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General Category => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Tharthan on November 28, 2015, 03:07:01 pm

Title: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Tharthan on November 28, 2015, 03:07:01 pm
I find that, as we continue to receive a giant cesspool of dross flowing in from development costing way too much, that extending the life of games which we already have becomes more and more important.

Some games, however, have a few problems, such as:

1. They have no true "ending".

2. They have little if any value in them for playing them again.

3. They have monotonous parts in them which one would not wish to experience again.

So extending the lives of those kinds of games can prove tough.

How do you typically extend the lives of the games which you already have?
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: jink640 on November 28, 2015, 03:17:26 pm
I usually make a challenge for the game. I recently tried going through MGS4 again with only melee and tranquilizer, it put another 10 hours into it.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: SunGodPortal on November 28, 2015, 03:28:17 pm
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How do you typically extend the lives of the games which you already have?

I've extended the lifespan of A Link to the Past by skipping the first part of the game. I changed it to where the games starts in the crystal phase with all of the treasure I would have obtained in the cave that's on the west end of the village. I'm sick of the first part of the game so now I don't have to worry about that preventing me from replaying it. I can start a new game and head straight for the good dungeons. This also prevents me from getting the heart containers that I would have obtained from the first few bosses, adding an extra bit of challenge.

Since it seems appropriate I'd like to mention Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness. I find myself playing this game again and again. Sure, I'll get burned out after a while but I always come back to it and beat it a few times before getting tired of it again. It has more staying power than most games because 1) it has 4 characters who play differently who each have their strengths and weaknesses with none of the characters being crappy, 2) each character has a few levels that are unique to their specific game (though I would kill to play a version where I could pick whatever character I wanted and then play through EVERY level), 3) the levels are varied in style and difficulty and some are not as linear as others and 4) each character (except for Cornell) has good and bad endings.

If more games had those qualities instead of filler, more games would have replay value. These days it seems like many games are so long that THAT prevents me from wanting to replay them. I think the longer a game is, the less likely I am to replay it. I'm also far less likely to replay games that are not action-oriented or that include any grinding.

EDIT: Many people might be turned off by one part in LoD though (and the same part in CV64). There's a part in Carrie and Reinhardts games where you have to haul an incredibly explosive item all the way across the stage and if you get hit by anything, jump or fall any distance and in some cases push yourself against something too hard you explode and die instantly. That means that during that very difficult part of the game there is absolutely NO room for error. Unless you master this part (which is difficult due to the N64's shitty controller) you will find yourself repeating it over and over again. There are times when I have probably played this part and died 20 or 30 times in a row. LOL I like the challenge though. In my eyes an easy Castlevania game is a bad one.

Interesting trivia: If playing LoD (don't remember if it works for CV64) and you save your game while you have the nitro, and then choose to start a new game in that slot, whatever character you pick will automatically start the game with the nitro, making the game impossible unless you go back and fix your save by restarting the nitro save and then saving again without the nitro in your possession. It's pretty funny.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Tharthan on November 28, 2015, 08:10:38 pm
I usually make a challenge for the game. I recently tried going through MGS4 again with only melee and tranquilizer, it put another 10 hours into it.

Well Metal Gear is neat in that way, because of its stealth and wealth of audio, dialogue etc.

If more games had those qualities instead of filler, more games would have replay value. These days it seems like many games are so long that THAT prevents me from wanting to replay them. I think the longer a game is, the less likely I am to replay it. I'm also far less likely to replay games that are not action-oriented or that include any grinding.

Ah, but the question is: do game companies think that getting developers to make such games will get them more wealth? If not, you aren't going to be getting any fat cats to be making those games. Your best bet would be to get in touch with one of those individual developer fellows, and maybe they would consider it.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: tvtoon on November 28, 2015, 08:14:31 pm
Play old Atari or arcade games... You don't extend, you suffer! :D
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: SunGodPortal on November 28, 2015, 11:44:57 pm
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Ah, but the question is: do game companies think that getting developers to make such games will get them more wealth?

At this point many developers probably feel pressured to make ridiculously long games because of how critics over the years have complained if a game has a more reasonable length ("It's ONLY 30 hours long! Boo hoo!" = bullshit). I'd take a short game designed to be replayed over and over to an overlong game that I will be lucky to make it through once any day.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Tharthan on November 29, 2015, 01:06:43 am
I'd take a short game designed to be replayed over and over to an overlong game that I will be lucky to make it through once any day.

How about Mario Bros.?

That meets your criteria.

And you can play that game forever.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: SunGodPortal on November 29, 2015, 01:13:56 am
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How about Mario Bros.?

That meets your criteria.

And you can play that game forever.

Too simple. Also, a game that doesn't end feels unrewarding to me.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Piotyr on November 29, 2015, 07:37:17 am
With so many games in my backlog I don't find replaying a game worth it. Why should I replay Deus ex when I can play Deus ex human revolution or some other games like it? This is why I skim guides to try to get everything I can out of a game in one go (Hopfully without spoiling myself). I would love to have a website that documents missables in every game without spoilers hahaha.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Synnae on November 29, 2015, 02:04:46 pm
With so many games in my backlog I don't find replaying a game worth it. Why should I replay Deus ex when I can play Deus ex human revolution or some other games like it? This is why I skim guides to try to get everything I can out of a game in one go (Hopfully without spoiling myself). I would love to have a website that documents missables in every game without spoilers hahaha.

Same here. I have way too many games on my list and I don't like wasting my time with the same game over and over (save for a few exceptions).

I just beat them once and move into another.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: VicVergil on November 29, 2015, 02:18:15 pm
I guess achievements/trophies can help.

Clearing 1-4 in SMW with a cheat disabling water and making spikes/floating platforms levitate, was hard in a fun way. Or clearing that level with the chainsaws with Mario's spin jump or Yoshi's jump without using the moving platform... Or pulling off out of the way scenarios in TRPG games. Maybe cheats to rebalance HP for enemies in Twilight Princess too... If Retroarch could have some capable achievement system built-in, it would be wonderful.

Right now the only available thing are some outdated emulators with a database filled with the worst type of achievements - the one where a notification pops after clearing every stage/boss.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Maeson on November 29, 2015, 02:19:48 pm
This is why I skim guides to try to get everything I can out of a game in one go (Hopfully without spoiling myself). I would love to have a website that documents missables in every game without spoilers hahaha.

Usually just typing "X game missables" gives me a link to some gamefaqs post that usually list them. Although of course, I haven't tried it with actual games that much.

Sorry for this wall of text:

As for me, depends on the game. As I can't get bothered with  most games that get released today, (Total lack of interest in most cases) I've being replaying games quite a bit since a year or two (thank god there's hundreds of them). Most of the time I just replay it as it is, as the last time I played it was ages ago.

Others I may try to cheat into the game to make it more interesting, like for example, after my first playthrough, each time I want to play Twilight Princess I use a cheat code to multiply the attack power of enemies and hazards, sometimes by two, others by three. It makes for a much more fun ride, and it makes all those special abilties you get even more useful, and it makes far more important to look for extra health or have some type of healing item so those rupies can be used more often. It also makes you want to improve with your bow/wiimote skills, as snipping enemies makes things better when one guy can take three, maybe even four hearts in one attack. Heck, I even use the chain and ball as a defensive tool because of the damage, as it can stop arrows around you while swinging.

Sadly I can't do this with every game. As a silly extra I can change Link's tunic colors as I go through the game for an extra superflous touch.

Other times, I try to play them in a different way. Maybe different characters/builds/classes, for example. For example Super Mario 3D World has 5 different playable characters, and each one is a little different, but with those small things you can play levels a in a different way, so it adds some extra value. And that's just a platformer, other games make each character feel different entirely.

Although lately i've been hacking around games so I can replay them with changes instead of handicapping myself. Mostly RPGs, as they are usually easy and fast to change around to give it a new flavour (Compared to design levels for a platformer or something like that). Not something that anyone would do, of course, but whatever.

Another example would be to use a different weapon, as sometimes it changes how the game is played, like for example Monster Hunter, where each weapon type makes you act in a different way, at least if you want to use them properly.

I played through Resident Evil 4 with only the mine launcher (once you get it), and my god, it was fun. Having to calculate the distance, which enemy should you aim to, so the mine can impact as many enemies as possible, and things like that. I guess it helped that I played the Wii version and the wiimote makes aiming so much more fun/faster, though.

There's also the (Maybe silly) idea that I usually don't 100% my games on the first playthrough so on the second I try all that I didn't touch before, so I have something to look for again.

Some games I never get tired about, like Mole Mania or Donkey Kong 94 for the Game Boy, or Vandal Hearts for the PS1. There's something in them that gets everything right for me and make me want to replay them again and again.

And then there are some that can take thousands of hours out of you. I'm looking at you, Nipon Ichi games. I would get mad at you, but when you let me make weird things like rabbits being magic overlords wielding old guys as weapons, I just can't.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: SunGodPortal on November 29, 2015, 11:49:11 pm
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Same here. I have way too many games on my list and I don't like wasting my time with the same game over and over (save for a few exceptions).

I just beat them once and move into another.

Interesting. I tend to think that if a game is not worth replaying, it's not worth playing to begin with. I don't want something disposable.

I know I talk about it all the time, but Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness gave me something that I had been searching for that no other games were delivering. At least not the entire package that I was looking for. The atmosphere, story (it has more story than most Castlevanias yet it doesn't get in the way), music, variety, challenge, everything made me want to return to the game again and again. It's one of my all time favorite games and I hate the N64 with a passion! If I only played through that game once I don't think I could live with myself. LOL
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Maeson on November 30, 2015, 04:35:03 am
Interesting. I tend to think that if a game is not worth replaying, it's not worth playing to begin with. I don't want something disposable.

There are "one time games" that can be worth to play once. It's kind of silly to have it after playing it, even more if it's a physical copy, as you won't go through it again, but the experience may be worth. I don't know, Phoenix Wright games are more or less "one time games" (Even if I replayed them and I still had fun), but I recommend them.

I find games with lot's of supposed replayability but that make all the effort possible so you don't want to play them again far worse, either by being annoying in some regard, making the entire thing pointless thanks to a crappy/pretentious ending or something like that.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: SleepyFist on December 07, 2015, 07:25:23 pm
I play games on a cycle, I put most of my effort into 3-4 at a time while dabbling in others, for most, once they're finished they go back onto the shelf to wait until I manage to forget the plot and gameplay mechanics enough to make replaying worth it.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: magicalpatcher on December 07, 2015, 10:15:50 pm
I don't know, Phoenix Wright games are more or less "one time games" (Even if I replayed them and I still had fun), but I recommend them.

I don't think the Phoenix Wright games are "one time games". They're interactive novels and I'd argue that good novels in general are worth rereading. It's just that you probably won't reread them immediately after you finish.

As far as extending the lives of games, self-imposed challenges are a fun to do when replaying a video game. For example, I'm currently attempting a 1% run of Metroid Fusion, where I try to beat the game without getting any energy or missile tanks (except for one nearly unavoidable missile tank).
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Maeson on December 08, 2015, 03:51:46 am
I don't think the Phoenix Wright games are "one time games". They're interactive novels and I'd argue that good novels in general are worth rereading. It's just that you probably won't reread them immediately after you finish.

I don't think that neither (As I said, I played them more than once and I like the series quite a bit), I was talking about the general opinion, as it was something i've heard a few times in forums and such, and I remember reviews (both in english and spanish sites) always pointing at the "there's no replayability" argument too.

And they have a point, these games can't be replayed like most other genres. Things are going to be always the same, with very little variation. You can't impose challenges, or use different characters to affect the gameplay, etc...

The only real reason to replay them is just because you want to experience them again, (maybe trying to see things in a new angle now that you know what's going on), which is perfectly good reason, as they are pretty entertaining and fun. But it's not something many people would do (outside the fans), It seems.

Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Bregalad on December 08, 2015, 03:53:06 am
I played each of the Phoenix games 3 times but unfortunately I now know everything by heart and I really don't see how a fourth play trough could be any fun, considering the third was much more boring than the first two.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: VicVergil on December 08, 2015, 01:38:39 pm
considering the third was much more boring than the first two.

Maybe much more verbose, but boring? The last case (which had Alexander O. Smith return for translation, after doing the first game) was one of the few times I remember staying up all night playing a handheld game, it was that intense.
I found the second game almost unbearable though aside from a few moments and the final case, though I wouldn't blame Shu Takemi for that considering the awful deadlines he had to work around.

But the best way to experience Phoenix Wright games would be with an emulator with save states, to view all the hilarious alternate dialog for failure.
Or alternatively, the original JP GBA difficulty where the saves are temporary and when Phoenix's bar runs out you restart the whole case starting from checkpoints (when the games say "to be continued").

Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Tharthan on December 08, 2015, 08:36:25 pm
The cats at Ace Attorney Online make new cases for the reasons Bregalad gives. And let me tell you, their cases are out of this world fun. They are also quite, quite challenging.

I would advise anyone who is itching for more Ace Attorney to check them out.
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: shadowmanwkp on December 10, 2015, 03:38:45 am
The cats at Ace Attorney Online make new cases for the reasons Bregalad gives. And let me tell you, their cases are out of this world fun. They are also quite, quite challenging.

I would advise anyone who is itching for more Ace Attorney to check them out.

If you're a fan of ace attorney, there's an indie release planned for the 18th called "aviary attorney". It pretty much is ace attorney with birds. The interesting part about the game is that one of the developers claims  there are multiple paths and much less restrictions on your actions, like where to go  (https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/3w4dqx/aviary_attorney_gets_new_trailer_and_release_date/cxtedko) (but therefore also more trial and error)
Title: Re: Extending the lives of games
Post by: Maeson on December 10, 2015, 03:53:38 am
Maybe much more verbose, but boring? The last case (which had Alexander O. Smith return for translation, after doing the first game) was one of the few times I remember staying up all night playing a handheld game, it was that intense.
I found the second game almost unbearable though aside from a few moments and the final case, though I wouldn't blame Shu Takemi for that considering the awful deadlines he had to work around.

I think he means playthroughs, not games. As in "The third playthrough was boring, so a fourth one wouldn't be fun".

Or at least that what I understood, of course.

And let me tell you, their cases are out of this world fun. They are also quite, quite challenging.

I would advise anyone who is itching for more Ace Attorney to check them out.

Personally, Phoenix games are best when get crazy. So much fun.

In fact that's why I loved the movie. It get's REALLY silly and over-the-top. Even a friend of mine which isn't the biggest fan of the series was having a blast. And I had very low expectations, mind you. Thankfully it was dubbed to spanish, for some odd reason.

If you're a fan of ace attorney, there's an indie release planned for the 18th called "aviary attorney". It pretty much is ace attorney with birds. The interesting part about the game is that one of the developers claims  there are multiple paths and much less restrictions on your actions, like where to go  (https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/3w4dqx/aviary_attorney_gets_new_trailer_and_release_date/cxtedko) (but therefore also more trial and error)

That' seems pretty cool!
Title: .
Post by: Chpexo on December 10, 2015, 07:20:05 pm
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