11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by werewolfslayr925, September 15, 2017, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 16, 2017, 05:13:29 PMDo you prefer questions in this thread or via PM?
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 17, 2017, 12:55:00 PMIf I need anything else, I think there are three spaces after the punctuation. Could I use two of those?
Quote from: Psyklax on September 17, 2017, 03:03:59 PMIf you check the table file, those byte values are already used for other things, so you should avoid them. In fact, just look at the table file and my explanation of it. You'll see that there aren't many things you can use (because 81 to ED are used by my DTE routine, and everything else is taken).
Quote from: Psyklax on September 19, 2017, 02:49:46 PMSo, if you think "[ME] agarró Palo de Lluvia firmamente" sounds bad, the only good option is to hack the item menu. Not impossible, but not easy. I noticed also that the text includes several cases of "thy [INV]", so unless you just ignored that in your translation, you couldn't use articles there anyway.
QuoteI wonder what people usually do when translating English games to Spanish? Have you played any? (I haven't, of course)
QuoteOh, and regarding using the DTE to fit the item names: that's not the problem. There are two space problems you worry about when translating ROMs: SCREEN SPACE and ROM SPACE. The problem with the dialogue is ROM SPACE, which is fixed by compressing the text with DTE. The problem with the menu is SCREEN SPACE, so any amount of compression won't help you, because it just won't fit on the screen (without hacking).
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 20, 2017, 12:47:38 PMI was under the impression that the DTE would scrunch two letters together to make stuff fit better. I imagine diphthongs like "ia", "as", "ll", and "ie" would be pretty common in my script, so wouldn't "lluvia" and "piedras" be scrunched down at least a bit and be able to fit into the inventory screen? Perhaps I'll better understand how my script will work with the DTE once I see it in action?
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 20, 2017, 12:47:38 PMOkay, so that brongs up a question, then. I was under the impression that the DTE would scrunch two letters together to make stuff fit better. I imagine diphthongs like "ia", "as", "ll", and "ie" would be pretty common in my script, so wouldn't "lluvia" and "piedras" be scrunched down at least a bit and be able to fit into the inventory screen? Perhaps I'll better understand how my script will work with the DTE once I see it in action?
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 19, 2017, 01:23:41 PMI have officially run into my first major translation hack problem.[...]The problem is that, grammatically, this line won't work in Spanish as gendered articles would have to be used[...]What would you advise?
Quote from: Psyklax on September 20, 2017, 03:09:43 PMWhat a Dual Tile Encoding routine does is take advantage of all the byte values that WON'T be used by a text routine, and instead taking them to mean two different tiles. These are still stored on screen in the same way, and stored in the VRAM in the same way. It doesn't save screen space. Instead, it saves space inside the ROM itself by needing fewer bytes to write dialogue. For example, the word "cat" would be normally three letters: in ASCII standard it would be 63 61 74 (note: very few games use ASCII standard for the bytes, at least in 8-bit consoles). But if the combination "at" is very common in our script, we could write is as 63 12, for example, using a byte that isn't normally used.Of course, this varies from game to game, and you need some ROM space to not only store your newly-programmed routine, but also the table of two-character combinations. So, in my example, "at" would be combo number $12. For text-heavy RPGs like DW, the space you save through this is well worth it - but it doesn't save you screen space, as I said. You'd have to manually draw new tiles that have more than one letter in them. For example, in my Conan translation, I had tiles which had an apostrophe stuck in the corner, so that I didn't waste a tile on an apostrophe. That saves both screen and ROM space, obviously.Sorry if that was a bit much, I just felt like explaining the whole idea in great detail. Hopefully it will help you understand what I mean by DTE. A note, however: you may be confusing it with Variable Width Font, or VWF, which DOES save screen space (not ROM space) by crunching the letters together. But this is almost impossible to use on the NES, and is only really seen on 16-bit consoles and up. The reason is the way graphics are produced: the tiles have to go into memory, then they have to go through a process where they're crunched together, then THIS has to go to the VRAM to go on screen. The NES simply doesn't have the memory or the layering to do this practically. It's not impossible, just impractical.
Quote from: filler on September 20, 2017, 03:24:21 PMI'm pretty sure what you're talking about here is called "squishy tiles". That's where you edit one of the font graphics to have two characters on it instead of one. From what you've said, there are probably no free tiles in the font left to do this with. DTE is where you represent two font tiles as a single byte instead of two bytes. It means your script is smaller, as in it takes up fewer bytes in the ROM.
Quote from: abw on September 20, 2017, 07:32:02 PMWelcome to the art of translating .In cases like this where the source language takes advantage of linguistic features not present in the destination language, you can also try completely re-wording the translated text to circumvent the problematic features. For example, could you use different translations for "Staff", "Stones", and "Token" that all use the same article (e.g. "la palmeta", "la piedra", and "la prenda")? Could you come up with a sentence that conveys the same meaning without requiring those pesky articles (e.g. "[ME] held the item '[INV]' tightly.")? Could you make some suitably generic text that doesn't rely on "[INV]" (e.g. "[ME] felt that this was not the right place to use that item.")?
Quote from: werewolfslayr925 on September 21, 2017, 03:59:39 PMThis is most likely possible and your suggestions of different vocabulary are simultaneously helpful and—in the case of "palmeta"—hilarious. "Una palmeta" could also mean "a caning" as in beating someone with a cane. I don't think that's the best way to translate the word, but it did lead me to another, much better candidate, "la caña", which literally means a cane and functions perfectly for "staff" in a fantasy setting. I'll have to see about "la prenda". Thanks for the tip/lead :3
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