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Author Topic: ROM Hacks: Phantasy Star Generation 4: A Relocalization - Final(ish) Patch Released w/ Script Options  (Read 3745 times)

Special

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I'm confused by these patches. On the RHDN page you have listed as the 3 types:

Working Designs
Purist
SMS-Classic+WD
(R.I.P GEN4)

But the patches included in the zip are:

Working Designs
Purist
Purist + JP Text

So is the "Purist + JP Text" patch a typo for "Working Designs" or is it the old "No Joke" version?

GhaleonUnlimited

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I have not played this relocalization, but would still like to give my opinion: I prefer when translators make strong choices and release a single well-rounded patch, rather than make me choose between multiple patches. A single patch that could pass as a high-quality official translation, with no weird or over-the-top alterations to the original script. On top of that, GhaleonUnlimited, you highlighted how time-consuming this project is. Maintaining a single patch would be less work for you, and would probably drive the quality up.

It's not a question of quality, it's just preference.

Basically, if you've played the Lunar games on SEGA CD or even PSX, and you like that WD's localization style, try the WD patch.

If you want closet to the JP script without additional writing, or want a more serious experience, try the Purist.

The WD patch adds a lot of additional NPC lines and Rudy comments, mostly. The main story dialog is almost identical. If you play Purist you won't notice anything missing.

It's literally impossible to please everyone with one patch :) Trust me, I tried, and I wanted to just have 1 patch. I did until a few months ago when I got enough people saying "I like this but I don't recommend it because of added NPC humor."

I love Working Designs, and I'm extremely happy with the quality, but I don't feel I should call it the "Recommended" patch anymore so no one is potentially misled. I think the game lends itself to a "Lunar-lite" feel but not everyone agrees, which is cool.

I'd say just pick the one that sounds good. You can always spend 10 minutes trying the other if you're curious :)

I'm going to post script comparisons, but I just re-edited the Purist and haven't done gotten to do this yet.


June 05, 2020, 05:54:58 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
So at this point, what's the general recommended patches for the OG, non-remake versions of the games? Something like:
  • SMSPower for 1
  • vivify93's Improvement for 2
  • peaches patch for 3
  • This patch for 4 (looks really good BTW)?
I'm sure this has probably been asked before, so I apologize in advance. I know GhaleonUnlimited mentioned some of the above in the second post, but I'm not super familiar with the Phantasy Star fan-scene with regards to recommendations as I'm one of the ones who started this series at PSO.

Yeah, I agree with these. I linked to those versions on my PSIV project page.

I interviewed Maxim about the SMS Power new patch, really cool guy (at my project page, too). The only thing I'm irked about is they did the most exact translation possible, and didn't worry about the other games. So Alisa's last name is "Landeel", towns' names are changed that IMO didn't need to be. Stuff like that. But the SCRIPT is excellent.

Out of the PSII patches, overall I like vivify's best for sure in terms of script and also gameplay.

Peaches has a beta out of their new revision of the PSIII patch, with 2x walking speed! If you want to play it now, join us at the PS Cave discord and you can beta test it. There is a LOT of story cut from the Engish original.

One of my goals with this was to match PSIV with the other games as best as I could. Vivify and I are on the team to update the PS Generation 1 & 2 (Remakes on Playstation 2).

So you'll be able to play PS Gen 1, 2, and then these PSIV patches and everything will "match" finally each with well localized and edited patches. Well that's the plan at least.


June 05, 2020, 05:56:25 pm - (Auto Merged - Double Posts are not allowed before 7 days.)
I'm confused by these patches. On the RHDN page you have listed as the 3 types:

Working Designs
Purist
SMS-Classic+WD
(R.I.P GEN4)

But the patches included in the zip are:

Working Designs
Purist
Purist + JP Text

So is the "Purist + JP Text" patch a typo for "Working Designs" or is it the old "No Joke" version?

Oh, apologies, I didn't realize.

The included IPS names are accurate as to what they contain. The "JP" refers to character names, not a difference in script. It uses all the JP character names (except they liked "Rune" and kept my "Jiam" romanization for Seth).

The written description you mention is old and incorrect. I just was asked to make the JP patch for someone like three days ago, so I decided to include it last-min. I know it's annoying to have all these choices.

Thanks for letting me know -- I edited the descriptions a bit and took out the "JP names" patch in the zip (and I added a note to please contact the author if you have other Proper noun preferences for the patch).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 06:28:41 pm by GhaleonUnlimited »

tc

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I have not played this relocalization, but would still like to give my opinion: I prefer when translators make strong choices and release a single well-rounded patch, rather than make me choose between multiple patches. A single patch that could pass as a high-quality official translation, with no weird or over-the-top alterations to the original script. On top of that, GhaleonUnlimited, you highlighted how time-consuming this project is. Maintaining a single patch would be less work for you, and would probably drive the quality up.

The early stages of this project were kinda approached backwards. It's much easier to WD-ize a script, than try and "fix" a WD script.

Fortunately it seems feedback is being taken very well.

nosynose

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@GhaleonUnlimited
There are no consistency between what you've said and your actual work:
-You said you want people to like PSIV more, but people already like it even without your patches. PSIV is already one of the best Genesis JPRG games. So it's the other way around: you actually want people to like your writing/editing just because it's for PSIV.
-You said that you want people to experience more accurate (re)translation in the introduction of "No Joke" version, but with your heavy editorializing (silly jokes) that deeply rooted even in the "No Joke" version, you have nullified such improved accuracy, if any.
-In the same vein, simply renaming "No Joke" into "Purist" before proper removal of such editorializing is misleading, but it seems to be your intention all along. You never want to remove them.

I am not here to bash your work, but why all these pretensions? So if you want to retain your style and don't want to change anything major, a simple rename will do, like: "Ghaleon's Full Fun Lines" and "Ghaleon's Light Fun Lines" instead of "WD" and "Purist". People will appreciate it more if you refrain from accuracy and fan dedication pretension angles, and the message will also arrive to the correct audience: people who are curious with a personal-flavored funny take of PSIV.

Stifu

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It's not a question of quality, it's just preference.

I think it's definitely a question of quality too, since you missed old dialogue lines because you don't have time to play through everything to double check old texts. Maybe if you had a single version to maintain, you could review more text in a shorter time.

It's literally impossible to please everyone with one patch :) Trust me, I tried, and I wanted to just have 1 patch. I did until a few months ago when I got enough people saying "I like this but I don't recommend it because of added NPC humor."

Then maybe pleasing everyone should not be a goal, and pleasing most people could be enough. That's what I was getting at. To me, it looks like most people don't want the extra jokes.

GhaleonUnlimited

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I think it's definitely a question of quality too, since you missed old dialogue lines because you don't have time to play through everything to double check old texts. Maybe if you had a single version to maintain, you could review more text in a shorter time.

Then maybe pleasing everyone should not be a goal, and pleasing most people could be enough. That's what I was getting at. To me, it looks like most people don't want the extra jokes.

I didn't not have time to play it, I don't want to, because it's not the work I prefer, and I/we are doing all this for fun :) But I'm happy to take feedback and edit it so others might have the best experience. I think it's in a good spot now for a purist, but people playing it and giving feedback is most helpful. All I had to do was cut extra dialog lines I wrote to make the purist one, and change a word here or there.

It's not "most" - it's just like the 5 people who were cool enough to play it and voice their opinion. I considered their position now have they have an option that I hope they'll like better. Way more people expressed appreciation for the original version than complained. We have no idea what the other 3400-odd downloaders thought.

I appreciate all your thoughts on the project and the nature of fan localizations! If you're further curious about my process or decisions, I'm doing a Let's Play and also inviting a few guests to do commentary with.

If you guys are able to try the patch you find most interesting, I'd love to hear your thoughts after getting into it.

I would suggest if you think of a hard "right" and "wrong" to this process, I'd invite you to check out this Twitter thread which I actually came across this morning (unrelated to this thread -- my hobby account just follows professional and fan translators so I can learn more about this stuff). https://twitter.com/jake_j_jung/status/1269099902971244545

"How would you tl 俺は次のあなたになる in the context of someone saying it at the grave of a great man who has recently died?" and just look at all the answers from professionals.

Or take "wakimashita/wakarimasu". It means "I see" or "I understood" literally. But think in English all the ways you might say that, depending on context and the nuance you want to communicate. "Oh...well, OK." "I gotcha." "Yes!" "I see..." "Yes, sir!" are all ways I've seen it translated to best fit the situation and relationship with the characters.

I'm just saying that these are deeper conversations to have than "you did it right" or "you did it wrong". Translation isn't 1-to-1 math, it's mostly subjective and nuanced. A lot of fan translations aim for literal, almost machine-like translation. I'm not going to tell them it's wrong or write a bad review, I'm just like eh, I'd do it different, but they put in the work and time on this that's pretty admirable. We're all different people so we're going to see things differently.

A wrong translation would be making Alys a man or something and calling it "an accurate retranslation", haha, I suppose.

If I sound pretentious then I'm sorry you interpret it that way, haha. Just picture something you've worked on, reserached and considered for 200+ hours and then someone on the Internet is like "you did this wrong" haha. I'm just explaining the process because you guys asked, haha, I don't know how to do that in more objective language. If you can suggest, please do!

WUEywye83274

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Hey GhaleonUnlimited, I have been playing the retranslation, how you PM me your e-mail address so I can send you some feedback?

Special

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You can always just PM him here on these forums, that way he doesn't need to give out his personally info if he doesn't want.

GhaleonUnlimited

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Email is no prob! I actually included my email in the readme.

It's hatalawriting at gmail dot com

Looking forward to what you've got -- thanks very much!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 12:38:41 pm by GhaleonUnlimited »