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Romhacking => ROM Hacking Discussion => Topic started by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 12, 2013, 07:11:58 pm

Title: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 12, 2013, 07:11:58 pm
Does anyone here have the contact info for Japanese romhacker Puresabe?

I've been playing through his downright jaw-dropping Rockman 4 Minus Infinity hack and would like to help with correcting the errors in his English script, which in the readme he admits to having only a limited understanding of English. With only some minor changes, the english could be so much better, and still stay within the character limits.

I can type in Japanese, and I'd like to email him about the idea of helping fix the grammar mistakes in Japanese and showcase to him exactly what I have in mind such as this:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/5ca914cc677debb9aa7bed2ac2dc8cb8/tumblr_moayy2S1191rc7qlzo1_400.png)

to this:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/68cb3960dcee744290b2ca7663951f8c/tumblr_moaz04mRhC1rc7qlzo1_400.png)

If someone knows an email address where I can contact him, please pm me the details.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI creator Puresabe's contact info?
Post by: NES Boy on June 14, 2013, 01:06:04 am
Nice cleanup. But I'd like to point out that Puresabe's English transcript uses the American character names (although there were points where he slips up -- Mega Man's name was initialized to "R" both after defeating Dr. Cossack and when he rescues Kalinka, Dr. Light is named "Dr. Right" in the opening cutscene for Wily Stage 3, and Proto Man was named Blues when he appears during the final boss).
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI creator Puresabe's contact info?
Post by: Myria on June 14, 2013, 03:33:48 am
Why fix it?  The Engrish makes it feel more like the original games we all know and love. =)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI creator Puresabe's contact info?
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 14, 2013, 04:12:50 pm
Because this hack is incredible, just incredible.

The script does so much more than any official Rockman game and really deserve to be overhauled. I can re-translate all of the text, but I don't have the romhacking knowledge myself to actually implement the revised script. I can only create visual mockups that fit within the allotted text spacing and therefore should be easy for a skilled hacker to actually implement.

As this is a Japanese ROM hack of Rockman 4, I feel the text should keep the Japanese names Rockman, Blues etc. Except for Dr. Right. That should be Light, even in Japanese where he's sometimes written as 光 [hikari, light] 教授.


Here's what I've finished thus far. Left is the original Engrish, right are my edits.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c3c23b0742d0d8b9d09a289e3852cf0b/tumblr_moeg2klMwF1rc7qlzo1_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/e6cdfef79abb27a471035aca3765ba09/tumblr_moeg2klMwF1rc7qlzo2_1280.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/5ad6b7786d4415f79fee7a7bb4ea85ad/tumblr_moeg2klMwF1rc7qlzo3_1280.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI creator Puresabe's contact info?
Post by: Midna on June 14, 2013, 05:30:00 pm
"Soler" should probably be "Solar".

I understand your reasoning, but Puresabe changed the names to their English counterparts (well, mostly...) in his translation, so that may be the best course of action.

"lightbulb to the barrel" -> "lightbulb into the barrel"

Maybe keep something in about the "mysterious force" of the Toad spell?

Besides that, it looks good.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI creator Puresabe's contact info?
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 14, 2013, 08:37:59 pm
The exact wording of the text isn't finalized by any means. Right now, this is all just a proof of concept.

Actually, if there are any skilled rom hackers reading this, it would GREATLY help if someone could take a look at the newest version of the hack in a disassembler or such and could produce for me some sort of image file to tell me exactly what English characters the game can produce.

Is it as limited as the Megaman 2 font? This is Megaman 2's font:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/9f2446d8328c4ca5cbc15b8cc47e3fff/tumblr_moes7rsE511rc7qlzo1_250.png)

Or is it expanded like the Rockman/Mega Man 9 and 10 font?

Mega Man 9 font:

(http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/MM9/Misc/Screen/mm9_font.png)

If it's as limited as the Rockman 2 font, could anyone possibly add in additional characters? If just the lowercase a-z letters were added, it would add greatly. Typing all in caps, even in an 8-bit game, feels like everyone's always shouting. I guess that works for the time period, but I think it would be better overall if I could add lower case characters.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 15, 2013, 10:31:34 am
Rule #1 of romhacking: What may be easy to do in photoshop can be a royal pain to do in the actual rom.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 16, 2013, 06:34:25 am
Alright, I've been in contact with Puresabe and we're worked out the weapons. They're now all done:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/3d6af0e71a23bcc7bca1f2755976083f/tumblr_mohel0ooJ91rc7qlzo1_1280.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 16, 2013, 08:01:22 am
Yeah that looks nothing like your photoshop stuff.  Seriously why don't you just learn how to romhack yourself?  Text romhacking is a good starting point.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Gideon Zhi on June 16, 2013, 09:52:29 am
Rule #1 of romhacking: What may be easy to do in photoshop can will be a royal pain to do in the actual rom.

Fixed that for you ;)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 16, 2013, 08:07:28 pm
ummm it's not "nothing like my photoshop stuff" it's just a grammar corrected version of the current text me and Puresabe agreed upon. That's done for now, but will still need to be overhauled later. Just not a first priority any longer.

Next is the script.

Nearly finished the Coassack defeat exchange. Waiting to hear back from Puresabe about adding the lowercase alphabet from Rockman 9.

It should be possible since the English characters overwrite the then-not needed Japanese characters in the CHR-RAM.
This gif shows the main body of the CHR-RAM in Japanese and then English modes.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5653/bdn.gif)

As there are many unused Japanese characters remaining, there is more than enough 8x8 tile places for an additional 26 lowercase English characters.

The difference will be going from

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/34ea60e99c9d0be2244eece5172ba8db/tumblr_mohk61asBO1rc7qlzo2_400.png) to  (http://24.media.tumblr.com/cd526669cdcd9224f7ef1be94d3fe0b4/tumblr_mohk61asBO1rc7qlzo1_400.png)

this is just a proof of concept though. I'll be waiting to hear from Puresabe about implementing this change.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 16, 2013, 11:42:18 pm
Nice! If you're doing grammar, you might also want to ask Puresabe(himself?! :o) if you could change the weapons & item names, like
HOLDABLE CONTROL RING BOOMERANG is a mouth full, maybe rename it as RING CATCHER, RECYCLE INHALER to RECYCLER VACUUM, and SPARK MANBOW (what's a manbow?  :P) And on the METALL'S HELMET description METALL is spelled METTAUR. And that BIRD ROBOT is BEAT, or is that BEAT is not yet formally introduced until Mega Man V?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Celice on June 17, 2013, 01:26:08 am
I personally like the Engrishy text. It really writes home the nostalgia-feeling I get, like I've just plopped down in front of the old NES few decades back :p

But next to that, I'd almost suggest not to bother with a lowercase font :/ I mean, if there's room for it, cool, but editing all the text to use the lower case seems pretty time consuming D:
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 17, 2013, 02:19:47 am
 Zynk Oxhyde: I plan on re-writing most of the text. What is posted above is simply bettering wording of the text that's already there. Because of that, re-translating those screens is a low priority. As I'm a huge Megaman fan, I agree with all your points and more. I'll let Puresabe know about your suggestions, because I agree with them, although I don't think anything is wrong with the name Recycle Inhaler.

The next step is to better re-translate the actual script itself, which although expanded from the original Rockman 4, is still limited to maybe 6 "cutscrenes" in total. For example, this is what I'm up against. Click to enlarge.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2ef4c4a18cff07db779dd8f49b417434/tumblr_mogji98VM11rc7qlzo1_1280.png)

Not AWFUL, but this can be cleaned up considerably to make it more impactful and easier to read.

Celice:

I agree that the Engrish harkens back to the true 8-bit days that gave us such lines as "Congraturations. This story is happy end." and "I feel asleep!" but I feel the Engrish serves to deminish the overall quality of this hack. If you haven't played it yourself, by all means I highly recommend it. Rockman 4 Minus Infinity is quite simply the most advanced and impressive NES hack in existence. It blows advanced hacks like Mario Adventure out of the water.

Since the text needs to be rewritten ANYWAY, I think it should be done using lowercase letters. The process to create the visual guides is indeed time consuming, but if it can be done it'll help the text from sounding like everyone is shouting constantly.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 17, 2013, 03:05:34 am
I played MI once (yeah, once, & with savestates) yet I don't remember the dialogue on those cutscenes. That's not yet edited, is it? I'm not that fluent in English, but I think their dialogues are somewhat out of character. And, could you leave out the initials for who does the talking [C:, W:, R:, ?:]? Plus, should it be ROCKMAN not MEGAMAN?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: KingMike on June 17, 2013, 09:29:37 am
SPARK MANBOW (what's a manbow?  :P)
Something once capable of being in space (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXjAW8nRGQ), apparently. :D

Maybe "mambo"?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 17, 2013, 02:37:39 pm
Zynk, that's the stock engrish.

My revised script will be much better. One of the problems is staying within the 21 characters per line limit of the text box. 21 characters get used up quickly. I'm half done this, but for this section, my revised script will be something like this:


Dr. COSSACK: W-WAIT!
LET ME EXPLAIN!

I... HAD NO CHOICE.
MY DAUGHTER KALINKA

WAS KIDNAPPED BY
DR. WILY AND HE

THREATENED TO HARM
HER UNLESS I WORKED

FOR HIM! I DID IT ALL
TO PROTECT HER!

ROCKMAN: DR. WILY
DID... WHAT!?

?: DON'T YOU HOLD YOUR
DAUGHTER'S LIFE DEAR?

DR. COSSACK: WHY YOU...!
DR. WILY: ROCKMAN!

COME TO MY FORTRESS IF
YOU WANT THE GIRL.

I'LL DESTROY YOU THERE!
HA HA HA HA!!!

ROCKMAN: DON'T WORRY.
I'LL SAVE KALINKA, SIR.

Dr. COSSACK: EVEN AFTER
ALL I'VE DONE HE HELPS?

BEAT? I THOUGHT WILY
HAD IMPRISONED YOU?

YOU SAY THE BLUE ROBOT
SAVED YOU AND YOU

HELPED HIM?
ROCKMAN...!

BEAT, HELP HIM AGAIN.
GO TO WILY'S FORTRESS!

ROCKMAN IS SO NOBLE!
BUT I'M JUST...

I'M...
......

???: HOW LONG ARE YOU
GOING TO MOPE?

BLUES: DON'T WORRY. I'M
NOT YOUR ENEMY.

EVEN IF YOUR FAMILY WAS
THREATENED, YOU WERE

WRONG TO WORK FOR WILY.
CAN YOU MAKE AMENDS?

Dr. COSSACK: ...YES I CAN
HELP ROCKMAN WITH 'THAT'!

BLUES/Dr. COSSACK: WHAT
IS THAT NOISE?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 17, 2013, 04:12:07 pm
I've been watching footage of this amazing hack, it begs for better music.  If we could change the music into all the best rockman 2 / 5 songs it would be perfect haha.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 18, 2013, 12:36:05 am
the music is painstakingly taken from other classic games and uses the MMC5 additional sound channel. Your comment about the music is like someone complaining about the music in Rockman no Constancy!

It's fine if you don't like it personally, but a lot of effort was put into this and I appreciate the effort. I love all the songs from the original Rockman series, but I'm glad that this is hack doesn't just reuse the same songs we always hear in rockman hacks. 
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 18, 2013, 12:40:49 am
Would you be using music from Rockman World games for the Gameboy? I know some hacks have those.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 19, 2013, 08:38:13 am
the music is painstakingly taken from other classic games and uses the MMC5 additional sound channel. Your comment about the music is like someone complaining about the music in Rockman no Constancy!

It's fine if you don't like it personally, but a lot of effort was put into this and I appreciate the effort. I love all the songs from the original Rockman series, but I'm glad that this is hack doesn't just reuse the same songs we always hear in rockman hacks.

Honestly I'd be happier listening to classic rockman songs with no extra sound channel.  Maybe when I get the time I'll look into how difficult it is to swap the music.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: NES Boy on June 20, 2013, 01:15:05 pm
While we're on the subject of music, I hope Dr. Cossack gets his own battle music in the next version, since he's an important boss.

And since the opening text was unchanged from its original Japanese script (original as in unmodified Rockman 4), maybe when we set the game to English we get the English opening script?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 21, 2013, 02:48:49 pm
The music has all been completely done and that's 100% finished. There'll be no changing it at this point. If you guys want to hear normal Rockman music there are...at least a hundred other hacks out there. Don't get me wrong you won't find a bigger fan of the rockman soundtracks anywhere, but what's here isn't bad and to replace such unique tracks with stuff you can hear anywhere would be a shame.

As I said, the tracks are 100% finished. There's a a complete database of all the tracks here:

https://sites.google.com/site/rockman4mi/music


The original Rock4 intro is unaltered because its a low priority. The original creator has told me that he plans to get to this eventually, as well as change the titlescreen to something with multiple frames of animation (possibly similar to the unfinished Megaman Ultra 2 beta which was also based on Rockman 4 amusingly)


So alrighty ~ moving along, I've fixed all the Engrish in the Dr. Cossack defeat cutscene:

Went from:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2ef4c4a18cff07db779dd8f49b417434/tumblr_mogji98VM11rc7qlzo1_1280.png)

to this:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/5c6b9ecf642031409fce1587a62a5b62/tumblr_mora9vBatN1rc7qlzo1_1280.png)

Let me know any suggestions or can point out any simple typos. Haven't had a chance to really go over the script - my goal here was just to create something that makes far more sense while staying within the general plot of Rock4 and staying within the character limits of what the Famicom can actually do.

Any edits keep in mind there's a 24 character per line, two lines per screen limit.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 22, 2013, 09:19:16 am
"COME ON MY FORTRESS" to "COME TO MY FORTRESS"

But you did wrote the latter a few posts ago.  :(
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 24, 2013, 05:37:37 pm
Myself + spikeman (mostly spikeman) converted the parts of this romhack that use color emphasis bits into grayscale so this amazing hack runs on a nes compatible rgb ppu chip:

(http://i.imgur.com/LTVZHvx.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/RVHQlBW.jpg)

When I pause the game and hit "b" to read about weapons tiles get messed up with this build that satoshimatrix sent me.  Other than the "help screen" being messed up this game runs 100% find on my rgb system.  I'm running this on a converted mmc5 famicom cartridge.

(http://i.imgur.com/Ue2Ja1B.jpg)

The maskrom socket has been wired so I can just burn and drop in a regular 8mbit eprom chip for future updates.  No rewiring is required for the eprom you can just straight drop in an eprom and play.  I didn't cut a single trace on the pcb.  I "borrowed" the ram chip from my mario 2 nes cart, I have multiple copies of mario usa for the famicom plus my everdrive n8 so all is good.

Of course I got satoshimatrix to contact the author of this hack asking for him to make a version with no color emphasis bits.  For some reason the author said he didn't want to do it...  That's why myself + spikeman had to do this, otherwise on a rgb system certain stages parts  of the screen are solid white.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 26, 2013, 03:07:06 am
lower case characters have been implemented, so here's a preliminary look at a cutscene with the newfangled standard font.

ignore random Kalinka in tile data. that'll be removed of course.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/b1406566209eb18785f384cb080ec0eb/tumblr_moznhpNE6x1rc7qlzo1_1280.png)

I'm mostly guessing at the exact character spacing based on the spacing I've seen in other games with this exact font. I'm pretty satisfied with it, with the exception of the p's and q's. The characters look out of place, and it almost makes me want to try to rewrite the dialogue again to avoid the use of either character. Maybe that's just because I've been staring at this font for the past few hours.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Midna on June 26, 2013, 12:40:19 pm
Looks good enough, but spaces between the comma and the rest of the text (e.g. "Rockman: Blah blah blah" instead of "Rockman:Blah blah blah") would look a lot nicer.

Also:

*My daughter Kalinka
*Dr. Wily, and I
*But I'm just...
*How long are you
*blackmailed, what you
*wrong. But you can still make amends!
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 26, 2013, 02:57:33 pm
The spacing is constricted by what the Famicom can do. Only 24 8x8 characters per line, and two lines per screen. I'm not 100% sure on the exact spacing, but even a simple comma is considered an 8x8 character so there's always gonna be a weird gap in such characters. Even so, I'm working on revising the font to be as good as possible. This is just a preliminary change.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 26, 2013, 09:06:14 pm
You could draw the periods, commas & colons at the edge of the 8x8 tile so it would look like it has space. Also try ellipses with 2 or 3 dots on one tile.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 30, 2013, 05:38:31 am
I'm working on improving a few of the sprites in the game, starting with some of the main characters since their original sprites......well they suck.

First up is Roll.

Roll doesn't actually appear in the game until the epilogue, but the Copy-Roll does, which uses a weird pallet. Gotta contact the hacker about that one, but for now I'll leave it be.

Here's the sprites I've made for the game:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2aa3fa92695b2c710d0e7227ca526496/tumblr_mp793dtKM91rc7qlzo1_250.png)

The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

I'd appreciate it if NES graphics hackers could take a look at this and tell me if I'm doing something wrong here or not. Next will be Dr. Light. I'd like to change Cossacks' pallet too, but it might conflict with Roll and Kalinka who share the same pallet when on-screen together.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on June 30, 2013, 08:08:58 am
I'm working on improving a few of the sprites in the game, starting with some of the main characters since their original sprites......well they suck.

First up is Roll.

Roll doesn't actually appear in the game until the epilogue, but the Copy-Roll does, which uses a weird pallet. Gotta contact the hacker about that one, but for now I'll leave it be.

Here's the sprites I've made for the game:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2aa3fa92695b2c710d0e7227ca526496/tumblr_mp793dtKM91rc7qlzo1_250.png)

The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

I'd appreciate it if NES graphics hackers could take a look at this and tell me if I'm doing something wrong here or not. Next will be Dr. Light. I'd like to change Cossacks' pallet too, but it might conflict with Roll and Kalinka who share the same pallet when on-screen together.

Why don't you learn a little about nes graphics hacking yourself?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on June 30, 2013, 09:47:47 am
Here's the sprites I've made for the game:

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/2aa3fa92695b2c710d0e7227ca526496/tumblr_mp793dtKM91rc7qlzo1_250.png)

The set is based on the black and white sprites from Megaman V GB. I've colorized and made some changes since then, including her traditional green hair bow.

Based on what I know of NES pallet limitations, in order to create this sprite I would need to use three sprite layers.

Heys, Satoshi_Matrix, what Roll sprites do you actually need? If its walking sprites, here's a sprite sheet from Rockman 4 brought by Spriters Inc.

(http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/Roll/R8/roll_nes_sheet.png)

Also, here is from Roll from the mobile, though she's running & I don't think you need those:

Mobile Roll
(http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/Roll/Mobile/rollsheet_mobile1.png)

Plus, I think you could color Roll's ribbon to red so you wouldn't need that green. Anyways, how do you assign "layers" to sprites?
I asked this b/c I wanted to place white on Roll's RM8 garb collar & cuff clothing. And her face tile doesn't reach her ears so I compensated it with her sideburns. And I compensated the lack of white with yellow.

(http://i.imgur.com/CUAvMRy.gif)

As shown in the pic, the above sprites are the ideal colors for Roll, while below has the colors that I have assigned without any asm hacking, I use YY-CHR for sprites.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on June 30, 2013, 02:27:10 pm
I don't want to use the original Rockman 4 Roll (even with Rush removed) because that sprite is so boring. Roll didn't have any decent 8-bit sprites until the later games, and I don't want to use the official ones if it can be helped.

The Mobile Roll is awesome, but Copy-Roll has a dialogue cutscene next to Megaman. Do a comparison - that Roll sprite towers over the Megaman sprite! There's no reason Roll should be that tall. For all their effort, Capcom made the cell phone Roll sprite too large. 

Therefore, I wanna do something custom. I know I could do Roll's hairband as red and therefore not need a third layer, but it's within the limitations and should be possible. btw, check you pms. I sent you a message about your Roll sprites.

Not sure if you know about the NES sprite limitations, so sorry if this is elementary to you.

The NES displays graphics in two categories: backgrounds and sprites. On a basic level, backgrounds are environments and sprites are characters, enemies, objects, etc. However in later NES games as complicated as Megaman titles, the line between the two is blurred, as in many cases both are animated and the later NES Megaman games are famous for dimming the background to pitch black and having Megaman face off against large enemies that are actually mostly background titles to limit the number of sprites needed, which avoids flickering, slowdown, lack of detail and a host of other benefits.

But let's ignore backgrounds for now and talk strictly about sprites. Each sprite consists of one pallet. One pallet has 4 colors. Background pallets use all 4 colors at all times, but sprites can only use 3 colors with the first "color" always being reversed for transparency. There is no avoiding this; it's how the NES was designed.

With just a single layer, most NES sprites (early games especially) look rather basic, since unless your sprite is the same color as the background, (.ie black, dark blue, etc) one of the three colors for your sprite will have to be black or other dark color, and one will have to be a bright, contrasting color to make it easily visible. That leaves you with just a single color to work with.

In 1987 with the release of Megaman 1, Capcom adopted a novel workaround for this limitation - just make your characters out of two sprite layers, effectively making them two sprites acting as one. Megaman himself and many other characters are two sprites - one is Megaman's black/blue/cyan outfit and the other is his black/white/flesh face. Since the fourth color in both pallets is transparent, this effectively creates the illusion that Megaman isn't two sprites, but one.

If you look at my Roll sprites above, mine follows this same principle - the regular Roll sprite consisting of her body shape dress and hair, a second for her skintone and face, and then an additional third layer for her hair bow. Since this pallet only consists of two colors, a third "dummy" color is used, in this case white.

Assembled, Roll consists of six colors across three sprite layers. There are NES sprites that do this already present in Rockman 4 MI, so I know it can be done.

however, I am not 100% sure it's necessary. Six colors can be done across two sprite pallets if black is eliminated from the face layer and therefore the eyes are moved to the body layer. That would free up one color for the green hair bow. but like I said I'm not 100% sure if the game would allow that, since that would need transparency around both eyes, not just the whole face. Might be a matter of efficiency given the slow clockspeed of the NES.

These are my thoughts. I'd like someone who has worked on Megaman hacks to chime in on this.


July 04, 2013, 12:29:45 am - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
It took creating and revising an entire character set, but I'm pretty happy with the my new font, and this is what will be used from this point onwards with only minor changes.

The rescue of Kalinka cutscene, with a new translation I've done. Click to enlarge.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c453d8d45f0b188e024600f9d2522e5e/tumblr_mpe9mz1jDX1rc7qlzo1_1280.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on July 06, 2013, 01:16:20 am
Here's my rendition of Roll. Should Copy Roll have those palettes? I think there should be an alt color for Copy Roll.

(http://i.imgur.com/6V2wGC9.png)

I forgot to ask if the third Copy Roll sprite should be a 'Damage' sprite or a 'Jumping' sprite, but I included it as well.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on July 19, 2013, 09:31:14 pm
Minor update. I've been working a bit on a new titlescreen.

Here's the original Rockman 4's title.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/ffbc407b2f52f24d7d9cdccedb84fcd2/tumblr_mq73mwtSoJ1rc7qlzo1_400.png)

Notice the subtitle which translates to "A New Ambition!!". Using the same tile size, I've crafted a new custom title:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/810e6ee285548220261174df77122fd9/tumblr_mq73mwtSoJ1rc7qlzo3_400.png)

Alternatively, using the tileset from Megaman 9/10, here's a further custom title with the Megaman branding rather than the original Rockman.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/ac48316fe4dcb466023ad0f817bbd2ef/tumblr_mq741a7zzs1rc7qlzo1_400.png)

What do you guys think? I'd like to improve the subtitle Minus Infinity as much as possible but I'm not a font expert. This is really maxing out my skills.

Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on July 19, 2013, 10:19:52 pm
Could you use the fonts from the Get Weapon screen on the 'Minus Infinity' title?

IMO, the font you use is a bit large.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on July 20, 2013, 02:16:58 pm
Too big? Really? The font is the exact same size as the font used for the Japanese subtitle. I matched it pixel for pixel.

The get weapon font is two color, but even more of a problem I think it's too large to use, with spacing gaps and such. I'll look into that, but I don't think it would be possible. Even so, this is very much a work in progress.

I have created what I think will be the final font set though for the regular game. I've thought about everything I could possibly want for the font.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c3376df2b383f7f9d439c100484a5668/tumblr_mq8yr3AT2Z1rc7qlzo1_400.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: OneCrudeDude on July 26, 2013, 03:50:46 am
I had an idea about hacking this game myself.  The biggest issue I have (but others don't seem to mind as much) is how Mega Man's hitstun time is drastically reduced.  This throws off my timing, and I can't get into it to re-learn a game that will kill me in 2 seconds.  An option to switch between normal (standard hit times) and hard (current hit times) would be sweet as well.

I also have a list of possible things that could be edited, but don't take it as if I demand these changes.

*This uses the MMC5, but doesn't do much in the way of sound except move the "final" phase of the Mega Buster's charge-up sound.  Maybe a cue could be taken and move most sound effects to the MMC5's square waves to prevent sound overlapping.  Again, an option between FC (MMC5 sound) or NES (standard method) would be cool as well.

*The opening custscene appears to be identical to the original game's, and when you set this game to ENG, it's still in Japanese.  Copy/pasting the MM4 intro would be a good suggestion for consistency's sake.

*Once more with the languages, maybe the title screen could change from Rock Man 4 to Mega Man 4 once the language is set.  That is, if there is enough memory.

*Optional, but supposedly this game can only work on Japanese ETROM-1s, despite there being American ETROM-1s.  Would be neat to be able to play this game on a regular NES as opposed to having to wrestle with an oversized Famicom cart that won't work with a converter.

Thanks for listening, and I hope to see my suggestions considered.   :)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Special T on July 26, 2013, 08:57:10 am
Too big? Really? The font is the exact same size as the font used for the Japanese subtitle. I matched it pixel for pixel.

The get weapon font is two color, but even more of a problem I think it's too large to use, with spacing gaps and such. I'll look into that, but I don't think it would be possible. Even so, this is very much a work in progress.

I have created what I think will be the final font set though for the regular game. I've thought about everything I could possibly want for the font.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c3376df2b383f7f9d439c100484a5668/tumblr_mq8yr3AT2Z1rc7qlzo1_400.png)

IMO, Minus Infinity font on the title screen fits perfectly and I like OneCrudeDude suggestion about the switching between rockman / megaman title screen if there is enough memory, if not I like the megaman title screen just because that's what I grew up with.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on July 26, 2013, 02:36:15 pm
I had an idea about hacking this game myself.  The biggest issue I have (but others don't seem to mind as much) is how Mega Man's hitstun time is drastically reduced.  This throws off my timing, and I can't get into it to re-learn a game that will kill me in 2 seconds.  An option to switch between normal (standard hit times) and hard (current hit times) would be sweet as well.

I don't think Puresabe would do this as the whole game is structured around the newer speed of which everything happens. It makes the original Rockman 4 look like its in slow motion. However, if YOU can figure out how to change the hittime for Rockman alone (not also the robot masters and other enemies) then see if you can do that, and then you can offer it as a standalone .ips patch once the whole thing is done, just like how there are multiple .ips patches for other Rockman hacks like No Constancy or Grey Zone. Optional difficulty reduction is good for those who may want it.

This uses the MMC5, but doesn't do much in the way of sound except move the "final" phase of the Mega Buster's charge-up sound.  Maybe a cue could be taken and move most sound effects to the MMC5's square waves to prevent sound overlapping.  Again, an option between FC (MMC5 sound) or NES (standard method) would be cool as well.

That's an excellent idea! Are you able to do that yourself? I'll ask Puresabe about this as it's a minor change that could have a great benefit.


The opening custscene appears to be identical to the original game's, and when you set this game to ENG, it's still in Japanese.  Copy/pasting the MM4 intro would be a good suggestion for consistency's sake.

I've already asked about this. Puresabe plans to remove this to fee up additional space in ROM for the post-game special mode, or use the space to create a new intro or animated titlescreen. This is a work in progress that's to be left unaltered until later as its a low priority.



Once more with the languages, maybe the title screen could change from Rock Man 4 to Mega Man 4 once the language is set.  That is, if there is enough memory.

I think this should be possible. The Rockman and Megaman logos as seen above share the same tileset for the "Man 4" so I'll ask Puresabe about this directly.



supposedly this game can only work on Japanese ETROM-1s, despite there being American ETROM-1s.  Would be neat to be able to play this game on a regular NES as opposed to having to wrestle with an oversized Famicom cart that won't work with a converter.

Where did you hear that? ETROM is ETROM. It shouldn't matter if its 72 pins or 60 pins.


IMO, Minus Infinity font on the title screen fits perfectly and I like OneCrudeDude suggestion about the switching between rockman / megaman title screen if there is enough memory, if not I like the megaman title screen just because that's what I grew up with.

You like my mock up font eh? I think it does look pretty decent, but I'd like someone who maybe has experience in titlescreen hacks to see if they can come up with something better.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: OneCrudeDude on July 26, 2013, 04:58:07 pm
I can't tell if you're being snarky or think that I do know how to hack.  Of course I can't hack, I have more important things in life than to screw around with gibberish hexadecimal that was set in stone 20 years ago by overworked, underpaid Japanese programmers.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on July 27, 2013, 12:33:37 pm
not sure if trolling or just unintentionally insulted.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: M-Tee on July 28, 2013, 12:29:08 am
Too big? Really? The font is the exact same size as the font used for the Japanese subtitle. I matched it pixel for pixel.

I believe the issue is not physical size, but visual weight. The MINUS INFINITY is visually heavier than the original Japanese text due to large, uninterrupted, simple white shapes. The Japanese characters were more intricate (by nature) and therefore, the white space was broken up much more so. The new subtitle logo competes with the main title logo, the older one did not. To compensate for this, the new title should be visually weakened. This can be done in size, line weight, caps/lowercase, color, etc.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: OneCrudeDude on July 28, 2013, 03:06:12 am
not sure if trolling or just unintentionally insulted.

I apologize, I thought you were being snarky and knew how to hack yourself.  I decided to read through the thread entirely to see what you were going at.

As a compromise, I have a good idea of how the NES handles colors.  You wanted Roll to have her traditional colors plus a green bow?  That can be done, given that you only have her and Mega Man onscreen.  The NES uses 8 total palettes, 4 for sprites and 4 for backgrounds.  Mega Man uses two himself, with the second one (eyes/face) being used everywhere else.  Roll just needs two palettes for her dress and bow.  There might be flicker considering the layering, though.

As a matter of fact, I'm no programming expert though, I even came up with a way for Splash Woman to work on an NES.  She was long considered to be "impossible" to render, but in reality she is.  Just wish I could program...
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on July 28, 2013, 05:54:25 am
I believe the issue is not physical size, but visual weight. The MINUS INFINITY is visually heavier than the original Japanese text due to large, uninterrupted, simple white shapes. The Japanese characters were more intricate (by nature) and therefore, the white space was broken up much more so. The new subtitle logo competes with the main title logo, the older one did not. To compensate for this, the new title should be visually weakened. This can be done in size, line weight, caps/lowercase, color, etc.

I hear what you're saying. I didn't consider caps. I could try to come up with some lowercase characters in my weird font. Still, I'd rather someone with some artistic skill could come up with something. I've seen some pretty amazing titlescreen hacks for various Megaman games that make my mockup look pitiful.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on August 04, 2013, 07:44:31 am
Where did you hear that? ETROM is ETROM. It shouldn't matter if its 72 pins or 60 pins.

Wait...I thought this thing uses the mmc5 audio capabilities meaning it would need to be run in a famicom.  The game doesn't have to be built out of an "etrom" pcb, any mmc5 pcb can be converted.  I built a copy out of a spare just breed ekrom pcb and a ram chip I borrowed from a mario 2 nes cart, it runs fine.

Onecrudedude satoshimatrix can't romhack.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: KingMike on August 04, 2013, 10:52:51 am
Just Breed? :(

I thought the Koei games were considered better Famicom donors (more common and less wanted).
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on August 05, 2013, 12:06:11 am
Just Breed? :(

I thought the Koei games were considered better Famicom donors (more common and less wanted).

I had just breed sitting around and I already have another.  MI is way better than just breed.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on August 05, 2013, 02:38:40 am
Wait...I thought this thing uses the mmc5 audio capabilities meaning it would need to be run in a famicom.

No. The current versions of Minus Infinity do not use the MMC5's additional square waves. Any MMC5 board could work assuming work ram and battery backed s-ram are in place. 72-pin ETROM boards are just as capable as 60-pin boards are. The only difference is that 72-pin ETROM games are in the $50-80 range whereas the Famicom versions are in the $5-15 range.

Also, the statement that Minus Infinity is better than Just Breed is the preverbal comparing apples to oranges. Minus Infinity and Just Breed aren't even close to being similar.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: OneCrudeDude on August 09, 2013, 01:31:48 am
Just Breed is a weird game.  A neat, nice looking RPG, but it has this uncanny Micronics feel to it, especially the music.

Also, MI -does- use the extra sound chip, but for only one thing.  When you charge up the buster, the final phase's "wawawawa" sound is allocated to those two.  Play the game in FCEUX and disable all (NES; expanded audio has no volume sliders) sound channels, and the MMC5 channels will play.

With this in mind, using the MMC5 to play sound effects would be great, especially if it would be possible to add an option to choose between "NES" (5 channel) or "FC" (5+3).
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Drakon on August 12, 2013, 08:59:50 pm
I seriously thought he'd use the extra mmc5 sound capabilities.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: OneCrudeDude on August 13, 2013, 11:12:54 pm
He probably used MMC5 for functions first, and sound second.  If he wanted music, he would've opted with the VRC chips, but even then, they'd only make the music with Famitracker.  I don't think there has been a music hack that uses expanded audio.

Granted the sound effect isolation thing would be neat, though.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on August 24, 2013, 04:13:51 am
Haven't publicly posted any updates in a bit, but work continues!

Next, I work on better weapon descriptions. Using the original Engrish and kuja killer's descriptions for the 0.01 beta as a base, I also looked at how Megaman Powered Up, Maverick Hunter X and a few other official Megaman games word weapon descriptions. I've also cross referenced the material with the Megaman wiki and other sources.

First up is the all important Mega Buster. Tell me what you guys think.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/e5e60b47bb52b1101186ada42ab965f1/tumblr_ms0zrdnf8H1rc7qlzo1_400.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on August 24, 2013, 07:09:15 am
Does it really say Rail Shot? And MAGA BUSTER?  :huh:
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on August 24, 2013, 06:20:05 pm
The "Rail Shot' is unique to this hack. It's the name of the charge shot here.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on December 05, 2013, 11:47:00 pm
Months have passed with no updates?  :(
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: NES Boy on February 03, 2014, 06:46:50 am
Version 0.02 has been released, but since it doesn't have the retranslation yet, I'd like to propose a new option in the configuration menu to replace the space saying "ENGLISH COMING SOON":
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/viwty.gif)
This setting would let the player play the game with his or her perferred character names. This should change any instance of the character's name appearing in some way (for example, if Rockman gets sucked up by Dust Man's Recycle Inhaler, he could be trapped in an M-Tank or an R-Tank, depending on if the player perfers the name Mega Man or not).
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 03, 2014, 07:22:52 pm
This project is far from dead, I just haven't made any public announcements. The 0.02 prealpha doesn't contain any of my work as I requested presebe didn't include the partial translation I've produced so far.

However, this entire project is very close to being finished, so now more than ever, "ENGLISH COMING SOON" applies and will not be removed until it is replaced by my entire English script.

I've been working with Persebe on this and most things are finished now, with only some exchanges needing to be adjusted.

Before releas,e I will update you guys with previews of the new version. The 0.02 release is a pre-alpha, and lacks currently everything that I've done as I've been working on other projects that require my attention first.

The R-Tank changes probably won't happen, as those are sprites, and would thus require two sets of sprites. I've created a revised font only; something like that is too minor to change the roles.

I've also been toying with the idea of leaving the names in rōmaji - Rockman, Dr. Right, Blues, etc. I'm probably going to lean towards using English names, but not capslock English names.

Anyhow, I'll update you guys with some new info soon.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: NES Boy on February 04, 2014, 01:39:28 am
The R-Tank changes probably won't happen, as those are sprites, and would thus require two sets of sprites. I've created a revised font only; something like that is too minor to change the roles.
Even so, I've tried my hand at making an M-Tank Mega Man tileset:

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/lwo2u.png)

It's a rather simple edit of the M-Tank from Mega Man 5. I'm not satisfied with how the horizontally stetched can looks, but it's all I had to work with.

While I'm at it, I thought I'd take a look at Mega Man's Sakugarne sprites:

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/lk1ie.png)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/2cv4n.png)

The top row is the original tileset, the middle row shows the tiles assembled into how they look as the finished sprites before being layered, and the bottom row shows the whole sprites.

I've made a slight improvement on the tiles:

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/hiae3.png)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/ew1pl.png)

What I mainly did is get rid of the black outline around Mega Man's face. It was a holdover from the original Game Boy sprites, which only had a monochrome palette. Since the sprites were converted into colorful NES sprites, the outline was unnecessary, so the edit was done for the sake of consistency with Mega Man's original NES sprites. I also fixed an error on the Sakurgarne layer, which had one of Mega Man's feet still in the second frame.

And finally, another suggestion for the configuration menu:

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/gwyj4.png)

Since some games have the option to enable or disable music and sound effects, I think Minus Infinity would have it as well. Useful if you want to replace the music in gameplay videos without having to lose the sound effects.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 04, 2014, 09:04:22 pm
I'll run these by Puresabe and see what he says. thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 12, 2014, 10:37:00 pm
I've got my master character set pretty much finished now, but I'd like some advice. I've looked at dozens of 8x8 fonts used in NES, Famicom, GameBoy and GameBoy Color games for reference.

I'd like to add a subtitle for the game, as Puresabe has said that he isn't a sprite artist. I am, but just not a very skilled one.

Here's my initial work, based on Yuki Miyuki's Rockman 5 Air Sliding title.


(https://24.media.tumblr.com/e82519e7946415a42835fd831c24e184/tumblr_n0x0nynNNH1rc7qlzo1_1280.png)

What do you guys think?

I'm not 100% satisfied with the Y, and to a lesser degree the F and M.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: KingMike on February 13, 2014, 01:00:13 am
With the M, you should probably think about giving the right side a top-right-to-bottom-left angle so it looks more consistent with the other letters.
And the Y probably needs a more consistent slope. Especially on the right side it just jumps a few pixels over. Can you widen it to give it a more gradual slope?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 13, 2014, 04:05:28 am
I see what you're saying, but I'm not that skilled at titles. Could you show me what you mean?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Zynk on February 13, 2014, 08:06:33 am
Version 0.02 has been released, but since it doesn't have the retranslation yet, I'd like to propose a new option in the configuration menu to replace the space saying "ENGLISH COMING SOON":
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/viwty.gif)
This setting would let the player play the game with his or her perferred character names. This should change any instance of the character's name appearing in some way (for example, if Rockman gets sucked up by Dust Man's Recycle Inhaler, he could be trapped in an M-Tank or an R-Tank, depending on if the player perfers the name Mega Man or not).
You forgot about the title logo. If you're pushing for "Rockman" to "Mega Man", the title logo should also do the same, right?
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 13, 2014, 04:18:29 pm
No. The title will be static, not something that is altered by the translation. It will always and forever be Rockman 4 Minus Infinity. Puresabe has been quite clear on this.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Midna on February 13, 2014, 04:35:57 pm
I think most people who know about the game are familiar with it as Rockman 4 Minus Infinity anyway. Suddenly changing it to Mega Man IV Minus Infinity wouldn't feel right.
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: Satoshi_Matrix on February 13, 2014, 05:05:45 pm
Could someone help me with correcting the M to the style of the rest of the font? I've been fiddling this for the last hour, and no matter what I do I can't get the M to look any better than my initial effort.

(https://31.media.tumblr.com/29f499a114546c4ca64d33ff137588fc/tumblr_n0yfzatCx81rc7qlzo1_400.png)
Title: Re: Rockman 4 MI re-translation project
Post by: aitchfactor on December 06, 2018, 06:09:04 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Vz0AmtZ.png)

Comically late reply, I know, but you should try this on for size.