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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: DackR on December 14, 2015, 02:39:09 am

Title: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on December 14, 2015, 02:39:09 am
After doing some digging on this topic, it appears that no one is currently working on this game.

I've reverse-engineered the decompression routine this past weekend and can now reliably extract graphical assets from the game. I'll work on the re-compression routine in my spare time this week and hopefully I'll have something to show ya'll by the end of the week. :)

Like all of my work, I will eventually be releasing the source code for any tools I make during this process.

Here is a preview of the work I've done so far:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_preview.png)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on December 14, 2015, 02:59:42 pm
Cool that someone is working on this. I'm guessing the only reason it hasn't been done yet is because there's a variant for the GBA(?). I'd rather play a SNES version though.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: mikeprado30 on December 14, 2015, 09:38:43 pm
If you get this one fully done, you'll deserve my full respect (well, you'll get it when I play at last the Marvelous translated game  :thumbsup: )
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on December 20, 2015, 02:00:23 am
Cool that someone is working on this. I'm guessing the only reason it hasn't been done yet is because there's a variant for the GBA(?). I'd rather play a SNES version though.

I've been wanting someone to work on it for years as well. :) I've only played the original Famicom Wars and the first Advance Wars games (and sfc wars, just not in English), but I enjoy strategy games quite a bit.

If you get this one fully done, you'll deserve my full respect (well, you'll get it when I play at last the Marvelous translated game  :thumbsup: )

Hopefully Marvelous lives up to your expectations. It's been a labor of love for sure. I plan on making a future update to implement VWF, but I released it as is because I had already optimized the text to fit the current space. Thanks for the kind words.

Quick update: The compression routine is nearly finished. I'm working on optimizations at the moment. I'm trying to get the algorithm to output a compression quality very similar if not better than the original. I find it useful to make direct comparisons between the current compressed data and the data output by my code. I may post some details later if I feel like talking through it.

12/24/2015: Been working on this a bit more this week. For the most part, it's complete, but the compressed size of my test file is yet to match the existing compressed data. Looking for inspiration... Let me know if you've got any.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: visualdefenition on January 06, 2016, 01:32:03 pm
You may want to hit up DDSTranslation here in the forums on this game. He worked on the game in the past and made some headway. He might be a good resource. Good luck on this. It would be awesome to finally have this in English. :woot!:
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 06, 2016, 07:42:32 pm
12/24/2015: Been working on this a bit more this week. For the most part, it's complete, but the compressed size of my test file is yet to match the existing compressed data. Looking for inspiration... Let me know if you've got any.
What about changing the pointer to the compressed graphics and move those graphics to a free area in the ROM?
You can always expand the ROM if you run out of space.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Xenesis on January 10, 2016, 07:08:02 am
Glad to see things are happening.

Super Famicom Wars tends to be a hilarious translator's newbie-trap for whatever reason, it'd be nice to see an actual translation for once.

You going to match it to the Advance Wars translations for units/maps/names/etc?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 10, 2016, 12:34:03 pm
You may want to hit up DDSTranslation here in the forums on this game. He worked on the game in the past and made some headway. He might be a good resource. Good luck on this. It would be awesome to finally have this in English. :woot!:
I've sent a PM to see if they would be interested in contributing in some way. I don't mind collaboration in the least. :)

What about changing the pointer to the compressed graphics and move those graphics to a fee area in the ROM?
You can always expand the ROM if you run out of space.
Indeed, this will likely be necessary in the end, and I have had to do this on other projects. My focus on the compression is to make sure my changes take as little additional space as possible. The good news is that I've got a pretty good compression routine worked out now. I still need to do some additional testing, but it might be a couple weeks before I circle back to this.

Super Famicom Wars tends to be a hilarious translator's newbie-trap for whatever reason, it'd be nice to see an actual translation for once.
lol... It's a trap all right. I'll try to make regular updates and be open about my progress.

You going to match it to the Advance Wars translations for units/maps/names/etc?
This is actually not a bad idea. I'll do some comparisons and try to be as consistent as possible with the games that saw official localization.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on January 11, 2016, 12:21:49 am
I did actually start working on this. BUT i got stuck on the TXT compression.

I'm glad some one has gotten through this :-)

D.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gemini on January 11, 2016, 09:40:31 am
Suggestion for a more accurate title screen:
(http://i.imgur.com/BxjkhWS.png)
No image editing involed, it's an actual 3D model, gives better control over perspective effects.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: KingMike on January 11, 2016, 10:41:23 am
I think that "SUPER FAMICOM" needs to be turned a little more towards the camera. It's barely readable as it is, probably even less so converted to tile data.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gemini on January 11, 2016, 12:05:25 pm
Slightly reworked to take care of distant glyphs:
(http://i.imgur.com/ab7L96M.png)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gideon Zhi on January 11, 2016, 04:39:54 pm
I actually prefer the logo shown off in the top post. While this is more accurate from a depth perspective and from the positioning of the letters, it loses a lot of the chunkiness of the original design.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 11, 2016, 05:47:08 pm
Thanks for the examples Gemini! I've actually made a few changes since the initial image.

How about this one:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_logo_v3.png)

I'm still not entirely happy with it, but it's getting closer. :)

This was made in Adobe Illustrator using the 3D Extrusion tool and then edited in Photoshop.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gemini on January 11, 2016, 06:14:37 pm
Extrude is pretty much what I abused as well on C4D. Now you only need somebody to turn that into pixel art with a shading similar to the original and all those nice cracks.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 11, 2016, 06:27:11 pm
(https://c953aedbeb85e856e20d3d979a1aa197c6962af1.googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_logo_v3.png)

I like this best so far.

Honestly, I would prefer to keep the original title logo but simply add a subtitle near the bottom (why don't people ever do this?) but I may be in the minority here.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Xenesis on January 11, 2016, 11:26:22 pm
Honestly, I would prefer to keep the original title logo but simply add a subtitle near the bottom (why don't people ever do this?) but I may be in the minority here.

Honestly? Because Japanese games often have their name subtitled in English anyway (or vice versa where the name graphic is in English and subtitled in katakana/hiragana) and as such it looks untranslated/lazy. Unless you're one of the people who can read Japanese anyway, it's wasting a bunch of screen space for something you can't read.

But I do like that particular logo version anyway. Although a slightly less steep angle might look a bit better.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 11, 2016, 11:48:18 pm
Quote
Honestly? Because Japanese games often have their name subtitled in English anyway (or vice versa where the name graphic is in English and subtitled in katakana/hiragana) and as such it looks untranslated/lazy. Unless you're one of the people who can read Japanese anyway, it's wasting a bunch of screen space for something you can't read.

But the Japanese logos almost always look better whether I can read them or not. I also prefer to not have 100% of a game's Japanese origins bleached out just because some people have no appreciation for that sort of thing. And I disagree about a simple subtitle looking lazy, but that's my opinion. If you want to see lazy, look at some NES title screen and box art localizations/butchering. :D
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 12, 2016, 01:21:52 am
But the Japanese logos almost always look better whether I can read them or not. I also prefer to not have 100% of a game's Japanese origins bleached out just because some people have no appreciation for that sort of thing. And I disagree about a simple subtitle looking lazy, but that's my opinion. If you want to see lazy, look at some NES title screen and box art localizations/butchering. :D
Not to get too far off topic, but I think both you and Xenesis have some valid points. I'm more of the opinion that title reworking should be approached on a case-by-case basis. For example: If the game has a distinctly "Japanese Feel", and/or heavily references Japanese history, places, or culture then it's probably a good idea to think about keeping the original logo and subtitling it. One really good example of an official localization utilizing this layout this is the title for the Onimusha series. I'm sure there many examples of this.

My thinking in the case of Super Famicom Wars is that I should try to approach title localization similar to how a localization team from the 90's might have. And then-- with that in mind, give it a more modern feel. I may add a Japanese subtitle, however. ;)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: KingMike on January 12, 2016, 01:35:40 am
I'm in agreement that it only makes sense to keep Japanese logos in a localization if the game is Japanese-themed.

Though now that I think about it, I wonder what they would've called the game if they localized it officially?
We know Advance Wars is the official western series names (though probably because the GBA version was the first to get official localization, although on the DS, Nintendo of Japan did decide to revert the series title to Famicom Wars).
If one wanted to go super-localization, I'd say Super Nintendo Wars but there's probably better.

(though yes I'd still call it Super Famicom Wars since I've been calling it that since I heard of it in like 2000)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 12, 2016, 02:01:17 am
Quote
We know Advance Wars is the official western series names (though probably because the GBA version was the first to get official localization, although on the DS, Nintendo of Japan did decide to revert the series title to Famicom Wars).
If one wanted to go super-localization, I'd say Super Nintendo Wars but there's probably better.

(though yes I'd still call it Super Famicom Wars since I've been calling it that since I heard of it in like 2000)

Being familar with the standards of the day I'd say that they would likely have chosen the least-cool sounding name possible by trying so desperately to sound cool or edgy or by making the corniest, most obvious pun imaginable.

Anyway... I can't wait to play this game in english. Had I not already seen so many others fail at it I probably would have attempted it myself. LOL
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ObiKKa on January 13, 2016, 04:10:39 pm
DackR, can you try to massively extrude the depth side of those title letters? Also could you try to bend some of them to appear more hidden behind some of the letters on the 2D text side just like the Japanese font? Or is this impossible to do in your free tool?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 13, 2016, 06:32:59 pm
DackR, can you try to massively extrude the depth side of those title letters? Also could you try to bend some of them to appear more hidden behind some of the letters on the 2D text side just like the Japanese font? Or is this impossible to do in your free tool?
I can increase the extrusion depth, but I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of this. Perhaps you want me to increase the spacing between letters? I'm using Adobe Illustrator, so not sure what you mean there either. Can you give me an example?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ObiKKa on January 14, 2016, 04:21:50 am
I noticed in the Japanese font that the depth of these hiragana or letters have its own perspective compared to that of the length of the text from the left to the right. Is this impossible to do in Illustrator?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gemini on January 14, 2016, 05:02:07 am
Extrude is actually the same depth for all characters, it's perspective and camera angle that make weird effect.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Carnivol on January 19, 2016, 05:28:29 pm
We know Advance Wars is the official western series names (though probably because the GBA version was the first to get official localization, although on the DS, Nintendo of Japan did decide to revert the series title to Famicom Wars).
If one wanted to go super-localization, I'd say Super Nintendo Wars but there's probably better.
I kinda think SNESWARS or SNES WARS might look nice as logo, if the idea is to try to keep the style of the original logo.
Or possibly "NESWARS" with a smaller SUPER above the NES bit.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 20, 2016, 07:12:27 am
I noticed in the Japanese font that the depth of these hiragana or letters have its own perspective compared to that of the length of the text from the left to the right. Is this impossible to do in Illustrator?

This is possible, but I don't think it'll ever be perfectly similar. I feel like it's fairly close besides the additional rough-ups that are necessary to make it look like a stone carving.


This is VERY rough, but here is an update more as a proof of concept:
(https://c953aedbeb85e856e20d3d979a1aa197c6962af1.googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_early.png)

I have compression working smoothly. Optimizations to the code will have to wait until later. At least now I can get a modified font inserted so I can start translating menus. :)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Xenesis on January 20, 2016, 08:36:18 pm
Ooh, very nice. I guess some tile positioning needs to be worked out though?

I kinda think SNESWARS or SNES WARS might look nice as logo, if the idea is to try to keep the style of the original logo.
Or possibly "NESWARS" with a smaller SUPER above the NES bit.

There's always "Super Nintendo Wars"
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 20, 2016, 08:50:35 pm
Quote
There's always "Super Nintendo Wars"

I wonder if a localization is really necessary. Anyone who's ever been curious about this game and waiting for a trans knows it as Super Famicom Wars. If it were an official release from back in the day I could see where the suits would say "but the potential customers will say 'what's a famicom?'", but since marketing isn't an issue I personally see no need to change the title in cases like this.

EDIT: Just a random idea, but have you thought about making the logo look like a tank rolling in? :D
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Xenesis on January 20, 2016, 09:42:30 pm
I wonder if a localization is really necessary. Anyone who's ever been curious about this game and waiting for a trans knows it as Super Famicom Wars. If it were an official release from back in the day I could see where the suits would say "but the potential customers will say 'what's a famicom?'", but since marketing isn't an issue I personally see no need to change the title in cases like this.

Necessary? Localisation is never specifically necessary. But it can make for a nice bit of professionalism in the project. The series itself is also colloquially known as "Nintendo Wars" as well as "Advance Wars".
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 20, 2016, 09:57:14 pm
Quote
Necessary? Localisation is never specifically necessary. But it can make for a nice bit of professionalism in the project.

It has nothing to do with professionalism.

Quote
The series itself is also colloquially known as "Nintendo Wars" as well as "Advance Wars".

Neither one is the official name of the series though (the "Wars" series). If we argue enough maybe he will call it "Super Difference of Opinion Wars". :P
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Bonesy on January 20, 2016, 10:07:20 pm
still waiting for IS to ruin the series with crappy mechanics brought in from FE Fates and Awakening so badly the series gets called advance whores
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 20, 2016, 10:11:04 pm
Quote
still waiting for IS to ruin the series with crappy mechanics brought in from FE Fates and Awakening so badly the series gets called advance whores

For some reason I'm reminded of how Konami ruined the Castlevania series by turning it into imitations of other games.

Blow-nami...
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Xenesis on January 20, 2016, 10:16:11 pm
It has nothing to do with professionalism.

Neither one is the official name of the series though (the "Wars" series). If we argue enough maybe he will call it "Super Difference of Opinion Wars". :P

Well of course. You seem to have a pathological hatred of localisation and I'm about as far from a purist as you can get.

still waiting for IS to ruin the series with crappy mechanics brought in from FE Fates and Awakening so badly the series gets called advance whores

But don't you want to pat Mr Yamamoto's glorious beard?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Bonesy on January 20, 2016, 10:18:27 pm
they make goth lolis in bearded flavor now, xen?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 20, 2016, 10:26:30 pm
Quote
Well of course. You seem to have a pathological hatred of localisation and I'm about as far from a purist as you can get.

I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't say that you are totally unjustified in saying that. I don't really care for localization unless it's to replace something that is an extrememly obscure cultural reference that no one outside the country of origin would ever pick up on. In some cases I wouldn't even approve of that. I'll probably just stir the flames by saying this, but when I want to enjoy something that happens to be of foreign origin I don't want it to pretend to be American.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ObiKKa on January 20, 2016, 11:24:25 pm
That's a nice looking screen for a draft title screen. I'm glad that someone is dedicating to working on the untranslated strategy SNES games whereas many translation groups tend not to like playing the strategy games at all!
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Gideon Zhi on January 21, 2016, 12:38:57 pm
I'll probably just stir the flames by saying this, but when I want to enjoy something that happens to be of foreign origin I don't want it to pretend to be American.

Localization isn't about something pretending to be American, it's about the experience. In the case of a J->E localization, it's about giving an English-speaking audience playing it in English the same experience playing a game that the Japanese audience would have had playing it in Japanese. Take the taiyaki vendor in Live-a-Live as an example. I left it as taiyaki because it would have involved changing a *lot* of compressed assets to do otherwise, but if a Japanese person was walking around a park and saw a taiyaki vendor, they'd know *exactly* what it was. An American guy? Not so much. If I'd really wanted to go all out I'd probably have changed Matsu into a hotdog guy instead, and this would have been a perfectly acceptable localization choice because the English experience to English speakers would have been would have been the same as the Japanese experience to Japanese speakers.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 21, 2016, 05:56:25 pm
Quote
Localization isn't about something pretending to be American, it's about the experience. In the case of a J->E localization, it's about giving an English-speaking audience playing it in English the same experience playing a game that the Japanese audience would have had playing it in Japanese. Take the taiyaki vendor in Live-a-Live as an example. I left it as taiyaki because it would have involved changing a *lot* of compressed assets to do otherwise, but if a Japanese person was walking around a park and saw a taiyaki vendor, they'd know *exactly* what it was. An American guy? Not so much. If I'd really wanted to go all out I'd probably have changed Matsu into a hotdog guy instead, and this would have been a perfectly acceptable localization choice because the English experience to English speakers would have been would have been the same as the Japanese experience to Japanese speakers.

This is just my opinion, but it seems unnecessary. When I watch a movie with subtitles I don't want references to American Gladiators and other things that weren't there before. I guess I just prefer accuracy and international flavors left in-tact.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Seihen on January 21, 2016, 06:35:24 pm
This is just my opinion, but it seems unnecessary. When I watch a movie with subtitles I don't want references to American Gladiators and other things that weren't there before. I guess I just prefer accuracy and international flavors left in-tact.

There's really no right answer to this since it's all a matter of preference, but I've worked on both sides of translation -- both technical (where insane accuracy is required and you translate every. single. nuanced. word) and entertainment (where you will localize words and phrases to the audience). For anyone interested in the art of translation, this article by Janet Hsu (localizer of the Phoenix Wright games) is a great read:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/11/21/localization-and-ace-attorney

While in my younger days watching anime (and before I spoke Japanese), I was an avid supporter of exact translations and wrote long, angry forum posts about how stupid the translation was for not being totally accurate. Now that I've grown up a little more and have some perspective on the other side of translating, I have to say that my opinion has changed. I've lost where I've found the quote over the years, but I remember reading an interview with a Japanese developer on how he felt about some of the localization changes made to his games. He said that "If I told a joke in my game, it's because I wanted the audience to laugh. If you need to tell a different joke to make them laugh, then that's the best choice."

Stories are about invoking feelings, not about the words they were written with.

If your preference is pure accuracy, then that's definitely understandable! I felt that way for years, but I guess my feelings have changed. That doesn't make me -- or anyone else -- any more right, but there's definitely a "know your audience" factor that should be considered when translating.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 21, 2016, 07:03:33 pm
It's def a matter of preference. Personally, I like foreign entertainment that isn't heavily localized because I'm more likely to learn something from it. If I don't know what gyoza or takoyaki is I can look it up and then I've discovered something new. I guess I don't really blame people for just wanting to read about burgers and pizza though. Most people seem to want things that are a little more obvious.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Seihen on January 21, 2016, 08:04:37 pm
I really think the food examples are bad ones, because it's something that can easily be explained as a simple word you don't know. There's a lot of American food that I've never even heard of, despite having spent the majority of my life in the states! Those are just word replacements -- and Japanese food DOES exist in the West -- so I think it's not really an accurate representation of the benefits of localizing.

More to the point would be something that requires a cultural understanding to get. Idioms are a prime source of this (the popular Japanese idiom meaning "I'm really busy" translates literally to "I'd love to borrow a cat's paw" [猫の手も借りたい]), but monster names and items in RPGs generally have a strong connection with either cultural norms or Japanese wordplays and puns. In that case, by not translating the name, the English-speaking user (often unaware that there's a reference at all) is getting an inferior experience to the Japanese player. For example, I just researched the roots and history behind all of the monsters-of-the-day used in the first series of the Sailor Moon anime for my blog. You could argue either way, but if you don't localize at least some of the names, the Western audience is getting less out of it than the Japanese audience did.

A famous example of this is the Octopus statue in Mother 2 which was replaced with a giant pencil. This was to keep a similar wordplay gag while at the same time making it something the western audience could more easily understand.

The reverse is also true in the old Commodore/NES game "Maniac Mansion." In the very beginning of the game, you need to get into the mansion by finding a key to unlock the front door. Where's the key? Under the doormat, of course! Many Japanese gamers -- where there isn't a running gag on TV or social norm of putting keys under your doormat -- weren't able to get past this screen because the had zero reason to check under the doormat when looking for a key.

So anyway, just figured it worth mentioning that there are more things that need to be considered than just simple word replacements. Cultural norms you grew up with also have a huge impact on your thinking of cause and effect and can greatly color the experience of the player. Just some food for thought!
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 21, 2016, 08:27:23 pm
We've already had this conversation before so it's probably best to not let it go much further. :)

A totally literal translation of an entire game is a bad one. A translation that erases all cultural identity from a game is also a bad one. Something in between is good. What more needs to be said?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Seihen on January 21, 2016, 08:41:12 pm
We've already had this conversation before so it's probably best to not let it go much further. :)

A totally literal translation of an entire game is a bad one. A translation that erases all cultural identity from a game is also a bad one. Something in between is good. What more needs to be said?

Agreed! I suppose I just find it a fascinating topic, and one that's pretty relevant with new, fan-run translations. As mentioned earlier in the thread, fans have their own established history and names for series which were never brought over to the West that may be best to conform to in some cases.

I dunno, just something I find interesting!
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: SunGodPortal on January 21, 2016, 08:57:49 pm
Quote
I dunno, just something I find interesting!

Me too, I just figured if it went on for too long it might turn into an argument or something. I'm very opinionated. LOL
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on January 23, 2016, 06:29:49 am
Just a quick question. I presume you have worked out the txt compression?? What did they use?? Was it LZSS or some form of it?

I'm interested if there are any common compression methods used on the SNES. It would take a long time to message all the people that had done translations and ask.....

Thanks,

D.

Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 27, 2016, 12:09:00 am
Just a quick question. I presume you have worked out the txt compression?? What did they use?? Was it LZSS or some form of it?

I'm interested if there are any common compression methods used on the SNES. It would take a long time to message all the people that had done translations and ask.....

Thanks,

D.
The text is not compressed (at least none that I've found), just encoded strangely (super bomberman 5 is just as bad, lol). The font and various other game graphics are compressed, however. This actually uses a unique combination of LZSS, and RLE in certain cases. I recently learned that Fire Emblem 4 uses the same or very similar compression method. I wish I would have known this before reverse engineering the compression. Luckily, it was fairly easy to reverse because it was mostly straight-forward and clean in execution.

I've been in touch with ddstranslation and he has shared some of his hacking notes and various translations by Honookatana. The notes are quite helpful and should put me many weeks farther ahead than I would have been otherwise. Big thanks to these two for all of their hard work!

I did this today...
Before:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_menu_before_1.png)
After:
(https://googledrive.com/host/0B7Lih2HxwoqqLS1nWmZXenFRbmkzcUtYcVpWMEN4dw/sfcwars_menu_after_1.png)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ObiKKa on January 27, 2016, 11:22:50 am
*A surge of excitement has jolted through my arms!* Nice font. I love it! Ooh, is that a subtle suggestion that you could be looking into retrieving the latest unfinished beta of an English translation patch for Fire Emblem 4 on this site here and complete it as you'd know all about the compression used therein?
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 28, 2016, 02:16:27 am
*A surge of excitement has jolted through my arms!* Nice font. I love it! Ooh, is that a subtle suggestion that you could be looking into retrieving the latest unfinished beta of an English translation patch for Fire Emblem 4 on this site here and complete it as you'd know all about the compression used therein?

The Font is a combination of the partial upper-case english font that the game already contained in the Japanese version-- and the font that ddstranslation was using for their translation. I modified the ddstranslation font to include shadows so the font is a bit more readable. More or less just merged the two.

Unfortunately, I have no motivation to work on Fire Emblem 4 at this point. ;) Maybe someone else will be able to do something with it.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on January 30, 2016, 07:29:37 am
Thanks for the info... I'm still working on great strategy expert WWII. I relesed a version that just has the menus.. I'm hoping to one day do the rest. It would be cool if there was a utill that could scan through a file and show up compressed parts etc.

D.

The text is not compressed (at least none that I've found), just encoded strangely (super bomberman 5 is just as bad, lol). The font and various other game graphics are compressed, however. This actually uses a unique combination of LZSS, and RLE in certain cases. I recently learned that Fire Emblem 4 uses the same or very similar compression method. I wish I would have known this before reverse engineering the compression. Luckily, it was fairly easy to reverse because it was mostly straight-forward and clean in execution.

I've been in touch with ddstranslation and he has shared some of his hacking notes and various translations by Honookatana. The notes are quite helpful and should put me many weeks farther ahead than I would have been otherwise. Big thanks to these two for all of their hard work!

Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on January 30, 2016, 11:11:55 am
Thanks for the info... I'm still working on great strategy expert WWII. I relesed a version that just has the menus.. I'm hoping to one day do the rest. It would be cool if there was a utill that could scan through a file and show up compressed parts etc.

Some games have pointer tables for all of the graphical assets in the game (Marvelous, and Super Bomberman 5 have pointer tables for this purpose). However, generally, there are not many games that use the exact same encoding method for the pointer tables. These can vary in complexity, arrangement, and completeness. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach besides learning how to read through the disassembly logs using a good debugger.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on January 30, 2016, 09:10:03 pm
Well i'm learning Assembly for the 6502 at the moment. I'm hoping that will help. Once i have done that it should be easy to move to 65816.

D.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on February 02, 2016, 07:21:57 pm
Well i'm learning Assembly for the 6502 at the moment. I'm hoping that will help. Once i have done that it should be easy to move to 65816.

D.

Good plan. :)

Here's a quick update:
I've been working some more today on my compression algorithm for Super Famicom Wars.

Here are some stats for the nerds:
Jp Super Famicom Wars Logo--
     Uncompressed: 7.33KB
     Original Compressed : 5.10KB
     New Algorithm: 5.45KB (Not a big deal because I've relocated this already)

ddstranslation's font--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     ddstranslation compression: 6.70KB
     New Algorithm: 2.35KB

Current Font set--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     Old Algorithm: 3.88KB
     New Algorithm: 2.90KB

Jp Font Set--
     Uncompressed: 12.0KB
     Original Compression: 8.09KB
     New Algorithm: 8.62KB

I suspect there are more optimizations to make, but I doubt I'll need to pursue them. I'm pretty happy with where it's at. For now.  >:D
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on February 06, 2016, 06:06:45 am
If you need anyone to do testing on a real SNES. I can help there :-)

D.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: ChronoMoogle on February 12, 2016, 05:54:52 pm
I am super pumped for this! Super Famicom Wars has been a couch multiplayer game for me and some friends which are really into Advance Wars  for years, but the translation will make it much more enjoyable for a bigger range of people :)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Andromeda on March 22, 2016, 08:04:24 pm
So, uh, any updates on the project? Really looking forward to this.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: DackR on March 23, 2016, 10:44:14 pm
Been working on this on-and-off over the last few months. Nothing significant to show at this point.

I've been debugging the VWF routine, but once that's all squared away, things should move a bit more quickly.

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've been distracted with other projects... ;)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: papermanzero on April 12, 2016, 09:03:03 am
Would you share the resources files (text font, psd file etc.) for the title screen?
I would like to use the same font and text for the title screen of the original famicom wars.
Or maybe (if it is not to much work) you can create the text for the original game, based on your resource files?

(http://famicomworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Famicom_Wars2.png)

There is already a hack: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2521/
However the text doesn't really fit to the perspective and the original logo.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: gc8tech on May 06, 2016, 05:32:49 am
Any updates?? Really looking forward to it :-)

D.
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: EightBitBeaver on July 11, 2016, 03:43:35 pm
New title screen looks great, and I like the look of the font for the in-game menus too. Can't wait to see the finished project :D
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Bumcang on August 14, 2016, 09:39:14 am
Super exciting stuff, how is it coming along DackR ? :)
Title: Re: [SNES] Super Famicom Wars Translation
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on August 17, 2016, 03:34:08 am
Ah yes, Super Famicom Wars. My most prized Super Famicom game since its one one of those super rare data cassettes from 1998.