Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Trials of Mana) Hacks Discussion

[hmsong]

Okay, I found them.  Holy crap, I did not expect to see the living tree in Molebear Highlands.  How did I miss that this entire time?  It's clearly in vanilla.  I wonder how many people who played SD3 noticed that.  Btw, there's a living tree above that room too, but it doesn't have the shiny eyes.

Anyways, the reward is... underwhelming.  Maybe you should up that a bit?

First of all, I cannot change the contents of the chest items to whatever I feel like.  I must choose within what's available, and I put literally everything that was available in the game in the Better Monster patch.  One of such thing was 1 L.  I had to put that somewhere, so I decided to put it there.

Second, I don't think they're underwhelming.  I know it seems like it, but they're not.  Esp the one with living tree (yeah, I noticed the living tree above that room, but it didn't have the shiny eyes, so it seemed like a dead tree, which is why I didn't put anything there).  As for why I don't think they're underwhelming... check again.  And again.

Btw, I tried Lise LL to try out Grand Slam.  Very interesting animation.  Very beautiful.  In any case, I gotta say... it's a little too overpowered, don't you think?  Esp when you consider that the both Duran DD and Lise LL have Power Up, which can power them up even further.  And the fact that Duran DD and Lise LL have the highest possible attack power in the game cements that even further.  And it makes Aura Wave a little underwhelming.

Sorry.  I feel like I'm complaining or something.  I don't mean to speak badly about it.

I welcome all criticism, as long as the conversation is civil and has substance.

As for Grand Slam, you may be right.  And if you used bugfix patch, it can even have saber element to it, which is even more powerful.  Hmm.  I guess the best thing to do is lower its power (instead of Lv3 tech, I'll make it have Lv2 tech power) and mp cost.  Still decent powered skill, but not overpowered.  Thanks for your input.  I'm not going to release the update just yet though, since more ideas may come, and I'd rather include those too.

Of course. I think out of all the hacks I've worked on now your hacks are featured the most in this project. I'm thinking of something I can add to the mix personally and right now nothing is coming to mind as I feel like you have covered most everything. Unrelated I mentioned on Erik London rpg's youtube live stream about improvement rom hacks and how the big youtubers never talk about them such as Chrono Trigger Plus, Final Fantasy 4:Ultima, etc. h
He said he has no interest in them. It kinda sucks all the big youtubers who do RPG's kind of act like vanilla classics are the only versions ever created. When I told him he was missing out on some great improvement and expansion patches my comment suddenly disappeared and he never replied to it. I'm gonna start posting videos on rom hacks and improvement patches on my YouTube as this community deserves to be recognized more than it is.

Typically, live streams are for vanilla, because that's what the audience cares about (and it's the one they're familiar with).  Yes, there are some people who are into hacks, but the streamer has to cater to the majority of his audience.  That's why when they do speed runs or something, they play the vanilla version.

[soul_knight]

Second, I don't think they're underwhelming.  I know it seems like it, but they're not.  Esp the one with living tree (yeah, I noticed the living tree above that room, but it didn't have the shiny eyes, so it seemed like a dead tree, which is why I didn't put anything there).  As for why I don't think they're underwhelming... check again.  And again.

Ohh.  Interesting.  Hmm.  Yeah, the living tree treat may be a bit overpowered at that point in game.  But they're just candies, so it's not too bad.


@praetarius5018

Is Deathjester immune to Anti Magic?  I found the real body, and I used Specter's Eye on him, then I used Assassin Bug's Eye on him, but it got reflected back or something and I lost MP as a result.  Any idea what's going on there?  Yes, I used your bugfix patch, which makes Anti Magic more useful.

[praetarius5018]

I'm not aware of any flag that grants immunity to anti-magic. What could be is that he has a flag that is probably supposed to be "is undead" and then inverts HP/MP steal.

[hmsong]

Is Deathjester immune to Anti Magic?  I found the real body, and I used Specter's Eye on him, then I used Assassin Bug's Eye on him, but it got reflected back or something and I lost MP as a result.  Any idea what's going on there?  Yes, I used your bugfix patch, which makes Anti Magic more useful.

I'm not aware of any flag that grants immunity to anti-magic. What could be is that he has a flag that is probably supposed to be "is undead" and then inverts HP/MP steal.

Wuw.  I did not know that.  Very interesting.  It seems like only Deathjester and Zable-Fahr have this "type".  And they only reverse-drain the leaf element (both magic and saber), but not moon (moon saber drains just fine).  So weird, yet very interesting.

Do you know any type that reverse-drains moon element?

[praetarius5018]

No, but knowing SD3, it is 50/50 that the flag exists and is bugged.

[yugisokubodai]

This one I hacked to walk through obsticles.

[yugisokubodai]

Press B button for no enemies on the field.

no_encounter:
   LDA $7F1CF6
   BIT #$10
   BNE +
   LDA [$70],y
   CMP $05
   JML $C27799
+
   LDA #$FF
   CMP $05
   JML $C27799
org $C27795      //no encounter = press B
   JML no_encounter

[hmsong]

@yugisokubodai

Interesting.  I doubt too many people would want that due to how much of a gamebreaker that is.  But I still appreciate it.  Based on what you created, I assume you have pretty high knowledge in hacking.  I'm sure people would appreciate some cool stuff (I have no idea what that may be).  The biggest issue I have with SD3 is the really slow transition time (between screens, menu, etc).  I wish someone can fix that, but I have a feeling that's impossible, given praetarius5018 didn't create it.

[soul_knight]

First of all, I cannot change the contents of the chest items to whatever I feel like.  I must choose within what's available, and I put literally everything that was available in the game in the Better Monster patch.  One of such thing was 1 L.  I had to put that somewhere, so I decided to put it there.

Actually, you didn't put the Shuriken and Pumpkin Bomb in non-Hawk/Lise routes.  At least not the ones I can find.

[yugisokubodai]

Actually I've got addicted to this game very recently. I already knew it 30 years before, but have played it several months ago. And this one is the best graphic Snes game I ever played.
I have a video analizes how great this graphic in this game is. English subtile is available.

[hmsong]

Actually, you didn't put the Shuriken and Pumpkin Bomb in non-Hawk/Lise routes.  At least not the ones I can find.

Yeah.  I planned on putting them somewhere, but I couldn't find a logical place to put Shuriken chest anywhere.  Well, There's the desert or Deen, but those places really don't have any "non-obvious" areas to put the chest (my goal is to put the chests in non-obvious areas for other adventurers to take).  And then I kinda forgot about them.  I'll think of something and put them somewhere for the next version.  Maybe.

Actually I've got addicted to this game very recently. I already knew it 30 years before, but have played it several months ago. And this one is the best graphic Snes game I ever played.
I have a video analizes how great this graphic in this game is. English subtile is available.

I don't dispute that SD3 has an amazing graphic, but probably because of that graphic, it makes the game very slow.  I much prefer they focused less on the graphic and instead focused more on the gameplay and speed.  But that's just me.


@praetarius5018

Do you know any unused treasures that was in the code but not used?  The only ones I can find are the 5 money chests, and I only found them through sheer luck when I was messing with Mapjester.

[roknight]

Hello i have a question, i want to use 2 patch:
1. less grinding
2. dorian valley gemstone fix.
Which one should i apply first?

[hmsong]

Hello i have a question, i want to use 2 patch:
1. less grinding
2. dorian valley gemstone fix.
Which one should i apply first?

If the document's Applying Notes doesn't say anything regarding the orders, then the order doesn't matter.  But generally, doing it in the spelling order is the way to go, because that's the way I specifically designed it.

To answer your question, the order doesn't matter for those two patches.

[roknight]

If the document's Applying Notes doesn't say anything regarding the orders, then the order doesn't matter.  But generally, doing it in the spelling order is the way to go, because that's the way I specifically designed it.

To answer your question, the order doesn't matter for those two patches.

Thank you!

[hmsong]

Dang, I'm trying to add the item sign to a wall in Byzel, but I'm having a hard time...

[hmsong]

Say, do any of you know how to "move" the exit point to a different part of the map?  For example:



I use Mapjester, but anything will do.

Anyways, as you can see, there are two exit points that are unused (27 and 28), and I want to move them to somewhere on the top left part of the map and make a way for a port -- Hawk used a boat to get to Jad in his intro, and there's no boat anywhere in Sultan, and that bothered me.  If I can just move the exit point to the top left of the map, I may be able to work something out and connect it to a dock (creating a path on this map should be doable, but no point of me even trying if I can't move the exit point).

I tried to mess around with mapjester to see if I can move it, but nothing's working.  If I know which range of addresses have that info (or even know which address bank), then I might be able to find out, but as of right now, I don't know where to start.  Any help will be appreciated.

[soul_knight]

@praetarius5018

I think there's some kind of error with your recent update.  My party is Duran, Angela, and Carlie.  Everyone has their final armor, and Duran has 20 Vit, and Angela has 18 Vit.  But for some reason, Angela has higher Def than Duran by quite a lot.  I figured it might be hmsong's Class Balance patch's fault, but even with vanilla, Angela still had higher Def (8 points).  Something's weird.

[praetarius5018]

Final armor is not just final armor. I think the light side armors have a bit more def than dark side, at least the opposite is true for atk of weapons. And how are they on helms or accessoires? I think Angela's stuff has a bit more base def. That might sum up.

[hmsong]

@praetarius5018

I think there's some kind of error with your recent update.  My party is Duran, Angela, and Carlie.  Everyone has their final armor, and Duran has 20 Vit, and Angela has 18 Vit.  But for some reason, Angela has higher Def than Duran by quite a lot.  I figured it might be hmsong's Class Balance patch's fault, but even with vanilla, Angela still had higher Def (8 points).  Something's weird.

For vanilla, dark side has better weapon/armor.  The darker class you get, the better weapon/armor you had.  Always (I simply changed things so that light side will have better armor).  But I will assume that class shades of Duran and Angela are the same, for the sake of the argument.

As for why Angela had better DEF than Duran, it's because Angela's armor has better DEF stat than Duran, to make up for the difference in VIT.  Notice that in the beginning of the game, Angela has 2 VIT while Duran has 5 VIT, but the DEF difference is only 2 points.  This is true for all armors -- Kevin has the worst armor, and Angela/Carlie have the best armor.  Yeah, I know that makes little sense, but I guess the devs did that to make the DEF stat relatively the same (otherwise, characters like Kevin would be near-impossible to kill, and/or Angela/Carlie would die in just few hits).

In addition, Duran's final classes VIT is 17~21, and Angela's VIT is 14~18.  The armors are apparently designed so that the DEF stats at maximum VIT (and minimum VIT) are very similar to each other, regardless of which character you use.  In your case, Duran had 20 VIT (not maximum) while Angela had 18 VIT (maximum).  That means Angela would have higher DEF, because she maxed out her VIT while Duran did not.  It's just that in vanilla (pre-bugfix), you never noticed, because the DEF had 300 points cap.  But if Duran maxed out his VIT (which is 21), his DEF will surpass Angela, provided that the class shade is the same.

[soul_knight]

Final armor is not just final armor. I think the light side armors have a bit more def than dark side, at least the opposite is true for atk of weapons. And how are they on helms or accessoires? I think Angela's stuff has a bit more base def. That might sum up.

For vanilla, dark side has better weapon/armor.  The darker class you get, the better weapon/armor you had.  Always (I simply changed things so that light side will have better armor).  But I will assume that class shades of Duran and Angela are the same, for the sake of the argument.

As for why Angela had better DEF than Duran, it's because Angela's armor has better DEF stat than Duran, to make up for the difference in VIT.  Notice that in the beginning of the game, Angela has 2 VIT while Duran has 5 VIT, but the DEF difference is only 2 points.  This is true for all armors -- Kevin has the worst armor, and Angela/Carlie have the best armor.  Yeah, I know that makes little sense, but I guess the devs did that to make the DEF stat relatively the same (otherwise, characters like Kevin would be near-impossible to kill, and/or Angela/Carlie would die in just few hits).

In addition, Duran's final classes VIT is 17~21, and Angela's VIT is 14~18.  The armors are apparently designed so that the DEF stats at maximum VIT (and minimum VIT) are very similar to each other, regardless of which character you use.  In your case, Duran had 20 VIT (not maximum) while Angela had 18 VIT (maximum).  That means Angela would have higher DEF, because she maxed out her VIT while Duran did not.  It's just that in vanilla (pre-bugfix), you never noticed, because the DEF had 300 points cap.  But if Duran maxed out his VIT (which is 21), his DEF will surpass Angela, provided that the class shade is the same.

Thanks.