Romhacking.net

General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Zero Dozer on September 15, 2016, 11:19:28 pm

Title: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zero Dozer on September 15, 2016, 11:19:28 pm
Nintendo has been on a big witch hunt against piracy lately since they shut AM2R down.

While Game Jolt has been a justified case somehow, I've started to see rumors on Metroid Construction on a discussion regarding AM2R and fan games. First, news on Gamnesia saying that Nintendo is seeking someone to ramp up said witch hunt. And then, the news that Nintendo raided a site to shut down 2200 ROMs, including hacks.

This means that NO ONE is safe from Nintendo. Sure, neither MetConst nor RHDN hosts ROMs and ISOs themselves, but even so, Nintendo has seem to have full intent to hunt down everyone who tinkles with their games or make new ones based on them. And by everyone, it seems they now mean even ROM hackers...
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Chronosplit on September 15, 2016, 11:34:38 pm
No.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zero Dozer on September 15, 2016, 11:38:18 pm
No.

Okay, and what are the warranties that Nintendo won't come to hunt ROM hackers down like they are doing to the rest?

I was really angry because of the AM2R episode, but now, with those news... I'm getting actually frightened.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Bonesy on September 15, 2016, 11:44:04 pm
PARANOIAAAAAA
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Revenant on September 15, 2016, 11:53:01 pm
If Nintendo goes after a ROM site (what specific site are you even talking about?) that's because it was a ROM site, which is plainly illegal. Nintendo (and the ESA and other related organizations) have been going after ROM sites for something like 20 years now. Romhacking.net isn't a ROM site.

Nintendo shut down AM2R because it was blatant copyright infringement. The entire reason ROM hacking sites only distribute patches is to avoid copyright infringement as much as reasonably possible.

It's entirely plausible that Nintendo might try to issue DMCA takedowns against Romhacking.net for specific hacks, or send C&D notices to hack authors or something like that, but in the long run that's about as likely as it's always been - that is, not very.

There is virtually no chance of the entire site somehow getting shut down because of Nintendo. If it were that big of a legal issue, it probably would have come up already.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zynk on September 15, 2016, 11:55:49 pm
Well someone is enjoying selling his romhacks out in the open with Facebook and a Weebly site of his own and a Youtube channel.

So no, Nintendo is very, very lax with that "witch hunting" thing.  :-X
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zero Dozer on September 15, 2016, 11:59:05 pm
First: If it was because of copyright infringement, why did Nintendo wait for DocM64 to complete and release the game to C&D him then and not way before?

Second: This is the link with the news on the ROM site raid: http://skirmishfrogs.com/2016/03/19/nintendo-tells-website-to-remove-2200-roms-including-hacks/

Third: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a huge load of the hacks hosted here centered around Nintendo games?

Well someone is enjoying selling his romhacks out in the open with Facebook and a Weebly site of his own and a Youtube channel.

So no, Nintendo is very, very lax with that "witch hunting" thing.  :-X

Lax? Neither Doc nor the creators of Pokémon Uranium profited from making their fan games, did you know that? And what about the cases for the fan films that Nintendo shut down?
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Revenant on September 16, 2016, 12:09:41 am
First: If it was because of copyright infringement, why did Nintendo wait for DocM64 to complete and release the game to C&D him then and not way before?

Maybe it just wasn't on the radar of Nintendo's legal department until dozens of gaming news sites started covering the actual release of the game.

Quote
Second: This is the link with the news on the ROM site raid: http://skirmishfrogs.com/2016/03/19/nintendo-tells-website-to-remove-2200-roms-including-hacks/

Okay, so a ROM site got busted for hosting thousands of ROMs. This isn't really news. If you're distributing full sets of unmodified Nintendo console games, you're helping people pirate games that Nintendo still makes money from. That's a pretty big reason for them to go after you.

Again, that's why Romhacking.net only deals in patches - distributing pre-patched hacks of a commercial game is, of course, equally illegal to distributing the original game.

Quote
Third: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a huge load of the hacks hosted here centered around Nintendo games?

You're probably correct. But given that most of the downloads are patches that themselves contain very little or no copyrighted content, the chance of this actually presenting a major legal issue is still rather small.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zero Dozer on September 16, 2016, 12:30:39 am
So you mean Kotaku condemned the two fan games (AM2R and Pokémon Uranium)? (Makes sense, people accused them of doing it.)
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: KingMike on September 16, 2016, 12:50:37 am
So that site was running Flash-based emulators running the games on a browser?

No wonder they got shut down. They can't even apply the "we provide it for backup use only for users who own the original" defense (which as I read, works depending on what country you live in. Supposedly that's legitimate in at least some EU countries, not the US though.) because they're letting the user play the game RIGHT THERE.

I really doubt Nintendo is oblivious to the site's existence and hasn't known about since we started. Or its predecessor The Whirlpool for that matter.

And since I know someone's going to reply about copyright law stuff, no, I know hosting patches doesn't make it "legal" but it does make FAR less worthy for them to threaten legal action.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Spooniest on September 16, 2016, 01:41:45 am
I agree that it's telling that they have not done this already.

Additionally, RHDN is rather...I want to characterize it as "modest," I guess? RHDN doesn't have advertisements on their site, they don't advertise on other sites, and they are, with the exception of a small compliment of staff, entirely user-driven. No corporations are involved, and little money is being made, if any, by the site itself. Heck, they even do a damn good job of keeping the spambots out.

No money = small potatoes in the legal business.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Bregalad on September 16, 2016, 02:24:29 pm
Just in case, BBCode does not work in titles and was never supposed to.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Lilinda on September 16, 2016, 06:55:57 pm
So you mean Kotaku condemned the two fan games (AM2R and Pokémon Uranium)? (Makes sense, people accused them of doing it.)

Everyone who talked about them condemned them. Placing the blame solely on Kotaku is willingly putting blinders on yourself, plugging your ears and screaming lalalalalalalaalala to the entire situation.

And now I feel dirty for defending Kotaku. I've had to do this twice today(once in IMs). Uuuuuuuuuuuugh somebody hit me.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Zero Dozer on September 16, 2016, 11:02:48 pm
Everyone who talked about them condemned them. Placing the blame solely on Kotaku is willingly putting blinders on yourself, plugging your ears and screaming lalalalalalalaalala to the entire situation.

And now I feel dirty for defending Kotaku. I've had to do this twice today(once in IMs). Uuuuuuuuuuuugh somebody hit me.

I took Kotaku as a single example, I know many other did spread the word on the media about the fan games. But you can't deny that Kotaku is big media nowadays.

I remember there was even a fan game that was preemptively taken down by its creator and turned secret because Kotaku made news on it, just because the makers knew it was bad news.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on September 17, 2016, 12:07:03 am
It's entirely plausible that Nintendo might try to issue DMCA takedowns against Romhacking.net for specific hacks, or send C&D notices to hack authors or something like that, but in the long run that's about as likely as it's always been - that is, not very.

There is virtually no chance of the entire site somehow getting shut down because of Nintendo. If it were that big of a legal issue, it probably would have come up already.

If that were to happen, the site would just become SegaHacking :P.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Kallisto on September 21, 2016, 03:49:51 pm
I would not put it past Nintendo if they start targeting here though. This is Nintendo we're talking about...I would not be surprised if they try to destroy fan translation too.

I think we need to prepare for that possibility.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Chronosplit on September 22, 2016, 04:42:41 pm
I would not put it past Nintendo if they start targeting here though. This is Nintendo we're talking about...I would not be surprised if they try to destroy fan translation too.

I think we need to prepare for that possibility.
If for some ungodly reason something happens to RHDN instead of the usual patch author it's already been prepared to some capacity.  Most translation patches (granted yes, not all in patch form) have other places for obtaining them because they're of some importance, and if not there's almost always someone with a hard drive full of every (English at least) translation ever to exist for the sake of "what if."  If the only thing that exists is pre-patched we can just go and make a patch out of it again as long as we have the root file it patched.

The only change outside of the forum being gone would be that everything just wouldn't be all in one place anymore until someone attempts to make a new place for that.  Kinda like fansubs.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: lexluthermiester on October 09, 2016, 03:18:46 am
I would not put it past Nintendo if they start targeting here though.

This is very unlikely to happen. For various reasons.

This is Nintendo we're talking about...I would not be surprised if they try to destroy fan translation too.

That is equally unlikely.

Here's why.

1. Modifying game code is legal as is the patches and utilities that provide such. Otherwise cheat devices and codes[such as Game Genie, Action Replay, Codebreaker and the like] would similarly be unlawful.
2. Most of what is hosted on RHDN is falls under the umbrella of "fair-use". The instances that do not are hosted with the permission of the creator.
3. RHDN is not hosting the games themselves, only patches that can be applied to them.
4. RHDN is hosted in Italy. Italy is well known for having a very different stance on copyrights. The DMCA is not upheld there generally speaking.
5. RHDN is not profiting or gaining revenue hosting said modding content. It is completely non-profit IFAIPK.
6. RHDN actively promotes the educational side of modding/hacking/translating.

RHDN being shut down? It's possible, but not for the reasons discussed here.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Bregalad on October 09, 2016, 06:00:48 am
It's funny RHDN is hosted in Italy. I had absolutely no idea it was located just next door to where I live :)
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: Chronosplit on October 11, 2016, 12:05:50 pm
Quote
1. Modifying game code is legal as is the patches and utilities that provide such. Otherwise cheat devices and codes[such as Game Genie, Action Replay, Codebreaker and the like] would similarly be unlawful.
Never thought of that one.  Right there, that's a good point that makes this whole topic moot.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on October 11, 2016, 09:31:58 pm
The irony being that Nintendo has gone after the Game Genie, in hopes of courts seeing it as illegal.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: FAST6191 on October 12, 2016, 05:06:43 am
The irony being that Nintendo has gone after the Game Genie, in hopes of courts seeing it as illegal.

In the main Galoob vs Nintendo case Galoob technically filed first. Granted it was to seek a "declaratory judgment"
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/780/1283/1445354/
http://museumofintellectualproperty.org/features/game_genie.html

I don't know if Nintendo had rattled a sabre beforehand, and I would agree that anybody that had vaguely followed Nintendo's legal history and approach to the world would know Nintendo would take exception*, but I do have to mention that.

*that it apparently took a year and a half of litigation and then needed a fairly decent court to say what went attesting to that if nothing else.
Title: Re: Will Nintendo target [b]here[/b] next?
Post by: lexluthermiester on October 14, 2016, 04:23:20 pm
In the main Galoob vs Nintendo case Galoob technically filed first. Granted it was to seek a "declaratory judgment"
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/780/1283/1445354/
http://museumofintellectualproperty.org/features/game_genie.html

I don't know if Nintendo had rattled a sabre beforehand, and I would agree that anybody that had vaguely followed Nintendo's legal history and approach to the world would know Nintendo would take exception*, but I do have to mention that.

*that it apparently took a year and a half of litigation and then needed a fairly decent court to say what went attesting to that if nothing else.

Thank You for that. Was going to post a few others I found but yours are much better!

The irony being that Nintendo has gone after the Game Genie, in hopes of courts seeing it as illegal.

And they lost, setting legal precedent[IE case law] in which a court ruled that user modification of game code is not unlawful. See the citations FAST6191 posted above. It is what's know as a "landmark case". Furthermore, the DMCA does not and can not over-ride or superseded that ruling. Thus game modding/hacking is legal. There are, of course, limitations to such modifications, such as the creator must not benefit/profit from said modifications nor deny the copyright holder of same. But in the context of what RHDN is all about, there are no violations of copyright law because it all falls under the "fair-use" umbrella.