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Author Topic: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released  (Read 36425 times)

Kitsune Sniper

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2007, 02:21:53 pm »
Wow, the folks at Eyes on FF were really mean to you guys about this. Kawaii Ryûkishi called it "Stilted Crap". Glad that people here are a little more respectful than that.
... if you take the comments of a guy who calls himself Kawaii seriously, then you need to get off the internet.

I'll reserve my opinion of the game, since I haven't played it. But I will say that if the text is as literal as everyone is saying, then I disagree with the choices the translation team made.
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2007, 03:18:24 pm »
I'd like to know why all these people get so pissed off when someone makes a literal translation? I really don't get it. It's not like this game wasn't already released in English and even if it wasn't I would rather have a literal translation then none at all. Some people seem to take it a little to personally. They act like the translator came to their house and took a shit on their console.  :laugh:

I think I'm going to start ROM Hacking just to see how many people I can piss off. Yeah that's my new goal. :P

/end rant.
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2007, 03:24:33 pm »
I'd like to know why all these people get so pissed off when someone makes a literal translation?

I agree, I thought the whole point of rom hacking was "If you don't like it, change it yourself"
Just take the patched rom, extract the script, edit it, reinsert it and there you go: a translation to your liking.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2007, 03:41:27 pm »
Anyone know what might cause screen flickering and sound screwups? Two people at the Compendium are having this issue. I shipped them my final ROM (assuming they were using crappy interleaved ones), but it hasn't solved the problem.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2007, 03:50:21 pm »
Some people seem to take it a little to personally. They act like the translator came to their house and took a shit on their console.  :laugh:

Actually, to get the comparison right, they took the translator's shit, went home and pushed it into the cartridge. ;)


</ot>

Panzer88

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2007, 05:49:26 pm »
Some people seem to take it a little to personally. They act like the translator came to their house and took a shit on their console.  :laugh:

Actually, to get the comparison right, they took the translator's shit, went home and pushed it into the cartridge. ;)


</ot>

quite true, insulting someone for actually taking inititive and doing something, go figure.
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Kitsune Sniper

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2007, 05:49:52 pm »
I'd like to know why all these people get so pissed off when someone makes a literal translation?

Well, I take offense because I AM one of the few translators in this forum. I went to school for five years, and took some writing courses, and I was the best my class in translation and vocabulary (I sucked at some other subjects so I wasn't at the top of my class grade-wise) - and the first thing they teach us is... DO NOT BE LITERAL. EVER. They whack this into our heads for three semesters, and if it doesn't take, they keep doing it until you get it. The worst translations I've seen and heard were all extremely literal in nature, so I have issues with them.

All translations need to be adapted for the target audience. I don't mean the usual "sama san chan boku sempai okaasan" thing some translations (like visual novels) have, that's usually fine depending on the context. Just look at Persona 3! But phrases and sayings HAVE to be adapted, or you'll get nothing but "WTF?!" all the time.

I know, this is a hobby. Most of the people who do this have no translation / editing training. It still ticks me off. I have nothing against Zeality or the translation team behind it. It's just my biggest peeve.

And that's why I didn't say a thing until you asked me to explain my reasons. :p Sorry.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 05:55:42 pm by Kitsune Sniper »
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Panzer88

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2007, 06:11:20 pm »
yeah, that makes sense but I think the biggest issue here is that while it's being seen and critiqued as a general use translation for just anybody to play, it really isn't intended as that at all (I think). I'm surprised that the team even decided to release it largely and publicly.

at the compendium they totally obsess (no offense intended) about all the details of the plot and time line and storyline and EVERYTHING of the Chrono games. I mean they document every little thing, well when they found out that the original translation maybe let a few things slip, it was intriguing to them. Not that it was HORRIBLE, or no fun to play, or that they wanted to create something superior, but if someone translated all the nitty gritty details then all the English speaking compendium goers could take it apart and make sure they have all their facts straight in the compendium, and document all the connections and tidbits etc.

I think this accomplishes THAT purpose, and I believe that this is what Zeality has been trying to say, that it ISN'T your regular use translation. Just like a emulator that is documenting the hardware as much as possible but is uber slow isn't necessarily meant for gameplay.
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Kitsune Sniper

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2007, 06:27:37 pm »
yeah, that makes sense but I think the biggest issue here is that while it's being seen and critiqued as a general use translation for just anybody to play, it really isn't intended as that at all (I think). I'm surprised that the team even decided to release it largely and publicly.

at the compendium they totally obsess (no offense intended) about all the details of the plot and time line and storyline and EVERYTHING of the Chrono games. I mean they document every little thing, well when they found out that the original translation maybe let a few things slip, it was intriguing to them. Not that it was HORRIBLE, or no fun to play, or that they wanted to create something superior, but if someone translated all the nitty gritty details then all the English speaking compendium goers could take it apart and make sure they have all their facts straight in the compendium, and document all the connections and tidbits etc.

I think this accomplishes THAT purpose, and I believe that this is what Zeality has been trying to say, that it ISN'T your regular use translation. Just like a emulator that is documenting the hardware as much as possible but is uber slow isn't necessarily meant for gameplay.

And that's the problem - this sort of translation is very difficult for a regular person to pick up. At least in manga scanlations, these kinds of things can be explained with a little (or a huge) note in the sidebar. But in a game that's just not possible.
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Snatcher

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2007, 06:30:59 pm »
Anyone know what might cause screen flickering and sound screwups? Two people at the Compendium are having this issue. I shipped them my final ROM (assuming they were using crappy interleaved ones), but it hasn't solved the problem.

I'm about 6 hours into the game and haven't noticed any flickering or sound problems. I'm using a non interleaved ROM with a header. I'm playing it on SNES9X 1.51.
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2007, 06:55:26 pm »
Anyone know what might cause screen flickering and sound screwups? Two people at the Compendium are having this issue. I shipped them my final ROM (assuming they were using crappy interleaved ones), but it hasn't solved the problem.

I'm about 6 hours into the game and haven't noticed any flickering or sound problems. I'm using a non interleaved ROM with a header. I'm playing it on SNES9X 1.51.

Okay. One's using v. 1.337 and the other claims to be using 1.6  :o . This has me totally stumped. If it's their GFX cards, there'd be a problem with all emulation.

Well, a lot of people are still going to play the retranslation just out of the same curiosity that drove us. And it's not *that* bad, I mean...it's going to be somewhat unusual, but your average shotgun fan will still blow through it. So it was really like, well, we might as well promote it. I left that big fat note explaining the goal of the retranslation in the readme, and so far I think it's worked. The Destructoid news post received like 29 comments in a day, only one of which was bad (and someone corrected him with the readme intro).

But I'm not sure where I could fit a note in the game just in case people aren't reading the readme. A simple dialogue string in the Load Screen might work, and I could implement it soon (as I'm going to release the 1.01 version Monday to give enough time for more bug reports).

The exposure it's given the Compendium is really tasty -- to the point that I wish I had another ROM hack to release involving a NEW story. There's a secret minihack that's been stalled at about 60% completion since April, but other than that...Crimson Echoes is seriously dead. The Chrono community's not big enough to sustain development of a full game, and it's not worth it for a small team to sacrifice huge chunks of their lives to do it, either. So I've had to close the casket on that one. The grim "announcement" (it's more like a footnote) will be in the next site update. So I wish there were more to contribute, since not every RPG gets the luxury of an editor like Temporal Flux. At least those following Chrono Crisis will have a chance of playing since they're dividing it up into five installments.

Panzer88

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2007, 07:10:40 pm »
read Chrono Trigger Rebirth

it's a shame about Crimson Echoes, I really liked the demos they released.
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2007, 07:45:31 pm »
I'd like to know why all these people get so pissed off when someone makes a literal translation?

Well, I take offense because I AM one of the few translators in this forum. I went to school for five years, and took some writing courses, and I was the best my class in translation and vocabulary (I sucked at some other subjects so I wasn't at the top of my class grade-wise) - and the first thing they teach us is... DO NOT BE LITERAL. EVER. They whack this into our heads for three semesters, and if it doesn't take, they keep doing it until you get it. The worst translations I've seen and heard were all extremely literal in nature, so I have issues with them.

That's when the script appears like as if the authors had English as a second language, which is one of the original reasons why people bitch about poor translations in the first place.

Mind you, noone questions the effort.. they question the result.
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2007, 07:50:53 pm »
Loved the patch and  the translation, but I honestly really don't think the honorifics fit in this type of setting. You know like "Kun" "Sama", they just don't fit well, especially in Crono's case. When you have a midieval setting and stuff, it's awkward for people to be addressed as "Sama". I just thought the honorifics were weird. Plus honorifics make the dialogue feel unnatural. What I mean by that is in English it would be strange to call someone "Sama" or "Kun" and most English speakers don't even understand the point of them.

We've beaten this to death in at least three other topics. It needs to be left there. Zeality and his crew did a good job to get the script dumped, translated, and inserted. This translation is targeted at a specific audience. It meets that audience's expectations. That does not make it inherently a better or worse approach than any other. This topic will NOT break out in discussion and flames as to whether or not Zeality's approach was a good one or not. This topic is specifically concerned with the end result and any errors that may be present in the final product (like the previously mentioned start screen). Consider this a blanket warning for everyone. Bans may follow.

See that? Particularly the bolded part? I meant it. This kind of crap belongs in any of the multiple other topics on it. Hell, there are two in the Personal Projects forum alone. IT DOES NOT BELONG IN THIS TOPIC.

Since simple words are apparently not enough to make the point, bans must follow. Kitsune, Snatcher, Panzer--that means you.

There's plenty of stuff to talka bout without brinigng up translation philosophy or the need for a retranslation at all. Take the discussion that way.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2007, 08:46:50 pm »
This is exactly why I work on games nobody cares about. I never have to have any of these debates about my projects, or deal with these viscous circle conversations.

You work on Chrono Trigger, you full well know what you're getting into good and bad. And when tampering with Chrono Trigger, there will ALWAYS be the bad, it's just the nature of the beast. ;)

I don't think anyone to date has created a retranslated that everybody likes. You know going into it some people aren't going to like it.

What's the point of this post then? Well, being that the author knows this and the responding public knows this, let's save all the trouble and time by not bothering to make useless conversation. The author has an intended goal and target audience and isn't going to be bothered by the NON target audience voicing their opinion. He isn't going to change it and you won't be included in the target audience. Move on to something else. ;)
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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2007, 01:48:27 am »
Precisely.

This particular effort has, is, and always will be a direct literal translation. It's not meant to be anything except that- which means that anyone who downloads it explicitly knows who it is meant for, and, perhaps more importantly- who it *isn't* meant for. Downloading this and then whining about it being literal is like going to a fancy French restaurant, ordering escargot (with a notice on the menu describing what it is), then complaining about there being snails in it- it makes one a jackass.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2007, 02:00:39 am »
I don't think anyone to date has created a retranslated that everybody likes. You know going into it some people aren't going to like it.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2007, 08:05:41 am »
I'd like to know why all these people get so pissed off when someone makes a literal translation?

I agree, I thought the whole point of rom hacking was "If you don't like it, change it yourself"
Just take the patched rom, extract the script, edit it, reinsert it and there you go: a translation to your liking.

Or just wait until my project's finished. *selfless plug*

I don't think anyone to date has created a retranslated that everybody likes. You know going into it some people aren't going to like it.

Assault Suits Valken ;)

And he's right. But I don't think I'll ever see anyone complain about something Gideon does. =P

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2007, 12:50:55 pm »
Precisely.

This particular effort has, is, and always will be a direct literal translation. It's not meant to be anything except that- which means that anyone who downloads it explicitly knows who it is meant for, and, perhaps more importantly- who it *isn't* meant for. Downloading this and then whining about it being literal is like going to a fancy French restaurant, ordering escargot (with a notice on the menu describing what it is), then complaining about there being snails in it- it makes one a jackass.
I agree and anyone who it isn't met for, simply has to play it like it is. If it's that big of a deal, make your own "unliteral" patch. Yeah, it's not the most fair thing, blah, blah, blah, but life isn't fair.

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Re: Translations: Chrono Trigger Retranslation Patch Released
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2007, 06:17:59 pm »
Precisely.

This particular effort has, is, and always will be a direct literal translation. It's not meant to be anything except that- which means that anyone who downloads it explicitly knows who it is meant for, and, perhaps more importantly- who it *isn't* meant for. Downloading this and then whining about it being literal is like going to a fancy French restaurant, ordering escargot (with a notice on the menu describing what it is), then complaining about there being snails in it- it makes one a jackass.
I agree and anyone who it isn't met for, simply has to play it like it is. If it's that big of a deal, make your own "unliteral" patch. Yeah, it's not the most fair thing, blah, blah, blah, but life isn't fair.

How many times are you going to rehash the same post in the same thread before you get tired of posting it?
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