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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Burnt Lasagna on April 15, 2016, 08:51:38 am

Title: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 15, 2016, 08:51:38 am
Hey,
I've been working on bringing the official canon names to Green_goblin's PSX port of the Final Fantasy VII Re-localization. While I find the translation work to be much improved over the original, I find the new (more accurate) names to be off-putting (Ex: Phoenix Down is now Phoenix Tail). Below is a beta addendum patch (just hasn't been tested much).
[updated "5/28/2016" (v0.3)]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0dbcf5cb5bjl2s/FF7-Canon(v0.3).zip?dl=1

It (currently) must be applied to the unofficial update to the re-localization patch, I created, here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qmrubol9oct2em2/FF7-Because.zip?dl=1
It fixes these issues present in Green_goblin's current patch.
Code: [Select]
-Includes the translated nvmkin1.dat that Green_goblin forgot.
-Fixes the {NEW PAGE} issue when Aerith dies.
-Fixes the ellipsis soldier text.
-Fixes the ending movie audio distortion (new subtitling done with FF7Tools).
-Uses the old translation for the Sephiroth and Jenovo cut-scene(new movie has broken audio).
-Rebuilt the images via PSXImager and used FF7Tool's "fixup" to patch in a new LBA for the files.

The original thread for the PSX Because port is here.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,19709.0.html

Below is a Google Doc of all the name changes I have implemented into the PSX port.
(list formulated with the help of Chronosplit and Cold_spirit).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dV749b3pbzEnxdBUsyUx0s6BGAiFt29FrSWjVp8z4HU/edit?usp=sharing
I'm currently waiting on Green_goblin to release his update to the main PSX patch before calling this addendum "finished". In the mean time, I'd appreciate some suggestions on name changes/bugs.

For reference, here is also DLPB/Luksy's Google Doc on names changed from the Original game to their Re-localization.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KBBbeilQTCAJJIOqOoLMnkKb-nEpqEoV5Ih4uW-Yoo8/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1292658812

NOTE: I will change any Name, Item , Summon, ect, that Square-Enix has used throughout the series.  Any names that are exclusive to Final Fantasy VII (AKA, never mentioned in Crisis Core/Advent Children/Dirge of Cerberus or any other game) I will leave as DLPB/Luksy has it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 15, 2016, 09:17:23 am
I'm all for this. Moogles, Phoenix Downs, Chocobos, Mythril all of it should be Square's official current names.

With that said, Aeris should be Aerith. I know some are adamant about Aeris, but it's Square's official name for the character.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on April 15, 2016, 09:31:46 am
Still sad to see the Limit Break changes go, but I'm really hype to see this one happen.  This is sorely needed to be sure IMO.

With that said, Aeris should be Aerith. I know some are adamant about Aeris, but it's Square's official name for the character.
I agree with this, even though a naming section exists.  Also Bolt Armlet... maybe make that Thunder Armlet as a compromise?  It feels kind of weird because Bolt is now Thunder.  Then again, that didn't stop other games from doing it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 15, 2016, 09:44:37 am
With that said, Aeris should be Aerith. I know some are adamant about Aeris, but it's Square's official name for the character.
Yes, Aeris is will be Aerith in this addendum (it's Aerith in the base Re-localization also).
Still sad to see the Limit Break changes go, but I'm really hype to see this one happen.
[...]  Also Bolt Armlet... maybe make that Thunder Armlet as a compromise?  It feels kind of weird because Bolt is now Thunder.  Then again, that didn't stop other games from doing it.
What's sad about the limit break changes?
As for Bolt Armlet, it's called that in Crisis Core. It's also called "Thunderbolt Armlet" in Type Zero but I'm more likely to side with Crisis Core since it's in the same universe as FF7 (Note: Final Fantasy Record Keeper also calls it Bolt Armlet).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on April 15, 2016, 10:00:53 am
Quote
What's sad about the limit break changes?
I've just grown partial to the retranslated terms is all.  It's personal preference as I feel the retranslations read better, but I'm not complaining.  I can see why the changes were needed for the addendum, after all Climhazzard is near everywhere. :P

Quote
As for Bolt Armlet, it's called that in Crisis Core. It's also called "Thunderbolt Armlet" in Type Zero but I'm more likely to side with Crisis Core since it's in the same universe as FF7 (Note: Final Fantasy Record Keeper also calls it Bolt Armlet).
Ah, that makes total sense then.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 26, 2016, 06:32:14 pm
Updated the first post with a beta patch of sorts. It's meant to be applied to the current PSX re-localization patch (April 1st one).
It includes all name changes in the Google Doc above. Let me know if you guys find any bugs/things to change.
Also, I fixed a couple of problems with the main patch, such as including the translated nvmkin1.dat that Green_goblin forgot in the base patch, fixed the {NEW PAGE} issue when Aerith dies, and fixed the ellipsis soldier text.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on April 26, 2016, 08:49:24 pm
So far so good here!  Nicely done.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 27, 2016, 10:53:54 am
I was playing a little of the intro and noticed two mistakes.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47184537/Projects/RetroArch-0427-103325.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47184537/Projects/RetroArch-0427-103550.png)
"...sigh..." is yellow and there is an instance of District that I forgot to replace with Sector.
I've fixed the above issues (wanted to say so here so no one reports on it).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on April 28, 2016, 12:36:34 pm
Hi, I like your project since I like the canon names a bit more, I'm currently playing through Green_Globlin's project and posting any mistakes or issues I find, I have pointed a few if you wanna check them out on this thread http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,19709.260.html my findings are mostly on page 13 & 14 of the thread.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on April 28, 2016, 02:39:40 pm
Speaking of which, is the yellow text issue also in the vanilla retranslation?  I didn't catch it on an earlier playthrough if it was. :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on April 28, 2016, 03:59:27 pm
I didn't catch it either.

Anyway, I have a suggestion for the canon name of one of Yuffie's limit breaks. The one originally called Meikyo Shisui, or Clear Tranquil in the original localization. The Beacause translation sets it as "Tranquil mind", but in FFXI it's a Samurai's 2 hour ability (well, 1 hour nowadays) and it's set as such, with its japanese romanization.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meikyo_Shisui

Though if this change were to be made, I believe most if not all of Yuffie's limit breaks should follow suit. in FFXI at least Samurai as well as Ninja abilities remain untranslated. IMO it's a nice way of handling it because it gives out that they all have a foreign nature since you know Wutai where Yuffie comes from is basically Japan in FFVII.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 29, 2016, 03:35:31 pm
Hi, I like your project since I like the canon names a bit more, I'm currently playing through Green_Globlin's project and posting any mistakes or issues I find, I have pointed a few if you wanna check them out on this thread http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,19709.260.html my findings are mostly on page 13 & 14 of the thread.
Thanks, the current beta patch for this project does include fixes for the Solider text and Cloud's Flashback (that scene is using the original game's translation by mistake), which you mentioned.
 
Though if this change were to be made, I believe most if not all of Yuffie's limit breaks should follow suit. in FFXI at least Samurai as well as Ninja abilities remain untranslated. IMO it's a nice way of handling it because it gives out that they all have a foreign nature since you know Wutai where Yuffie comes from is basically Japan in FFVII.
I looked through Yuffie's limit breaks and found two other Limit Breaks to change (not including Meikyo Shisui) .
Code: [Select]
Tranquil Mind = Meikyo Shisui
Blood Sacrifice = Bloodfest
Killer Blow = Gauntlet
What else did you have in mind?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on April 30, 2016, 07:24:22 am
Midgar Swarm/Zolom also goes by another name these days.

FFIII: Yormungand (this however, appears to be a different case.)
FFVI: Midgardsormr
FFX:: Jormungand
FFXI: Jormungand
FFXIV: Midgardsormr
FFT: Midgardsormr

...And I just realized I screwed up on my FFT name fix.  Whoops.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on April 30, 2016, 11:33:18 am
Midgar Swarm/Zolom also goes by another name these days.

FFIII: Yormungand (this however, appears to be a different case.)
FFVI: Midgardsormr
FFX:: Jormungand
FFXI: Jormungand
FFXIV: Midgardsormr
FFT: Midgardsormr

...And I just realized I screwed up on my FFT name fix.  Whoops.
The Re-Translation actually has it as Midgardsormr (which FF6[GBA], FF14 and FFT calls it).
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Midgardsormr
I'll leave it as is, since Midgardsormr is used in most modern FF translations.   
 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Rodimus Primal on April 30, 2016, 03:56:04 pm
Thanks, the current beta patch for this project does include fixes for the Solider text and Cloud's Flashback (that scene is using the original game's translation by mistake), which you mentioned.
  I looked through Yuffie's limit breaks and found two other Limit Breaks to change (not including Meikyo Shisui) .
Code: [Select]
Tranquil Mind = Meikyo Shisui
Blood Sacrifice = Bloodfest
Killer Blow = Gauntlet
What else did you have in mind?

I like the original Limit Break names personally. I'm also in favor of Midgardsormr as well.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 02, 2016, 10:49:22 am
Also, I forgot,
Code: [Select]
Flash Lightning = Greased Lightninghttp://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Greased_Lightning_%28ability%29
At least Tactics A2 also calls it Greased Lightning. Tactics Advance calls it Greased Bolt and FF4-2 calls it Gale Rush.
I'm more likely to side with Greased Lightning because,
1) A2 calls it Greased Lightning and Tactics Advance comes close (bolt is just an abridged version of Lightning).
and
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK63eUyk-iM

Anyone want to debate this?
EDIT: Also, Airborne Brigade and Record Keeper also have it as Greased Lightning.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on May 03, 2016, 04:02:36 pm
It's pretty sound to me.  Greased Bolt would probably be Greased Lightning in FFTA if it wasn't for it's trend of calling things Bolt that aren't the Thunder spells (Bolt Blade, Bolt Breath, etc.)  I think that was because of menu space.

May 08, 2016, 02:50:47 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Speaking of Tactics Advance, Hardedge is a greatsword of similar design on there that seems to be an intentional reference.  Also Fire Veil is a Ninja Skill.  So...

Hard Breaker>Hardedge
Katon>Fire Veil
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 10, 2016, 04:01:09 pm
Speaking of Tactics Advance, Hardedge is a greatsword of similar design on there that seems to be an intentional reference.  Also Fire Veil is a Ninja Skill.  So...

Hard Breaker>Hardedge
Katon>Fire Veil
I agree with you on Hard Breaker = Hardedge.
However, Katon seems to only be called Fire Veil in FF7, Tactics Advance and A2. Everywhere else it's Flame or (as the re-translation has it) Katon.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Flame_%28Ninjutsu%29

EDIT: Turns out I already have Hard Breaker changed to Hardedge in the current patch. I just forgot to add some of the Weapon changes to the Google Doc (Fixed now).

May 10, 2016, 10:13:05 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Updated the first post with an updated Canon Addendum.
It is based off of the unofficial update to the re-localization patch I created here.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47184537/Projects/FF7-Because.zip
(I hope to adopt it to whatever Green_goblin makes the next official release later).
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47184537/Projects/RetroArch-0510-211551.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47184537/Projects/RetroArch-0510-211726.png)

This newest patch has all changes talked about in this thread applied.
Also, like the unofficial update to the base patch, this is a rebuilt ISO with LBA changed accordingly.
The field data has also had all unused texted cleaned out (using Makou Reactor). This should improve load times (ever so slightly).

I'd appreciate some testers.  :)

EDIT: The damage limit has also been changed back to 9999 in the latest Canon patch. Green_goblin set it to 65000 in the base patch.


Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 11, 2016, 11:21:54 pm
I had forgotten to mention it. The Spell to revive, on Green_Goblin's version is called "Rise" the Cannon is "Raise". Same goes for Arise, the cannon name is "Araise".

Sources:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Raise_(Life_1)
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Araise

I played FFXI for many years that's the name of the spells since then I believe. Also I think in FFVI Advance they're called that.

The lighting weakness text still reads "Weak against LightÑ" at least for the Custom Sweeper enemies outside of Midgar.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 11, 2016, 11:52:10 pm
Thanks for the findings! I'll be adding Rise, however, I'm not sure about Araise. According to the wiki, the only game to call it "Araise" is Final Fantasy Dimensions (everything else mostly calls it Arise). Also, in the Etymology section it says this,
Quote
Although the Araise name is rarely preserved in English releases, the spell was revealed for Final Fantasy XI as Araise and named Araise on the Test Server, but after players denounced the name Araise, the English localization team stated that it was simply a "temporary" name while the spell was in development. On its full release, the spell was named Arise.

EDIT: Also, I need to do some Window resizing on the current patch...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 12, 2016, 11:34:15 am
I was doing the Rocket Huge Materia last nite, I don't remember if this was on the original game or not. But the window where it says to input the code is not properly centered horizontally on screen, it's a bit leaned towards the left.

May 12, 2016, 11:44:21 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I was wondering why the Ame no murakumo was changed back to Heaven's Cloud if many games after FFVII call it by its japanese name.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ame_no_Murakumo

Personally I like Ame/Ama no murakumo better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 12, 2016, 11:56:17 am
Yeah, I need to auto resize all the text windows...that will be fixed in the next update.
EDIT: I believe Cold_spirit suggested the change because Dissidia has it as Heaven's Cloud. I did not know it is mostly known as Ame no Murakumo. I'll consider changing it back.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Rodimus Primal on May 12, 2016, 06:33:27 pm
Yeah, I need to auto resize all the text windows...that will be fixed in the next update.
EDIT: I believe Cold_spirit suggested the change because Dissidia has it as Heaven's Cloud. I did not know it is mostly known as Ame no Murakumo. I'll consider changing it back.

Being that its a translation difference and that Square is using it as Heaven's Cloud in Dissidia, I say go with that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 12, 2016, 06:55:47 pm
Yeah but Ame no Murakumo sounds so much more interesting. Out of all of Cloud's Swords only 2 and this one have japanese names and it's nice to have a touch of the foreign nature, there are so many others that have a proper english name. Think it kinda like how the japanese have english names on an otherwise all japanese game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on May 12, 2016, 07:04:21 pm
The name is kind of split with an argument for both uses.  Usually Heaven's Cloud talks about a Katana though, which in FF is usually localized using the Japanese name to represent the fact that they're from a foreign land.  So Ame no Murakumo does end up fitting more in the end.

I left it as-is in FFT at least, mostly due to fears about name length.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Midna on May 12, 2016, 10:34:25 pm
I could see SE leaving it as Ame-no-Murakumo. Like Chronosplit said, they usually leave terms relating to ninjas and such in Japanese for flavor purposes.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 13, 2016, 11:10:59 am
Most games call it some form of Ame no Murakumo. However, Tactic Advance, Dissidia and Lightning Returns have it as Heaven's Cloud...

How about this?
Code: [Select]
Heaven's Cloud = Ame-no-MurakumoThe above is what FF12 calls it (hyphens and all).
The stock retranslation has it as Ama no Murakumo (note "Ama" instead of "Ame").
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 13, 2016, 01:55:03 pm
I found something on your patch. None of the item icons in dialog display properly. First tested when getting the Venus Gospel then it didn't display when getting the items of the crashed gernica.

As for "Ame no murakumo" or "Ama no murakumo" it's the same, if you type it in japanese both will give you 天叢雲 same kanji for ame or ama. However you decide to put it, lose the hyphens please, they would seem very out of place. Wonder why FFXII had the hyphens there.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 13, 2016, 04:33:50 pm
I found something on your patch. None of the item icons in dialog display properly. First tested when getting the Venus Gospel then it didn't display when getting the items of the crashed gernica.
That might be due to my changes to WINDOW.BIN.
I'll be fixing this for the next update.

Thanks for your feedback Kensou!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 14, 2016, 01:47:42 pm
No prob, I found another issue that I posted about on Green_globlin's thread.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: saldite on May 21, 2016, 06:06:15 am
Absolutely excellent. One of my favorite options of the PC version were the naming options due to not being a fan of things like "Phoenix Tail", so this gives more options for the PS1 version. Just in time, too, considering a menu bug in the PC version was driving me nuts so I decided to switch over to the PS1 version for the retranslation.

If I notice any big bugs, I'll be sure to report them. I'll be playing on a PS2 for any future reference.

EDIT: Very minor thing, but I think the MD5s are incorrect in the readme, probably from the prior version. The original unpatched ISOs, the Because patched ISOs, and the Canon patched ISOs all have different sums than the readme. Original ISOs were all redump verified.

Original MD5
cce4e76d020b47847fe8e2f81ff613db - Disc 1
ccf63cd314d3e79878323199eb09d7dd - Disc 2
eac916b42d5c24f951c8dec2f13a63de - Disc 3
 
Because MD5 (May 10, 2016 Edit)
0f64e44c170d7f51066b748a5687b1e9 - Disc 1
f0cb764143aabaeebd2a37e1751c26d2 - Disc 2
74b3a54a3a663645202d1bdbda0df590 - Disc 3
 
Canon MD5 (May 10, 2016 v0.02)
12dee62f62f0bb0aadd2b1c658c5ce51 - Disc 1
ac2f4a4db7c35558b63cc2cbd20ff3b8 - Disc 2
bada1894ab304ff69c89870b58925953 - Disc 3
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 21, 2016, 11:41:19 am
EDIT: Very minor thing, but I think the MD5s are incorrect in the readme, probably from the prior version. The original unpatched ISOs, the Because patched ISOs, and the Canon patched ISOs all have different sums than the readme. Original ISOs were all redump verified.

Original MD5
cce4e76d020b47847fe8e2f81ff613db - Disc 1
ccf63cd314d3e79878323199eb09d7dd - Disc 2
eac916b42d5c24f951c8dec2f13a63de - Disc 3
 
Because MD5 (May 10, 2016 Edit)
0f64e44c170d7f51066b748a5687b1e9 - Disc 1
f0cb764143aabaeebd2a37e1751c26d2 - Disc 2
74b3a54a3a663645202d1bdbda0df590 - Disc 3
 
Canon MD5 (May 10, 2016 v0.02)
12dee62f62f0bb0aadd2b1c658c5ce51 - Disc 1
ac2f4a4db7c35558b63cc2cbd20ff3b8 - Disc 2
bada1894ab304ff69c89870b58925953 - Disc 3
Your right, I somehow got the wrong MD5 when writing the readme. Thanks for the heads up!
Also, I might be releasing a new beta pretty soon, so maybe you might want to hold out on burning those discs?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: saldite on May 24, 2016, 12:24:07 am
Your right, I somehow got the wrong MD5 when writing the readme. Thanks for the heads up!
Also, I might be releasing a new beta pretty soon, so maybe you might want to hold out on burning those discs?
Whoops, already burned them that day. Haven't gotten a chance to play yet, though, and I have hundreds more.
I'll hold off on starting a new game until the next version is out so I'm not reporting issues you already know about.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Tivo6 on May 27, 2016, 06:54:57 am
hey

does this final fantasy 7 hack change the storyplay and gameplay at all
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on May 27, 2016, 02:55:10 pm
hey

does this final fantasy 7 hack change the storyplay and gameplay at all
As far as gameplay goes, no way.  The only changes in the core retranslation to that at all are bugfixes.

This is purely a text revision and nothing more.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: zfreeman on May 27, 2016, 05:12:05 pm
Is the 9999 damage limit considered a bug? Green_goblin mentioned it as such and increased the limit to 65000.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on May 27, 2016, 08:43:47 pm
Green_goblin thought the 9999 damage limit was a bug at first but later found out it wasn't. However, he kept the new 65000 damage limit anyways because he preferred it this way.
I changed it back to the original because I'd like this Canon patch to be closer to what an official US release would be like.

May 28, 2016, 08:34:30 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Updated the first post with a new beta patch (v0.3).
All name fixes suggested in this thread since the last beta have been added (including reverting Heaven's Cloud back to Ama no Murakumo). Also, the icons not appearing when opening treasure chests have been fixed and all window boxes have been auto resized (using FF7Tools).

However, the bugs that exist in the base Relocalization are still present. Hopefully I can fix those soon.

Again, still in beta, so I'd appreciate some feedback, suggestions, hate mail, ect. 
 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Kensou on May 31, 2016, 02:07:50 am
I haven't had time to play and I'm out of CD-Rs, I'll try to pick up some in the upcoming days and I'll let you know my findings.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: DLPB on October 11, 2016, 01:56:35 am
It's worth noting that sometimes the spellings are the way they are purely because of copyright issues or mistakes.  Mithril is from Tolkien - and it's clearly what the Japanese writers intended.  But whether by mistake or through fear of being sued, the i became a y. Ochu (correctly Otyugh) is definitely deliberately misspelled in the English games over copyright fears (Alex O Smith told me). Also the motorbike-like monster "Hell Harley VR2" became "Hell Rider VR2".

Sometimes, even fear of offending religious people has had names change in the English version.  Cid's Weapon, Longinus (which is itself likely a mistake on the Japanese writers' part, since that's the name of the person who stabbed Jesus and NOT the spear) was renamed "Spirit Lance". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance  You can see here that it is never known under that name.  It's always "Holy Lance" or "Holy Spear" or "Spear of Destiny". It's very strange to me  that Baskett, or someone else at Square America, understood who Longinus was and amended it.

On the Midgardsormr - this "swarm" business is purely down to the localizer not knowing the mythical beast or how to spell its name. They see the kana for "sormr" and think "Shit.  What the hell is that?"  Not realizing that it is Old Norse. Luckily, later revisions of FF games have tended to use the correct spelling. It's also worth noting that they often use the alternate spelling in the Japanese FF series - Jǫrmungandr. This isn't the case with FF7.  Furthermore, this "Midgard" issue confuses people - they think it's named that way because of the city of Midgar. This isn't true. It's just that in Norse, "Midgard" means "World" - and the city was named after this (but they dropped the d). With the creature, no change was made whatsoever.  They shouldn't have used "Midgardsormr" in FF7... they should have gone with Jǫrmungandr, and that would have avoided any confusion.

On Morbor - it definitely isn't Malboro - but that's the most common name given to it in the English localizations.  Worth noting that FF11 did differ and went with Morbol. Judging by the fact that Morbo means disease in Italian/Latin, I'd say that's the real origin - but that the original designer of the monster simply added an r to the end. It could still be an l at the end though, but without the original creator saying so, we will never know.  I understand that in this case, this project is likely going to go with Malboro, since that's mostly used.

Finally, Cloud's ultimate Limit skill "Omnislash" is actually closer to "Super Ultimate War-God Supreme Slash" - which obviously I ignored for my own sanity.  But more interesting is the fact that "Omnislash" ended up being used  - in Japan - in at least one FF7 spin off game (I can't remember which it was).  So, evidently, even they thought it was bizarre and elected to use the English version :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Midna on October 11, 2016, 04:08:08 am
Finally, Cloud's ultimate Limit skill "Omnislash" is actually closer to "Super Ultimate War-God Supreme Slash" - which obviously I ignored for my own sanity.  But more interesting is the fact that "Omnislash" ended up being used  - in Japan - in at least one FF7 spin off game (I can't remember which it was).  So, evidently, even they thought it was bizarre and elected to use the English version :P

It might have been Dissidia. In the Japanese version, (one of?) Cloud's lines when he activates Omnislash translates to "Slash through everything!"
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on October 14, 2016, 08:14:37 pm
Sometimes, even fear of offending religious people has had names change in the English version.  Cid's Weapon, Longinus (which is itself likely a mistake on the Japanese writers' part, since that's the name of the person who stabbed Jesus and NOT the spear) was renamed "Spirit Lance". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance  You can see here that it is never known under that name.  It's always "Holy Lance" or "Holy Spear" or "Spear of Destiny". It's very strange to me  that Baskett, or someone else at Square America, understood who Longinus was and amended it.
On Morbor - it definitely isn't Malboro - but that's the most common name given to it in the English localizations.  Worth noting that FF11 did differ and went with Morbol. Judging by the fact that Morbo means disease in Italian/Latin, I'd say that's the real origin - but that the original designer of the monster simply added an r to the end. It could still be an l at the end though, but without the original creator saying so, we will never know.  I understand that in this case, this project is likely going to go with Malboro, since that's mostly used.
Thanks for bringing these up.
I implemented these name changes into the Google Doc (will be in next beta release).
Code: [Select]
Morbor = Malboro
Holy Lance = Longinus


Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on October 15, 2016, 09:50:10 am
I wonder now if that means the Longibunne Spear in Tactics wasn't a mistranslation but a censor?  If so that's funny since they kept it in the PSP version.  Anyway I'm not completely sold that this was an actual error in the original Japanese; it can possibly be a reference to EVA (http://wiki.evageeks.org/Spear_of_Longinus) like the Gundam ref in one of Cloud's weapons, and they just needed to shorten it from Spear of Longinus.  From then on Square could've just used the terminology as a FFVII reference.  We'll probably never know for sure.

Either way, it is Longinus in the GBA games where it's used as a postgame weapon (interestingly Spirit Lance stopped being used after FFX) and the Crisis Core ability.  So the name checks out for the purpose of canon.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on October 15, 2016, 10:41:07 am
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Longinus_(weapon) (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Longinus_(weapon))
Most mainline Final Fantasy games call it Longinus, with some calling it Lance of Longinus. A true direct translation (ロンギヌス) is also Longinus.

I'm not really sold on the Holy Lance localization. I don't think it's fare to assume the creators made a mistake and meant the actual Holy Lance. After all, Longinus is a Saint, he has notoriety outside the spear he used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Longinus
I can see a blacksmith naming a spear to honor Saint Longinus.

EDIT: Apparently Bravely Second: End Layer has Longinus as a weapon, with this description.
Quote
The fateful spear used in the execution of a legendary prophet. He was the savior of his people, but was eventually taken prisoner by the land's rulers, who feared his influence. It is said to be a holy relic because it was bathed in his blood. It is particularly effective against creature of the sea.
This basically makes it the Holy Lance. However, it's not a Final Fantasy game.
Final Fantasy Tactics has a this weapon (only translated as Lance of Longibunne) with this description,
Quote
Many adventurers have lost their lives pursuing this spear, said to be capable of piercing solid stone. Legend holds it once slew a demon that had seized control of the mortal realm.
Which doesn't fit the description of the Holy Lance.

EDIT2: Okay, so the PSP version of Final Fantasy II has this description for Longinus,
Quote
An ancient weapon that pierced the side of an immortal.
I can now see the Holy Lance localization being valid.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: DLPB on October 16, 2016, 07:58:43 pm
All the other weapons of Cid are named after weapons. Mythological or otherwise (apart from Mop, which is a joke, and Venus Gospel, which is unique as an ultimate weapon). Some are given unique names but are still lances or spears. 

Spear
Slash Pike
Trident
Pole Axe
Partizan
She Mao
Javelin
Glow Lance
Mop
Dragoon Lance
Qing Long
Fangtian Hua Ji
Holy Lance
Venus Gospel

It seems very unlikely to me that they'd make that one exception.  I agree that Longinus is likely short for "Lance of Longinus" but space limits or considerations in earlier games led to it being simply Longinus. A more faithful localization is Holy Lance imho, which I've used for PC retranslation :)

It could still be that they wanted it named Longinus, but I think the odds are in favour of the actual spear.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Chronosplit on July 20, 2017, 05:31:32 pm
Hey, would anyone happen to have a fresh link to both parts of the addendum?

Dropbox worked it's "magic" here.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Burnt Lasagna on July 20, 2017, 11:37:47 pm
Yeah, Drop Box shut down old public link sharing.
I updated the OP with working links.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Psiloc on January 09, 2019, 12:20:02 pm
Hi there,

Just wondered if I can use this with the current version of the PS1 patch? Notice that this patch seems to be older than the latest beacause patch.

Also, sorry but the Dropbox links in the OP aren't working... any chance of a fix? :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: Mugi on January 10, 2019, 11:13:22 am
Yeah, Drop Box shut down old public link sharing.
I updated the OP with working links.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=27492.msg367640#msg367640

just saying :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII: Square-Enix Canon Addendum
Post by: instadevil on May 21, 2019, 10:09:47 pm
Hi, does anyone have working links for this patch? I would like to try this out but none of the links are working.