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General Category => News Submissions => Topic started by: RHDNBot on January 24, 2012, 03:24:04 am

Title: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: RHDNBot on January 24, 2012, 03:24:04 am
(http://www.romhacking.net/newsimages/newsimage1215a.jpg)

Update By: Draken

It looks like Dynamic Designs has gotten another release ready just in time for the New Year!  Er... Lunar New Year that is!

That wonderful little gem, Silva Saga-II, has now been totally translated and is ready for the public.  A great number of very talented folks came together to get this classic game done and out the door.  Countless numbers of hours were spent working hard to deliver a game with a beautifully polished script and look.

If you've been missing out on that great SNES RPG nostalgia, then check out the patch and head on over to the D-D!

RHDN Project Page (http://www.romhacking.net/translations/1698/)

Relevant Link: (http://www.dynamic-designs.us/silvasaga2.shtml)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: DaMarsMan on January 24, 2012, 11:32:02 am
Great job! Another one of those games I thought I'd never get to see in English!!!


 8)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Special T on January 24, 2012, 12:00:42 pm
That's awesome, thanks for another great release   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: heratio on January 24, 2012, 12:43:00 pm
I finished the first Silva Saga so I will definitely try this out.  Thank you for finishing it.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 24, 2012, 01:06:07 pm
We are happy to see many people were quietly waiting for this release
and that the dedication we put into it achieved the most important
result: spreading classic RPG greatness to everyone.

We at D-D will certainly deliver more quality releases
this year, so keep your eyes peeled!
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: ded302 on January 24, 2012, 02:50:14 pm
I've been waiting quietly for this release ever since I helped one of your translators with the rom expansion work in Silva Saga One that was able to let the item names have long names without even having a 2 line item hack with expanded item boxes that took only 2 bytes to make bigger. I got recruited to help because I traced and debugged the code that loaded the shifted bytes that were the box sizes themselves. Thanks for the release. Also, I was not trying to brag.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Bongo` on January 24, 2012, 07:06:11 pm
I've been waiting quietly for this release ever since I helped one of your translators with the rom expansion work in Silva Saga One that was able to let the item names have long names without even having a 2 line item hack with expanded item boxes that took only 2 bytes to make bigger. I got recruited to help because I traced and debugged the code that loaded the shifted bytes that were the box sizes themselves. Thanks for the release. Also, I was not trying to brag.

  Ah c'mon! You know you were bragging! :happy:
Us Hackers and coders are like offensive linemen in football. We do all the grunt work
but get little to none of the spotlight. :)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Kronus_Arm on January 24, 2012, 08:03:27 pm
Thank you and congrats on the release! Loving every minute of game!  :beer:

I hope Burning Hero or Chaos Seed comes next.  ;D
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: elricorico on January 25, 2012, 03:29:12 am
Nice!  I thought the first game was pretty good (although too easy), so this is going on my "to play" list.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 25, 2012, 08:29:26 am
Nice job on the release guys. This one was a long time coming. That's also one less game on my list I have to do. Looking forward to your next release as you've got some nice projects lined up. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Validus on January 25, 2012, 08:54:37 am
YESS!!! hopefully one day every SNES rpg shall be translated! We are down to  a final few


I also loved part one on the NESter
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 25, 2012, 01:13:44 pm
Thanks for the positive feedback everyone.

Quote from: Kronus_Arm
I hope Burning Hero or Chaos Seed comes next.  ;D

Yes, these will most likely be our next releases, and both are quite good games.

Quote from: elricorico
Nice!  I thought the first game was pretty good (although too easy), so this is going on my "to play" list.

Its nice that you played the games in order, the continuity makes a lot more sense then.
Hope you enjoy it.

Quote from: Nightcrawler
Nice job on the release guys. This one was a long time coming.

Quite true and we are happy to have helped it see the light of day.

Quote from: Validus
YESS!!! hopefully one day every SNES rpg shall be translated! We are down to  a final few

I share that hope as well, the SNES was a gold mine of good RPGs.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: fireball on January 25, 2012, 01:51:24 pm
Great work  :beer: I really did enjoy the first one so this will definitely be on my list next.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Aquillion on January 25, 2012, 03:40:09 pm
Haa.  I assume that this bug is in the original game, but it's still amusing:

When you have mercenaries or idols fight a battle, you can cancel out with 'B' at any time.  This ends the turn immediately after whoever's acting at the moment completes their action -- not at the end of the turn, but the moment whoever is currently attacking finishes resolving their attack, denying everyone who hasn't acted yet their action for that turn.  It then takes you back to the input screen to select who acts in the next turn.  Simple, right?  This means that if you have a mercenary or idol who's faster than the enemy, you can have them attack forever without ever giving the enemy a turn, simply by starting their turn, then immediately canceling during their attack, then selecting them again...

January 25, 2012, 04:11:42 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Ah, here's a proper bug report for the translation:

(http://i.imgur.com/wn49T.png)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 25, 2012, 05:07:16 pm
It looks like an overrun.
I'm pretty sure I checked throughly for those,
but that one somehow got past my fine toothed comb.

Thanks for reporting it, will be fixed for the next revision.

Edit: The combat behavior you observed is most likely
a programming oversight in the original code.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Bongo` on January 25, 2012, 06:41:39 pm
Haa.  I assume that this bug is in the original game, but it's still amusing:

When you have mercenaries or idols fight a battle, you can cancel out with 'B' at any time.  This ends the turn immediately after whoever's acting at the moment completes their action -- not at the end of the turn, but the moment whoever is currently attacking finishes resolving their attack, denying everyone who hasn't acted yet their action for that turn.  It then takes you back to the input screen to select who acts in the next turn.  Simple, right?  This means that if you have a mercenary or idol who's faster than the enemy, you can have them attack forever without ever giving the enemy a turn, simply by starting their turn, then immediately canceling during their attack, then selecting them again...

January 25, 2012, 04:11:42 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Ah, here's a proper bug report for the translation:

(http://i.imgur.com/wn49T.png)

thank you!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Aquillion on January 25, 2012, 08:17:39 pm
Here's another minor one.

(http://i.imgur.com/GMjyq.png)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Tomato on January 26, 2012, 09:07:17 am
For some reason I seem to remember j2e planning on working on this like 12 years ago. Awesome to see that it's finally been translated  :beer:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 26, 2012, 01:24:09 pm
J2E hm?
Those guys were great, I remember
playing their FF5 patch to death, it
was one of the few translated games
I knew of back then.

Hopefully we achieved a degree of quality
that would've made them proud.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: KingMike on January 26, 2012, 08:01:13 pm
RPGe did FF5.

j2e was probably best known for their FF4 translation.
They also did Violinist of Hameln, and Fire Emblem Gaiden (before it was well-known) :) (the original? Can't remember if Artemis' was a retranslation or a bugfix).
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Jarlaxle on January 26, 2012, 08:02:29 pm
Absolute legends. Thanks for your ace effort with this game and all past and future projects. I still can't really get myself to play new-age RPGs on the Xbox 360/PS3, when there are still so many excellent gems on the SNES I haven't touched. Keep it up, your work is much appreciated. Cheers.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 26, 2012, 09:24:46 pm
RPGe did FF5.

j2e was probably best known for their FF4 translation.
They also did Violinist of Hameln, and Fire Emblem Gaiden (before it was well-known) :) (the original? Can't remember if Artemis' was a retranslation or a bugfix).

Good point, I guess I mixed up the FFs there, thanks for the clarification.
I also played FEG plenty, same for FF4.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Bongo` on January 26, 2012, 09:44:45 pm
Here's another minor one.

(http://i.imgur.com/GMjyq.png)
Hey! Who added those spaces in that code???  :banghead:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 26, 2012, 11:20:02 pm
Probably an oversight of mine Bongo' sorry there.
I wanted search strings to be standardized and I might have dozed off in
this case.
This find is already slated for fixing towards the next revision though.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 27, 2012, 08:26:10 am
Please consider trimming several pixels off the spaces too for the next revision. The VWF and font looks great, but the words are awkwardly spaced, which hinders reading.

Your space is roughly 10 pixels wide, while your average character width is 5 wide. This  makes  it  appear  like  there  are  two  spaces  between  every  word and  makes  reading  more  difficult.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: mziab on January 27, 2012, 09:34:33 am
Your space is roughly 10 pixels wide, while your average character width is 5 wide. This  makes  it  appear  like  there  are  two  spaces  between  every  word and  makes  reading  more  difficult.

Actually, those are two spaces, at least between sentences. It seems WildBill and the team choose to abide by the "two spaces after punctuation" rule.

EDIT: You are right, though. It seems like regular spaces are indeed 10 pixels wide.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Klaviaturist on January 27, 2012, 12:29:34 pm
Great job guys! I wasn't a fan of Minelvaton Saga but the second game wasn't too shabby. Looking forward to finally checking this one out.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 27, 2012, 01:53:43 pm
Actually, those are two spaces, at least between sentences. It seems WildBill and the team choose to abide by the "two spaces after punctuation" rule.

EDIT: You are right, though. It seems like regular spaces are indeed 10 pixels wide.

We'll see what can be done about this, thanks for the observation.

Quote from: Klaviaturist
Great job guys! I wasn't a fan of Minelvaton Saga but the second game wasn't too shabby. Looking forward to finally checking this one out.

Thank you, we firmly believe this game is fit to be the crowning jewel of this fine series.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Snatcher on January 27, 2012, 02:00:44 pm
Haven't been on the forums in a while. Just dropped in to say great work and hope to see more future releases from you guys.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Bongo` on January 27, 2012, 06:32:07 pm
Please consider trimming several pixels off the spaces too for the next revision. The VWF and font looks great, but the words are awkwardly spaced, which hinders reading.

Your space is roughly 10 pixels wide, while your average character width is 5 wide. This  makes  it  appear  like  there  are  two  spaces  between  every  word and  makes  reading  more  difficult.
  :o Wow! I just checked the width for spaces and it's set to a default of 8!? I guess I didn't adjust accordingly. I'm thinking maybe 5 or 6 pixels would do for this font...
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: BRPXQZME on January 27, 2012, 07:30:16 pm
The usual recommendation for a ragged-right setting is to make it the same width as an n, then adjust if necessary.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: mziab on January 28, 2012, 10:37:51 am
Here's a minor capitalization mistake I noticed near the beginning:
(http://wstaw.org/m/2012/01/28/Silva_Saga_II_-_The_Legend_of_Light_and_Darkness_J-20120128-033350.png)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Nightcrawler on January 28, 2012, 12:03:24 pm
I'm thinking maybe 5 or 6 pixels would do for this font...

I agree. Personally, I'd lean toward 5 unless that makes it look like a run-on. I believe that would also match BRPXQZME's suggestion as width of an 'n'.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: aishsha on January 28, 2012, 12:59:15 pm
Glad it's done during my hiatus - great job, guys :) Now the only thing left for me to look at is that GD Leen thingy )))
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Eien Ni Hen on January 28, 2012, 01:26:56 pm
So far I'm enjoying the game a lot, but I found a couple of problems.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/EienNiHen/ss-error1.jpg)

I hope the "KKK" was placeholder text?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/EienNiHen/ss-error2.jpg)

This sounds SO Engrishy. "[Character] used the item." would sound much better.

Lastly, I'm bothered by the choice to leave "Bakemono" as-is instead of localizing the word. I'm guessing it's supposed to refer to a higher level of monster in the game, like a mini-boss. There are so many better options in English, though. (Fiend, Hellbeast, etc.) You may want to consider changing it for the next patch.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 28, 2012, 01:34:28 pm
Okay, first, thanks for the input, Eien. I'll give you one answer at a time.

1) Its no place holder, but I'm not sure how that got there either.
Item descriptions and line limits for them are very whimscal in the engine,
but something like that never surfaced during testing. We'll look into it.

2) We'll consider it, thanks.

3) You are correct, it does refer to higher ranking Zuhl minions.
We'll consider your input thanks.

January 28, 2012, 01:36:14 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
Glad it's done during my hiatus - great job, guys :) Now the only thing left for me to look at is that GD Leen thingy )))

Thanks.
We greatly appreciate your help in standardizing several odds and ends so
that the trilogy remains consistent, it certainly helps player immersion while
connecting the NES games and this one.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Trixar_za on January 28, 2012, 11:53:58 pm
I'm experiencing a weird bug.

I was on my way to the Ice Cave (I think that's what it's called) when I died. I got revived by the God of destiny (the text was corrupted like below) and then this started happening with every NPC I talk to:
(http://trixarian.net/silva02.png)

Also with shops or inns I get the following flood of characters when I buy something from the NPC:
(http://trixarian.net/silva01.png)

It worked fine up until I died and got revived.

There is also weird blocks on the travel map screen using the new rendering engine in ZSNES, but this happens in other games too, so it's probably ZSNES. Not using it or the old rendering engine works without this issue.

If you want my ZSNES save state and save file, here you go: http://trixarian.net/silva.zip (http://trixarian.net/silva.zip)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 29, 2012, 12:32:08 am
Thank you for the report, we will look into it.
Keep in mind however that Zsnes is a problematic choice for
running this particular game, and what you are experiencing
is most likely a side effect of that.

Edit: I ran a test and it seems I was correct.
I loaded your save on Snes9x, SnesGT and and BSNES
and there were no post death anomalies whatsoever,
so please use your SRAM to continue your game in
any of the emulators I outlined above.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: heratio on January 29, 2012, 04:51:28 am
For those that have played the game, does it matter if I just keep my original mercenaries or is it a good idea to get new ones occasionally?
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 29, 2012, 11:59:56 am
Mercs are an investment really, so you should hire early and keep them (try hiring a full party ASAP).
Hiring new ones isn't really needed as the changes are mainly their base levels and the price, as I recall.

The only time when you should think about re-hiring is when one dies. Then go to the latest town
you've been at and hire one from there, but the game won't cut you slacks about level differences,
so keep that in mind, and good luck.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Recca on January 29, 2012, 02:08:11 pm
I kept the original mercs that I hired throughout the entire game, I never lost any. It's better this way, as you don't have to hire new ones (they cost more later on) and nor do you have to level them up or re-equip them again. If a merc dies in battle, their equipment also disappears, so it's a good idea to keep them alive. Which shouldn't be a problem, seeing as how they're quite strong.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Aquillion on January 30, 2012, 09:30:20 pm
Almost too strong, seeing as how they heal completely after every fight!  I'm pretty sure that wasn't in Silva Saga I...  it makes the idols much more useful, but it also makes it tempting to just rely on the mercs to slaughter everything (which I assume would be a bad idea, since they probably can't handle later bosses on their own.  My mercs have completely wiped the floor with absolutely everything else I threw them at, though, and they're just starting mercs who have leveled outrageously from all the stuff they murdered.)

There's something mildly amusing about having the townsfolk begging me to kill a monster; idly marching up to it, snapping my fingers, and doing my nails while my mercs splatter it all over the wall; then coming back to collect a reward...  also, apparently 100 gold is enough to make these guys my slaves for their entire lives?  It was more amusing in the first game, where it fit in with how you'd expect a prince to actually handle all these things, but it's still amusing here.

EDIT:  Back on the subject of the translation, I thought the Bakemono thing was a bit weird, too.  And I didn't even notice the space thing until it was mentioned here, but now it feels like everyone is talking - like - this!
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on January 30, 2012, 11:35:19 pm
Almost too strong, seeing as how they heal completely after every fight!  I'm pretty sure that wasn't in Silva Saga I...  it makes the idols much more useful, but it also makes it tempting to just rely on the mercs to slaughter everything (which I assume would be a bad idea, since they probably can't handle later bosses on their own.  My mercs have completely wiped the floor with absolutely everything else I threw them at, though, and they're just starting mercs who have leveled outrageously from all the stuff they murdered.)

Mercenaries are a powerful asset yes, however, you'll find you cannot depend on them on every given circumstance, especially against stronger bosses as the game
progresses. I imagine mercenaries were implemented by Seta as a way to allow the player to quickly dismiss the overworld battles while going from a place to another
without wasting too much MP or supplies.

Quote from: Aquillion
There's something mildly amusing about having the townsfolk begging me to kill a monster; idly marching up to it, snapping my fingers, and doing my nails while my mercs splatter it all over the wall; then coming back to collect a reward...  also, apparently 100 gold is enough to make these guys my slaves for their entire lives?  It was more amusing in the first game, where it fit in with how you'd expect a prince to actually handle all these things, but it's still amusing here.

Its true they come cheap at first, but if they die later in the game, the rehiring, reequipping and retraining process will show itself to be costly, and not just in the manner
of gold coins.

Quote from: Aquillion
EDIT:  Back on the subject of the translation, I thought the Bakemono thing was a bit weird, too.  And I didn't even notice the space thing until it was mentioned here, but now it feels like everyone is talking - like - this!

These will be addressed in due time, thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Trixar_za on February 03, 2012, 02:07:40 am
I just finished it ;)

Anyway, a few minor notes. I found I could continue with ZSNES (yeah, yeah, I know) after the post-death issue. I used the Call spell and saved my soul, reset the game and restored my saved game. No more corruption ;)

Anyway, I noticed something with the end credits. Not sure if this is yet another ZSNES related bug, but all the text seems too far to the right:
(http://trixarian.net/silva3.png)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Draken on February 03, 2012, 08:36:42 am
I'm pretty sure that's caused by Zsnes ;)
I really wish they'd update that old emulator!!
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on February 03, 2012, 11:50:22 pm
Its Zsnes fault, really. I played through the game
twice on SnesGT, plus I ran tests in problematic
areas both on BSNES and Snes9x 1.52/53,
got no issue whatsoever for the whole game
on any of the the said emulators, so they
are the way to go.

As someone mentioned in another
RHDN board, Zsnes is bottom tier
by today's standards and usually just
a choice to be avoided if possible.
Don't get me wrong, its not a bad
emulator by any means, but it
will inevitably suffer when accuracy
is needed.

Edit: Congrats on finishing the game, Trixar_za,
hopefully you enjoyed playing it as much as we
enjoyed working on it.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Trixar_za on February 06, 2012, 04:28:02 am
Yeah, I do have Snes9x 1.52 which, ironically, I packaged for SliTaz Linux. I just couldn't figure out how to make my save game (not save state) work with Snes9x and I was too lazy to google how. :P

It was pretty good. I don't really play many games all the way through. For example I only finished one Final Fantasy game for the SNES and that would be FF5... with a parody patch applied. Good luck with your future projects :)
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: heratio on February 08, 2012, 09:59:54 pm
I've probably played about 10 hours so far, and no problems using SNES9x other than my stupid controller not working a few times.  I tried plugging my PS3 controller in, but I can't get SNES9x to recognize it.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on February 08, 2012, 11:04:55 pm
That's good to hear, Heratio.
Do keep us posted of further developments
and we hope you enjoy the game.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: DvD on February 09, 2012, 04:16:15 am
Bongo, Wild Bill, Red Soul,

Congrats on getting this one out.   :thumbsup:

I know this will be a good one.  All of your translations are good ones!

I need to take a break from hacking, so I can find some time to play SS1, so I can play this one...
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: FallenAngel2387 on February 09, 2012, 09:37:34 am
As someone mentioned in another
RHDN board, Zsnes is bottom tier
by today's standards and usually just
a choice to be avoided if possible.
Don't get me wrong, its not a bad
emulator by any means, but it
will inevitably suffer when accuracy
is needed.

Huh, didn't realize things had progressed to that point. I always mained 9x with Z as the backup for whatever wouldn't run in 9x.

On topic: Don't know if I'll get around to this one any time soon. Like DvD, I hadn't even gotten through the 1st one yet (and I don't think I care about Minelvaton Saga's style), and I have another game I'm in the middle of, that's probably quick enough, but I'm taking my time with it.

I think that if you make the hobby specifically about beating the games, you'll burn out. In the case of these lengthier adventure games, you need to be able to take your time and take it all in. In the case of retro action games, you need to concern yourself more with getting better at it, than just getting to the end.
Title: Re: Translations: Silva Saga-II English Patch Complete!
Post by: Red Soul on February 09, 2012, 12:35:24 pm
Bongo, Wild Bill, Red Soul,

Congrats on getting this one out.   :thumbsup:

I know this will be a good one.  All of your translations are good ones!

I need to take a break from hacking, so I can find some time to play SS1, so I can play this one...

Thanks DvD!
Yeah I'd recommend playing them in order, at least that's what
I do with games that have multiple installments.

Quote from: FallenAngel2387
Huh, didn't realize things had progressed to that point. I always mained 9x with Z as the backup for whatever wouldn't run in 9x.

Snes9x has grown to be surprisingly competent yes. It may not be blazing fast on pretty much
any system like Zsnes is, but its a much better all around choice anyhow.

Quote from: FallenAngel2387
On topic: Don't know if I'll get around to this one any time soon. Like DvD, I hadn't even gotten through the 1st one yet (and I don't think I care about Minelvaton Saga's style), and I have another game I'm in the middle of, that's probably quick enough, but I'm taking my time with it.

I think that if you make the hobby specifically about beating the games, you'll burn out. In the case of these lengthier adventure games, you need to be able to take your time and take it all in. In the case of retro action games, you need to concern yourself more with getting better at it, than just getting to the end.

I quite agree, and honestly I can't understand people that play games for bragging rights or record breaking, this isn't Asteroids anymore.