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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Chronosplit on February 27, 2018, 09:55:16 pm

Title: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on February 27, 2018, 09:55:16 pm
http://store.steampowered.com/app/613830/CHRONO_TRIGGER/

Yes, it is most definitely a Square-Enix steam release.  I kinda think it comes from the (quite old) mobile port because of the UI and apparent lack of monster arena, but it didn't have the graphical stuff at all.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: vico on February 27, 2018, 10:52:47 pm
Yeah, definitely the mobile port:

https://twitter.com/thatsmytrunks/status/968533719869947904
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: NERV Agent on February 28, 2018, 06:39:17 am
This question of mine is more hacking related than it is to gaming.

What would be the procedure for editing the sprites for this Steam version of Chrono Trigger?

I have a Chrono Trigger sprite hack that I made 8 years ago, and I'd like to port it over to this updated Steam version.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on February 28, 2018, 09:26:01 am
This question of mine is more hacking related than it is to gaming.

What would be the procedure for editing the sprites for this Steam version of Chrono Trigger?

I have a Chrono Trigger sprite hack that I made 8 years ago, and I'd like to port it over to this updated Steam version.
It depends.  I really don't know if they're using the same file format as FFV/VI.  But I do bet that they used the same smoothing methods as those ports, as that 2GB probably includes new filtered tiles.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: AxlRocks on February 28, 2018, 12:11:02 pm
I hate when re-releases are just ROMs and some really basic emulator, but then you have this. An actual port, except it's a port of a port and so bad in multiple ways that just emulating the SNES original would've been better. A real shame, especially for such a great game.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: nesrocks on February 28, 2018, 12:50:55 pm
Definitive edition.  :thumbsup: Well done, square enix.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on February 28, 2018, 02:04:00 pm
I hate when re-releases are just ROMs and some really basic emulator, but then you have this. An actual port, except it's a port of a port and so bad in multiple ways that just emulating the SNES original would've been better. A real shame, especially for such a great game.
It isn't a ROM at least.  The proof is that funnily enough, there would've been more content if they did go that route.  I mean that as in all content of the DS version would be there; Square always uses the absolute newest port they have as a base for this stuff so it would've been the DS version if not mobile.

This mobile source was before Square went gung-ho into shells like that.  It dates to around the same time as the FF 1/2 versions that nixed the PSP content.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: NERV Agent on March 01, 2018, 06:34:32 am
Are there any plans for an Uncensoring Patch (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25303.0) for this Steam release?
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 01, 2018, 09:53:50 am
Are there any plans for an Uncensoring Patch (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25303.0) for this Steam release?
I have no plans to tend to the Steam version, as I am not on the right platform to test it either way.  That doesn't mean it isn't interesting though; even without the Arena of Ages, it would be far easier to work with than the DS version.

The Steam version thanks to it's DS lineage uses Slattery's script, but even he left a slight couple of things out (Ayla for example).  There wouldn't be as much to do, and grammar fixes would be a minimum unless if the Steam version crept something in like Load Captain or Espier.  I do wonder however, that UI is ugly but does it have text limits for chapter names?  Slattery used a very shortened version of the last chapter's name (At the End of the Planet's Dream), which Cross references in it's entirety.  As big as the UI elements appear, there should be enough room for all the text to fit.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: magictrufflez on March 01, 2018, 10:31:53 pm
Good lord this looks...not good. They even screwed up the colors somehow, and god only knows what they "improved" in the gameplay. Some of the stuff seems OK enough, but that HUD contrasts pretty terribly with the old SNES graphics (which seem to have been only partially "updated").

There's no way this is worth $15.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: NERV Agent on March 02, 2018, 01:26:11 am
Yikes. Judging by YouTube reviewers, everyone fucking hates this game.

I guess porting over any ROM hacks to this version is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Spooniest on March 02, 2018, 02:32:02 am
They are trying to make their old fans go away. I am unable to think anything else at this point.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 02, 2018, 01:18:38 pm
I guess porting over any ROM hacks to this version is a waste of time.
That I'm not one bit surprised about.

Honestly, the Steam version's main worth is in the FMVs.  Square-Enix unknowingly dropped a nice gift, in that it appears that they were the most worked on thing in the entire package.  Everything else is better elsewhere.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: SleepyFist on March 02, 2018, 01:56:36 pm
That I'm not one bit surprised about.

Honestly, the Steam version's main worth is in the FMVs.  Square-Enix unknowingly dropped a nice gift, in that it appears that they were the most worked on thing in the entire package.  Everything else is better elsewhere.
MSU-1 can do cutscenes right? (Conker's Hyrule Tale is the only MSU hack iv'e played)
If so maybe the cutscenes from the steam version can be ripped and used with the SNES ROM.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 02, 2018, 04:44:57 pm
MSU-1 can do cutscenes right? (Conker's Hyrule Tale is the only MSU hack iv'e played)
If so maybe the cutscenes from the steam version can be ripped and used with the SNES ROM.
Already in the works: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23115.msg352886#msg352886

I also wonder how these compare with the DS version.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: SleepyFist on March 02, 2018, 07:52:38 pm
Already in the works: http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23115.msg352886#msg352886

I also wonder how these compare with the DS version.

Noticed that up there after I made my post, It's too bad they can't be used as is, also those inexplicably missing scenes.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Jorpho on March 03, 2018, 12:41:10 am
Do you think a fresh port of PSX Chrono Cross would be next?  I expect it would be just as good as the FF9 port.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 03, 2018, 12:33:33 pm
Do you think a fresh port of PSX Chrono Cross would be next?  I expect it would be just as good as the FF9 port.
That would be interesting if Square-Enix is prospecting for a new Chrono title, but I don't really know if Square's ready for that yet.  I'd say we'd sooner see something else.  I would predict Dragon Quest IV-VI next since they're going through mobile titles, buuuuut there's the matter of how they'd get around the portrait mode lock outside of extreme use of borders.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: pianohombre on March 04, 2018, 05:52:33 am
Just recently saw this game was listed as top 10 or 20 best games out of all time (out of 300) by Game Informer.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: NERV Agent on March 06, 2018, 05:52:41 am
Hmmm, noticing a trend here as people on YouTube also hate the recent Secret of Mana remake on Steam.

I guess you can call all these "remakes"...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...a hot steaming pile.

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/vu53650bdf.jpg)
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Spooniest on March 06, 2018, 10:16:47 am
Hmmm, noticing a trend here as people on YouTube also hate the recent Secret of Mana remake on Steam.

I guess you can call all these "remakes"...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...a hot steaming pile.

(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/vu53650bdf.jpg)

Their classic fans are certainly ... steamed up.

Fun fact: My girlfriend is Italian, and watched UFO Robot Grandizer as a bambina, but she can't stand any of these games with chibi characters at all. She calls them the 'ridiculous tiny people.'
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 06, 2018, 01:54:42 pm
There are a lot of reasons for that.  One is that Square-Enix's multi-platform machine varies greatly in quality with much to be desired (to say the least), then some just would rather Square-Enix stop milking old games in favor for making new titles.  Of course there's always the nostalgia or fickle point when it comes to the company, but it's mostly the first two which I totally get.

At lest they appear to be listening with this port, acknowledging it.  I doubt much will come out of it though.

EDIT: Looks like it was pretty quick to find out what happened: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20180301/315059/Doing_an_HD_Remake_the_Right_Way_Chrono_Trigger_Edition.php

Apparently the game uses two filters, but for some reason different filters are used on singular objects.  Whut?
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: redmax on March 06, 2018, 03:41:44 pm
Hmmm, noticing a trend here as people on YouTube also hate the recent Secret of Mana remake on Steam.

I guess you can call all these "remakes"...

least secret of mana was a remaster, chrono trigger still looks like....older graphics and....you know what, its crap and squareenix should be ashamed. Least they could attempted to remake/revamp/remaster it instead of making a sad miserable HIGH PERFORMANCE(oh the system requirements) release that is this. you think they would of learned from the ps4 port of ff7.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: realworksuks on March 06, 2018, 04:23:35 pm
I find it funny that we didn't get a big franchise out of Chrono Trigger.  I mean, Square-Enix made a bunch of Star Ocean games, but isn't Chrono Trigger far more famous?  Maybe they just want to leave well enough alone.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on March 06, 2018, 05:14:18 pm
I find it funny that we didn't get a big franchise out of Chrono Trigger.  I mean, Square-Enix made a bunch of Star Ocean games, but isn't Chrono Trigger far more famous?  Maybe they just want to leave well enough alone.
I kinda think Square figured at the time that this would be a one-time deal due to the teamwork involved, so they never planned for anything after it.  That and time travel is a veeeeery tricky subject to keep going for too long, which is why there aren't many games in general that use it as a main point.  One big deal about CT and how it's built is that time travel is a very brave decision to base as the main focus; one reason why the game kept as focused on the storyline was because if you went one minute astray you could completely screw up the whole story by being your own grandpa.  The fact that the game is very light on paradoxes in the end is really quite the achievement, so if you went too many games in people would see more holes in the universe over struggling to keep everything in check.

This all is probably one reason why Cross focused on parallel dimensions instead, come to think of it.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Jorpho on March 06, 2018, 11:12:25 pm
That and time travel is a veeeeery tricky subject to keep going for too long, which is why there aren't many games in general that use it as a main point.
I wouldn't say that at all.  Off the top of my head, Tales of Phantasia, Final Fantasy Legend / Saga III, and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time spring to mind, and I have no doubt I'm forgetting a bunch of much more obvious examples.  Heck, didn't the orginal Final Fantasy involve time travel in some capacity?

Of course, the latter is particularly sloppy in that there's nothing you can do in the past that actually affects the present, except for one unskippable cutscene.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Spooniest on March 09, 2018, 01:04:15 am
Time Travel as a plot device creates a very simple problem, and similar to portraying the Afterlife; no reports on the nature of such things exist at all.

A legendary sword which has holy power to defeat zombies and vampires, I can conceptualize from known imagery (dead people, bats, swords, etc). Time Travel and what lies after death are kind of...up to the individual's interpretation in life. Unless you wanna tell me you've traveled in time or come back from the dead.

For this reason, these types of plot devices do not generate very deep or consistent storylines for long.

But what will, is the question?
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: NERV Agent on March 10, 2018, 06:10:04 am
I'm sorry, I can resist posting this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEkrWRHCDQU
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: mziab on March 10, 2018, 06:47:59 am
Time Travel as a plot device creates a very simple problem, and similar to portraying the Afterlife; no reports on the nature of such things exist at all.

[...]

For this reason, these types of plot devices do not generate very deep or consistent storylines for long.

But what will, is the question?

I'd say that by definition sci-fi can't be based on actual reports. It's fiction after all, some of it just more plausible than the rest. It can piggyback off existing images and concepts to make it easier to understand, which seems to be what you're saying. That being said, the concept is time travel isn't exactly new, dating back at least to H. G. Wells' The Time Machine.

To me the problem with writing a solid, internally consistent time-travel story is how easy it is to write oneself into a corner and run into unresolvable paradoxes, which often make writers resort to the use of deus ex machina or other such plot devices. It's very easy to pick apart many time travel stories for this reason. And some of those which try their hardest to be consistent end up being confusing for the average consumer, like Primer. The bottom line is, you need a really competent writer to do this kind of story justice.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: KaioShin on March 10, 2018, 08:44:01 am
And on the other hand we have a show like Doctor Who that is immensely popular with the masses and uses time travel plots on a very frequent basis. And they just explain it all with "timey-whimey". I agree that it's very easy to pick apart most time travel stories, but most people won't care. It's IMO not required for a time travel story to be airtight to be interesting.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: DarioEMeloD on March 10, 2018, 11:09:18 am
Well, in the Chrono universe there exists a separate dimension (https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Darkness_Beyond_Time.html) that's like a dump for "discarded" timelines (at least that's the explanation they gave after Cross)
Actually, part of Cross's plot revolves around facing the consequences of the Trigger team playing around with time too much.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: mziab on March 10, 2018, 12:34:35 pm
And on the other hand we have a show like Doctor Who that is immensely popular with the masses and uses time travel plots on a very frequent basis. And they just explain it all with "timey-whimey". I agree that it's very easy to pick apart most time travel stories, but most people won't care. It's IMO not required for a time travel story to be airtight to be interesting.

True, it's not required, but when you encounter one that is, it's a real sight to behold. Case in point, I think Steins;Gate is one of the best (if not the best) time travel stories I've had the pleasure of experiencing. It was consistent without beating you over the head with boring science. Although in the early part of the game, there is a segment dedicated to various time travel theories.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: magictrufflez on March 12, 2018, 06:29:46 pm
I think part of the problem when pulling off time travel in any media is the scope of said media.

Chrono Trigger has a relatively small world by RPG standards (the different time periods make it seem bigger than it actually is physical map-wise), which allowed the game makers to allow players to travel through time at will. The restrictions on time periods one could visit helped keep things manageable here obviously.

A lot of the other games that have time travel tend to only allow players to time travel in a very restricted way (ie Tales of Phantasia does not allow the player to move at will between time periods), which mostly prevents plot/logic holes for the most part.

I think part of the reason Dr. Who time travel works is that vagueness everyone mentions. There is established lore (just check the wiki pages), but it tends to leave a lot to the imagination--especially the newer iterations have generally glossed over a lot of the details in past series (see: a metric ton about Time Lords and Gallifrey, including the regeneration limit, which were literally Deus ex Machina'ed away to simplify things). Sure, this stuff gets referenced sometimes, but the newer series mostly started over and focuses more on adventure elements rather than a lot of the detailed world-building that went on in the original (IMO not a bad thing, just different).

So, I guess my two rules for good time travel in media are as follows:

1. If you plan on doing complex world/lore building and incorporate time travel, you should either A. restrict the scope of the world you build or B. restrict the role time travel plays.

2. If you want to time travel to be a central part of your narrative, you should reduce your world/lore-building to reduce the chances of detail problems arising.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: vico on March 12, 2018, 09:14:23 pm
Chrono Trigger has a relatively small world by RPG standards

If you just consider, superficially, the CT only. But if you consider the whole series you realize they pulled a whole archipelago from some pixels in CT ocean.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/chrono/images/f/fa/Chrono_Cross_World_Map/revision/latest?cb=20080715215710)
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: magictrufflez on March 14, 2018, 07:49:10 am
I CC kind of illustrates my point though--instead of doing time travel at all (even to the extent it was done in CT), that physically larger game world basically went with 1 alternate dimension instead of multiple time periods that interacted with each other to a certain extent.

And even with that scope limitation, CC's story is STILL a bit of a hot mess (I still don't quite understand much of the overarching plot, and I've finished it multiple times).
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Jorpho on March 14, 2018, 09:48:21 am
And even with that scope limitation, CC's story is STILL a bit of a hot mess (I still don't quite understand much of the overarching plot, and I've finished it multiple times).
It makes enough sense to me.  Well, I suppose the whole business with Queen Brahne and the Black Omen is a little weird.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: SleepyFist on March 18, 2018, 06:57:32 am
This wandered into my suggestions feed this morning and I found it amusing.

Chrono Trigger On PC Needs Help:
https://youtu.be/WSQUbJ1yXYY
 
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: DarioEMeloD on March 18, 2018, 11:14:02 am
They're already on it
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/ChronoTriggerModding/
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Jorpho on March 18, 2018, 11:39:10 am
It seems to me that although modding tools exist for FFVI PC, people seem to have abandoned the task of fixing every sprite in the game.  Quite understandable, considering how arduous that would be.  I would not expect Chrono Trigger to have a better fate.

Also, Tim Rogers is still doing stuff? Huh. "Professional Video Game Expert", indeed.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: John Enigma on April 03, 2018, 09:57:48 am
Sorry to bump this, but uh...

https://kotaku.com/chrono-trigger-pc-will-get-patched-to-add-the-original-1824279706
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on April 03, 2018, 05:38:30 pm
Sorry to bump this, but uh...

https://kotaku.com/chrono-trigger-pc-will-get-patched-to-add-the-original-1824279706
Hey, this might be worth looking into after all if you really want to.  The UI and missing arena would be the only issues now.

I doubt this option will happen for their other mobile ports though.  It was probably a small job to undo the graphical changes considering the original mobile source had none in the first place, and the UI is rather baked into FFV and VI's new graphics.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: John Enigma on April 11, 2018, 10:54:39 am
And I have to bump this again: https://kotaku.com/chrono-trigger-pc-looks-way-better-now-1825171895
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: thr on April 12, 2018, 12:22:37 am
so they added the option to remove the filter altogether, so you can now choose between no filter or crappy filter. either way it still looks worse than with super eagle, 2xsai or whatever on an emu.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Chronosplit on April 12, 2018, 09:24:58 am
so they added the option to remove the filter altogether, so you can now choose between no filter or crappy filter. either way it still looks worse than with super eagle, 2xsai or whatever on an emu.
It was more than just filter, they shifted out the tiles completely and apparently fixed most of the hilarious tile clashes.  I tend to like how it looks, but then again I'm a big fan of Nearest Neighbor.

I would've loved the option to pick the filter, but Square doesn't just apply them over the game like emulators (or really, most games that have it) do for some reason.  Maybe someone will mod that ability into the game for the un-filtered tiles.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: Xaliphe on April 12, 2018, 09:33:46 am
so they added the option to remove the filter altogether, so you can now choose between no filter or crappy filter. either way it still looks worse than with super eagle, 2xsai or whatever on an emu.

That's pretty subjective and you also have the option of using sweetfx/reshade for similar effects.
Title: Re: Chrono Trigger gets a Steam release.
Post by: thr on April 12, 2018, 12:58:43 pm
It was more than just filter, they shifted out the tiles completely and apparently fixed most of the hilarious tile clashes.  I tend to like how it looks, but then again I'm a big fan of Nearest Neighbor.

I would've loved the option to pick the filter, but Square doesn't just apply them over the game like emulators (or really, most games that have it) do for some reason.  Maybe someone will mod that ability into the game for the un-filtered tiles.

yea, that's because the issue with tile clashes was due to how squeenix upscaled and filtered individual tiles instead of simply using full-screen filtering. simply removing the upscaling fixed most of the tiling issues.
do note that some tile clashes are present even in the original CT as well. here's a pretty informative article on the subject from the guy who made Defender's Quest: link (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20180301/315059/Doing_an_HD_Remake_the_Right_Way_Chrono_Trigger_Edition.php).