Romhacking.net

Romhacking => Personal Projects => Topic started by: TiCo.KH on July 20, 2010, 01:12:50 PM

Poll
Question: Unfortunately I can't found a solution to variable-width font (this is an 8bit system with tiled background)
Option 1: Keep untouched the game UI and truncate the Item and Spell names to 12 character long votes: 4
Option 2: Clip from UI window frame and I can extend names to 14 characters long (sometimes still don't enough) votes: 3
Title: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 20, 2010, 01:12:50 PM
Update!

I try restart/restore this project.
Translation rewiever wanted!


I know it look like I abandoned this project long time ago, but few weeks ago i found this:

https://github.com/dshadoff/SYSCARD_Translatefont

It is a great SysCard patch to support 8x16 and 8x12 ASCII font.

When I successfuly patched 3.0 SysCard image (it should be a headerless version), now is much easier work on PC-Engine CD translation.
Maybe some extra graphic char will be missed because just basic ASCII suported.
I already translated the intro texts, and work on full reverese enginering the first town.

Only stepback I should rework texts again on all dungeons, but now thanks to reverse egineering maybe I can get more spaces to bigger dungeons (mostly towns).

But as you see, I'm still not on native level english, and I use translations from online translator tools. Thankfully, these tools is developed lot in the past 10 years  ;D, but if anybody like to help, review the english text, would be great.
Repointering is not as easy like most of NES and SNES games, mostly small asm code load every pointer, maybe just 20-30% came from pointer tables.

If my english will be crappy, is a bit hard rework all asm part to fix texts.  :-\

Thank you Guys!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi!

I Begin Might and Magic: Book One PC-E translation and I discover lots things.
First time I try reverse enginering font and text system, and look like success. In a last few day I can hack the fonts from 12x12 to 8x12, but kanji font isn't on CD, is in the system card. I need well modded syscard3.pce with good looking 8x12 ASCII chars font.
Anyone have them? (I made one, but it's not look too pretty, I think)

And text string looks well mixed with code, not the easy modify strings lenght. PC-E  8k memory address space is to small, and not easy modify like a SNES segment addressing. Memory banks relocation is looks too difficulty to me, and looks more hard with CD system. Is someone can help, please inform me.


How i said here is the in progress pack of translation:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E6SKIFF5 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E6SKIFF5)

This areas translated: B1, C1-3, D1, E1, Cave North Barrier, Dusk, Erliquin and Cave, Sorigal and Cave, in progress Portsmith.

All translated text is in the torrent in .jce file format, can use with JWPce (JWPce is a freeware japanese word processor). I use these format because easy to rip texts from the game to the ShiftJIS coded file.


Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Piotyr on July 21, 2010, 08:01:21 PM
This is awesome! Keep at it!
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: trumisery on July 22, 2010, 02:28:00 PM
Nice!  Always nice to see more pc engine translations!
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 25, 2010, 05:06:58 PM
I try solve a text space problem and I hope succeed!

I had a idea: if glued in a first byte from shift-jis coding I can doubled the 8x12 text length in original place. I need more hack the syscard.pce and I hope 255 ( minus some controll bytes) chars enough the english text.

http://ticokh.atw.hu/7.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/7.png)
Hmm, maybe work... If I change the input TBL...

http://ticokh.atw.hu/5.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/5.png)
looks better...

http://ticokh.atw.hu/6.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/6.png)

I missed something on the new TBL or syscard hack but if I correct them, maybe the 8k ram not problem anymore.
And need increase the 20 chars line length to 30 chars.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: trumisery on July 26, 2010, 12:34:46 PM
If you need more help on this, you can try looking at:

magicengine.com
pcenginefx.com
http://pcedev.blockos.org/index.php?sid=24a7730418fca48fa5900a3301ef89e1

Hope that helps in some way...
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 31, 2010, 12:57:30 PM
Hi!

I works a lot on this translation in a past days. Found a new problem: When a 8x8 text string is 14+ char long a system put automatic line drop. Some monsters and items names in original game is 14 chars long. The string loader  put line drop after names in some menus, and this doubled the line drop in 14 chars long names.
Like this:
http://ticokh.atw.hu/11.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/11.png)

I cut one char from every 14 chars long names, and it looks like this:
http://ticokh.atw.hu/12.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/12.png)

If I found the routine which put the automatic line drop and I can expand whith 1 char (to 15 chars long) I can chance the names back.



Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: ded302 on July 31, 2010, 02:33:42 PM
If your trying to look for a routine like that, search in a trace log for a loop that outputs characters to the screen via a write port. The code will probably read the item data from a buffer(when item data gets loaded from the program rom, sometimes it gets written to a buffer). Most likely, indexed addressing will be used and the loop counter will be incremented by one and used as the index bit for the instruction that loads the byte. If the item length is 14 look for a compare and branch instruction that terminates the loop at 14.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 31, 2010, 06:35:13 PM
Thanks!

I found one, which is works, but is sad :( this solution ruin the menu window frame. Annoying a bit, but I don't have better idea this time. Anyone have?

Look:
http://ticokh.atw.hu/13.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/13.png)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: kingofcrusher on August 02, 2010, 08:01:19 PM
Are you using Mednafen for debugging? If not you should, it's excellent.

Games sometimes write the block of text to RAM first where it's formatted and then just transfer a whole block to VRAM at once. Usually all you have to do is set a breakpoint on the address of the first letter being written to RAM, then follow the loop. One of the registers will be the counter (usually), so when finishes and returns you can see where it's being loaded from.

Hopefully it's as simple as changing an $0E to an $0F-- I'm stoked about your translation. I tried playing the game once and it was pretty sick.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on August 03, 2010, 04:47:06 AM
Yes I'm use the mednafen, this is the great app for this. Some months ago I try the begin translate this game, and I try the use the ootake for debuging. Ootake is great PC-E emulator but not too usabel for debuging. I almost give up... and some weeks ago I found Mednafen... At now, the full translation to dependent on the free time which I can spending for this.

Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Reiska on August 03, 2010, 05:24:24 AM
Ooh, this looks spiffy.  I played through the Apple and PC versions back in the day, so I'll be all over this one probably.

One of these days I keep meaning to give the NES port a shot for fun, but I invariably get frustrated with the slowness of the combat in it (not to mention the balance being weird compared to the computer versions)...
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Goveynetcom on August 13, 2010, 11:19:20 PM
Haven't played this game in any form, but I am glad to see someone gave some love the PC-Engine CD  :thumbsup:.
I will most likely play this when it gets released.
Also, thank god for mednafen XD.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Validus on August 14, 2010, 12:43:15 AM
I will play this RELIGIOUSLY when released.

I play all PC Engine/TurboGrafx translations to the ultimate end.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: SargeSmash on September 03, 2010, 11:31:34 PM
After obtaining the NES version of this, I was a bit curious to see what else was out there.  This looks like a really spiffy version of the game.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on September 04, 2010, 03:27:45 PM
Hm-mm

I found one hardest thing  this project. If I want correct english battle text, with right word order, I need swap two words (someone "on" someone action -> someone action "on" someone), but buffer loaded in serial. I found two subroutine which loads the words. I swap it. first looks like works,  but if monster die in this turn, the name is a next monster in the list. Gash! Help anybody???
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: trumisery on November 11, 2010, 08:36:21 PM
Just wondering if there are any updates on this translation or if it is yet another pce translation that is dead...
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on November 16, 2010, 04:28:48 AM
Sorry, but I need a lot to learn and need work if I want paid my studies. I hope in exsams session and in the Xmass holyday have some time work on translation. The porject didn't dead, just I have very little time to work on it.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: marurun on December 12, 2010, 02:56:20 AM
The English you've used in your screenshots thus far has been fine, but your posts are just a little rough around the edges. If you need a native English speaker to edit your translation, I'm sure there are a number of people here who would be more than happy to help.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on December 25, 2010, 11:34:33 AM
Huh! I found lots of texts in the tavern tips (with japanese voiceover) wich is not founded every other releases (not in the PC and NES version). I try translate with google translate but I need anybody how can help me, this translation is how good.
Good news: I found not too hard method convert all 12x12 text too ShiftJIS text.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: blindell on January 04, 2011, 08:55:40 PM
Hope this is ongoing.  I am anxious to play it.  :)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 12, 2011, 07:06:38 PM
Oh god! I should  needed a good japanese translator. I work with the google and babylon translate, but if I work alone every maps translation takes a week minimum. The towns and castles 2 or 3 weeks. I translated 5 maps  (55 maps had in the game) and harder things its a found good translation to the lots of additional texts.  (80% texts not pointer based, assambely code load the string directly, but not too hard found this. (Exp. A9xx85yyA9zz85ww  zzxx load to wwyy)


http://ticokh.atw.hu/42.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/42.png)

http://ticokh.atw.hu/29.png (http://ticokh.atw.hu/29.png)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on November 28, 2011, 08:01:01 AM
Hi!

Some guy ask me how the translation on going.

I need a realized if I do the translation only myself it takes too long, because not enough time the translate the text with google and babylon and editing the rom. Plus this translation is in this form is lame because my english is lame, and the game have lots of additional scripts which is missing from other english releases. (And someone complained my previous SNES version wizardry 6 translation because I use only the PC version text in there translation). I released "in progress" translation in Underground Gamer torrent site a weeks ago maybe help found someone good japanese-english translator.
If you wait some hour I can upload one filehost site the this file (with configured mednafen and rom and in progress riped  texts). I know maybe break some forum rules but not too easy make the iso patch, because most emulator works correctly with bin/cue + .wav or .mp3. I don't want convert back to full is to make patch after every inserted sentence. And translation useless without 8x12 font hacked PCE-CD System.rom.

November 29, 2011, 08:45:41 AM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

I add the link to the first post.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on July 26, 2015, 06:42:40 AM
I planing to resurrect my projects (this and Wizardry 6 SNES translation).
I needed to realize translating into good english in not fitting on me. So I worked to extract text from this games.
Here I sharing now the japanese scripts from the game, translating these with help the google Translate will be easy somebody how is expert or native english speaker. And also easy can get the english script from the DOS version of the game. But PC-E version have more clues in the inns, and some other minor changing in the scripts and quests.
If you interested to help the translation pm to me and I will share with you the in-progress ROM (all towns and some of dungeons and outside areas is already translated but I sure it's have tons of error in a text).
If I got a full translation one of the area I easy can put into the ROM in one weekend or less, because I already revers-enginered the needed part of assembly.
I planed the make a tool for this but I wanted something more universal what every translation project can use. (Someting like good old SNESedit with good text encode-decode ability like Kruptar, with in modern desktop application.)

So here is the link for the scripts:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KNyROaMpHyWJy0HBP6jZOcR4kx8k0V6/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KNyROaMpHyWJy0HBP6jZOcR4kx8k0V6/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on May 08, 2020, 07:37:01 AM
I know it look like I abandoned this project long time ago, but few weeks ago i found this:

https://github.com/dshadoff/SYSCARD_Translatefont

It is a great SysCard patch to support 8x16 and 8x12 ASCII font.

When I successfuly patched 3.0 SysCard image (it should be a headerless version), now is much easier work on PC-Engine CD translation.
Maybe some extra graphic char will be missed because just basic ASCII suported.
I already translated the intro texts, and work on full reverese enginering the first town.

Only stepback I should rework texts again on all dungeons, but now thanks to reverse egineering maybe I can get more spaces to bigger dungeons (mostly towns).

But as you see, I'm still not on native level english, and I use translations from online translator tools. Thankfully, these tools is developed lot in the past 10 years  ;D, but if anybody like to help, review the english text, would be great.
Repointering is not as easy like most of NES and SNES games, mostly small asm code load every pointer, maybe just 20-30% came from pointer tables.

If my english will be crappy, is a bit hard rework all asm part to fix texts.  :-\

Thank you Guys!

Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Ponch on June 06, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
This is amazing! Love the PCE and M&M, so I'll be the first in line when this project is released. Thanks for your efforts!
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on August 24, 2020, 09:13:30 AM
Hi!

I can't decide, please vote :)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on October 11, 2021, 06:04:51 AM
55 maps in this game. I hope I start to translate the last one today.
I am sure my translation is not the best but playable in English.
Lots of menu modifications still waiting but the major part is done now.
Also, I found lots of alterations compared to the original game not just fixed characters but some quest modified battle is not that hard plus all Silver and Gold message is gone (it sometimes remained in the code but not used).
I also found traces of the character generation (text data to player race and gender) but maybe the fixed player is decided in middle to development in this port.
Plus would be great to subtitle the intro too. Or dub the whole game to English but this is over my one-person project.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on March 31, 2022, 11:28:00 AM
I know this translation should be released now. I finished the last map months ago, so what I am waiting.

I trying to hack the 11 character limitation in 8x8 texts.
Thanks to my in-development Huc6280 Ghidra processor, and quick python script what is translate VCE palette RAM dump to yy.chr rgb palette file, I found the way how hiragana and katakana compressed to same tile in 4bit 8x8 tilemap.
 
(https://i.imgur.com/WjqndmX.png)(https://i.imgur.com/a2dKqKY.png)

But the biggest challenge still before me. I like to keep asci form to all texts in the game, if possible. I need hack kana loading to process every two pairs 4x8 tile to one 8x8 and need temporary free space in RAM and VRAM to place this temp tiles, plus few bytes free in WRAM to bookkeeping the whole process.

So any PCEngine programming expert in here, please help me. :)
 
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Kallisto on April 01, 2022, 06:41:16 PM
Never thought I see the day this port of MM1 will get translated, its the best graphical version out of the bunch minus the smaller window compared to the others.

HardcoreGaming101 probably would love this to update their article too. Does it still follow the same continuity by the way? I thought I read somewhere the Japanese MM1-3 followed a slightly different path.

The only best version left out there now to translate is MM3 for Sega CD (not the Turbo CD version), there some interesting differences between the two.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Sanedan56 on April 02, 2022, 03:26:08 PM
As far as I've looked, the game is its own story. The game has original characters as the party, some events I've seen so far were changed,
and even the ending is different.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: Magma MK-II on April 02, 2022, 11:26:37 PM
So no Sheltem posing as King Alamar?
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: KingMike on April 03, 2022, 02:04:19 AM
I think 4x8 is an awful, barely legible font size that should be avoided if possible. M, N, H and W look practically identical.
Shame on GameFreak for using that hideous font several generations more than they should have.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: turboxray on April 03, 2022, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: TiCo.KH on March 31, 2022, 11:28:00 AM
I know this translation should be released now. I finished the last map months ago, so what I am waiting.

I trying to hack the 11 character limitation in 8x8 texts.
Thanks to my in-development Huc6280 Ghidra processor, and quick python script what is translate VCE palette RAM dump to yy.chr rgb palette file, I found the way how hiragana and katakana compressed to same tile in 4bit 8x8 tilemap.
 
(https://i.ibb.co/yd4v1zL/MM1-PCE-8x8.png)(https://i.ibb.co/zR40QRY/MM1-PCE-4x8.png)

But the biggest challenge still before me. I like to keep asci form to all texts in the game, if possible. I need hack kana loading to process every two pairs 4x8 tile to one 8x8 and need temporary free space in RAM and VRAM to place this temp tiles, plus few bytes free in WRAM to bookkeeping the whole process.

So any PCEngine programming expert in here, please help me. :)

You mentioned ram, wram, and vram. What are you calling wram?? That's not something the dev scene uses; that's a snes term.. do you mean 8k system ram? Or do you mean CDRAM? Or do you mean BRAM (backup ram)?

If you're looking for guaranteed usable space then I recommend the end of the stack. Games aren't going to go that far down into to the stack. Though that's typically only needed for hucard hacking projects, if can be useful for CD games too (a local area for all hooks in different banks can access without remapping stuff in). Since this is a CD game you have CDRAM - you can take advantage of 'static' default values (and persistent values) AND self-modifying code. If you need address registers (i.e. zero page indirection), just push a few pair of zp values on the stack and use those temporarily. The tricky part is making sure whatever free space you found in CDRAM.. remains free. Sometimes CD games will switch things up as the game progresses. If you can compress the replacement text with a smaller foot print, you can use the free space there for code/variables.

Another thing you could do, is upgrade the game to Arcade Card. If you place most/all the text in the AC ram, then you'll have the original area for your new code/print routine/etc.

I have proposed over the years that we make a new system card that has 512k of ram instead of 192k.. or at least a full 256k of ram (this part of the base unit 64k CD RAM). That way the game wouldn't know to use it, and it's free to use for whatever translations/hacks. We already have such a system card for the Turbo Everdrive and mednafen emulator supports something similar as well.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on April 07, 2022, 05:30:20 AM
Quote from: KingMike on April 03, 2022, 02:04:19 AM
I think 4x8 is an awful, barely legible font size that should be avoided if possible. M, N, H and W look practically identical.
Shame on GameFreak for using that hideous font several generations more than they should have.

Yes I know, but fortunately I need to use them only in a status screen and in a spell names. Maybe in item names too because in backpack view is also breaks the 11 character (12 if I could rewrite the break line logic) barrier. But maybe I can redesign backpack view to two lines/item.

I tried shortened spell names to something close what in an original manual but many looked awful. So I try to use full names from the manual.

I want approximate the game play to original, maybe I could drop all spell names and use numbers instead.  :laugh:
(But this also will be fixed my parallel project, MM1 and MM2 engine support in SCUMMVM.)

In monster names game switched to 18 character wide window and if I remember right no longer monster name in a game.

April 07, 2022, 06:54:19 AM - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)

Quote from: turboxray on April 03, 2022, 04:17:39 PM
You mentioned ram, wram, and vram. What are you calling wram?? That's not something the dev scene uses; that's a snes term.. do you mean 8k system ram? Or do you mean CDRAM? Or do you mean BRAM (backup ram)?

If you're looking for guaranteed usable space then I recommend the end of the stack. Games aren't going to go that far down into to the stack. Though that's typically only needed for hucard hacking projects, if can be useful for CD games too (a local area for all hooks in different banks can access without remapping stuff in). Since this is a CD game you have CDRAM - you can take advantage of 'static' default values (and persistent values) AND self-modifying code. If you need address registers (i.e. zero page indirection), just push a few pair of zp values on the stack and use those temporarily. The tricky part is making sure whatever free space you found in CDRAM.. remains free. Sometimes CD games will switch things up as the game progresses. If you can compress the replacement text with a smaller foot print, you can use the free space there for code/variables.

Thanks is a good idea. I need 32byte for one generated tile, if stack don't go deeper than 67 is will be enough for sure.

MRP2-4 is used 'static' game logic functions and data, but now 8x12 Shift-JIS string duplications unnecessary because same as 8x8 ASCI, I hope I will have space to extra code, with longer spell names too.

Last question is VRAM, I thing this will be hit-and-miss process where I can put the extra tiles.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: LightAcolyte on April 09, 2022, 09:11:11 PM
This is such amazing work and progress on the translation! Thank you!

1. Do you have an update on your game script so that I could go through for you and clean up the English/grammar or help with condensing things down to be said with less characters?  The Google Docs link to the scripts from 2015 no longer works.

2. I may be able to help with spell and item names too across the different MM versions: to clarify, you need them all to be 11 character strings including spaces/dashes/separators, right? I want to make sure that's 11 total characters and that you aren't meaning that it is really 13 such as with a number (1 to 8 ) and then a separator in front of each spell name. If you had those, you don't need a number in front for each spell level's spells (i.e.: like in the NES version there are no spell numbers). I will post right here in the forum for you a re-mapped list of names using the MM series for the spells/items to the best 11 character fits I can think if you want and can confirm that.

3. For the monster names: I'm trying to understand what is exactly the issue and what parameters you need. You need them shorter than 18 characters because they disappear when displayed if you use the full 18 characters, right? If so, how many characters can be safely displayed for monster names in all the menus/display locations so that you do not have disappearing text? I can work on shorter characters for all those if you can confirm.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on April 10, 2022, 05:08:21 AM
I updated the link to quest text. 95% I used these translations what you found here. I made this with online translation services (Systran, DeepL, Jisho), and also my english is far from good, so I will be polite when I get the critics on that :)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KNyROaMpHyWJy0HBP6jZOcR4kx8k0V6/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KNyROaMpHyWJy0HBP6jZOcR4kx8k0V6/view?usp=sharing)

Looks like I need to drop the 4x8 text plan. It's to much overhead, what is over my 8bit programming skill. I found these tiles kept is only in VRAM, it's is overwritten in a CD-Card RAM, so I should menage to load from CD every time when used, or need read back from VRAM with two VDC register. I think any of these makes this text display slow, plus sure I can't implement properly in HuC6280 assembly  ::).

But I learn lot about screen composition in this game (and on PCEngine), I found 3 window layout is used: main, interaction and battle.

(https://i.imgur.com/5Ee69cF.png) (https://i.imgur.com/CC1o9wB.png) (https://i.imgur.com/4mSFP62.png)

So when is possible I try use two lines/entry logic. For that I need much simpler "space" to "break line" logic if I want to keep same strings for 8x8 and 8x12 names. Or revert to separate strings, like in original, but I'm saves a lot space in a main code area on same strings.
Small longest names statistic from original game (MS-DOS, AppleII):
Items: 14
Monsters: 15
Spells: 27 (from the manual)

And the redesign the game windows is an option too. Anyway this status window is ridiculous in the original.

(https://i.imgur.com/sk8p2FX.png)

Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: LightAcolyte on April 10, 2022, 10:37:21 PM
OK, I have the files and have started working on the English for you to get a feel for where things are on these translations. There are five main problems right now with the text as-is: (1) way too many words or too long of words when fewer and/or shorter words would capture it to display in the same character space; (2) incorrect verb tenses; (3) incorrect subject-verb agreement; (4) missing prepositions; and, (5) awkward grammatical structure or capitalization.

To resolve these, I will: (1) re-translate manually anything too verbose or using an exceptionally long word; (2) correct verb tenses for the situation described using the game scripts for the Apple II and NES as references; (3) correct subject-verb agreement for the situation described using the game scripts as mentioned for (2); (4) add prepositions as needed with preference for generic, shorter prepositions to save space except where longer prepositions will clearly change meaning; and, (5) conform grammar and capitalization to expected English standards in each situation from the player perspective.

Following these conventions, I should be able to keep translations at the same character length or less you have now in most cases. Do you have a limit for the respective files as to how much text can fit so I know if there are cases in which I'll need to be more or less aggressive in shortening the number of characters to fit properly? For example, in the "interaction" screenshot you provided showing the man in a leather apron: it appears the character limit for this would be 120 characters with 30 characters per line. If all of the text boxes besides items/spells/monsters need to be 30 characters per line (...possibly in a 2 line set of 60 total characters with the second line always indented by a space if I'm understanding you correctly?) and 120 total characters per text box, I should easily be able to work with that.

Once you let me know this is acceptable for me to proceed, I can re-pack the same way and keep the separate files as given to return to you an updated ZIP package.

As for the names of both items and monsters, if you don't want to modify the UI at all: then, it looks like you've got 12 characters available for both item and monster names. However, looking at the "main" screenshots where "status" is displayed, it is clear that in some cases the original designers already left only a single-wide border in between instead of a double-wide border while always preserving borders all around the outside of the screen. Therefore, if you wanted to extend the UI for monsters and items one tile over to the left to eliminate the double border in the interface there, it would still have a one tile border between it and the main or combat interfaces and yet allow for one additional character space for a 13 character limit while still maintaining the existing designer aesthetics. This would be much easier to conform everything to what you seem to be wanting.

So for items, it looks like you've got 12 or 13 characters to work with and I believe using the Apple II and NES versions of this game and MM2-3 SNES versions of the games as references I can conform all item names to 12 or 13 characters by using the naming conventions of these games. Does that sound acceptable and can you confirm if you'd prefer 12 or 13? Once you've determined what's acceptable, do you have the list of items in the order they appear in the code for this version of the game for me to present back to you? As an aside, some item names already translated may just need some touch up, but are otherwise OK to fit in the 12 or 13 characters (for instance, in the screenshot of item names you have "DRAGONS TOOT" when in the same space "DRAGON TOOTH" would be the preferred description as it is already implied possessive and TOOT is something entirely different in English, while with 13 characters this would be a non-issue beyond there being no apostrophe in "DRAGONS" as "DRAGONS TOOTH" would be displayed).

One simplification for character space in item names that is a common theme in the game would be to make the "+" sign smaller and put it to the top right of the space of that character cell in the font tile character for that sign to eliminate the need for a full extra character space and then also a full space for just a "+" sign. Another simplification to fit everything in even less characters could be to use lower case letters after the first in the item names, and eliminate the extra character space. With both space-saving modifications, "SPLINT MAIL +3" would then become "SplintMail+3" with the lower and upper cases forming an inherent divide in the words and the "+" shifted to the top right and made smaller in the tile inherently inferring a space between the "l" in "Mail" and the "+3" after it. This would prevent having to use abbreviations like "SPLINT ML +3" in such a case or renaming it entirely. Assuming the lower case letters take up slightly less space in each tile than the upper case versions, this would include an inherent space inferred between the "t" and "M" in such a case as well without the need for a full character space.

As for monster names, since we have 12 or 13 characters to work with as well: I think I'd be able to do the same for those. Again, I'd need to know if the same methodology used for items above would be alright with the monster naming conventions for you? In addition, do you have the monster names in the order they appear in code for this version of the game for me to provide back to you in that same order?

For the spell names, I do not see a reference in your screenshots for how long those should be? Can you please clarify what you are dealing with right now in consideration of the spell name character limit you would like to use (i.e.: what the spell selection menus look like in and out of battle)?

In addition, getting back to the status display, it honestly does not look too bad to clean up. This looks pretty much like the mini-menus in the NES version with the same information. I'm not sure time spent re-doing the whole status menu would be worth it versus just fixing the spacing and changing some of the abbreviations.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on April 11, 2022, 02:54:33 AM
Quote from: LightAcolyte on April 10, 2022, 10:37:21 PM
To resolve these, I will: (1) re-translate manually anything too verbose or using an exceptionally long word; (2) correct verb tenses for the situation described using the game scripts for the Apple II and NES as references; (3) correct subject-verb agreement for the situation described using the game scripts as mentioned for (2); (4) add prepositions as needed with preference for generic, shorter prepositions to save space except where longer prepositions will clearly change meaning; and, (5) conform grammar and capitalization to expected English standards in each situation from the player perspective.

Following these conventions, I should be able to keep translations at the same character length or less you have now in most cases. Do you have a limit for the respective files as to how much text can fit so I know if there are cases in which I'll need to be more or less aggressive in shortening the number of characters to fit properly? For example, in the "interaction" screenshot you provided showing the man in a leather apron: it appears the character limit for this would be 120 characters with 30 characters per line. If all of the text boxes besides items/spells/monsters need to be 30 characters per line (...possibly in a 2 line set of 60 total characters with the second line always indented by a space if I'm understanding you correctly?) and 120 total characters per text box, I should easily be able to work with that.

Thanks for your help.

About using the Apple2 and NES as reference. I used this too, but game quest is modified, altered a bit in this version and when I found a difference I tired to keep the PCengine names. An example in original always used going up/down in stairs, but in this game is what is on a picture is a ladder so I needed to use that word. Just keep in mind, text difference is related some this change.
Anyway it's true when I found better newer online translation utilities (google->systran->deepl), same thing could be altered different english text by my mistake too.
But sometimes the original text is used many different form for some simple phrases as 'Thank you' (maybe text mimic dialects).

In a game is auto-breakline logic when reach the max character value in a window, and if is this character is 'space' that will be the first char in a next line. (good example on a screenshot.) In this case I need remove 'space' or put manual break line somewhere else. The break line is also count to max char limit so if this is a 30th character the result will be a empty next line.
The 8x8 char works same, every window have a max char/line value, if this is bigger then a window size, character overwrite the border. And one of my problem 8x8 use same auto breakline logic as 8x12 so if the last char is a breakline this also overwrite the border. I need redesign this because that is the reason why I can use 11 character text only, in a 12char wide window.
But in a 8x8 char window every line have fixed start position so leftover char from previous line will be overwritten. (That's why you can see DRAGONS TOOT on a screenshot.)
These line start position works like a ring buffer in a window, leftover char in a last line will be seen in a first line top of the window.
 
By limitation: text is mixed with code and every map is around 3k max space to own data, but every common data (names, item, common menu texts...)  is on separate space. This is also could be extended to next 2k border (next bank page), but in this case too text is mixed with code so needed massive re-pointering. If I start this project with the my Ghidra processor module the whole process would be much easier and faster. One year ago I noted every branches in a code on paper and rewrite one by one. Now I could do everything into Ghidra UI from the memory dump. :) 
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: LightAcolyte on April 11, 2022, 04:54:11 PM
Yeah, I believe not only graphical elements but also plot elements were changed in this version of the game. I do not intend to change any of these nouns. Instead: phrasing, prepositions, verb tenses and subject-verb agreement I can conform based on the script I have from the other games. For example, "All too suddenly" is a verbose way to say instead, "Abruptly" which would translate the intent and intensity of language by nuance without changing anything about what has been said or altering plot details. By contrast, I'm not going to be changing "ladder" to "stair" or "leader" to "king" as the nouns are conveying the bulk of intent on the plot of the game. I apologize if what I wrote to you was in any way misinterpreted as conforming plot rather than contextual agreement to what I have now in terms of the game script. If you have a source for translation of this game already I could use that as reference. Otherwise, I think we'd need to proceed in this way and review by play-testing the translation in the game that everything makes sense with the graphics and story.

Here's an example of how I'd re-translate something for the Inn at Algary to shorten it from the current translation:
Current Translation:
"If you don't sign into the
guestbook, can't stay here."
My Translation Based on Scripted Context of the Situation (i.e.: Innkeeper is shown and is speaking to you):
"You can't stay until you sign
in our guestbook."


I'm unclear still on how you'd like to proceed for the limit on item names, monster names, spell names and if you want to use two-line 59 character limit text boxes for 118 characters total with a space beginning the next line of each two-line pair or not. I understand if you have not yet had time to fully respond to all that yet, but what I'm gathering is you may not have decided yet what limit you want to commit to at this point?

If so, here's something that may help in that case as an example: I've reviewed some of what would be required to conform item names just using a 12 character limit as an example. If you can allow an additional character in the UI by extending the background of the items and monsters UI panel one to the left (as occurs with the "main" screen when the "status" display is brought up with its similar precedent of only a one border separator), then for 12 characters here is an example of what weapon names might look like that must be changed (weapon names that can be left alone with 12 characters and maintain what I see as acceptable uniformity for that item type are not listed) with my reasoning for translating to the shorter version listed on the right in brackets (usually this series of games keeps the same items as recurring elements by and large which makes this easy to conform to successor game terms):

SHORT SWORD    > SHORTSWORD
BOARD SWORD    > BROADSWORD
SHORT SWORD +1 > SHORTSWORD+1
BROAD SWORD +1 > BROADSWORD+1
BATTLE AXE +1  > BATTLE AXE+1
LONG SWORD +1  > LONG SWORD+1
CLUB OF NOISE  > SONIC CLUB   [MM3 ITEM]
SHORT SWORD +2 > SHORTSWORD+2
BROAD SWORD +2 > BROADSWORD+2
BATTLE AXE +2  > BATTLE AXE+2
LONG SWORD +2  > LONG SWORD+2
DAGGER OF MIND > SAGE DAGGER  [MM2 & MM3 ITEM]
DIAMOND DAGGER > DIAMOND DIRK [SYNONYM]
ELECTRIC SPEAR > DYNA SPEAR   [MM2 PREFIX & MM3 ITEM]
FLAIL OF FEAR  > TERROR FLAIL [MM3 PREFIX]
LUCKY SCIMITAR > LUCKY SABRE  [MM3 ITEM]
MACE OF UNDEAD > UNDEAD MACE  [REMOVE PREPOSITION]
ELECTRIC SWORD > DYNA SWORD   [MM2 PREFIX & MM3 ITEM]
FLAMING SWORD  > FIERY SWORD  [MM2 PREFIX & MM3 ITEM]
SWORD OF MIGHT > MIGHTY SWORD [MM2 PREFIX]
SWORD OF SPEED > SPEEDY SWORD [MM2 ITEM]
ACCURATE SWORD > ACCURATE SWD [MM2 ABBREVIATION]
SWORD OF MAGIC > MAGIC SWORD  [MM2 ITEM]
IMMORTAL SWORD > IMMORTAL SWD [MM2 ABBREVIATION]
AXE PROTECTOR  > AX PROTECTOR [AX VARIANT SPELLING OF AXE]
AXE DESTROYER  > AX DESTROYER [AX VARIANT SPELLING OF AXE]
X!XX!X'S SWORD > X!XX!X'S SWD [MM2 ABBREVIATION]
ADAMANTINE AXE > ADAMANT AXE  [SYNONYM]
ULTIMATE SWORD > ULTIMATE SWD [MM2 ABBREVIATION]
ELEMENT SWORD  > ELEMENT SWD  [MM2 ABBREVIATION]
CROSSBOW LUCK  > LUCKY X-BOW  [MM1 ABBREVIATION & MM3 ITEM]
CROSSBOW SPEED > SPEEDY X-BOW [MM1 ABBREVIATION & MM2 PREFIX]
LIGHTNING BOW  > DYNA BOW     [MM2 PREFIX & MM3 ITEM]
THE MAGIC BOW  > MAGIC BOW    [REMOVE PREPOSITION]
ROBBER'S X-BOW > ROBBER X-BOW [POSSESSIVE IMPLICIT]
ARCHER'S X-BOW > ARCHER X-BOW [POSSESSIVE IMPLICIT]
GREAT HAMMER   > WAR HAMMER   [CORRECTED ENGLISH AS "GREAT HAMMER" IS NOT ACTUALLY AN ENGLISH WORD; ALSO "WAR HAMMER" IS BOTH AN ENGLISH WORD AND A MM2 ITEM]
GREAT HAMMER+1 > WAR HAMMER+1 [AS ABOVE]
GREAT HAMMER+2 > WAR HAMMER+2 [AS ABOVE]
STAFF OF LIGHT > LIGHT STAFF  [REMOVE PREPOSITION]
MINOTAUR'S AXE > MINOTAUR AXE [POSSESSIVE IMPLICIT]
THUNDER HAMMER > DYNA HAMMER  [MM2 PREFIX & MM3 ITEM]
SORCERER STAFF > WIZARD STAFF [MM2 ITEM]
STAFF OF MAGIC > MAGIC STAFF  [REMOVE PREPOSITION]
DEMON'S GLAIVE > DEMON GLAIVE [POSSESSIVE IMPLICIT]
DEVIL'S GLAIVE > DEVIL GLAIVE [POSSESSIVE IMPLICIT]
THE FLAMBERGE  > THE FLOBERGE [FLOBERGE VARIANT SPELLING OF FLAMBERGE]
HOLY FLAMBERGE > SKY FLOBERGE [AS ABOVE PLUS "SKY" IS SYNONYM FOR HEAVEN AS RELATED TO HOLY]
EVIL FLAMBERGE > PIT FLOBERGE [AS ABOVE PLUS "PIT" IS SYNONYM FOR HELL AS RELATED TO EVIL]

So, 12 characters makes all of the weapons work descriptively fairly well in my opinion. This should give you an idea if you see my line of reasoning as to how to shorten names to fit. I could take it down to 11, but not without substantively swapping synonyms (as it is, I only needed to use a synonym without precedent in three cases). One could argue whether or not all instances of "AXE" should be made "AX" or "FLAMBERGE" into "FLOBERGE" for uniformity, but I don't really feel that's necessary as either way is a recognized English spelling of the word, so it's up to you. This is still your project after all. (smile)
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on April 12, 2022, 03:31:10 AM
Thanks for proofreading. It true my english knowledge is far away from what is look like naturally. I used few spellcheck tools in end of the project but this not enough.

I can send you a in-progress package to test text in-game. All quest map is translated just the 8x8 menus and text is needed to fix, but the game is playable.

Now I keep the original item and monster names, and see what I can reach with redesigned windows. By the way, I found all of game arts is missing two columns in game, because of borders. Now I try redesign to make it visible. One columns is will be easy, but for to both I should remove window borders completely or add 8 pixel to whole game screen width. I don't think it's possible, as I know just a 256p or 512p is supported.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: LightAcolyte on April 12, 2022, 03:39:30 PM
I think that would be nice if you could re-design the borders (like how NES or MM2 or MM3 SNES versions had some borderless edges) and expand the overall window at the same time to eliminate extra black border zones. If you want to fit the full 14 or 15 characters, that's pretty how much you'd have to do it. I'm not sure how exactly you'll fit the whole spell names of up to 27 characters without some major re-design work though.

I'd be happy to go through all the in-game text on a play-through to verify the translations and help you out with that if you want to privately message me a link.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: TiCo.KH on April 21, 2022, 07:20:14 PM
I done some screen redesign:

before
(https://i.imgur.com/CC1o9wB.png)(https://i.imgur.com/5Ee69cF.png)
after
(https://i.imgur.com/2AfOKU1.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0mkDH5L.png)

Now whole art is visible.

I revers engineered a lot of screen and string related function. Possible I can change totally how windows placed.
Only restriction the usable free space for data, without complex function calls re-pointer. :)

I also need some better lowercase 8x8 font, I didn't like this much.
Title: Re: Might and Magic: Book One NEC PC-Engine CD Translation
Post by: LightAcolyte on April 22, 2022, 12:14:18 AM
This is looking very good! The default font for lower case letters is not great, but it's legible. It's certainly authentic to include the game's own font though.

It's truly fantastic to offer an even-better-than-original experience with full artwork displayed though!