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Romhacking => ROM Hacking Discussion => Topic started by: tryphon on December 31, 2013, 10:56:17 am

Title: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on December 31, 2013, 10:56:17 am
Hi,

I was wondering if there exists a hack way to resurrect Nei : GameGenie or Action Replay code, or a hack ?

Has it been made ? I ask for it because if no, I'm planning to look into the asm to see how to do that.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Pennywise on December 31, 2013, 11:15:52 am
I can't confirm myself, but I recall reading in a gaming magazine or something that you could revive her by using whatever items revives characters in battle.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on December 31, 2013, 11:28:05 am
Thanks, but I can confirm it's a fake. I tried all regular ways to do that, and none works. If it's possible, it's via a code or a hack.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Dahl on December 31, 2013, 11:52:37 am
GameGenie

Yes, there is.

AHDS-8AAM

It's been awhile since I last used this code, but, if I remember correctly, you are supposed to enter the code after she...leaves, and then she'll magically appear in the party selection screen, among the rest of the characters.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on December 31, 2013, 01:05:38 pm
Thank. I'll try to make a clean hack from that :)
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: marlin1500 on January 02, 2014, 08:31:52 am
You can also let her use slasher by changing 20 which is Anna's weapon code to 22 as Nei's code is 02 I have not tried her with knives but she has no gun animation.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 02, 2014, 02:58:08 pm
Thanks, but I can confirm it's a fake. I tried all regular ways to do that, and none works. If it's possible, it's via a code or a hack.

No, it's not a fake. You can use Moon Dew to revive Nei in the battle with Neifirst. Problem is, she dies right after the battle anyway.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: cobaltex on January 02, 2014, 06:08:40 pm
I would love to see someone make a (side-)quest to revive Nei.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 02, 2014, 06:44:31 pm
Problem is, she dies right after the battle anyway.

That.

Therefore, it's a fake  8)

I would love to see someone make a (side-)quest to revive Nei.

That's exactly what I planned to do (a mini side quest though, I wanted to cancel the event preventing to resurrect her, provided you have a certain item. It may be too hard to do.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Azkadellia on January 02, 2014, 08:55:58 pm
You could revive her in the PS2 remake. You had to do some convoluted stuff though. Namely, New Game+, have a completed Generation 1 save, and I forget the other steps.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 02, 2014, 09:23:54 pm
You could revive her in the PS2 remake. You had to do some convoluted stuff though. Namely, New Game+, have a completed Generation 1 save, and I forget the other steps.

That'd be wonderful...if I spoke Japanese. And the steps involved absolutely require you to know what is being said. You have to see every line of text in the game up to Climatrol.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 02, 2014, 09:55:47 pm
I'm currently working on the translation of the remake. The English version will take some time, but the French is quite far on its way...
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 02, 2014, 10:28:51 pm
Well, that'd be awesome.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Piotyr on January 03, 2014, 07:42:12 am
Props bro. I can't not wait to play that!
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 03, 2014, 06:49:27 pm
Just out of curiosity...when you go to Dezo and don't have the Mogic Hat or Magic Hat and talk to people, they just talk in gibberish (with Latin characters) in the English version...what does it look like in Japanese? Is it gibberish with Japanese characters?
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 03, 2014, 07:04:48 pm
Gibberish katakanas.

Well, that'd be awesome.

It will, I think  8)
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 06, 2014, 04:09:37 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 08, 2014, 07:53:39 pm
The ability to resurrect Nei would reduce or negate the impact of losing her.

Perhaps adding a side quest to gain a mute, emotionless Neifirst or something along those lines, would allow the player to keep a palette-swapped Nei sort of NPC in the party while maintaining the loss that the main character endures by losing her.

Well, unless there was some SERIOUS editing done to the game, Nei would have no lines or anything like that after Climatrol, since the game would still think she was dead. So, she would be mute and emotionless, and would have no part in the ending, etc. She'd just still be a playable character.

EDIT: Once again, making a sidequest would require some serious changes to the game's code. What I think the OP was talking about would be just a simple change where the game recognizes her as still being either mandatory or optional rather than unselectable when you go to your house to reorganize your party. There's a Game Genie code, as was mentioned in this thread, to do it...but there must be some way to actually edit the game so that it doesn't change her selectability (for lack of a better word) after Climatrol. Unless someone edited further, she'd have no lines or would not be part of the storyline in any way. The storyline would go on as it normally would have without Nei.

FURTHER EDIT: Has anyone used the code mentioned in this thread? If so, I have a couple questions about it:

A) Do you have to turn on the code every time you want to change your party, or does Nei stay in your party for the rest of the game after using it once?
and
B) If Nei dies after using the code, can you revive her at the clone lab as normal, or do you get the "it doesn't really work like that" message like you do after Climatrol, necessitating further use of the code?

FURTHER EDIT AGAIN: Even if the game were altered so that Nei had an actual part in the storyline after Climatrol, would it really lessen the impact of losing her? It's EXTREMELY unlikely that anyone except a veteran of PSII and PS in general would be seeking out this hack. Thus, anyone who would play it would know exactly what the impact of losing her was. It'd just be replaying the game from a different angle.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 09, 2014, 07:00:10 am
Well, unless there was some SERIOUS editing done to the game, Nei would have no lines or anything like that after Climatrol, since the game would still think she was dead. So, she would be mute and emotionless, and would have no part in the ending, etc. She'd just still be a playable character.

EDIT: Once again, making a sidequest would require some serious changes to the game's code. What I think the OP was talking about would be just a simple change where the game recognizes her as still being either mandatory or optional rather than unselectable when you go to your house to reorganize your party. There's a Game Genie code, as was mentioned in this thread, to do it...but there must be some way to actually edit the game so that it doesn't change her selectability (for lack of a better word) after Climatrol. Unless someone edited further, she'd have no lines or would not be part of the storyline in any way. The storyline would go on as it normally would have without Nei.

I plan to add the possibility to resurrect Nei after Climatrol according to the fact you own a certain item when she dies (let's say a Genome Report). I didn't yet decide how you get this item (I'm studying the code for the moment). I plan to add her some weapon, and maybe a few line of text if she's been revived.

So, yes, there will be some heavy hacking.

Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 09, 2014, 05:31:09 pm
I plan to add her some weapon, and maybe a few line of text if she's been revived.

Without new armor, Nei will be VERY fragile by the time you even get to Gaira. Remember, her BEST armor is the Fiber Vest.

For what it's worth, in my personal hack (which Fedorajoe helped me with greatly, and I cannot stress how much I appreciate that) where Nei is brought back via Game Genie, I gave her three new weapons (FIRE BAR - +48 attack/+5 defense, LACO BAR - +56 attack/+7 defense, NEI BAR - +65 attack/+9 defense), replacing SCALPEL, WHIP, and LACODAGGER (Amy started with a Knife, Hugh with a Dagger). I gave her two new pieces of armor (CRYST VEST - +50 defense, and LACO VEST - +60 defense), one new piece of headgear (NEI RIBBON, +40 defense), and I replaced TTNM CHEST, TTNM ARMOR, and TTNM CAPE (I find these pieces of equipment redundant, as by the time you can go to Kueri, you can also go to Piata and get the upgraded, albeit slightly more expensive, Ceramic armors. I also made SHUNEBOOTS equippable by Nei, although KNIFEBOOTS might actually be the better option. It depends on the player's preference, and how the player plans to use Nei. These new pieces of equipment won't actually make the game easier, I don't think, as a Level 50 Nei with optimal equipment is probably actually weaker than a Level 35 Kain or Anna with their optimal equipment. It's just the novelty of having Nei in your party after Climatrol.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 09, 2014, 06:23:51 pm
I'll certainly do something like that. What's sad is that there's not much room to add new items. I may try to do something to fix that.

To resurrect Nei via ROM hacking, you can try to put :
4E 71 4E 71 4E 71
at 0xCA58 in the ROM. It should do the trick (not much tested).
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 09, 2014, 06:27:18 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 09, 2014, 06:33:30 pm
If I can find some good art to add in the ending pictures, why not... (shouldn't be too difficult).
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 09, 2014, 08:55:08 pm
To resurrect Nei via ROM hacking, you can try to put :
4E 71 4E 71 4E 71
at 0xCA58 in the ROM. It should do the trick (not much tested).

What would happen after the battle with Neifirst with this hack?

January 09, 2014, 09:03:47 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
As far as not having room to add new items, it'd be great if you figured out a way. In the meantime, I just replaced items that I probably wouldn't use anyway (Scalpel, Whip, Lacodagger, Ttnm Chest, Ttnm Armor, Ttnm Cape).
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 09, 2014, 10:05:25 pm
The game should go normally after the battle vs Neifirst, excepted that when you reorganize members at home, Nei is in your team, exactly like before.

It's be more difficult to make her optional, like other members (require hacking completely the menu routine, I think I'll do it later).

To add more items, I plan to hack the way an item is seen as equiped by the program (it sees if id of item is >= 128). If equipable items are well grouped, I may replace this test by something more restrictive, and get some ids back for others items.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 09, 2014, 10:47:10 pm
Alright, I will test it out in a couple days.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Dahl on January 10, 2014, 09:22:09 am
You can always mimic Nei from Generation 2.

http://rpg-home.lunar-net.com/psg2-web/heroes_02.htm

Even if she's not as strong physically as the other characters, having her with healing and buffs might make her useful for the late-game (if there's room for new techniques, that is).
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 12, 2014, 02:21:15 pm
One way to possibly do it (maybe in addition to the sidequest) is this:

If Nei beats Neifirst alone, she lives. If not, she dies.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 14, 2014, 02:45:30 pm
Almost done. I have introduced a new item. If you have it when Nei dies, the scene at the clone lab just after Climatrol is different and Nei is resurrected. Then, when you go to your home to reorganize the party, she's selectable.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/33djo09.png)

If you have not the item, nothing changes.

Now, I have to decide how you get this item... It should have something to do with Biosystem Lab, and I'd like it to force the player to use some uncommon characters as Hugh or Shir. I have no good idea so I'm open to suggestion.

I don't think beating Neifirst with Nei should be necessary (it's not meant to be possible, and it would just need much grinding).
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Jeville on January 14, 2014, 05:45:44 pm
Can it work to be given to you after the Neifirst fight? You'd have the choice to respect Nei's wish to die and discard it, or use it to "revive" her. For an item that serves the purpose of the hack, I'm not a fan of the possibility of it being permanently missable, at least not so easily for those who don't read the readme in advance.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 14, 2014, 06:24:51 pm
Hey tryphon...

I changed what you said to change, and no Nei.

I see from your screenshot that you had success, though. I am very new at this, and the possibility that I screwed something up is fairly high. I went to offset CA58 and put in 4E 71 4E 71 4E 71. It did not work. Did I do it correctly? The Game Genie code in this thread did not work, either.

EDIT: The Game Genie code DID work, once I switched from Kega Fusion to Gens. The way to get it to work is to wait until AFTER you have chosen your party (if you want, say, Rolf, Nei, Rudo, and Kain, you have to choose Rolf, someone else, Rudo, and Kain, because that someone else will be replaced from Nei in your party). When Rolf says "Let's get going!", turn the code on, and Nei will be in your party. However, you have to do this every time you change your party. I'd much rather just hack the ROM, though, than go through this process each time. It's the same as hacking the save state to insert Nei.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 14, 2014, 09:16:33 pm
Copy what you have between 0xCA50 and 0xCA60.

You have to hack your ROM BEFORE going to Climatrol. Ideally, the ROM should be patched since the beginning, but AFAIK, doing this before the battle vs Neifirst should be enough. But doing it after won't work.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 14, 2014, 10:01:44 pm
Original was this:
CD 04 52 78 DE 58 4E 75 11 FC 00 01 C7 36 11 FC

Changed to this:
CD 04 52 78 DE 58 4E 75 4E 71 4E 71 4E 71 11 FC

I didn't try doing it prior to Climatrol. I do, however, have a save state from right before the battle with Neifirst. Let me test it out and see if it works, for future reference.

EDIT: Nope, no dice. I beat Neifirst again, and when Rolf went back to his house, Nei was neither mandatory in the party nor available to select.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 14, 2014, 11:14:29 pm
Strange. Your modification is correct. You did it before Nei vs. Neifirst or Others vs. Neifirst ?
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 15, 2014, 12:10:08 am
Nei vs. Neifirst.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 15, 2014, 12:23:42 am
I tried from scratch. Indeed it doesn't work. I may have forgotten a previous modification.

I'll provide a correct hack in the days to come.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: arromdee on January 15, 2014, 01:09:32 am
That'd be wonderful...if I spoke Japanese. And the steps involved absolutely require you to know what is being said. You have to see every line of text in the game up to Climatrol.

If I understand it correctly, you don't actually have to see every line in the game, but since nobody knows exactly what lines you do have to see, the only way to guarantee that is to see every line in the game, at least until someone hacks the game enough to figure out what the real requirement is.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 15, 2014, 08:38:55 am
If I understand it correctly, you don't actually have to see every line in the game, but since nobody knows exactly what lines you do have to see, the only way to guarantee that is to see every line in the game, at least until someone hacks the game enough to figure out what the real requirement is.

True enough, although for all we know, you MAY have to see every line in the game.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 15, 2014, 09:49:48 am
Put 4E71 4E71 4E71 at address 0xb1c6. I tried, it works.

But Nei is now mandatory. To make it optional is much harder. I'll release it when I'll have implemented a way to get the special item.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 15, 2014, 01:34:10 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 15, 2014, 03:03:15 pm
Put 4E71 4E71 4E71 at address 0xb1c6. I tried, it works.

But Nei is now mandatory. To make it optional is much harder. I'll release it when I'll have implemented a way to get the special item.

Thanks. You're a genius. And I see no reason, story-wise, why Nei SHOULDN'T still be mandatory. In fact, I see no reason, story-wise, why the Clone Labs weren't able to revive her in the first place, since they had no problem doing it up until that point.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 15, 2014, 03:15:37 pm
I think I have read somewhere (maybe in this thread) that Clone Lab Grandma says in fact something like "half of the genes has been lost", and the English translation was inaccurate.

Hence the dialog I added :
Quote from: Grandma
Welcome to the Clone
Labs! Who would you like
to have returned to you?
Ahh, the one called Nei?
I see her DNA data is
incomplete and I normal-
ly can't do anything.
But I see you have
GENOME; I can try to
synthetize missing data

As for Nei carrying guns, it's likely doable but it's questionnable :
- there are already two gun users, one more would be too much
- she's not strong, and would have difficulties carrying an heavy load

But for now, my main concern is : how to bring the resurrecting item in the story ?
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 15, 2014, 03:58:17 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 15, 2014, 04:01:23 pm
But for now, my main concern is : how to bring the resurrecting item in the story ?

Perhaps talking to someone three or four times can get them to give it to you. Having it be in a chest would be too easy. Maybe that guy near the control tower in Piata (considering you'd have no reason to go there anyway prior to fighting Neifirst) could say his normal line the first few times, then "Why do you keep bothering me? What do you want?", then "Yes, I have the GENOME. It can help synthesize data if genes are ever lost in the Clone Lab, which would prevent people from being brought back to life. I don't really have any use for it, though, so I guess you can have it."
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 15, 2014, 04:41:44 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 15, 2014, 07:36:05 pm
These are some good ideas but : who has created Nei and Neifirst ?
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 15, 2014, 08:27:13 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: etony33 on January 16, 2014, 06:04:07 am
Maybe that guy in Piata IS that scientist. And really, unless they are told to do so, how many veterans of the game are going to talk to a random guy in Piata more than twice? Make it a challenge. Say "Nei CAN be resurrected, but it's up to you to figure out how!"

Of course...you know that somewhere, maybe at PSCave, someone's going to start a thread saying "How do I resurrect Nei in tryphon's hack?", and someone will answer it.

I am personally shocked that no one has come up with a way to alter the code to have Nei stay in your party until now. Even in Numan Revolution, which was a complete makeover (and whoever did it had incredible skills), you had to input a Game Genie code.


OR, and I just thought of this, but I don't know if you can work it in or not...maybe Shir can steal it from a Clone Lab. Make it so she steals a Monomate, like, 99% of the time if she successfully steals, to make it incredibly difficult to get the Genome.
Regarding Nei and guns, I think that would decrease the difficulty level a bit too much. Having Nei and Rudo mowing down robots with Pulse Vulcans would just make it too easy. Having Nei actually INCREASES it late-game if she is mandatory. It's a bit of a trade-off. But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 19, 2014, 02:19:10 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 19, 2014, 04:53:58 pm
The hack I implemented can be set active whenever you want after Climatrol. I'll describe how it works if you're interested.

I'm currently hacking the game precisely for the needs of a translation. I have coded a way to bypass the limited dialogue length.

I'm looking for a way to enlarge the dialog window, then I'll try to implement a VWF.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Avster on January 20, 2014, 08:33:56 pm
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Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on January 20, 2014, 09:15:58 pm
I'm afraid VWF is too difficult : there's almost no place in VRAM.

I'm changing the display of menu to add more space for names, items, and techniques.
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: Kite_AM on April 16, 2014, 12:43:36 am
Tryphon, are you still working on this? I would like to use your hack c:
Title: Re: Phantasy Star II : resurrecting Nei ?
Post by: tryphon on April 16, 2014, 01:59:07 am
It's paused for the moment : I'm busy with Phantasy Star Generations 2 translation.