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Romhacking => ROM Hacking Discussion => Topic started by: slidelljohn on August 08, 2017, 03:58:40 pm

Title: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on August 08, 2017, 03:58:40 pm
Here is a file including 5 projects that I have been working on
for mega man x v1.1 and the 7th saga.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/05aanc66u9d44xl/My%20work%20in%20progress%20projects.rar (https://www.mediafire.com/file/05aanc66u9d44xl/My%20work%20in%20progress%20projects.rar)

1. There is a video for my mega man x competition cart.
2. I have a patch for all graphics decompressed in mega man
    x v1.1.
3. Another patch for mega man x v1.1 that allows for 128kb
    vram. The 128kb vram patch only works for higan v100
    and up.
4. A mega man x level editor that is in very early stages. Right
    now it only views bg1 tiles. This editor wont be finished for
    a long time and it will only work with my reconstructed
    project for mmx. You must have a 4k screen to view
    everything.
5. A 7th saga editor. Doesn't edit anything just yet but you can
   view sprites for 7th saga and elnard. It also has a early
   stage paint system you just cant save anything yet.

I haven't posted much in the past few years but I have still been working on some things. I still get asked about my work and new patches so I decided to post these for everybody. These are still being worked on just at a slow pace.

Updated 1-3-18:
I have decided to change this wip page from mmx and 7th saga to just a wip page for 7th saga. I still plan to work on mmx and create new things for it. I changed it because I didn't want to clutter up this page with 2 different games.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: mrrichard999 on August 09, 2017, 01:13:33 am
These are all good! Look forward to seeing them finished.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: azoreseuropa on August 10, 2017, 07:29:55 am
Here is a file including 5 projects that I have been working on
for mega man x v1.1 and the 7th saga.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/05aanc66u9d44xl/My%20work%20in%20progress%20projects.rar (https://www.mediafire.com/file/05aanc66u9d44xl/My%20work%20in%20progress%20projects.rar)

1. There is a video for my mega man x competition cart.
2. I have a patch for all graphics decompressed in mega man
    x v1.1.
3. Another patch for mega man x v1.1 that allows for 128kb
    vram. The 128kb vram patch only works for higan v100
    and up.
4. A mega man x level editor that is in very early stages. Right
    now it only views bg1 tiles. This editor wont be finished for
    a long time and it will only work with my reconstructed
    project for mmx. You must have a 4k screen to view
    everything.

I haven't posted much in the past few years but I have still been working on some things. I still get asked about my work and new patches so I decided to post these for everybody. These are still being worked on just at a slow pace.

Awesome. Keep up the good work. Maybe the screenshots can help. :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on August 10, 2017, 08:49:13 pm
@mrrichard999, @azoreseuropa
Thanks! Next time I get a chance I'll try to post some pictures.

Here is another patch that I have been sitting on for a
little over a year. It's for the 7th saga and all graphics are decompressed. You can now edit all of 7th saga's graphics
in your favorite tile editor without dealing with the compression. Towns and dungeons also load slightly faster.
Check it out and let me know if there are any bugs.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/e7c5wc558e43u5c/7th_Saga%2C_The_%28U%29_%5B%21%5Dbeta_gfx_decomp.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/file/e7c5wc558e43u5c/7th_Saga%2C_The_%28U%29_%5B%21%5Dbeta_gfx_decomp.zip)

The next 2 patches I'm going to work on are:
1. Mega man x v1.1 no more passwords only sram.
2. Not sure how hard this is gonna be but I will have active battles in 7th saga like final fantasy 3 snes. Probably going to remove mode 7 from inside of battles to get it set up how I want it to look. Lol this one is gonna be fun!

Something else that I'm considering doing is adding sa-1 chip to mega man x but I'm not sure if I'm going to add that or just start hacking the psx version of mega man x3. I already wrote
a graphics decompressor/compressor for the psx version of
mega man x3 I just don't know how to edits sprites yet for the psx.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on December 28, 2017, 08:51:17 pm
So I made a new patch for 7th saga. This patch will have towns blink blue if there is a apprentice there just like how the towns will blink red if there is a rune there. I tried to get some pictures uploaded but I couldn't figure out how to do it from my phone. In the .rar file there are a few pics. If I can get to a pc later I'll upload the pics. Here is the patch:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/xh7hkkenkd8w68r/7th_saga_blue_blinking_for_apprentice_in_town.rar

If there are any bugs let me know. Not sure if redX is still around but I think this was his idea. Him and I or someone else talked about this years ago. I created this patch sometime ago but I just now decided to release it. I hope you 7th saga fans like it. In the readme I show how you can modify the patch for your liking.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: wanzer on December 28, 2017, 10:57:53 pm
The graphics decompression thing really sounds awesome. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: mrrichard999 on December 28, 2017, 11:46:26 pm
Those 7th saga patches are worth uploading.. Someone might pick up on it and do a full hack on it :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on December 29, 2017, 01:07:31 am
You're right they should be. I actually have lots of 7th saga stuff that nobody has seen yet. I have new spells, new weapons that can give you magic, new items, a fully working patch that lets you get to level 99, I have separated gold and experience values so the algorithm that multiplies experience x 2.3 = gold is gone(not sure the exact value I'm sure it's not 2.3 but it's something like that), a incomplete editor that lets you view all of the town and dungeon maps, I have new enemies and new spells that were never in the game. I pretty much have the whole game documented. 7th saga is the main reason why I got into programming. Lots of this stuff I created while developing my programming skills. One day or year I will release all of my work when it's ready.

The decompressed graphics hack I think I'm going to rewrite part of it but the blue blinking hack I'll probably upload it. The blue blinking hack is kinda cool how it works. The blue blinking patch still needs someone other than myself to test it and make sure it's working correctly. Can you or somebody that knows 7th saga test it out and see if it's working without any bugs? I'll upload it if someone can confirm that it's working correctly without any bugs.

When I last worked on the blue blinking hack I found the poorly written asm for the slowdown in the menus and the slowdown when walking around on the world map. I think I can easily fix the slowdown on the world map but I might not be able to fix the slowdown in the menus unless I do a lot of code rewriting because of how the original programmers used the oam ram. The sprite tiles for the menus in oam menus are constantly changing even if you are not moving through the menus and that is the main reason for the slowdown in the menus. The original programmers did not do a good job they didn't even program it correctly for fastrom. It still loads some code and data below $80:0000. It has code that changes the bank to $00 and that's not fastrom that's slowrom. It should be $80 + for fastrom.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: mrrichard999 on December 29, 2017, 02:36:48 am
I got my O face on!   :O

Can you add any of the enemies from 7th saga 2 also? Not sure if it's expandable to that much... Man that would make for an awesome add-on!
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on December 29, 2017, 05:09:37 am
Yes I can and I have. 7th saga has tones of room for expansion. There is also a unused enemy in 7th saga 2 that I put in 7th saga. Not sure why that enemies graphics were unused but it's a cool looking enemy. I'm not sure if I have that patch anymore but I could make a new one if you want to see it. Or better yet which enemy from 7th saga 2 would you like to see in 7th saga? The asm for the ai I still have to do by hand but I can probably get a patch together for a added enemy sometime this weekend if you would like to see a enemy from 7th saga 2 in 7th saga. I just won't be able to add the spells or effects that the enemy has in 7th saga 2 because it's a lot of asm work(time) to transfer to 7th saga but I can definitely add the enemy quite easily. Any enemy I add can cast 7th saga spells. The phantasy stars for the genesis also has enemies that I will add.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: IrohDW on December 29, 2017, 03:48:52 pm

I did some preliminary testing on the blue blinking patch and it seems to work perfectly  :thumbsup:. It not only blinks blue if an apprentice is in a town, but it alternates between red and blue if an apprentice is in a town and there is a rune there. I did notice that the town of Patrof does not blink blue even though the apprentice who has the Star Rune is there. It isn't a big deal, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

The slowdown seems rather odd. When I play the game using Snes9x Debugger on my PC, the slowdown is clearly present in the item and spell menus when I am on the world map and sometimes when I am in a town. However, when I play on Snes9x for the New 3DS, the slowdown is not present at all.


I also have a lot of patches, documentation, etc. for the game that I have not released because they aren't completely finished yet. Since there is still interest in this game, I'll provide some links to them.

7th Saga Editor: https://github.com/sethmjackson/7th-Saga-Editor/tree/Kotlin

In order to use this editor, run the file 7th-Saga-Editor.jar in the Executable folder

This editor was originally written in Java, but I eventually ported it to Kotlin, it has a lot of advanced features that are not usually found in ROM Editors such as:

Support for modifying the character, apprentice, spell, item, equipment, shop, and monster tables
Showing the unmodified values of the game data to give the user a frame of reference for their changes.
When saving changes, it automatically creates Excel spreadsheets which show the original data values and what they have been changed to
The editor does not show empty table entries* and allows the user to sort data in tables to make it easier to organize
Duplicate monsters (monsters that have more than one entry in the monster table) are treated as one entity and changes to one will effect them all*
Support for my magic and speed patch, which allows magic and speed to go up to 999 for characters and monsters without using additional ram addresses
Support for allowing the user to change experience levels using a math formula instead of needing to edit each level individually (e.g. exp needed per level = level^2)
* these features will be able to be turned off in a future version of the editor


I am currently working on a text editor that allows the user to read or write text to any location in the game, search the entire game for a string the user types in, or move text from one location to another in order to create room for longer text blocks. However, there are a few text characters I don't understand, such as 0xF6, which is used to give the player a dialogue option to choose from, as well as execute code (set flags, start battle, etc.)

The older version of this editor that is written in Java can be found here: https://github.com/sethmjackson/7th-Saga-Editor

Features I would like to include, but don't know how to accomplish:

Read sprites from the game so that the user can visually see the characters and monsters they are editing
Modify sprites, objects, the world map, etc.
The ability to expand the rom, and possibly add new world or dungeon maps


7th Saga Documentation: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lebhsvk7p4o0cw9/AADhPRAROBMTtsxia_9EQPvoa?dl=0

These documents show every assembly change I have made to the game. It is a little disorganized, but a lot of useful information on the internal workings of the game can be found within.



Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on December 29, 2017, 08:28:13 pm
Impressive work Red X! I'm glad you're still around. It looks like we have both improved our skills since the last time we spoke. Do you know any c++? I use QT c++ for my test programs and I can edit all of the features that you want to accomplish except for the text. I never touched the text stuff yet but I should be able to edit it if I looked at the code. With both of our skills we could probably team up and get a awesome editor going. I already have most of the stuff developed for a advanced editor but it's spread over multiple test programs that I just need to combine into one program.

I downloaded your 7th saga editor but it gives me the error:
"Could not find the main class. Program will exit."

And yes, I did try to run the .jar in the executable folder.

For the blue blinking that doesn't work for the town of Patrof I don't think he can actually join your party. Can that apprentice join your party? It should blink blue for only when a apprentice can join your party. If I'm am wrong then I can definitely fix it but I think that might be right if he doesn't join your party. I thought it would be cool for it to be a item that activates the blue blinking feature. I was even thinking of making a side quest to get the item. I also have weapons/armor that give double gold, double exp, double attack, % increase or decrease of any stat. I also created extra space to have more than 3 weapons/armors like in final fantasy 3.
 
With my hack that removed the graphics compression I freed up over half of the ram. That ram was only used for decompressed graphics. There is more than enough free ram now for anything we can think of. Image what we can do with that much unused ram. Open that 7th saga decompressed hack in a debugger and look at how much free ram there is now. It's amazing! Plus all levels load faster since there is no time spent decompressing graphics.

Another neat feature that I can create is doubling the vram for 7th saga. The snes only has 64k of vram but byuu made his higan snes emulator capable of accessing the full 128kb vram that the snes CPU was capable of. I already added 128kb vram to mmx1 and it works perfectly. Image how good any snes rpg would look with double the vram for graphics. That is the best unused feature. I'm the only person that I know of that made a snes game use the full 128kb vram. That 128kb vram mmx hack that I made should be posted above with my other stuff. It also has a higan save state vram viewer that shows the 128kb vram image data. Everybody should check that out. I'm sure most of you have heard about the new SUPER NT that is coming out. It should have support for 128kb of vram if not it should be easy for someone to add that feature to it. The snes CPU is designed for 128kb vram. Nintendo just put a cheaper smaller 64kb vram in it to save money. Hopefully the creators of the SUPER NT add the support for 128kb vram. I have contacted them about it but not sure if they will add it or not. Hopefully they do or someone does.

Red X I'm curious. What do you think about mystic arks battle system compared to 7th sagas? 7th saga has mode 7 and uses sprites for the enemies and mystic ark does not have mode 7 and uses background #1 for the enemies in battle. I'm actually considering removing mode 7 from battles in 7th saga so I can use background #1 for the enemy sprites. This would allow for a lot of new things like more enemies in battle, more people in your party, and bigger enemies like some of the bosses from phantasy star for the genesis.

Is there anybody out there that does great sprite work that likes 7th saga?
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: IrohDW on December 29, 2017, 10:17:29 pm
I looked into the blue light patch further and discovered that in addition to not having the blue light for the apprentice at Patrof, towns will have the blue light even after you defeat all of the apprentices within. Whether these things should happen or not is a design decision that romhackers may disagree on depending on their preferences, but I feel that the patch is fine as it is.

After further testing, I found that the slowdown effect only happens some of the time, and it isn't dependent on the emulator used. From the player's perspective, Whether the slowdown happens or not seems random.

I'm not sure what is causing the issue with my 7th Saga Editor not running, I downloaded both the Java and Kotlin versions of the executable and they both ran fine. I see two possibilities for why it wouldn't work for you:

1. It could be that you haven't installed java on your computer or need to update it.
2. It could have something to do with how you are running it. Are you double clicking on the executable or are you using the command line command java -jar .\7th-Saga-Editor.jar

If you can't run it directly, it is also possible to download the code and open it in the Intellij Idea editor. It has Git support, which makes it easy for many people to work together on the same project.

Regardless of the cause I would like to find a way for you to run it because I am interested in seeing what you think about its features. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

I have programmed in C++, but I have never made a GUI using QT. I've actually been planning on learning it for some time, but never got around to doing it. I should have no trouble learning it due to my experience with other GUI frameworks.

Your work on decompressing the graphics is incredible! In addition to making the game run faster and freeing up ram, this will also make it easier to make a graphics editor for the game. Until now I never considered the possibility of adding side quests, or additional equipment slots because it seemed beyond me. Adding another armor slot for accessories with unique abilities and having players acquire them through side quests seems like a great way to improve the game.

For the most part, 7th Saga's text is very easy to understand thanks to Dr. Fail's rom hacking guide on Gamefaqs. However, there are a few characters that are not in the guide. Most of the missing characters are the same symbol and aren't useful. However, there are a few that are complicated because they are used to execute code from within the text. I'm certain that with some help from the romhacking community, the remaining characters can be identified.

I played Mystic Ark once, but I quickly abandoned it when I realized that the game is not a true sequel to the 7th Saga. I'll look into it and get back to you on what I think of it. I've seen some videos on the different types of SNES background modes, but I don't have a good understanding of it yet. Although I am interesting in learning these things.

I like the idea of creating a small community that works on modifying 7th Saga, but I don't know anyone who likes the game and has romhacking skills. I think that we should make the tools necessary to modify the game, and then look for people to help. However, I don't think that people need to like the original game to be interested in assisting us. I believe that releasing my romhack, as well as supplemental patches related to it may generate interest in 7th Saga from the romhacking community.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: justin3009 on December 30, 2017, 01:18:03 am
I haven't played 7th Saga in years but I used to be pretty obsessed with it way back in the day. It's definitely one of my favorite gems on the SNES. I wouldn't mind taking a gander at it's insides sometime.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: mrrichard999 on December 30, 2017, 02:44:55 am
Would sprites from Soul Blazer or Brain Lord be extractable for this also? :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on December 30, 2017, 05:04:20 pm
Red X:
The apprentice at patrof, can he join your party? So the ram addresses for apprentices in towns are 7e:0737-7e076b and these are what I'm using to make the towns blink blue if a apprentice is there. When you kill the apprentice that value doesn't change and that is why the town will still blink blue. There is another ram address that tells the game if the apprentice is dead or alive and I didn't add that address to the new asm code that I wrote. Good news is I found those addresses.
7e:5000 kamil
7e:5020 olvan
7e:5040 esuna
7e:5060 wilme
7e:5080 lux
7e:50a0 valsu
7e:50c0 lejes
0x00 = alive
0x80 = dead

All I need to do is add a check for these addresses and that bug will be fixed. I don't have time today to fix it but I will definitely fix it tomorrow and post the updated patch. You can test out the death bit by putting 0x06 at :073a,:073b,073c that will put lejes at all 3 apprentice locations in the town of zellis. Set lejes death bit 0x80 and he won't appear at any of the locations unset it 0x00 and he will appear at all 3 locations. Should be a simple fix.

I don't think I have java installed so that's probably the problem I'm having with your editor. I'll install it tomorrow and see if I can get it working.

I can teach you QT c++ programming if you want to learn it. I'm not the best at it and I still have a lot to learn with c++ but I know more than enough to get a fully functioning 7th saga editor programmed. And yea we should definitely team up and get some stuff going. After I buy my house I will be able to to a lot of work into this. I'm trying to get my house before this April.

justin3009:
That would be great! :woot!:
I didn't know you liked 7th saga that much. Ever since I first played it as a kid it was one of my favorite snes games. I know it's definitely not one of the best games for the snes but I definitely liked it a lot. It has flaws but it has a great foundation to become one of the best snes games. I always thought the developers could have done more with it. Seems like they just wanted to push the game out quick. It you, Red X, and I worked on this game we could really make some huge improvements to it.

mrrichard999:
Yes, any sprites from any game can be added to 7th saga. I have all of the data figured out to be able to do it and I can program the tools for it as well. I just need to put all of my tools into one program. Now there are limits to the size of sprites that you can add. With the enemies you are limited to 12 32x32 tiles and each party member is limited to 4 32x32 tiles. In mystic ark how the use the background #1 for enemy sprites the enemy tile have a limit of 16 32x32 tiles. This is another reason why I would like to remove mode 7 from battles in 7th saga and have it to where background #1 is used for enemy sprites like in mystic ark. There are bosses that are in mystic ark that are 16 32x32 tiles and you will never be able to put those in 7th saga unless mode 7 is removed. I will eventually remove the mode 7 to test things out and see how the gameplay is but that is going to take some time before it's done. I have some work done with that hack already and I did remove mode 7 but the programming is not perfect yet. I still need to gather all of the battle system asm codes and rebuild the entire battle systems engine for it to be perfect instead of a half a$$ job.

I'm off to work I'll post some more stuff tomorrow night with the updated blue blinking patch. Once all of the bugs are worked out I'll upload it to romhack.net.




Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: mrrichard999 on December 31, 2017, 06:52:44 am
I always thought a great idea for a hack on this game would be where it takes place before the time where you go into the past and play in that time line where it is unaltered. Also with how it uses some references to Brain Lord, maybe even use some of the GFX from that to recreate some of those levels somewhat.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: IrohDW on December 31, 2017, 12:13:05 pm
John:
The apprentice at Patrof does not join your party. The game forces you to fight and permanently kill them in order to obtain the Star Rune. When I mentioned how the apprentice at Patrof does not trigger the blue light, and a defeated apprentice does, I did not mean to suggest that these events are bugs. I thought I should mention it because there are advantages and disadvantages with either choice to these scenarios, therefore I thought it might be best to allow the patch to be easily modified to support all options so that each romhacker who downloads the patch can choose which way they want to implement it.

Personally, I am happy that the patch exists at all. I am grateful that you took one of my oldest ideas for how to improve the game and made it a reality. I think the current patch handles these scenerios fine as it is. The Patrof apprentice being there is known to anyone who has played the game before. Having that apprentice make the town flash blue would hide whether any other apprentices are there. This makes the blue light lose any meaning until the Star Rune is obtained, which creates a gameplay inconsistency. However, not activating the blue light means that the crystal ball doesn't always tell the player if a fellow apprentice is in a town, which creates a logical inconsistency. I feel that gameplay consistency is more important than logical consistency. It is for this reason that I prefer the patch as it is. Whether defeated apprentices should activate the blue light depends on whether the player wants to know which towns have apprentices at all, or whether the player wants to know which towns have apprentices they can interact with. Although I have a slight preference towards having defeated apprentices activate the blue light, I am uncertain which method is actually best. What do you think about this?


Justin3009:
I am glad to hear of your interest in the 7th Saga. I have always been impressed with your Megaman X3 Zero Project, and still look forward to its final release. If there is any particular aspect of how 7th Saga works that you would like to know more about, let me know.

There two general purpose resources that may be useful to you.

TAS 7th Saga Page: http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/SNES/7thSaga.html
This resource shows many ram addresses and math formulas that the game uses for its battle mechanics.

Dr. Fail's ROM Data Guide: https://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/563501-the-7th-saga/faqs/36046
This resource shows the location and contents of many of the tables in the game.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: justin3009 on December 31, 2017, 01:55:29 pm
I wouldn't mind getting together in a message or something and brainstorming ideas to improve, enhance or expand the game or something. That's more my forte when it comes to these kinds of things.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on January 02, 2018, 07:38:49 am
Red X:
I think the apprentice at Patrof that has the rune but doesn't join your party shouldn't make the town blink blue just because I think the blue blinking should be for apprentices that can join your party. I also think the apprentices that are killed should not make the town blink blue. I have fixed the towns blinking blue for dead apprentices. The towns will no longer bling blue if they have been killed. The new updated patch is posted below. Just need to test it to see if there is any other bugs.

I was able to test out your editor. All I had to do was install java and it worked. The editor looks good! It edits everything or almost everything that is in dr fails guide. I also have something similar that I have written in QT.

I tried to find my test editor that displays all of the town and dungeon graphics but I lost it inside one of my hard drives. I'll probably write another one soon with some extra stuff added. I do have a editor with a paint system that can decompress and edit 7th sagas graphics then compress the graphics back into 7th saga using the same compression format. All of my editors were just for testing and developing my skills. Now I just need put them all together and add a tile editor for maps. I really need to redo my decompressed graphics patch before I start building my editor. I'm not really happy with the patch I can write it better and I will.

justin3009:
I would definitely like to hear your ideas that you come up with. I think if the 3 of us work to improve 7th saga we could really improve the gameplay a lot. The 3 of us can handle the programming but I think it would be cool if some talented spriters would jump on board we could definitely bring their sprites to life. I have never played with any type of music hacking and I'm not even sure how to write a music editor but that is something that we would also need to figure out. I can do some sprite work but the music is out of my league right now. What improvements do you think could help 7th saga?

To all:
I have good news. I have created 3 new patches and I figured out how to upload images from my phone.

Patch #1
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ol5642gzjkrt0a2/7th_saga_blue_blinking_beta_v0.2.rar

This patch fixes the bug for the blue blinking towns when the apprentices are dead. It also has a temporary workaround for the slowdown in menus caused by poor programming by the original programmers. In the menus you usually have up to 6 items that you can view at once but I have changed it to 4 and now there doesn't appear to be any slowdown in menus. I will eventually rewrite the asm code for the menus but this will have to do for now. I think it's a lot better like this than to have that slowdown.
(http://i.imgur.com/xhscF6d.jpg)

If you want to change the menus back to having 6 items here is the data to change it back.
C4:6fE8 0x04 change to 0x06 //item menu
C4:9926 0x04 change to 0x06 //windrune menu
C4:C11C 0x04 change to 0x06 //magic menu

Patch #2
https://www.mediafire.com/file/oxsm2i8a94yc962/Elnard_graphics.rar
This patch uses my beta decompressed graphics patch to add
the uncensored Elnard graphics back into 7th saga. You must apply both patches for it to work. Here is a pic of the graphics that were added back into 7th saga.
(http://i.imgur.com/W7oYqbN.jpg)

Patch #3
https://www.mediafire.com/file/8jd60g21lnjf5f5/7th_saga_G.Slime.rar
This patch adds the monster green slime from mystic ark into 7th saga. The green slime has all of its own data and ai. And all other enemies are still in the game. The green slime uses the empty hex value of 0x01 for its data. This patch also needs my beta graphics decompression patch for it to work. It will not work without applying that patch first.
(http://i.imgur.com/0TsJpZX.jpg)

All of these new patches are password protected. The password that I always use is:   romhacking.net
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: 4ph on January 02, 2018, 01:06:32 pm
This patch uses my beta decompressed graphics patch to add
the uncensored Elnard graphics back into 7th saga. You must apply both patches for it to work. Here is a pic of the graphics that were added back into 7th saga.
(http://i.imgur.com/W7oYqbN.jpg)

For this beginning of year you make a happy person to have the uncensored version of "Elnard"!  :thumbsup:
Thank you so much!!
Regards,
4PH.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: slidelljohn on January 02, 2018, 03:52:35 pm
You're welcome!  I have some more stuff coming soon.

I still need to redo my decompressed gfx patch and when I do I will upload both patches to romhacking.net. I have considered translating elnard to English. I could do all of the programming but I can't translate jap to eng.  I could use google translator but some of the translation wouldn't be perfect. If I gather all of the Japanese scripts for elnard is there anybody on here that can translate them for me to English? I'll do all of the programming if someone can translate it for me.
Title: Re: Wip projects for mmx and 7th saga
Post by: IrohDW on January 02, 2018, 11:12:45 pm
That is some great progress. Right now I am working on some bug fixes for my 7th Saga romhack and adding some features to my editor. Once I am finished, I intend to release what I've got and see what people think of it. I look forward to working together with you guys soon.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 03, 2018, 05:51:36 pm
I updated this project page today. I have decided to change this wip page from mmx and 7th saga to just a wip page for 7th saga. I still plan to work on mmx and create new things for it. I changed it because I didn't want to clutter up this page with 2 different games.

That is some great progress. Right now I am working on some bug fixes for my 7th Saga romhack and adding some features to my editor. Once I am finished, I intend to release what I've got and see what people think of it. I look forward to working together with you guys soon.

I look forward to working with y'all as well.

 I am currently putting together all of my documents for 7th saga and then I'll put together a editor for the maps. I'm also going to have my decompression patch remade sometime in the next few weeks.

The next patch that I will release will have ether a new town or a new dungeon. I already have 7th saga documented to be able to do this and I should have a patch out for it sometime next week. I might even make a little side quest to get a item that will cause the towns to blink blue for the apprentices.

Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 11, 2018, 04:52:49 pm
Here is a map viewer for 7th saga. It still needs a lot of work but I figured I would release the early version for everyone to look at. After I optimize it I will have it load more stuff. Probably won't be able to do any more work on it till next week but hopefully soon I'll have it to where we can edit and save new towns and dungeons. It's just a matter of time till we have a fully functioning 7th saga editor.
(http://i.imgur.com/X0otNhU.jpg)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/hhlrodtdpcq2jks/7th_saga_map_viewer.rar

Not sure how fast it will be on everyone's computer but it works really good on mine. It loads the images faster than I thought it would because the code isn't fully optimized yet. I tried my best to fit it on a 1080 screen for everybody to be able to see everything. Let me know how it works.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on January 13, 2018, 01:35:20 pm
I tried running the map viewer, but I got the following error:

This application failed to start because it could not find or load the Qt platform plugin "windows" in "".
Reinstalling the application may fix this problem


By the way, have you considered using a version control system such as Git for your editor? It makes working on projects with multiple people a lot easier. Instead of needing to create a new mediafire download every time you make a change to the code, all you have to do is put your project on a Git account and use the Git push, commit, and add commands and your project will be updated automatically.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 13, 2018, 05:26:53 pm
4ph reported the bug this morning and I was able to fix it I just didn't have time to post the fix for it. Here is the fix:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/67yevswde3tcch3/platforms.rar

After you unzip this file just put the whole folder in the same location as the .exe. All it was missing was a .dll but it has to be inside of that platforms folder. All of the other .dll's are in the correct location it was just that one dll that needs to be in that folder. I build my test programs with QT c++ and since I had QT installed on my computer it was working for me because my pc had that file already with the .dll. Let us know if it works and what you think about it.

And yes I could use git but right now I'm just trying to get a basic foundation of the editor built before I post the source. The editor will definitely be open source once it's up and running. You are more than welcome to have the most recent source if you want me to pm it to you but there is a lot of testing going on for the editor so the source code looks like a complete mess.

If anyone has any speed issues when changing maps they should let me know so I can get it working perfectly. I have a lot more stuff to add but I want zero slowdowns. It works great on my pc with zero slowdown but it might not work as good for others.

I have never really used a level editor before so if anyone has any recommendations on what the editor should have they should let me know so I can make the best user interface possible for future developers. Screen shots of other editors or examples of other editors features that everyone would like to see should be posted on here. I want to build a great editor for everyone to use so the more ideas that everyone can give me the better.

With the next update this coming week I'll have it load some more maps and I'll have it load all of the smaller tile sets that make up the maps. It uses 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, and 128x128 tile sets for the screens. After I get all the next update up and running with no slowdowns I'll probably start populating the maps with all of the people, doors, and items. Once all of the maps and tile sets data is fully viewable I'll work on the enemy and character data. I won't have it actually edit anything until I get everything viewable first because I need to know exactly how I want the editor to rip apart the rom apart and put it back together. Also I already have a fully working graphics decompressor/compressor working but this editor will probably use my graphics decompressed patch because of the extra features it adds. There really is no need for graphics compression on any snes game anymore.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: mrrichard999 on January 15, 2018, 12:22:08 pm
Hmm, I can see a possibility for bonus dungeons or boss rush areas :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Sanedan56 on January 15, 2018, 05:43:20 pm
This was on my list of games that I had planned to hack. I would be more than happy to help you with this if you
would like.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on January 15, 2018, 10:00:52 pm
Everything about this looks awesome and this is one of my favorite games too! Though I'm not sure how I feel about looking at Wilme's ass crack for an entire game.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 16, 2018, 04:38:43 pm
mrrichard999:
Yes definitely a possibility. There is some extra room in the existing maps plus the data is easy enough to edit to create whole new maps.

Sanedan56:
Anybody is more than welcome to help. The more ideas the better for me improving 7th saga. What kind of hacking skills do you have? Can you do any c++? I'm using QT creator for the editor.

Special:
Thanks! Always glad to see that other people appreciate 7th saga. It really is a better game than what some people say about it. It was definitely not one of the best rpg's on the snes but it was always one of my favorites. I don't really like elnards version of the graphics but I'll probably include them to give people the option for them to use them if they want to.

Here is a pic showing all of the tiles sets that are loaded now.
I'm not really sure how I want to set up the tile sets for editing but I'm thinking about cutting each set down in half or at least the 4 big tile sets. I still need to optimize the code for loading all of the pixels because it's still not as fast as I want it to be. The 63 that is in the line edit is the milliseconds it takes on average for the tile sets to load when changing maps and that is on my fast pc. On my slower pc it takes about 120 milliseconds. I can definitely cut that time down a lot and I'm going to try to get it around 16 milliseconds. I have 3 different things to do to optimize the code but it's going to take a complete rewrite of the algorithms to get it loading faster. I'm going to try to get this part of the editor done by Thursday if I can. Once these algorithms are optimized they can easily be transferred over to create new editors for other snes games. I'll probably end up creating tutorials on how they work so they can be recycled to other future projects.
(http://i.imgur.com/fSc8CYt.jpg)

I really need some good ideas on how to set everything up for the ui in the 7th saga editor. What snes editors have the best user interface for editing the games? What snes editors have the best functions for editing the tile sets?
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on January 16, 2018, 05:02:38 pm
Temporal Flux for Chrono Trigger is probably one of the best editors and GUI's I've seen overall for any kind of editor. I'd take a look at that one.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 16, 2018, 05:24:20 pm
Awesome thanks! I'll definitely look at it. I need all of the ideas I can get because I have never really used a snes level editor before. I'll probably end up downloading a bunch of them so I can get a lot of ideas on how I can go about designing this one.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on January 16, 2018, 05:26:47 pm
@slidelljohn

I think it's such an underrated game, I play it regularly, and with so many team combination the reply value is very high, solo challenges are also fun to do. Hard as balls though, it blows my mind that on my cart of 7th Saga, there's still a save on it from back when I was a young kid, and at the very end of the game as a solo Wilme, I don't think I have the patience anymore to play it on anything but an emulator nowadays, because you know, turboing though random battles, save checkpoints, and even save scumming those RNG level ups. I wish more games were as hard as this honestly.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 16, 2018, 06:01:35 pm
Definitely underrated but I do understand why. Hopefully with this editor, these new updates to the game engine, and increasing the difficulty by adding new strategy to the battles people would appreciate it more. This is definitely one snes game that would see some big improvements through a editor and these new features. I like 7th saga a lot and I think it will always have a high replay value and with all of this new stuff the replay value will be even higher.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: KingMike on January 17, 2018, 02:41:03 am
I don't know if 7th Saga was the right kind of challenge. I don't think you should have to grind just to prevent RNG from killing your party in one turn any time it feels like it (yes, fully healed to dead in one shot), which is how the game felt to me (at least the English version).
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 17, 2018, 04:47:23 am
I actually didn't mind the grinding but it could definitely use a lot more strategy inside of the battle system instead of just gaining levels to be able to beat the enemies. When I recreate my version of the game I do plan on making it harder than what it is now but it will be a more balanced and strategic game. It will definitely have less fully healed to dead in one shot. What do you think can be changed or added to improve gameplay and strategy within the battle system?
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: mrrichard999 on January 17, 2018, 10:49:24 pm
Is it possible to add lower case letters on the name entry screen? Also would there be enough room in the ROM to even add an 8th... playable character? :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 18, 2018, 12:36:44 am
Yes both of those are possible to do through assembly hacking and there is plenty of room in the rom to do it. I never thought about having the lowercase letters for the name selection screen I might consider creating a patch for that. You can definitely add a lot more than 7 characters but that will also take some assembly hacking. That one I have considered doing. I plan on changing so much stuff there probably isn't going to be 7 characters or 7 runes or 7 of whatever else that there is in the game so the 7th in 7th saga might become pointless to have in the game title. Something I may or may not do is change the name of the game. I have thought about changing the name to Mystic Saga. That would make it a combination of Mystic Ark and 7th Saga.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: mrrichard999 on January 18, 2018, 02:31:23 am
A patch is in queue for the large font in the game to be a lot more easier to read. I swapped out the font for the one used in Illusion of Gaia so the dialogue wouldn't be so eye straining. - https://www.romhacking.net/fonts/180/ (https://www.romhacking.net/fonts/180/)

(https://i.imgur.com/uxNGdjp.png)

I also was messing around with the smaller font too but all I could find in regards to font with the shadow that isn't real bad was one from Flashback. I gotta see if I can find something more suitable to the game that has shading with it.

(https://i.imgur.com/RPr93nW.png)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 18, 2018, 01:03:17 pm
mrrichard999:
Interesting, I'll definitely check out your patch when you finish it. I do plan on adding a font and text editor to the editor I'm working on.

Here is another small update on the map viewer. I optimized the algorithm for loading the map and tile sets by about 4-5 times faster. On my good pc it's all loading at about 0-31 milliseconds and on my average pc it's loading at about 11-37 milliseconds. I still have 2 other things to do to optimize the code for loading the map and tile sets faster.

1. I'm creating a qimage then converting it to a qpixmap and that eats up a lot of time. Instead of creating a qimage I'm going to write the image data as a windows bitmap image then load that as a qpixmap. That will definitely speed things up a little bit.

2. I will make the map and tile set viewers about half the current size and that should also add a nice speed boost.

Everything is fast enough right now but I want the code to be a little faster because I might end up adding extra background layer, animations, and I want very fast updating of the tiles when things are edited. I added all of the town and dungeon maps but it's still not loading all of the correct sizes for the maps and tile sets yet. The maps do have a x/y size in the rom but the tile sets do not have a set size. I think the tile sets just have a maximum size of 0x7FF tiles per set but all of them are not that big.

(http://i.imgur.com/mQGqcvF.jpg)

Here is a download for the newest update for the editor. This update the screen is larger than 1080p but after this update I should have everything to where it fits inside of a 1080p screen. I think the only main map left to add is the world map. There is a milliseconds timer to test how fast it loads the tile sets on everyones pc but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1zufhh8pp98m239/7th+saga+test+map+viewer.rar
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: jink640 on January 18, 2018, 11:04:01 pm
Nice!
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: mrrichard999 on January 18, 2018, 11:11:15 pm
This forum motivated me to make a patch fixing the lower case errors in the shops, character intros where Lemele meets each one, and start menu screens. Also it makes use of the unused icons in the game to symbolize gems, bottles, runes, and keys. This should help make item navigation easier. :)

It's in the queue now but hopefully should be readily available soon.

Also i didn't realize the Final Fantasy 6 font had shading and it works out real nice here! When your playing a game like this where you are looking at font for the most part it is a lot better on the eyes than the thin lettering that is used by default.

Here are some samples
(https://i.imgur.com/e9NBIZE.png)(https://i.imgur.com/uqXNm8b.png)(https://i.imgur.com/zI9McmX.png)(https://i.imgur.com/vuQtyT1.png)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 19, 2018, 05:15:05 pm
Can you post before and after pictures so we can compare the original and new font? I actually like the original font but I don't like the spacing of the letters for some of the words. If I end up changing the menus from sprites to a background layer then I'll probably incorporate a vwf to fix the spacing between letters.

Here is a pic showing the original battle menu.
(http://i.imgur.com/umZcVzF.jpg)

And here is a pic showing a mockup of what I would like the vwf to look like.
(http://i.imgur.com/ntJlAYh.jpg)
It's not a huge difference but I think it does slightly improve the looks of the text if a vwf was incorporated.

Even though I have seen them in the decompressed graphics I didn't realize the icons for gems, bottles, runes, and keys were unused. I'm definitely interested in seeing some pics using these. I know how to add extra spaces for the text so if that's something that could help for adding the unused icons let me know.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on January 19, 2018, 05:52:04 pm
It's actually very easy to VWF the sprites they use now, the only problem is that all the letters have that stupid BG on them as well so it's a no-go unless the BG of the letters gets drawn as a separate sprite layer.. which is more lag so that's a no go.

We'd definitely have to go the way of dropping Mode 7 entirely and implementing everything as BG3 for it to work with far less lag and be more efficient. Though it does remove the cool effect of the battle backgrounds..which would also mean there'd have to be custom backgrounds and tile maps entirely set for every battle screen instance which is a lot of work.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 19, 2018, 08:35:43 pm
The mode 7 is a cool effect but I think dropping it from battles would allow for some big improvements. I'm not sure yet about dropping it from the world map though. Definitely would need some new battle backgrounds and I have found a few backgrounds that I like from snes treasures of rudras. I like some but not all of these backgrounds
(http://i.imgur.com/7G7Kqlp.jpg)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: mrrichard999 on January 19, 2018, 09:04:49 pm
Can you post before and after pictures so we can compare the original and new font?

Sure!

Here are some comparison shots

(https://i.imgur.com/uxNGdjp.png)(https://i.imgur.com/HO9iWuj.png)(https://i.imgur.com/30heknQ.png)(https://i.imgur.com/SMLL9tW.png)(https://i.imgur.com/L2TCQlX.png)(https://i.imgur.com/QPt4xXw.png)

Here are photos with the small font

(https://i.imgur.com/gX9AdHc.png)(https://i.imgur.com/bLIKPPe.png)(https://i.imgur.com/iAWICVT.png)(https://i.imgur.com/DvHgxm1.png)(http://i.imgur.com/umZcVzF.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/Dw401Tr.png)

I think it's mainly because the letters aren't behind a flat color block like in most games but it's much easier on the eyes in my opinion.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 20, 2018, 08:01:25 pm
For the images that show the stats values I think the ff3 numbers look better than 7th sagas numbers. The 7th sagas letters I think look better than ff3's letters but that's probably because of the background color of the font. Any chance you can make a image showing the stats with the ff3 font without that background color on them?
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: pianohombre on February 09, 2018, 05:43:24 am
mrrichard, you may want to delete some of your messages or change your e-mail settings on this forum. I tried sending you a personal message (about a rom hack translation we were working on) and got an error. Thanks.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on December 29, 2018, 04:07:17 pm
I created a patch for choosing lower case letters when you select your name in 7th saga. There is no readme with the patch just use a original headerless 7th saga rom. You can ether press the new symbol in the lower right hand corner or press the y button on your controller to change upper/lower case. About a year ago mrrichard999 ask if it was possible to create a lower case hack and I liked the idea so I finally decided to write the code for it. I still need to optimize the new asm code that I wrote so its a little smaller. The patch should work without any bugs but I still haven't played the whole game using the patch.

original
(https://i.imgur.com/5Sq6q7G.png)

new
(https://i.imgur.com/wsxMWp0.png)

patch
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9l66cuceufyzo3h/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_lower_case_letters.ips/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/9l66cuceufyzo3h/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_lower_case_letters.ips/file)


Over the next couple of days I will be releasing a couple other small patches for 7th saga that I have been working on. I still don't have any updates for my 7th saga level editor but the project is still slowly being worked on.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on December 30, 2018, 12:35:36 am
Ah yes, John the Alien. Glad to see this game is still getting worked on.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on December 30, 2018, 07:05:48 am
Just a mini heads-up if wanted.

It looks like the people you name (And even join you) can have up to 7 letters a name (Maybe even more if moved just a tad over in RAM).

7E:04D8 is where your name begins.
7E:04E0 is where your partner's name begins.

It follows this same pattern in SRAM as well.

It only gets limited to five probably due to text restraints but it looks like F7 is the 'end byte' for a character name in RAM. Using that, you can technically have 7 letters for a name.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on December 30, 2018, 03:38:44 pm
Yes I believe it is possible to add 7 letters or maybe more. I was thinking about adding extra letters but I wasn’t sure if I wanted to. I guess maybe I should try to add the extra letters because 5 letters really isn’t enough. I’ll look into adding the extra letters later today. F7 is the end byte for all text. I actually added one extra letter to the experience points in my level 99 hack. The experience points originally uses 7 letters but I made it to where it uses 8. The level 99 hack I might release as my next patch but I’m still deciding if I should use the extra 8th letter for up to 0xffffff (16777215) experience points or leave the cap at 0x98967f (9999999) experience points. If I leave the experience at 7 letters I’ll have to set new values for all level ups so you can reach level 99 or if I use 8 letters I might only have to add level 81-99 but having 8 letters caps experience at 16777215 which is a odd number to have. What do y’all think? Leave experience cap at 9999999 and have all new values for level ups or set the new cap at 16777215 so all or most original level up values stay the same. I'm kinda leaning towards keeping the cap at 9999999 and set new values for the level ups.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on December 30, 2018, 03:47:41 pm
I would keep the cap at 9,999,999. There is honestly no reason to even go above that if proper number balancing is done.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on December 30, 2018, 05:51:41 pm
That’s what I was thinking too. I’ll keep it at 9,999,999. The hardest part about making the level 99 hack complete is going to be figuring out the proper balance for how much experience to gain for each level. I’m probably going to have to write a small editor to edit the experience points needed to gain each level. Maybe I’ll also include a enemy stat editor just in case the experience gain from enemies needs to be edited as well for a good balance.

What does everyone think about how you acquire gold from the amount of experience points you get. I really don’t like that you get gold like that from enemies. I think gold should have its own value in the enemy stat file.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on January 01, 2019, 07:14:29 am
Gold doesn't have it's own stat there? That's.. interesting actually I had no idea.

I'd recommend splitting that for sure. Pretty much every game does that so you can do specifics all around.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 01, 2019, 07:07:15 pm
I actually had that backwards, its experience that doesn't have its on stat data and gold does. :D

In Dr. Fail's text document for 7th saga it says "Experience = 2.201 * Gold" but this
appears to be incorrect. The number that I came up with is 2.203112840466926. So it
should be Experience = 2.203112840466926 * Gold. I still haven't checked if its rounding
the decimal after you multiply or if it just drops the decimal but I'll figure it out before I make
the patch for it.

This will be a easy hack to make but I'm going to have to temporarily relocate the enemy stat table file.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: justin3009 on January 02, 2019, 09:39:30 am
There's plenty of room to move things so I'd go for it and just keep it out somewhere for further expansion if needed.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 07, 2019, 08:28:46 pm
I have the patch for the 7 letters in your name ready:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/de6tockk3ncg52q/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_7_letters.ips/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/de6tockk3ncg52q/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_7_letters.ips/file)

(https://i.imgur.com/Bd0xZBS.png)

I haven't had the chance to finish the other patches but I am curranty working on them while I have the time.
These patches might or might not be compatible with each other but I plan on releasing my docs for the patches
plus the patches to romhacking.net so everyone will be able to have the source code for the patches just in case
someone needs to move some data around. In the near future I plan on combining all of my 7th saga improvement
hacks in one but this wont happen until I finish most of my docs for 7th saga. When I do create my all in one
7th saga improvement hack I'm going to call the rom 7th Saga, The(U)[!][J].sfc.
And no the [J] doesn't mean Japan :crazy:

One other thing that I plan on making is a digital 7th saga players guide. I'm not sure if I'm going to make it in
html or a .exe but I'm leaning towards a .exe. This will be a long time before this is ready. Probably after I release
the 7th saga editor. But here is something I was thinking about having for the enemies in the guide:

(https://i.imgur.com/9EbLWbc.png)

I modified some tile sets and came up with my own tiles for the edge of the menu and the bars for the stats. These
tiles may or may not be used inside of 7th saga when/if I create a new in game menu for viewing your stats, items, and
magic. Some other stuff that I'm working on like this I'm going to also use to make new custom 7th saga posters to add to
my super nintendo collection. I already have a complete in box 7th saga and elnard, the 2 7th saga players guides, the 2
7th saga mangas, 7th saga nintendo power card, elnard phone card, and one of the 2 enix books that has a small amount of 7th
saga stuff in it. So yea I need more posters for my 7th saga collection. :o

I would like to complete my 7th saga collection. Can anybody locate this enix guide book for me? Its almost imposible to
find. I have only found one but I was too late in being able to buy it. Image for the enix guide book is large so I made a url.
https://imgur.com/517y59l (https://imgur.com/517y59l)

Also I'm looking to get all magazines that have 7th saga ads in them. Does anyone know what magazines have the 7th saga ads in them?


Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on January 08, 2019, 12:17:51 am
A digital guide made as an .exe? That's ridiculous, I can hear the AV alarms ringing just thinking about this, it should be made in PDF format.

Does J stand for John?
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 08, 2019, 12:30:45 am
Yes J is for John. A .exe does sound ridiculous for a digital guide but I want the digital guide to be able to extract the graphics and data out of the rom. I don’t think a pdf can extract data from a rom.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on January 08, 2019, 12:49:54 am
Ah, well to do something like that then yeah a PDF would be out, I had a different image in mind for when you said "digital 7th saga players guide".
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on January 08, 2019, 01:07:13 am
I still have a lot to think about with the digital guide. Who knows I may decide to just use a pdf. It’s a lot to think about and I don’t really have the time to work on the digital guide right now but it is something that I would eventually like to make even if the digital guide doesn’t actually load the data from a rom.

Here is a patch for increasing the level limit from 80 to 99:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4u506riizu34l15/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_level_99.ips/file (http://www.mediafire.com/file/4u506riizu34l15/7th_Saga%252C_The_%2528U%2529_%255B%2521%255D_level_99.ips/file)

(https://i.imgur.com/NXvsprm.png)

New level data can be found in the rom at c0:ed00-c0:ee2b. Level up at 81-99 still needs to have a balanced level up value.
I'll see about writing a small program to easily be able to edit these values. If you want to easily test this go into a battle
and change ram address at 7e:1dc2 to 0x4e which is your current level. And also change 7e:1dd5-7e:1dd7 to 0xff, 0xff, 0xff which is your experience points. Doing this should get you up to level 99.

Some of you may or may not know about the zero damage bug in 7th saga. If you start a new game and use kamil, go fight a hermit and defend and odds are you will get zero damage. Now if you get a level up and defend and the hermits attack you will get 1 damage. How does it go from zero damage on level 1 to 1 damage on level 2. Well when it calculates the damage if the damage that you are supposed to receive is zero you will get zero damage and if the damage that you are supposed to receive is less than zero you will get 1 damage. There is 2 ways to fix this bug. Ether have it to where you can never receive zero damage or if damage that you are supposed to receive is less than zero, instead of it making you get 1 damage make it give you zero damage. For fix #2 you can just change this:
$C2/7C2C A9 01 00    LDA #$0001

to this:
$C2/7C2C A9 00 00    LDA #$0000

That will make damage less than zero, zero. To do fix #1 I would have to do a little asm work to fix it but not much. What do
you all think would be the best option to fix this bug, fix #1 or fix #2? I'm leaning towards if damage is ever zero or less it should always be 1. I don't think there should ever be zero damage but I would like to here other peoples opinions on this.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Zorlac on January 17, 2019, 04:16:46 pm
Would love to see a super accurate re-translation to Elnard. Anyone know if this is being worked on??? Fond memories of The 7th Saga when I was in high school...the game seriously kicked my arse lol

Besides the Encyclopedia of Adventure, what other merchandise was released for this game?

I found a few interesting things!

http://sevensongs.ocremix.org

https://mangahelpers.com/m/seventh-saga

https://goldenagerpgs.com/sfc_snes-guide-books/elnard-the-encyclopedia-of-adventure/
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: KingMike on January 19, 2019, 03:26:56 pm
Also I'm looking to get all magazines that have 7th saga ads in them. Does anyone know what magazines have the 7th saga ads in them?
I can't recall how many ads exactly. But I'd say probably the EGMs, GamePros and whatever from late '93 probably. I know there is a site that has scans of old ("pre-2000") game magazines. But I don't think I can link to it.
You could probably check there.
"Which magazines have 7th Saga ads" is a quite-specific criteria I don't think people have taken note of. :)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: butane bob on January 20, 2019, 04:42:39 pm
the game seriously kicked my arse lol

Yeah the western release was ten times harder than the original Japanese version.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Zorlac on February 01, 2019, 01:31:37 am
So who do we ask on here about interest in starting a proper Elnard translation project?

Also, I would love to see a ROM map, script dump, graphics dump of Elnard and Seventh Saga to compare differences.

Scans and translated manuals/documentation would be nice too.

I would start if I had the tools. Unfortunately I am not a programmer though. But I would be willing to help with other tasks.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on March 19, 2019, 06:08:00 am
@Zorlac
Translating Elnard to english is on the list of things to eventually do. I can do all of the programing I just need to find a translator. I have a 7th saga/elnard graphics viewer that I posted at the beginning of my page. I also have a rom map that I have been slowly working on but it wont be released until its finished which will be awhile. Here is some merchandise that I have for 7th saga/elnard:

These are the 2 manga's and the encyclopedia of adventure guide book.
(https://i.imgur.com/ctgsWpU.png)

This is another book but it is small around 18-20 pages and a phone card.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmYWAGQ.png)

I also have a 7th saga nintendo power card but I dont have a picture of it.


@KingMike
I'm definitely going to have to do a lot of digging. Here are 2 magazine ads that I would like to find:

(https://i.imgur.com/7jro3wn.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/n2E6XeB.png)

I think I have seen 1 other ad somewhere but I cant remember where.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: KingMike on March 19, 2019, 02:10:45 pm
There are Japanese guide books which use the American title?  :o
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Zorlac on March 19, 2019, 04:01:56 pm
Wow! Thanks for sharing!

When you eventually start the translation project, would you be using the orignal Japanese ROM? (sorry for the dumb question). I just like the idea of a purist translation if at all possible.

Its interesting reading the Japanese Wiki page on Elnard using Google Translate. Seems like the game definitely had a religious theme going on.

Let me know if I can do anything to help! :)

March 21, 2019, 07:43:27 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Have you guys seen this?

https://starboy91.blogspot.com/search?q=elnard
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Zorlac on March 28, 2019, 11:43:45 pm
Here is a link to the chiptune OST for the other game the composer Norihiko Yamanuki created:

https://vgmrips.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419

I can definitely hear his style. Pretty damn cool!

Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on March 30, 2019, 01:08:40 am
@KingMike
The 2 mangas comics, yea, that’s strange. I have no idea why they would use the American title for them and not the Japanese title.

@Zorlac
Yes, I will use the original elnard for the translation. Not really sure which other one I would use.  :huh:
I definitely won’t take any 7th saga scripts and incert them into elnard to make the English translation. The actual Japanese would be translated to English. The starboy91 blog was a good read. I learned some new things. I tried to post on that blog but it wouldn’t let me. I would like to know how to reproduce the bug starboy91 talked about in 7th saga when you talk to a npc in a town then talk to another npc in the same town and they say the same thing. starboy91 said that doesn’t happen in elnard only 7th saga. I never knew one of the images(lower left of the 4 images) on the back of 7th saga box was from elnard and not 7th saga. Now I might have to make a new box image.

Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: FlashPV on March 30, 2019, 04:07:01 am
I didn't know so much things were changed for the US release besides the difficulty raise. Now I really hope to see a retranslation.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: KingMike on March 30, 2019, 01:36:18 pm
While you're working Elnard, I would kind of like to see a patch with the 7th Saga script inserted just as a secondary patch.
If that's something you've figured out enough about the game to easily do it.
Just as I've heard existing "restoration" patches weren't quite correct.

Well, without that feature in the US version that makes you watch the title screen every time. That's like 20 seconds wasted. But maybe it's only a huge annoyance when you're save-scumming the Seeds, which maybe you wouldn't need to do without the crazy difficulty.
I'm sure it's because of NoA's mandatory visible "LICENSED BY NINTENDO" text rule (which meant that since JP games were written without stuff, sometimes games needed programming changes in localization to qualify and sometimes it resulted in shit like that happening. :P )
Hey guys did you know 7th Saga is licensed by Nintendo?
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on April 01, 2019, 01:08:42 am
@FlashPV
We will definitely get a translation as long as I can find someone willing to translat the text for me. I can do all of the programming but the only Japanese to English translating I can do is through google which produces poor results. There are a few reasons why I want to translat elnard to English
but the difference in difficulty is one of the main reasons why I want to translat it. I just don’t think I’m going to like the difficultly in elnard. I really liked how hard 7th saga was and when I make a hack of 7th saga it’s going to be way harder than 7th saga. It might sound crazy to make 7th saga harder but my hack is going to add so many new features that are currently not in the the game to add strategy to defeat enemies so it would not make it as repetitive as defend attack or relying on the ruins. Two things that I plan on doing to make 7th saga a little harder is adding active battles like in final fantasy and remove mode 7 from battles. The mode 7 is cool in battles but it is not worth it to have it. The game can easily be so much better with out it. In mystic arc(7th saga 2) there is no mode 7 in battles and all of the enemies are on a background layer and your characters and spells are on the sprite layer, in 7th saga all enemies, your characters and spells are on the sprite layer so that really limits what you can do. If I remove mode 7, battle backgrounds would look better, I could easily double the different amount of enemies in battle, and I think I can add a extra character in battle. I really don’t think it will be to hard to remove mode 7 because 7th sagas enemy/character sprite layer data is formatted the exact same way as mystic arcs enemy background data. You can literally copy and paste 7th saga enemy data to mystic arcs enemy data and vice versa. So yea I think that would do wonders for improving 7th saga. Lol, I guess I got a little carried away with my post be hey, 7th saga is the reason why I signed up for this stuff. :crazy:

@KingMike
Yea, I could also do a patch with the 7th saga scripts as a secondary patch. It’s probably going to be awhile before I get to translating elnard because I have a lot of other things in the works right now but hopefully by the end of the year I could slowly start working on it.

I’m glad you brought up the title screen taking about 20 seconds because I’m going to try and make a patch to be able to skip it by pressing start or some other button. Not being able to skip the title is really annoying so I may try to get that done this week if I get time. If I can get that patch done I may
go ahead and upload it and my other recent patches with the source code for each patch. I really need to start uploading all of my patches for 7th saga so they don’t get lost by a hard drive crash or something else. :D
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: lastdual on April 03, 2019, 09:43:55 am
So this is a petty detail that probably only matters to me, but I've always found it distracting how some of the player characters seem to have overly jagged shadows. Since slidelljohn was kind enough to share that deccompressor patch a while back, I went ahead and smoothed/simplified the shadows. All the PC shadows have been tweaked, though the changes are most noticeable on Kamil and Esuna.

I also touched up Lejes' horns to make him more closely resemble his appearance in the Japanese game, though I left his newer palette intact.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2v3hlrc.gif)

The patch is available here (includes the decompressor):
https://www.mediafire.com/file/r6vdr83103qrmq3/7th_Saga_%5BNewShadowsPlus%5D.zip/file

It's also worth noting that this appears to work fine with Nati's "The New Class" re-balancing hack, though since that hack adds a header, it has to be removed prior to applying this or the decompressor.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on April 03, 2019, 05:55:33 pm
These look really good! What about the other characters? I could compress these for you with 7th saga’s compression algorithm if you want me to. Since there is a few less pixels in the graphics, the compression size might be a little smaller than the original. Even though my decompression patch works I still need to make some changes to it.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: lastdual on April 03, 2019, 07:23:15 pm
Thanks! All the PC shadows were edited, though I just tossed a few examples together for the above image. I wouldn't worry about sending me a compressed version, as I like the faster load times and don't really mind the file size. I might ask for that if I were to post the patch here officially, but I'm not sure that such a minor sprite hack merits it. I've actually made a bunch of touch-up sprite hacks like this ;D

What changes are you planning for your updated decompression patch? I haven't run into any bugs thus far, even when combined with "The New Class."

Also really looking forward to your completed Gradius 3 hack!
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on April 03, 2019, 09:29:07 pm
Some of those jagged shadows do make sense for some characters though, Lejes and his ear things (what are those?) plus his ragged cloak, and Wilme's horns, etc. Esuna and Kamil do seem a bit weird though too.

(https://i.imgur.com/r61tAXg.gif)

Also I'm glad to hear you like 7th Saga hard, that's what makes this game so great, now I don't have to worry that slidelljohn might turn into a baby mode version. The only part that needs fixing balance wise is a certain apprentice fight, just how it can scale out of hand end game wise.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: slidelljohn on April 04, 2019, 07:49:34 am
@lastdual
I think it’s worth posting the patch. I think a patch with my updated decompression patch(hopefully I’ll get it completed this summer) and another one with the graphics compressed.
It is a minor sprite hack but imagine the options we could have if we had a lot of minor hacks like this whether it’s sprites or asm. If you did officially release it I recommend including the source code with it as well. The last few patches that I posted for 7th saga I’m going to officially post on here with the source and my updated decompression patch will be posted with the source as well. I think including source is really important for the future rom hackers who want to learn something new and develop their skills. Did you look at any of the NPC’s and enemies to see if they are worth editing? What other touch ups have you done? Whenever I get my tools and patches completed for the games that I want to modify I’m going to need a lot of sprite and background work done for 7th saga, mmx, and gradius 3. I can do some sprite work but I’m definitely no artist. The sprite work that I like to do is like a chop shop. I like taking parts of different sprites mixing them up and slightly edit them to create something new. I can’t really create anything from scratch. Besides my 8-9 year old incompleted profile image here is some chop shop work I did for mmx.

(http://i.imgur.com/xgwgAag.jpg)

Those are my for my number life point sprites and some sprites that I am considering for my sa-1, 128kb vram hack that I plan on making for mmx. The rest of the sprites are original but I’m missing a few of those. The statue is there just to show where I got the round bubble from. The round bubble was created by me from the square bubble. The only thing I’m not really happy with these new edited sprites is that zero’s sprite for his numbered life points. I tried but I just couldn’t get it to look good. That was the best I could do. Maybe I should make it similar style to x’s icon but as a all red Z. :-\

The decompression hack needs the code to be cleaned up and I may need to do some slight editing to the code because there was a work around that I had to do for romuses ai death assembly code. I also may have missed some pointers to some graphics that I could have missed. I’ll find out if I missed some pointers when I finish fully disassembling 7th sagas asm and data. I’m not sure but I think I may have left the compressed graphics in the rom so if they are still there they need to be removed.

The gradius 3 work that I have done was just so I can learn how to implement fastrom and sa-1 but I am really looking forward to playing it with my added difficulties with no slowdowns. I’m glad there are a couple of people helping with it.

@Special
Lol, they are horns for a demon. When I eventually get to making a full 7th saga rom hack I’m going to increase the difficulty for the player by using more strategy to win battles than by level grinding. A lot of the game needs work but it has a good foundation and potential to be a really good rpg for the snes. I already think it’s a good rpg and it’s one of the games that I like the most on the snes but it does have lots of flaws. I’m really hoping that after I get all of my hacking tools and modifications done to 7th saga that I can get a team of people together to help remake the game into something really special. My 128kb vram mod that I’m also making for it should help do wonders for new backgrounds. Hopefully I can find some talented artists to make new backgrounds and sprites for it.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on April 04, 2019, 10:52:26 am
Yeah I guess they are horns after looking into it a little more.

(https://i.imgur.com/LjYhHKk.jpg)

But then you have images like this one that make them look like flat ears or wings or whatever...

(https://i.imgur.com/ivizZCi.png)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Zorlac on April 04, 2019, 08:46:58 pm
I think レジース Lejes Rimul looks much more like a demon race in the エルナード Elnard manual:

(https://oi278.photobucket.com/albums/kk114/michaeljamesjohnson/IMG_1884.jpg)

The cover seems to do a better job as well:

(https://oi278.photobucket.com/albums/kk114/michaeljamesjohnson/IMG_1885.jpg)
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 09, 2019, 07:54:35 pm
Someone here has shown interest in my 7th Saga Magic and Speed code, which allows the magic and speed stats to go up to 999. I don't have an ips patch, but the source code is in my Dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dom8mg893l87g58/AAB1v-wfbud8uisBe1DqDbYKa?dl=0

I have decided to post a link to the latest version of my 7th Saga 3.0 patch as well as a list of the major ASM changes in it, and how each character plays.

7th Saga 3.0: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2rj1hsy0g5o95qu/7th%20Saga%2B3.0.ips?dl=0

ASM Changes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f015qvwd7mfpq0y/ASM%20Changes.docx?dl=0

Let me know what you guys think of it.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Manamiko on July 09, 2019, 11:11:19 pm

Let me know what you guys think of it.
You are friggin awesome. I am currently playing through on Esuna at lvl 16 in patrof, grinding up.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on July 10, 2019, 12:33:17 am
I always get excited when I see ROM hacks of 7th Saga, but just skimming your doc notes... you've made 7th Saga piss easy, ruins everything I like about this game, even though there are some nice things about it like items sorted by ID's.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 10, 2019, 10:47:53 am
It is only easy if you grind. One of the important changes I made to the game was to greatly reduce the need for grinding in order to progress, especially at the beginning.

There are parts of the game that are difficult for each character, due to their differing weaknesses. Especially at the mid and late game. One thing I didn't mention in those notes is that level 2 attack spells and multi target attack spells have a LOT more spell power, so you will take a lot more damage at certain points in the game. Enemy stats are also very different (and often higher) than in the original game. Some enemies have very high physical attacks that will wreck you if you aren't at a high enough level, or don't have a good team. This is especially true for the apprentice battles. Some matchups are a lot harder than the original, but others are easier.

I've beaten the game many times with each character solo, as well as with partners, so the overall flow of the game is something that is very well understood for me. If you have any specific issues you want to discuss from your experience actually playing my romhack, let me know.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on July 10, 2019, 11:30:50 am
I  disagree with the way you handled it then, it's now just another https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/843/ in a different coat of paint.

-You've removed the Magic & Speed caps from 255 to 999
-Removed any penalties of dying (Gold loss.)
-Stat growths buffed almost 33% higher, stat Seeds are also hugely buffed.
-Character Crits are hugely buffed, some even by x2, (Lux, WTF?)
-Changing the Apprentice numbers is one of the highlights of the US version, Removing an optional Superboss from the game... (Lame.)
-Exp Reduction with partner... (now it's almost impossible to not over grind and make things piss easy.)
-Pretty much all Items/Magic/Runes hugely overpoweringly buffed in some way.

Spirit of the game pretty much killed IMO, can't really comment about Enemy stats because you don't document them, but by seeing what was documented like from above, it doesn't leave me with any hope, like blanket doubled HP across the board type balance...
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 10, 2019, 12:04:10 pm
The magic and speed caps are not a game feature, it is an artificial limit created by storing those stats on 1 byte instead of 2. I don't understand why you would praise the game for this. It is bad game design that really hurts the more magic based characters in the endgame.

The penalty for death leads to changes in player behavior. People will reset or use savestates to prevent losing their money. This is especially important in my romhack, because you need to save as much money as you can to buy seeds at Melenam. If you die in my romhack the penalty is that you lose your time.

The character crits are a big buff to physical attacks, but due to other changes, magic attacks are far more effective in terms of dealing damage in most situations. This buff gives characters more individuality on their physical damage, and gives more uses for it. The reason Lux has such a high crit rate is because, as a robot, he can transform the shape of his hand as he attacks (he mentions this if you talk to him when the game starts). It makes logical sense that he would have a high crit rate considering this. It also fits his gameplay. Lux has the least utility of any character in the game, so the few things he can do, he MUST do well, or he would be useless. The same is true for his abilities. It makes NO SENSE for a robot to be poisoned or have their life drained from them, so I made him immune to these things. It not only makes logical sense, but it makes Lux more unique as a character and prevents him from being crippled by too many debuffs due to his low speed. Although to be fair, Defense 2 causes him far more problems than poison would.

Balancing the apprentice battles is one of the most difficult challenges I have faced in this project. If I allow the original Elnard bonuses, many characters can be killed in 1 hit due to how much more damage magic can do, and how overpowered that bonus was. Certain matchups are still very difficult because of this. Esuna can still 1HKO some characters like Wilme occasionally due to her magic crit ability. Furthermore, to say that the Elnard bonuses are a highlight is going a little far. After a certain point in the game, apprentice battles become virtually impossible.

I'm considering changing the exp reduction with partner, for awhile I had it at 25% and I'm starting to think that would be a better solution to balancing solo runs VS. partner runs. All I have to do to make the game a lot more difficult is lower the EXP gain from enemies. this is not a huge or difficult to solve problem. In fact, even as things are, there are still a few places where I expect players to grind.

I don't know what you mean by almost all items/runes buffed. The only runes that are different are light, moon, and star. Star and Light are buffed, but Moon is nerfed due to the power spell itself being heavily nerfed. The Light rune buff to magic attack as well as defense makes logical sense for what it is, and lets you feel more overpowered before the game takes it away from you. The lore of the runes is that whoever has them is basically invincible, and my changes to them fit that. The items I buffed are minor ones that you normally wouldn't use anyway (such as b fire/ice). Even with those buffs, their use is still situational. Most items haven't been changed, except to make their cost reflect their usefulness.

As for spells, many of the spell buffs also apply when enemies use them against you. For example, attack magic and poison deal a lot more damage to you, enemies use more buffs, debuffs, and higher level spells against you, and Defense2, HP Catcher, and MP Catcher are much more debilitating when used against you than in the original game. You seem to only consider the buffs I gave to the player without also considering other changes that make the game more challenging. To call my romhack another easytype is way off the mark. My version plays and feels very different from the original. It's fine if you don't like that, but let's not pretend that this is simply an easier version of the original game, because it isn't.

Here is a link to a zip that has all of the changes to the game I made in my 7th Saga Editor. This includes changes to items, character data, equipment, monsters, etc. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ehkmdjxwv78yuph/7th%20Saga%2B%20Editor%20Changes.zip?dl=0
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Manamiko on July 10, 2019, 03:10:57 pm
A bad habit of mine, and you are correct that early game transitions pretty well, is grinding that may take away from some of the difficulty, but it certainly doesn't prevent it. I am running Esuna special, and even when in Pell, the despair's fire bird attack was easily dealing 60-70 dmg when cast against me and I was sporting an 85-100 hp pool. Its power stat was just as formidable. Brains and Blue Demons could also give me trouble if I wasn't careful. It isn't "easy" and it is more than the "LOL POWER/BPOWER DEF/ATK faceroll buttons" grind that most are used to. Before you pass judgement , play it through at least somewhat. I am not knocking your view, but I can say first hand that the difficulty does ramp up, you have to pay attention and actually UTILIZE turns, and everything feels refreshing. Imagine the spiders in the dungeon before the patrof apprentice battle where two spiders spawn , and they have a decent chance of popping def 2 on you, poisoning seems to occur more often, each turn zaps 10% hp and if they both hit you without a dodge or def buff up, you're dead. Just try it :3

Edit: Sorry about the off topic john
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 10, 2019, 04:26:49 pm
Esuna is my favorite character to play as due to her high versatility, great magic damage, and magic crits, but she is the most fragile character in the game, and her usefulness goes way down against monsters with high ice res, especially metal enemies. She can often kill her enemies quickly, but if she can't, she can die very quickly.

The greatest danger in the early game is the magic spells, particularly when enemies start using F_Bird/Blizzard1/Thunder1 between Pell and Bone. There is a big difficulty spike in the North Continent because that is when monsters start using level 2 attack spells.

Something to keep in mind is that I grouped monsters into families, and each family has different resistances to each element. The variation in elemental and status resistances is much higher than in the original game. Each monster family also has visual ques, so you can usually tell what families a monster is in by its appearance. Here is the file containing all monster families: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fsoy58fxfke4g80/Monster%20Families.xlsx?dl=0
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on July 10, 2019, 05:14:05 pm
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The magic and speed caps are not a game feature, it is an artificial limit created by storing those stats on 1 byte instead of 2. I don't understand why you would praise the game for this. It is bad game design that really hurts the more magic based characters in the endgame.

It's called balance, when you remove caps like this, and if the enemey balance don't take this into account (again, cannot comment on your enemy changes) you end up being even more overpowered then you could be previously because those caps were an upper limit of some of your power level.

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to say that the Elnard bonuses are a highlight is going a little far. After a certain point in the game, apprentice battles become virtually impossible.

This is just false, someone before already said it better, so I'll just quote them.

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You can't ever *really* get stuck up against a wall in 7th Saga. First of all, you only have to encounter 2 "enemy" apprentices in the game.

First, in Patrof. However while this seems incredibly daunting, the level for this apprentice is actually frozen from the first time you encounter them (technically the first time you pass through Eygus). So you can out-level that apprentice the same way you could any other boss in the game. A lot of people just overlook this fact because they assume it's a normal apprentice battle and therefore works the same.

The second encounter is the apprentice who steals the Sky Rune (yes, this always happens, you cannot "beat" them to the Sky Rune). However, in most runs you don't *have* to beat this apprentice. I don't know the exact rules, but I've found that under most situations you can almost always get them to join-up with you, instead. I think it might even be a hard rule in the game that they *have* to offer to join you (someone here can probably dispute that). Even if that's not the case, it's always possible to pick a good sidekick, kill your main character, then level your sidekick up until *they* can bulldoze the Sky Rune apprentice.

With all that said, I don't see the enemy apprentice situation as a big negative. The only way you can really get yourself "stuck against the wall" is if you let a random apprentice kill you, steal all of your runes (including Wind) and then save. But... I've never understood why anyone would *ever* do that. Even from my very first run of the game as a young child, that seemed like a pretty obvious reset scenario.

So if we discount it as a negative, then we have to ask, are there any advantages to it? Well, in my opinion, yes. The enemy apprentices working the way they work in 7th Saga gives the game an accidental baked-in "Secret Boss" situation. Instead of having to have a dedicated boss like Emerald Weapon and Ruby weapon, in 7th Saga the ultimate challenge is a level 80 Lux, or a level 80 Valsu. Even once you're long past the point where Gorsia will crumble under you, the enemy apprentices still represent a challenge, with the only catch being you have to stay in the Present if you want to tackle the truly hardest obstacles the game has to offer.

So personally... I don't know that I really *do* see this romhack as being a true "improvement" on 7th Saga as it stands today. If it makes you enjoy the game more personally then you should absolutely play it and I won't judge you for it. Games are to have fun, after all. But for me, the overpowered apprentices is generally something people worry about too much, because they don't really impact your game, by and large. Most runs, you'll only ever have to kill *one* apprentice, ever. and that's the Patrof one, whose level is frozen and they won't grow with you.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 10, 2019, 07:13:15 pm
Special, all you've done thus far is complain that my romhack doesn't suit you (despite not playing it), ignore my counterarguments, and take what I say out of context. I am not going to waste my time talking to you under those circumstances. If you had read the documentation I posted earlier today, you would have noticed that enemies also have over 255 magic/speed. Your correction on being able to defeat enemy apprentices at level 80, while partially correct, has nothing to do with what I said.

It seems that your only interest is in the difficulty of 7th Saga romhacks, and in making my romhack fit your vision for the game. If that is all you care about, feel free to look elsewhere. I have no interest in the opinions of those who criticize a game or romhack that they have never played, while refusing to listen to any counterarguments.

Manamiko, I am interested in hearing about your experience playing my romhack, feel free to let me know how it is going either in this thread, or through PMs.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Special on July 10, 2019, 07:31:51 pm
You're right, I won't waste anymore of our time on this, at least not until I give it a try. Also you should go start your own thread, this one is not about your 7th Saga project so no need to hijack it, it's for what John has cooking.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 10, 2019, 08:27:56 pm
I was contacted by someone in this thread asking for my magic and speed code. This thread was my only way to respond to them. It is for that reason that I posted it here. I agree that discussion on this should be moved elsewhere, so I will make a separate thread once I have the chance to make some updates to my romhack this weekend.
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Manamiko on July 11, 2019, 12:49:22 am
For those who want to compare, this is how my run has gone so far. I am lvl 29, I defeated lux *rather easily* for the sky rune * I like playing solo, makes it harder.* I just defeated the Serpent for the Moon Rune. My stats:
HP: 207
MP: 261
Power: 112
Guard: 118
Magic: 168
Speed: 140
Weapon: 65
Defend: 70

Oh, that part about wondering if its too easy. I am wearing the ice cloak FTW. I still took 60-80 dmg from Ice 2 from the boss, and with def 1 popped it still hit me for 60-80 physically. At one point I took a crit for 120+ and almost died. The enemies are not much easier, even though the ice cloak debuffed some of their attacks afterwards such as the wyrocks and knights. This is by no means easy, but it is fun
Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: IrohDW on July 11, 2019, 08:58:18 pm
Thanks for the update Manamiko. How difficult each area of the game is depends a lot on what character you are. Serpent is easier than average for Esuna because the ice cloak boosts her ice res, and she has high magic defense. Although physical attacks still cause her problems. I expect players to beat both Doros and Serpent at around level 30, so you are at the right level for where you are.

Here are some examples of how other characters do in Serpent's castle:

Wilme will deal a lot of damage (B. Knights and Serpent are weak to fire), but if he gets hit with ice spells, it will wreck him.

Lux, Kamil, and Olvan have the easiest time, due to them having the highest ice res and physical defense in the game, but they struggle more in Doros's castle due to the prevalence of fire monsters there.


The greater variety I created by adding different enemy attack patterns, enemy abilities, character abilities, etc. means that every character's weaknesses will be exploited in some areas more than others, but every character has a hard time at some point on their journey. The difficulty of the game is different for every character combination. This makes the game very replayable, and gives the player a reason to switch partners at different areas in the game.

One neat thing I discovered when making this romhack is that the first spell in an enemy's spell list will only be cast when they are low on health. To make things more interesting, I used this to make some bosses cast more powerful spells when they are low on health (around 25% of their maxHP). For example, Serpent will cast Blizzard2, which is WAY more powerful than her usual Ice2, and is designed to catch the player off guard. Although, it is very possible to kill her before she gets a chance to Cast Blizzard2. This mechanic is also the reason enemy apprentices will always use healing spells when they are low on HP.



Title: Re: Wip projects for the 7th saga (Snes)
Post by: Manamiko on July 12, 2019, 12:41:07 am
I took out Doros without much of an issue, but being lvl 31 his fire 2 still dealt a solid 100+ dmg per cast. I am currently fighting Metal Pison at lvl 39 sporting an hp pool of 279. One thing I always found lack luster about this fight is the only way to fight him with magic is using the B fire/Ice attempts or having a partner after the curse is cast, which is ok. I was curious if he would be a bit more lethal so the preference of his power is up to you, but at the moment, with star rune / light rune popped, his Laser 2 only hits me for 25 dmg, and phys for 50, so it isn't much of a concern. I always wished they made him far harder in the original game because, who doesn't remember how much of a bastard he was when you fought him as Red Pison and he started wrecking us if we didnt grind first  :laugh:

Edit: I did not even notice it until now, but when you have multiples of equipment (such as 4 Swords, 3 Zntes, etc) which you normally wouldnt have unless you strangely hoard or you grind the sword monster out, but, when you sell it, such as the Sword that goes for 20K, if you sell more than 1 since it sells the entire pile, you only receive the gold for a quantity of 1. So if I sell 8 Swords, instead of 160k, its 20k  :D

2nd Edit/Update: Even with this feature of selling, I am lvl 55 *grinding a bit before I go into the past* and I am already sitting on 770k gold. Unsure of how much seeds cost at melenam, since I saw you spoiled that in another post :P but I cant wait. Bed time for now! P.S. N. Brains hit significantly harder than M. Pison with their lightning spells