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Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: Bregalad on September 30, 2015, 05:38:29 am

Title: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on September 30, 2015, 05:38:29 am
I did a full sound restoration hack for all 3 of the SNES -> GBA ports, however, now that I have done and updated both FF4 and FF5 several times, FF6 is now the oldest and less maintained of the series, and the one which sound the worst, in the way that it is not faithful to the SNES. Ironically it's the most successful hack too in terms of popularity.

There is the following issues with current version (1.1) of FF6 sound restoration :

I'm a perfectionist so I feel bad for leavnig all those problems in my hack. All those could be fixed rather easily but it would take me a lot of time. The problem is I think that with over 30 thousands downloads the old version of the hack is very widespread and the new one would have some problem to take on the old one. I don't know, what do you guys thinks ?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: vivify93 on September 30, 2015, 06:46:11 am
I'm of the opinion that it's always, 100% worth it to update your work. Who knows, maybe another 30,000 people will download the update to your mod?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Rodimus Primal on September 30, 2015, 07:45:07 am
I say absolutely. There were times I considered leaving my work alone and I continued to update anyway. I'd also make a news article about it so that people will know you've fixed the issues about it. Not everyone will hear about it right away but at least it gets the word out.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Granville on September 30, 2015, 08:23:39 am
I want to say that I don't want to come across as pushy and ungrateful for anything you've done. But since you asked then I assume you want to know- Yes, absolutely. IF you feel comfortable putting the time and effort into it and want to do it, then i'd absolutely welcome it. I have the utmost respect for you and your work. With your hack (which I use alongside the color restoration), FF6A becomes an actually pretty great port with some nice bonus content.

I'm particularly interested that you mentioned audio panning and stereo. I was aware that you removed stereo sound in your hack, which the readme mentions. Is your comment implying an update could be made to restore this now? That would be well worth it. I know the GBA only has one speaker, but I usually use stereo headphones or similar when playing GBA games. It's also cool that you mention lag could be further reduced as well, even with the improved sound quality.

One question- is there anything that can be done about the way the music loops during the final boss' forms? On the SNES, the music seamlessly crossfade to the new track as the boss switches forms, waiting for the track to finish before swapping to the new one. On GBA though the transition is more immediate, it just loads the new track as soon as the form is destroyed and doesn't wait for the song to finish. I assume it's not easy to fix, but I thought i'd ask if you knew anything.

The only reason I can think of not to do an update is if you had plans to fix the sound in other GBA ports of SNES games or something like that. Or of course if you don't want to. Real life also always takes precedence.

I don't think worrying about whether enough people download the newer version should be a factor in the decision. If you're really that concerned about exposure, you could contact one of the staff members here when it's done and see what they can do. Maybe they'll give it an exclusive news article separate from other hacks. But either way I still wouldn't let the worry that it won't get as much attention as the original release stop you from doing it.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on September 30, 2015, 09:36:08 am
I agree with Granville, if you want to put the time and effort into it then I say yes, it's absolutely worth it. I've loved your restoration patches, but as you mention there are still some imperfections and it would be awesome if you fixed them to make the patch up to par with the others. It's actually been a while since I played the game, but if you did update the patch I would definitely pick the game up again to experience the patch.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on September 30, 2015, 12:43:52 pm
Whoa thank you very much guys for your supports, I didn't expect people to be so motivated about a possible update. So yes, I guess I'll have to do it ! It's a lot of work but I don't care since it is work I enjoy doing.

About the final bosses, unfortunately I do not think I will be able to make them with continious music like the original game did. I suppose the sappy sound engine do not support that - if it does FF6A was not programmed with that in mind so it would mean a lot of hacking to make it use that and that would go way beyond what I can do at the momment.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on September 30, 2015, 08:17:24 pm
To be honest I was considering asking you about it, but I think you mentioned in one of the readmes that because of the time and effort these patches require you don't intend to do more for any other games or something along those lines. Unless I misread it?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: bradzx on October 01, 2015, 01:12:29 am
Well.... there is word for Daniel Byran.   YES!  YES!  YES!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on October 01, 2015, 04:20:52 am
To be honest I was considering asking you about it, but I think you mentioned in one of the readmes that because of the time and effort these patches require you don't intend to do more for any other games or something along those lines. Unless I misread it?
I wrote the readme straight after putting a lot of effort into a hack, so I don't feel like taking another one right away. One or two years later, though, it's a different things, and perfectionism starts to resurface.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on October 18, 2015, 03:02:52 pm
So good news guys, it seems doing this is technically possible ! (It might seems obvious but actually wasn't, considering FF6 leaves much fewer RAM unused as FF4 and FF5).

The frame rate will unfortunately continue to drop in some cases, like when calling Flare or Holy for example, however it will reduce less often than in the original GBA version, as the sound engine will be faster (but not as fast as FF5 - do to the requirement to use slow WRAM instead of fast IRAM).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Gedankenschild on October 19, 2015, 07:43:08 pm
Nice! :cookie:
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on October 21, 2015, 12:33:58 pm
Cools!!! I want to hear it.

You're restoring all the sound effects? Totally boss dude!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on December 03, 2015, 10:08:28 am
So the ~75 musical songs are now converted, the 261 sound effects are remaining !
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on December 03, 2015, 10:14:54 am
God thank you. I love the SNES sound effects and hate the GBA's paltry imitation of them.

Go, Bregalad, go!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Midna on December 03, 2015, 06:18:26 pm
As long as you don't end up deleting any of the new sound effects that were introduced (if there were any? Not sure). Your FF4 Advance restoration is pretty great, but I was a little disappointed that it ended up removing the airship engine in the intro.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Rand on December 03, 2015, 07:28:31 pm
Neat. I'll be happy to be a user of the updated files.  ;D Thank you, Bregalad.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on December 04, 2015, 04:15:59 am
As long as you don't end up deleting any of the new sound effects that were introduced (if there were any? Not sure). Your FF4 Advance restoration is pretty great, but I was a little disappointed that it ended up removing the airship engine in the intro.
Wow, I can't belive someone noticed ! Effectively I did that because I didn't have data for those sound effects in the SNES ROMs, and I tought that anyway it was only the intro, and having an intro with no sound effects was perfectly sensible.

I have no idea if they added sound effects in FF6 but I'll note your remark, if there's anything GBA only I'll make sure to keep it.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on December 06, 2015, 08:39:48 am
I notice that the GBA version doesn't fade in the same places as the SNES version...had you looked into fixing that or is there just no way?

Often, in the GBA version, the music is supposed to fade out but simply continues until the music changes to something else. I dunno....have you had this problem or do I have my sound configuration messed up? :D
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Midna on December 06, 2015, 10:07:30 am
It's not just you. The music just stops playing where it would fade out in the SNES game. Now whether that's due to programming issues or just developer laziness, I don't know.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on December 06, 2015, 02:30:07 pm
If you would be more specific about the problem than "in some places" that'd help. However I am afraid I can only change the music data itself, and not how it is controlled by the game, so I cannot directly change which music or sound effect is played when, I can only alter the data for the music and sound effect themselves. Which also means I cannot control when music starts, stops or fades.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on December 06, 2015, 04:40:05 pm
I figured as much. Oh well, it's no biggie.

Just once again reiterating my support for this project, wish I could bump it but I already posted.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 05, 2016, 09:24:32 am
You know, not even the PC version has all the correct sound effects.

 :angel:
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: SC on January 05, 2016, 10:55:34 am
I support this too! I've been expecting it anyway after the last time you updated FF5.

Also a good chance to fix the intro logo sequence synchronization with the music.
Might be more obvious if you compare the unpatched version side by side with the patched version.

As for the no fades, I think the GBA version had that problem originally ... ?  :huh:

 :thumbsup: :beer:
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Kallisto on January 07, 2016, 07:58:01 pm
The only thing I noticed was a little noticable slowdown caused by the music patch or the color-uplift patch, but either one of them is causing something.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 07, 2016, 08:51:55 pm
Vanilla FF6A has slowdown (e.g. some of the Blitzes and Bushido techniques), so it might just be the original. I think the old sound restoration tried to fix some of it though...?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Granville on January 07, 2016, 11:46:37 pm
Bregalad's FF5 Advance sound restoration fixes the slowdown (it's mentioned in the documentation). I don't know whether his FF6 hack does the same, but I don't see anything in the readme about it. If it does fix any, there's still plenty left over. It has been a while since I played vanilla FF6A (I always use Bregalad's hack now), so I can't recall if it was better or worse before, but there's still a good deal of lag present. His patch shouldn't have introduced new slowdown though, it's supposed to reduce CPU cycles used by the sound engine and should actually (if anything) run better.

The original FF6 Advance had quite a bit of lag. Even slow down in towns (especially noticeable when running and using speed boost relics). There was also lag during some of the more visually intensive spells and skills in battles.

But i'd say the worst (and most constant) slowdown occurs when riding vehicles on the world map (chocobo, airship and underwater). The town and battle slowdowns are just temporary spikes. But the world map vehicle slowdown is consistent, I actually wonder if these parts are actually locked at a slower pace. The normal non-vehicle world map parts seem to run just fine (which also uses a mode7 equivalent), it's just during the vehicle parts where the horizon and/or sky is visible.

I've also found that the lag spikes can adversely affect the responsiveness of the controls. Especially noticeable in the world map sequences. It does sound like Bregalad wants to fix the battle slowdown with his new patch, but i wonder if anything can be done to help some of the world map mode7 slowdown.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Lilinda on January 08, 2016, 05:56:45 am
Likely significant recoding would need to be done. At this point, it's not really worth it to most folks.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 08, 2016, 11:42:01 am
Also a good chance to fix the intro logo sequence synchronization with the music.
I am unsure about which synchronozation you are talking about. Synchronization has been one of the major issues with version 1.0 and had to be reworked for version 1.1. I'll attempt to do my best for version 2.0.
Quote
Vanilla FF6A has slowdown
Yes, just like vanilla FF5a. I can only fix those who are introduced because the CPU time exceeds the time that is available in one video frame, I cannot fix other slow down effects due to bad programming, those are especially present in FF4a but also in FF5a, I am not sure if any are present in FF6a.

Quote
I don't know whether his FF6 hack does the same
Version 1.0 and 1.1 uses a mono version of the original Nintendo sound mixer, but uses a higher sample rate, so overall it takes about the same CPU time than the original FF6a, that is between 25-40% of the CPU for the music engine.

Version 2.0 will use the same variant of sound mixer used in the latest FF4a and FF5a patches which will greatly reduce CPU consumption, to 15-25% of CPU time.

It is very difficult to predict how much slow down this will actually fix, but very likely it'll fix at least some of them, like my FF5a patch does. The time the sound engine takes is extremely variable, as it depends on the # of active sound channels, the frequency of the samples being played, the length of the loop points of the said samples and the reverb parameters among other things. That is why the CPU usage of the sound engine is so volatile and variable.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: SC on January 08, 2016, 01:22:49 pm
I am unsure about which synchronization you are talking about. Synchronization has been one of the major issues with version 1.0 and had to be reworked for version 1.1. I'll attempt to do my best for version 2.0.

I mean synchronization between the intro logo animation and the intro logo music. Just comparing side by side it is very evident that your old patches broke it.
It was also synchronized in the original Super Famicom version and it creates an interesting visual/audio effect for the player (was very probably intended to
be like that by Yoshinori Kitase and Nobuo Uematsu), so that's why I  think it is important for this patch.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 08, 2016, 03:05:39 pm
When the line of fire gets drawn through the middle of the screen, the plagal cadence on the organ (in a diminished chord?) should be in its "rise." Then, as the logo "floats" up, the cadence "falls," and then the organ is silent.

Next, as soon as the picture of Terra riding the Magitek Armor appears in the background, the plagal diminished (?) cadence repeats, holding the "rise" until the "Copyright Square X year" message appears below, and we have our title screen, punctuated by the music.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: SC on January 09, 2016, 01:42:49 pm
When the line of fire gets drawn through the middle of the screen, the plagal cadence on the organ (in a diminished chord?) should be in its "rise." Then, as the logo "floats" up, the cadence "falls," and then the organ is silent.

Next, as soon as the picture of Terra riding the Magitek Armor appears in the background, the plagal diminished (?) cadence repeats, holding the "rise" until the "Copyright Square X year" message appears below, and we have our title screen, punctuated by the music.

I hope this helps.
Yeah, exactly that, probably! Sorry for lacking the musical jargon myself.  :-[
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 10, 2016, 01:49:32 pm
Speaking of synchronization, could someone send me a .sav file near the end of the game, so I can check the synchronization of the ending music? I never beat the GBA version of FF6 myself, so I lack such a save file.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: SC on January 10, 2016, 02:38:10 pm
I don't think I have one readily available right now (would have to dump it, really), but doesn't the gamefaqs site have savefiles?

EDIT: Here's some... http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/930370-final-fantasy-vi-advance/saves

PS: Wow, spellchecker tries to change "gamefaqs" into "gamecocks", what the hell? LOL :o
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 10, 2016, 03:47:12 pm
Here's some... http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/930370-final-fantasy-vi-advance/saves
If I'm not mistaken those aren't .sav files, they're rips from a physical GBA pack. I don't know if there's a way convert them.

Fortunately, I just so happen to have a .sav file near the end of the game. Second file is right at the end of Kefka's Tower, ready to kick some Kefka arse. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip30nvvi94pfr5d/ff6ae.sav?dl=0
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 10, 2016, 03:56:03 pm
Thanks !
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 10, 2016, 05:14:46 pm
No problem, glad to help.

Y'know, I recently started playing through FF6A without the sound restoration just out of curiosity, and I actually liked some of the original Advance music. For example, I think Kids Run Through the City actually is pretty nice, as well as the drums in the Veldt. Decisive Battle and Cyan's Theme aren't half bad either.

Of course, you still have the tracks like the battle theme, Devil's Lab, Protect the Espers, and Searching for Friends (not to mention the sound effects) which definitely need the improvement so I'm not trying to discourage the restoration, I'm just wondering if there might be a way to keep the parts of the original advance that sound good enough and fix up the rest with the SNES counterparts.

This probably isn't feasible, but I wanted to throw it out there.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 11, 2016, 03:27:16 am
It is perfectly feasible, however it is not the path I have chosen. The earliest version of FF5 sound restore (version 1.x) were like that, but finally I've decided removing everything from the GBA version. Why? Because it's completely subjective what sounds "better" or "worse" than the SNES version. So even if some parts might actually be better in some contexts, I decided to add all the SNES sounds back in, with no exception.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 11, 2016, 10:53:11 am
Understandable. I'd be more of a sound enhancement than a restoration in that case. It'd be the kind of thing I'd just do for myself if I knew anything about the GBA sound engine, but sadly I don't.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 19, 2016, 02:57:06 pm
Fortunately, I just so happen to have a .sav file near the end of the game. Second file is right at the end of Kefka's Tower, ready to kick some Kefka arse. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip30nvvi94pfr5d/ff6ae.sav?dl=0
I'll reiterate my question:

could someone send me a .sav file near the end of the game, where the party is not ridiculously weak and where kefka can been defeated effortlessly, so I can check the synchronization of the ending music? I never beat the GBA version of FF6 myself, so I lack such a save file

I have something else to do than trying to beat him again and again with a totally under levelled, empty item inventory, bad equipment and helpless party.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 19, 2016, 03:05:54 pm
Eh, I'll get to work on it and be back w you in 4 hours.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 19, 2016, 03:42:16 pm
totally under levelled, bad equipment and helpless party.
I was not aware that level 40s with endgame equipment and items  is "underlevelled" and "helpless" by your standards. Several characters know Ultima (Terra, Locke, and Edgar, just to name three), just spam it and you should win easy.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 19, 2016, 04:02:52 pm
Well maybe, but then Kefka kann one hit KO character whenever he wants to, and can inflict status alimtents to all 4 character simulatenously.

I did not mean to be offensive - they might be levelled enough for a normal playthrough, but here I don't care about the battle itself : I'd just like to test the ending's timing, and will probably have to do it at least a dozen of times, so if I should do anything else than spamming strong attacks and healing, it's bothersome.

The fact that Kefka has a super annoying intro that is 5 minutes long is also annoying (but that's not your fault) - at least in FF5 you could save after the super-annoying ExDeath intro, so you could resume your save and go to the final battle right away - something I did at least 30 times for my previous hack - and I was glad to have my save where the characters were powerleveld I would basically just spam holy/flare/bahamut, heal and win every time in a matter of minutes.

Maybe you should indicate which characters you recommand me to use for the battle, because if some of them are powerhouses but I don't have them in my party, that's not very useful.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 19, 2016, 04:10:17 pm
If you're using visual boy advance-m as your emulator, Bregalad, this file ought to work.

I've just beaten Kefka. Put this in the same folder as a rom file named "FF6.gba" and load it up using the savestate menu.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tcw1qqf0ozurpqm/FF61.sgm (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tcw1qqf0ozurpqm/FF61.sgm)
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 19, 2016, 04:17:18 pm
Apologies if my response sounded mean, just the way you worded it rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm not sure how well savestates will work, but if it doesn't then Terra, Shadow, Edgar, and Celes should be a great party. All four know Ultima (along with plenty of healing magic) and have pretty high magic stats (especially the girls). Terra can also Dualcast, though she is a bit lacking in levels. Cyan is also very high leveled, though his magic is notoriously low so he's more of a fallback.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 20, 2016, 06:22:40 am
Apologies if my response sounded mean, just the way you worded it rubbed me the wrong way.
No, it's my turn to apology, I sounded like a complete badass, but that is because I was pissed of loosing so much time to try and fail to beat Cefka.

@Spooniest I did not want to use savestates, because I want to test the timing on the real hardware. I run into many cases where VBA slowed down and not the real hardware, and as such the synchronization timings are different. For example the intro in the snow do not duration the same length on the real hardware and on VBA, it is slower on VBA, and if the music is synchronized correctly in GBA it is cut off in the middle on real hardware. On the other hand, if the music is synchronized correctly on real hardware, it ends too soon on VBA. In order to avoid this problem for the ending, I'd use only the real hardware as a reference.

Nevertheless I could load your savestate, and use the real save you made previously, if you did make one and if you are more prepared than with TheZunar123's save.

In the end the best would be a real save file (not save state) where the save is cheated and everyone is a powerhouse, so I can kick Cefka's butt quickly (since I'll have to do that a couple of times to test the ending's timings).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 20, 2016, 06:28:59 am
Well all I did was load Zunars save and beat Kefka, but I am a master Blitzman so there's that ;)

I'm snowed in today so I'll run the game and get you some cool stuff.

January 20, 2016, 11:38:25 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wysr5xadn7urxfr/FF6.sav (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wysr5xadn7urxfr/FF6.sav)

You have a party that lacks Gogo and Umaro (they are on the airship). You have several Ragnaroks. Everyone is level 99. You are saved at the last save point in Kefka's Tower.

I'll warn you, this was done very quickly so I didn't really stop to grind for magic. Nobody even knows Curaga. I'd send Terra into the final battle, as she knows Arise. Also send Locke, cuz he's got the Valiant Knife and the Master Scroll equipped. That'll give you roughly 40,000 damage per attack with him. I'd also give Shadow my reccomendation, as you possess 3 pinwheels, and he's got a Memento Ring, which might make the Goddess Tier waste one of her Reposes on him.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 20, 2016, 12:26:13 pm
Oh thanks. I managed to beat the game and measured the events with a stopwatch with TheZunar's save anyway. The trick was to use only the 4 strongest character, equiping 3 of them with ribbons, and NOT using any reserve characters, which are too weark.

But I guess this could be useful for the next time, so I have to check if the events are effectively synchronized.

Also @TheZunar's, your save file of the Phantom train is useful, because this weird sound effect plays when the train stops and I have to test this, so thank you very much even if your ending save would not have been useful, your save file still is useful. Also, I apologize for having acted like an ass before.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 20, 2016, 12:30:29 pm
Dagnabbit.

Oh well, that's 5 hours I spent playing FF6. Could be worse. :D
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 20, 2016, 01:03:54 pm
Also @TheZunar's, your save file of the Phantom train is useful, because this weird sound effect plays when the train stops and I have to test this, so thank you very much even if your ending save would not have been useful, your save file still is useful. Also, I apologize for having acted like an ass before.
Awesome! I'm glad it helped you more than expected. Let me know if there's some other spot in the game you need to test (e.g. the opera), I'd be happy to provide another save. And it's alright, no hard feelings.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 20, 2016, 02:50:33 pm
Hey, Breg, if you're interested, these are the codes I found for the EU version. They are Gameshark codes. They were here. (http://www.emudesc.com/threads/gamesharks-para-todos-los-final-fantasy.118620/)

Spoiler:
This one must be on for any codes to work:

910AD66CB9B3
DAD2BA7FA747
1BC8302DE782

This code makes every battle give you 100,000 EXP, and sometimes the enemies in Narshe drop Ragnaroks, but mostly Smoke Bombs.

C6ED873217FD
38C7E7668753
C6ED873217FD
64EC0EB5A48E
06875D32C7F7
C6ED873217FD
6C2C2C1676DD
06875D32C7F7
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: FAST6191 on January 20, 2016, 03:03:00 pm
For the record VBA can generate real saves well enough, and in doing so take and convert between all the various formats gamefaqs and such might like to use . File -> export -> battery save is what you want. It should work for most flash carts, though AKAIO (and probably wood as well) in conjunction with the EZ 3 in 1 might add an extra header depending upon the version.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Piotyr on January 20, 2016, 03:35:19 pm
Bregalad ever think of porting this to the PC steam release? Its based on the GBA version so much so that its got a copy of the GBA port inside it! :).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Kallisto on January 20, 2016, 04:21:40 pm
[Snipped]

I had a idea, but the MSU type patch really limits things currently with hardware. Personally I would not play FF6A on a rig just for the MSU-type of music. Hope one of these days someone will try to patch it up to consoles.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 21, 2016, 03:23:37 am
Dagnabbit.

Oh well, that's 5 hours I spent playing FF6. Could be worse. :D
Your save file is very useful! I could kick Cefka's ass much faster, and will probably have to do that a couple of times more, as the music is still not prefectly synchronized. Thank you!

Quote
Bregalad ever think of porting this to the PC steam release?
Nope. I wasn't even aware of this release, and anyway, a sane person wanting to play FF6 on the PC will emulate the SNES verison.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 21, 2016, 03:28:22 am
Your save file is very useful! I could kick Cefka's ass much faster, and will probably have to do that a couple of times more, as the music is still not prefectly synchronized. Thank you!

Not a problem! Thank you for doing what I wish I could do, and fixing the audio in this game!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Reiska on January 21, 2016, 07:39:52 am
The steam release doesn't need an audio restoration anyway, it uses the original SNES tracks.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 21, 2016, 07:53:12 am
It could use the sound effect restore, as all sound effects that aren't music are still from the gba version. But this is (ahem) starting to sound very involved. So I think it's unlikely.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 21, 2016, 07:15:58 pm
Benn lurking in this thread for long enough to drop a post.
I am waiting for this update to combine it with the colour patch and finally give the FF franchise a try starting with this GBA port and entry in the series. :)

Best of luck with the remaining sounds!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 21, 2016, 07:57:26 pm
Personally I would recommend playing the SNES version for your first playthrough since it runs at a better framerate and would still ultimately have better sound quality (the restoration patch can't get it exactly the same but it'll be close), plus you won't have to wait. The only thing the GBA version really has over SNES (save for the different font and menus) is the ability to sprint freely, but that can easily be fixed with patches.

But that's just my two cents. The restoration will be awesome, especially for people like me who own a GBA flash cart so we can play FF6 on the go, so not trying to knock it or anything. I just think SNES would give you a better first impression of the game.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 21, 2016, 08:04:48 pm
Every gamer has their own style of doing things though. If the dude wants to try the GBA version cuz they've researched and found it to be the most complete, I wouldn't blame them...and it is easier to run than the PC version. The PC version has better music (for the moment) and lacks the slowdown of the gba version, however.

Until the patch is done, I'd say why not give the PC version a shot? I played it and it's definitely Final Fantasy VI.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 21, 2016, 08:15:52 pm
Every gamer has their own style of doing things though. If the dude wants to try the GBA version cuz they've researched and found it to be the most complete, I wouldn't blame them...
I know, I'm just throwing out my personal recommendation.

Also, you can't seriously be suggesting playing the PC version. I've heard complaints about saves being constantly corrupted and other terrible things. Just take a look through the Steam reviews and you'll see.

I would NOT recommend playing the PC version as your first playthrough of the game. Even if it wasn't your first playthrough, I would highly recommend NOT playing it, period. Seriously, just go emulate the original SNES version or wait for this patch to be done.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 21, 2016, 08:28:20 pm
I dunno bout no saves getting corrupted. Never happened to me.

It's fine. I don't see what's wrong with the bloody thing.

January 21, 2016, 08:30:07 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
But I do notice that FF fans tend to whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine a whole lot.

Not saying that's what you're doing but I do notice that a lot of the fandom tends to complain about things that don't bother me, with few exceptions.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 21, 2016, 08:56:01 pm
I haven't played the PC version, so I can't say anything from experience, I'm merely pointing out what other people have been saying. There's enough complaints and bad reviews out there to keep me from buying it, and FF6 is very high on my list of favorite games. I'll stick with the Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition (and ofc this restoration) thanks. If it goes on sale for a few bucks sometime I might pick it up, but until then I'm not interested.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 22, 2016, 12:11:12 am
Now it's my turn to apologize if I came off as a bit snide; I'm quitting smoking.

So uh, sorry if I was kinda harsh or something.

Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 22, 2016, 03:41:01 am
Best of luck with the remaining sounds!
Thanks! The only reason the sound effects takes so long is because whoever designed them loved to abuse the sound engine and overflow the normal pitch range to get weird effects on purpose. They play ridiculously high notes and/or pitch slides of ridiculously big range (something like 8 octaves or more is common) and/or ridiculously fast. This is extremely hard to get on GBA, I'll probably pre-render many sound effects (that is just record them and play them back instead of re-creating them).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 22, 2016, 05:57:16 pm
Now it's my turn to apologize if I came off as a bit snide; I'm quitting smoking.

So uh, sorry if I was kinda harsh or something.
Nah, it's okay. I probably sounded whiny myself, so let's let bygones be bygones, shall we?

Breg, let me know if there's a certain part of the game you still need to fix; I've started keeping backups of my saves just in case. Also, if you'd like someone to test on actual hardware, I have a GBA flash cart and I'd be happy to test it for you.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 26, 2016, 03:44:57 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgXrVO7xR9U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgXrVO7xR9U)
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 28, 2016, 08:43:14 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgXrVO7xR9U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgXrVO7xR9U)
Pssh, that's nothing. Try this. https://youtu.be/kq0L6Ymxusc
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 28, 2016, 09:29:45 am
Pssh, that's nothing. Try this. https://youtu.be/kq0L6Ymxusc

No excuse for doing an Uematsu chord progression wrong. Fox-San wins.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: ShadowOne333 on January 28, 2016, 10:31:54 am
Thanks! The only reason the sound effects takes so long is because whoever designed them loved to abuse the sound engine and overflow the normal pitch range to get weird effects on purpose. They play ridiculously high notes and/or pitch slides of ridiculously big range (something like 8 octaves or more is common) and/or ridiculously fast. This is extremely hard to get on GBA, I'll probably pre-render many sound effects (that is just record them and play them back instead of re-creating them).

Oh awesome!
I can't wait to try out the update. :)
Best of luck!

----------------------

On a side note, guys, stay on topic please. :P
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 28, 2016, 02:46:26 pm
No excuse for doing an Uematsu chord progression wrong. Fox-San wins.
Fox-San is too fast. And no idea what you mean by doing chord progression wrong, it's perfectly fine.

----------------------

But yes, to get back on topic... Are you using the same opera stuff from the old version, Breg? That was one thing that really bugged me, in the old restoration Celes's voice is so deep she doesn't even sound like a woman. It pretty much ruins the entire scene. >_>

One other question, are you planning to make the patch compatible with the U and J versions just like you did with FF5?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 28, 2016, 05:02:51 pm
But yes, to get back on topic... Are you using the same opera stuff from the old version, Breg? That was one thing that really bugged me, in the old restoration Celes's voice is so deep she doesn't even sound like a woman. It pretty much ruins the entire scene. >_>
Right now I'm not using anything but yes I was planning to use pretty much the same as the 1.1 version. Celes' voice was originally a different pitch, but I changed the pitch so it would end up in the same key as the SNES version. Since I needed to modify the tempo anyway for synchronization purposes, I would change the pitch as well.

If it is too low for a women, it means it is also too low for a women on the SNES, so it's not my fault.

Quote
One other question, are you planning to make the patch compatible with the U and J versions just like you did with FF5?
Yes, I am planning to, whenever possible, however the E version has the priority. If it is easily portable to the U and/or J version I'll do this, but if I encounter any major problem I'll pass.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 28, 2016, 09:54:12 pm
If it is too low for a women, it means it is also too low for a women on the SNES, so it's not my fault.
If you're implying that Celes's original SNES voice is too low, I disagree. I think the problem is that the SNES couldn't handle actual voice, so when you try to apply the same pitch to an actual voice it ends up getting distorted. Seriously, go play the versions side by side and you'll see what I mean (you can easily look up the SNES scene on YouTube, and I have a save at the opera house if you need one).

Bottom line, in my opinion the old restoration voice does not fit Celes AT ALL, so it completely butchers the scene. I mean, it's your project so your choice, that's just one issue I have with it (assuming you don't change anything).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 28, 2016, 09:57:46 pm
I do not agree with you Zunar, it just sounds like a Contralto to me. Most people aren't familiar with Contralto range, as Contraltos are very uncommon. My Choir Director in junior high school was a Contralto. That's how I know.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 29, 2016, 01:16:53 pm
If you're implying that Celes's original SNES voice is too low, I disagree.
You were the one implying that. I just set the tune so it would be the same as on the SNES, and you said it was too low. I only lowered the pitch by 2 or 3 semitones I don't remember exacly, but it's not like if I made it half an octave lower than the original.

Quote
I do not agree with you Zunar, it just sounds like a Contralto to me.
It sounds like a normal alto to me.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 01:54:31 pm
I just set the tune so it would be the same as on the SNES, and you said it was too low.
The SNES version is perfectly fine because it's not a "real" voice. It hits the high notes and everything just fine.

My question is, how did you know what level it is on SNES? I don't know much about how music works in video games, so comparing it to a real voice isn't really making sense to me. I just don't see how applying the same pitch as the SNES makes it sound so deep.

(For that matter I know even less about actual operas, so maybe there's nothing wrong with the voice in that sense. But speaking as someone who knows next to nothing about operas and has never seen a real one, to me the voice does not fit at all and ruins the scene. I just do not see how Celes could have that kind of voice, she seems way too young to have a voice that deep. Vanilla FF6A is pretty much exactly what she should sound like in my opinion)
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 29, 2016, 02:03:54 pm
Zunar, you are saying that a real singer singing in Italian sounds worse than a GBA synth going "la la la."

You really are looking a gift horse in the mouth, in my humble opinion.

Edit: This is what you're talking about yes? (http://youtu.be/D5s3hqKuuxI)

The aria begins at 11:30. I think it sounds perfect apart from some background hiss.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 02:12:14 pm
Zunar, you are saying that a real singer singing in Italian sounds worse than a GBA synth going "la la la."

You really are looking a gift horse in the mouth, in my humble opinion.
Not really "worse", I'm just saying that in my opinion it doesn't fit Celes. I just cannot see that voice coming out of her, which is what I'm finding problem with. EDIT: Yes, that is what I'm talking about. Maybe I just don't like Italian voices or something.

At the end of the day though, it's just one small part of the game and I can easily swap my save around or mute the audio during the song, so carry on.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 29, 2016, 02:16:02 pm
It does kind of drive home how silly the idea of an imperial general singing opera all of a sudden is...but isn't that the point of the Opera Scene at the end of the day?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 02:29:39 pm
I think it's just me being shocked that someone would mess with the voice I always liked so much. Hearing such a different voice coming out of her in the scene throws it all off for me and changes my opinion from a "hey, Celes actually has a nice singing voice" to "oh god why, my ears, noooo"

(Yes, I am saying I prefer the GBA synth over the Italian voice, that's my personal opinion. Hell, I like the original SNES over the voice. But as I said, there's a volume switch for a reason, so feel free to ignore my complaints.)
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 29, 2016, 04:41:07 pm
The opera's lyrics are in Japanese, not in Italian.

Quote
Vanilla FF6A is pretty much exactly what she should sound like in my opinion)
As far I know, all the original SNES FF6, the original FF6a and my hack are on the same pitch. If one of them is to low to fit Celes, then all 3 are. I don't understand your logic, it doesn't make a difference whether the voice comes from a real recording or a synth.

For some reason they changed the pitch of the Aria when doing it with the real orchestra, but my personal opinion is that the original SNES pitch is the "real" intended pitch from Uematsu, and as such should be preferred.

EDIT : Now that I listen to it again I can see what you see, the voice sounds unnatural, not only because the pitch, but probably because we can hear it was edited, as such it sounds worse than if a female singer actually sound at that pitch. Unfortunately, unless you can lend me an orchestra I can't do much about it :) I could keep a higher pitch but then it wouldn't sound the same as the SNES... so something's going to be wrong in all cases.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 04:55:20 pm
No offense, but I find it hard to believe all three are the same pitch. SNES and GBA, sure, but not all three. As I mentioned I have little knowledge of music, but to an ignorant person like me it definitely sounds like the pitch is too low for your hack.

But I'm not going to complain any more because I don't want to sound like a whiny kid or anything, so go with whatever you feel is right.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 29, 2016, 05:13:30 pm
No offense, but I find it hard to believe all three are the same pitch. SNES and GBA, sure, but not all three. As I mentioned I have little knowledge of music, but to an ignorant person like me it definitely sounds like the pitch is too low for your hack.

But I'm not going to complain any more because I don't want to sound like a whiny kid or anything, so go with whatever you feel is right.

Pitch means "what key."

I believe you mean "equalization," as in bass, middle, treble frequencies.

All versions of the Aria are in the key of D major.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 05:47:16 pm
Pitch means "what key."

I believe you mean "equalization," as in bass, middle, treble frequencies.

All versions of the Aria are in the key of D major.
You're probably right, I would not be surprised if I've been using the wrong terminology. Not the first time it's happened and definitely won't be the last. At least Breg seems to see what I've been talking about.

Unfortunately, unless you can lend me an orchestra I can't do much about it :) I could keep a higher pitch but then it wouldn't sound the same as the SNES... so something's going to be wrong in all cases.
Trust me, I would if I could. Personally I wouldn't mind if it wasn't the same as SNES so long as the voice was better, but I don't want to tell you what to do or cause you any more trouble, so just go with what you feel is the best solution.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 29, 2016, 06:30:13 pm
So what you're saying is that the recording of the Aria being used in the currently downloadable version of the music restore patch is improperly mixed?

That, at least, we agree on...but is it possible to re-eq tracks like that individually or is the eq adjustment global, as in, affecting all tracks in the game at once?

If the tracks can be re-equalized individually then that'd be possible to do, I suppose, but I have no idea if this is the case or not.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 29, 2016, 08:08:55 pm
While we're still talking about the opera, I have another question. If you go to 8:58 in the video Spooniest linked, there's a kind of echo after Draco's "O Maria" lines, is that supposed to happen? It seems a little weird to me.

(The voice itself is good, no problems with it in and of itself, just the echo)
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 30, 2016, 09:02:04 am
I don't understand your comments. All I can do is do effects on the existing recodings (such as chaging pitch/tempo/volume). I cannot do anything else, so your comments doesn't make any sense. You guys seem to assume I was there in the studio recording the orchestra and have the ability to mix it to my liking. This of course isn't the case, I just have the CD recording and I can only edit that recording.

The only other realistic option I'd have would be to record myself singing and using the SNES synth to accompany that, but I don't think if this'd sound any good.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 30, 2016, 09:06:19 am
Ok so all you can do is plug in the tracks, you have no way to re-equalize them?

That's expected, I suppose.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 30, 2016, 09:32:09 am
So for example, if you wanted to increase the pitch of just Celes's voice, it would also increase the pitch of the music? Is that what I'm understanding?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 30, 2016, 09:50:45 am
So for example, if you wanted to increase the pitch of just Celes's voice, it would also increase the pitch of the music? Is that what I'm understanding?

If you just increased the pitch of one of the voices (in this case the lead vocal), then it would be dissonant with the rest of the piece.

Pitch is the note that's being played, not any quality of that notes tone.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 30, 2016, 09:51:56 am
Well - obviously - I just have the recording of the whole thing, not of individual parts.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 30, 2016, 03:01:59 pm
Well - obviously - I just have the recording of the whole thing, not of individual parts.
Gotcha. Welp, guess there's not really much that can be done to fix it. Thanks for explaining and putting up with my complaining earlier, at least. :P

Just in case you missed it earlier, I've been keeping backups of my saves, so let me know if there's a spot in the game you need to fix so I can be ready for it and send you a save.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on January 31, 2016, 08:28:15 am
Just in case you missed it earlier, I've been keeping backups of my saves, so let me know if there's a spot in the game you need to fix so I can be ready for it and send you a save.
Maybe if you have one I'd be interested at a save at anytime where you can easily access the Returner's hideout (if possible after the 1st time, so that I don't have to deal with the story).

Another thing I'd be interested is a save where there is the 2nd world map music (the one which is a little "depressing") when you are in the world of ruin, but before there is the 3rd world map music.

That way I can test how well the sound effects and music blends together :)

Also one last place I'd be interested to check is the begining of the phantom train (I have your save from the middle of the phantom train, but I'd like to check the begining of the scene to be sure - I don't remeber exactly, but there is another special sound effect playing there I believe).

I guess that's all. Normally everything should be fine in theory but I'd rather verify.

PS : Also if you guys are interested in bet-testing a version with no opera and only about 1/3 of the sound effects there, just ask.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on January 31, 2016, 09:04:19 am
I sent you a pm but it did not seem to have saved to my sent items folder so...

Uh, I'd like to beta test.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: TheZunar123 on January 31, 2016, 12:35:37 pm
Here ya go, Breg. First save is just before going to the sealed cave, meaning you have the airship, so pretty much the entire World of Balance is open to you in case you want to test other things besides the Returner Hideout, so go nuts. Second save is right at the beginning of the World of Ruin. Cid is hungry, so feel free to feed him. Or not. And finally, third is right outside the Phantom Forest after getting Cyan. I had to start from scratch for this one and sped through the game, so my equipment isn't optimal there. And excuse the names, they're supposed to be intentionally stupid (except one which you'll notice :P)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w39r20nd54jl6mb/ff6a-soundpatch.sav?dl=0

Also I'd be down for testing. I mentioned before I have a flash cart, so I'll also be testing on real hardware. Two birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Chronosplit on March 07, 2016, 09:45:25 am
Bumping because it just updated.

Anyone know if 2.0 still pops in emulation?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: ShadowOne333 on March 07, 2016, 10:36:41 am
Bumping because it just updated.

Anyone know if 2.0 still pops in emulation?
I'm interested in knowing if the 2.0 update adds the remaining sounds that Bregalad was asking for in the OP. :P

Edit:
This is the changelog for 2.0:
Quote
Since version 2.0 of this hack, everything has been done again from scratch. All songs and sound effects were converted directly from the SNES sound data into something the GBA understand, instead of songs being reproduced by hear or taken from various sources like in previous version. In other words, the music is 1:1 to the SNES original. Thus not only the sound effects are restored as well, but the music sound better and more accurate to the SNES original.

...

2.0 (march 6th 2016) : Re-did the hack from scratch, all music and SFX are 100% coming from SNES data, new faster mixing engine and sounds more faithful to SNES original sound. Opera is the same as in version 1.1.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Chronosplit on March 07, 2016, 01:42:48 pm
Just took a little tour.  This update compared to the last is like night and day.  It's so vastly improved that this time around, I recommend that everyone needs to update right now no matter what the circumstances.  Truly beautiful work.

Insofar all popping and such problems have been fixed.  I haven't encountered the out-of-sync bug either.  This is using VBA-M, so perhaps those bugs with VBA only exist with the original?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Granville on March 07, 2016, 11:35:25 pm
I've been testing this on Android using Retroarch's mGBA emulator core (which incidentally is supposedly more accurate than VBA), seems very impressive so far. Nicely done again Bregalad!

Besides the obvious improvements in sound quality, I have also noticed a definite and huge reduction in the framerate problems that plague this game. Particularly the "mode7" parts when riding the chocobo, which previously had massive lag. While I haven't gotten far enough to test it, this should also affect the airship and submarine parts as they use the same mode7 effects. Now the GBA port appears to run about as fast and smoothly as the SNES version in these sections.

Granted I am using an emulator and not real hardware, but emulators have always accurately replicated the game's slowdown before this patch was applied.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on March 08, 2016, 02:57:30 pm
[...] seems very impressive so far. Nicely done again Bregalad!
Quote
Just took a little tour.  This update compared to the last is like night and day.  It's so vastly improved that this time around, I recommend that everyone needs to update right now no matter what the circumstances.  Truly beautiful work.
Thank you very much guys !

Quote
Besides the obvious improvements in sound quality, I have also noticed a definite and huge reduction in the framerate problems that plague this game. Particularly the "mode7" parts when riding the chocobo, which previously had massive lag. While I haven't gotten far enough to test it, this should also affect the airship and submarine parts as they use the same mode7 effects. Now the GBA port appears to run about as fast and smoothly as the SNES version in these sections.
Not as smooth as the SNES unfortunately. I'm working on version 2.1 (or maybe 2.01), which should be the exact same, but faster. The problem is that I run into new synchronization issues for the intro and the ending, and I have to speed up the music ridiculously fast - because when programming the GBA they did werid stuff I don't really understand myself - probably they programmed it so that it lags, and then decreased the # of frames to wait, so that when I fix the lag, the games ends up doing things too fast.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Chronosplit on March 08, 2016, 03:59:17 pm
I'm working on version 2.1 (or maybe 2.01), which should be the exact same, but faster. The problem is that I run into new synchronization issues for the intro and the ending, and I have to speed up the music ridiculously fast - because when programming the GBA they did werid stuff I don't really understand myself - probably they programmed it so that it lags, and then decreased the # of frames to wait, so that when I fix the lag, the games ends up doing things too fast.
It sounds like they programmed it to time with the slowdown on purpose as a "fix."  This isn't the first time they did that out of laziness; a reverse thing was done with Final Fantasy Tactics on mobile where they sped up the animations of certain effects as a "fix" for slowdown.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on March 08, 2016, 04:19:17 pm
Yeah, I see what you mean, it's hard to describe in english but we're talking about the same thing :)

What horribly lazy sloppy programming. So because of this "fix", my patch ends up being faster than the SNES version in some cases.

So yeah, now version 2.01 is in the review queue. Hopefully I didn't introduce any bugs with the extra framerate fixes. Normally everything should be fine, but yeah.... maybe keep a backup of version 2.0 around, just to be sure.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: LeathSeraph on March 27, 2016, 10:16:47 am
Hi, I saw you have listed making the patch compatible with U.S. and Japan versions as things to possibly do in the future.

Wanted to ask how much work this might actually be.  I have a Japan cart, but have only found Japanese rom hacks that create hard type versions, adding in new monsters, etc. rather than polishing up the graphics/music.  I became really interested in this patch after seeing videos on YouTube showing comparisons.  Was the process of getting the FFV sound restoration really involved or is that not a comparable example and FFVI would be even more work?

Any advice/info to help point the way I wouldn't mind seeing if there's a way to poke around and getting the patch compatible with the Japan version.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on March 28, 2016, 04:14:59 am
I guess I'll have to investigate this. For FFV advance it was a really simple change, so this is why I released it compatible. With FFVI the major problem is the opera which takes a lot of space - space which was left unused in the (E) version which is 16 MB. However the (U) and (J) versions are only 8 MB, so I guess I'll have to convert the SNES opera songs 1:1 if I want to support those versions, there's no way arround it really. Or expand them to 16 MB, but that misses the point.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: LeathSeraph on March 29, 2016, 11:26:50 am
Setting aside any hesitation of requiring the rom size to be expanded to accommodate the patch, would that be the simplest solution to allow for the patch to be maintained as is (i.e. not requiring the opera song to be switched out)?  Don't have an EU cart to check, but does the patch end up taking just the blank space at the end of the EU rom or did your modifications clear out a lot of space throughout the rom?

Not sure if you have compared the different versions yet, but aside from additional languages, did Square/Tose leave things mostly in the same spots or did things get shuffled around between US/EU/JP?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on March 29, 2016, 03:53:28 pm
Don't worry I'll look into it, normally almost nothing changes between versions exept text.

I'm already working on a version 2.1 that will fix a few bugs.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: LeathSeraph on March 29, 2016, 07:53:14 pm
Thanks for the feedback.  Looking forward to seeing what you find out!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 04, 2016, 05:37:16 pm
So, it's up there almost working. The (J) version definitely works fine. The (U) version however, has a little problem, very likely a RAM clash somewhere, that makes the game freeze at some places. I tried to locate the RAM clash, but couldn't find it. I'll have to look harder. Also, the opera is back to the SNES version but with a surprise, and the ROMs are not extended. I'll also make a (E) version with the same opera, so in the end it'll be exactly like FF5 Advance with two patches for (E) version, and one for (U) and (J) versions.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: LeathSeraph on April 05, 2016, 08:14:36 pm
Good to hear there weren't any show stopping issues and things mostly went smoothly.  :thumbsup: Looking forward to the next update!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 10, 2016, 03:03:04 pm
**The 2.1 version has now been submitted in the update queue**

All 3 regions of the games are supported, but bugs have also been fixed and the speed slightly improved, so even if you're playing the regular european verison, it's worth updating.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: John Enigma on April 10, 2016, 08:48:55 pm
**The 2.1 version has now been submitted in the update queue**

All 3 regions of the games are supported, but bugs have also been fixed and the speed slightly improved, so even if you're playing the regular european verison, it's worth updating.
Whoa! That was...




...unexpected. Congratulations man!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Kallisto on April 10, 2016, 10:58:03 pm
EDIT:
Oh I see there is different versions for different regions based on the amount of RAM.

This is actually a good thing the E version has a lot of space considering the fact there is other RHs like color/font etc that could fit in there too (least I hope).

Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: LeathSeraph on April 11, 2016, 07:40:42 am
Looking forward to the update!
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Special on April 11, 2016, 11:40:31 am
Is there maybe a youtube video or something similar that shows the difference between the orchestra and non-orchestra versions of these patches? I'm suffering from choice paralysis here :/
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 11, 2016, 11:44:27 am
The only difference is the opera, the rest is identical. If you want to hear real orchestra in opera, even if the music changed a little bit (in harmonization) (something that some people see as a crime (a point of view I perfectly understand) ), then use the orchestral version. If you want something like SNES, use the non orchestral version (the voices are still improved from the SNES version - but the music harmonization hasn't changed).
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2016, 11:49:05 am
The only difference is the opera, the rest is identical. If you want to hear real orchestra in opera, even if the music changed a little bit (in harmonization) (something that some people see as a crime (a point of view I perfectly understand) ), then use the orchestral version. If you want something like SNES, use the non orchestral version (the voices are still improved from the SNES version - but the music harmonization hasn't changed).
So basically:

Sanza orchestra = SNES version?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 11, 2016, 12:15:09 pm
Sanza means "without," unless I'm mistaken.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Special on April 11, 2016, 02:17:27 pm
The only difference is the opera, the rest is identical. If you want to hear real orchestra in opera, even if the music changed a little bit (in harmonization) (something that some people see as a crime (a point of view I perfectly understand) ), then use the orchestral version. If you want something like SNES, use the non orchestral version (the voices are still improved from the SNES version - but the music harmonization hasn't changed).

Thanks, I think I would prefer the original SNES version more, but a side by side would still be cool if anyone happens to have that part recorded, and willing to share.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 11, 2016, 02:26:33 pm
I say just install the orchestral version; after all, you do know what the snes music sounds like already.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: John Enigma on April 11, 2016, 02:38:26 pm
^Agreed 100%.

If you make it for all regions, better.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 11, 2016, 03:04:19 pm
Thanks, I think I would prefer the original SNES version more, but a side by side would still be cool if anyone happens to have that part recorded, and willing to share.
You're overthinking this. We're talking about like 5 minutes in the game, which usually easily reaches 25 hours of gameplay. Also those have next to no interactivity.

(^ probably the fact I had to play that part hundred of times to check the synchronization also biased me toward thinking this ^). I also developed a phobia in which I'm constantly fearing that the video and audio are getting out of sync again.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: ShadowOne333 on April 11, 2016, 05:12:26 pm
Thanks, I think I would prefer the original SNES version more, but a side by side would still be cool if anyone happens to have that part recorded, and willing to share.
Here you go:

SNES Original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEuf9ZSJrdg&t=0m11s

Sound restoration with Opera and Orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEONvW42CI&t=1m41s

(Take into consideration the vid is from v1.1, 2.1 has a LOT of synch issues fixed, the sprites move with the vocals in such an amazing way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, Nintendo has a lot of explaining to do if the restoration is compatible with real hardware.
I am amazed at how such music quality could fit into the ROM.

I'd like to ask Bregalad if he could do some sort of quick tutorial as to how to do a single sound/sound restoration from scratch.
From opening the ROM, to dumping the song and soundfont, to restoring the SNES music into the GBA one.

I want to give M1+2 a try to be specific, perhaps even the SMA titles too, but I am at loss as to how to use GBA Mus Riper properly. :/
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Special on April 11, 2016, 05:51:30 pm
Not a fan of those new vocals, yikes.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 11, 2016, 05:58:56 pm
It's a matter of opinion. I enjoy them a lot.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Kallisto on April 11, 2016, 08:42:10 pm
Holy Guacamole!!! I heard better singing of Celes in other Opera versions.  It sounds like a whale going full derp.

Just sayin.  :-\
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: magictrufflez on April 11, 2016, 08:46:08 pm
I am personally not a fan of those changes, but I think updating it if you feel like it was in line with what you wanted to do is a good policy.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: John Enigma on April 11, 2016, 09:15:28 pm
Seems like some people are not liking the tone of the changed songs that were made.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 11, 2016, 10:28:20 pm
That's what an opera singer sounds like you uncultured swines

Italian opera singing is full, rich, and projective...they did not have any of these things you call "microphones." They had to sing very very loud to be heard in an Opera House.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Chronosplit on April 11, 2016, 11:00:02 pm
Reminds me slightly of a music history class I took in college, when we got to opera I was the only person who enjoyed it (before and after the class).  ::)

Ah well, everyone has their own personal tastes and that's perfectly fine. :P
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Tater Bear on April 11, 2016, 11:15:08 pm
Here you go:

SNES Original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEuf9ZSJrdg&t=0m11s

Sound restoration with Opera and Orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEONvW42CI&t=1m41s

(Take into consideration the vid is from v1.1, 2.1 has a LOT of synch issues fixed, the sprites move with the vocals in such an amazing way.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, Nintendo has a lot of explaining to do if the restoration is compatible with real hardware.
I am amazed at how such music quality could fit into the ROM.

I'd like to ask Bregalad if he could do some sort of quick tutorial as to how to do a single sound/sound restoration from scratch.
From opening the ROM, to dumping the song and soundfont, to restoring the SNES music into the GBA one.

I want to give M1+2 a try to be specific, perhaps even the SMA titles too, but I am at loss as to how to use GBA Mus Riper properly. :/

Wow. I like it.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: John Enigma on April 11, 2016, 11:57:52 pm
That's what an opera singer sounds like you uncultured swines

Italian opera singing is full, rich, and projective...they did not have any of these things you call "microphones." They had to sing very very loud to be heard in an Opera House.
First of all, I know what opera is. How do they manage to keep their voices at a higher decibel level?

Second of all, don't call me an uncultured swine. I'm sorry, but that's where I draw the line there.

Moving on with the topic.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 12, 2016, 01:51:52 am
I apologize. I've been around small children lately, and been watching the first Toy Story movie as a result. That is a line from said movie.

It really wasn't intended as a serious recrimination, please don't be upset.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 12, 2016, 02:48:40 am
I'd like to ask Bregalad if he could do some sort of quick tutorial as to how to do a single sound/sound restoration from scratch.
From opening the ROM, to dumping the song and soundfont, to restoring the SNES music into the GBA one.
I already documented the Sappy GBA sound format (http://www.romhacking.net/documents/462/). What else would you like me to document?
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Special on April 12, 2016, 09:22:50 am
I apologize.

You really don't have to, you said nothing wrong, that dude just needs to get off the internet or grow some thinker skin, I mean seriously.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Spooniest on April 12, 2016, 09:54:13 am
What do I lose by apologizing?

It's not a big deal.

But the topic at hand is the FF6 Advance Sound Restoration patch, which I think (in whatever opera variety one desires) goes well with Novalia Spirit's Color Restore Patch.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: John Enigma on April 12, 2016, 10:28:24 am
Hey, Mr. Bregalad.

Remember when you said to me via a PM that I sent you, about the orchestral intro version of the European version of FFVIA, among other things?

You said something that for me to implement that orchestral part to the American version I need to expand the ROM. Can you show me how to that? Is this special orchestral part that you said separate from this patch, or is it already integrated?

What do I need to do?

You also said that it would kill the purpose of this patch. Well, to me, imho, makes sense. It makes sense to me.

You can send me a PM if you want.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Chronosplit on April 12, 2016, 12:12:36 pm
Hey, Mr. Bregalad.

Remember when you said to me via a PM that I sent you, about the orchestral intro version of the European version of FFVIA, among other things?

You said something that for me to implement that orchestral part to the American version I need to expand the ROM. Can you show me how to that? Is this special orchestral part that you said separate from this patch, or is it already integrated?

What do I need to do?
IIRC you can do this with any Hex Editor, however I'm not sure how much more space is needed.


Quote
You also said that it would kill the purpose of this patch. Well, to me, imho, makes sense. It makes sense to me.
It kills the purpose because afterwards it tends to be a bit of a tossup on the rest of the IPS patches' application process working or not (and possibly flashcarts depending on things).  At least if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Kallisto on April 12, 2016, 03:31:29 pm
Well if you want to go there...I only pointed it out because her singing is pretty much undecipherable. I could not understand what exactly she was saying, hell I didn't even she was even singing Italian.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: Bregalad on April 12, 2016, 03:40:23 pm
Well if you want to go there...I only pointed it out because her singing is pretty much undecipherable. I could not understand what exactly she was saying, hell I didn't even she was even singing Italian.
Nobody's singing in Italian. The opera version is in Japanese - the normal version has no real lyrics it's just "la la laaa".

@JohnEnigma : I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: Is it worth updating my Final Fantasy VI GBA sound restoration ?
Post by: KyleRXZero on April 13, 2016, 08:47:51 am
SNES Original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEuf9ZSJrdg&t=0m11s

Sound restoration with Opera and Orchestra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEONvW42CI&t=1m41s


That sounds awesome! Really like this Bregalad.  :thumbsup: