11 March 2016 - Forum Rules
Started by hairy_hen, June 10, 2019, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: hairy_hen on July 25, 2019, 03:26:38 PMThanks! It's great to see it up there after working on it for a long time.This version actually contains 185 bug fixes (!) from a master patch that was compiled not too long ago. Sketch, Evade, Vanish/Doom, and a whole bunch of others I'd never heard of are all included.I think the Gil thing happened because of what order the patches were applied this time. I'll have to go back and check so I can make sure to get it right next time. I was hoping there wouldn't be any need to update again for a while, but I guess it's easy for little things to creep in.Anyway, I'm glad it's out there, and I really hope anyone who plays it will find it worthwhile.
Quote from: Chicken Knife on July 25, 2019, 04:24:48 PMAnd I appreciate you including the vanish/doom bugfix. Some people enjoy having exploits left in but I'm not one of them.
Quote from: hairy_hen on July 25, 2019, 08:47:28 PMGetting the text formatting to look its best is always a good thing, so I'm open to fixing it up some more.I actually did use asterisks to denote coughs and other sound effect words when I was writing the script, but for some reason when I saw how it looked in the actual game, I found I didn't quite like it. I'm not sure why, but I guess it's something about the font that makes it look a bit off to me. It seems okay without them because I think it is understood that the characters are not actually saying them as words. For the spelling of Daryl, Mato indicated that her name in Japanese can be rendered into English any number of different ways, so I just picked the one I thought looked best and used it consistently.I think there was some kind of copy/paste error in the project description when it got moved from Translations and into the Hacks category, so I made a fix for it this morning as soon as I saw it, and also added a mention of bug fixes at the same time. Hopefully that shows up soon. It looks like the submission queue is filling up again, so I might have to wait a bit before making any more updates.@Dzumeister: Thanks for the great review! I wasn't expecting any this soon, but that definitely made my day.
Quote from: Special on July 25, 2019, 05:10:52 PMAnd this affects you how? If you don't want it don't literally cast vanish + doom and exploit it.
Quote from: Dzumeister on July 26, 2019, 01:47:22 AMNo problem! Thank you for all the work you put into this hack!As for sound effects, I think they should always be differentiated from the dialogue with parentheses/asterisks/symbols, even if it is generally understood that the characters aren't actually saying those words. It just keeps things consistent.
QuoteFor the sake of consistency with the Japanese version, spells and items have been renamed to match their modern counterparts
Quote from: Chicken Knife on July 26, 2019, 06:51:12 AMIt effects me by knowing there's a significant bug present in the gameplay. Call it perfectionism or OCD if you will--just as I did above. @Hairy Hen, as you can gather by Special's response, including this will be controversial. In spite of FF6 being easy as pie in general, people like to break the hell out of games.It's funny... For my own script writing I've actually been debating for the last few days what the ideal way is to handle these "sounds" or onomatopoeia in English. I've used asterisks for awhile now but after looking carefully at the professional conventions around this, I think I'm going to switch to parenthesis. **UPDATEI read over your updated description and it brought another question to mind.I'm not sure what this means actually. I'm very curious whether you stayed closer to English conventions with spell / item names or if you went for a stricter equivalency of the Japanese. For instance, Phoenix Tail Feather (or an abbreviated Phoenix Feather) vs the typical English Phoenix Down. Another hotly divisive topic I'm sure.
Quote from: Rodimus Primal on July 26, 2019, 11:20:51 AMWell considering he used TWUE as a base ROM (which should be noted in the description and Read Me BTW), he probably is using the updated canon names for spells and such. So Firaga, Cura, etc. But if you really want to bring this to a direct LoL translation, you probably should rename all the items and such to be closer to Japanese despite what Square currently calls them in English.So Terra, Sabin, and Cyan should be Tina, Mash, and Ceyenne respectively.Phoenix Down should be Phoenix Tail.Crusader to JihadMoogles should be moglies.Katarin should be Catalina. And perhaps you might want to remove ALL of the Woolseyims too to a more direct translation, if you haven't done so already in later revisions. Even though Slattery used some of them, Kitase loved them too (he even said they were better than the Japanese, especially with Kefka) they should be closer to the direct Japanese here. You've probably read my thread recently and everyone has noted which ones everyone here doesn't like including "Son of a Submariner." That should be the straight forward "Argh. Dammit." Two others I don't know if you changed yet or not is when confronted Kefka at the end. "Self-Help book" is a Woolseyism, as is "Monument to non-existence." Suggestions "All this back talk. You people make me sick." and "I'll destroy everything and make a world of death!" The soldier that laughs about fire should have his Beavis and Butt-head like speech reverted to "Burn to death!"But what you do of course, is your own choice.
Quote from: hairy_hen on July 27, 2019, 01:30:07 PM(In case it wasn't clear, I was joking about the item names. I'm okay with the official names, but I do recognize that others consider the exact wording of these things to be quite important, even if it isn't something I get fired up about.)Lines that didn't make sense in the official releases? In the annotated script I documented numerous examples, and I'm still only halfway through making notes on it. I certainly recommend reading it, because the details of the story make a great deal more sense when translated correctly, and in my notes I frequently explain how the internal logic of the story was distorted by previous translations. The problems go way beyond whether Shadow would kill his mother or his best friend, or whether Sabin looks like a bear or a bodybuilder, or whether submarines exist in this world, or whether Imperial soldiers like watching Beavis and Butthead. Most of the problems are discussed by Mato in his video series, and some are additional observations I made. The annotated script can be read here: https://pastebin.com/RyVqkRnYI'll talk about some examples that come to mind. Right from the beginning in the introductory text, the SNES version says that magic ceased to exist after the ancient war, but that isn't true: everyone who survived the war and knew how to use magic went into hiding. Magic still existed, but hidden away from people who wanted to exploit it. Later scenes reiterate the idea the Empire has found a way to create magic power, when in fact all they've done is find where it already existed and harness it with their machines.The scene near the beginning where Locke comes to help Terra escape is heavily mistranslated. The dialog makes it sound like Imperial troops are chasing her, and that Narshe is no match for the Empire, and they have to join the Returners to stay independent. What's really going on is that the Narshe guards are chasing her, and the city of Narshe does have the strength to stand up to the Empire, but the people are too stubbornly independent to want to have anything to do with the Returners. The entirety of the exposition says the exact opposite of what it's supposed to say.During the scene at the Returner base, both the SNES and GBA versions say that magical machines were used during the ancient war. The Japanese script says no such thing, and there nothing in the entire game to indicate that machines ever existed back then. Even the term "Magitek" itself is problematic, because it implies the connection of magic and technology, while the Japanese has no word like that anywhere. Consequently, both official translations end up saying 'Magitek' very frequently to describe magic usage, but the Japanese only ever uses more general terms for magic and rarely indicates a technological connection. It took me a little while to reconcile to this difference, but I ended up removing almost every instance of the term 'Magitek' from the script, and the only ones that remain are those that specifically refer to using magic and technology together.Frequently the problems aren't easy to spot right away because they don't affect the entire scene, but certain lines within a conversation will say the wrong thing and end up skewing what is being talked about in a different direction. One example is when Banon is trying to persuade the Narshe elder to help the Returners. In the SNES version he says, "Our blood will spill because of you," but he's actually supposed to say, "We're asking you to shed blood." The original translation made it sound like he was saying the Returners would die because of the Narshe people, but that is nonsensical and doesn't fit the scenario. He's actually telling them that his request for them to join the Returners is a serious thing to consider, because he's asking them to kill for their cause.Many people probably know about the mistranslated line that changed Setzer's entire character motivation, where the SNES version said the Empire had been good for his business, but he was supposed to say the opposite. What isn't as well known is that there are other examples of this same translation mistake in other places too, where certain NPC's say that their business is going up because the Imperial troops have left the area, but they're really supposed to be saying the Empire had been sustaining their business, and income has dried up once they left. Much of the NPC dialog throughout the game has issues of one kind or another: the entire section on the Imperial continent has a huge number of errors, and very few of the NPC's say what they are supposed to say during this part.The subplot of Locke searching for the Phoenix Magicite to revive Rachel was particularly mangled. There was supposed to be a great deal of foreshadowing about this, but almost none of it survived into the SNES translation and it ends up coming out of nowhere late in the game as a result. Most of the references made by Locke (and NPC's talking about him) to searching for treasure are meant to refer to the Phoenix Magicite specifically, but it ended up just sounding like he wanted to plunder every place he went to get any old treasure.The backstory of the Espers, both as related by Ramuh and in Terra's flashback, contained severe mistranslations which distorted the meaning of what was happening quite heavily. So many details were wrong there that I don't even have time at the moment to get into them, but all of them are covered in the annotated script. Celes' backstory as told by Cid also had a lot of mistakes: what he says about her childhood in Japanese is very different.These are some notable examples off the top of my head, but there are many, many others scattered throughout. Some of them are subtle and some are not. I've spent a lot of time as an editor for a particularly prolific author friend, so over time I developed a keen sense for these kinds of issues with the internal logic of a story. So when I say this version captures the tone of the Japanese script, looking at it from a story editor's point of view is what I mean.Now as to how noticeable these things are while actually playing the game? I'm not sure. For some this stuff may not matter much, if at all, but for others it's a bigger deal. I just found that I couldn't ignore the problems once I'd become aware of them. I'm actually really curious to hear about people's experiences of playing this version, and whether they find that their understanding of the story and sense of connection with the characters is affected in a meaningful way by the differences in how it is written.
Quote from: Chicken Knife on July 27, 2019, 09:03:24 PMI wish Tomato had opted to make namings part of his own efforts--which I'm sure would have made approaching them more appealing to you. But nevertheless, I think that names for items, spells, monsters, even characters are just as important a part of a game's translation as the story itself. They are not arbitrary things but elements that we, both in the past as children and still today as adults, become totally engrossed by.
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