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Romhacking => Newcomer's Board => Topic started by: dejan07 on July 13, 2015, 09:10:59 am

Title: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on July 13, 2015, 09:10:59 am
i have seen a lot of complaints on other forums about Landstalker's terrible d-pad controls and i am wondering if changing controls from diagonals to normal layout (like for example in the Ladystalker game) is a difficult task for hackers to accomplish.

If it is not i think this project could generate great interest with minimal amount of hacking because so many people are complaining about weird controls in that game and it is such a shame that this game is almost unplayable because of it especially since it is one of the best games on the Genesis.

It breaks my heart...
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: tryphon on July 13, 2015, 11:57:25 am
I played this game back in the days and I don't remember the fact you use diagonals made the game unplayable (the Genesis d_pad was great). The main problem was to locate platforms when they were floating, and it's inherent to the isometric representation.

That said, I think it's doable for someone who knows a little asm, you have to trace calls to controllers ports to locate the routine that handles moves. You need to know a little asm though.

But how exactly should the controls be ? If you press 'up', you go up-left or up-right ?
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Hiei- on July 13, 2015, 02:13:33 pm
Yeah, controls weren't bad. It just require a bit of learning, but I don't remember it being unplayable at all.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: PresidentLeever on July 14, 2015, 06:08:16 am
That's not what bothered me about the controls, it was the lack of a shadow when jumping and that you (inconsistently) hit walls to the sides when fighting in tight areas. So I would work on that and maybe some rebalancing in terms of gold drops from enemies and points of no return in the dungeons that lead to backtracking.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Maeson on July 14, 2015, 12:22:06 pm
they could get pretty annoying in your first playthrough (Which may be your last if you can't get over them), it's one of those kinds of controls that work when you're not thinking about them, but the moment you need to concentrate, you fuck up because how weird they are.

Which is sad because the game itself is pretty good and a classic of the Genesis (Although some of the latter places have some bullshit moments).

Besides the d-pad, the only bad part is the non-existent shadow, which I find vital for isometric games, as PresidentLeever comments...
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Gideon Zhi on July 14, 2015, 12:49:06 pm
The d-pad controls are funky. You have to basically press the diagonals, which works on the Genesis pad but not on many others. Alternatively you can press up and down which take you up-right and down-left respectively, but in order to go up-left and down-right you have to START by pressing up or down, then move to be pressing left or right; you can't start by just pressing left or right. It's really bad.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: PresidentLeever on July 14, 2015, 02:58:59 pm
Surprised to see anyone having problems with the diagonals since I played through it with a PS2 controller just a few years ago for the first time and it didn't take long to get used to. MD or SAT d-pads are better for it though.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on July 14, 2015, 04:33:16 pm

But how exactly should the controls be ? If you press 'up', you go up-left or up-right ?

In the sequel to Landstalker when you press up you go up-right. I am playing through Ladystalker on my Super Famicom and the controls are awesome but Lanstalker is unplayable for me.

I have contacted few hacker super stars from Aeon Genesis site but i got no response. As long as they are working on Far East of Eden Zero translation  i can forgive them.  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on September 12, 2015, 01:33:59 pm
I am happy to announce that the Landstalker's terrible d-pad controls have been fixed from diagonals to simple 4 direction layout just like in its sequel Ladystalker! This was done by M.I.J.E.T. after i asked him kindly if he could do this and he said yes!!!
What a great guy!

You can download the patch on his webpage:
http://mijet.eludevisibility.org/

Search Landstalker Alternate Controls Patch beta for the ips patch.

Again, thanks M.I.J.E.T.!
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Daria on September 12, 2015, 04:20:23 pm
But how exactly should the controls be ? If you press 'up', you go up-left or up-right ?

I've been playing ZHP on PSP and the controls are set up like this. I keep getting disoriented and accidentally moving the wrong direction. Maybe I'm just special, but I don't find it very intuitive at all.

Like someone else mentioned the best "fix" for landstalker would be adding a shadow so you could properly gauge your jumps.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on September 13, 2015, 04:35:52 am
Adding a shadow in the Landstalker would greatly improve the game and i would also like to change the sound effects for the most part.

All this could take some serious hacking so i am not even gonna ask the poor M.I.J.E.T. to do all this, he is busy with his own projects. AT least compare the original controls with the new one you will be surprised how improved they are now.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: tryphon on September 13, 2015, 05:03:59 am
I put this on my (already long) project list. With no insurance I'll do it :)
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on September 13, 2015, 01:56:31 pm
Thanks for you input tryphon. If this continues like this we will soon be able to remake the whole game from the ground up.  ;D

I am already super happy as it is and i am playing it for the first time for real because the game was unplayble for me before. It's a great game!
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: tryphon on September 13, 2015, 02:20:11 pm
I finished it back in the days, and yes, I've great memories about it.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: MagicianLord on October 04, 2015, 07:40:45 am
I am happy to announce that the Landstalker's terrible d-pad controls have been fixed from diagonals to simple 4 direction layout just like in its sequel Ladystalker! This was done by M.I.J.E.T. after i asked him kindly if he could do this and he said yes!!!
What a great guy!

You can download the patch on his webpage:
http://mijet.eludevisibility.org/

Search Landstalker Alternate Controls Patch beta for the ips patch.

Again, thanks M.I.J.E.T.!

Great job and thanks to M.I.J.E.T., although imagine my dismay, when I applied the patch and realized that the new controls were not mapped in the way that I expected or considered natural. :o So, I decided to hack the patch and get things fixed! In the new patch file, the controls are mapped like this: Up on the D-pad = , Down = , Left = & Right = . Let me know if there are any issues or if the file is not available any more.

http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols (http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols)
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: dejan07 on October 06, 2015, 10:51:55 am
I am sorry to hear that you were disappointed but I have tried your patch and it is a good variation on the controls and now i cann't decide which one is better!

As long as there are no diagonals controls involved i am happy with it.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Maeson on October 07, 2015, 06:38:16 am
Well, there is no "better control"...

With this type of game, usually there is an option to choose between both directions for a reason: Some people feel more comfortable with one more than the other.

I'll have both just because, lol.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: MagicianLord on October 09, 2015, 05:07:48 pm
I am sorry to hear that you were disappointed but I have tried your patch and it is a good variation on the controls and now i cann't decide which one is better!

As long as there are no diagonals controls involved i am happy with it.

I'm happy you like my variation as well dejan07! I'm sure the terrible controls hurt the sales of what seems to be a very good game. Apparently Ladystalker seems to have same controls as the original patch, so when I get around to playing it, I hope I'll be able to hack it if someone hasn't done so already! And of course there's Dark Savior afterwards...God knows what kind of controls they used for that one...  ::)
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: tryphon on October 09, 2015, 05:15:20 pm
II'm sure the terrible controls hurt the sales of what seems to be a very good game.

No, really, I don't think so :)
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: baochan on November 03, 2015, 04:00:27 pm
Great job and thanks to M.I.J.E.T., although imagine my dismay, when I applied the patch and realized that the new controls were not mapped in the way that I expected or considered natural. :o So, I decided to hack the patch and get things fixed! In the new patch file, the controls are mapped like this: Up on the D-pad = , Down = , Left = & Right = . Let me know if there are any issues or if the file is not available any more.

http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols (http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols)

MagicianLord, this sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Any chance you could re-upload it?
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Hiei- on November 03, 2015, 07:38:15 pm
No, really, I don't think so :)

I don't think so either. Genesis/Megadrive D-Pad have "real" diagonals so it wasn't a problem at all.

(http://videogamecritic.com/images/systems/gencontroller.jpg)

Contrary to most other controllers which require you to hold two directions to input a diagonal.

Great job and thanks to M.I.J.E.T., although imagine my dismay, when I applied the patch and realized that the new controls were not mapped in the way that I expected or considered natural. :o So, I decided to hack the patch and get things fixed! In the new patch file, the controls are mapped like this: Up on the D-pad = , Down = , Left = & Right = . Let me know if there are any issues or if the file is not available any more.

http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols (http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols)

Seems the most natural choice. Which choice M.I.DJ.E.T did?

By the way, your file is unavailable.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: MagicianLord on November 04, 2015, 05:32:37 pm
Hey guys, I'm glad there is interest in my version! ;D I have reuploaded the file http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols (http://www.filedropper.com/landstalker-alternatecontrolscustomcontrols), so please give it a try and let me know if there are any issues.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: baochan on November 05, 2015, 10:07:59 am
Thanks! Out of curiosity, what tools did you use to manipulate the IPS file and to know which values to move around? Some kind of disassembler I imagine?
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Hiei- on November 05, 2015, 11:26:24 am
Thanks :)

Here's a mirror link which will always be online without time limits : http://www.hiei-tf.fr/Landstalker_-_Alternate_Controls_Custom.ips
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: SunGodPortal on November 05, 2015, 05:58:22 pm
Quote
Thanks! Out of curiosity, what tools did you use to manipulate the IPS file and to know which values to move around? Some kind of disassembler I imagine?

IPS Peek and IPS Select are good for that. The first one views the changes made and where, the second let's you select which changes to apply when patching.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: VicVergil on November 06, 2015, 11:28:00 am
IPS Peek and IPS Select are good for that. The first one views the changes made and where, the second let's you select which changes to apply when patching.

Hex Workshop and WindHex also offer a file comparison function to compare the final patched file with the original one. As long as the internal file tree wasn't rebuilt (think stuff like GC/PSP/DS onwards) you can pinpoint exactly what changed. It's quite useful dare I say - I admit to getting Chinese-translated stuff just to know where the text/font is (well, corruption might be more useful for this purpose, but whatever).
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: MagicianLord on November 07, 2015, 08:08:01 am
Thanks :)

Here's a mirror link which will always be online without time limits : http://www.hiei-tf.fr/Landstalker%20-%20Alternate%20Controls%20(Custom%20Controls).ips

Thanks for that Hiei, that should save me some trouble! :thumbsup:

Thanks! Out of curiosity, what tools did you use to manipulate the IPS file and to know which values to move around? Some kind of disassembler I imagine?

You just need a hex reader/editor at the end of the day. I have not used the utilities that other people have mentioned but what I did was the following:

Created a copy of the Landstalker rom file and applied the patch to it. Then I used VBinDiff to compare the differences between the two roms. Once I knew which memory values were set by the patch, I opened the patched rom using Hxd and started to change them slightly in order to see the effect that change would have. This step involved a fair amount of trial and error. In the end and once I knew which values needed to be changed I just edited the existing patch to create a new one.

In general it took me half a day to get it working like I wanted, so it wasn't easy but it sure was fun! :)
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Gideon Zhi on December 05, 2015, 05:50:24 pm
Apparently Ladystalker seems to have same controls as the original patch, so when I get around to playing it, I hope I'll be able to hack it if someone hasn't done so already!

Just did this. Was a fairly simple hack. I'll certainly be including the patch as an optional extra with the eventual release.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: Caiterz on December 08, 2015, 06:34:57 pm
Quote
Ladystalker
eventual release.


Pls. :O
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: MagicianLord on December 18, 2015, 04:21:55 pm
Just did this. Was a fairly simple hack. I'll certainly be including the patch as an optional extra with the eventual release.

Excellent thanks! :thumbsup: Look forward to it.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: cospefogo on January 27, 2016, 01:52:13 pm
Bah!
Superb!

I have been searching for such hack for a long time!
Thanks, guys!
Really thanks!

Cospefogo.
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: KML_85 on May 21, 2019, 07:21:11 am
Does anyone still have MagicianLord patch, all the links are dead, sorry for necro
Title: Re: Landstalker's terrible d-pad control
Post by: vergil2012 on May 22, 2019, 04:51:05 am
Does anyone still have MagicianLord patch, all the links are dead, sorry for necro

Try this one (from ''Hiei-''):
https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=20088.msg290594#msg290594