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Author Topic: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along  (Read 27491 times)

RHDNBot

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Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« on: August 27, 2007, 09:51:41 am »

Update By: Cless

In the last several weeks, this project has made some colossal progress. It started off as just making some refinements to what was already done, but now there’s a lot more than that.

The largest of it all has to be the fact that we can now pretty much fit as much text as we need on a dialogue line. We were previously limited to 16 characters which was really quite annoying. Habilain is responsible for this revolutionary bit of progress.

Klarth was finally motivated to finish the script inserter (at least, the basic functionality). That combined with Habilain’s hack  makes it possible to insert translated scripts and have them appear as intended.

And for me, I implemented my real first assembly level hack ever to fix all the text centering, which I am quite proud of.

The “only” bad news news to report is that the script translator has not returned any emails sent in the last several weeks. It’s worrisome because she helped us complete previous projects before, so had a record of dependability. At least we have a reliable “backup team” working on the script now, as I don’t want to waste anymore time in that front, seeing this technical progress and that this project is now over seven years in the making.

So far, there are only several more smaller ASM hacks and bugfixes left before this begins to look just about perfect all-around. We should be able to handle those within a timely manner. We’re mostly just riding on the script at this point before we can FINALLY release this thing.

We’re also hoping to enlist the help of an English major for the editing process of script revision. I want the characters have defined personalities, voices, and have it all flow naturally. The entire script is roughly around ~600KB.

That all said, the Phantasian Productions homepage has *many* more screens and some other info.

Relevant Link: (http://www.tales-cless.org/)

KaioShin

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 11:24:27 am »
Nice, I wished we'd see much more frontpage news like this. Unfortunately there seems to be the common misconception that only patch releases make it to the frontpage  :'(
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Nightcrawler

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 12:26:34 pm »
He even updated the In Progress entry for the translation as well! Cless gets  two :cookie: :cookie: s!! And that my friends is how to best utilize ROMhacking.net. :)
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Animae

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 01:06:12 pm »
Great news! :thumbsup:

I have followed this translation since 01-02 and it looks as if it is drawing to an end.

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 01:33:28 pm »
I can't wait until this comes out. I <3 TOP. =D

And Kaio, y'know, I just submitted some news about the Demon's Blazon project I started. It didn't have a patch (the other ones that I submitted did, and got accepted) and was denied. So you tell me. =P

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DaMarsMan

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 02:42:50 pm »
Great work cless! I've been waiting years for this. Better beat those other guys to it.  :thumbsup:

THE RACE IS ON

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 07:44:37 pm »
Great work cless! I've been waiting years for this. Better beat those other guys to it.  :thumbsup:

THE RACE IS ON

Although that's not meant to directly compete with us (differing sentiments in translation approach), I can't help but feel that it makes us seem lame as far as technical achievement. They've accomplished what took us five years in what seems to be 1-2 weeks or less. :/

He even updated the In Progress entry for the translation as well! Cless gets  two :cookie: :cookie: s!! And that my friends is how to best utilize ROMhacking.net. :)

I could've sworn I submitted some new screens to replace the previous ones as well. Not sure if they somehow got eaten. I'll just resubmit them.

roushimsx

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 12:40:35 am »
Awesome, I've been looking forward to this one for years. Nice to see some serious headway is being made again. The other project looks snazzy, but I'll probably be sticking with Cless' project regardless (I prefer a good, high quality localization to a straight-forward translation any day of the week). I actually snagged a copy of Tales of Phantasia years ago when I first heard about the project, so it'll be nice to finally put it to good use :)

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 12:46:27 am »
The other project looks snazzy, but I'll probably be sticking with Cless' project regardless (I prefer a good, high quality localization to a straight-forward translation any day of the week).
Wow, you can actually judge a translation only from a few screens? Great! Can I call you Nostradamus? ;)
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Cless

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 01:06:54 am »
Well, seeing the latest update on that blog, I guess my pride is now officially crushed. Seven years of work... for what? :banghead:

The Spoony Hou

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 04:23:19 am »
Great work cless! I've been waiting years for this. Better beat those other guys to it.  :thumbsup:

THE RACE IS ON

Nice! I've been waiting for another group to try to translate this game (and probably complete the translation before Phantasian Productions :P).

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2007, 07:21:12 am »
Awesome, I've been looking forward to this one for years. Nice to see some serious headway is being made again. The other project looks snazzy, but I'll probably be sticking with Cless' project regardless (I prefer a good, high quality localization to a straight-forward translation any day of the week). I actually snagged a copy of Tales of Phantasia years ago when I first heard about the project, so it'll be nice to finally put it to good use :)

I'm going to take a minute here and try to make something clear. It bothers me that people point at Sky Render's translation of FF6 and say it's a literal translation [because it's not]. It bothers me more when people assume that, because he prefers to stick to an original Japanese name[1], people assume he's going to sprinkle -san everywhere and leave stuff romanized just for the hell of it.

That's not what he's about, and that's not what a 'straight translation' should be about. A straight translation should be an uncluttered, concise translation of text from one language to another, without removing references to the original language's culture. If you want a localized game, that's fine. Go play Tales of Phantasia GBA and leave me alone. I'll likely end up playing both versions, simply because different people have different ways of seeing things. There's nothing wrong with that. There should never be anything wrong with that, and I think it's disgusting that people would assume that, because one team is going for a localization that everyone else must therefore be doing a literal translation when they declare that they aren't going to translate every single word ever in the game.

There is such a thing as a high-quality straight translation, and I look forward to seeing firsthand what Cless & co. and Absolute Zero do with Tales of Phantasia.

1: beating around the bush because I dare not mention it directly. <.<

Lashiec

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2007, 01:01:37 pm »
The group which remix the soundtrack to be more SNES-like will get my download :laugh:

Aw, OK, seriously, those screens look great, and I see you got some more helping hands. Congrats!
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roushimsx

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2007, 05:20:10 pm »
There should never be anything wrong with that, and I think it's disgusting that people would assume that, because one team is going for a localization that everyone else must therefore be doing a literal translation when they declare that they aren't going to translate every single word ever in the game.

Straight from the webpage: "Tech names that are written in kanji will not be translated.  They will be romanized.  Why?  I don’t believe that Demon Fang is any better a name than Majinken.  I like the word Ougi more than calling something an ‘Arcane’ ability."

...and that's specifically why I prefer a solid localization to a straight forward translation. I'm more lenient with the MegaTen games simply because of their settings/stories/etc, but beyond that I'll take "Demon Fang" over "Majiken" any day of the week.

Maybe I'm just not animu enough!? Gomen nasai!

(and before anyone here decideds to play that card: no, I wasn't a fan of a bulk of Working Designs' localizations)

Wow, you can actually judge a translation only from a few screens? Great! Can I call you Nostradamus? ;)

From Absolute Zero: "Cless has always taken the path of localization with his work on ToP. Anyone who has read my text guide can tell that my approach is different, with the intention of being an accessible game to English speakers while diverging as little as possible from the original Japanese text."

and then from the opening post: " We’re also hoping to enlist the help of an English major for the editing process of script revision. I want the characters have defined personalities, voices, and have it all flow naturally. "

So yes, I judged that based on the long history of Cless' determination with the project combined with my view that quality localization > non-localization that if I wanted to play just one version of the PS1 game, it'd be the Phantasian Productions release. In a damn heartbeat.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 05:28:35 pm by roushimsx »

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2007, 05:38:34 pm »
I'd judge the final products, not just compare words from two different sites. It's the whole that makes the difference, not just a menu glossary. -_-
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DaMarsMan

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2007, 06:32:58 pm »
I'd judge the final products, not just compare words from two different sites. It's the whole that makes the difference, not just a menu glossary. -_-

True...However, If Absolute does romanji for items, I wont play it. I'm fairly good with japanese and still wouldn't go near any translation that used that. That's like saying I could play a game with spanish items just because I can pronounce the names. Meanwhile, the whole meaning (which is the most important) is lost. I look forward to both and I just hope it doesn't end up that way.

If I want names in japanese, I'll read them in japanese.

Absolute Zero-san hoimi o tanaeta!

Maybe I just don't see the point. I'm not trying to step on any toes here but my opinion is no doubt going to. I didn't even like it when byuu's title screen said daikaijuu monogatari. Just doesn't make any sense to me.


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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2007, 06:40:06 pm »
True...However, If Absolute does romanji for items, I wont play it. I'm fairly good with japanese and still wouldn't go near any translation that used that. That's like saying I could play a game with spanish items just because I can pronounce the names. Meanwhile, the whole meaning (which is the most important) is lost. I look forward to both and I just hope it doesn't end up that way.
Take another look at his blog, and you'll see an in-progress screenshot of an inventory screen. You'll notice that the item names all make sense in English. They are probably still not finalised in any case. As far as I'm aware, the main thing that will be left in romaji is the names of the special techniques, or "ougi", and in that case, the descriptions should help to convey the meaning.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 06:47:32 pm by Soluzar »

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 07:00:12 pm »
It is my sincere hope that my posting here will not cause any sort of problem.  I've tried my best to stay out of things here, which is why I haven't said anything up until now.  But rather than have people speculate on what I will or will not do, I just want to make it clear.  I'm going to give some concrete examples, pulled straight out of my translated documents, so I hope my hacker won't mind that.

Spectacles.  Namco USA changes this to Magic Lens in every recent game.  I'm just going to leave it as Spectacles.  That's what they're called in Japanese.  And you know what?  This is what the description says:  "A mysterious lens that allows you to view the HP, TP, and attribute data of an enemy."  Maybe not magical, but mysterious.  It's still a lens.  And accurate.  I'm going to use Gumi instead of Gel.  Does that offend people?  I don't see what the big deal is either way, that's just what I prefer.

But that's not what you want to know.  Let's get down to things you're worried about.
Nintō Botan
Nintō Ayame
Nintō Kikyō
Nintō Kuroyuri
Nintō Chizakura

Oh man, Japanese names.  But don't panic.  I know you don't know what those words mean.  So let's put them straight into English.
Ninja Blade: Peony
Ninja Blade: Iris
Ninja Blade: Bellflower
Ninja Blade: Black Lily
Ninja Blade: Bloody Sakura (Cherry Blossom)

Are those names meaningful to you?  More than the Japanese?  Because I don't believe they are.  Not only have I removed the cultural references by making them English, I've also not made them any clearer.  So let me show you what I prefer.

Name: Nintō Botan
(Temporary) Description: A female ninja's short sword named after the peony. A blade used by a female ninja from an early age.

Japanese culture? Preserved.  Meaning?  Preserved.  That's what I believe localization is.  And you know who I think agrees with me?

You might want to note that this isn't my picture.  This is your 'solid localization'.

How about attacks?
Name: Majinken
Description: Attack the enemy with a wave a pressure from your sword.

Yes, the name is in Japanese.  But the description isn't.  You can understand what the attack does.  I thought this attitude went out with 1990s localization, but let me speak my mind for just a moment. 

If something has meaning, I will translate it.  But for goodness sake, the Japanese kanji items and tech names are just made to sound cool.  They have no meaning in Japanese, no meaning in English.  Does calling something Demon Fang make it right because it's in English?  That's not the name of the ability.  It's something they made up for the localization.  Am I a bad translator because I don't want to make something up or follow what I consider to be someone else's error?  Demon Fang has no meaning!  It tells you nothing about the attack!  That's what the description is for!  I am not here to do a romanized translation.  If I were doing that, I would leave the game in Japanese and just play it myself.  I'm translating this game.  Where there is meaning, I will express it.  I am not looking to keep the people who play this game in the dark about what things are, but neither am I here to shelter you from Japan.

There's a country in this world called Japan.  Every once in a while they put out games.  Some people like Namco think that we're afraid of that kind of place because they don't speak like us.  They mute their voices (often not replacing them with English), replace their songs with instrumentals, and change things so that they won't leave children crying themselves to sleep.  But I'm here to stand up and tell you that I'm not afraid of Japan, and nor should you be.  When an attack name or item name is just made to sound cool, is it really worse for me to leave it in Japanese then to just make something up?  Because that's what some people seem to be begging for with Namco-style 'localization'.  I could just as easily call Majinken something else, but how is that to any benefit.  Maybe it doesn't sound as cool to the ears of an English-speaking person?  Is that the loss we're talking about here?  Because I promise, no meaning is being lost.  Nothing important is being lost.

And I don't mean to insult Cless or his way of doing things.  Not at all.  I have nothing but respect for him.  But for my project, these are my views and my ways of doing things.  I'm not asking everyone to agree.  That's why I'm glad that Cless is still doing his project.  You now have options.  I will be giving you what I consider to be the perfect translation of ToP and Cless is giving you his.  But don't think that the entire 'translation' you keep referring to should be judged by choices on how to translate things that have no meaning to begin with.

StIoachim

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 07:33:24 pm »
It's nice to see the two projects going on, but I'm heavily biased towards the Phantasian Productions localization, that I'd been following for a long time, I don't remember how much, but I've been a regular reader and occasional poster on three incarnations of their forum.

Anyway, congratulations to all of you, guys, and keep surprising us with things like this!
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Cless

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Re: Translations: Tales of Phantasia PSX, moving right along
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 08:18:09 pm »
I would just like to add that throughhim and I are on peaceful terms. We do not wish to see a war over translation sentiments, or who's patch will be "better." I personally hate drama, and want to avoid it. Yes, I had a meltdown yesterday, but I'm over it already.

Unfortunately, the comparisons are inevitable and so are those who come to "fight" for whatever "side" they believe in.

Personally, before this was revealed to me, I was more worried about comparisons to Dejap's SNES patch.