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Author Topic: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.  (Read 2089138 times)

CM30

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2220 on: September 21, 2015, 02:33:58 pm »
Unfortunately, Super Mario Maker violates several rules in regards to the portrayal of their 8-bit characters on 8-bit hardware, most notably how they'd frequently use pure yellow and ignore the limits on the number of colors a particular sprite is allowed to have (This is even before taking in account various effects that are no way replicable on the older hardware). I don't know if the music violates those kind of rules as well but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. This might be a bit of a difficult request.

Maybe these Amiibo sprites may work better?  They're supposedly edited for NES limitations:

http://dragondeplatino.deviantart.com/art/Super-Mario-Maker-Authentic-Costumes-560453739

The music is debatable, though I have no idea what SMB 1 music limitations and what Mario Maker SMB 1 song versions wouldn't work there.

The effects... well, obviously the music/animation effects like the party stuff and fireworks is right out, but I'm not sure anyone would expect those things to be carried over.

Do the tilesets use too many colours?
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ShadowOne333

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2221 on: September 21, 2015, 04:47:03 pm »
Do the tilesets use too many colours?

Each tileset in NES is limited to 4 colours, and I think one of them is for background/transparency, so you basically have 3 colours per tile.

SCD

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2222 on: September 21, 2015, 10:34:35 pm »
Is it possible to add the SMB1 versions of the SMB3, SMW and NSMB enemies, bosses, background stages and music from Super Mario Maker and add them to the Super Mario Bros. NES ROM by expanding the memory space of the ROM and maybe giving Luigi his own fire palette so he'll have his full GBC color palettes as well?

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2223 on: September 21, 2015, 11:20:22 pm »
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Is it possible to add the SMB1 versions of the SMB3, SMW and NSMB enemies, bosses, background stages and music from Super Mario Maker and add them to the Super Mario Bros. NES ROM by expanding the memory space of the ROM and maybe giving Luigi his own fire palette so he'll have his full GBC color palettes as well?

Due to how strict the limitations are, I'd say you'd be better off trying this with the Super Mario All-Stars version. If you absolutely HAVE to have 8-bit style Mario graphics I suppose you could very easily edit the graphics to LOOK 8-bit. Another bonus there is that you could play it on a good controller instead of one that was designed for people with LEGO hands.
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Vanya

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2224 on: September 22, 2015, 03:13:50 am »
That is why I suggested a SMW hack. It has most of the basic enemies already and there are tons of custom sprites available.
Plus hacking SMW is relatively easy and has tons of documentation, resources, and utilities.
Reducing everything to 8-bit standards would be relatively easy.
And, yes, the SNES pad is way better.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2225 on: September 22, 2015, 03:38:21 am »
Quote
That is why I suggested a SMW hack. It has most of the basic enemies already and there are tons of custom sprites available.
Plus hacking SMW is relatively easy and has tons of documentation, resources, and utilities.
Reducing everything to 8-bit standards would be relatively easy.
And, yes, the SNES pad is way better.

You know, you're right. SMW prob would be a lot better. :D

I would prefer to edit SMBA-S (were I to do a Mario related hack) but then there is no Lunar Magic for it. Plus, it sounds like Super Mario Maker has a lot of cool stuff, so now that that's available I'm not sure why anyone would want to waste time (just a matter of opinion) with ROMs and the limitations and challenges that come with that arena.
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SCD

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2226 on: September 22, 2015, 03:52:58 am »
It's true that the original NES controller is uncomfortable to used, that's why I use the "bone" controller that was made for the Top Loader NES for my NES console. It's pretty much a SNES controller for the NES.

You two have a point, I think it is a better to hack the Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World ROM. This way you can add all the new content from Super Mario Maker to all five games. Including you can make 16-bit versions of all the new content for all five games as well.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 04:21:44 am by SCD »

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2227 on: September 22, 2015, 04:00:15 am »
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It's true that the original NES controller is uncomfortable to used, that's why I used the "bone" controller that was made for the Top Loader NES for my NES console. It's pretty much a SNES controller for the NES.

Funny thing about the dogbones though is that for so long I saw them and thought "wow, I bet that's nice" but unfortunately when I finally got some with my top-loader, playing with them for very long actually hurt my hands (killed my joints). They just weren't big enough for my giant bear claws. In retrospect, I guess the LEGO controllers weren't so bad after all. :P
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CM30

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2228 on: September 22, 2015, 02:20:52 pm »
It's true that the original NES controller is uncomfortable to used, that's why I use the "bone" controller that was made for the Top Loader NES for my NES console. It's pretty much a SNES controller for the NES.

You two have a point, I think it is a better to hack the Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World ROM. This way you can add all the new content from Super Mario Maker to all five games. Including you can make 16-bit versions of all the new content for all five games as well.

Not a bad idea, though I really hope you'd either be great at drawing sprite graphics or have a dedicated team for the purpose.  Because the SMAS versions of Mario Maker sprites are all over at the place at the moment, with only a couple being made by different people at MFGG and SMBX.org. 

And yes, a SMW hack would be pretty easy to implement stuff like this in.  Mario Maker's SMW airship music has already been ported (albeit not perfectly):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCHH7UsFffA

The graphics... that might be my next GFX project, if I return to ripping graphics outside of Mario's Nightmare Quest. Can't be too hard to edit in the new BG objects and airship tileset.
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Vanya

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2229 on: September 22, 2015, 10:45:41 pm »
I'm checking the forums at the FamiTracker page to see if anyone has tackled the new SMB1/3 songs.
I'd really love to have those as .nsf and .nes files.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2230 on: September 22, 2015, 10:56:05 pm »
Quote
I'm checking the forums at the FamiTracker page to see if anyone has tackled the new SMB1/3 songs.
I'd really love to have those as .nsf and .nes files.

Quote
Not a bad idea, though I really hope you'd either be great at drawing sprite graphics or have a dedicated team for the purpose.  Because the SMAS versions of Mario Maker sprites are all over at the place at the moment, with only a couple being made by different people at MFGG and SMBX.org.

And yes, a SMW hack would be pretty easy to implement stuff like this in.  Mario Maker's SMW airship music has already been ported (albeit not perfectly):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCHH7UsFffA

The graphics... that might be my next GFX project, if I return to ripping graphics outside of Mario's Nightmare Quest. Can't be too hard to edit in the new BG objects and airship tileset.

This is great. Nintendo probably wanted to counter hacking with SMM and now hackers are just cannibalizing it's content for hacks. Sweet. :D
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ShadowOne333

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2231 on: September 23, 2015, 12:02:26 am »
Would a Link to the Past hack to make some sort of recreation of AST be too much of a hassle to make?
What things are exclusive to AST that are not in ALTTP?

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2232 on: September 23, 2015, 01:01:12 am »
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Would a Link to the Past hack to make some sort of recreation of AST be too much of a hassle to make?

It really depends on how much you would like to keep. I'd say it's too much. For as much trouble as it would be, I'd almost think it would be easier just to hack AST to be one ROM and function more like ALTTP. Keep in mind though that either route would be an unbelievably massive and complicated work. They are in fact incredibly different.

Also, the game has 8 stone tablets. That ruins the easy option of just doing a graphics edit of the crystals or pendants.

Quote
What things are exclusive to AST that are not in ALTTP?

There were events that took place like rescuing Zelda and the Priest on the overworld while they are being chased/attacked by monsters. The majority of the events in the game relied on the timer.

There was that mole guy that would show up on the overworld in different places at different times. I forget what his purpose was. Maybe he gave you a heart container or something.

There's the rental shops where you can rent equipment like swords and maybe a shovel if I remember correctly. Interesting note, there is a cute graphic for the girl who runs the shop. She was not in ALTTP.

There are a few character graphics that are exclusive. Interesting note, the graphics for Sahasrahla in ALTTP only has a pose for facing forward but AST has at least poses for facing left/right.

AST automatically starts you out with a few items.

AST has a number of mini-games that ALTTP does not. I remember inquiring about transfering some of the mini-games over and I was told something to the effect of "the two games may look similar but they are coded very differently so no, it is not possible to insert the mini-game code from one into the other".

I'm sure there are more differences but those are the ones I can remember right off the top of my head.

Anyway, I hate to be a downer but using ALTTP to recreate AST just aint happening. :(
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Vanya

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2233 on: September 23, 2015, 04:29:04 am »
There are also the weather effects that happen periodically. For example when it's raining your bombs won't work.

On the bright side, most of the new items present in AST have been recreated and there are patches for them available at Zeldix.net. So at least some of the work has already been done.

But yeah, there are a ton of events that would have to be recreated, plus remodeling all the dungeons and mush of the over world, too.
Hell, it might even be easier to edit an emulator source code to run the 4 AST roms exclusively.

SCD

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2234 on: September 23, 2015, 09:42:33 am »
Space Harrier (X68000): A hack that would restore the checkerboard floor for all the levels in this game.

Gunstar Heroes (Sega Genesis): A hack that would add the Mega Life and All Spec modes from the 3DS version to this version.

Is it possible to add the music and sound effect files from the FDS ROMs of Zelda I, Zelda II, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Castlevania II and Doki Doki Panic (Super Mario Bros. 2) to their NES ROM counterparts and get them to work on them?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 09:48:24 pm by SCD »

ShadowOne333

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2235 on: September 23, 2015, 10:24:20 am »
There are also the weather effects that happen periodically. For example when it's raining your bombs won't work.

On the bright side, most of the new items present in AST have been recreated and there are patches for them available at Zeldix.net. So at least some of the work has already been done.

But yeah, there are a ton of events that would have to be recreated, plus remodeling all the dungeons and mush of the over world, too.
Hell, it might even be easier to edit an emulator source code to run the 4 AST roms exclusively.

The events could all be handled by flags in-game.
That's not an issue.

Just something like:
If Dungeon 1 completed -> Enable flag XX
If Flag XX enabled -> Make XX appear.

This could also be a nice workaround for time-only events.
By using flags, you could very well just take your time to do such event without having to worry for a timer countdown... Like a traditional Zelda would (Frog's eyeballs not included).

Vanya

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2236 on: September 23, 2015, 09:35:14 pm »
Yeah I had that thought for some things like the Zelda and Priest rescue sequences, but then how do you handle things that happen randomly?
The weather effects happen from time to time and I think they have a fixed duration, but they can be initiated at any time just like the special effect events like "all enemies are guaranteed to drop only rupees". Personally, I don't see much point in adding in most of the random events except the weather ones since those are just there to give players an advantage because of the limited time of the original game. So simply not including some of the more superfluous events is a good start.

Here's a thought. What if the Day/Night Cycle patch was used, then the weather effects could be tied to the start of each new day? That could make things interesting.

SunGodPortal

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2237 on: September 24, 2015, 12:33:27 am »
Quote
Yeah I had that thought for some things like the Zelda and Priest rescue sequences, but then how do you handle things that happen randomly?
The weather effects happen from time to time and I think they have a fixed duration, but they can be initiated at any time just like the special effect events like "all enemies are guaranteed to drop only rupees". Personally, I don't see much point in adding in most of the random events except the weather ones since those are just there to give players an advantage because of the limited time of the original game. So simply not including some of the more superfluous events is a good start.

Here's a thought. What if the Day/Night Cycle patch was used, then the weather effects could be tied to the start of each new day? That could make things interesting.

Speaking of ALTTP hacks...

Has no one mentioned this? I kept my mouth shut about it because while I did a few of the custom character sprites (a few NPC's) I figured it wasn't my place to announce it. Anyway, it's been a week or so, so...

Oracle of Secrets Demo

Looks like it will be a pretty cool game.
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Midna

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2238 on: September 24, 2015, 08:07:44 am »
A strange idea, but it would be neat to try changing more Bomberman games into Wario Blast games. I know the original NES game had two separate hacks made for it along those lines (Wario Bwast by Googie and Pillage and Plunder on Rice Beach by Krookodile). Not sure how much work it would take to keep Bomberman playable like in the original Game Boy game, though.

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Re: Hack ideas: for those without the skill but with all the ideas.
« Reply #2239 on: September 25, 2015, 09:36:40 pm »
Is it possible to add the music and sound effect files from the FDS ROMs of Zelda I, Zelda II, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Castlevania II and Doki Doki Panic (Super Mario Bros. 2) to their NES ROM counterparts and get them to work on them?

For NES Castlevania II and III, Metroid and Kid Icarus, the localization teams re-composed the tracks entirely. Overall the quality was a mixed bag, with some tracks turning out better and some turning out worse. These are probably your main reference points for "Transferring" the songs of FDS games with those extra sound channels. You are not gonna be able to replicate the proper sound of the extra sound channels (Or at the very least, I've not seen one attempt to replicate a FDS sound purely into a base Famicom/NES sound.) and it would take VERY clever music recomposition to recreate any songs and tricking one's ear into feeling like no audio data was lost.

Zelda II and Doki Doki Panic might be interesting for the fact that their "different" music is still mostly base Famicom/NES sound, but generally people prefer the redone tracks for the localization on both.



I'd almost think it would be easier just to hack AST to be one ROM and function more like ALTTP.

Two big things get in the way of simply combining the AST ROMs into one:
1) Sheer size
2) The episodic structure pretty much enforces each episode to be standalone, which would null any point of combining the ROMs. You can't simply go from Level 2 to Level 3 or from 4 or 5 or from 6 to 7, which is what people would -actually- want from the combined set, even if it's not explicitly voiced out.

I would argue that it'd be easier to hack LttP and simply re-interpret the gameplay so that the game clock and episodic structure are non-factors, and the plot rewritten just enough so that there's no enforced breaks or waits.

Quote
Also, the game has 8 stone tablets. That ruins the easy option of just doing a graphics edit of the crystals or pendants.

Hogwash. That's 8 stone tablets for 8 TOTAL dungeons, compared to LttP's 12. Just edit both the crystals and pendants into tablets. There's no other end-of-dungeon items to get in AST.