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Author Topic: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?  (Read 317271 times)

thanksgoogle

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #800 on: July 21, 2021, 08:35:40 pm »
which emulator are you using?  I am using a trick to turn on the PPU later and turn it off earlier, but it works properly on my real NES and all emulators I tried

Was using BizHawk. Gonna try finishing World 8 again to see if it was a one-off bug or not.

Looks like another place where the background will need to be modified to add the tree instead of the hill too... I wonder how much left to change backgrounds to mach the original game backgrounds are left?

There are a bunch of small differences with the backgrounds, but most of the major ones have been covered, or at least have the same feel as the originals. I asked about this before and he said it wouldn't be feasible to give every level a different background.

Edit:

Alright, got the bug on video. As a bonus, I also found another bug(?) in which the palette changes to the underground palette at the Bowser fight on 8-4 (in NES color mode). No idea about that.

Video
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 09:16:54 pm by thanksgoogle »

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #801 on: July 21, 2021, 11:11:49 pm »
I'm gonna blame your emulator cause i have no idea on that bug with the weird scrolling going on with the final text.  And the intro scrolling works fine?

The bowser color bug you pointed out was fixed in version 1.2 which is available for download

and yeah the backgrounds are inconsequential and would take up too many bytes, I already did some tricks to get more space.  The only time you notice those differences are when you're looking at screen shots side by side.  The backgrounds are totally different in the NES game, they just loop after a certain amount of time to save on space.  Even the customizations i did with the small plants, clouds, etc and the trees everywhere took a ton of space.  To add custom objects for all backgrounds in terms of level space and adding the features into the engine would be so much work for very little gain

Baggins dude I'm done with the game, just enjoy it man :woot!:

thanksgoogle

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #802 on: July 21, 2021, 11:34:38 pm »
And the intro scrolling works fine?

yup. I'll use a different emulator from now on lol

I forgot to mention the first "underground" bonus area in 6-2 also has the above ground music. Should be easy to fix if the other one is. Also, don't  remember seeing any checkpoints throughout the game. But I just checked the X1 version and there are apparently no checkpoints in the first three levels there either. That's crazy man

Superjustinbros

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #803 on: July 22, 2021, 12:25:04 am »

I know it's done but this part with the background hill leading up to the clock in 8-3 stumped me for a bit, since the movement of the hill's location doesn't really cue you into where you should jump until you try a few tiles to the left.

FUTURA

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #804 on: July 22, 2021, 08:47:36 am »
I've said it before too, it's not possible to create a "faithful" dithered version because X1 uses 8 colors per sprite and NES only 4.  All you can do is make some gimmick version.  And on top of that it will look like crap on real hardware or people using NTSC filters to mimic real hardware.  So there's no point.

Shanem, there shouldn't be any changes to the floaty numbers

Then I'd be more than happy with a gimmick version. After all, you did say you'd release a version for it.

Yeah, gonna put out two patches, one with NES colors, one with X1 colors.  Personally I think the X1 colors & dithering look terrible but apparently people like it
Super Sonic Speed!

TRIFORCE89

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #805 on: July 22, 2021, 12:41:03 pm »
I will never understand this appeal of the dithered look. I understand it on the Sega Genesis and PlayStation, etc. It just isn't a thing on the NES. It doesn't look right and doesn't serve a purpose.

thanksgoogle

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #806 on: July 22, 2021, 01:34:22 pm »
The other problem is that technically there's no "exact" colors on the NES. It depends on which TV or emulator/palette you use. So it's not possible to exactly copy colors how they are on the X1. The previous attempt someone made in one of the old patches looked pretty bad

Also I want to say I am extremely thankful to frantik for all the work he's done on this hack and the effort he put into remaking the backgrounds and other features as close as possible

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #807 on: July 22, 2021, 01:45:43 pm »
I forgot to mention the first "underground" bonus area in 6-2 also has the above ground music. Should be easy to fix if the other one is. Also, don't  remember seeing any checkpoints throughout the game. But I just checked the X1 version and there are apparently no checkpoints in the first three levels there either. That's crazy man

How about the "underground" area in 2-2 (with the "I.S" on the wall at the end)?

and yeah I don't think there are any checkpoints in the X1 game.  I didn't add any


After all, you did say you'd release a version for it.

And then later I said I'm not gonna do it cause it looks like crap.

I started experimenting with the Sharp X1 look and decided to NOT use any of the dithered tiles, they just look too horrible on NES with composite output.



I know it's done but this part with the background hill leading up to the clock in 8-3 stumped me for a bit, since the movement of the hill's location doesn't really cue you into where you should jump until you try a few tiles to the left.

Yeah that is one of the few spots where one could make a good argument for more accurate background tiles.. in the original on that screen the power up is over the center of the hill.  In the 2nd half of the game I do have a few spare tiles I could use, though no promises on this one


Also I want to say I am extremely thankful to frantik for all the work he's done on this hack and the effort he put into remaking the backgrounds and other features as close as possible

 :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 01:51:48 pm by frantik »

Baggins

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #808 on: July 22, 2021, 05:13:11 pm »
Quote
There are a bunch of small differences with the backgrounds, but most of the major ones have been covered, or at least have the same feel as the originals. I asked about this before and he said it wouldn't be feasible to give every level a different background.

Maybe release some of your development information/sourcecode for your work, and let other people expand on your work? MIght be useful for making hacks for Mario 2 Lost Levels too to add in the new content.



Quote
The other problem is that technically there's no "exact" colors on the NES. It depends on which TV or emulator/palette you use. So it's not possible to exactly copy colors how they are on the X1. The previous attempt someone made in one of the old patches looked pretty bad

Also I want to say I am extremely thankful to frantik for all the work he's done on this hack and the effort he put into remaking the backgrounds and other features as close as possible

Ya, and without using some real trickery and special chip/advanced mapper functions, it would be impossible to get dithered colors on the screen like on the original version. It simply uses too many colors in a different way than NES handles colors... I tried to leave links that explained NES method earlier...

Ya there was one patch that tried to do 'similar' look, but if you look closely it dropped a lot of colors.. For example it uses magenta for all the stone work, when it should be bright (red) (NES doesn't have equivalent color, there is a slightly brighter red color, but not sure how it would look), and magenta does make the trees in 4-3 look more like the trees in 4-3 of X1, however, then all the blocks look magenta too when they should be red to show the difference in terrain. But you'll notice that the dithering is missing from the trees which defeats the whole 'wanting to have everything dithered' look.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/07/time-to-feel-old-inside-the-nes-on-its-30th-birthday/2/

Also as I mentioned NES had limits.. to only 3 colors per tile, at a time and only four color combinations at a time... The X1 looks like it could have quite a few more tile color options (seemed like its over 6-8 color tile sets, roughly 3-4 color per tile) but could handle only 8 colors on screen at a time....


Agahnim

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #809 on: July 24, 2021, 01:42:09 am »
i guess this bug cannot be fixed.
1) https://file.fm/f/rxpwpm2ku
2) https://file.fm/f/3n8v23x9g

stuck there forever. i think it happened because i hit a fish and then i catch the pole instantly (without touching the floor). i tried it again but no luck with the fishes: https://file.fm/f/6xygfe3pk

sometimes the elevetor just isn't there: https://file.fm/f/jcr99r9tx

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #810 on: July 24, 2021, 05:17:22 pm »
i guess this bug cannot be fixed.
1) https://file.fm/f/rxpwpm2ku
2) https://file.fm/f/3n8v23x9g

yeah I've seen this in play testing.. In SMB none of the bricks are this low near a star so they never get stuck.  Not really too worried about this one

Quote
stuck there forever. i think it happened because i hit a fish and then i catch the pole instantly (without touching the floor). i tried it again but no luck with the fishes: https://file.fm/f/6xygfe3pk

sounds like some weird combination of factors, sucks it locked up the game though

Quote
sometimes the elevetor just isn't there: https://file.fm/f/jcr99r9tx

yes this is due to sprite slots, there's a lot of sprites in a tiny amount of space.  I actually added some special code to allow that platform to go into a power up sprite slot if there is room to make it appear more often, but sometimes it still will just not appear if you got the star power up for example.  Luckily you can still jump the gap if it doesn't appear

PowerPanda

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #811 on: July 24, 2021, 09:17:05 pm »
I'm really enjoying this, and I found a "bug" that you definitely should not fix. When the wing powerup wears off, you float back down to the ground using "moon physics". If you land on an enemy before touching ground, you can extend those moon physics into your bounce. :beer: You also maintain whatever speed you have going in, so if you're running, you can fly across a good portion of the stage. I can see speedrunners taking advantage of this.

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #812 on: July 24, 2021, 11:17:09 pm »
I'm really enjoying this, and I found a "bug" that you definitely should not fix. When the wing powerup wears off, you float back down to the ground using "moon physics". If you land on an enemy before touching ground, you can extend those moon physics into your bounce. :beer: You also maintain whatever speed you have going in, so if you're running, you can fly across a good portion of the stage. I can see speedrunners taking advantage of this.

Yes I noticed that you can get some awesome bounces off enemies that way  :laugh:  I never actually investigated what is happening there, but it would be cool to find out for making other hacks

Agahnim

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #813 on: July 26, 2021, 11:58:16 am »
i knew there was something wrong with that star :woot!: now it blocks my fireballs

https://file.fm/f/rvxy2ggbn


yeah I've seen this in play testing.. In SMB none of the bricks are this low near a star so they never get stuck.  Not really too worried about this one

the star suppose to change direction every time it collides with blocks. maybe in original smb they didn't program it to change direction when it collides from the top side, but in smb special they did!
https://youtu.be/2nGIyPHdUcM?t=3269
https://youtu.be/txcEMPakkPg?t=1606
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 12:44:52 pm by Agahnim »

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #814 on: July 26, 2021, 01:32:28 pm »
maybe in original smb they didn't program it to change direction when it collides from the top side, but in smb special they did!

Yes this is exactly right.. in SMB the power ups and enemies dont ever check to see if the top collides with the background.  I actually had to move the fighter flies around so they didn't get stuck in the bricks like this.  since this is a hidden power up it's less likely to even be seen so i don't mind leaving it.  to add a check each frame for the top of enemies and power ups would cause a lot of slowdown i think

EDIT:  Just uploaded v1.3 to the queue..

Version 1.3

   * Released 28 July 2021
   
   * Fixed a handful of issues with the Hammer and tried optimize its code
   * Made barrels contrast with background in 8-2   
   * Added a few tiny level fixes
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 03:45:25 pm by frantik »

thanksgoogle

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #815 on: July 28, 2021, 07:40:19 pm »
How about the "underground" area in 2-2 (with the "I.S" on the wall at the end)?

that uses the underground music


frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #816 on: July 28, 2021, 08:13:06 pm »
that uses the underground music

Wow really?!  that seems weird to me.  I may add those changes in the next release.  Ver 1.3 is up now.  Mostly just some minor bug fixes with the hammer when the fireflower is on screen

Vanya

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #817 on: July 28, 2021, 11:22:44 pm »
Heya.
In 1-2 in the sub-level after you go down the pipe, the 10x coin block is in between the last two stone block instead of over the last one.
Was that intentional?

frantik

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #818 on: July 29, 2021, 07:11:58 am »
Heya.
In 1-2 in the sub-level after you go down the pipe, the 10x coin block is in between the last two stone block instead of over the last one.
Was that intentional?

Yes, in SMB engine you can only have 3 objects per row. The coin, plus block, plus coin underneath are three, plus the 10 coin block would be 4.  So I move it over one.  There's a few spots where I had to move things like that

SMB Speedrunner Kosmic played the hack, check out his youtube video here

tymime

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Re: Anyone Interested in Doing "SMB Special" for NES?
« Reply #819 on: July 29, 2021, 10:27:28 am »

Is there a way of reaching this ? block or was Hudson just being weird here?
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