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Author Topic: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins  (Read 22082 times)

Gideon Zhi

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2006, 05:10:22 pm »
One word: precision.

If you can remove something without changing the meaning or introducing confusion, you probably should.

God, yes. I was playing Alundra the other day, and having taken a class on creative writing last semester, I was absolutely appalled at the writing in the game. It was awful! Sure, it had a lot of big words in it, but they were WASTED I tell you, WASTED. There's one part where someone says the following:

"<name>..."
(next window)
"...no longer breathes the foul air of this tainted world." or some crap. I mean, geez! "...is dead." would have had such a stronger impact. It's like punching someone, you know? The reason they teach you to snap your arm back when you punch someone in martial arts is because the energy has to -go- somewhere. If your fist stops and stays connected to the other person's jaw, energy's being spent on your fist :p You want it -all- on the jaw!

Another example from the same game was some kid, Bergus I think. He's a bit of a hothead, kind who loves to get in trouble but isn't particularly bright. He talks about "Oh, how I wish I could have taken the journey into the eternal nothingness instead of [so and so]" and I'm like WTF! A kid would -never- say anything like that.

Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2006, 05:18:22 pm »
I think I remember what you're talking about, D, but I'm not sure. Couldn't find it on their forums but while searching I found this:

Quote from: Sky Render
The argument for localizations is a familiar one. And I certainly agree, a localization does appeal more than a tranlsation does to the open market. But as I've stated before in various places, a fan translation isn't made to sell. It's made to appeal to the people who want the original experience, but don't know enough of the language the game (anime, book, whatever) was originally written in to play/watch/read it in its original form.

That makes absolutely no sense to me what-so-ever... it's supposed to appeal to Japanophiles I guess, you know, ones who want to play a Japanese game but can't read Japanese. They know enough to get all the cultural references but not enough to read the language?

Dais

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2006, 05:42:06 pm »
This isn't even really a legitimate reason. I actually had a similar problem with Gun Hazard - the script, when rebuilt, took up roughly twice as much space as was available in the game. So began a lengthy process of clipping, pruning, rewriting and repolishing; trimming the fat, if you will. The game came out much better for it. Just because 50% of the text is removed doesn't mean that 50% of the content, or 50% of the meaning is removed.

In your opinion it came out better. Personally, I'd kill for that extra 50%. Unfortunately, I'm pretty much incapable of learning a new language at this point.

Secondly, and this is to all of you - has there been any indication that the people who are directly behind this project are planning to insert the retranslated script into the ROM in any fashion? I'm not denying the possibility, or saying that there aren't people asking for it, but I don't see anything that actually indicates they are, you know, doing what you are talking about.

Finally, Alundra had a damn bad translation, but that was due to Working Designs, and also the fact that Alundra had a damn bad plot.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 05:48:08 pm by Dais »
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8794.0.html
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D

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2006, 05:27:03 am »
WARNING! WARNING!
A LOGICAL FALLACY IS APPROACHING!
Finally, Alundra had a damn bad translation, but that was due to Working Designs, and also the fact that Alundra had a damn bad plot.

Yes, a bad translation can be caused by a translator, but a bad translation has nothing to do with plot quality.

If the original plot is weak, and is conveyed by a weakly written script, then a good translation will likewise be weak.

When a game with a shitty script and a half-assed plot magically morphs into one with a well written script and a coherent plot, it is an example of a bad translation. Certainly, it saw writing and editing to a degree the original never did, but it remains a bad translation.

This is why in my Final Fantasy VI retranslation review I said I strongly agree Sky Render's work is a better translation. However, I wouldn't even want to play the game's original script because it reads like something shit out a dog's ass.

Final Fantasy V sports a similarly dead, dry script, and it shows in the RPGe translation. Turning names into characters takes more effort than many game script authors ever want or have time to make.

In many games, the writing skills of the localization team are what has turned one-dimensional names in canned situations into characters in a story.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 06:02:26 am by D »

Dais

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2006, 03:06:34 pm »
You're.....not making much sense. At least, not if I read your post in the conventional, linear manner.
http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8794.0.html
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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2006, 04:12:17 pm »
You're.....not making much sense. At least, not if I read your post in the conventional, linear manner.

It's less complicated than you think.

A good translation of a bad script will lead to a bad script. If the translated script were somehow polished and clear, it would no longer reflect the content of the original script.

Thus, when a script goes from dogshit source to well-polished translation, the translation is actually a bad translation. It may be an awesome, well-written script that does more justice to the game itself than the source itself did, but remains "technically" a bad translation, as it misrepresents the original text.

In such case, I would prefer the "bad" translation.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 04:14:27 pm by D »

MegaManJuno

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2006, 08:39:26 pm »
I understand what you're saying D, and I'd tend to agree with you.  A little embellishment without going overboard (and thus losing the original intent), can go a long way.

Zeality

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2006, 10:32:16 pm »
We're doing this because

a.) We can't wait for RPGOne's team, who excessively suffer from REAL LIFE SYNDROME
b.) We're on a fact finding mission to gain a clearer understand of the Chrono series

This is not a typical translation for the rom hacking community; it's being done because enough facts were obscured and certain screwups made (in addition to text removed) to convince us that there might be some good stuff we're missing. The translation is using entirely original assistants anyway, so it's not like we're depriving "worthier" translation projects of precious talent. If you want more reasons, go to the Retranslation page in the news.

The script can be cleaned up and edited for a new retranslated rom, yes, but I don't want to be the person that does it. I've already committed enough manhours of my life to my site; painstakingly editing and coordinating text for a new hack would break the bank.

Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2006, 10:35:45 pm »
As I said in the thread at Acmlm's, I hope it's worth the time and you find a lot of new information.

Neil

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2006, 06:52:07 am »
We're doing this because

a.) We can't wait for RPGOne's team, who excessively suffer from REAL LIFE SYNDROME
b.) We're on a fact finding mission to gain a clearer understand of the Chrono series

This is not a typical translation for the rom hacking community; it's being done because enough facts were obscured and certain screwups made (in addition to text removed) to convince us that there might be some good stuff we're missing. The translation is using entirely original assistants anyway, so it's not like we're depriving "worthier" translation projects of precious talent. If you want more reasons, go to the Retranslation page in the news.

The script can be cleaned up and edited for a new retranslated rom, yes, but I don't want to be the person that does it. I've already committed enough manhours of my life to my site; painstakingly editing and coordinating text for a new hack would break the bank.

I think you're barking up the wrong forrest, but have a fun go at it.


Who knows, maybe working on a game touched by the master Yuji Hori will get you square boys into some real rpgs. :)


Okay, so that was blatent trolling.. but sersiously, good luck. I personally won't care if you finish or not, but the fact that you do care and that you're motivated enough to do something to see it through deserves some props. So rock on and good luck looking for the holy grail.

Lilinda

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2006, 07:52:31 pm »
WARNING! WARNING!
A LOGICAL FALLACY IS APPROACHING!
Finally, Alundra had a damn bad translation, but that was due to Working Designs, and also the fact that Alundra had a damn bad plot.

Yes, a bad translation can be caused by a translator, but a bad translation has nothing to do with plot quality.

If the original plot is weak, and is conveyed by a weakly written script, then a good translation will likewise be weak.

When a game with a shitty script and a half-assed plot magically morphs into one with a well written script and a coherent plot, it is an example of a bad translation. Certainly, it saw writing and editing to a degree the original never did, but it remains a bad translation.

This is why in my Final Fantasy VI retranslation review I said I strongly agree Sky Render's work is a better translation. However, I wouldn't even want to play the game's original script because it reads like something shit out a dog's ass.

Final Fantasy V sports a similarly dead, dry script, and it shows in the RPGe translation. Turning names into characters takes more effort than many game script authors ever want or have time to make.

In many games, the writing skills of the localization team are what has turned one-dimensional names in canned situations into characters in a story.

Curious, where might I find that review?
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D

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2006, 10:21:57 pm »
Me too. I know for sure I have it on a backup DVD located 8000 miles from where I live, but I lost my local copy in China after I burned a backup of my webpage design stuff, deleted it all, then learned the disc failed cyclic redundancy check.

Lilinda

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2006, 05:57:50 am »
I hope nobody minds this bump, but I managed to find the review D did.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=D+Final+Fantasy+VI+retranslation+review&btnG=Google+Search

sixth or so result. click on the cached link to see it.
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p4ch3c0

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Re: Translations: CTj Retranslation Begins
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2006, 11:11:19 am »
Heh, you actually searched for "D".