and then compare the 17 with the red carpet on Zelda's Chamber.
It's almost the same colour.
07 doesn't look that bad if you look at it compared with both the black background and any coloured background, I might go for 07 instead, 37 for skin and I think 2A for the green.

With 17 for the outline:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2ihksx2.png)

07 for the outline:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2dubfrc.png)

The color chart is easy enough to read. Now, if I could only figure out Link's location in the hex editor to change his color, I can try some colors myself. LOL

I think Link's palette is at 0x01C460.
You should find [0F 18 36 2A] around there. If it's not in 0x01C460 it should be the one at 0x01C47B.
Try changing the one at 1C460 first and see if that does it.
Note: This should only change Link's palette in side view, Overworld palettes are stored somewhere else, as do the File selection palettes with Link's little avatar there as well.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: PresidentLeever on April 11, 2018, 12:46:03 pm
You spend much less time in zelda's chamber than in dungeons but this shows why they picked 18 I think, it doesn't blend in with either (although it does blend with certain town buildings). Anyway 07 looks alright when zoomed in to full screen size so if others like it then go for it.

As an aside I also did a quick mockup with three colors and more pronounced highlights on the dark parts yesterday but I wasn't quite happy with it as all parts seem to be of the same material.
https://i.imgur.com/7vheI3p.png
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2018, 12:54:04 pm
Oh yeah you spend much of the time outside Zelda's chamber of course.
but yes, so far seems like 07 seems like a good option overall.

07 with black background:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/m9na0w.png)

07 in towns (put Link in a red building for comparison and testing):
(http://i64.tinypic.com/qrho9u.png)

Still looks quite good though, I can't remember if there are other places in Zelda II which might crash with the 07 colour of the outline. If someone does, please let me know.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shadic on April 11, 2018, 01:45:09 pm
I was going to recommend 07 anyways! I think it looks good.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 12, 2018, 09:24:21 am
If you do end up using parts of Revility's hack, please use the altered Link sprite as its way better then the original ;)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 12, 2018, 12:06:18 pm
All of the sprites from Revility's hack are better than the original.

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.

Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 12, 2018, 12:14:31 pm
I'll give Revility's hack a look for sure :)
I haven't even tried it yet lol

ShadowOne - That location took me to the pallets for the Overworld and not Link's Tunic.
Those looks good and 7 is the better choice.

Oh you're right, they're the overworld palettes.
Well there are other three locations which you can try out:
0x002856, 0x0040BE and 0x017C15.

I'm not sure yet which one of these might do it.
I've been doing tests over the PPU and not directly to the ROM data, so I still haven't made the change permanent yet :P

EDIT:
It was the second address I mentioned.
It's the series of [FF 18 36 2A] palettes starting at 40AE-40E1, though this does not change the palette for Link in a Palace, that might be located somewhere else.

EDIT #2:
And indeed, they were somewhere else.
100AE-100E1 is where the palettes for Link inside palaces seem to be located.
Great Palace I think are at 140AE-140E1

I'm still not sure what the palette at 17C15 is for.
I tried looking at the disassembly to hopefully find clues but:
Quote
bank5_Table_for_some_palettes
LOL
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: lastdual on April 12, 2018, 08:53:32 pm
You're also free to use or modify my link sprite should you wish to.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3702/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 06:19:49 pm
Decided to take a stab at the Introduction text today, this is how it ended up:

Quote
AFTER GANON WAS DESTROYED,
IMPA TOLD LINK ABOUT A
SLEEPING SPELL CAST ON
ANOTHER PRINCESS ZELDA.
SHE WILL WAKE ONLY WITH
THE POWER OF THE THIRD
TRIFORCE OF WISDOM SEALED
IN A PALACE IN HYRULE.
TO BREAK THE SEAL,CRYSTALS
MUST BE PLACED IN STATUES
IN 6 WELL GUARDED PALACES.
LINK SET OUT ON HIS MOST
ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET...
©1987 NINTENDO

(Is it the Triforce of Wisdom the one in Zelda II? I don't remember if it's that one or the one of Courage)

The only problem I hit with this edit is this:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/14szd45.png)

The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.
Should be a matter of finding out the tilemap and changing the palette values, which will take me quite some fiddling with the PPU memory.
If someone races it and finds it before me, please let me know :P
I will continue this until Monday, so if anyone jumps in with the info, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:49:48 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 13, 2018, 07:52:08 pm
The Triforce of Wisdom was the one broken up into 8 parts in Zelda 1 and The Triforce Of Power is the one you got once you defeated Ganon in Zelda 1 thus why both Link & Zelda each hold a Triforce at the end. The one you obtain from Zelda 2 is the Triforce Of Courage thus why I called my hack The Triforce Of Courage. LOL

Are trying to change the color of all the text or just some lines?

Shit now I have to rework the text to fit Courage instead of Wisdom. lol

Mmmm well I want it to be like vanilla, where all text is white and the Nintendo one is green.
But if you have something better in mind, please do tell :p
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 07:57:00 pm
I don't know where the colors for the text are. If I stumble upon something, I'd gladly let you know.

BTW, I started some work on a new Zelda 2 hack building off the concept of Trax's "Ice Tiles". If I can figure out how to incorporate it in the sideviews, that can open up some new gameplay concepts.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IcePenguin on April 13, 2018, 10:07:54 pm
The green shade which should highlight "@1987 NINTENDO" are now in white, and the "ADVENTURESOME QUEST YET..." text is now in that green shade.

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ultimaweapon on April 13, 2018, 10:49:16 pm
As always IcePenguin, you are awesome!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: IAmCaptPlanet on April 15, 2018, 04:55:33 pm
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Psyklax on April 16, 2018, 02:12:52 am
Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 10:54:32 am
i'm gonna be a bit nitpicky for a second

maybe "Adventurous" would be better than "Adventuresome"

idk, adventuresome sounds funny

Could be a good way to put it as well, I might change it once I am out of Bugland.

Regarding the green text: if anyone's interested in how to figure out that you change those bytes, I answered someone else on the topic:

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0 (https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25581.0)

Thanks! That sure helped out to understand it a bit more :)
I did know how tilemaps worked, I just didn't know how to get them with FCEUX using the debugger.
I freaking suck at using debuggers and their features to be honest, I tend to find everything from RAM of by ROM corruption xD

This screenshot will help you out.  :)  Also, I sent you a PM regarding the flickering tile.

Spoiler:
(https://i.imgur.com/OKbAbxy.png)

I added some extra text in the unused portion of the data, and the bytes immediately after the text have to do with changing the palette.  Hex value 0B is for the green color used in the "Nintendo" text, and value 03 is used for all other text.   Hope it helps!  :)

That's awesome!
Damn tilemaps and their one byte thing :P

However, I stumbled upon two issues while doing this:

Here's a gif of how both issues look right now in-game (sorry for the lame-ass fps):
(https://www.dropbox.com/pri/get/Hacks/zelda2.gif?_subject_uid=287263362&raw=1&size=1280x960&size_mode=3&w=AABUx0BMAdCjkg4QEpoDvlKtjDHy_Qy91wAU8QnBhabVlw)
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Shade Aurion on April 16, 2018, 12:06:01 pm
Two other hacks i'd look at incorporating are:

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1276/ for the type faces and borders

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3716/ for the boxart accurate title screen

---

I'd also have a read through Rev Edition's thread as a lot of suggestions were made there - https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25528
I'd honestly try and collab with Revility made because between you, you could really make a comprehensive hacked version of Zelda 2. Do you think separate audio tracks could be used also? There are better versions of the songs available.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 16, 2018, 04:09:00 pm
This is looking good!
It'll be really cool to encourage other people to play this game who don't want to "appreciate" (suffer through) zelda 2's difficulty.

@Psyklax That bit of palette info is really helpful! I've been wanting to allow my text editor to do the intro text, but I'm no good with figuring out graphics stuff.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 16, 2018, 05:29:57 pm
Managed to fix both issues posted earlier.
Were damn simple, but managed to fix them both haha

So here is the latest patch:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nvida92kyh5svj/Zelda2Redux.ips?dl=0

Now be sure to check the intro text and let me know if there is anything odd or out of place.
I'll see what I'll tackle next in the meanwhile haha
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Maximus on April 16, 2018, 07:44:56 pm
And the NPCs from this hack?

(Best design.)

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3795/
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 17, 2018, 05:05:32 pm
Okay guys, I think I know what I'll be doing next.
I already gave the text a try, and I can repoint the text to some free space near the $F000 address for text boxes which are somewhat short.

So what I can do right now is expand any text box that has between 1-3 lines up to 4 lines of text in the textbox.

Now what I'd like you guys to help me out with, is to determine which lines of dialogue sound odd, cryptic or out of place, so that I know which ones to focus on and rework them properly.

Here's the comparison list with a retranslation from the Japanese text to English and also comparing it to the default English translation:
http://www.glitterberri.com/adventure-of-link/retranslation/

With that said, if you guys have any specific suggestion for a line or something, let me know.
Just take into consideration that the text boxes have the following limitations:

So to accommodate any retranslated text, we have to remember that we can only write up to 40 characters (10 per row) in any given text box.
That is the only limitation at the moment, unless I find a way to expand the text box to some other width (hopefully at least 15 chars).

Please, let me know any text changes suggestions you may have!
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Trax on April 17, 2018, 05:58:13 pm
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 18, 2018, 10:17:15 am
I tried to make the text boxes wider some time ago, and I failed. I had the tiles set correctly, but not the palette mappings, so I could say it was 50% failure. The calculations needed to remap the palettes are quite complex. Also, a few years ago, I made a small sub-hack that made the box taller, almost twice as tall. However, I think it was not really functional with very long text strings. Or maybe it required some ASM, I can't remember exactly.

The other thing you have to consider is whether you foresee the use of accented characters. If you do, you have to leave an empty line between each line of text. If you don't, you can effectively double the available lines by canceling the line skip.
Thanks for stopping by my humble thread, Trax! hahah :P
So you have attempted expanding the text boxes before, but you say the palettes are what made it difficult?
Interesting.

As for what you mention in the second paragraph, by accented characters you mean like Á, É, etc, or special characters like ', ?, !, etc?
I did notice that the game tends to jump one whole row of tiles to print the next line of text, so perhaps we could somehow bypass this to effectively have around 8 lines of text per textbox instead of the 4 we have at the moment.

I believe Bisquit did the same thing for Castlevania II's textboxes, where he made it so that each text box has 8 lines now instead of 4. Both CV2 and Zelda 2 seem to use a very similar textbox setup.

I'll try to attempt the 8 lines thing and see if I can make something out of it.

Thank you so much, Trax!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Trax:
I searched a little bit around the disassembly and found this in particular:

Code: [Select]
bank3_End_of_Line_Routine                                                      ;
ldy      #$0B                          ; 0xf666 $B656 A0 0B                    ; 0B = delay after dialog line with FD
cmp      #$FD                          ; 0xf668 $B658 C9 FD                    ;
beq      LB65E                         ; 0xf66a $B65A F0 02                    ;
ldy      #$2D                          ; 0xf66c $B65C A0 2D                    ; 2D = delay after dialog line with FE
LB65E                                                                          ;
sty      $0566                         ; 0xf66e $B65E 8C 66 05                 ; Delay between letters
lda      #$00                          ; 0xf671 $B661 A9 00                    ; A = 00
sta      $0489                         ; 0xf673 $B663 8D 89 04                 ; New Letter X Position (offset)
lda      $048A                         ; 0xf676 $B666 AD 8A 04                 ; Next Letter Y Position
clc                                    ; 0xf679 $B669 18                       ;
adc      #$40                          ; 0xf67a $B66A 69 40                    ; Go down 2 tiles (0x10 pixels)
sta      $048A                         ; 0xf67c $B66C 8D 8A 04                 ; New Letter Y Position
jmp      LB752                         ; 0xf67f $B66F 4C 52 B7                 ;

This seems to be related to the FD/FE commands that the text uses to make a new line.
The portion I focused on was the [69 40] in particular.
I tried to change it to [69 20] to try to make the game print to the tile below instead of skipping one.
It DOES print to the tile below, but not without deleting the one above as it prints new letters.
I also tried [69 60] just to try and see what it does when skipping 2 tiles and printing to the third one, and this one effectively makes it so that I can only have 3 lines of text in a textbox (just as a simple test).
But 69 20 keeps removing the line above as it prints letters sadly.

I'll try to see what I can do in the meanwhile with this.
Hopefully that's what you meant by the line skip, if not then I am screwing around somewhere else lol
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: Midna on April 19, 2018, 12:32:55 am
All you have to do to get an acceptable amount of space out of Zelda 2's message boxes is redo the text drawing code so it doesn't skip the spaces where the dakuten would go in the Japanese version.
Title: Re: Zelda II Redux
Post by: njosro on April 19, 2018, 10:26:27 pm
There are two things I remember that complicated things.

1. The space above each letter is printed because in the japanese there was a possibility for some characters having those lines (") above them. If you print any character in a certain range it will print (") (but actually comes out as garbage text in the US version since the tileset is different). Otherwise it prints a space character above the letter. So if you find the spot where it does that and get rid of that bit of code then you should probably be able to do the no skipping lines thing without a problem.

2. After printing 4 lines of text the counter wraps around to zero and starts printing from the top again. If I recall correctly, it was because the line number was actually stored as the y position that directly corresponds to the y position on screen, so you can't go down past the last line of text without requiring 2 bytes (which is why the text box is at the height you see in the game). You'd need to make things more complicated and do your own math routine to get past this.


So if you find the code that prints the extra character above the letters and remove it, and then make it increase the y counter by 0x08 instead of 0x10 you should be able to do it. But I'm just going by memory here...

EDIT:
I didn't read Midna's post fully! The dakuten is the symbol I'm talking about when I write this: (")