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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Bregalad on October 25, 2017, 03:44:37 pm

Title: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on October 25, 2017, 03:44:37 pm
I mean, everyone seem to talk about Breath of Fire 2, blah blah...

Personally I find the original game is vastly superior in every way and is one of the rare cases where a game push its own sequel to shame. Only the story is more advanced in the second game - however the music and graphics and gameplay are better in the original. The battle animations in BOF2 looks cheesy and lacking, compared to those in BOF1 which are fluid.

Especially the music - BOF1 is a masterpiece, while BOF2 is very, very mediocre, especially for JRPG standards. Only one town theme, one dungeon theme, and not even good ones, very boring.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: magictrufflez on October 25, 2017, 07:01:33 pm
To be blunt, yes.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on October 25, 2017, 08:27:35 pm
I have some fondness for the original game (since it was the first game I bought myself as a kid, even used) and I played it after I had played the sequel (since I was only able to rent the second game at many stores).
Like, I didn't play the first until at least a year and a half after I had first played the second.

But even I would still say the first is a pretty average game.
I think even Nintendo Power noted the poor distribution of magic in the first game. You don't get the primary attack magic character until like 2/3 of the way through. But if there is an elemental weakness/resistance system even in the game, it is rarely used. So there is rather little strategy. Just spam the strongest attacks and heal.
Sorry I'm going to disagree on gameplay and say the second had better variety in the characters' battle capabilities. In BoF1, isn't Gobi's magic literally useless outside the small portions of the game you are underwater?

Though surprisingly out of all the TownShip features in BoF2, not a single one was a rename feature which BoF1 had (if not until halfway through the game. Seems silly to change the earlier characters' names after you had to get used to them for half the game already)
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on October 26, 2017, 05:00:23 am
I think even Nintendo Power noted the poor distribution of magic in the first game. You don't get the primary attack magic character until like 2/3 of the way through. But if there is an elemental weakness/resistance system even in the game, it is rarely used. So there is rather little strategy. Just spam the strongest attacks and heal
This is the case for most JRPGs of that era. Only Final Fantasy games actually forces you to use magic etc... because they are significantly more effective than physical attacks on at least a large pool of enemies.
In Breath of Fire I as well as II, magic is almost completely useless, muhc like in DQ games. If I remember well on BoF2, Nina is patheticly weak and even casting her best magic deals less damage than physical attacks from Ryu and other physical attackers of the game.

Quote
Sorry I'm going to disagree on gameplay and say the second had better variety in the characters' battle capabilities. In BoF1, isn't Gobi's magic literally useless outside the small portions of the game you are underwater?
You don't have to be sorry for disagreeing with me, actually I knew already I am in minority for preferring Bof1 over 2. I don't remember much of Gobi's magic, for me it's not something that makes a game great or not - although it can participate.

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Though surprisingly out of all the TownShip features in BoF2, not a single one was a rename feature which BoF1 had (if not until halfway through the game. Seems silly to change the earlier characters' names after you had to get used to them for half the game already)
Part of why I don't like BoF2 is probably because I completely missed that TownShip and got the bad ending as a result -
Spoiler:
saving Ryu's father
was unthinkable at the level I was - the boss would just wipe my party if I tried.

And considering how boring BoF2 is, I'm not ready to replay it to get the good ending.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on October 26, 2017, 05:56:52 am
You are not. I don't care for the music in BoF2 (oh boy, MIDI Metal Guitar samples everywhere), the character designs likewise fall flat with me. I've only ever played the retranslation Ryusui did, but I got up to the part where ...I dunno, the religious undertones start up or something. An avid player will recognize that point better than I would remember it. Rand's hometown?

The whole thing is like milk and water compared to BoF1, to me. I'm with ya Breg. I didn't care for 3 and I've never played any further into the series. I realize they are respected games, but the first installment was the only one that ever made me want to finish the game or get invested in the characters.


To be blunt, yes.

To be blunt, you're wrong and shouldn't have been so presumptuous! :D
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Idkbutlike2 on October 26, 2017, 08:07:10 am
I don't think either SNES BoF is a masterpiece or anything, but BoF1 definitely had fewer dumb quirks than its sequels. BoF2's combat balancing is awful, the encounter rate is way too high, there's too much backtracking, building your town involves a bunch of factors that can only be known with a guide, and fast travel in the late game is abysmally slow.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on October 26, 2017, 11:12:17 am
Both games suffer from a poor combat system. Neither really take any sort of strategy because most elemental weakness are either nonexistent or don't matter, status ailments/buffs either don't work on monsters or there's no reason to use them on the ones they do work on and dealing damage boils down to transforming into/summoning Ryu's dragon then pressing A for almost everyone and healing.

The music in 1 is definitely better to me than 2 but 2 does have some nice tracks. Graphically 1 is better than 2 and the biggest reason I say that is the battle backgrounds in 1 actually change depending on the area you got into a battle (if you're on a bridge your battle background is a bridge). These background changes seem to be absent from 2. 2 does have some cool spell animations and some of the transformations are pretty neat too (hello fire monkey genie??).

Of course the 2nd game has a superior story but I think with maybe a retranslation/text expansion the first one could be brought slightly up to par.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: magictrufflez on October 26, 2017, 10:41:40 pm
To be blunt, you're wrong and shouldn't have been so presumptuous! :D

I'm an adult and I can project my opinion onto others whenever I want and refuse to change my opinion in the face of any/all information!

But seriously, I believe Mike mentioned a lot of my beefs with anyone claiming 1 was better than 2.  2's gameplay is much more balanced (even if only taking endgame--the last 20% or so of 1 is a complete joke once you get Agni, whereas 2 is legit difficult even if you know how to exploit the game as much as possible), I personally like 2's music quite a bit more (even the remake of 1's world map theme is better than the original IMO), and the graphics were just overall superior in detail. And to the point about magic, I 100% disagree about the utility of magic in 1 vs 2--attack magic outside dragon spells in 1 were rarely useful once you got dragon powers, whereas physical attacks and magic are generally on par with each other in 2 until endgame (the balance only really breaks here if you know what you're doing or spam dragon magic/WiseBls). Hell, even your physical attack in 1 was obsolete from the 2nd dungeon until roughly when you get Bo by the infinite auto-30 damage per hit Quake key--and there are more than a few other simple exploits that make an already easy game even easier (don't even get me started on lvl 50 characters before you get Karn).

This isn't to say that I don't enjoy some sections of BoF 1 (some of the soundtrack is pretty good), but I just can't see any part of the game that was objectively better than the sequel. 3 is a whole different ballgame though (I'm not as big a fan as most).

Also, /endrant.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on October 27, 2017, 06:26:26 am
You are not. I don't care for the music in BoF2 (oh boy, MIDI Metal Guitar samples everywhere), the character designs likewise fall flat with me.
Well, probably we are both very sensitive to music, and that plays a huge role why we don't enjoy BoF2 nearly as much as BoF1. The difference is really glaring, the music not only fell in quality but also in quantity with music pieces being much less varied in BoF2 than 1.

In BoF1 it's a shame they were probably limited with memory and something, but I find the music to be particularly of great quality, but it often loops too fast sadly. And that with only a single instrument set which never changes again !

but I got up to the part where ...I dunno, the religious undertones start up or something.
If you think Breath of Fire II has religious undertones, then you definitely missed a large part of the storylines and the plot twists at the end of the game.
Spoiler:
The game is actually very much anti-religious as possible, and basically the main story of the game revolves about a religion which is pure evil and where people's prayers go to make the last boss stronger. It's harder to be more anti-religious than Breath of Fire II. As a christian I was almost offended by the game's story - even though I of course fully understand it's entierely ficionnal.

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The whole thing is like milk and water compared to BoF1, to me. I'm with ya Breg. I didn't care for 3 and I've never played any further into the series. I realize they are respected games, but the first installment was the only one that ever made me want to finish the game or get invested in the characters.
Well, 3 is actually pretty good I found, especially compared to the extremely boring 2. It still have a huge balance problem like it's two predecessors (probably even worse) - Nina is completely useless in 3, and there's another very muscled character that actually does very little damage when attacking - basically Ryu is the only useful playable character and the others are barely there to heal him.

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I don't think either SNES BoF is a masterpiece or anything, but BoF1 definitely had fewer dumb quirks than its sequels. BoF2's combat balancing is awful, the encounter rate is way too high, there's too much backtracking, building your town involves a bunch of factors that can only be known with a guide, and fast travel in the late game is abysmally slow.
My point exactly - I travelled with whale only since I didn't have the town ship, ever. I didn't even guess you could have one before having access to the interenet.

By the way going inside a whale is one of the very few "cool" parts of BoF2. The other cool part is the tournament. (Or was it in BoF3 ? Or both ? I don't remember). The rest is boring, particularly the quest where you should cook insect for frogs. That part which took hours of doing something stupid getting stuck in that stupid castle with awful music. S.T.U.P.I.D.

BoF1 might have a simplistic story (it just resolves after finding a collection of keys and travelling 'round the world) but at least you visit interesting parts, desert places with arabic music, underwater village, a tower which uses mode 7 to give you the impression you are shrunk, and there is mazes and puzzles a little everywhere, plus optional chest backtracking. BoF2 have none of this, and it's a huge step backwards for the series.

For me the combat is secondary - BoF1 being too easy or whathever plays a minor role in it's enjoyment - while visiting interesting places and having good music is more interesting. BoF2 is basically a huge grindfest, especially in the last dungeon which is incredibly HUGE and BORING and HARD as well and requires hours and hours of grinding to have any chance to get to ever reach the 413th underground floor where the last boss is located.

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I 100% disagree about the utility of magic in 1 vs 2--attack magic outside dragon spells in 1 were rarely useful once you got dragon powers, whereas physical attacks and magic are generally on par with each other in 2 until endgame
Then the balance is broken, magic is supposed to be significantly more effective than physical attacks of your best attacker, because you waste MP for it ! If this is not the case, then magic is useless, and I think in Bof2 it's not completely useless (as it is in Bof3) but borderline useless.

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he balance only really breaks here if you know what you're doing or spam dragon magic/WiseBls
Dragon can't be "spammed" in Bof2 since you can only cast it once, after that Ryu has 0 MP, and only by healing his mana you can do that again, but it takes time and is weak if his MP weren't full at the time of the summon.

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Hell, even your physical attack in 1 was obsolete from the 2nd dungeon until roughly when you get Bo by the infinite auto-30 damage per hit Quake key--and there are more than a few other simple exploits that make an already easy game even easier (don't even get me started on lvl 50 characters before you get Karn).
I have no idea what you're talking about - but in all cases when I mentionned that playing BoF1 is a better experience than BoF2, I meant on a normal playthrough - without guides, cheats or anything. I didn't mean exploiting the game or whathever.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: thr on October 27, 2017, 10:27:06 am
BoF I is a great introductory-level RPG, with sweet music, colourful graphics and varied characters. it's certainly unpolished at the edges, and generally quite simple, but also fully manageable and fun to play from start to finish. I've successfully used it to introduce the jRPG genre to some people, and the response was universally positive.

BoF II is another thing. While the story seems more mature and touches on some deeper sentiments than its predecessor (religion is a lie), it looks like the makers were overambitious, so it's somewhat unfinished in places, or at least rushed, which becomes painfully obvious in the endgame section. the retranslation and fan patches help the matters in some respect, but it's still much more difficult, unbalanced and strange at times. also the general mood is much darker than the first. my small sample of jRPG novices were universally impressed by the intro, but then everyone gets bored or stuck at some point. I think it tells a lot about a game when the intro is its best part.

all in all, the first Breath of Fire is simply more pleasant to play, while playing no. 2 is honestly a bit of a chore. So yeah, I'd say BoF 1 is superior.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on October 27, 2017, 02:39:48 pm
Fully agree with that - but
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I think it tells a lot about a game when the intro is its best part.
I must admit that the intro is also the best part of BoF1, at least story-wise. Also the part where you have to rescue Ryu with Nina and her soldiers. But after that the story is extremely plain - but that doesn't matter because the game is fun.

BoF2 is definitely much darker than 1; and 3 is somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on October 28, 2017, 01:32:56 pm
(don't even get me started on lvl 50 characters before you get Karn).
How do you get level 50 characters before Karn?
You have got to be cheating in which case you shouldn't really complain about it being too easy. :P
I assume the GBA version gave boosted EXP/coins as BoF2 did, but it can't be that much?

Level 50 would require excessive grinding by even end-game standards.
I recall that due to weird EXP growth curves (SNES BoF1 never tells you in any way how much EXP you need to level-up), ending with Nina at level 46 and Bleu at 42 is pretty normal.
Just how weird is that Bleu gains levels very fast until I think she reached 41 at 100,000, then needs 200,000 to reach level 42 and 280,000 to reach 43 (I recall getting that far, even though that EXP is beyond normal for the end game)
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on October 28, 2017, 01:43:30 pm
Quote
Well, 3 is actually pretty good I found, especially compared to the extremely boring 2. It still have a huge balance problem like it's two predecessors (probably even worse) - Nina is completely useless in 3, and there's another very muscled character that actually does very little damage when attacking - basically Ryu is the only useful playable character and the others are barely there to heal him.

To a degree, the balance in 3 almost entirely revolves around which Masters you train under, or whether or not you use them at all.

Last time I played through 3 was the only time I really bothered using Masters, and by the end of the game everyone besides Momo could stomp just about every normal enemy in the game. My setup:

Ryu & Rei- The speed master at the tea house/resturant right before you get to the synthetic

Nina - That old mage dude in the forest in the first area of the world map, and then switch to the OTHER mage guy the moment you can (the mage guy that askls you to throw the match at the tournament)

Garr & Peco - Can't remember where t his one's at off the top of my head like the others above, but it's the Master that ups your Attack and Defense gains and lowers your speed gains on level. Garr's always slow as shit anyway, so it's the perfect one for him, and if you purposely keep Peco at Lvl 1 until you set him to this master, he'll become the most over-the-top fucking powerhouse in the entire game.  :woot!:

Momo - ...Fuck Momo.



Aaaaaand that's my setup.  :thumbsup:




As for 1 & 2 - I liked 1 waaay more than 2. Just enjoyed the feel of the progression more, the music was more catchy, and it felt more like you were on adventure with all the random scenarios coming out of left field.

Don't get me wrong, 2 hits some of the same points, but it feels like it takes forever to get the ball rolling, and the hill has a few more bumps on it than before. I liked the inbattle graphics a bit more and some of the battle themes were pretty badass until you heard them for the four millionth time or so. Still fun to play through, all in all.


Tbh I enjoyed the hell out of all four Breath of Fires, though I never managed to play through 4 more than once. Really wish Capcom would bring the series back as a jacked out mix of the first two games with, some of the battle mechanics of the later two.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Almagest on October 28, 2017, 10:12:53 pm
Never played BoF1. I think I'll play it before playing 2.

Momo - ...Fuck Momo.
How dare you insult my waifu, blasphemerrr
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: deadlyblossom on November 04, 2017, 11:48:04 am
What about the Ryu/Nina pairing in 2?
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on November 04, 2017, 01:32:51 pm
I don't know what you are referring to.

Spoiler:
Are you talking about how Ryu and Nina in BoF1 got married in the ending, causing the BoF2 Nina to get the cursed black wings?
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: magictrufflez on November 05, 2017, 08:56:40 am
How do you get level 50 characters before Karn?
You have got to be cheating in which case you shouldn't really complain about it being too easy. :P
I assume the GBA version gave boosted EXP/coins as BoF2 did, but it can't be that much?

Actually, it's relatively simple to do and not cheating at all, although marginally grindy.

Because of how the XP allocation works (ie the number displayed is divided by the total number of party members you have), and 9999 is the maximum XP you can ever be allotted in 1 battle, the earliest point in the game where you can feasibly grind high levels (or at least much higher than you should be) is around Bleak when G Slimes pop up. When you reach this point, you should just have 3 heroes, making the 800XP per G Slime a pretty massive haul, and 3 G slimes will give you better XP per character at this point than almost any other random battle in the entire game (there are 2 exceptions: M Slimes, which can be difficult to spawn regularly, and one of the random battles near Scande). At a certain point you can run from everything that aren't G Slimes, streamlining the leveling process even more.

Since you have more characters later in the game, leveling up becomes much less efficient after this point unless you kill people off intentionally. Even though the grind can be long to get to lvl 50 using this method, it's mostly faster than any other method (for the Hero, Nina, and Bo at least--but especially Nina who has nerfed XP requirements until the mid 40s).

Yet another thing BoF 2 did better than 1 (IMO)--it kind of made this particular math exploit impossible.

And while I'm here:

Dragon can't be "spammed" in Bof2 since you can only cast it once, after that Ryu has 0 MP, and only by healing his mana you can do that again, but it takes time and is weak if his MP weren't full at the time of the summon.

...

I have no idea what you're talking about - but in all cases when I mentionned that playing BoF1 is a better experience than BoF2, I meant on a normal playthrough - without guides, cheats or anything. I didn't mean exploiting the game or whathever.

I'll leave most of the post alone, but yes you can spam dragon attacks as long as the hero's AP is under or around 100 and you can cook.  If you can cook, you can make tons of WiseBls, which, when used by a slower character than the hero, will allow you to use full-strength dragon summons every turn. But your point about the system is why I like it better--no 1-time MP dump for Agni and then just attack-attack-attack-cure-attack ad nauseum for literally every boss in the last 10-20% of the game. I actually have to work to make the dragon spam work in 2.

And to the 2nd point, you clearly never used the E Key you get in the 2nd dungeon in battle, because it's an automatic, 30 damage to everything on screen with unlimited uses, which isn't outclassed by much of anything until you get Bo, and after that is basically better than all Nina's attacks (and some other characters' too) until almost endgame.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on November 06, 2017, 12:39:04 am
May I add at this point, totally unrelated to anything else in the thread, a little comparison/contrast chart for you guys.

Breath of Fire 1 - = = = - Breath of Fire 2
Hero has cape.................Hero has no cape
Hero does hero                Hero gets around
stuff right away...............to it eventually
Plot is basically                Plot makes you feel
'defeat the Empire'..........bad for believing in God
Sad feels at the               Sad feels at the start
start of the game             of the game, which
and then later                  you must jump thru
again if you keep             ridiculous hoops to
playing...........................eventually resolve
Support characters           Support characters
are mostly cool af............are goofy looking
You go into a                   I dunno, God is
person's dreams              evil and screw you
to save their life..............for praying?
Bleu's neckline................Katt's lack of pants? :/
Ox punches shit..............Rand rolls in a ball??

BoF 2 has that classic '2nd installment weirdness." You can see this in the Castlevania Series, the Mario Series, Metroid, Final Fantasy, etc etc, many more. Often the designers will try to stretch their wings a little on their second outing if the first one has become a hit, and use the focus group data they collect from the experiment to make a third installment. Exceptions to this include Megaman (the 2nd installment is regarded so highly that some say it's the best game in the series), Dragon Quest (2 practically is still the template for most DQ games), and Kid Icarus (whose sequel is basically just a Gameboyified version of it).

But there is often some goofiness and stumbling in the sophomore outing of any creative work, and it is common across all mediums. Bands and Recording Artists tend to refer to it as a "Sophomore Slump."
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 06, 2017, 01:07:59 am
"Makes you feel bad for believing in God" I guess if that god is sending out/turning people into demons and sucking the world's life energy you should feel bad...
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on November 06, 2017, 01:26:40 am
"Makes you feel bad for believing in God" I guess if that god is sending out/turning people into demons and sucking the world's life energy you should feel bad...

That would be the Devil?

The Devil usurping God's authority and and misusing his power to victimize mortals is kind of an old story. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost)

But I'm fully prepared to accept that this game wants to pin it on the entire concept of God, "God is evil," "Mankind has outgrown their need for religion," "people who believe in God are shitheads, fuck them"...

Really, doing any kind of story about God is dumb. Nothing you can do in a work of fiction will do the idea of it justice, anyway. It's gonna be a letdown from any angle you try to take it. See Star Trek V for an example.

I really don't care if people want to vomit on likenesses of the Pope for fun and profit, I'm just not a warlike person. All I'm saying is that writing a story that includes God as a character is just bad writing.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 06, 2017, 02:12:47 am
To me the narrative isn't saying 'God is evil or you're dumb for believing' but it's asking the question 'do you actually know what you're believing in?'. The people in the game sure didn't.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on November 06, 2017, 02:55:42 am
May I add at this point, totally unrelated to anything else in the thread, a little comparison/contrast chart for you guys.

Breath of Fire 1 - = = = - Breath of Fire 2
Hero has cape.................Hero has no cape
This alone summaries how BoF1 is vastly supperior  ;D


Quote
You go into a                   I dunno, God is
person's dreams              evil and screw you
to save their life..............for praying?
On BoF2's behalf, you go inside a whale, which is as cool as going into someone's dream.

Quote
Bleu's neckline................Katt's lack of pants? :/
Bleu is here in both games.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on November 06, 2017, 03:29:01 am
Quote from: Spooniest
Breath of Fire 1 - = = = - Breath of Fire 2
Hero has cape.................Hero has no cape

This alone summaries how BoF1 is vastly supperior  ;D

If you notice, his 'cape hand' changes depending on which way you're facing. Not even Zelda 3 bothered to give Link a two-directional sprite. Super Metroid would've been Nintendo's outing on the SNES which opted for such detail...

This means that BoF1 and Super Metroid have something in common. The case just gets deeper for your argument, Bregalad...

Edit: Hrngggghhhh why do I say things...no his sprite doesn't change depending on which way you're facing. I'm replaying it now :( Me and my big mouth
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on November 06, 2017, 12:12:51 pm
May I add at this point, totally unrelated to anything else in the thread, a little comparison/contrast chart for you guys.

Breath of Fire 1 - = = = - Breath of Fire 2
You go into a                   I dunno, God is
person's dreams              evil and screw you
to save their life..............for praying?

Did you play like even 75% of the way through BoF2? :P
Spoiler:
That happens there, too. Though at the least BoF2's single dream world is shorter than either of BoF1's and yet they let you exit it before finishing it too.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on November 06, 2017, 03:05:03 pm
Did you play like even 75% of the way through BoF2? :P

Eh, probably not. I make no claim of being fair or unbiased in any of this.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Recca on November 06, 2017, 03:09:07 pm
I also agree that Breath of Fire 1 is overall better than the second one (in terms of characters, story line and of course music). Then again, the Breath of Fire series gradually spirals downwards in my opinion. Every sequel seems to be worse than the previous one. So, from best to worst, that would be the following: 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. The first one is the best and the second one is pretty good too, but the other three don't quite appeal to me. Well, I suppose that the third one is alright, but that's about it. One other thing worth mentioning, is that everyone is pure blooded in the first game and each character has a unique ability. This was something that was lost in the other games, namely the ability to transform for Ryu and Nina.

As for the story line in the second game, I think that the so called "God" is actually a demon/devil that's tricking people by pretending it's holy to absorb their energy. I believe that it also teaches people not to blindly follow or obey any religion or priest. In other words, people need to find and realize the truth for themselves. Similar, but not quite the same to the evil trickster Goddess in the first and third game.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on November 06, 2017, 03:33:20 pm
Also in Spoony's comparison between the first two games.

Spoiler:
Breath of Fire 1: Ryu kills his sister.
Breath of Fire 2: Ryu saves (what his implied to be) his sister.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Bregalad on November 07, 2017, 06:49:07 am
ne other thing worth mentioning, is that everyone is pure blooded in the first game and each character has a unique ability. This was something that was lost in the other games, namely the ability to transform for Ryu and Nina.
In BoF2 everyone can transform, Ruy has dragon and the other shaman transformations, also beating the game without using any of that would be a challenge. In BoF3 Ryu can still transform into a dragon, I'm pretty sure this is the "trademark" of the series, removing that would make a game non-Breath of Fire, just like removing Airships would make a Final Fantasy game non-Final Fantasy, or removing slimes would make a Dragon Quest game non-Dragon Quest.

I don't remember Nina transforming in BoF1 in battle, do you mean the bird transformation outside of battle ? Gobi transforms as well.

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So, from best to worst, that would be the following: 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
I didn't play 4, but so far I mostly agree. In some regards 3 is better than 2, and 5, although being horrible gameplay-wise, has a great soundtrack (I can't say so much of 2...)
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: FAST6191 on November 07, 2017, 07:33:58 am
I always found the character of the Abrahamic boss god to be bad writing (an all seeing, all knowing, all powerful, infinitely capable being without concept of time, distance, pain/suffering, nor energy, yet apparently humans are in that image and said being seems broadly ambivalent to said pain and suffering, as well as needing love despite demonstrating none on their part), to that end I guess if you are going to include such a concept as a tenet of your game (rather than maybe an in game work or something) you inherit some bad writing and that is not a good start.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Recca on November 07, 2017, 06:45:20 pm
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I don't remember Nina transforming in BoF1 in battle, do you mean the bird transformation outside of battle?
Yes, that's what I meant. Nina loses the ability to transform into the great bird in the other games since everyone after the first game is no longer pure blooded. Although Ryu can still technically transform into a dragon in the other games, it's still not quite the same. In Breath of Fire 2, he uses up all his AP for one powerful attack. Whereas, in the first game, he can stay transformed into a dragon thoughout the entire battle, dealing tons of damage each turn (especially with Agni - 999 damage per turn). So in other words, the Breath of Fire 1 characters are better than the ones in the other games.

Ryu in the first game for example would easily beat the ones from the other games using his dragon transformations. He might even be a better swordsman than the other ones as well. Ox also seems stronger than Rand (being able to shake trees by punching them as well as the ability to move heavy objects thoughout the game). Nina is more useful as a healer/fighter than a mage and Karn is the only actual human you get to use in the whole Breath of Fire series as far as I remember. Not to mention the fact that his fusions are better than the shaman ones in the second game which defuse when a character is low on HP or during certain cutscenes.

Being able to swap out characters any time, even during battle was also an original and useful perk. I don't understand why Ryu can't transform into Agni when Karn and the others are fused, but whatever. Being able to run a store with Gobi was pretty original as well for an RPG during the time. I believe that's how you get Ox and Nina's best weapons. And last, but not least, saving at the Dragon Lord temples in the first game was quicker and more convenient than having to use the churches in the second game, since not every town has a dragon shrine. It's also pretty ironic since they're considered to be enemies that worship a false demon god.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 07, 2017, 07:46:48 pm
I'm pretty sure the reason they can't turn into birds in BoF2 is because of some cursed prophecy having to do with Nina from BoF1 marrying Ryu. None of the Wyndians can turn into birds and I doubt they are all mixed race.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Azkadellia on November 07, 2017, 10:47:07 pm
No. They can turn into birds. They just have to face a trial in which they're tested to see if they can handle it. But there's a downside; once they turn into birds, they forget about being human and everything.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 08, 2017, 12:00:46 am
I don't think that's something multiple people can do. Seems like they pass it down to one person and maybe that person eventually dies and their spirit passes it on to someone else.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Spooniest on November 08, 2017, 04:12:03 am
I don't think that's something multiple people can do.

Exactly what she said.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 08, 2017, 04:25:07 am
Exactly what she said.

Except she didn't say exactly that at all...
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: KingMike on November 08, 2017, 01:31:05 pm
No. They can turn into birds. They just have to face a trial in which they're tested to see if they can handle it. But there's a downside; once they turn into birds, they forget about being human and everything.
I'm guessing that was still part of the curse.
In BoF1 they could freely transform back and forth (such as the soldiers who bring Ryu to fight the Wizard after he poisons Nina).
Although why they don't fly there directly instead of walking, I don't know.
Spoiler:
Nina's story in BoF1 is a little confusing. So the "child" Nina (pink dress) is amnesia? A time-traveler? I know that only "adult" Nina (the blue dress one in Tunlan) can fly. Why there are two Ninas is the part I don't understand. The two soldiers that initially join her should be able to fly, yes? Actually yes they should, because how they even learn about the wizard was one of the two poisoned soldiers using its last life force to fly back to warn the others.
Was adult Nina sent back in time for unknown reasons by Cara (or Karla, in Japanese. I guess they changed her name since they didn't want to give a demon a real human name? Then again, she was once a non-evil human.)
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: deadlyblossom on November 18, 2017, 11:46:29 am
I don't know what you are referring to.

Spoiler:
Are you talking about how Ryu and Nina in BoF1 got married in the ending, causing the BoF2 Nina to get the cursed black wings?

Just BoF 1 Ryu/Nina that caused BoF2 Nina to have Black Wings due to Dragon Clan DNA?

You got proof show me proof that the BoF 2 Nina can turn into a dragon killing any Capcom god like St Eva and the same goes for Ultron Sigma.
Title: Re: Am I alone in thinking Breath of Fire 1 is vastly supperior to its sequel?
Post by: Axiphel on November 18, 2017, 12:19:06 pm
I'm guessing that was still part of the curse.
In BoF1 they could freely transform back and forth (such as the soldiers who bring Ryu to fight the Wizard after he poisons Nina).
Although why they don't fly there directly instead of walking, I don't know.
Spoiler:
Nina's story in BoF1 is a little confusing. So the "child" Nina (pink dress) is amnesia? A time-traveler? I know that only "adult" Nina (the blue dress one in Tunlan) can fly. Why there are two Ninas is the part I don't understand. The two soldiers that initially join her should be able to fly, yes? Actually yes they should, because how they even learn about the wizard was one of the two poisoned soldiers using its last life force to fly back to warn the others.
Was adult Nina sent back in time for unknown reasons by Cara (or Karla, in Japanese. I guess they changed her name since they didn't want to give a demon a real human name? Then again, she was once a non-evil human.)

Nina got all timey wimey'd by the Time Key when the party was trying to save Carmen from being frozen in time. So she got sent into the past where she fell in Tunlan.