Hmm. Well, I didn't read click and read all of the links (there were so many) so I'm just going to assume that I know what's going here.
I think videos of Nintendo games is fine, but if someone is making money off of the videos with ads or something, then Nintendo should throw the book at them. If not, then Nintendo should butt out and stop being dicks.
Videos of ROM hacks? Same as above. If someone is making money using Nintendo's IP then they should be crucified. If they're not, why would they care? It wouldn't be in their favor to prosecute. They would only waste money and lose fans/customers.
Others still have argued that for certain games a full play through might be a turn off, or make for a wait until it hits the bargain bucket (or Steam sale in the modern world) mentality; the games most likely to be hit being the relatively linear story games that Nintendo does tend to lean towards.
"The Last of Us" was this right here for me. I really wanted to know what the story was about, and it sounded like a great plot. Alas, the gameplay didn't seem like something I'd be interested in.
So I watched someone else play it on Youtube, and Naughty Dog lost out on a purchase.
So, yeah, I do think this does happen, but not as often as game companies pretend.
Pretty much a reason to stop using YouTube especially if you need it to make money. I doubt this is the end of these legally shenanigans. Nintendo does have the right to do this but I wonder if it will pay off in time.
This can only hurt Nintendo (their own actions) and the fact that they can't see that shows how clueless they are.
Am I the only one that doesn't think this is a horrible move by Nintendo?
Mario Maker is going to introduce a whole new group of people to game modding -- so people are going to go online to see videos of custom levels, only to discover that they can do it for free without buying Mario Maker at all. Makes perfect sense to me to try to take those videos down.
As for this "hurting" them -- I don't think their demographic really is as virtuous as the handful of people here. The handful of ex-Nintendo fans who refuse to buy their system out of principle is not going to break their business. Most gamers don't give a shit.
If Nintendo wasn't stupid, they'd realize that this isn't going to stop anyone from hacking their games.
My point is that they gain nothing from this.
They piss people off
We've already established that hacking is niche so it's not because of a realistic source of competiton.
Yeah, but it will "hide" ROM-hacking from people who don't already know about it, thus preventing increased piracy.
Yes it's niche because most people don't know about it. But they'll find out about it once MM is released and these kinds of videos are still floating around YouTube.
When they see stuff that was made without Mario Maker, they'll be like "wtf do I need Mario Maker for?"
Also, the coversong in a bedroom analogy is a poor one. A better one would be if all the masters from a record company's history were to have leaked online, and folks were using them extensively to release products ranging from slightly to very different.
I say just hit them harder than ever. Create a rom hacking company which makes badass rom hacks of Nintendos IP's. People will LOVE the new romhacks and support the work. Nintendo will shut down the rom hacking company thus hunting lots of fans and hurting their own image. People then hate Nintendo and Nintendo goes out of business because no one will support them anymore.
The 21st century does not allow "hiding".
I'm not sure whether I should laugh at the "spitefully run a business into the ground just to piss off nintendo fans" idea just at how ridiculous it is... or if you were being sort of serious.I can't answer to the original intent, but when I read that, my initial understanding was that it was a direct reference to what Napster did. I don't think it's realistic, but mostly because the precedent of Napster is one most people would not want to follow. We're not all as badass as that guy who started Napster (Justin Timberlake, I think, right? ;) )
"Free games for everyone" / "Free video posting for everyone" -- these are nice concepts, but they don't help with Nintendo's bottom line. The idea that it's free promotion for them is absurd -- that's the same argument people were making about music piracy back in the Napster days -- and we all know it was BS.
Nintendo taking steps to secure their IP by whatever means -- even if it ends up pissing off some pirates who are already stealing from them -- I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the problem is.
And let's not kid ourselves by saying that game reviews are trustworthy.Reviews are perfectly fine if one is an intelligent human being that can read and understand that different people have different point of views. The only reviews that are untrustworthy are exclusive reviews that come out while everyone else is still embargoed.
*snip*
YOU CANNOT PIRATE A GAME THAT IS NO LONGER SOLD AT RETAIL IN THE ORIGINAL FORMAT.
I can't tell you how many times I bought an album and beforehand, I heard the band saying "This is our best album yet", only to be horribly disappointed with my purchase. A few years ago I made a rule for myself: Never buy an album that I have not already heard. When a new album comes out that I'm interested in, I download it and if it's worth buying I buy it, if it sucks I delete it and think about how lucky I am that I didn't waste my money on it. I'm not going to pretend that my specific example here is "right" but that is how I protect myself from being duped into promoting garbage.
you wouldn't download a dogPlease
Nintendo's nostalgia machine will eventually break down completely. The very same people they depend upon to buy the same recycled ideas year after year aren't going to be around to support them forever, and the facts are everywhere to support this notion.
This is a potential problem with any purchase, isn't it? I mean if you're saying that reviews can't be trusted....
How can I know whether or not <insert food product or restaurant here> will be any good until I buy it for myself and find out?
Or <insert movie here>?
Or <insert soap here>?
Or <insert anything you purchase here>?
Nintendo's nostalgia machine will eventually break down completely. The very same people they depend upon to buy the same recycled ideas year after year aren't going to be around to support them forever, and the facts are everywhere to support this notion. This blatant action to shit on the fanbase is a prime example of how desperate they really are.
My point is that they gain nothing from this.
Don't get me wrong. I pirate shit all the time. I don't have a problem with it. The only real difference between us is I don't feel the need to rationalize it. I don't like fooling myself.
Some games have trial versions.
You can also rent games -- or at least you could... is that still a thing these days?
I don't know. You can rationalize your actions all day if you want. But at the end of the day you're violating IP laws. Whether or not you feel you're justified to do so means little outside of dealing with your own personal conscious.
Don't get me wrong. I pirate shit all the time. I don't have a problem with it. The only real difference between us is I don't feel the need to rationalize it. I don't like fooling myself.
taking down these videos does more harm than good because the videos themselves do more good than harm.
The videos do more good... for who.... Nintendo? How do they at all benefit from them?
I KNOW I can't be the only person in the world who's watched a video on youtube and said to myself "This game looks way more fun than I thought it would be". That's good for business.
And before it comes back again, for me the real issue is not whether Nintendo has a right to do this because they obviously do. "Is it worth the effort?" is the better question.
I KNOW I can't be the only person in the world who's watched a video on youtube and said to myself "This game looks way more fun than I thought it would be". That's good for business. And to go back to something I said earlier, no review could give you a realistic sense of what a game actually plays like because they are all only about a few minutes long and only graze and generalize each aspect of the game. Actually watching someone play a game is a totally different experience and will give you a more realistic impression of what a game plays like. Anyone can make a game look good or bad with a few clips and deceiving words if that is their desire.
And for games that I already have, I can't tell you how many times I watched a speedrun and dug out a game that I hadn't played in a long time because a video showed me how to make the most annoying parts (that prevented me from replaying as often) much easier. I just don't see how these videos are a realistic threat. Maybe some of the hack videos could be a negligible threat to Mario Maker but not enough of a threat that Nintendo should go after these videos. They're just being childish and playing right into the "giant corporate assholes" stereotype that people love to hate.
And before it comes back again, for me the real issue is not whether Nintendo has a right to do this because they obviously do. "Is it worth the effort?" is the better question. Honestly, I wouldn't even care if it weren't for the fact that I like some of these videos and a number of them have either given me a greater appreciation for a game I already had or showed that a game that I didn't have was actually worth my money and attention. Nintendo is stepping on my balls...
I get what you're saying here, and I could note few examples of this myself, however, I would argue that speed runs are absolutely awful for business. ROM hack or no ROM hack.
Personally, I only watch speed runs when I don't want to actually play the game, but I'm still interested in seeing what it's all about. The only exception to this is when I want to see that new found glitch that everyone is talking about.
Wait... are we talking about removing videos of the actual game? Or removing videos of hacks? This whole thread I was under the impression we were talking about the latter.
I suppose when money is no longer a thing on the Earth then maybe this petty stuff will disappear.
Money causes so much problems as much it creates.
Rip on money all you want. But without it we wouldn't have video games at all, and we'd all still be bartering with sheep and chickens.
Money is dirty. You never know when the dollar bill you hold in your hand has been in some skanky stripper's crack. Ew...
I do remember reading years ago one review, I think it was for Super Mario Galaxy 2, where the site admitted Nintendo told the reviewers they were only allowed to talk about certain levels.
That right there makes you kind of question the credibility of the professional review system. Though maybe the companies don't want major spoilers in reviews but still if they can have the ability to censor reviewers who get advance copies of copies, that's that...
(obviously they wouldn't be able to do anything to someone who reviewed a self-purchased retail copy, but then that site would be behind)
Pfft. It's 2015. Money is in plastic/virtual form now, not bill form.
I don't understand. If you want to see how a game plays, you certainly won't be watching a speedrun, because those plays the game as quickly as possible, often by exploiting all kind of glitches. You'll only watch a speedrun if you already know the game very well.
Thus the argument that "speedruns are free publicity for the game" is nonsense.
Mario maker would not have been a concept if not for rom hackers. Mario maker is based on rom hacking and with the use of new heros that we all know comes directually from a hack called mario cross over. If anything nintendo owes its new found creativity and sucess to rom hackers specifically. Becides the hackers are their biggest fans for making an exysting product better. If that were not true hacks would not exist.
I don't understand. If you want to see how a game plays, you certainly won't be watching a speedrun, because those plays the game as quickly as possible, often by exploiting all kind of glitches. You'll only watch a speedrun if you already know the game very well.
Thus the argument that "speedruns are free publicity for the game" is nonsense.
And personally I'd rather play a game than watch someone play it - the only exception being if I weren't able to successfully get past a point of the game without cheating and/or if the game's control are horrible so I'd rather not play it.
Game reviews are very informative before you are going to buy a game, as long as you pay attention to many reviews and not just one, obviously, and that you keep in mind different people have different tastes.
I find a video (try to find a glitchless run) and skip ahead 10-15 minutes and watch just for a few minutes. The level of insight that provides cannot be replaced with a review.Then your method for juging games before buying them is probably horrible. You're only watching a very specific part of the game, while a reviewer will summary the whole 50-100 hours experience in a few paragraphs. A review will get you much more insight as watching a random 3 minutes of gameplay, let alone if those are done by a speedrunner that will not play the game "normally".
There is nothing I hate more about the current internet trends than that everything needs to be a video.
Mario maker would not have been a concept if not for rom hackers. Mario maker is based on rom hacking and with the use of new heros that we all know comes directually from a hack called mario cross over.
so basically this thread boils down to "oldschool japan company is weird and has weird opinions of internet shenangians"
am i right
I don't understand. If you want to see how a game plays, you certainly won't be watching a speedrun, because those plays the game as quickly as possible, often by exploiting all kind of glitches.
You'll only watch a speedrun if you already know the game very well.
Thus the argument that "speedruns are free publicity for the game" is nonsense.
There is nothing I hate more about the current internet trends than that everything needs to be a video.
The difference I see with uploading a Let's Play video vs. a movie or music, is that the game requires effort to play, and so the playthrough is content being created (whereas illegally uploading an unedited movie or music does not).
I don't see watching a play video deterring sales much different than someone borrowing a DVD from a friend, watching and deciding they don't want to buy it. (I'd have said Netflix or Redbox, except I'm sure that's still somewhat making money for the copyright owner)
That's an interesting spin, KingMike, but has it been tested on the legal battlefield?
So, in a nutshell, if you make money from your let's plays Nintendo wants a slice? Or that would cover any let's play in general? Also what about alternatives such as Twitch?
I think the biggest complaints about Nintendo's plan, last I read, is that it would let Nintendo decide what games are allowed to be played and it demanded no games for rival consoles on the same channel.
So, in a nutshell, if you make money from your let's plays Nintendo wants a slice? Or that would cover any let's play in general? Also what about alternatives such as Twitch?
I say just hit them harder than ever. Create a rom hacking company which makes badass rom hacks of Nintendos IP's. People will LOVE the new romhacks and support the work. Nintendo will shut down the rom hacking company thus hurting lots of fans and hurting their own image. People then hate Nintendo and Nintendo goes out of business because no one will support them anymore.
Since it was asked before why would Nintendo complain about ROM hacks on youtube yet do nothing to repro makers?
The answer is: probably because it's easier for Nintendo to do. All they need to do is file a complaint to youtube.
There was a time Nightcrawler tried to take down a repro maker making repros of his translation patches. I believe he reported the repro maker to his ISP or US-based website host or whatever. Something like that.
Site went down for like a day or something maybe until the repro maker just found a new host in like the Middle East or Asia, somewhere known to be more tolerant of copyright infringement.
Even though if they're in the US, Nintendo could probably sue the site owner directly, but I'm assuming there's quite of bureaucratic legal work they'd still have to work through to make it all formal and such.
I wonder if this pertains to games that will never see the light of day in the US, like BS Zelda or Seiken Dentetsu 3. I just started making videos and intend to put them on Youtube, but for rom hacks I should make sure not to monetize anything for rom hacks...
How many intellectual properties does Nintendo actually own, that this is an issue? Just leave their stuff alone. Refuse to make any videos featuring their first party content, and don't give any views to videos that do.Thing is what Nintendo has their hands on is undoubtedly a fair number of the most popular IPs in gaming history: Mario (and other associated franchises like DK and Yoshi), Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon. And still fairly popular F-Zero, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem.