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Romhacking => Script Help and Language Discussion => Topic started by: M-Tee on April 10, 2013, 12:52:57 pm

Title: Shogi, Warpman, etc.
Post by: M-Tee on April 10, 2013, 12:52:57 pm
I'm currently working on a romhack of a Shogi title (http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,16132.msg240148.html#msg240148). There's very little in terms of text in this game, and context makes most of them clear, but some leave me stumped and the others, I'd like to get some clarification if possible.

(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiText01.png)
This word balloon pops up if you press the B button repeatedly. If you make it come up a half dozen times or so, the opponent will retract one move.

(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiText02.png)
I suspect that these are Easy/Hard levels for the A.I, as you cycle through the two prior to selecting a match.  They are shown before the selection for the CPU to go first or second. If I'm wrong, please correct. If right, I don't know which is which.
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: DarknessSavior on April 10, 2013, 02:34:27 pm
The first one says マッタ, which is a term for when you want to take back a move you made (the dictionary definition says "backsies").

The second one is just "None" or "Some/Yes". I'm assuming it is probably an option for a Handicap. So you could put it as "Off" and "On".

~DS
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: M-Tee on April 10, 2013, 11:52:39 pm
Thanks. Now I'm a bit confused with the second one. Let me give the full menu context.

You use the select button to cycle through combinations of the following prior to starting a match. The left side is the human player, the right, the computer. Either player can have option A-D, and the computer can have G or F with each from A-D:

(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiText03.png)

What I believe of the following
A. First Move
B. Second Move
C. Rook Omitted (Handicap)
D. Two Pieces Omitted (Handicap)
E. Versus (?)
G. Some/Yes/On
F. None

The game, by the way is 本将棋 内藤九段将棋秘伝 (Honshogi: Naitou Kudan Shogi Hiden). There's a gamefaq  (http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/578247-hon-shogi-naitou-kudan-shogi-hiden/faqs/53797)up for it, but I think the guy just dropped G and F into Google translate and returned the phonetic result. F is the default, and I can't play Shogi well enough to tell the difference in A.I. if that's it. Is it noticeable from context if On or Off is for a higher difficulty on or off or a lower difficulty on or off?
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: LostTemplar on April 11, 2013, 04:23:31 am
E 時間制限 time limit　
G アリ on
F ナシ off
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: M-Tee on April 11, 2013, 04:54:48 am
Awesome. My arbitrary guess had failed me.

Thanks!

EDIT:
Spoiler:
I also feel like a tool because trying each option repeatedly to determine the difference, I never noticed the presence of a big clock half of the time.

Menu inserted. Thanks again.
(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiScreen01.gif)


April 12, 2013, 10:35:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiSprites05.png)

Above are my attempts at Kanji playing pieces using the abbreviations listed on Wikipedia:
王, 飛, 角, 金, 銀, 桂, 香, 歩,
     竜, 馬,      全, 圭, 杏, と

For those that can read it, play shogi, and/or have had to deal with tons of tiny pixelized Kanji, do these read well enough? Do any read incorrectly or would you suggest any changes?
Title: Was Shogi, now Warpman questions
Post by: M-Tee on December 05, 2013, 10:48:31 am
No need to start a new thread.

Quick question:
Was looking through the enemy designs for Warpman, and noticed that some of the names seem to be very specific instead of "arbitrary enemy design" which I was expecting. I'm doing some redesigns of these enemies and was wondering if there're any traits alluded to by their names that I would need to adhere to.  (google image search for kuwagattan brings up a lot of stag beetle images, so I can make an assumption there. Nothing from the rest though.)

(http://files.mteegfx.com/warpmanmanualpage.png)

romanization from wikistrategy: Velos, Doppe, Garamo, Kuwagattan, Onigamaran & Shishitogarin

(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/9/99/Warpman_Velo_LtGreen.png)(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/b/b4/Warpman_Doppe_Orange.png)(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/7/76/Warpman_Garamo_LtGreen.png)(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/4/4b/Warpman_Kuwagattan.png)(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/d/db/Warpman_Onigamaran.png)(http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/e/e6/Warpman_Shishitogarin.png)


tl;dr are any of these enemy names specific with real meanings?
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: BRPXQZME on December 05, 2013, 11:45:05 am
The ones that seem most clearly related to real words:
berobero - lick, lap, slurp
kuwagata - that antler-like (“hoe-shaped”) crest on samurai helmets (hence certain bugs’ names in Japanese)

The rest seem like they might correspond to real words, but I can’t seem to draw the connections.
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: DarknessSavior on December 05, 2013, 11:50:04 am
Quote from: M_tee on April 11, 2013, 04:54:48 am

(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiSprites05.png)

Above are my attempts at Kanji playing pieces using the abbreviations listed on Wikipedia:
王, 飛, 角, 金, 銀, 桂, 香, 歩,
     竜, 馬,      全, 圭, 杏, と
I know you changed the game for this topic, but I just noticed this.

The 金 and 銀 are hard to read. And the 桂/圭is flat out wrong (it should be two 土 stacked on top of each-other and it's clearly not). The bottom of the 杏 should be 口.  There is no line sticking out of the top of the 王 in 全. The other ones are good, though.

~DS
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: M-Tee on December 05, 2013, 12:28:28 pm
Thanks, man. I'll take another pass at those.

Also, yeah. that explains the stag beetle shapes, and the one with the tongue. I especially wonder about the last two creatures. Their names seem very specific.
Title: Re: Warpman enemy names
Post by: pmt7ar on December 12, 2013, 02:59:43 am
アリ=with
ナシ=without
... perfectly an on/off setting

Quote
April 12, 2013, 10:35:41 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiSprites05.png)

Above are my attempts at Kanji playing pieces using the abbreviations listed on Wikipedia:
王, 飛, 角, 金, 銀, 桂, 香, 歩,
     竜, 馬,      全, 圭, 杏, と

For those that can read it, play shogi, and/or have had to deal with tons of tiny pixelized Kanji, do these read well enough? Do any read incorrectly or would you suggest any changes?
You can check the pieces on wikipedia: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/将棋
they are not actual kanji because the pixel restriction, there are several strokes missing

black pieces are the basic and the red below are they respective promotions:
王: King
飛: Rook (red 竜: Promoted rook)
角: Bishop (red 馬 : Promoted bishop)
金: Gold General
銀: Silver General　(red 全: Promoted silver general)
桂: Knight (red 圭: Promoted knight)
香: Lancer (red 杏: Promoted  lancer)
歩: Pawn (red と: Promoted pawn)


Title: Re: Warpman enemy names
Post by: M-Tee on December 12, 2013, 08:40:10 am
Thank, I got that much. I'm actually finished with the Shogi hack, just waiting to make a manual. I like to make mockup manual scans and cartscans when I release hacks. I might take another pass at the Kanji based on DS's suggestions. Although one of the corrections I think would be impossible at the resolution.

Now, I'm more interested in the warpman enemy names if you cab offer some insight into that. They seem to plays on words, and two have beeb figured out so far.
Title: Re: Was Shogi, now Warpman questions
Post by: pmt7ar on December 12, 2013, 10:50:43 am
Bero: onomatopeia of sticking one's tongue out (neener)
Onigaraman: "oni" from demon
Shishitogarin: "togarin" from spiky, pointy?

i'm clueless about the others
Title: Re: Warpman enemy names
Post by: M-Tee on December 12, 2013, 08:37:05 pm
Thanks.
Title: Re: Shogi terminology
Post by: M-Tee on January 25, 2014, 12:56:11 pm
Quote from: DarknessSavior on December 05, 2013, 11:50:04 am
The 金 and 銀 are hard to read. And the 桂/圭is flat out wrong (it should be two 土 stacked on top of each-other and it's clearly not). The bottom of the 杏 should be 口.  There is no line sticking out of the top of the 王 in 全. The other ones are good, though.

@DS
Thanks for the attention to this.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can do anything about the 銀. There's only so many pixels to work with, and I think I've gone through every possible combination. (I can't extend to the edges of the pieces because the edge tiles are shared.)

For 金, 桂 / 圭 and 王 / 全, I've made changes.

As for "The bottom of the 杏 should be 口," I honestly don't see the difference. I see a horizontal rectangle with a pixel extending down off the left and right sides each.

Perhaps you could explain better.

(http://files.mteegfx.com/ShogiSpritesN.png)
Title: Re: Shogi, Warpman, etc.
Post by: wyndcrosser on January 27, 2014, 05:41:31 pm
M-Tee nice work.